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677319 Posts in 27333 Topics by 4045 Members - Latest Member: iggy October 04, 2022, 06:01:27 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Fire and DYLW music videos from 1966/7 on: February 02, 2012, 01:06:30 PM
The 1985 American Band documentary has some strange videos of the Beach Boys circa 1966/67. One that sticks in my mind is a weird video which is set to the "Do You Like Worms" track. Band members are seen appearing and disappearing and waving their arms around. Then there is a scene where Brian appears to shake hands with himself. There is also sped up footage of a fire engine being chased down the street by Brian and others (obviously set to the Fire music). It fits the wierdness and atmosphere of Smile really well. And, of course, when this video was released it was the very first public release of many Smile-era clips and was very exciting.

There is also a clip of them riding mopeds set to Pet Sounds era music.

Anyone know why these videos were made or any background to them ?? Was Smile going to be set to film, or were these just sshort promotional clips ? Were they even meant to be set to music at all ?? Are there any longer versions of these clips in circulation ?
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / Smile Sessions Box Set (2011) / Re: TSS - All things I Love to Say Dada on: January 16, 2012, 01:42:12 PM
If this song was going to be about a baby (as revealed on a separate thread) then maybe it was not intended for the Smile album but for another project ?

3  Smiley Smile Stuff / Smile Sessions Box Set (2011) / Re: TSS - All things Child is father ...... on: January 16, 2012, 01:40:45 PM
Do people think that completed lyrics ever existed for this track ?
I don't mean that lyrics were necessarily recorded, but that maybe they were once written down somewhere ?
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Aborted 1966 and 1967 live albums? on: January 16, 2012, 01:33:18 PM
I would suggest that you use the search option this board makes available and enter Lei'd In Hawaii or Hawaii Concert 1967  or Michigan 1966...use your imagination for variations. There have been countless discussions on this board and others about this well researched subject. You might also try "google". Pretty much everybody here knows why these albums were never released, and you can too with just a tiny bit of effort.

What a d1ckhe@d !
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: ANNOUNCING soniclovenoize's Random Heroes and Villains Generator!!! on: January 11, 2012, 10:28:11 AM
Very Cool !!!

Another way of doing this would be copy all the segments as seperate audio tracks on a CD and then choose the "shuffle" function if your CD player has this option ! You could easily do the same thing with a MP3 playlist.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: If you could decide on a tracklisting of lesser known Beach Boys hits? on: January 03, 2012, 02:20:33 PM
Country Air
Time to Get Alone
I'd Love Just Once to See You
Let the Wind Blow
The Warmth of the Sun
The Lonely Sea
All I wanna Do
Little Bird
Till I Die
Add Some Music
When I Grow Up
Please Let Me Wonder
Let Him Run Wild
Oh Lord (bootleg)
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Guess I'm dumb on: January 02, 2012, 02:11:34 PM
GID sounds to me like a missing Pet Sounds track.

I agree.

It's produced exactly the same as the Pet Sound tracks and could have easily fitted into the album. It's an under-rated piece of music.

It refelects Brian's creativity at the time... he was prepared to give this track away because he could write this stuff so easily.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Surfs Up Coda - Brian's Involvement on: January 02, 2012, 01:59:23 PM
So the track "I Love to Say Dada" is a song about a baby !  That makes a lot of sense actually. Never heard that said before- has this been known about for a long time ?

I can only assume that this was a track written during the Smile sessions but not necessarily for use on the Smile album ?

People in the know should really explain everything they can remember. It's musical history and will be lost forever unless it is written down somehow. Now is the time.

9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The last instance of Brian's \ on: January 02, 2012, 01:48:10 PM
He sings a song at the end of this 1976 interview....

His voice his very husky, but you can still hear the "early" Brian underneath it all... trying to hit the falsetto but failing.

What a great singer though !!
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: How do we feel about \ on: December 28, 2011, 12:30:24 PM
You can't deny that it's a good song- one of the better ones on that album anyway.
The Beach Boys / Dennis Wilson version is miles better than the original though.. a completely different sound.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Acoustic DYLW cover on: December 12, 2011, 10:35:36 AM
I'd really love to hear a great cover of Worms that incorporates all of the lyrics and maybe even that new melody line we hear on TSS.  I'm hoping that we'll hear more interesting SMiLE covers in the wake of the new set.

Yes- that would be great. I would like to hear a version of DYLW without the H&V theme and WITH the East or West Indies lyrics AND the new melody line from the 2011 Smile Sessions. I think it would flow really nicely.

I tend to agree, but a cover should at least bear some vague musical resemblance to the original.

Are you familiar with "re-mixed" versions of music by Aphex Twin ? That guy makes a lot of money doing what he does !
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Acoustic DYLW cover on: December 12, 2011, 04:56:40 AM
Cover versions are supposed to be different from the original. If he just tried to replicate Briain's DYLW he might as well not have bothered.

I like the fact it is an attempt at a consistent, flowing song. Also like use of the East or West Indies lyrics. I don't think I've heard that done before.

Don't upset him with your miserable comments. The more that BW music is shared and performed the better.

And no, I don't know who performed it and it's got nothing to do with me !!!

13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Acoustic DYLW cover on: December 11, 2011, 12:25:39 PM
Just found this and I really like it.

14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: If Brian Had Never Smoked Pot nor Dropped Acid... on: December 04, 2011, 11:10:19 AM
Obviously these things are incredibly subjective but I have never felt in any way more creative on drugs.  At best I could kind of appreciate or "get into" music more but at the same time my perceptions & capabilities would be really scattered & disorganized.  What I think is that Brian would have had emotional/mental issues regardless, and his talent would have come through regardless.  

Maybe certain radical arrangement ideas - the intro to California Girls for example - wouldn't have happened without the drugs.  But maybe the chemical influence was secondary to just the decision to take drugs in the first place - the decision to loosen up and become less conservative, creatively and personally.

If you read in detail about how mentally ill Brian became after 1967, you appreciate that his drug addiction was way out of control and he was also suffering from dangerous levels of depression and paranoia. To the extent that he was extremely close to killing himself on numerous ocassions and made many suicide attempts. There is no doubt that drug taking made this much worse, whereas his initial symptons (which sound like depression) are treatable in the majority of  cases- even in the 1960s.  They did not help to fuel his creativity, they destroyed his whole personality.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: If Brian Had Never Smoked Pot nor Dropped Acid... on: December 04, 2011, 11:02:08 AM
Brian did seek clinical treatment himself  in 1968. Clearly did him a power of good.

During which time he was still using dangerous levels of recreational drugs I expect. The man needed to be hospitalized and placed in the care of experts.

My understanding is that Brian was more or less untreated until Landy showed up, by which time too much permanent damage had been done. Landy himself was not a reputable doctor and probably made things much worse, (even though he initially saved Brian's life through diet and exercise).

So Brian pretty much went 25+ years without proper medical intervention.


16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: If Brian Had Never Smoked Pot nor Dropped Acid... on: December 04, 2011, 07:16:19 AM
It sounds like he probably suffered from clinical depression.

But instead of getting his condition treated medically, he turned to excessive drug abuse. This appears to have made things much worse and triggered further (and even more serious) mental health problems which eventually ruined his life. Because of his success, he could financially afford drugs and afford to live in a "bubble" away from the outside world. This would not have happened to an ordinary person. Its a miracle that he is still alive.

Undoubtedly, had he stayed away from drugs and sought medical help in 1967 he would have had a much better chance of leading a completely normal and mentally healthy life. I think we would have then seen his musical progression go beyond Pet Sounds / Good Vibrations / Smile and into an even more creative world.

Drugs destroyed his life, wasted his talents, and deprived you and me of even more brilliant music.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: How do YOU think Smile would have went? on: November 30, 2011, 03:50:31 AM
I think that original idea probably consisted of 14 tightly edited tracks of approx 3 minutes in length. There were (possibly) short pieces of music linking some tracks.

I would stick to the tracks on the printed album cover...

Heroes & Villains
Do You Like Worms? (with additional lyrics and vocal arrangements)
Wind Chimes
Good Vibrations
Cabin Essence (possibly with VDPs discarded lyrics mixed in somehow)
I'm in Great Shape-   (developed as a full 3-minute track)
Child Is Father of the Man-   (with lyrics and possibly other sections)
The Elements-   (with Parts 2,3 and 4 which are possibly unrecorded)
The Old Master Painter-  (developed as a full 3 minute track)
Surf's Up

I would say 2 things (no doubt controversial)

1. I don't think any of the Smile tracks were properly completed (not during the original sessions anyhow) and therefore they are all likely to sound different from the music we are used to hearing. I think there would have definately been more lyrics and vocals for a start. I also think it would have been edited to smoothly flow together as a "whole" album.

2. I think Brian was starting work on other musical projects during the Smile Sessions and not everything we hear was necessarily intended for the album. I say this based on things I have read about him.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What Would Brian have Done After SMiLE? on: November 27, 2011, 11:11:48 AM
It would be a little like trying to predict what the Beatles would have done after Sgt Pepper.

The album would have been a hit because it would have included Good Vibrations and some other very strong music (and in my opinion what we hear in the Smile sessions only gives a hint of what the properly finished album would have sounded like).

I don't buy the idea that the Beach Boy's "old" audience of cars/girls/surf music would have been lost when Smile came out. The people who bought these records aged and moved with the times along with Brian. And most BB fans like both types of music anyway.

I predict that Brian would have stayed on top of his game for another 5-6 years and then faded a bit (as all great musicians tend to) which probably means 4 or more quality albums under the "Beach Boys" name.  Their sound would have changed and evolved however- it wouldn't be the same 3-part harmonies all the time. I can then see him getting involved in other musical projects, perhaps going solo or forming other groups, as he matured. Eventually, I could have seen him working as a top producer.

If he had stayed well and kept working, I think he would have been much more of a "household name" than he is now. And there were probably a few more number ones in him which we will never get to hear !
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dumb Angel- was it completed ? on: November 26, 2011, 02:46:12 PM
I will read more books about this and , yes, Brian does sound sharp during the recording sessions (and I've heard just about every minute of the Sea of Tunes series plus all the others). But there was no doubt a lot of "strange behaviour" going on outside the studio which which led to several of the planned sessions being cancelled (according to the Gaines book at least).

Regarding the writing sessions with Van Dyke, it has always struck me that there are very few of Van Dyke's original lyrics featured in the released Smile material. There are known lyrics for Heroes and Villains, Surf's Up, Cabinessence, a tiny bit of Worms, a tiny bit of Great Shape, Wonderful, Wind Chimes and Vega-Tables. (Although the latter two tracks are not particularly cryptic and Van-Dyke like in their nature).

It doesn't seem to be a large quantity of lyrics given the time that he and Brian were supposedly spending together. Which makes me wonder if there was originally much more.

When I hear stories about the "lost" lyrics for Cabinessence about "reconnected telephones" I wonder what else Van Dyke came up with at the time, and what the structure of the original songs were that he was writing words for.

20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dumb Angel- was it completed ? on: November 26, 2011, 01:42:15 PM
I think the whole point of the posters original question is getting lost here.  If I am understanding correctly, the original query was (to paraphrase) "Had Brian and Van Dyke completed the writing of the songs they originally intended to be on the album before Brian started recording and then began to rewrite and change his mind, or had they not finished that process and figured they would do it as they went along?"

I think this is a valid question, though one I don't think there is a definitive answer to. 

Yes- this is the question I am asking.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dumb Angel- was it completed ? on: November 26, 2011, 01:40:48 PM
Andrew- we are interested in what you have to say, but there's no need for bad manners thank you.

Actually, I am in agreement with you that Brian would not have booked studio time without something concrete to record AND would not have changed his established working patterns. That's why I think that the album was probably already written at the "Dumb Angel" stage but as Brian's mental state began to deteriorate, the sessions did not end up recording everything that he had originally written. Instead, it moved on into different territory.  I would like to know what Brian originally had planned, when he was (presumably) more focused in a single direction.

22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dumb Angel- was it completed ? on: November 26, 2011, 11:51:14 AM
Utter rubbish.

Hey- no need to get your knickers in a twist !

Here's a few clips from Steven Gaines book (my only source of information) about Brians behaviour during the Smile sessions....

Brian's behaviour grew even more peculiar and childish

[At David Anderele's apartment] Brian stood in front of the painiting for a long time, perhaps as long as an hour..... Brian became increasing distressed, claiming the number of objects in the painting, the circles and designs in the background.... were relating to different stages in Brian's life... he became so upset that eventually Anderele called Michael Vosse to ... take him home

That same Autumn, Brian's deep, paranoid obsession with Phil Spector began in earnest.... suddenly Brian thought Phil Spector was out to control or destroy him in some way. Brian would go to the record store and buy 10 copies of "Be My Baby" and literally wer out the grooves playing them... listening for hidden messages and meanings.

Brian said he had walked into a movie theater where Seconds, a new film starring Rock Hudson, was playing. ... [Brian said] "then the whole thing was there. I mean my whole life. Birth death and rebirth".... "it was mind-f***. Spector's mind f***".... [Brian then walked over to his jukebox and played the song Be My Baby]. He played sond over and over again, at least 20 times. As the song played, he sat down at his desk and began to draw diagrams with a felt-tip pen.

During that fateful autum, Brian became obsessively concerned that Murry was planting eavesdropping devices in his home an automobile.

During the preparation of Dumb Angel, Brians creativity was fueled with not only hashish but also a prescription amphetimine called Deasbutol.... Under this barrage of drugs Brian's mind became fragmented and out of control. ideas for new projects came in powerful spurts, distracting him for long periods from Dumb Angel. These myriad concepts soon became to overtake work on the album itself, as even the album's name changed to simply Smile.

Over twenty songs were preapred for the new album... According to David Anderele, they recorded enough songs for three albums but the material changed continually

That (to me at least) sound like a complete mental breakdown and evidence that the recording sessions deviated from the original Dumb Angel / Smile project.

I am still curious to know whether the original Smile/Dumb Angel tracks were written (and therefore at some stage of completion) in mid-1966, prior to the start of the recording sessions. Brain (when he was comparitively stable) would surely not have entered the recording studio without a body of pre-written music to actually record.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dumb Angel- was it completed ? on: November 25, 2011, 07:33:57 AM
But... I don't recall anyone ever suggesting he was making up Smile as he went along. He always had the music written before starting recording on any album (the lyrics, not so much). Hence my confusion, frosted by the fact that the Dumb Angel concept existed for maybe a few weeks in late summer 1966 and was only ever a working title for the next album.

By reading various accounts (such as the Steven Gaines book) Brian's erratic behaviour started in mid to late 1966 and ended up with a complete mental breakdown during the recording sessions. During this time he would not focus on anything, continually started work on new projects, and was always changed his mind about the music he was writing. Presumably, he was relatively focused at the beginning of the Smile sessions but lost the way half way through... effectively making things up as he went along rather than working to a plan.

I would suggest that prior to the recording sessions there was a definite idea about the contents of the forthcoming album, but presumably this was never recorded or written down.

Only speculation by me, I'm not tryiong to 100% assert that this is the case !
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dumb Angel- was it completed ? on: November 25, 2011, 03:18:50 AM
I guess he's just proposing the idea that at one point, in the summer of '66 or so, there was a batch of 12-14 songs that were all fully written and arranged as whole pieces with no ambiguity about which section went where or what order the verses were in, that Brian could have performed or demo'd as whole songs, and that it was only once tracking started in earnest that they started being broken down into their individual components and shuffled around, which led to the plot eventually being lost.

Interesting idea, don't think there's much evidence for it.

Yes- that's exactly the question I am asking.

Brian did not produce an album like Pet Sounds by making things up as he went along. He had whole pieces of music written and prepared before the recording sessions began. During the recording sessions he might have experimented with vocals and musical arrangements, but basically each song was already written.

I would imagine that in autumn 1966 Smile (or Dumb Angel as it was then known) was in a similar state of construction. Brian could sit down at a piano and play demos of each track if he was asked to do that. So in that sense the album was "complete" even if it was never recorded.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dumb Angel- was it completed ? on: November 24, 2011, 05:57:47 AM
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