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678685 Posts in 27433 Topics by 4045 Members - Latest Member: reecemorgan March 30, 2023, 03:47:21 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Best End Tags on: June 25, 2017, 11:56:43 PM
Wind Chimes - Smiley Smile version
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Any of you audio isolation experts able to isolate the guitars on IKTAA? on: September 05, 2014, 07:27:40 AM
I've read in The Wrecking Crew book that Brian called one of the guitar players (was it Glen Campbell?) up for a session, called one of the biggest music shops in LA (which was not open) to bring him a Fender twelve string and a big Fender amp. At the end of the session, Brian told him that he could keep all the gear and bring it to his house...

3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: If Brian was 19 or 20 in 2014 on: August 22, 2014, 08:07:54 AM
If he had the same tastes, his music would appeal to arty types. I don't understand why some people here seem to think that all modern music = Bieber.
Well, in terms of international success, that's not a bad comparison...
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: W i l d H o n e y on: August 14, 2014, 05:31:18 AM
Also, I do agree that you can hear everything in "Break Away". I wasn't being literal in my a capella comment. I'd say, though, that it lacks the clarity of a track like "Help Me Rhonda". The sounds don't necessarily jump out. That said, it is A LOT better than "Do It Again".

Listen to the chorus of "Break Away" starting at about 1:00. On my Spirit of America copy, you hear a BUNCH of vocals, the percussion, and some horn stabs. The rest of the track is still there, I think, but it's essentially acting as a very atmospheric echo. Is there a bass? A guitar? A piano? Hell if I know. Maybe. There's something muddy going on that I can't grasp. For me, it's a step down from "Help Me Rhonda" and "Sloop John B".  Like when the guitar comes in at the end of the chorus - again - it just don't pop.

And yes, Mr. Desper, Friends sounds amazing. I love that album, and I don't know about everything you helped the BBs with, but I think  20/20 and the early 70s material sounds good, too. Again, I don't know exactly who or what is responsible for the muddiness on Wild Honey or "Do It Again", but it's there.
COMMENT:  Please define "muddiness." Usually this means an overabundance of bass or a rolloff of the top end. In broadcasting it means a low level, i.e., the VU meter is “down in the mud” or only moving in the lower left of the scale, which is all black (or mud).   

Somewhere I posted about the differences between recording in stereo and mixing in stereo. In short, re-mixing a production designed for mono release is not at all the same as mixing one recorded with a stereo mix in mind. When you mix a mono recording into stereo it's like taking a B&W photo and colorizing it. Oh, it's in color all right, just as some of the mono tracks are panned left, center, and right, but L/C/R a stereo recording does not make. That is only an amplitude stereo mix because you assign in your mix some tracks to each location, however as you have noted, the leakage does not follow.

Consider the effect that microphone leakage has on the finished product. In mono the leakage is point source and has no dimension. It fuses with the original sound of the instrument or voice to become one point in space like everything else on the track. Mono is a one point source. Mono recordings are intended to be point sources of sound IN THEIR TOTALITY. The producer takes into account the effect of microphone leakage in their judgment calls about the entire mix.

Now consider what happens when you mix a mono production into stereo. You pull apart what the producer intended to be a point source, to act as one sound. In stereo you separate (by way of phase discrimination) the original instrument's sound from its microphone leakage. The instrument stays a point source while the microphone leakage is heard as phase-derived stereo. Is that what the producer intended? Who knows since the original instrument was never intended to be separated from the bloom of overall leakage. Now the instrument becomes something with a different sound (original instrument less leakage) and the leakage take on its own identity – which must be taken into consideration.

If you define mud as a diffusion of clarity; look to leakage as a culprit. Wherein the mono production, leakage was a consideration of the whole mix, now in stereo it take on its own character. What was once, say, six instruments, each and every one living in the same acoustic reproduction space, now, in stereo, is six instruments living in an expanded space but with each instrument adding leakage in phase-stereo. In effect you hear more leakage than in mono, more room sound, more distance, and that you may call mud or a blurring of the sound.
If the production was to be stereo from the get-go, microphone leakage is given a different consideration – in fact, the leakage is more of a problem and is reduced in proportion to the original instrument AT THE TIME OF RECORDING.

We engineers can do many things to the sound, but taking a mono multi-track and remaking it into stereo is just a few steps away from Duophonic . . . so don’t expect miracles.     
  ~swdWell, the stereo mix of Let The Wind Blow was a miracle!!
Thanks for your input Mr Desper
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: I need SMiLE experts to help answering mixing questions. on: August 14, 2014, 01:39:04 AM
Thanks for your suggestions!
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike posts about Robin Williams on facebook on: August 12, 2014, 01:22:18 PM
The fisher king was an amazing movie
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: seltaeb1012002's Stereo Remixes Thread (update: Wouldn't It Be Nice) on: August 12, 2014, 06:47:07 AM
I'd love to hear My Solution in WAV but the link is dead!
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Specific Beach Boys Musical Moment That Is Kicking Your Ass Right Now on: August 11, 2014, 07:25:16 AM
"My solution", 1:30 to 1:50...otherworldly. Reminds me a lot of Robert Wyatt's "The Age Of Self", especialy the chorus. Great song
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Can't Wait Too Long (Much Too Long Version) on: August 10, 2014, 04:06:18 AM
Did you use lossless sources? If so I'd like a wav version that'll be great! One of my faves!
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks? on: August 06, 2014, 06:47:10 AM
Brown Shoes Don't Make it is also one of the earliest examples of modular recordings (recorded in November 66'). There's also a parody of the Beach Boys in there!
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Can't wait too long snippet on: August 06, 2014, 05:45:47 AM
No that's not the one I'm talking about though it's surely also one of my favorites.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks? on: August 06, 2014, 05:43:55 AM
A little bit of both actually. There are too many evident musical links between H&V/Gee/DYLM; Surf's Up/CIFOTM/Look; Wind Chimes/Can't Wait Too Long; Wind Chimes itself can be linked to Surf's Up because it hase the same kind of piano pattern, and I'm not even talking about all the alternate versions and snippets on Smiley couldn't see the SMiLE songs as truly separate because they're so intrinsically linked. I think, taking the composer's point of view, that Brian had a variety of musical segments that all came from writing a single song, and had multiple paths going from there. It reminds me a lot of Frank Zappa and his "conceptual continuity" for those who are familiar. It's basically the same concept but spread over a whole discography (a HUGE discography in that case!) ""Well, the conceptual continuity is this: everything, even this interview, is part of what I do for, let's call it, my entertainment work. And there's a big difference between sitting here and talking about this kind of stuff, and writing a song like 'Titties and Beer'. But as far as I'm concerned, it's all part of the same continuity. It's all one piece. It all relates in some weird way back to the focal point of what's going on."     "Project/Object is a term I have used to describe the overall concept of my work in various mediums. Each project (in whatever realm), or interview connected to it, is part of a larger object, for which there is no 'technical name.'

    Think of the connecting material in the Project/Object this way: A novelist invents a character. If the character is a good one, he takes on a life of his own. Why should he get to go to only one party? He could pop up anytime in a future novel.

    Or: Rembrandt got his 'look' by mixing just a little brown into every other color -- he didn't do 'red' unless it had brown in it. The brown itself wasn't especially fascinating, but the result of its obsessive inclusion was that 'look.'

    In the case of the Project/Object, you may find a little poodle over here, a little blow job over there, etc., etc. I am not obsessed by poodles or blow jobs, however; these words (and others of equal insignificance), along with pictorial images and melodic themes, recur throughout the albums, interviews, films, videos (and this book) for no other reason than to unify the 'collection.'"

13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Can't wait too long snippet on: August 06, 2014, 04:46:32 AM
Hi freaks!

I just wanted to know if anybody had an idea where to find the very first snipped of CWTL that you can hear on this video I'm pretty sure this is one of the only takes of this song not officially released, but I'd be glad to be proved wrong. Does anybody know where I can find it (exept on UM vol 19) in good quality? This is definitely one of my favorite pieces of music.

Thanks very much
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: I need SMiLE experts to help answering mixing questions. on: July 29, 2014, 08:52:30 AM
Hi again. I need genius scientists and mathematicians here. Geek time.

Wonderful: From the moment the harpsichord starts playing to the moment it stops playing,

1: The released mono version on TSS is 1m 58s 28 long.
2: The instrumental only version on TSS d3 v1, when a speed+pitch plugin is used to slow it down one whole step (about ten percent slower), is 1m 54s 26 long. It still is faster and therefore shorter than the released version even though it's perfectly in tune with it. The harpsichord is approximately 4,02 seconds shorter.

Granted, I don't use a real tape machine, it's just the audacity plugin than claims to change pitch and timing simultaneously.

What percentage of the tempo should I apply to the instrumental for it to reach the same timing at the end? What is the percentage to apply for it to be 4,02 seconds longer?

OR, is there anyone here who knows, even a little bit, exactly how much a tape should be slowed down  for it to be exactly one whole step slower?

Where is Doc Brown when I need him!!
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: I need SMiLE experts to help answering mixing questions. on: July 28, 2014, 09:52:43 AM
The thing is, even if I switch to mono for the bridge in DYLM, using the official TSS track for example, I don't want to add the stereo back vocals to it because they're already on the mono mix, and the results are not good if you do that. What I can do is making a mono mix of the backing track with phase inversion to suppress the tremola, add the isolated Mike vocals and add the stereo back vocals, but the echo chamber on Mike's vocals will be lost. Using a reverb plugin on Mike's vocals is tempting, but I want to resist!! And moreover, the bass fuzz guitar fades out slowly when the bridge starts, which is not the case with the stereo backing track...I want to stay as close as possible.

Concerning OMP, obviously the two can't synch because they're completely different takes. Hal Blaine is a motherf**king drummer, granted, but probably not THAT good! I switched to mono when the vocal comes in, and switched back to stereo when the sax solo starts. IMO it's better than to put the vocals on the far side of the spectrum, but each solution is a good solution. My aim is to make the thing sounds as best as possible, and it's not neccesarily stereo, and in this case since the vocals sound so far away anyway, it sounds really cool in mono, so I decided to leave it this way.

I have another thing that bugs me in Cabin Essence. That's what I wanted to do: taking the TSS stereo backing track, inverting the phase on the 20 20 version to keep the mono lead vocals (I've always found the 20/20 mix way too hissy and unclear for my taste). The problem comes when I wan to synch the "doing doing doing" vocals with the rest of it...It just won't synch properly! Another problem is, during the chorus, there's not enough natural reverb on the TSS vocals as there are on 20/20 and TSS disc 1...

Thanks for all your help man! Greatly appreciated...
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: I need SMiLE experts to help answering mixing questions. on: July 28, 2014, 07:59:39 AM
I'm talking about the "Indian" part near the end, Mike sings lead
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: I need SMiLE experts to help answering mixing questions. on: July 28, 2014, 04:40:27 AM
Hi again.
I arrived (I wouldn't say safely) to the Old Master Painter/My Only Sunshine part of the album. So far I'm pretty happy with the results. The only real dificulty yet has been the "Mohale lule mohale lula" part on DYLW. I don't know why, but even with all the different tracks I have, there was no way I could make it sound right in stereo. The stereo backing track exists, but unless you use a vocal removal plugin, you can't get rid of that annoying slide guitar that's so badly out of tune and keep the whole track stereo. You can do phase inversion but you're left with a mono backing track at the end, so...I also tried to keep the backing track mono and to add stereo backing vocals, but somehow they won't synch. Plus I also have Mike's lead vocals alone, but they're dry, no reverb, and I don't want to add digital reverb at all. It's not really a problem to have some mono snippets in my version, but since I'm so close to the real deal here...

Now can somebody finally tell me what is wrong with "My only sunshine", from where Dennis starts to sing? Why won't it synch with the backing track on disc 3 track 6 of TSS box set? I don't know what trick they used or if the vocals were mixed on the spot with a lost/unknown take, later mixed with the Old Master Painter (we have the good take on this one though), or what...on thing is clear, when the violins start to play along the Dennis' vocals, they clearly play at the same tempo, they start slowly during the "you are my" part. But on TSS d3 T6 the violins come rushing, which means they either used another take, or used some king of time stretching device, but I would say it's the first suggestion since the rest of the take can't be synched either...And, well, the sax solo is completely different...Where is that take?!

Feel free to comment or to add any suggestion. I've yet to hear a proper stereo version of this track...
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: I need SMiLE experts to help answering mixing questions. on: July 24, 2014, 04:58:54 AM
Yep that's why I though to do if there wasn't any other possible solution. I might just do that and put the trombone lick one one side to keep the whole thing stereo. Thanks for your answers, I'll drop by later if I need any help!
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / I need SMiLE experts to help answering mixing questions. on: July 24, 2014, 04:03:58 AM
Hi everybody, I'm trying to get myself to work again on my own stereo version of SMiLE which I started slow long ago (head to toe), but never actualy finished. I own and know how to use multiple DAW such as ProTools and Cubase. I know basic editing and mixing (though I don't want to change the tonal qualities of the original recordings at all, I'll have to find ways around it, but there's no way I'm gonna pitch down/up the BB's vocals ever)

Gee: this is where I need help. No problem at all on this one exept at the very end, on the official version, Al Jardine's "pa pa pa" vocals were cut out, as was the tack piano, to let the "heroes and villains" back vocals fade slowly before the trombone lick. But with the stereo version of Gee available on the Smile Sessions box set, it's impossible to do, is it? I'm sure I heard the solo tack piano track somewhere, but it won't help, since I need the other vocals, all the vocals exept Jardine's. Anyone got a solution? Maybe there's another track anywhere that can isolate that?

I might have some other questions lated, but for now this is basically my main problem. The next one will be finding the right master takes for You Are My Sunshine, in order to get the vocals in synch with the strings.

Thanks very much for any help or suggestions.

I'll post my version later if it's allright, with details of everyting I did if it's of any interest to anyone. I'll definitely not do any anachronism (exept maybe for some Smiley Smile bits).

20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Isolated He Gives Speeches backing vocals? on: June 24, 2014, 03:20:26 PM
Well thank you com'rade

21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Isolated He Gives Speeches backing vocals? on: June 23, 2014, 03:33:10 PM
"seltaeb1012002's Smile Mixer's Toolkit"

And where can we find such a piece?  Smiley
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson Heard My Music. (audio) on: October 30, 2012, 12:50:04 PM
I hope you guys don't mind me sharing this with you. I found this a few weeks ago when I unpacked my CD collection, and it brought back a lot of memories. Here goes...

The year: 1998.

I was 14 years old, and just that past Christmas my parents had bought me my first multitrack recorder: a Tascam 424 mkII. I started experimenting with recording at 11 years old. The way I had to do it back then was fairly primitive. I would record myself playing an instrument on one cassette, then I'd play that cassette back & overdub myself playing something else onto another cassette, and the process would continue until I was at the end of both tapes. The hiss levels were crazy (I'm sure other home musicians coming up at this time can relate) but that's how I first got my feet wet with recording. Needless to say the Tascam 4-track was a huge step up for me at the time, even though you could only milk 15 minutes out of each tape. The massive upgrade in quality was well worth it.

My god! It's like I'm reading my own childhood! I did the exact same thing!
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Child is the Father of the Man isolated vocals on: January 13, 2012, 11:14:44 AM
This oughta be useful to somebody

Second chorus

First chorus (not as prolific)
How did you do it?
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Smile Sessions vs. Smiley Smile on: December 26, 2011, 04:56:58 AM
I love Wonderful and Wind Chimes from SS. And I always hated He Gives Speeches, but I kinda like She's Going Bald. I like the vocals from Fall Breaks, that's why I love TSS version.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Tune X and Gee. on: December 15, 2011, 10:33:06 AM
I think this has great potential. It would be quite amazing if there was a bit more work, I don't know, what do you think?

Tune X Instrumental mashed with Little Pad

I wanted to put the original tracks but someone made a great cover, much better quality (it's not mine)

Someone did a proper mashup of the original tracks and there was a ton of quite a few in certain spots. This one modifies the chords etc. to make it work, just as someone could do with several other Beach Boys songs that sound similar but are otherwise unrelated. I really don't think this one is a case of Brian re-using old musical elements - "Little Pad" is total Smiley Smile-era, from everything we've heard.
Yeah he modified some chords but the harmony and the melody are all the same, he just transposed the vocal parts to fit the instrumental. When a simple transposition is the only modification to make two different songs blend almost perfectly together, I would be tempted to think it's not only a simple coincidence. The other mash up version had the instrumental pitch-shifted, whereas here the instrumental has not been touched and instead the singer (pretty good singer actually!) changed the vocal part.

My guess (with a little reserve) is that Tune X ma have been Brianized for the SS Sessions...
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