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670364 Posts in 26988 Topics by 3939 Members - Latest Member: Anna Lee July 29, 2021, 06:25:39 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis' homelessness on: July 26, 2021, 06:49:26 AM
Dennis' situation near the end of his life is a very sad one. We as outsiders can look on and wonder why the group didn't do enough. Mental illness and substance abuse are tricking things even for professionals to tackle. I just don't think the band and their management were able to handle it effectively. It was basically a tough love approach; get clean or you are out of the band. I can only imagine what kind of havoc Dennis caused over the years. In the Gaines book, he came across as very stubborn when it came to addressing his demons. Can you fix someone who doesn't want to be saved? Mike claimed Dennis had a death wish; I don't know I buy that, but he definitely was not in good shape. It seemed like the band was just exhausted dealing with how to handle Dennis; they had been doing that their entire lives. Dennis should never have been homeless but it seemed like even Carl and Audree were no longer going to help him out anymore. There was no excuse for Dennis Wilson to be homeless or to die the way he did, but to me, it seems like the group was content with letting Dennis be Dennis. The group was more focused on fixing Brian, probably because he's Brian Wilson, and even their efforts were not the best. It seems like there was a lot of planning behind the scenes with their management and Landy to get Brian back into him. Remember there are articles from the time claiming that Brian was 'Shanghai'd' to Hawaii. They evicted Caroline Williams from Brian's home and shut off all utilities during this time, too. Brian was obviously in bad health, but the way the group handled the transition back to Landy was very bad. This was all happening late 82, early 83; so Dennis was probably aware of some of the stuff going on. Maybe that's why he was so hesitant to avoid treatment. He saw what the band did to Brian and he didn't want any of that.

I believe Brian did have some natural resentment toward Carl for getting him back with Landy and then, years later, trying to get Landy out of Brian's life. Landy being the psychopath he was, used this resentment as a way to create a further wedge from Brian and the band/the family/etc.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys (Mike/Bruce) appearing on CNN 4th of July special on: July 05, 2021, 06:06:46 AM
Retire Mike.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Goiní On on: June 21, 2021, 08:28:51 PM
I really like Goin On and it deserved something better than #83 or whatever it reached. I think it's also one of the better produced tracks from KTSA. The vocals are great, too, as is the sax solo. The band seemed to enjoy playing the song live, too, back when they released the album. I guess I have a soft spot for Brian's Goin On vocal.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Love and Mercy Sequel on: June 21, 2021, 08:22:33 PM
There won't be a sequel, but the biggest flaw, in my view, of L&M, was that it still perpetuated the myth of Brian retreating immediately after Smile; only for him to finally show up 20+ years later. Brian went through a lot of sh*t in the 1970s that probably wouldn't make for a great story, but it's essential to telling the life of Brian. As mentioned earlier, a documentary would be a better look than a film on these years. Rocky and Stan were essentially bullies to Brian. For much of the 1970s Brian was forced to do things he did not want in order for the band to profit. I kind of understand why Brian wanted to just disappear and be a bum. Another aspect that's been forgotten about is how Brian got back to Landy, the band's behind the scenes work to get Landy back (including Carl), and the way Carolyn Williams was treated.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: California Calling on: June 21, 2021, 05:48:33 PM
It'd be interesting to know the reception Where I Belong or California Calling would have had if they were singles. California is catchy, but Where I Belong is pure art, 80s sound and all.

Also, we are missing the real, hidden #1 - Male Ego.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Best point in time to break up-if any-to maximize the group's critical standing? on: June 16, 2021, 06:24:25 PM
Holland. I love Love You and Adult/Child, but that period in general is such a low point for the band. Endless Summer ruined them, making them a corporation, in which each member is different, but they stick together because of the money.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Does Mike still love Brian? on: June 16, 2021, 06:09:19 PM
I believe Mike does love Brian. It's just Mike's love for Brian is different. One, there is the familial love that pre-exists fame. The way Mike discussed it in his autobiography, he and Brian were best friends in high school. I think Mike is stick in the past, waiting for the Brian he knew really well, to re-emerge one day. Brian and Mike haven't been close in a long time. I personally don't think Mike ever got over Brian leaving the touring band and working with outside lyricists; that must have made Mike feel really rejected. Seeing the life Brian has gone through since their co-writing heyday, it's easy for Mike to blame it all on Murry, drugs, Landy, Melinda, etc. Mike has had a fixation of just being with Brian at a piano like it's 1965, when they were recording the Party album on the heels of California Girls. Mike's love for Brian is cemented in the past.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Bruce's claim that \ on: June 09, 2021, 09:55:15 PM
Melt Away is one of Brian's greatest songs proving Bruce incorrect. A lot of BW88 is really great, but I can see why some people wouldn't like the production or Brian's voice. There's even some killer stuff on Sweet Insanity. The thing with Brian's work from the 80s on is how much of the work is actually Brian. Even though Landy was an authoritarian, the music from those two albums still sounds like Brian. Sweet Insanity sounds a lot different than BW88 - just how Adult/Child was a lot different than Love You - but you can still see connections. I just wonder from Imagination on, how involved was Brian with the music and production? Seems like the last time we got true Brian music was back with Paley. Are there later songs that I really like? Yes, but I still wonder how much of the end of TWGWTR is Brian and how much of it is Joe Thomas. It doesn't take away from the fact that I love From There to Back Again. Brian's definitely written great songs since Til I Die, it's all personal choice on what his last great song was.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 15 Big Ones or LA (Light Album) - Which do you prefer of the two? on: June 08, 2021, 04:57:31 PM
15 Big One is a fine album to have on in the background, but it's a weak album overall, in my opinion. I prefer the MIC version of Rock N Roll Music; a version like that in 1976 would have given the album a more powerful kick. I really like It's OK; it's fast, catchy, and it showed off the group could still make good pop music. Having that not be the first single released was a big mistake. You have a good pop original song by Brian Wilson, why are we releasing a Chuck Berry cover in Year 0 of Brian's Back? It's Do It Again for 1976.

Had To Phone Ya is a great track and made for a good B-side. Both this and It's OK do a good job showing off the different voices of the band and also the different styles of a Brian production. One of the problems with 15 Big Ones is that no one had veto power over Brian's vocals. The group should have worked to hide rough Brian; using his voice more in the harmony and background. Blend it in with the band. You only get a small portion of a Brian lead during the first 3 tracks, at the end of Had to Phone Ya. Then we get another Brian lead and this time it's a cover of Chapel of Love and this is where the album gets uninteresting. I can appreciate Chapel of Love and Brian's voice during this time period, but it's not something that should have been issued out as part of a Brian's Back campaign. (That goes for really all of the covers; except Just Once In My Life.) Then we get Everyone's In Love With You, which is easily one of the worst Beach Boys songs released from the 1962-1977 period. (I've at least listened to it more than Bull Session With Big Daddy and Denny's Drums.) I like Mike's stuff usually, I even like Sumahama (which I will get to later).

For the rest of the originals: That Same Song is alright. I don't know if Brian should have sang the lead on it; I am sure Carl would have done a fine job with it. Brian's hoarsely shouting more than singing. I actually like TM Song; they should have just cut out the comedy bit. Nice little song that would be an added bonus on a stronger album, like Holland. It's reminiscent of Brian's quirkiness from the late 1960s and it's a good vocal by Al. Susie Cincinnati is there; it's fine, but again, not a great original. Back Home is terrible, replace it with Sherry She Needs Me and the album gets a lot better.  

For the covers, Just Once In My Life is a killer production and vocal. This is another example of Brian being a good augment to the lead rather than the full lead vocal. It's a great closing track and even though it's a cover, it foreshadows Brian's work on Love You and Adult/Child. I kind of like Blueberry Hill, mainly for the walking bass intro. The others are meh; though Brian said that when he first heard Carl's vocal for Palisades Park that he cried immediately. I think the fans sometimes forget that Brian loves oldies almost as much as Mike, so I feel like this album was where Brian's head was at. Now he had to be forced to do all of this stuff, so sometimes I wonder how passive aggressive Brian was during all of this. "I have to record? Fine, I'll play it all on Moogs, it'll mostly be covers and I'll sing poorly, too." Bu again, Brian likes playing music, especially songs he loves, so maybe he really put it all into 15 Big Ones. The problem was no one stepped in to try to make it tighter. We all know that they collectively had enough music to make for a really good 15 tracks album. This whole period is just desperation for money on the part of the band and their management, though, so no one really cared about the product. They just wanted something out ASAP. Brian was not back in 1976. In hindsight, it's very naive to think Brian could be "fixed" within months and then say, "Okay, buddy, time for Good Vibrations Part Two. Oh, and you're going to be doing interviews and touring all over the country" Just a side effect of the issues people have dealing with mental illness.  

LA is a decent album. It starts off sounding very fresh but appropriate; what you except a good sounding Beach Boys in 1979. I feel like you can almost pick out Brian in Good Timin' and Lady Lynda even though he's not vocally present for them. Bruce or someone did a good job of getting the group sound and even mimic Brian circa MIU. There first two tracks are not masterpieces, but, in terms of general public's expectations, it sounds like The Beach Boys. Lady Lynda doesn't need the Bach intro; but after that, Al kills it and the vocals at the end (starting with Mike's "Come along with me") are fantastic. I don't think much of 15 Big Ones sounded like The Beach Boys or the public's perception of what they should sound like.

For Carl's songs, Full Sail and Goin South are okay, Angel Come Home is the best; that's a good song to utilize Dennis' voice. On the surface, LA seems more like a group project than 15 Big Ones. It's just a patchwork of stuff but it sounds like a group album. You get leads and originals from all 4 with Bruce's production all over this album. In some ways, it kind of mirrors 20/20. Brian's out of it and the group resurrects older Brian songs to complete the album. So for LA, we get disco Here Comes the Night and Shortenin' Bread; not quite the same as Our Prayer and Cabinessence. HCTN was a huge mistake, even though it's fun to listen to it every now and again. I wonder how Brian felt that another one of his songs was being used as a single; sure he had no say in that, which is upsetting, because the original is a great song. Shortenin Bread is fun and I like it, but it's a weird closer; especially for your first album on a new label that's already pissed at you.

Love Surrounds Me sounds like it belongs on Pacific Ocean Blue (that's a positive to me) while Baby Blue sounds more like a Dennis Beach Boys song a la Cuddle Up. Sumahama is a nice song and I think it's one of the last times Mike wrote an original with some earnest. What Mike songs post-Sumahama are not written in search of a #1 or recreation of/connection to the past?

I would say overall LA is a better album than 15 Big Ones, but I probably play the few great songs on 15 Big Ones more than anything on LA. I think I'm going to listen to some of each now!
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: She Knows Me Too Well- An abusive relationship set to music on: June 05, 2021, 08:19:51 PM
I see the point, but I don't think it's necessarily an abusive relationship. I think it's written from a similar perspective of the Brian tracks on the B-side of Today. Insecurity. The insecurity of thinking you're not being good enough to your partner. You don't deserve them and think they'll leave. I'm not sure if this was written before or after the infamous telegram Brian sent Marilyn mid-flight at of his fear of Marilyn leaving him while on tour. Brian, though, was attracted to other women. Maybe someone can help please this anecdote, but I believe in 1964, Brian struck up a conversation in a bar with a woman and I believe she wrote him a letter and Marilyn found it and was not happy. I don't think Brian did anything beyond flirting, but She Knows Me Too Well really plays out these insecurities and contradictions Brian was facing. Brian was still attracted to other women, but I think he also recognized the value of staying loyal. Brian was not a womanizer like Mike or Dennis. He had these feelings that he put out into the music; Mike would flesh out the ideas, but Mike was coming from a different background than Brian. So maybe that's why the lyrics to some of this songs seem a bit weird because it's incorporating both Brian and Mike's thoughts. The theme is simple; I really love her, so I won't cheat and she knows that. And I know she won't cheat either, but I'm still jealous due to insecurity.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Bruce's claim that \ on: June 05, 2021, 08:02:27 PM
Bruce has always lived in a bubble. I doubt he's heard a lot of post Til I Die tracks from Brian. 

Bruce left after Surf's Up.

For Beach Boys tracks, after Surf's Up, Bruce was on Marcella, California, Chapel of Love, Just Once In My Life, and I'll Bet He's Nice. He was also on Good Time and Susie Cincinnati, but those were recorded before he left. When he rejoined, Brian was passing out in parks in San Diego and living like a vagrant. So in Bruce's head, Til I Die definitely stands out as the last great Brian song. Love You and Adult/Child do not strike me as albums Bruce would like. MIU does seem like something Bruce would actually like, but since it went nowhere, I don't think Bruce is familiar with it. Bruce is focused on the business and that's why he and Mike are still partners; they have the same financial goal. 

As for Brian's solo stuff, I really don't think the rest of the band ever listened to it. Brian said they gave him a quick congrats on his 1988 album before starting a business meeting. I think this meeting might also be the same one that's transcribed in Mike's book. I'm guessing they knew a few songs; the ones promoted and played live. Mike trashed the album in Goldmine; saying that Brian sounded like sh*t, compared to what Brian is capable of sounding like. Mike also was aware of Sweet Insanity, but it might be he only knew the name of the project. I wonder what Carl thought of the 1988 album. It must have been hard for the guys in some sense; seeing Brian create again, but it doesn't sound like Brian of old and it's under Landy, the guy they forced Brian to go back to in 1982. They saw how Landy had his grips on Brian by 1988; I bet some of them felt some guilt at getting Brian into that situation. 
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian on SNL 1976 on: June 02, 2021, 07:02:39 PM
The whole Brian's Back campaign can be blamed on Stephen Love (and to the lesser extent the guys in the band) and Landy. It's clear there was no unity anymore in the band, but they were making bank and wanted the good times to continue. Brian started therapy fall 1975 and it only takes a few months for Brian to be suddenly back and ready to record, tour, promote, and interview! Love was the manager at the time and he hired a PR campaign for Brian's Back. It was a cash grab to follow up on the 74/75 revival. Landy got his hooks into the group process throughout the year and I think that's how he was able to finagle Brian only onto SNL. Dennis had the idea for the TV special. I am sure there was spite from within the group; and Brian wanted nothing to do with any of it. I just cannot imagine how no one ever stopped and said, "Hmm, this guy doesn't sound like he use to. In fact, he sounds terrible. You sure we should release this? Or have him tour?" At the end of the day, it was all about getting more money, no matter what. It would have been much better for the group had they performed SNL, with Brian just in the back on a keyboard. Could have promoted It's OK with Good Vibrations and God Only Knows; a performance like that would have been better for posterity than the one we got from Brian solo.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Cool interview with Steve Levine on: May 22, 2021, 11:17:34 AM
From what I've read, mostly by fans, Bruce can be hot and cold with people. Somewhere on this board, there's an anecdote of Bruce getting really pissed at a fan who mentioned Bruce's production on LA and KTSA. He seems like a very affable man, but he's also a businessman at the end of the day. If I recall, didn't he tell Carlin in an e-mail interview for CAW something along the lines of, "You fans really take this seriously, it's just a business to me."

I've never met him though, so again, most of what I know is what fans post along. I'm sure others can shed some light on that.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What do we really know about the late 60's- early 70's Murry Wilson? on: April 22, 2021, 09:42:55 PM
Questions I have about Murry...
...Why the hell did Capitol fund an album for him in 1967? Especially with the collapse of Smile and the lawsuit; just weird timing.
...What was Murry's thoughts on stuff like Sunflower and Surf's Up?
...What did Murry think about the addition of Blondie and Ricky?
...What relationship did Murry and Carl have?
...What was Brian and Murry's relationship like post-Breakaway/SOT?
...Did Murry ever meet Van Dyke and if so, what would that conversation have sound like?
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys bought on: February 19, 2021, 11:01:32 PM
Coming out of the chauffeur's quarters stoned to post my thoughts while eating junk food...

I have some concerns about this deal. As I'm sure many here can relate to, the music has meant so much to me, no matter the circumstance. Even though our life stories are completely different, I just connect so much with Brian. The amount of sh*t Brian has had to deal with; he was just this kid who would wanted to make records people liked. This young guy perpetually taken advantage of, being emotionally or physically abused, laid astray at times by people of questionable intent. All Brian wanted to do was make records with friends and all he wanted from that was enjoyment. Not money. The blurb Brian gave on the back of the All Summer Long sums it up well: "I live with my piano and I love to make records that my friends like to hear. The fellas have worked so well with me - you'd never know we were brothers and cousins. Thank you for giving me the incentive to create our records."

Money ruined The Beach Boys. Once they got initial success, the pressures put on Brian amplified and multiplied with each passing year. The deeper Brian got into the business, the industry, the drug scene, the more he began to spiral. Brian was just a Hawthorne kid who wanted to make music. He worked his ass for so long and he just wanted to make people (mostly Murry) happy. In my career, I really relate to that; working so hard and being so invested in your job, you burn out. You need to pause and make (or listen to) Friends. Every time I listen to Passing By, I just think of Brian at the keys just humming and vibing; escaping reality. I relate to that. The world has been a f***ed up place and I think Brian saw that (both in his own life and in the world) and just withdrew. One reason I'm so connected to this music and Brian are due to my own anxieties, fears, depressions, the heartache, the obsessive habits. Something tells me I'm not the only one here who feels it when hearing lines like:

"I built all my goals around you that some day my love would surround you/You'll never know what we've been through for so long I thought about it and now I just can't live without it/This beautiful image I have of you"
"It kills my soul."
"Is somebody gonna tell me why she has to hide?"
"Everything is old and nothing is new. All I ever do is think of you. Memories haunt me night and day."
"There's been songs about celebration but if you ask me, I can't see why. There's too much pain, too much pain in my heart now."

That's not even bringing in all the joyous songs that bring me sheer joy, like Hushabye or Cool, Cool Water or the last 40 seconds of Wind Chimes. but back to the point; money really ruined the guys. I believe it turned Mike into what he is today; a relentless business/brand promoter. I have always tried to be fair to Mike; I admit to reading and enjoying his autobiography. With that being said, Mike has ALWAYS been wanting a way to make a buck. I wonder how much of that dates back to his father's business going under and his parents having to move out of their mansion. Is Mike still worrying something like that will befall him? He had bankruptcy once before. Maybe Mike is just a workaholic, but if you go back to wanting to connect with your audience ($)vs Cabinessence, there's Mike. Endless Summer; that's Mike. All of the Brian's Back campaign was the Loves. Stephen the "brains," Mike the showman, Stan (and Rocky) the muscle to intimidate Brian. All the songs in Hollywood movies, Mike. Club Kokomo, Mike. I'm sure Mike was on board with Steve Levine because Levine said that's the main reason the band hired him, because of Culture Club's success, and we know who in the band is always focused on success.

But money also ruined Dennis; even though he was a spendthrift, I think it opened up many indulgences that Dennis should have been cut off from. Dennis really started to fall apart after the Brian's Back campaign/POB; that's when the money was coming in like crazy from the tours. Bruce has always been about the business. Carl seemed to accept that mindset by the 1980s; though he did mention to Levine that the BB had an entourage problem. Al seems okay with making a buck, but isn't going to be out there self-promoting like Mike. Brian is Brian.

So what are my fears about this current deal?

The Beach Boys name being a touring band decades after all the original members are deceased
Tacky merchandise/hotel chains like Margaritaville
Whitewashing/oversimplification of the history of the group
Ignoring pretty much everything past 1966
Jukebox musicals, Hollywood biopics, and chain restaurants

I'm not a Beach Boys fan because of the lifestyle. I don't want a Broadway show like Jersey Boys. One, why? Give me the original music. Two, you cannot tell the Beach Boys story without it going dark. But that won't sell, so it'll be something like: Surfin', We're big! Cousin Brian did drugs, no one listens to us anymore, Cousin Dennis did drugs and died, KOKOMO!!!! and rip Cousin Carl. A Beach Boys musical with Murry in the 1st act, Rocky Pamplin in the 2nd act, and Eugene Landy in the 3rd act. And that's just about Brian. 

I think, maybe, the guys want that push for big-name recognition one last time. They all got screwed over in their careers. It wasn't just Brian. They were unfairly judged and their talents were mocked. Their entire career has been pigeonholed as fun in the sun. We all know they didn't pick the name The Beach Boys. They cannot escape their own name and this legacy/lifestyle stuff is going to be just that. Pet Sounds t-shirts at Target and Club Kokomo brand food and drink. Overexposed, commercialized

16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: December 16, 2020, 09:22:09 AM
Geez, I write that I think Goin On should have done better than 80 on the charts and I'm getting attacked. This board is a cancer. Bye.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: December 10, 2020, 07:52:08 PM
Goin' On is probably the best Brian and Mike commercial collaboration during this time period. I don't think it's production is as outdated as some of the song on KTSA. It sounds like commercial Beach Boys. Mike seemed to like performing the song live upon release, but since it went nowhere on the charts, we can probably gather why Mike hasn't played it much since. Has Mike actually played Goin' On since the early 1980s? It seems to be a forgotten Beach Boys song. Have Brian or Mike or Bruce ever commented on Goin' On in retrospect? Of all the song that went nowhere, this one should have went somewhere, at least higher than the 80s
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Bruce Johnston Interview on Old Grey Whistle Test on: December 10, 2020, 07:38:52 PM
Very interesting interview from Bruce about his departure not too long after it happened. I was actually reading some old posts about Bruce leaving during this time yesterday and the various stories given over the years. It really comes down to wanting different things, but not wanting to be enemies. He still spoke fondly of them and was knowledge of the Caribou sessions and was talking about Battle Hymn of the Republic. He definitely had some kind of connection with the guys during this time. Their does seem to be some indication of Bruce and Jack Rieley not liking one another, but the Beach Boys seemed to still like Bruce during his hiatus from the band. Bruce's relationship with the band is very interesting. I am pretty sure he has always viewed the Beach Boys as a business venture but he is very knowledgeable of the band's history and sometimes can be a very strong supporter of Brian's deeper stuff, like Til I Die. Bruce seemed to vibe with Brian when they were in the studio together. Brian definitely respected Bruce as a producer. Brian's role in California Music is interesting. Was he trying to use California Music as an outlet to leave  the Beach Boys? Wasn't he signed to produce a decent amount of singles for them only until his family/the band terminated Brian's contract because he'd spend it on drugs? Squeaky clean Bruce Johnston in the middle of the Beach Boys drug world. Bruce has indicated to a fan, voluntarily, that he left the Beach Boys over drugs. I assume Bruce could somehow look past the cocaine usage and still be friends with the guys. Interesting time and interesting perspectives I'd love to have.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Itís OK on: December 10, 2020, 07:20:19 PM
I was wondering about this tonight on my walk when listening to some tracks from Love You. How much did Carl contribute in the final production of Love You and 15 Big Ones. I think it might have been trying to sweeten up the rough side of Brian's return. I am a fan of Brian's material during this time, but I also recognize why it wasn't popular. I find it hard how Holland pre-Sail On, Sailor was rejected but 15 Big Ones and Love You were accepted. I don't know if it was screw what the product actually is, as long as we can market a Brian Wilson production while the time is hot. I think Carl and Dennis went along with it because they loved Brian. Al was just there because Al was always there. I don't know what Mike felt during this time. 15 Big Ones seems like an album Mike would like; both he and Brian playing oldies again. I give credit to It's OK because it sounds the best like a classic Beach Boys song, classic as in All Summer Long grown up. It hides Brian's rough voice, it's quick, short, commercial, and features a good counter play of their voices. Brian's voice shouldn't be that prominent because it was so rough and sometimes it's weird to hear gruff Brian sing songs like Chapel of Love. I really wonder what was Brian's thought process during this time. He basically was being force to make music during this time and how much of what he contributed as incomplete or bizarre; as a possible passive aggressive way of manipulation. You're putting me back out here against my will so I'm just going to write, record whatever, and call it a day. Brian has given praise for Love You as his favorite Beach Boys album. Contemporary interviews indicate that Brian was really proud of these songs. So then why does Carl came in and contribute so much? Was it a last ditch effort to fix the raw Brian no one was expecting? I have no idea what Carl thought of Love You. Did he ever talk about that time/those songs? Mike referred to it in his autobiography something in the vain of that thing Brian did. Did the guys have a naive belief that putting Brian into a studio would generate big hits? A lot I don't know.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian and Pacific Ocean Blue on: December 08, 2020, 07:31:53 PM
Thanks for doing that dig and giving evidence to the contrary about Brian and POB. Brian also mentioned River Song in the 1976 Bob Harris interview.

We all know Brian won't talk about stuff he doesn't want to talk about and that talking about Dennis is not easy for him. I think that's why he doesn't like Forever because he gets sad. Brian has also said during this time period that he doesn't remember much; he claims he doesn't even remember anything from M.I.U. I'm not sure if that's a cop out answer from Brian because that time brings back bad memories or that he really can not forget this time period due to substance abuse.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Best point in time to break up-if any-to maximize the group's critical standing? on: December 08, 2020, 07:23:58 PM
They should have broke up before Brian's Back; in terms of keeping the legacy of the band near perfect. What we have gotten since Brian's Back is very hit or miss, to say the least. The tarmac incident should have been the last straw, but there was all that money on the table. Greed killed the band; the return to the top for several years in the 1970s corrupted them. It solidified the Beach Boys entourage problem. Obviously Landy gets the most publicity for leeches on the Beach Boys/Brian; but the late 1970s with Brian being guarded by Stan and Rocky is just terrible to think about. Brian was bullied by them for years all in the name of love. It's no wonder Brian relapsed in 1978. So many pressures were put on him with Brian's Back. So many careers depended on Brian magically turning back the clock to sound like 1964. The fact we get 3 Brian heavy albums (not to mention Adult/Child and other bootlegs) from 76-78 is kind of a miracle. Brian was also touring during these years until his relapse in August of 78. Just so much pressure put on him; from Mike, from Landy then Rocky/Stan, from the band, from the labels, etc. So if the Beach Boys ended after Holland, their legacy would be pretty impeccable.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Itís OK on: December 02, 2020, 06:22:03 PM
I have a lot to say about this era but as to "It's O.K."; I think it's an a terrific single and should have been the 1st single released. Ride the momentum of Endless Summer by leading with the best ORIGINAL song. (I will contend "Had to Phone Ya" can be considered a better song, but in terms of A-side, "It's O.K." would win out.) I don't care that it's a lazy write for Brian; it showcases that the Beach Boys could still kick ass in terms of making summer pop music. The first single from them during their comeback should have been an original song. Also, the original "Rock and Roll Music" is not good; the mix on MIC is far superior, which makes it actually kick ass.

This moment itself is a critical juncture for The Beach Boys and I think, it is the ultimate decline for the group as a whole. The return of stardom (and money) is really the true selling out of The Beach Boys. It's a far sad chapter in that it's all based on Brian having to come out into the world and be expected to make records that sounded like 1964. I'm not certain on the details, but if I recall, Brian starts seeing Landy after Marilyn's starts having Landy counsel her at their home. That's October of 1975. I can imagine this point probably the absolute lowest of Brian's mental health. The idea that this magic huckster will cure Brian instantly of all his ailments was ridiculous and a sad part in that no one in the BB circle said, "Hey, wait a minute, this guy seems fishy" You figured after dealing with so many people in the business that they would have had a guard out. Brian's not even a willing patient, openly telling journalists he's only seeing Landy because he didn't want to be sent to a psychiatric hospital. In addition, Brian sometimes appears to be on cocaine during interviews or asking the writer for cocaine. So it's pretty clear that Brian had a ways to go to deal with his mental health issues. Instead, Steve Love wants to cash in and comes up with the Brian's Back campaign. Brian was not clearly back as pretty everyone will admit.

If The Beach Boys wanted to have a comeback album, I think the album should have been called "It's O.K." Kinda tongue-in-check for a comeback album, but the single itself is very radio friendly and the closest the band was going to come to emulate their old hitmaking selves. The entire campaign should have been "It's O.K." and it should have downplayed Brian's Back. The tracks we get on 15 Big Ones are infuriating because, for me at least, I skip over a vast majority of them. The album has its' moments, even the lesser tracks because Brian is experimenting more with Moog Bass and the sounds that would show up on Love You (which I love).
But the band was not going to get much out of Brian during this time period. That's why the originals are not really that original and fairly old. If Brian had to do studio time under therapy for Landy, he was just going to play his favorite songs on synthesizer. He was going to amuse himself. Brian has always loved the oldies sound and Mike always longed for the old days, so naturally he probably was on board with the songs on 15 Big Ones. Carl and Dennis obviously wanted a more original album, but they submitted nothing of their own. This lack of original songs from the Wilson brothers leaves room for covers that amused Brian and terrible songs, like "Everyone's In Love With You." (I like most of Mike's Beach Boys songs, too, but this one where I depart)

The Beach Boys could have had a comeback album without the Brian's Back campaign. Brian could have been involved minimally, but more than previous years. The idea of him touring was another horrible decision in the Beach Boys history. Brian didn't want to be there and again, it seems like he is forced to do tour just how he was forced into the studio. It's all "therapy" even though the pressures on Brian were immense and Brian just didn't want to deal with the spotlight again. He just burned himself out and I think the industry itself really took a toll on him. Brian snapping around 1978 was unfortunately going to happen because his mental health issues had not yet been solved. Add in the pressure of a huge new contract with CBS and touring and writing and therapy and drugs and divorce and the band almost breaking up and alcohol - I can sadly see why Brian relapsed. Then in 1982, the Beach Boys inner circle again forces Brian into seeing Landy. I do feel like Brian had a lot of resentment towards the Beach Boys during all of this. I think that's one reason why the music he wrote during this time is so unrefined. Brian didn't care what the product was; he was just amusing himself regardless of its' hit potential. No wonder why Mike told Brian to stop fucking around after hearing Adult/Child on the heels of Love You. M.I.U. is another attempt to try to help Brian. Let's take Brian away from the temptations of LA to the middle-of-nowhere Iowa and then Cousin Brian can start making the hits again! (In fairness, I really like about half of M.I.U.) Brian could still make great melodies regardless the production. I do wonder how much of his weird songs are out of spite to the guys. An attitude of, "Yeah, you want me to write again so you can avoid bankruptcy? Fine, here's Hey Little Tomboy and you're taking the lead, Mike!" Or maybe the guys and Brian didn't care either. Maybe it was just, let's get more BB on the market while we make money touring. But I do wonder how passive aggressive Brian was during these years. I've read about Brian being a very manipulative person in his own way and I am sure he was trying to manipulate the situation of Brian's Back in some capacity. I think Landy exploited Brian's resentment and then tried to turn it into pure hatred toward his family in the late 1980s so he could fully own Brian.

Anyway, I like It's O.K. and it should have been in the Top 10.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Trump fundraiser in Orange County featuring Mike and 'The Beach Boys' on: October 22, 2020, 08:33:56 PM
Trying to own someone's political stances on a Beach Boys forum by playing what about-ism. Seems kinda counterproductive to the purpose of this site; we should be talking about why Adult/Child and Sweet Insanity aren't officially available.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Trump fundraiser in Orange County featuring Mike and 'The Beach Boys' on: October 19, 2020, 02:16:41 PM
   Luckily, Trump cut off travel to China early on.  
This one always makes us think over here. China - cases 85,685, deaths 4,634; USA - cases 8,428,386, deaths 225,044.

One of those numbers is vastly underreported based on independent research from Wuhan, urn distribution and cremation statistics not to mention almost universal lack of testing and reporting by a Communist government and one of those numbers is vastly overreported based on deaths while testing positive for COVID but not dying from COVID symptoms.   

Quick question, do you also go by the name Q?
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Trump fundraiser in Orange County featuring Mike and 'The Beach Boys' on: October 18, 2020, 11:49:52 AM
Very hard to defend these actions from Mike in 2020. It reminds me of George Harrison's quote about how Mike never really listened to what the Maharishi was teaching. Mike could have easily gone into the sunset and enjoy life, but here we are...
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