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675262 Posts in 27255 Topics by 4016 Members - Latest Member: J.krefetz July 05, 2022, 02:24:30 AM
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51  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Does Mike Love realize he is despised by millions of fans? on: August 09, 2017, 07:53:00 AM
To me the most irritating things about Kokomo are: a) Mike going on about it all the time as if it's a big personal success story when several were involved with the writing of it, Carl's voice was a huge plus in its favour and it had the enormous advantage of being used in a film.  And b) Mike's party piece atlas lyrics featured. He's done this so many times it is so predictable. Talk about doing it again!
52  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Does Mike Love realize he is despised by millions of fans? on: August 08, 2017, 12:12:21 PM
An open forum means that you have the right to express your opinion but those who don't agree with it have a right to respond in turn and if they can back up their argument better than you can, then you are not going to convince anyone that you are right.

That's true, and all well and good.  And I know there are certain people I'm not going to be able to sway due to the biases on here.  

Maybe I don't make my points well enough, I don't know.  But, I sure make them better than....

 w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t!

Sway what? Again, the 2005 lawsuit says all you need to know about read that sh*t then act surprised there is a bias against Mike?? You guys who defend Mike on filledeplage levels do more harm than good because you create situations on these forums where Mike’s shittiness goes on full display because you guys act like this bias against Mike is founded in a fairytale world. I mean seriously, you claim you’ve read all the nonsense Mike has done over the years but you don’t allow it to be a factor in your equation as to why people dislike Mike.

We just need to listen to the music and have fun fun fun, and then this toxic forum wouldn’t be full of people that an “interested party” wants the fuckin home address of.

Like I've said many times before, I think there is some very valid criticism towards Mike, and the 2005 lawsuit is one of them.  

But, what I don't get in the constant mashing of teeth everytime the man's name comes up.  I'll never understand it, and frankly, I don't know why I waste the energy in posting my opinion on that matter.  

Rab, I'll give you credit.  You willfully participated in the thread Nate started and listed some on your favorite Mike moments on record.  But, we didn't get one page into that thread before it started to veer off.   And stuff like that is why this board is often viewed as "toxic" or "Mike bashing."  

You know that's bullshit, KDS. The reason why this board is often viewed as "toxic" or "Mike bashing" is because there were some vocal and/or prominent interests repeating that kind of bullshit ad nauseum after they tried and failed to take control over  this forum to where people acting as moderators would have to be in a position to make judgements on which posts or posters were "toxic" and make such posts a ban offense, leading up to scrubbing the "toxic" posters off the board entirely. And not ironically most of it if not all of it was focused on people critical of Mike Love.

It was one of the most jaw-droppingly hypocritical examples of the pot calling the kettle black. They failed, and will continue to fail in that pursuit.

Best advice? Stick to the facts. Repeating a lie enough times until it becomes accepted as the truth may work in some circles, but with people who have a little more common sense, that tactic usually serves to expose the bullshitters.

Just sayin'.  Beer

If you say so, GF.  I just call 'em like I see 'em.   And some of the stuff written in response to people who dared say anything negative about NPP or BW concerts in general makes me feel otherwise.  Or some of the stuff that was said to me back in January when I said I voted for Donald Trump and would be OK with Mike and Bruce playing his inauguration (to be fair the poster who lashed out at me did apologize). 

Digressing to another subject - the responses to criticism of NPP/BW concerts - shows a weakness in your argument. It's like when people use what is called The Golden Rationalisation: 'Everybody does it' to justify bad behaviour. You may accuse individual posters of hypocrisy if they take offence at any criticism of Brian whilst being unduly critical of Mike but IMO there is a big difference between criticising the quality of something, which is very subjective, and something like the 2005 lawsuit.
53  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Does Mike Love realize he is despised by millions of fans? on: August 08, 2017, 10:20:40 AM
An open forum means that you have the right to express your opinion but those who don't agree with it have a right to respond in turn and if they can back up their argument better than you can, then you are not going to convince anyone that you are right.
54  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Does Mike Love realize he is despised by millions of fans? on: August 08, 2017, 04:49:22 AM
Didn't Mike once say that Brian watered his legend every day? Well, Mike sure as hell waters his bad reputation. It isn't just something nasty he did once long ago. He continues to do and say things that reinforce the bad opinions some of us have about him.
55  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: One of our own needs us on: August 05, 2017, 04:04:31 AM
Hope you continue to feel much better until you are fully recovered Billy. Very best wishes from the UK. Perhaps I'll get to Glastonbury (Somerset is 'Land of the Summer People' and it sure will be that tonight with Brian playing). It has the reputation of being a sacred place - I'll put in a word there if I go.
56  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What are the top books/resources ever written/produced about the Beach Boys? on: July 31, 2017, 08:02:33 AM
Where would one be able to see session sheets?

I believe there are some in Look Listen Vibrate SMiLE by Domenic Priore...
57  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What are the top books/resources ever written/produced about the Beach Boys? on: July 31, 2017, 06:41:10 AM
There are quite a few. The Beach Boys and the California Myth by David Leaf.  Inside the Music of Brian Wilson by Philip Lambert. The next one is fiction but so obviously based on Brian and so insightful - Paul Quarrington's Whale Music.

These are all particularly about Brian Wilson of course....
58  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What does Mike want? on: July 15, 2017, 04:08:36 AM

I think part of him really does miss the hell out of the old days and would love nothing more than to travel back in time to when The Beach Boys were beginning to make it. As this isn't possible I think he's bitter about where life took his cousin, friends, family, over the years. He doesn't know how to express this irritation methinks, so he takes it out passive aggressively when he can. He takes it out in force during lawsuit season.

What does Mike want? My best guess is he wants to be back on the stage with Carl, Dennis, David, Al, Brian 1961. That's why he loves touring: these days he looks out and sees singing happy people every night, fans that adore his songs. Fans that don't get caught up in the cliques and sides, just people out there who love the music. He wants to make music with Stamos and McGrath, music with autotune so hopefully young people can get into this music and go to his concerts. He can't stand the depressing life suite because it reminds him of what he hates about life...which is why he wants to write with Brian to bring out some more positivity perhaps.

Very insightful observation.  Yearning for the past, the innocence, the camaraderie, but not being able to go back in time, creating bitterness and resentment, and maybe even some regrets.

I think rab's thoughts indeed make a lot of sense. I will amend the ideas to also suggest that whatever it is from the past that Mike might be yearning for, it's still his *idealized* version of it. One of Mike's main deals, in my opinion, is that he doesn't want to be told what to do. He'll collaborate with Brian, but only when he wants to and on his terms. He'll be on stage with Al Jardine, but only if Al stays in his place and doesn't try to dictate or maybe even suggest anything.

So when I say, for instance, that Mike clearly would rather be on stage with McGrath and Stamos and Brian and Al, I don't mean so much that it's a rejection of those actual people. I think Mike would love to have all of the surviving BBs on stage (or go back in time to where they're all on stage) alongside him, as long as he's not doing everything by committee. He wanted/wants to write with Brian still to this day he says, but it's his idealized version of writing with Brian, one that is unrealistic. There's no compromising.

To add to this. Mike has been openly vocal about the control Brian has been under all his life: whether it be Brian being controlled by Murry, controlled by street drugs, controlled by hipster friends in the 60s, controlled by Landy, controlled by prescription medication, controlled by "handlers" in current times, controlled by Joe Thomas. The only control that is okay is if Mike gets to be alone in a room with Brian.

Here is Mike, vocally wanting an uncompromising piece of the pie that all the controlling forces in Brian's life wanted in the past even though he complains about the uncompromising control Brian has been under his whole life....he just doesn't see the ridiculous irony in this.

Astute. I also think that Mike likes to believe that he had a more special relationship with Brian than anyone else and resents those he believes took Brian from him. He's a bit like a jealous ex wife, taking her ex husband to the cleaners for every penny she can get and blaming the 'other women' she believes 'stole' him from her.
59  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What does Mike want? on: July 12, 2017, 01:29:37 AM
I agree with Add Some on this one. Mike may have been an important part of it once but that was a long time ago and unfortunately Mike has not tried to move with the times but just wants to 'do it again' and again and again. I do not believe anything meaningful would be achieved by another reunion and in fact I hope there isn't one.

Realistically these guys won't be on the road for too much longer.  Maybe Brian will write more music - I certainly hope so. He doesn't need Mike for that and will have more artistic freedom without the sort of constraints Mike would be likely to apply.
60  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What does Mike want? on: July 11, 2017, 08:25:16 AM
Didn't Mike also dislike the Til I Die lyric  (probably Brian's own best lyric) because he found it too depressing? His comment about Pisces writing from inspiration and Geminis from desperation is laughable. Even in the songs on which they collaborated, even the ones with the best of Mike's lyrics, IMO the level of talent required to produce the lyric didn't come close to the talent needed for the music. Some of Mike's comments don't just show Mike's jealousy but seem to indicate his lack of understanding of Brian's music.

61  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson: The Second Wave on: July 06, 2017, 06:57:15 AM
Thanks JK and Hey Jude!

Undecided yet - I've probably seen a lot of the stuff on it!
62  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Brian Wilson: The Second Wave on: July 06, 2017, 01:28:38 AM
Anyone know anything about this 2 DVD box set (available in the UK from July 14th)?

It's about Brian in the 70s and beyond.
63  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The biggest revelation about Sunshine Tomorrow.. Brian's level of involvement.. on: June 30, 2017, 10:54:49 AM
I know it sounds pretty obvious but something that these outtakes and clearer mixes of this period reveal is that despite the collapse of SMiLE, Brian was still the same mastermind behind the Smiley Smile and Wild Honey sessions. In fact when you actually look at it, he is far and away the most involved member, still in SMiLE mode so to speak.

I know to many of you the answer to that is 'well, duh!'

But seriously guys, this changes all the myths about what the public assumed happened to the Beach Boys post-Smile. Now it's available for the public to hear with their own ears that Brian as he was during the Pet Sounds-Smile was still the same musical genius afterwards. The main ingredient he changed was switching from the session musicians back to the beach boys, so to speak. The innovation is there for everyone to see. You can hear him ALL OVER THIS THING.

So in a sense that makes this not only the most important Beach Boys release since the SMiLE Sessions but possibly the 2nd most important Beach Boys archival release to date. (Not counting the Pet Sounds Sessions for the simple fact that everyone knew it was an astonishing record)

God bless Brian, god bless the Beach Boys. God bless Mark, Alan, Capitol, Howie and everyone involved.

Selfish as it sounds, it desperately makes me want to see whats next in store, a Friends-20/20 release? The Sunflower Sessions? Shocked

Haven't heard all of it yet but I so agree with these comments. Some of the Smiley Smile material makes me feel that we can kind of flesh out SMiLE as it might have been had it been released back then.
64  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love \ on: May 20, 2017, 07:09:23 AM
For some reason, all of a sudden Mike seems okay doing Al's songs. He did "California Saga" for the first time *ever* without Al a few months back, and now "Lady Lynda"? It's just weird, especially in the case of the latter having one of the backing guys sing a love song about Al's ex-wife. It just feels a little more like weird expensive karaoke. It would be kind of like Al doing "Looking Back With Love" in concert, and having like Tom Jacobs sing it or something.

I get it, Mike's just treating these songs as "Beach Boys" back catalog songs. One would hope Mike all of a sudden doing Al's songs means some sort of admiration from Mike towards Al rather than, say, passive-aggressive antagonism. But doing his songs really isn't statistically/logistically weird. But viscerally it's just odd, and certainly Mike has tended especially over the last 20 years to have a rather weird, antagonistic and dismissive attitude about Al, so that's probably part of what makes it weird. But yeah, I'm kinda viscerally with Bossaroo on this one. Leave Al's songs alone. He has so few that he wrote without input from anyone else in the group.

This *does* highlight how Brian's tour should give Al a few more slots (and/or Al should finally do some deep-cut solo gigs). Mike's band seemingly does more Al songs than Al does himself in Brian's show.

Or Al could do some Mike songs. But I hope doesn't!
65  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love \ on: May 20, 2017, 06:46:35 AM
Mike doing "Lady Lynda" is a bit like when he popped up doing "Surf's Up" in the UK a couple years ago. Both songs are songs very strongly identified in one way or another with something and/or someone that Mike has been antagonistic towards in the past, and in both cases he also had band members poached from Brian's band singing them.

I think from the fan perspective you either immediately "get" why that's viscerally and contextually off and why it leaves a bad taste in one's mouth (and different from Mike having his guys sing "I Can Hear Music" or "Darlin'" or whatever), or you don't get it and it's all good and five different Beach Boys doing 100 different songs in five different bands is cool.

Another thing that is weird about it: post-Lynda breakup, Al clearly has had some issues with the song being sung with its original lyric, which must obviously be due to some difficult feelings about singing specifically about an ex (and her name, specifically). So even though the song was somewhat of a hit, and somewhat beloved to the point that the band continued playing it occasionally, it was surely Al who made the decision to change the name and lyric to something he felt more comfortable that the song would be presented as. Al's prerogative, which again, must have been based on some difficult feelings.

It seems kinda odd for that one particular song to be sung by the touring band again, under its original name, without the input of Al. I don't think Mike called Al on the phone to ask if it was ok. It would be like if Mike, on a current tour, sang Til I Die with the "happy" lyrics he tried to force on the song in 1971 - a very specific song that has deep emotional ties to one other member, and the lyrics of which were of a touchy, personal nature, where only the other (non-Mike) member should be making those types of calls about the song's presentation.  I know some people may say that Brian changing the lyrics of Good Vibrations on BWPS is somehow equivalent to this, but really it isn't. Those weren't deeply personal lyrics where Mike mentioned an ex-spouse by name, and Brian decided to bring them back.

I'll put it this way: if it were pre-1998, while Al was still in the band, I don't think he'd be cool for the song to be played with the original lyric being sung simply if another band member jumped in for that one lyric to squeeze in the "Lynda" part. I don't really see how this is much different, even though he's not in the band anymore (and of course, that wasn't his choice either!)

All that said, I can't say I'm unhappy that deeper cuts are being played by any touring faction. This one just seems weird and particularly uncool, considering Al's sacking.

I can imagine how Mike would feel if the apparently very personal Pisces Brother was performed by Brian's band. But yeah, that would not happen ever.

Very good points IMO. I also agree with Billy's remark: "I will say this...I wish Brian was doing a Wild Honey tour."

66  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: May 11, 2017, 07:19:31 AM
I like it and I'm glad it was released but the one that really deserved all the hype was IMO My Love Lives On.  To me this is by far the better song and we'd heard nothing about it in advance. My Love Lives On was like a message from beyond from Dennis - one person told me he'd been listening on headphones whilst out running and had to sit down because he was so moved by the music.
67  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Idaho Statesman article ... on: May 07, 2017, 03:06:21 AM
This one is IMO insightful and sensitively written.

"He deserved credit just for walking onto the stage at the Morrison Center. But he did much more than that. He overcame his demons, made his audience feel young again, gave us goosebumps and moved us to tears. If that isn’t overcoming adversity, nothing is."

Read more here:
68  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Wilson's Bambu is getting a vinyl release for RSD '17. on: April 21, 2017, 04:50:03 AM
I noticed that they had it on too... for a price. £72.75 for the vinyl.
69  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Brian doing new recording of Love and Mercy.... on: April 16, 2017, 08:53:51 AM
... with Kabul street children.

..." like finding a yellow flower in the rubble..."

Full credit to Cordola whose idea it was: " “I told the kids our mission is to respond to every act of hate and rage with a song of love and hope.”

You may need to give some details like email to read the whole article but you can do so without paying anything.
70  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beach Boys - Love (fanmix album) on: April 16, 2017, 08:51:32 AM
I absolutely loved it! Thanks so much for posting the link.
71  Smiley Smile Stuff / Welcome to the Smiley Smile board / Re: Hello from Argentina! on: April 14, 2017, 08:28:25 AM
I also recommend Richard Adams' Girl in a Swing if you can find it (out of print). It is erotic in parts but incorporates some myth for a very strange but compelling story. The tale begins in a real 18th century place in Newbury that - amazingly - they pulled down (in real life) to put up a McDonalds. There's a film based on it too.
72  Smiley Smile Stuff / Welcome to the Smiley Smile board / Re: Hello from Argentina! on: April 14, 2017, 06:10:08 AM
Watership Down is not just a book but a real place, just a few miles from where I live. So welcome from Baughurst too!

73  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beach Boys - Love (fanmix album) on: April 08, 2017, 04:12:37 AM
I'm only sorry that it took me so long to find out about it (for which I have no-one to blame but myself).

Amazing. I love it.
74  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2017 Tour Thread (Pet Sounds - The Final Performances) on: April 06, 2017, 04:07:56 AM
RRYB - Row, row your boat?
75  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Songs That Would Have Been Better With Different Lyrics on: March 15, 2017, 03:11:39 AM
I like Jack's words a TON.  Music was going through major and important change and transition.  The Beach Boys went from being castaways and out and out squares in clown suits to being seen and received as cool...thanks in LARGE part to Jack's guidance and assistance.  Of course moving the guy with the roll of socks in his pants away from the front of the stage...and out of the 'creative' seat beside the piano went a LONG way in helping to correct the obviously out-of-date image and thinking.  When that switched back into being 'phase 2' the erosion would slowly and assuredly finish off the whole presentation.

And while we're at it...let's not overdo giving chrome dome too much credit for what he did to help lay the foundation.  He only had a hand in being the one and only lyrics guy on 3 songs each with the Surfin' Safari and Surfin' USA albums.  If Murry [ah the 'great' Meddlin' Murry] didn't dislike Gary Usher as much as he apparently did we might very well have had FAR fewer 'lovely' lyrics needing a rewrite.

I do agree with 'El Capitain' though regarding there being way too many 'OLD GEEZERS leering at young girls from their walkers' songs...even on TWGMTR.  Brian's solo catalogue suggests that the influence on those senile 'salivators' came from some other attending old fart.

I'd agree with all of this and add one that has always irritated me because it really doesn't scan well: When Girls Get Together. I don't know if the music was written first, the lyric, both together but whoever's fault, the lyric doesn't doesn't fit (as well as being clumsy in many places 'They don't waste time on things like weather and stuff'.....  It could have been much better with different words.
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