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678391 Posts in 27405 Topics by 4045 Members - Latest Member: reecemorgan February 04, 2023, 04:58:34 AM
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9801  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Bad news re POB/Sony Germany on: June 23, 2008, 06:57:01 PM
...more are being pressed, orders are being filled...and Grammy buzz is in full swing.

Jon, I'm sure it's early for this, but has it been looked into in terms of what grammy awards the POB reissue would be eligible for? I think there is a category for something along the lines of "Best Archival Historical Release"; I think the "Pet Sounds Sessions" boxed set may have been nominated in that category back in 1998 or whenever. So I think the POB reissue would probably qualify for that sort of category. But are there any other categories? I suppose the previously unreleased material is "new", and therefore could qualify for song of the year, best rock vocal and other awards for individual songs, but probably not in any of the main original album categories as POB was already issued in 1977, and thus the entire package is not new material. I suppose it might also qualify in some of the more technical categories like best engineering and whatnot, although again I don't know which if any of those type of awards pertain to releases with all "new" music.
My friend Howie Edelson tells me that besides the obvious "Reissue of the Year" it could also be eligible in many of the following categories...
BEST ROCK INSTRUMENTAL PERFORMANCE
BEST SOLO ROCK VOCAL PERFORMANCE
BEST ROCK PERFORMANCE BY A DUO OR GROUP WITH VOCAL
BEST INSTRUMENTAL COMPOSITION
BEST INSTRUMENTAL ARRANGEMENT
BEST RECORDING PACKAGE
BEST BOXED OR SPECIAL LIMITED EDITION PACKAGE
BEST ALBUM NOTES
BEST ENGINEERED ALBUM, NON-CLASSICAL
PRODUCER OF THE YEAR, NON-CLASSICAL
BEST REMIXED RECORDING, NON-CLASSICAL

Interesting. I'm thinking it has a better chance at some of the latter categories on this list. I'm thinking there's probably too much "modern" competition for things like Solo Rock Vocal or Duo/Group Vocal (how would a Dennis release quality for that category? I suppose the track with him and Carl?). I could definitely see it competing in those latter categories, especially "Recording Package", "Boxed/Limited Edition", "Album Notes" , and whatever other sort of archival reissue-type awards are out there.

I'm thinking, doesn't the record label usually push/lobby/campaign for grammies on behalf of their releases? I'm thinking they may even have to be the ones to submit it for consideration? I'm not sure how that works, but since this release has done so well, I imagine Sony/Legacy would be more inclined to do those things if needed and helpful.
9802  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Bad news re POB/Sony Germany on: June 23, 2008, 03:15:39 PM
...more are being pressed, orders are being filled...and Grammy buzz is in full swing.

Jon, I'm sure it's early for this, but has it been looked into in terms of what grammy awards the POB reissue would be eligible for? I think there is a category for something along the lines of "Best Archival Historical Release"; I think the "Pet Sounds Sessions" boxed set may have been nominated in that category back in 1998 or whenever. So I think the POB reissue would probably qualify for that sort of category. But are there any other categories? I suppose the previously unreleased material is "new", and therefore could qualify for song of the year, best rock vocal and other awards for individual songs, but probably not in any of the main original album categories as POB was already issued in 1977, and thus the entire package is not new material. I suppose it might also qualify in some of the more technical categories like best engineering and whatnot, although again I don't know which if any of those type of awards pertain to releases with all "new" music.
9803  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Re: Brian and Macca 1967 pic on: June 16, 2008, 03:28:01 PM
Just broke out my "Recording the Beatles" book to make sure I was getting the mixing desk right, and that indeed appears to be one of EMI's "REDD" desks. So that's a pic of Paul at Abbey Road in 1967 with Brian photoshopped in, unless Brian has been documented as having visited the Beatles at Abbey Road in 1967.
9804  Smiley Smile Stuff / The Beach Boys Media / Re: Brian and Macca 1967 pic on: June 16, 2008, 03:23:32 PM
Looks awfully fake to me. It looks like they've taken a photo of Paul in a control room and stuck Brian in. Brian doesn't match the rest of the photo, although the crummy quality has probably covered up some of the most obvious artifacts of it being fake.

Also, without digging out my "Recording the Beatles" book, it looks like that's an EMI mixing desk from Abbey Road (which would make sense if this is a Paul photo with only Brian added in). So unless Brian visited Paul in London in 1967, I think the other elements of the photos are a giveaway.

If this is a fake, somebody can probably dig out the original photo of Paul without Brian.
9805  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carl's vocal on AJ track on: June 15, 2008, 09:59:02 PM
"Don't Fight the Sea" is easily the strongest of the tracks that have have been offered for sampling so far, in my view. Based on both hearing that segment of the song, as well as comparing another circa 1978 track "Looking Down the Coast", to Al's new version, I would guess that little to nothing from the 1978 recording of "Don't Fight the Sea" is heard on this new version. Even Carl's voice (and Al's for that matter) doesn't sound like it's from 1978, it sounds more like a Carl vocal from sometime in the 90's (perhaps late 80's). It's amazing how great both Al and Carl sound on that track. It sounds like Carl might be in the background vocal blend on the track as well, and it has that near-Beach Boys sound.

I am a bit disappointed at the prospect of so many guest vocalists on this album considering how great Al sounds. I like having the guesting lead vocal bits from Brian and Carl, but I'd rather hear Al sing than Glen Campbell or Steve Miller.

I'm just thinking that "Don't Fight the Sea" has been sitting in the vaults for 30 years now; it could have at least perked up some uneven albums such as, well, just about every album the Beach Boys released after 1978. I'm also thinking that, given the fact that Carl is on it and it was presumably at one point a potential Beach Boys track, it also would have made a nice track for that hypothetical one last great (or at least good) Beach Boys album we could have had at some point in the 90's.
9806  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1980 gigs & sessions on: May 19, 2008, 03:30:52 PM
Ugh...that medley may have been the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen.  Why would they agree lip synch to the release at any time, let alone  twenty years after the fact?  Didn't they know how bad that was going to be?  Or think that anyone would notice?

As someone else mentioned, it seems like "American Bandstand" was very firm about only doing lip-synching. They also probably chose to mime to that medley because it was a recent "hit". Didn't that medley hit like the Top 10 or 20 around that time?

It is one of the more odd BB TV appearances. Dennis looks about the worst he ever had, at least as far as TV appearances. The whole thing was just odd. Circa 1981 Carl-less Beach Boys miming to the "Party" version of "Barbara Ann", 1981 Brian miming to Carl's lead vocal on "Good Vibrations." Weird stuff.

My favorite part of that show was the "all star jam" at the end to "Rock Around the Clock." Since Carl as the normal lead guitarist wasn't there, Al had to "represent" the BB's on stage for the song. They start by announcing each "band member" and having them come on stage, and it's pretty funny when they call out Al Jardine to come on stage, he's in the middle of sipping his drink and acts surprised and has to put it down and come on stage. Then, during the song, they let most of the musicians take a solo and Al's is hilariously dreadful. Strangely, even though the BB's were never a heavy guitar band, and Al was never even the lead guitarist, he actually was and/or is capable of playing those leads. I saw him in 2005 playing spot-on leads on songs like "Fun Fun Fun" and "409." But for whatever reason, his solo on "Rock Around the Clock" was a miss. But it's really funny, and you can see the look on Al's face like he knows he blew the solo. Smiley
9807  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: An American Band DVD on: May 19, 2008, 03:23:06 PM
I've probably related this story several times in the past in old threads on this topic, but one interesting thing about "An American Band" is the alternate mixes of 60's Capitol studio tracks in the documentary. As I remember the story, they originally cut the film with the standard Capitol mixes/masters used for those tracks (and that version was the version seen/heard in apparently very limited theatrical screenings). But then they found they weren't allowed to use the actual final Capitol mixes/masters. They could still use the tracks, just not Capitol's mixes. So this is why all of the 60's Capitol tracks have such noticeably different mixes. It seems they specifically mixed the songs to sound noticeably different to display/prove that they weren't using the standard Capitol mixes. This is probably also why they subtituted a few live tracks in as well for early tracks like "409", where it sounds like they used some sort of early 80's live recording because they didn't have any multitrack to do a remix of the original studio version.
9808  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BW 88 studio talk on: May 19, 2008, 03:18:54 PM
They way I remember it being described (and please someone correct me if I'm wrong) was that they simply never made a banded album master where they took each song master and spliced them together on a single reel. They simply kept each song on its own reel and did the mastering that way. So, as AGD alluded to, when they went back to do the 2000 remaster, they didn't have a single master reel to go to, but rather had to pull each individual song master, which then resulted in more chances for a mis-labeled or otherwise incorrect tape to be used, which is how we ended with the two or three incorrect mixes.

I remember reading, I think it was in the Timothy White book, about how there was supposedly an entirely alternate mix done for the whole album spearheaded by Landy, which nobody seemed to like. I've always wondered if the sort of overly-hot, more sort of muddy mix of "Let It Shine" accidentaly used on the 2000 remaster was perhaps that supposed "Landy" version. Probably not, and that whole story of the a "Landy Mix" seemed kind of vague anyway.

I've also always wondered if there truly was an alternate version of "Sherry She Needs Me" cut during those '88 sessions as "Terri She Needs Me", and if so, what it might have sounded like.
9809  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Jardine on cover-version of \ on: August 11, 2007, 05:59:15 PM
Right Al was right there in the formative stage and did sing on the Hite Morgan Surfer Girl, a song that even at that point had been around... Brian first taught to Carl and Dave before Al was in the group, and BTW Dave had rehearsed Surfin' with the Wilsons too before Al recorded it with the BB's MK1...BUT I agree, as I previously stated, my comparison to Love and Mercy was farcical, but funny. The Strat thing drives me crazy cause i know Fender just Googled the BB's and read the Rolling Stone.com bio or whatever and of course they assumed Al was the co-guitarist on all that Fender heavy stuff that is the BB's signature sound as a guitar entity. He's gotten credit for it nearly everywhere for decades, why would Fender know any better. I can say that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has finally come around to the truth, maybe Fender will someday.

You're right Jeff does have the Rickenbacker 12 string that Dave played on the Marksmen stuff. All of Dave's orig. Fenders were stolen many years ago. He currently has a '57 Strat that is sunburst, and when he plays it.. it sounds like 1963.

While I'm sure your description could well be shockingly accurate, I think Fender usually gives a bit more thought to their signature models. My guess is that Al was picked less because they specifically believe he played the guitar licks on that early stuff (even rudimentary bios on the group that fail to mention David Marks will usually point out that it was Carl and not Al that was the lead guitarist, and/or that session guys played some of that stuff in the following few years), and picked more because he has been seen with that Strat pretty much non-stop since 1963 or 64. He played some other guitars in the 70's, but he was seen with a Strat at pretty much every BB show from the mid-late 70's until 1998, and even now at his own solo shows. I see the Jardine Strat as similar to if, say, Gibson did a Carl Wilson signature ES-335, which Carl used pretty consistantly at live BB shows from the late 70's on.

I'm sure it's quite possible that some of the people at Fender aren't nearly as informed about who played what on the BB stuff as they should be. And I'm certainly not trying to deny that, even in the best case scenario, Fender would be at least indirectly linking the Jardine model to the well-known early BB hits. But I think they take a lot into account when they decide to do signature models. They surprisingly don't do a ton of different signature models. I would imagine that they will not be using the "Beach Boys" name in conjunction with the Jardine Strat, which both makes me believe they are at least in part marketing the thing as the guitar Jardine was seen with for so many years in live shows, and they will not really be able to directly link it to early BB songs. But it all goes back to the big burning question: Who is going to even know the name Al Jardine?

I think the Jardine model could have came about because, rather than Googling the BB's, they probably went back to the old Fender advertisements and other publicity photos of the early BB's and found Al with that white Strat. I wouldn't be surprised if, whenever they release this Jardine model, they will utilize old shots of Al from the original Fender prints ads. I think it's more of a visual thing Fender is trying to do with the guitar, because if you add up all the live concert appearances and photos of the BB's, you would probably be see Al's white Strat more than just about any guitar (other than perhaps Carl's ES-335), because Al used the white Strat both in the early days and in publicity photos and whatnot, and also used the Strat for his last 20-plus years touring with the BB's. Even Carl switched his guitars up more than that, using the Jaguar and Rickenbacker, then moving to a Telecaster, and so on.

So I think Fender is banking on a visual connection with the Jardine Strat. Sound-wise, there is too much going on with the BB's. Carl was the lead guitarist on a lot of the early stuff, and David Marks was on that stuff to. Then Al comes in, but soon after that it's a lot of session guys, and by the time the BB's get back to playing their instruments all the time, they either aren't doing a lot of guitar-heavy stuff, or are having Carl or Ed Carter or somebody else playing it. If you ask the average guitar fan to come up with one name that comes to mind when they think about the BB's guitar work, you'll probably get a bunch of different answers including "I don't know." Even asking informed fans of the band will get a bunch of different qualified answers. My answer is that, in relation to past signature guitar models, it doesn't make much sense to do a signature model of any of the BB's really. But they must sell enough of them to hardcore fans and collectors to make it work.

Jon, in all seriousness, I think after the Jardine Strat is released, and particularly if it sells well enough, you and David should contact Fender and try to get something going. Perhaps that isn't feasible, but perhaps it's worth a try. I'm sure even if David doesn't have his original Strat, he could give Fender enough details from memory and pictures to replicate his old Strat enough to do a signature model. They could dig up the same pics (maybe not from actual Fender ads) of David with the BB's playing his Strat, and pics of him on the album covers, and market it that way as well. Heck, if they're willing to do a Jardine signature model, I can't imagine why they wouldn't go all out and do a Carl signature Jaguar, a David Marks sunburst Strat, and a Brian Precision Bass. Throw in some Dennis signature drumsticks (which were actually made a little while back as I recall, because I was tempted but never able to get a set), and well, a Mike Love signature SM-58 mic or something, and you've got the whole band there. Smiley
9810  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Jardine on cover-version of \ on: August 10, 2007, 05:51:58 PM
And to think...Al wasn't even on the Beach Boys hit version of Surfer Girl. Its like getting Mike Love to guest on a cover version of Love and Mercy...makes no sense.

I love ya Jon (well, I love your work, well, you know what I mean! Smiley ), but I think this is a bit of an exaggerated comparison. As someone else mentioned, Al did sing the song about a gazillion times on tour. He sang on the version released on "In Concert" (and all the other live versions on albums, videos, etc.).  He even actually did appear on the "Surfer Girl" album. He also sang the song with the group I would imagine when the song was first being thrown around. Also, doesn't he sing on the early version of the song cut in 1962 that appears on "Lost and Found"?

So I think Al Jardine has a bit more of a connection to "Surfer Girl" than Mike Love has to "Love and Mercy"! Smiley I mean, should Al Jardine have left the stage at the end of the Brian Wilson shows he played at when they ended the shows with "Love and Mercy"? I mean, doesn't David Marks sing leads to BB songs on his live shows with Dean and Al? All these guys are part of the big BB picture, so I think there's enough of a connection for these sorts of things to work.

I can say that, if I was recording a song, especially a BB cover, and I had the opportunity to get Al Jardine to sing on it, I'd have him sing on it in a heartbeat. Just as, if I were recording a cover of some BB track from the 70's or something and David Marks offered to play guitar on it, I'd do that in a heartbeat as well.

As for the Jardine Strat, that was pretty surprising. But so was the Carl Wilson Rickenbacker, which Carl stopped using in the mid-60's, and I don't even know how many studio recordings feature Carl playing his Rickenbacker either. At least Al is having them clone a guitar that he has used for years and years (even though it apparently is not his orignal white Strat, it's the red one he started using in the late 60's and had repainted white in the 70's). While Fender no doubt would want to play up the connection of Al's guitar to early BB hits, I don't think it's an "Al Jardine Early Beach Boys Years Strat", it's just an Al Jardine sig. model, and while that still seems an odd pick for Fender to go with, I'd love to have an Al Jardine Strat. Fender probably bought into a Jardine model because Jardine posed for those Fender ads with the BB's way back when, even if he supposedly only got a Strat to match the rest of the group and because Marks had used one.

I'd love to see a Marks Strat too, and in so far as Fender wants to link these things to the early hits, of course a Carl or David Marks model would make more sense.

By the way Jon, does David Marks by any chance still own his original Strat? I can't remember if that is covered in the book. I vaguely recall a story that in the 70's Jeff Foskett bought a Rickenbacker that he found out had belonged to David Marks (presumably, this would be the guitar he is seen in pics with the Marksmen?). If David still has his original Strat, that would be the place Fender could start with another signature model (which perhaps they'd be open to if the Jardine thing sells well). If David doesn't have his original Strat or some sort of vintage Strat that he used back in the 60's or so, I don't know if Fender would have anything to take away and "clone."
9811  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BW Performing Sgt. Pepper? Really? on: August 02, 2007, 07:31:27 PM
My total guess would also be "With A Little Help...". Not only did the BB's cut it back in 1967, I recall around 1995 the San Francisco ABC affiliate did an interview with Brian Wilson (at his home I think), presumably to tie in with the Beatles Anthology that was airing around that time. They plugged his latest projects (the "IJWMFTT" film and CD, and "Orange Crate Art"), but they also had Brian talking about the Beatles to tie in to the Beatles Anthology promotional blitz. I remember Brian playing and singing "With A Little Help..." during the segment, and he commented on how much he liked the song. I can't remember if he played "She's Leaving Home." I think he played another Beatles song as well. I'll have to dig out the videotape one of these days. It seemed strange back then that they devoted so much time to a Brian Wilson interview (and this wasn't some sort of entertainment program, they aired the interview on the regular news broadcast either in the evening or later at night), and the guy anchoring the interview segment really seemed to actually know a bit about Brian and seemed to stress that back then it was relatively rare to get Brian to sit down for an interview, I guess.
9812  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Summer Dreams 1990 on: August 02, 2007, 07:27:12 PM
The 1990 movie is really a lot of fun, in a totally bad way. For those around me who I've shown the movie to, we often use quotes from the movie in conversation at random points for fun. There are some hilarious lines in the movie. "You're out of the band Buckwheat!",  "I can't have music in my head if I'm always on the road!", "Duh, Al!", and a bunch of others. Plus, the fake beards are legendary. The Murry is actually pretty good, better than the 2000 movie version. Then there is the fake Dennis song. Al has like one or two lines in the whole movie (one of them is "Cool it Brian!" or something along those lines when Brian goes nuts on the plane.)

The 2000 movie is just more disappointingly bad. The first part of it wasn't that bad, but the second part was a travesty. The 2000 movie wasn't without its bloopers either. In one scene Mike's beard starts coming off but they used the scene anyway.

My favorite review of the 2000 movie said something alone the lines of "Apparently ABC is going to make a Beach Boys movie every ten years until they get it right." (The 1990 movie was also on ABC).

So I'm wondering if we should expect another one in about three years.
9813  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New Brian's song: \ on: July 13, 2007, 06:28:00 PM

1)  On the recent release, Songs From Here And Back, Mike sounds OK on "Cool Head, Warm Heart", as he does on the solo album (did you hear those leaked songs?) he has been shopping for the last five years. I prefer Mike's vocals than Brian's on "The Spirit Of Rock & Roll" or "California Feeling".  And do you really prefer Brian singing "I Get Around" over Mike Love? Hearing Brian attempt to sing Mike's part(s), which he does on almost every song, is very unfulfilling to me.

Just to muddy the waters, I think the best voice to sing material like "I Get Around" today is Al. I heard Al sing "I Get Around" (the Mike parts, that is) at a benefit/charity show back in 2005 without his regular band. This is noteworthy because when Al's band including his sons plays "I Get Around", Matt Jardine usually sings both the Mike and Brian parts. So it was interesting to hear Al sing it, and I think he does a great job. You can of course hear him on things like "Little Deuce Coupe" on his "Live in Las Vegas" album. I like how Al sounds on these songs. It sounds familiar, yet different at the same time. His voice is in such good shape. While a song like "PT Cruiser" is sort of a novelty sort of thing, if you listen particularly to the vocals-only mix of that song, Al's lead vocal sounds like it could have been flown in from 1965.

I really wish a quality recording of the handfull of Mike-less BB shows from 1990 existed. I've heard a pretty bad audience recording from an Ontario show in 1990 where Mike was absent, and Al handled nearly all of Mike's leads. Al also handled his own regular leads as well (Rhonda, Come Go With Me, California Saga as well at this show), so the show is the closest I've ever heard to a sort of half-way Al solo show with Bruce and Carl singing a few leads as well. This show was even more Al-heavy than Al's current "Endless Summer Band" shows, where he gives some leads to his sons and whatnot. Even though the recording I heard was pretty bad, even by audience recording standards, I liked what I heard.
9814  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: July 13, 2007, 06:20:16 PM
Given, of course, that we are all given at times to a touch of hyperbole, to me, "The footage of the tour" means "SOME OF the footage..." 

Obviously there was a lot of footage shot of that tour.  Doesn't mean it's all been seen...

This was my guess/presumption as well. Smiley

Even if one took the statement to mean all of the footage, this would still leave things somewhat ambiguous since we don't know how much of the tour was shot and how much still exists. My instinct is that more than the one commonly circulating part of a show does exist or at least did exist. But I would doubt that every single show on the tour was captured or exists today. Then again, I'm insure of how many shows they performed on that tour. Getting back to my presumption in reading Jon Stebbins' book, I never understood the text to actually mean that Jon Stebbins actually sat down and watched every second of every show on that tour. My presumption would be that "the footage" simply means the footage the author had at his disposal at the time of writing. So the original discussion came down to what footage was at his disposal, which for me was a means to find out if the footage of Carl collapsing even exists.
9815  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: July 13, 2007, 01:57:00 AM

The wording definitely seems to suggest he actually saw the footage. On Page 176, a paragraph starts with him commenting: "When I viewed the footage of that concert tour,

Huh ? When Jon says he 'viewed the footage'... exactly which part of the phrase 'viewed the footage' are you having trouble understanding ? Where I come from - England - 'viewed the footage' has just the one meaning.

He viewed the footage.

Didn't read about it.

Didn't have it described to him.

Saw the film. Like, with his eyes, y'know ?

Well, really...  Roll Eyes

Really, AGD? Smiley Are you sure about that? I think I need more clarification! Smiley

Seriously, he says he "viewed the footage of that concert tour." He doesn't indicate which specific shows he saw. I wasn't questioning whether he had seen footage of the tour. I was questioning whether he had definitely seen footage of the specific show where Carl collapsed. After he describes seeing "footage of that concert tour", he then goes on to describe several shows on the tour in the following paragraphs. So it's not 100% clear if he watched footage of all the shows he's discussing, or if he saw some footage of the tour (i.e. the commonly circulating video of one of the shows on the tour) and is mixing that first-hand viewing account with reports from others about other shows on the tour, and/or audio recordings of the tour that circulate, and/or accounts of others who have viewed other footage, and so on.

The reason I said "the wording seems to suggest...." is that he mentions viewing footage of the TOUR, and then first goes into a description of Carl's collapse at a specific show. I was leaving open the possibility that he mentioned seeing footage of the tour such as the commonly circulating show, a show which while tame compared to some of the others on the tour, is most definitely a show that has the potential to shock a viewer, and then shifted focus to other shows on the tour without making it totally clear that the footage of the *TOUR* he saw may or may not have included all of the shows he then proceeds to describe.

As MBE's comments indicate, it's possible Jon may have not actually seen the specific footage of Carl's collapse. As I mentioned before, I asked Jon about this a few years ago on one of the likely now defunct message boards. I can't remember what his answer was, but MBE's account may well be the same answer I got.
9816  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: July 12, 2007, 08:56:45 PM
From what I understand (Jon correct me if I am wrong), Stebbins didn't actually see the Carl falling down footage but described it vividally using the details he gathered from eye witnesses.

Yeah, I'm not quite sure. I vaguely recall asking Jon about it a few years ago on one message board or another. But I can't remember what the answer was.

The wording definitely seems to suggest he actually saw the footage. On Page 176, a paragraph starts with him commenting: "When I viewed the footage of that concert tour, I was shocked at the obvious effects that the drugs had had on Carl. The film reveals that in Melbourne, the Boys enacted a fascinating drama in front of thousands of confused fans."

Several lines later in the same paragraph, where he still seems to be discussing the same specific single show, he comments: "Then, suddenly overcome by the blinding glare of the stage lights, he pitches over like a rotten tree. The audience watches, horror-stricken, as he is whisked off the stage."

I'd love for Jon to comment on this. It just strikes me as suggesting he actually saw the footage. It seems such a vivid description. The way the paragraph begins and then describes the events in the literary present tense, it seems like a description of viewing actual footage.

As or more intriguing than a descripton of such footage is the idea that the footage actually exists. Not that we'll ever see it if it does exist. It just seems such a dramatic event and such things with musical bands are often left to legend and fans recounting the events rather than the event actually being caught on film (or videotape in the case of the Australia shows it would seem). A very honest, all-encompassing BB documentary could even make good use of such footage. But I'm not fooling myself. I can understand why the footage didn't quite make the cut on "Endless Harmony"! Plus, as that film came out soon after Carl's passing, it surely would have been a difficult bit of footage for anybody to see. It could really only properly be digested by fans who can place it all in the proper context, as Jon Stebbins does in his book.
9817  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New Brian's song: \ on: July 12, 2007, 01:07:24 PM
Well, if you watch any of his latest shows, he does smile more than, say, on the 1964 Lost Concert DVD.

It's not very scientific though.

But it seems at least some of the time in more recent years that when Brian has "smiled" on stage, especially when he's on TV or being shot for a DVD, the smiles sometimes seem totally faked and forced. Not that he's having a bad time and faking having a good time. But it seems like he's trying to over-emphasize the smile, and it ends up looking sort of creepy to me.

The best I ever saw Brian was on the 2000 "Pet Sounds" tour. He didn't try to look like he was playing the keyboards, and he didn't do a bunch of hand jestures or fake smiles. He just sat at the microphone and sang, almost like he was concentrating singing in a studio, often with his eyes closed. Not coincidentally, at least in my opinion, that was the best singing I ever heard him do at a show. 
9818  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: July 12, 2007, 01:03:10 PM
The large hunk of one of the Australia 1978 shows that "circulates" on video is not even the worst of the Australia shows. I've heard some audio recordings where Carl is even much worse shape. And it appears that many if not most or all of the shows on that tour were captured on video, because it seems like based on Jon Stebbins' description of one of the shows on his "Real Beach Boy" book on Dennis that he actually watched the show on video, and he describes the show where Carl finally hits the wall and just pitches over on stage.

As for whether "Live Rarities" release is legit or not (I don't have it, but have seen indeed that it is being offered by legit retailers), it's probably best described as a "gray market" item, similar to things like that "Back to the Beach" DVD issued a couple years ago of the BB's that featured a few songs from a 1994 show, or releases years ago of the Beatles' Decca audition on seemingly legit labels. So something like "Live Rarities" is certainly not "authorized" by the BB's, and if the ownership of the footage and rights or lack thereof to release the footage were to be explored, it would probably be found that it shouldn't have been released. It may even be that some of these companies put the stuff out knowing they don't have the rights, but figure they can make a quick buck before they get caught or figure nobody will bother going after them.

But as it is being offered by a seemingly legit company through legit retailers, while we can call it a "bootleg", etc., it is different in that it's not like this is just some item being passed around by fans or under tables at record conventions or something. I just think for discographical (is that a word?) purposes, it's important to note that this "Live Rarities" thing was/is being made available through legit channels, even if it is and/or will be found to be something that they didn't actually have the rights to issue. It's a strange but important distinction to make.
9819  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New book from AGD included w/rerelease of DVD set \ on: July 11, 2007, 05:04:20 PM
Basically, exactly the same as on the 2005 release - the main DVD is a whole buncha talking heads (none of whom I've ever heard of before) talking about the band's career up to about 1973, spiced with contemporary footage and some BB live performances from Ed Sullivan (1964 & 1968), Knebworth 1980 and the 1963 Steve Allen Show. The 2nd DVD is said clips in full. File under 'completeists only'.

Obviously, the biggest challenge was to write something that wasn't a complete rip of the ComGuide, but there is some new stuff included in there that I didn't know back in 2004, plus a few opinions of mine have been revised. It's about 22,000 words.

I got this a few days ago (from deepdiscount.com as it's $8 or so cheaper than Amazon). It's only one disc, though. It only has the talking-heads documentary. There is no second disc with full music clips.

The whole package is constructed and looks pretty nice, but is of course way overpriced even at deepdiscount's price of $26. It's basically a hardcover book with a DVD at the back.

I haven't read the book yet. I had assumed it was simply excerpted from the ComGuide since it had both AGD's and John Tobler's name on it. I'll have to give it a good read now that I know there's some new stuff there.

One error I caught in the book is that they use the '64 "Concert" album photo twice, for both the '64 "Concert" album and the '73 "In Concert" album.
9820  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New book from AGD included w/rerelease of DVD set \ on: July 11, 2007, 04:59:23 PM
Any chance the DVD is playable on American equipment??


I ordered the DVD from a US retailer, and it is playable. It's on Amazon.com and other retailers. (I bought it from deepdiscount.com because it's quite a bit cheaper than Amazon). I don't know if it's Region 1 or Region 0 (I'm guessing Region 0 because the DVD has like a dozen different subtitle options).
9821  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New Brian's song: \ on: July 09, 2007, 10:46:04 PM
Well, here's another example of the official BW website not really keeping up to date with publicizing these things. To be fair, the CD won't even be released until July 31st, so I would imagine it'll get a mention on the BW website eventually.

The sample sounds pretty decent. It kind of sounds like it might have been a co-write with somebody else; it doesn't sound 100% Brian-ish in terms of composition. It doesn't sound at all out of character for Brian either, though. The bit where he goes into the falsetto briefly sounds a bit wonky, but the rest of it sounded okay. It sounded polished but not overly so, and it didn't sound overproduced and overarranged like a lot of the stuff on "GIOMH." I sure hope this new track doesn't have a sax solo in it, or sax anywhere for that matter. I just re-listened to a bunch of "GIOMH", and while I'm not as down on the album as some, I can't stand the "honk-honk" saxophone running all through so many songs from beginning to end, not to mention the general overproduced Disney-soundtrack sound (i.e. "A Friend Like You").

It'll be interesting to see who wrote the song, who produced it, and who plays and sings on it. I wonder if this is another track in conjunction with Ramone. I also wonder if it's a totally new recording or if it's something that might have been recorded at some point over the last five years or so. Wasn't there some sort of press release or news story a few years ago about Brian writing with new writer? I can't remember the other writer's name, but I remember some sort of report about that. 
9822  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: I was a Bum, I told a Lie.... on: July 06, 2007, 03:50:07 PM
@HeyJude:

I believe Paley, Brian and Danny Hutton are singing on "This song wants to sleep with you tonight".
And was the plan really to play this song in a colour-segment of IJWMFTT? I thought it was during "Love&Mercy". Actually L&M has a moment in the recording which would be perfect for a change between b&w and colour.

On "This Song Wants to Sleep...", I can hear the parts where it is a layered Brian (and perhaps Paley and Hutton as well if he was on it), but there are also other parts where it sounds like the distinctive (and not always in a good way) Was backing singers that he used on the other "IJWMFTT" tracks and just about every other track Was produced around this time. This is why I'm curious about the resulting recording; it sounds like one of the few or perhaps only examples of Was overdubbing on top of a Paley-produced track, but I'm only guessing.

As for the color segment for the "IJWMFTT" film, I'm pretty sure in the interview I read that Paley said the idea was for "This Song..." As I remember it, it never got beyond an idea, other than of course recording the song. I don't think a performance of the song was ever filmed. Strange that they didn't stick the song on the "IJWMFTT" album, since the album was already so short. The Paley interview I'm recalling was from the old "petsounds.com" website; all of the stuff such as the Paley interview were taken down when the brianwilson.com website launched, if I'm recalling correctly. The Paley interview was pretty interesting; the most in-depth comments I've ever read from Paley. He still seemed pretty sensitive about the whole thing, but did go into some detail in the interview. He seemed taken aback at the suggestion by some fans that the recordings sounded like demos. As I recall, he insisted the songs were finished products (apart from presumably potentially having the BB's add vocals.)
9823  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: I was a Bum, I told a Lie.... on: July 05, 2007, 09:46:42 PM
So there were Was-produced backing tracks for SS and YSAM?  Do we know who participated (session players, etc.)?  Are they in "circulation"?

It really is a shame that Wilson-Paley stuff didn't get released, with the Beach Boys or without (setting aside the GIOMH versions).

There was a picture in Billboard from the Was-produced backing track session...I've got it somewhere, but haven't looked at it in years.  The players were basically the same ones who appear on the soundtrack for "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times".  I remember Paley was in the photo, along with (I think) Was and his engineer Rick Pekkonen (I'm sure I'm off on the last name), plus guitarists Waddy Wachtel and Mark Goldenberg (if I remember correctly), Benmont Tench, and I think the bassist was Bob Glaub.  Keltner was named but not pictured.  And no, these tracks are not in circulation.  Although I wonder if the organ solo from "SS" was salvaged...it's so Tench-like...

I had always thought that while the BB version of "Soul Searchin'" that we've always heard has the Was vocals on top of the Paley backing track, that "You're Still A Mystery" on the other hand features the Was-produced backing track, or at least some elements of the backing track produced by Was. I had heard about the paste job they did afterward for "Soul Searchin'", but I had never heard that they did the same to "You're Still a Mystery." That guitar riff that runs through it sounds like something Was would produce, but some of the other elements sounds a bit sparse like some of the Paley-produced stuff.

I've also always wondered about the Brian track "This Song Wants to Sleep With You Tonight." It was written by Brian and Paley, and presumably cut during the Paley sessions. But it appeared on the European "Do It Again" single and was marked as having been produced by Don Was and Brian Wilson. I can hear the Was backing vocalists on the song, so Was did do some amount of work on the song. So I wonder whether "This Song Wants to Sleep...." was a case of Was overdubbing onto the Paley recording, or if it was a completely new Was-produced recording. The track doesn't have the same sound as the other "IJWMFTT" soundtrack songs (apart from Was' backing vocalists), so I would guess it wasn't recorded at the "IJWMFTT" sessions.

As far as I can tell, the version of "This Song Wants...." that appears on various "Paley Sessions" compilations is just the commercially-released version, or at least the same mix as what was commercially released.

I remember an interview with Paley where he said that the original plan for the "IJWMFTT" documentary was for it be in black and white, and then near the end it would switch to color and have Brian performing "This Song Wants to Sleep With You Tonight." Too bad that never happened, although it's interesting that they got the song out as an obscure b-side. I also remember in that same interview that Paley commented that the BB's were so good at recording vocals that he felt the BB's could have cut all the vocals for all the stuff he had done with Brian in two days. He also praised Al Jardine's singing in particular.

Regarding comments about the Paley/Was BB sessions, Al Jardine was asked about it briefly during a 2000 interview. Most of that interview was printed in an issue of "Goldmine", but the bit where he talks about the Paley/Was sessions was cut out but later showed up in a different edit of the interview in another magazine, something like "Record Collector." I think Al indicated it was Carl's dissatisfaction with the material that stopped the sessions from continuing. As I recall, Al said he liked the material. But I'm going off of memory, because I only actually have the Goldmine version of the interview.
9824  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: anniversary of BBCentral on: July 05, 2007, 12:51:47 PM
Happy Birthday 'coming soon' page!

I don't know if a page with previous unreleased material for payed download would be very lucrative. A couple of hard core fans would pay for the files, but sadly, most people would get them through other channels.

Better releasing something you can't download like a revolutionary, interactive DVD where you can mix your own "Surf's Up" album on the PC with a virtual mixing board program. Plus bonus tracks of course.

I'd love an interactive DVD like that, but geez, I'd think that such an interactive mixing sort of thing would appeal to an even more narrow group of "hardcore" fans, since it would require somebody who is both a hardcore fan and somebody who has the interest and/or knowledge to mix, etc.

The unreleased material indeed would not sell a ton of copies, but that's part of the reason (or at least, I've assumed that it's part of the reason) behind releasing the stuff direct to fans, because Capitol/EMI isn't interested in putting out disc after disc of archival material that usually doesn't even hit the Top 200 album charts and probably sells in the 5-10,000 copies.

If they release outtakes via the BB Central website, there would no doubt be people who would get it through "other channels" instead of paying for it. But the people who won't buy a single disc or a few discs of outtakes and will only try to get a free copy are the type that would never buy the CD even if it was in stores. People who never bought "Pet Sounds" but only download or get a burned copy or something are people who are never going to buy anything anyway. I think there are plenty of fans who will buy either download or physical CD's (which is what I prefer) through BB Central to make it successful for what it is. I think the people who would put the site together are aware of the potential market for the material.

Heck, maybe they can get Capitol interested again based on the success of "Warmth of the Sun", but I somehow doubt it. I can't believe how many people (including the "official" Warmth of the Sun blog) are salivating over the possibility of a *third* compilation to follow up on "Warmth of the Sun" and "Sounds of Summer." No! Let's get some outtakes! Or some stereo remix album presentations! Anything but another compilation! I support the compilations when I do because of the theoretical idea that this will then make Capitol more interested in future BB releases including archival releases. But when they continue to follow up with more hits compilations, I don't see the pay off in supporting the compilations anymore. Plus, there has to be diminishing returns if they continue to compile these CD's by ruling out stuff that is already on "Sounds of Summer" and "Warmth of the Sun". As successful as "Warmth of the Sun" has been, it hasn't been and will not be nearly as successful as "Sounds of Summer", for obvious reasons.

It would be nice if Capitol would at least issue the "Surf's Up" DVD-Audio, since it's presumably finished and just sitting on a shelf somewhere ready to go.

Hey, here's an idea: Maybe Mike Love and Al Jardine can try to market their in-progress (presumably) solo albums through the BB Central website! Run a special on the site or something, where they release an archival BB album of some sort, and then offer a deal where you can get the new BB release and Mike and Al solo albums all in one package for a discount.
9825  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Fourth Of July - Beach Boys Style! on: July 04, 2007, 11:03:21 PM
Over the past I don't know how many years, I've always thought about watching some old BB July 4th stuff when the 4th of July comes around each year, but I never have really done it. But today, I did manage to watch a good hunk of three different 4th of July shows on video (1980 and 1984 in DC, 1995 in Philadelphia).

I've always had a soft spot for the 1980 DC show, and that is one of my favorites of any live BB video. Sure, it's overdubbed rather noticeably in many places, but all of the basic stuff is still there from the original live performance, and the BB's were pretty solid. As c-man mentioned, this was one of last eras where the number of actual BB's on stage outnumbered the sidemen (and by a 2-to-1 ratio at this show!). While I like the Knebworth show, I actually think the DC show, which was only done two weeks or so later, is actually even better. I actually managed a number of years ago to track down the Japanese Region 2 DVD release of that DC show, and it looks and sounds great.

The other two 4th of July shows I watched were hit and miss. The 1984 show had some interesting song selections. Some of the guest appearances are embarrassing (Julio Iglesias singing to Latoya Jackson?), while others (Ringo) are at least interesting just to see that grouping up on stage. I still laugh at the fact that the BB's chose to have Ringo drum on "Back in the USSR", when that is actually one of the few Beatles tracks that Ringo didn't drum on originally!

A couple years ago, Ringo released his "Postcards from the Boys" book, and in one of the captions Ringo mentions that he had played a show with the Beach Boys. He went on to say that he didn't remember the show at all, but since there is video of it, he must have done the show! Smiley

The 1995 4th of July show is okay for a late-era BB show. The whole thing is a bit of an "autopilot" production, standard setlist, with the added annoying "bonus" of John Stamos sticking around for the entire show. One thing I did notice as I watched this show was that, as annoying and as mediocre as Stamos appears at these past BB shows, even his drumming actually is probably better than Kowalski's!
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