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676501 Posts in 27293 Topics by 4033 Members - Latest Member: Then He Kissed Me August 16, 2022, 07:21:02 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Good Vibrations tracking/ mixing studios? on: July 17, 2022, 09:28:14 AM
Pretty sure Brian didn't own an 8-track of his own at that point, but rather rented or leased one. First off, it would have been extreeeemely expensive to buy, as there were likely only a handful in the world at that point (apparently all in the USA, since Abbey Road didn't get a UK-compatible one for almost another two years). Secondly, when they recorded the "Lei'd In Hawaii" shows the following year, it's known they rented a pair of 8-tracks from Heider's - and I believe that initially, at least, that was also the case when they were recording at Brian's house on Bellagio. Not sure if Wally Heider was running a remote recording-related business yet in fall '66, as the first reference I find to his studios is from '67. But he may have been!
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: In Concert Album. How and Why? on: June 11, 2022, 06:10:54 AM
I heard a live version of Don't Talk, I think on You Tube....it was ok, but it didn't go over too well from the sound of it. It was a little boring for them at that time.....I remember when the song ended, Carl announced "That's It"! I know they did I'm Waiting For the Day a couple of times, with Billy Hinsche on lead vocals. I have that recording somewhere.

They did those two songs in '74, and maybe early '75.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows Album on: May 30, 2022, 07:55:12 AM
I got my copy of the new feel flows box set I love it so far. How many of you have a copy of the box up and what is your favorite song

"Behold The Night". Beautiful.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: In Concert Album. How and Why? on: May 27, 2022, 06:25:53 AM
Replying to some specific points you make here:

"The group was past its peak, last few albums had not sold well," - sure, compared to the sales of their early- to mid-'60s output, but much MUCH better than the sales of their late-'60s output and Sunflower. And, the Beach Boys as a live act were experiencing a renaissance at the time - filling or nearly filling smaller halls, and playing bigger outdoor venues compared to the half-filled or less shows of 1968-1970. Jack Reiley's management, the expansion of the live set from a 45-minute "jukebox" approach to a 90-minute or more presentation that included more of the recent album material, and positive reviews in the rock press made the Beach Boys a vital live act once again. Plus, by late '73, nostalgia was starting to become a factor, hence the slow addition of more and more "oldies" into the set - to rapturous applause.

"Yet the group and management decided to spend a lot of money funding the recording at various shows, winter at that, in the days when doing so was probably extremely costly and involved quite a team." - it was quite possibly the record label, not the group or their management, that came with the idea for a live album (anyone know for sure?)...regardless, it would have been the label who paid for the recordings of the winter '72 shows (by renting the Record Plant mobile recording truck for a couple of shows in the NYC area, which was probably rather economical). For the summer '73 shows, which constitute the bulk of the recordings used on the final live double album, the group used their own Brother Studios recording equipment, likely transported by truck along with their other gear - and therefore not all that expensive to move (in similar fashion, they took the home studio gear on the road with them in the late '60s to use as sound reinforcement at live gigs).

"Did someone just say ĎThis band sounds great and we have to record it regardless of any returní?" - to this point, I would say (a) by late '73 the prospects of a new studio album from the band at any point in the near future were not great, so a live album was actually a pretty good "stop gap" idea to keep them in the consciousness of the record-buying public, (b) the returns were comparatively GOOD: the double-live set charted at Number 25 on Billboard and went gold the following year (shortly after Endless Summer did - making it the first gold record for the group on their current label, Warner Bros./Reprise) - compared to highs of Number 29 for Surf's Up, Number 50 for Carl And The Passions, and Number 36 for Holland, and (c) it helped get the group voted "Band Of The Year" by Rolling Stone in 1974 (this honor was based primarily on their live performances, not just the sales of Endless Summer).

All in all, a relative success, and their biggest commercial success of the decade (not counting reissues of '60s recordings) until 15 Big Ones.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: So Tough/ Holland (Box?) Set on: May 12, 2022, 05:27:03 AM
I saw one of those shows in Ď72 with Bruce, although Dennis wasnít there. Even without DW, that was a great show.

Which show?
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: So Tough/ Holland (Box?) Set on: May 06, 2022, 05:59:35 AM
I too really hope we finally get an official release of the BBs playing 'Jumpin Jack Flash'   Cool Cool Cool Cool

I also hope/predict that The Flame's two albums recorded around this time might get included in this boxset, given the involvement from Carl and Desper. It wouldn't even shock me if it's released as "The Beach Boys" like how Dont Worry Bill and Its A New Day eventually were released.


I love this era and I'm so excited for the new box set !!

If you're talking about the live version of "Don't Worry Bill" released as part of a medley with the live "Wonderful" on the Endless Harmony Soundtrack...well, that IS the Beach Boys! Sure, that half of the medley is a Flame song, but a live Beach Boys performance from 1972, including Blondie and Ricky. As for "It's A New Day" - well, it's a Dennis solo track with a Blondie lead. Technically not quite a Beach Boys recording, but not the Flame either.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Why was Carl not replaced? on: May 06, 2022, 05:55:36 AM
Yep...you can't "replace" someone like Carl, with that magical voice, tight guitar chops, and skill at leading the band onstage - all in one. What did happen, though, was an assignment of those roles to various people within the band. Most of his lead vocals were given initially to Matt Jardine, and upon his exit from the band in early 1998, Bruce started singing "God Only Knows" for a few years, then it eventually went to Christian Love, and ultimately to "virtual Carl", a recording of whom was synced up to the live band. Other Carl lead vocals were handed to Chris Famer, Adrian Baker, and eventually Christian Love. His guitar parts were divvied up between David Marks and Phillip Bardowell (the latter of whom was brought on board when Carl became sick, likely so that in the event Carl missed a gig, he could step up and cover those parts). The role of band leader (technically, "musical director") was given to bass player Chris Farmer, and upon his departure years later, current lead guitarist Scott Totten.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: For anybody not knowing it, Holy Man 2019 on: April 21, 2022, 05:33:12 AM
Actually, this version includes Taylor's vocal from 2008, as included on the final track of the Pacific Ocean Blue/Bambu Legacy Edition released that year. Around the same time as that was recorded, Brian May and Roger Taylor of Queen did some extra vocals, instrumentation, and production for an alternate mix. That version remained unreleased until Record Store Day 2019, which is the version described here.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 2021 Copyright Dump -- now gone! on: April 09, 2022, 08:23:40 AM
I would actually love to hear Telephone Backgrounds. Sure, it may be noodling but Iíd love to hear it regardless.

The earlier version of San Miguel is also something Iíd like to listen to. Even if it might not be released since the official version has been out for a while (and as everyone knows San Miguel is one of my favorite songs), this earlier version might be interesting in the sense that it might show just how much Dennis cared about the song when he started working on the official version.

I also realize the early version of Forever was done at the same session as the early version of San Miguel.

Although Badman's book mentions that work on "Forever" started "possibly around" January 9th (the date of an early, aborted attempt at "San Miguel"), I'm reliably told that no tape has been found for an early version of that song - just the officially released version.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Wilson lost album Tornadoes? on: March 22, 2022, 05:23:06 PM
I would like to give a shout out to the YouTube channel called Beach Boys Talk. They interviewed author and musician Jon Stebbins recently. He mentioned something about Dennis recording enough material to record 3 album's in 76-77. We all know about Pacific Ocean Blue and Bambu. But he mentioned another working title called Tornadoes.  Anyone know anything about this? Have songs been circulating from it?

Tornado was a working title for Bambu...another was End Of The Line, according to Carli MuŮoz. Since Dennis had a three-album deal with Caribou, the latter title may have been earmarked for the last of the three. Anyway, there were plenty of reports at the time of him recording all three albums in rapid succession, but as we know the latter two were never completed. There are probably enough unfinished tracks, instrumental-only tracks, alternate versions, alternate mixes...and POB tour rehearsal tapes...to fill up another release, should Mr. Guercio decide to bankroll it. Smiley

For further reading on this topic, I refer you to http://beachboysarchives.com/page11...and http://beachboysarchives.com/page12.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Cabinessence questions on: March 10, 2022, 06:13:54 AM
Lead sheets for Beach Boys songs are generally not very reliable. Some of those that I've seen for the Little Deuce Coupe album have completely misheard lyrics, by whoever was listening to the records and copying down what they heard. "The Border, the Southland, had seen some strange things"... what? Pretty funny stuff. When Tandyn Almer and Stanley Shapiro urged Brian to dig up some old tunes to rewrite, they were shocked at how many chords were completely wrong.

I don't really know how these things were done, and I'd love to learn more about the process that Brian and the boys had to go through, but seeing as this specific copyright was filed after the recording date, I'm guessing someone was just listening to the record and writing down what they heard. A barely audible Dennis part in the chorus was probably not detected.

Not sure if you've seen The Beatles: Get Back, but toward the end of Episode One (on the day George quits the band, IIRC), they are visited by their publisher, the very Murry-like (in appearance, but seemingly a pretty nice guy) Dick James. The Fabs, Glyn Johns, and he get into a discussion on this very topic. Someone (Glyn, I think) says sheet music chords are very often completely wrong, to which Mr. James replies how the process works:  the records are transcribed by someone in his office (who, he says, is very very good, but could still make a mistake now and then), after which the transcriptions are sent to George Martin for review and possible vetoing.  If any mistakes make it past that point, well it's basically down to human error. Not sure if that's how the process worked with Brian's music, but most probably it did, except maybe the transcriptions never made it to Brian, or maybe he just didn't bother with them?

Yes! Absolutely fascinating stuff. The tricky thing is, some of those copyrights were done before release, or even before recording. I Get Around is a weird one, because even though it was made after the recording, the lyrics differ (presumably they're Brian's before Mike edited them), and Brian's intro is used instead of Mike's ("Well there's a million little girls just waitin around..."), so that one must've been Brian playing piano and singing to someone who transcribed it. And in some cases, there were no recordings to go off of, e.g. I'm Waiting For the Day in 1964. I wish we had a better idea of how those sessions went.

Probably one of two scenarios in this case:
(1) Someone (likely Diane, as she was his girl Friday) created a lead sheet with lyrics while Brian played and sang the song, probably using Brian's handwritten lyrics and chord notes as a jumping off point, or
(2) Brian made a demo tape, sent it (or an acetate made from it) to Sea Of Tunes and Murry had someone there transcribe it.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Cabinessence questions on: March 09, 2022, 05:27:52 PM
Lead sheets for Beach Boys songs are generally not very reliable. Some of those that I've seen for the Little Deuce Coupe album have completely misheard lyrics, by whoever was listening to the records and copying down what they heard. "The Border, the Southland, had seen some strange things"... what? Pretty funny stuff. When Tandyn Almer and Stanley Shapiro urged Brian to dig up some old tunes to rewrite, they were shocked at how many chords were completely wrong.

I don't really know how these things were done, and I'd love to learn more about the process that Brian and the boys had to go through, but seeing as this specific copyright was filed after the recording date, I'm guessing someone was just listening to the record and writing down what they heard. A barely audible Dennis part in the chorus was probably not detected.

Not sure if you've seen The Beatles: Get Back, but toward the end of Episode One (on the day George quits the band, IIRC), they are visited by their publisher, the very Murry-like (in appearance, but seemingly a pretty nice guy) Dick James. The Fabs, Glyn Johns, and he get into a discussion on this very topic. Someone (Glyn, I think) says sheet music chords are very often completely wrong, to which Mr. James replies how the process works:  the records are transcribed by someone in his office (who, he says, is very very good, but could still make a mistake now and then), after which the transcriptions are sent to George Martin for review and possible vetoing.  If any mistakes make it past that point, well it's basically down to human error. Not sure if that's how the process worked with Brian's music, but most probably it did, except maybe the transcriptions never made it to Brian, or maybe he just didn't bother with them?
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Cabinessence questions on: March 07, 2022, 05:44:04 AM
I agree with Will that the timbre of Carl's voice (and probably Dennis' too) is more 1968-ish than 1966-ish. Beyond that, and the November 20-22, 1968 mixdown dates, we have nothing concrete.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 2021 Copyright Dump -- now gone! on: March 02, 2022, 05:37:22 PM
Was Princeton 11-13-71 a soundboard or just the same as the boot that's already out there? The version of Caroline, No I have from that show is so magic, would love to hear as a soundboard.

Nope, audience-only. I believe the only '71 soundboard recording in existence* is Syracuse from May of that year, and that's in mono IIRC.
(* - unless you count the radio broadcast of closing night at the Fillmore East from June of that year)
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Squares #8 Beach Boys Concert Pt. 1 is up! on: February 27, 2022, 02:52:27 PM
ESSENTIAL viewing for any beyond-casual Beach Boys fan - or for that matter, any beyond-casual fan of rock 'n' roll.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys on forbes highest paid artists 2021 on: February 10, 2022, 04:39:56 AM
Did the Azoff sale happen in 2020 or 2021?
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary) on: January 29, 2022, 11:10:12 AM
A brief anecdote regarding Don Was, along a similar line to what's being discussed here (identifying mysterious instruments on a track). Back in '94 or '95, he appeared as a guest on Rockline (remember that?). I called in, got through, and asked a question about a particular instrument on one of the tracks on the recent Was-produced Stones album Voodoo Lounge ("You Got Me Rockin'"). The liners credited Keith with "mystery guitar" on that one, so I asked exactly what that was. Don asked what it sounded like to me - which I appreciated, as he wasn't going to just "give" me the answer, but rather seemed to want me to engage my ears and come up with an educated musical guess. My guess was "dulcimer", and he said, "Close - it's a dobro played with a wooden stick" that Keith had found on the grounds.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carol Kaye is at it again! on: January 29, 2022, 06:45:48 AM
Honestly, I would leave her alone. One somewhat kooky old lady isnít going to convince the whole world the BBs didnít play on their records. The AFM contracts speak for themselves.

Not to mention the fact that many of the session tapes, or excerpts thereof, are readily available on bootlegs and copyright-extension releases. Folks can HEAR for themselves the Boys playing instruments on many of their tracks.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beach Boys Live At Paramount NYC 11/26/1993 Unplugged Tour on: January 23, 2022, 07:33:30 AM
Was Ed Carter on bass or guitar for this tour? Do any photos exist from the tour? Though the setlist isn't as extensive, the Lorelei show from earlier that year was also a good one.

Ed played bass on that tour. Unsure on the photos.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Weekend at Bruce's on: January 20, 2022, 04:58:49 PM
Any specific tracks from LA (Light Album) that we can pinpoint to being cut at Shangri-La?

Backing vocals on "Goin' South", plus an unreleased backing track for the outtake "I'm Beggin' You Please".
EDIT: I should have said lead vocal on "Goin' South", too.

Backing track to ďI B Y PĒ?  Anyone heard this, any Brianís lead...? Love the verse..

Have not heard it, and from what I'm told, it's just an instrumental track with no vocals.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Weekend at Bruce's on: January 20, 2022, 05:12:24 AM
Much obliged for you shedding extra light, C-Man. Sounds like Carl made the decision to decamp, albeit briefly, to Shangri-La. The Band may have washed their hands of the studio by this timeóIím uncertain. Love both those groups dearly.

I should have said lead vocal on "Goin' South", too.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Weekend at Bruce's on: January 19, 2022, 04:22:13 PM
Any specific tracks from LA (Light Album) that we can pinpoint to being cut at Shangri-La?

Backing vocals on "Goin' South", plus an unreleased backing track for the outtake "I'm Beggin' You Please".
EDIT: I should have said lead vocal on "Goin' South", too.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Weekend at Bruce's on: January 19, 2022, 05:14:54 AM
I've listened to the song a couple of times and I just don't hear the background vocals. I wonder if I'm listening to the wrong song! LOL

Have you listened all the way through to the end?
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Weekend at Bruce's on: January 18, 2022, 04:27:39 PM
Shangri-la Studios, in Malibu, near Zuma Beach. Previously owned by The Band, I believe (you can see some footage of those guys at that studio in The Last Waltz). Portions of L.A. (Light Album) were recorded there, although the studio is not name-checked in the inner sleeve credits. Glad to see it's still operating.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1971 Brother Records Lp plans and more. From Sept 1971 press conference. on: December 12, 2021, 03:18:49 PM
Aside from the heading, itís íBeachboysí all the way. 🤔
They really had slipped into oblivion by 71 hadnít they?

Yes, but it wouldn't be long before the counterculture realized they were "freeks" now. Smiley
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