gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
675262 Posts in 27255 Topics by 4016 Members - Latest Member: J.krefetz July 05, 2022, 03:41:10 AM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
  Show Posts
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 ... 23
76  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2017 Tour Thread (Pet Sounds - The Final Performances) on: March 13, 2017, 09:45:49 AM
Count me in for the BW love you concert idea!

Me too. In fact count me in for watching Mike's R&R Hall of Fame rant at Brian's place as long as I'm allowed to 'boo' and hiss. Or at least laugh.
77  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Your Top 5 (or whatever) BB/BW books? on: February 23, 2017, 09:10:23 AM
Is it OK to include Whale Music by Paul Quarrington?  It hasn't yet been mentioned. It's fiction but it is so obviously based on Brian and seems amazingly insightful, funny and ultimately moving.
78  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2017 Tour Thread (Pet Sounds - The Final Performances) on: February 16, 2017, 12:11:15 PM
I've added all the new dates, as well as a July 15th Italy show listed at the BBFC website. Can anyone confirm the city and venue for the July 13 Finland show? I was able to find all the others, but not that one.

There is also apparently a three night run in May *2018* in Nashville with the Symphony Orchestra, with Brian and Al (interestingly *not* billed as "Pet Sounds" shows for those who are convinced every show for the next decade will be a PS show).

Sorry I didn't get back to you on that one and thanks to Jukka who did. There's also Wiener Stadhalle,Vienna on July 20th.
79  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2017 Tour Thread (Pet Sounds - The Final Performances) on: February 16, 2017, 05:20:11 AM
Dates in Frankfurt (July 19th) Dublin (July 25th) and Finland (July 13th) have also been added.
80  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: February 08, 2017, 02:39:42 PM
I've always thought that it sounds as if the singer feels enslaved. 'Someone's calling me/To see if I could be/How you could best be like me' suggests to me that he is being asked to be how he was in the past. It isn't hard to imagine that is how Brian might have felt when he was trying to move forwards but was forever being pursued by the memories of the past.

I've always thought of it as Brian's Frodo Song because it reminds me of the part of Lord of the Rings where Frodo is wearing the ring on a chain about his neck and is hardly able to walk because of the weight of it.

I love this song and I'm so sorry that it was never fully completed.
81  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds Overrated? on: February 08, 2017, 02:25:13 PM
Presumptious? Arrogant? Ha, I've been called worse.....

I agree that overrated/underrated are loaded terms. What I genuinely have though is a knee jerk reaction when I hear Sgt Pepper being referred to as 'the greatest album ever'   Same as when anyone tells me Oasis were the best band of the 90s

So, to me, using the term 'overrated' is only ever a reaction to terms like  'best' or ' greatest'

Would you not agree that those could equally be construed as loaded terms?



No offence intended - i've undoubtedly used the word 'overrated' about albums I don't like or don't 'get'. And I do agree that many of these words are loaded and very subjective. The difference though is the implicit criticism of those who have overrated a particular piece of work, whereas 'best' or 'greatest' may be a subjective and even an arguably incorrect statement but there is no such implication.
 

Course I'm not offended Ang! By you or anyone else. I'm enjoying the discussion. Smiley


Thanks! Me too.
82  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2017 Tour Thread (Pet Sounds - The Final Performances) on: February 08, 2017, 09:27:30 AM
Love the new profile Billy! LOL

I had to do a double take, for a second there I thought the real deal was back Computer Smash! hahaha

Me too!  Very funny!

As for Brian performing some other album - I know it isn't going to happen but SMiLE would have been nice - in what would have been its 50th anniversary had it been released in 1967. We haven't heard it live before with Al (and for that matter Matt).

Another SMiLE tour is about the last interesting thing I think Brian & Al can do to fill seats. The "Pet Sounds" cash cow is going to shrivel up if they keep pulling this "final performance" bullshit in the same cities. But I would be incredibly excited by a SMiLE tour, since I was 11 years old and wouldn't have known Brian Wilson if he were my neighbor at the time.  LOL

I wish they'd at least do a mini-suite  during the show as a nod to that 50th anniversary-that-isn't-really.
83  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2017 Tour Thread (Pet Sounds - The Final Performances) on: February 08, 2017, 04:55:40 AM
Love the new profile Billy! LOL

I had to do a double take, for a second there I thought the real deal was back Computer Smash! hahaha

Me too!  Very funny!

As for Brian performing some other album - I know it isn't going to happen but SMiLE would have been nice - in what would have been its 50th anniversary had it been released in 1967. We haven't heard it live before with Al (and for that matter Matt).
84  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds Overrated? on: February 08, 2017, 01:51:06 AM
Presumptious? Arrogant? Ha, I've been called worse.....

I agree that overrated/underrated are loaded terms. What I genuinely have though is a knee jerk reaction when I hear Sgt Pepper being referred to as 'the greatest album ever'   Same as when anyone tells me Oasis were the best band of the 90s

So, to me, using the term 'overrated' is only ever a reaction to terms like  'best' or ' greatest'

Would you not agree that those could equally be construed as loaded terms?



No offence intended - i've undoubtedly used the word 'overrated' about albums I don't like or don't 'get'. And I do agree that many of these words are loaded and very subjective. The difference though is the implicit criticism of those who have overrated a particular piece of work, whereas 'best' or 'greatest' may be a subjective and even an arguably incorrect statement but there is no such implication.
85  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds Overrated? on: February 07, 2017, 08:02:48 AM
Whether the word 'overrated' or 'underrated' is used it suggests that there is a correct place for an album (or anything else!) to be in the scale of things, and those who haven't discovered that placing are in the wrong. Perhaps rating isn't 100% subjective but it depends on personal taste, fashion, and indeed, where you came in, because someone who was alive before Pet Sounds and others were released will have a different perception from someone whose experience of music has dated from the time when it was influenced by those albums. Some of today's music would undoubtedly be different had Pet Sounds not been released - how different, we cannot tell.

It is surely arrogant though to suggest that because any of us is personally unable to appreciate a particular album, that means it is over-rated. I would reserve 'over-rated' to works where you can hear things that are undeniably wrong - for example plagiarism, singing off-key, badly scanned or cliched lyrics and overly predictable melodies.
86  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds Overrated? on: February 06, 2017, 03:32:04 AM
The difference between Pepper and PS is that Pepper is considered to be one of the highlights in a great body of work, while PS is considered to be THE great work in a lifetime of music making. Look at the greatest albums list; they almost always include Abbey Road, Revolver and Rubber Soul. Some include A Hard Days Night and The Beatles. Rarely do any BB's albums besides PS get listed, other than Smile (mostly in the bootleg days when it was the greatest album that never was). I wonder how many of these critics even listened to the other BB's albums?

This brings us to the question 'what if?' What if SMiLE had been completed and finished back in the day? What effect would this have had on Brian's future creativity? What effect would this have had on the opinion of Sgt Pepper? Unfortunately, we can only speculate.

Brian created some beautiful music after Pet Sounds but IMO the non release of SMiLE and a few years later the release of American Graffiti and subsequent release of Endless Summer dragged Brian back like a rip tide into a past he had already outgrown.
87  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds Overrated? on: February 05, 2017, 09:08:38 AM
Pet Sounds is my 2nd favourite album of all time and, in general, I find that terms like "overrated" and "underrated" are lousy ways of evaluating something (evaluate it on its own terms not in relation to what you assume others think about it). But why should I care if someone else doesn't like it?

When we ask if something is 'over-rated' we are really judging the opinions of others as much as the thing itself. We are suggesting that the people who have such an opinion are wrong. So I agree that there are better ways of evaluating Pet Sounds and ones that are less subjective. Has it stood the test of time? The answer to that appears to be 'yes'. Even now, over 50 years since the time of its release, it can sell out concerts all over the world and it is still on sale as an album as well.

Yes, but even that is somewhat subjective because others feel that it is more important for a work of art to be of its time and speak to what is happening now than it is to aim for timelessness. Personally, I am more than a little surprised about what music from my youth (the 90s) has stood the test of time (two decades at least) and I can't say that I think much of it is any good.

Above all I agree with Mr. Desper's assessment of all this, verbatim.

Usually the talking heads and pundits try to state a case that something is "overrated" with the goal of knocking something down in order to boost another something up. And it usually if not always exposes more about the person making that attempt than it does add in some way to the dialogue.

But in terms of art being of its time, if that is applied to other prominent examples of albums from the period 1966-67-68, that notion would shatter attempts to diminish the legacy and impact of the Sgt. Pepper album. In the past decade or so there have been attempts to declare Pepper "overrated" if not diminish it entirely, yet if the standard involves a work of art being "of its time", Pepper really was that big of a release in its time and it really was that much of a groundbreaker in terms of kicking down the doors and brick walls in terms of what could be possible on a rock album and how that related to the other facets of pop groups making albums and how those albums were delivered to the public.

So essentially, the "of its time" point would make attempts to lift great albums like "Forever Changes" or "Piper At The Gates..." over and above an album like Pepper basically moot since no matter how much "better" opinions might put either one or others comparative to Pepper artistically or musically, nothing in 1967 really resonated with both the public and the musician/artist/pop culture community as much as Pepper.

And in terms of legacy coming from years of reassessment, rediscovery, and discovery in general, Pet Sounds is in very exclusive company in terms of the album continuing to grow in stature as each successive generation of listeners finds it on their own.

Perhaps it truly was ahead of its time, yet it was always there waiting for people to discover when they were ready and open enough to do so.

I think Pet Sounds was both of its time and ahead of its time, which is why it made a difference THEN (at least in Europe at first) and is still appreciated today. I'm not sure if that makes it timeless - part of its charm is that it is so of its time. It's impossible to be completely objective - for me, Pet Sounds has some things in common with 'coming of age'. Brian's work became more daring and the very album starts with a look to the future but ends with a glance back at the past.
88  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds Overrated? on: February 05, 2017, 08:16:58 AM
Pet Sounds is my 2nd favourite album of all time and, in general, I find that terms like "overrated" and "underrated" are lousy ways of evaluating something (evaluate it on its own terms not in relation to what you assume others think about it). But why should I care if someone else doesn't like it?

When we ask if something is 'over-rated' we are really judging the opinions of others as much as the thing itself. We are suggesting that the people who have such an opinion are wrong. So I agree that there are better ways of evaluating Pet Sounds and ones that are less subjective. Has it stood the test of time? The answer to that appears to be 'yes'. Even now, over 50 years since the time of its release, it can sell out concerts all over the world and it is still on sale as an album as well.
89  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds Overrated? on: February 04, 2017, 04:32:41 AM
I'm still sticking with 'no' because the question wasn't 'Did Brian (or the Beach Boys) do anything as good or better?' but 'Is Pet Sounds over-rated?'. I love lots of Brian's work, early stuff too but particularly music written from 1966 onwards. Friends was beautiful and I love the Sunflower album (though this really was more of a group effort). After this, the quality of the tracks on the albums were more variable so whilst they contained some great music there were less strong tracks too.

The whole of the Pet Sounds album is strong IMO and it marked a real shift for Brian. There had been hints of what was to come but with Pet Sounds Brian took a giant step into the future and others followed in those footprints.
90  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds Overrated? on: February 04, 2017, 02:57:45 AM
No.
91  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's currently in the studio... on: February 02, 2017, 04:52:54 AM
A source that I trust implicitly but that I can not name, has told me what the song is.  This source has never been wrong before.  The song is a new duet for a new album.  The song in question is written and sung by Brian and Andrew G. Doe called "Shitweasels and Fuckwits."

I can see who wrote the lyrics. Who the song is about is left to us to guess....

I agree about the 'Like' button. I really enjoyed this one.
92  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: AGD missing, the future of this forum on: February 01, 2017, 01:43:27 AM
So glad to see both Desper and Ang back!  I've been a bit MIA lately due to being overwhelmed by things that belong in the Sandbox, but I'm happy to see this place vital.  I don't think this has been an AGD thread for awhile, but more about inclusiveness, as long as it's honest.  I suspect my politics don't match Desper's these days, but I really don't care as long as we're discussing music.

Here's the thing in our faces, particularly as Americans here...do we want entertainment in place of the truth?  I think both can happen if we hold ourselves to integrity.  I watched Mr. Desper in the studio and at the board at concerts in the late 60's/early 70's and he is frikkin' brilliant.  He tells the truth when he speaks to this. Ang is a remarkably smart true fan of not only Brian Wilson, but any expression of brilliance in the arts.  Their commentary is truly appreciated.

As far as AGD, I'll leave it to the group to work that out.  I used to enjoy chatting with him, nearly always non-BB related.  I haven't heard from him in awhile. I tend to wonder why... ;-)  Have fun with that one...

Thanks so much for your words Debbie. On the occasions I don't post for awhile and then come back, I wonder why I did so because it nearly always improves my day. Even the arguments can be interesting!  And I agree, the thread seems to have gone beyond being just about AGD's absence from this message board but that's typical too - you throw a pebble in the stream and the ripples tend to move outwards.
93  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: AGD missing, the future of this forum on: January 31, 2017, 04:54:52 AM
Welcome back, Ang!
This thread has been very useful after all: it contributed to "bringing back" two of the most valuable posters a music forum could have: Stephen Desper and Ang Jones.
That's what I call the Power of Truth. Truth is never useless. Smiley

Thanks so much thorgil although Stephen Desper is far more valuable a poster than I am.  You are too IMO and I'm not just writing that because of your compliment either - your posts are unfailingly thoughtful and interesting.

I certainly don't blame OSD for being critical of Mike - sometimes I try to forgive and forget Mike's behaviour but then Mike does another interview or book and it's back to square one. It is a challenge to forgive repeat offenders even when we know there are good aspects to their characters as well as bad.
94  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: AGD missing, the future of this forum on: January 31, 2017, 03:03:06 AM
AG(Do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do) Doe.

I wonder how he feels about being SS-less now?
95  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: AGD missing, the future of this forum on: January 30, 2017, 08:07:22 AM
Credit where it is due. I agree that AGD is very knowledgable on the subject of the Beach Boys. That is undeniable. Not infallible - no-one is.
96  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: AGD missing, the future of this forum on: January 30, 2017, 07:46:35 AM
No Ang...it didn't' change for the worse'.  Your posts did, though, seem somehow deflated of their original enthusiasm and excitement... the 'feel' you used to include.  It was if you had lost your on-line 'joie de vivre'.  Because I had become fed up with the endless bickering and fighting over many things which really had nothing to do with Brian or his music [and because I had a full time project...in terms of prepping, applying and filing in an attempt to acquire a brand new license to own and operate a radio station] so I stepped away.  Over those 30 months or so...THINGS changed.  [some of them for you...]

No apology due ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... from YOU.





Thanks for that Add Some. There have been dispiriting moments for many of us I suppose - indeed we are too often focused on the negative side of things which Brian Wilson himself seems to manage not to do as often as some of his fans.

Don't forget he also said he found out where Ang Jones lives and not to be surprised if something happened to her.
That's pretty heavy stuff, the worst among his offences imho. That guy is the worst thing that could happen to a fanbase.

Classic example of the hammer hitting the nail squarely on the head.   Rock!

And THORgil is good with the accurate wielding of hammers so nice metaphor!
97  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: AGD missing, the future of this forum on: January 30, 2017, 05:26:29 AM
Welcome back Ang! Cool

Thanks SMiLE Brian!

AGD of course is only missing from here. He is still in evidence elsewhere so hopefully the large number he has offended in the past won't be helping police with their enquires.
98  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / The Sandbox / Re: AGD missing, the future of this forum on: January 30, 2017, 04:59:40 AM
Don't forget he also said he found out where Ang Jones lives and not to be surprised if something happened to her.

I think Ang could take care of herself even though doekoko has a brown belt in waddling.

Thanks for the vote of confidence - I'm fine so far and not scared of AGD. He knows where I live because many many years ago he borrowed various news cuttings and I had to write a stern letter to get him to return them which he did by post. Having made the comments he has made on a public forum he would have to be extremely stupid  to take matters any further!

Thanks to those who have expressed concern - the good outweigh the bad on most of the message boards including this one.

I hope my demeanour hasn't changed for the worst! Please accept my apologies if so.

99  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Re: Rolling Stone review on: September 27, 2016, 03:12:00 PM
Thanks, Ang. I couldn't read it through a load of pop-up sh*t so I've copy-and-pasted it here: 

Beach Boys Brian Wilson, Mike Love Tell All in Starkly Different Memoirs
New books from both singer and songwriter offer opposing takes on band's legend
By Rob Sheffield


The Beach Boys saga has always haunted the American imagination because of the family bond at the heart of it: the three Wilson brothers tortured genius Brian, shy Carl, madman drummer Dennis and their abusive dad, thrown together in a surf band with their flashy cousin. Part of the poignancy is Brian Wilson versus Mike Love two California boys who never should have been in the same room, much less trapped together for life. Wilson and Love both have excellent new memoirs, telling the story from opposite perspectives. Since Beach Boys fans are fiercely tribal hardcore Brianistas dismiss Love as a mercenary clod riding his cousins' coattails both books are musts, not to mention guaranteed argument-starters.

I Am Brian Wilson is soulful and earnest like spending quality time with a gentle sage with an endearingly erratic attention span. It jumps chaotically all over the timeline. Wilson is heartbreakingly blunt about his mental breakdowns and suffering at the hands of his father. He has startling insights into the music, as with the obscure early tune "Don't Hurt My Little Sister," which comes back to haunt him in middle age: "Maybe it's because it was a song about protection and I felt scared that no one was protecting me." Through it all, he remains a frightened kid who connects to the world mainly through music. "Songs are out there all the time, but they can't be made without people," he writes. "You have to do your job and help songs come into existence."

As for his singer well, as Wilson writes, "Mike had a funny way of looking at things." Good Vibrations is exactly the Mike Love book you'd hope for he revels in his image as one of rock's unrepentant assholes. As he notes with pride, "For those who believe that Brian walks on water, I will always be the Antichrist." He doesn't care if you like him or not what he cares about is settling scores and nursing grudges. Good Vibrations is one of the most gleefully petty rock memoirs ever it ranks up there with Morrissey's Autobiography when it comes to the airing of grievances.

Love boasts about how much money he made suing Wilson for defamation the last time he published a memoir, though he insists he wouldn't stoop to actually reading the whole book. He's had it up to here with "Brian's hagiographers and sycophants" he sees himself as the band's leader. Most rock memoirs get boring when they start talking lawsuits, but for Love this is the surf's-up part: Litigation is his happy place. Depositions are his Kokomo, cross-examinations his Aruba. One highlight comes when he's choosing a lawyer to sue Wilson: "His willingness to help me was a revelation, but we still needed to do our astrological vetting." Fortunately, Love's astrologer approves the lawyer because "in the twelfth House of Justice he has an exalted Jupiter."
The constant family betrayals add up at one point, the 36-year-old Dennis impregnates one of his teenage daughter's friends. She happens to be Love's 17-year-old daughter. (They split just a few months after their wedding, before Dennis drowned.) In a depressing scene, Brian attends Love's wedding, where Carl sings "God Only Knows"; Love's best man is the lawyer who's just deposed Brian for 17 days.
If you were hoping either book would make you feel warm and fuzzy about the Beach Boys well, wouldn't it be nice? But neither is watered-down product. Both are full of pain. For Love, the injustice is how the world still feels so much affection for Wilson in all his fragile humanity. I saw a Wilson show this summer where he spaced on the second verse of "I Just Wasn't Made for These Times." He chuckled and said, "Oh, I forgot the words." The crowd sang it for him until he figured out where to come in for the chorus. It could have been a pitiful moment; instead, it was suffused with warmth. That's a moment I won't forget there isn't a moment like it in Love's book. How can such troubled men create such beautiful music? God only knows.



Thanks John K. Sorry I didn't do this myself!
100  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Rolling Stone review on: September 27, 2016, 11:50:53 AM
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/brian-wilson-mike-love-tell-all-in-beach-boy-memoirs-w441962
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 ... 23
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.867 seconds with 21 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!