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678685 Posts in 27433 Topics by 4045 Members - Latest Member: reecemorgan March 30, 2023, 05:23:52 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's Bass Playing on: December 25, 2022, 02:57:30 PM
Sorry to bring up this old thread but I don't think this would need no new one:

Currently I'm very interested in playing bass and therefor wondered about Brian's playing. One question that comes up is if Brian was the only bass player on the songs he played during the late 70s live shows. I watched a couple of videos but couldn't see anyone else on bass for those songs. I understand that I - as others probably do as well - underestimate late 70s Brian becaus of his condition. Still, I wonder if he had that much practice and rehearsal for carrying the bass duties during that time.

Another general question I have is if we know if Brian had an understanding of how the bass works so that he could actually "play" the instrument or did he just have Carl show him the lines for each song and kept it to that?

Not sure about the second point but Ed Carter was almost certainly covering bass for Brian, whose playing and behaviour could be described as quite erratic during this period.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Here She Comes - Most popular song on CATP on: December 08, 2022, 03:28:01 PM
While HSC slaps pretty hard it can definitely be considered a deep cut. Has it been featured prominently in some media or is that purely organic popularity?
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Searching for recent Al interview on: December 07, 2022, 04:42:53 PM
Your mantra must've took you a-way.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sail On Sailor box set on: December 05, 2022, 12:41:03 PM
Can we also acknowledge, thanks to the a capella Marcella, that it WAS Brian in the tag singing the high-ish “Marcella heyyyy” and NOT Jack (who did a small “Hey Marcella” in a lower voice while Brian was singing)?

2:39 is Brian, Jack comes in at 2:42

*drops mic*

Brian's part was completely absent from the original mix though, sadly. It is Carl singing "Marcella hey" on an Eb while Jack harmonizes "hey Marcella" beneath - the console strip even marks "Carl and Jack" for that track. Brian's over on the right soon after singing a squeaky little "ooh, I need ya, deh-deh" on G and improvising other lines, and doubling his elfish "deh-deh" on another track later. Exactly the kind of thing he described to Howie where he just plugged in an extra part on his own after the others had been in. We're blessed with a lot of new Brian elf voice moments on this release.

This is one song where I think the new mixes really bring out the 'Beach Boysness' that it was missing - the pinball machine vibes in the chorus, horns, growly edge to the Moog bass, Wurli proto-Bread riff, more audible pounding piano, and having Brian's voice on the end add a ton of life to the track. Hearing all this, it sounds as if Carl consciously wanted to veer away from the eccentric ideas to more conventional rock territory in the mixdown, but the arrangement just wasn't built to support that kind of thing with enough oomf. It's better off being spooky and weird.

I think you highlight one of my main issues with CATP and Holland as albums and that's their "inferior" mixing. This set has proved that there was so much going on - so many ideas and interesting use of instruments and vocals that really would bring the songs more to life than in their released format.

I personally think Carl was being conservative with the mixing and wanted to be conventional because that's the image he wanted to convey of Beach Boys. No longer the teeny 60s band of public perception but a serious rock band making serious music more in line with attitudes of the early 70s. He was desperately trying to elevate them from being "The Beach Boys" TM but maybe he went to far because those quirky, spooky and weird things are what makes the Beach Boys music so unique, timeless and endearing.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sail On Sailor box set on: December 05, 2022, 05:04:59 AM
What I love about helping compile and create these sets is that we can take this music out of time, separate it from the concept of the album and reposition it into the ERA. "We" don't necessarily need it -- but the new converts need and use it for context. To many, this is how they're being introduced to this music -- Feel Flows did that perfectly. Now, maybe some new/younger fans can't tell the difference these days between what's Sunflower and what's Surf's Up -- but is that the WORST thing? Them hearing it and sharing it and discussing it is the BEST thing.

This is all an outgrowth of the influx of new "blood" from the SMiLE fan base (huge tip of the hat to Darian -- we're really where we're at today because of him and Leaf.) 18 years on, these sets give us a chance to reposition the camera in a way that -- I feel -- illuminates some tracks in a more direct and succinct way. I was insistent early on that the Dennis tracks from CATP should be stripped down to their bare essence, for the basic reason that I'm pretty confident that they'll get TV and film placements with the more natural mix.

That's how this stuff lives on and grows beyond us loving it and passing it along single file to friends and family. I think the fact that this stuff was NOT played in rotation next to "China Grove" and Skynyrd will ultimately be its saving grace. I think this stuff is poised to be devoured NOW.

That said, would've loved to have fit the POOPS version of "Sea Cruise" on to this one. . .

Very well written Howie!

These sets have greatly enlarged Dennis' stature as a musician and an artist. What an incredible output he had from 69 onwards. All these sets from I Can Hear Music, through Feel Flows and now with Sail On Sailor are brimming with his creative talent. Just having the instrumental for Steamboat highlights his highly perceptive instinct for intricate and unconventional melodies. One begins to wonder if the Beach Boys as a musical outlet limited him because it seems less than 1/3 of what he wrote and produced made it to the record buying audiences back then. A great shame in some ways but incredible to have this material presented in such a fine set as Sail On Sailor. Absolutely gobsmacked by this release!!
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sail On Sailor box set on: December 04, 2022, 02:13:30 PM
Steamboat instrumental. Tears. Tears.

Amazing right??

I always felt Steamboat was one of the strongest tracks on the album for its unique misty, moody driving beat. This instrumental just shows the richness in the details that Dennis (and I guess Carl?) put into it. Great, great track!
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sail On Sailor box set on: December 02, 2022, 04:41:04 AM
Pretty huge error, but "Marcella - Live At Carnegie Hall" is actually a repeat of You Need A Mess of Help. How did this not get quality checked? Also saw a typo somwhere.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Interview 1977 at Brother Studios on: November 15, 2022, 03:05:45 AM
The man had such great charisma and charm - not to mention his talent. A real shame he lost control over his life and died the way he did. He drowned long before he fell in the water that last day.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sail On Sailor box set on: November 15, 2022, 01:53:54 AM
3 days left Banana
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Art and Portraits - Generated By AI Algorithms on: October 13, 2022, 03:51:29 PM

Mike Love:

Hyper rare NFT.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike's Revealing Interview on: September 05, 2022, 10:30:51 AM
Damn what a sad individual.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: ALL STEREO Heroes & Villains Cantina Version??? on: September 02, 2022, 07:38:25 AM
Sounds great!

BTW, something I've always wondered ... whose voice is it who says, "You're under arrest"?

Almost certain that's Hal Blaine, correct me if I'm mistaken.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Uncut - the Beach Boys edition on: June 26, 2022, 09:39:37 AM
Something is seriously wrong with Mike Love

Anyway, I must pick this up ASAP

A very bitter man indeed.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced on: May 10, 2022, 12:13:10 PM
There are some pretty clear reasons we’d never see SIP tracks on such a set, and I don’t think it needs those tracks.

I think at this stage, given the landscape of how people who this set targets tend to listen to stuff, it’s not useful to try to go strictly chronological, or to be beholden to making sure every album or lead single or whatever is included. That’s how you end up with “Peggy Sue” on “Greatest Hits Vol. 3: Best of the Brother Years.”

Nobody needs “Stars and Stripes” tracks on this. That’s like the 27th rung of tracks hardcore fans collect. (And I’m not even sure BRI has ownership of those tracks; it might still be held by whatever entity holds all of the stuff from that “River North” label or whatever it was).

Obviously, such sets never have the precise set of tracks any one person would pick. But even if we get down to saying, “Okay, let’s ditch “Pom Pom Playgirl” for something”, I could think of a hundred tracks before I got down to S&S or SIP, or most of “Still Cruisin’” for that matter, and I say that as a fan who bows to nobody in my enjoyment of a lot of weird, deepcut, obscure era stuff. Like, I’d really like a multi-disc deluxe set of “Keepin’ the Summer Alive.” But I also know objectively that younger, newer fans tracking this stuff on Spotify aren’t going to be excited by an alternate take of “Oh, Darlin’”, just like they’re not going to be into SIP stuff (which at this stage with that same drum sample running over and over sounds more dated than the BB ’85 album), or the truly awful “Stars and Stripes.” If they want to pull those great backing vocals off the S&S version of “Caroline, No” and sync it to a good Carl lead vocal or something, I’d love to see that. Anything else, I think S&S can be kept as far away from any compilation as possible.

Agreed.  In all honesty though I wouldn't mind some kind of compilation covering or at least including stuff from the 80's/90's era.  As maligned as these decades were, there's still some "not bad" content that has been out of print.  Guilty pleasures such as the stomp-like beat of "Rock & Roll To The Rescue" to other tracks like "Chasin' The Sky", "Happy Endings", "Crocodile Rock" or even the slightly cringey "Problem Child" have been out in the ether for decades.  Even if these songs aren't exactly remarkable it would still be nice to have them if for only completionist's sake.  Maybe by the time Still Cruisin' hits a significant anniversary they can put out a proper album with all these lost tracks in tow.

Those are all awful though and don't belong on any compilation. If anything the few decent releases they had like Somewhere Near Japan should be brought forward as the rare highlights in their otherwise abysmal later catalogue.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Fading Love Song on: March 14, 2022, 05:58:11 AM

The Beach Boys - Fading Love Song (Don Goldberg) Unreleased

There seems to be very little information about this song and couldnt find anything about it on the Bellagio 10452 site. Do we have any evidence of involvement from members of the group in the recording?
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: March 08, 2022, 11:42:20 AM
Silly question perhaps, but Dennis Wilson isn't listed as having been singing on any of the KTSA tracks, yet I believe his distinctive wail is heard on Santa Ana Winds at 2:37 in the coda as Carl is singing his line (you hear it towards the end). Could it be that some vocals fragments of his remained in the mix from the previous 1978-1979 sessions?
Anyone else hear what I hear there?
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows vol 2? on: February 03, 2022, 12:26:17 AM
Umm what..? Live 1971 shows, misc. 1971 tracks and The Flame 2nd album?  Shocked

Wait is this a joke or were these really posted? Did anyone download them??

I heard the Flame album and those 1971 tracks and a HQ version of Your Song (live). So it's out there!
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New interview with Blondie on Brian's website on: November 08, 2021, 02:13:22 PM
It's revelatory that Brian was so involved in the making of the Holland album. My previous impression was that he was very reluctant participant and channeled most of his focus towards Mt Vernon.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love just announced a \ on: October 11, 2021, 02:39:49 PM
Unrelated, but cruises have a horrific environmental impact and nobody should be going on them. It's honestly better to just fly to your destination rather than support an industry that runs on heavy fuel oils which heavily pollute the environment while also dumping the waste in the seas without treatment.

I don't blame them for it, but Mike and Bruce (and Brian and Al) should know better, especially for those who have been grandstanding with environmentally minded songs (SIP, DFTS, DGNTW, etc).
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love just announced a \ on: October 11, 2021, 02:29:41 PM
If the Good Vibrations cruise doesn't include great whale hunting as a deluxe excursion for the top payers with Eric and Don Jr. posing for pictures, this will be a complete rip off.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Won't you tell me why Won't You Tell Me was left unreleased? on: October 05, 2021, 03:42:37 PM
It certainly didn't have the feel of the rest of Surf's Up, so what to do with it? It was best left in the can to be savoured for a later and safer date  Wink
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 05, 2021, 02:54:11 PM
That reminds me of some awards show back in the ‘80s — the Beach Boys were appearing during the show. During LL Cool J’s performace, the camera cut to various audience reaction shots, including one of Carl Wilson grooving to LL’s number.

I was trying to find that on youtube, but couldn't do so. But I saw this shout-out to Dennis from 1984 (ca. 1:30:00)
And no response of any kind from the audience.

That was incredibly awkward.

The presenter kind of mucked it up though and I don't think people were apathetic about Dennis' passing but rather didn't know what to do because it seemed the presenter was about to say more.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: September 08, 2021, 10:39:48 AM
Kind of amazed that something like Queen Greatest Hits can still be as high as the top 20 selling albums in the entire country. Queen are great of course, but how many times can you hear "Bohemian Rhapsody" before you're wishing for someone to drive a screw through your ear drum with an electric drill?
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: August 28, 2021, 03:25:41 PM
Should definitely have remixed both albums. Well at least they have that as a future project!
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: August 27, 2021, 12:38:02 PM
Too much to take in! I guess one word fits for now: Wow.

First impressions, the material from Dennis is amazing. As someone said earlier, Dennis could very well be the star of this box set. I got the feeling going track-by-track that the music was just pouring out of the man at this time, and the inevitable "what if?" aspect come up when you think how different things may have been if more of this music had come out at the time, and people didn't have to wait until 1977 and POB to hear the depth of his talent. Even on the instrumentals, you hear a deep soul flowing in the tracks that in terms of this band could possibly only be matched by that "X Factor" which marks Brian's best productions, that element that draws people in and gives them a sonic hug.

I'm listening through, and what strikes me about many of the tracks is just how non-traditional and experimental these chord progressions are in these songs. They're not doing standard rock chord changes, they're not doing "Blue Moon" doo-wop chords, they're not doing old boogie-woogie patterns as much as they would later...this is very, very progressive songwriting and chord construction for the type of band a lot of people thought these guys were.

"Won't You Tell Me" - Was Brian laughing at Murry's comment or at something else happening in the studio? I couldn't tell. What disturbed me was hearing Murry's voice say "Brian, I'm talking to you" like Brian was 10 or something. I tensed up hearing that, even though that demo is a treat over all.

And what also struck with that demo was hearing Brian using that type of vibrato while singing - More of a controlled crooner type of vibrato that wasn't really his trademark on those soaring 60's leads. Very interesting to hear.

Agreed with "twentytwenty" - So much for Brian being a vegetable and not doing much but lie in bed, right? Again, the proof is on the tapes. Was he as much to the forefront? Of course not, but man his presence is there on these tapes. And how great if not melancholy is it to hear *THAT VOICE* hitting the high notes which would soon disappear entirely from BB's music.

I'll say it again, Cool Cool Water is a masterpiece, and Mike sounds amazing on this. He *owned* that near-whisper, bass-baritone, close-mic'ed sound. The same sound as heard on "Meant For You", where he just gets really close to the mic and hits that range which resonates with the microphone, that's gold right there.

I have to be honest, when it comes to Surf's Up as a recording, I always lean toward the Brian-led vocals as appeared on the '93 box set, "Inside Pop", to a lesser degree the late '67 solo it was interesting to hear them try to graft a BW vocal onto the current tracks. It *could* have worked, but it's a little odd to hear. I like how those takes on the box are less ornate, and can breathe more than the final released mix, which I think is too cluttered and too heavy on falsetto harmony vocals that are distracting. And what was really, really interesting was to hear on attempt where it sounded like they deliberately tried to make the song "heavier" in a rock sense, and it felt like they were trying to rock it up a bit knowing it would be a major release. But cooler heads prevailed I suppose, or maybe I'm just hearing the "rock" in that earlier unused attempt that is more my ears than the actual intent.

There better be Grammy awards for this.

Really get a feeling for the strange relationship between Brian and his father, and this was not long before he died. Murry's voice and manner of talking is so condescending and lacking in sensitivity and it's almost like Brian giggles like a kid in response. Maybe his coping mechanism to bear growing up under the watch of such a - can I say cruel man. Murry's ego also comes through when he states it's the best song they've done in 5 years. Was the last good one perhaps Help Me Rhonda, Murry? Did your efforts as a producer bring out that extra syncopation in Al that finally nailed that record?
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