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671847 Posts in 27041 Topics by 3971 Members - Latest Member: kindofgreen September 21, 2021, 04:00:05 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New Brian music this Friday ? on: Yesterday at 06:22:01 AM
It's interesting on the one released track, "God Only Knows", to hear an instrumental solo piano version that so specifically attempts to translate so many of the *vocal* parts so literally.

I have to say, though, that I can't speak for all or any other fans and what they have "wanted" or "asked for" especially in recent years. But what *I* had been saying I'd like to see, and what I feel like some other fans were also asking for, was a "Brian solo at the piano" album of *new* (or, at least "unreleased") songs, with piano *and* vocal. I've often used the example of "Message Man." It's not a perfect example as it's not strictly one voice and one instrument, and it's also not like my *favorite* song. But that was kind of the template in my mind of Brian doing some songs that sound "very Brian" both in concept and execution.

I don't know that I recall *ever* seeing many fans asking for a solo piano instrumental album of Brian's classics. I'm not downing the concept. But my response to this album concept has been much more along the lines of "Oh, wow, uh, okay, let's see what that ends up sounding like" as opposed to "This is what fans have been asking for!"
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Ch 105 Sirius XM Good Vibrations on: September 16, 2021, 03:28:21 PM
Any chance this will come back sooner than next summer ??

I dunno, it took three years for them to bring it back this year after 2018.

Also, as I recall, back in 2018 they extended the channel's run for another month or two past the original end date, whereas this year they stopped cold at the end of August.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Jan & Dean are terrible singers on: September 16, 2021, 06:41:16 AM
I'm not trying to pile on, and I'm also not suggesting anybody was making a full, direct comparison between Jan & Dean and the other vocalists cited as examples. But I have to say, *every* other vocalist cited in this thread is by any measure a far better singer than Jan or Dean, including any of the Beatles, Ray Davies, Neil Young, and even Bob Dylan.

In particular, someone like George Harrison grew into a fine, skilled singer, and even in his early days when his lead singing voice (though still far better than Jan or Dean) was clunky on early stuff like "Do You Want to Know a Secret", he learned very early on to sing some great multi-part harmonies with John and Paul. And, even as a lead singer George had a level of skill and experience and even self-confidence that I never heard in something like Jan & Dean. Listen to the Beatles' Decca Audition; Harrison arguably carries the band on lead vocals. Remember that a fact kind of lost to history (if you don't listen to pre-EMI stuff or read Lewisohn) is that Harrison was a *bigger* part of the act pre-EMI. He kind of got cut out of the act to some degree when they started cutting albums and doing more formulated live setlists.

I think there's a HUGE difference between a bunch of 60s rock/pop singers who were not formally trained but had obvious raw vocal talent and in many cases honed their skills through playing lots of live gigs, etc., and something like Jan & Dean where they weren't exactly playing 8 hours per night in Hamburg, Germany, and weren't exactly doing anything near the breadth of song types a band like the Beatles were doing, switching from show tunes to country to rock and roll to originals, and so on.

Jan & Dean were very much a "they get the job done" sort of act vocally (and sometimes perhaps not quite rising even to that level); whereas the Kinks or Beatles or Neil Young or whomever were fine, exceptional singers that often if not usually just didn't come from formal training. HUGE, HUGE difference between these two things.

I'm not even sure who to compare to Jan & Dean. To try to find something else in the BB world to compare, I guess I'd say it hews much closer to something like Jack Rieley's vocals on "Tree", or the wonkiest of the Honeys/Spring vocals. And really, I truly feel like that's kind of being too unkind to the Honeys/Spring stuff.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Here's a little web-series about some Feel Flows era tunes on: September 10, 2021, 02:04:48 PM
Thanks for the feedback, Craig. 

Here's episode 2 about This Whole World. 

As always, I appreciate feedback -- help me dial it in to be as interesting to as many people as possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UVxeEJKlIQ

I'm definitely down for a Part 2 for "This Whole World!"
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: September 10, 2021, 12:48:35 PM
Wasn't it Bruce that had a quote at some point years ago that he didn't like that they sounded like "old men" on "Break Away?"

Which of course doesn't answer whether they ran the tape off-speed for that final chorus of backing vocals.

It sure sounds like they ran the tape fast to make the voices sound slow/low on regular playback. I can't think of another case of a full spread of backing vocals like that sounding so obviously off-speed. They were indeed gifted vocalists individually and collectively; perhaps they could actually mimic slowed-down tape. But it has all the hallmarks of slowed-down/altered speed.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2021/2022 Tour Thread on: September 10, 2021, 06:42:51 AM
The plan at least is apparently for the Cabazon date to be rescheduled in 2022, so I've updated the top post schedule to reflect that.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: September 09, 2021, 07:10:21 AM
Your new "Slip on Through" breakdown is great. I'm putting a link up on my FB page. This stuff needs to be seen indeed.

Your guitar breakdown awhile back on "This Whole World" was great. I'm curious if there's a way to do a breakdown on *why* the chord changes in "This Whole World" are so appealing. That song has like a million chords in it, and the changes make no sense yet make total sense. It's not something like, say, that rando Brian '77 track "Why", which while cool and interesting, sounds like some random weird jazzy chord changes. "This Whole World" keeps changing chords, almost like a runaway train, but they all sound right. The chords come back around and resolve and sound "right" at the end, but each chord change sounds "right" even before anything resolves. "Wonderful" is another one like that.

I'd have to guess some of what sounds right are the modulations/key changes, but my grasp of this musicological whatnot in terms of trying to describe what I'm thinking always comes it fits and starts. These videos *show* this stuff. Perfect.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2021/2022 Tour Thread on: September 08, 2021, 12:23:02 PM
Here's the venue's statement on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/MorongoCasino/status/1435413110555250693
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 2014 Ernie Knapp Interview (1981-82 Beach Boys Touring Bass Player) on: September 08, 2021, 12:15:34 PM
Following up on this a million years later, I just recently stumbled across (or re-stumbled across) a local news station clip featuring the BB's 1982 Jack Murphy Stadium gig (May 2, 1982). I grabbed a few screencaps. It does confirm that Ernie Knapp was there on bass for at least that one gig once Carl returned "full time":





10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: September 08, 2021, 08:48:50 AM
This isn't the actual Billboard Top 200 albums chart, but something based (I assume) on sales rather than airplay and streams -- no doubt making it more favourable to a release like FF. Still cool though.

It's billboards own "top album sales" chart. Really the only billboard chart that matters

I think selling 10,000 copies in one week of a set that goes for up to $125 is great; this are good numbers for a multi-disc archival BB set.

In terms of the industry, the "main" album chart is this one:

https://www.billboard.com/charts/billboard-200

This is the main "Top 200" chart, which counts actual unit sales as well as uses a formula to equate streams to sales. I think it's 1,250 streams from a paid subscription service that equal 1 sold unit, and 3,750 streams from ad-supported services equal 1 sold unit.

I'm pretty sure they count each disc in a boxset towards the total sold count which is why some companies like including a bonus disc to boost sales figures.   If I'm correct, the total number of boxset sales would be approx. 2,000 which seems more realistic.

I"m curious if it could work like that.

The albums sales chart includes both digital and physical full album purchases. The digital edition has no "discs", so I don't think a digital edition would count as multiple units. Also, this figure would presumably include other SKUs for the set such as the vinyl edition, and possibly the 2-CD version.

There may be some more convoluted formulas they use; I'm not sure. But I don't think the set has sold only 2,000 units across all physical and digital SKUs.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: September 07, 2021, 11:50:34 AM
This isn't the actual Billboard Top 200 albums chart, but something based (I assume) on sales rather than airplay and streams -- no doubt making it more favourable to a release like FF. Still cool though.

It's billboards own "top album sales" chart. Really the only billboard chart that matters

I think selling 10,000 copies in one week of a set that goes for up to $125 is great; this are good numbers for a multi-disc archival BB set.

In terms of the industry, the "main" album chart is this one:

https://www.billboard.com/charts/billboard-200

This is the main "Top 200" chart, which counts actual unit sales as well as uses a formula to equate streams to sales. I think it's 1,250 streams from a paid subscription service that equal 1 sold unit, and 3,750 streams from ad-supported services equal 1 sold unit.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: September 07, 2021, 11:44:50 AM
What's weird is that the article notes it's the second time the band has hit the Top 10 since the advent of the "Top Album Sales" chart in 1991, yet it cites the #3 debut for "That's Why God Made the Radio", which I believe was actually in the full-blown main "Billboard 200" album chart.

The way these charts are tabulated, and which albums can go where, has changed so many times over the years. Add to that the fact that streaming vs. sales as measures for success has changed drastically even since TWGMTR in 2012. Which is probably why Billboard mentioned the TWGMTR comparison, because neither the "Top Sales" chart nor the current "Top 200" charts particularly resemble what the "Top 200" chart constituted back even ten years ago, let alone more.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: September 07, 2021, 06:25:33 AM
So Giggens was talking about Al rerecording the bass for seasons in the sun and that could've been a possible factor for the set to be pushed back. Do you guys think that could be the case? I mean, it really doesn't matter anymore but, hey, I'm curious  Roll Eyes

Nothing like that was behind the hang-up/delay discussed last year.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: September 06, 2021, 08:59:39 AM
“Sail On, Sailor” UNINSPIRED??? Yikes! 

To be fair to the OP, it's not ever said that the song "Sail On Sailor" is uninspiring, merely that the use of that title for a box set is uninspired. I read that as unimaginative, and I think it's a fair call. I'd prefer "Funky Pretty" or "Spark In The Dark" or even something that comes from the fairy tale 'lyrics'.

Not trying to drag this back into a debate or anything, but the original post in question said:

"Is the next set really going to be titled "Sail On Sailor"? Kind of uninspired, much like the song itself."

I don't know how that can be read any other way than saying the title is uninspired, and also that the "song itself" is inspired. To each their own of course, but somebody does appear to feel the *song* is uninspired.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: September 03, 2021, 11:29:14 AM
I think it would be something like:

Sail on Sailor is the most recognizable song title from this window of time; if a "casual" fan could ever name or at least recognize a song from this era, that would be the one. It's a title that can be thematic enough for such a set (they continued to "sail on"; they kept working and making and releasing music!). The song title hasn't previously been used for any high profile compilations or sets. It's representative of one of the major changes of this era; having Blondie and Ricky in the band having Blondie especially present vocally.

In terms of marketing, if they didn't go with this title, then I wouldn't even see a reason to bother using another song title. At that point, just start coming up with new names. "Shaved Fish", whatever. I mean, we're not going for like exposé, blunt, negative, gritty titles. I don't think a working title for "Feel Flows" was ever "One Big Hyped Up Lie!"

"Sail on Sailor" makes perfect sense to me.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The evolution of the Beach Boys as backing vocalists (As heard on Feel Flows) on: September 03, 2021, 11:21:18 AM
The "no fear" aspect of this is quite interesting. It certainly seem to be the case, and I wonder how this figures into what Howie discusses in the liner notes; namely, that despite contemporaneously touring a much less current/progressive setlist (and being constrained to some degree by number of vocalists and musicians on stage), they would then go into the studio with full confidence and work on such a wide array of material, a truly progressive attitude in the literal sense.

What I'm curious about is, does it seem like it was easier to have no fear because they knew they weren't getting hits anymore? I'm not positing this, I'm truly pitching it out as a question. They certainly wanted any and all measures of success, from sales to chart position to critical notices, etc. But was the crazy and amazing variety of styles on this stuff, was it an attempt to hope *something* stuck as commercial, or was it easier to follow their muse because they didn't expect to have hits?

I know that part of it was simply that this was "what they do"; up through 1979 or 1980 they were pretty tied into the tour-album-tour-album cycle. So I'm sure part of doing what they did in 69-71 wasn't informed by a specific motive, but was just them continuing to do what they did.

Back specifically to vocal arrangements, this stuff is just unparalleled it is inventiveness and ingenuity, and pure technical ability. And yes, Mike is a key star on these vocals. "San Miguel" becomes infinitely more interesting to me in the various forms on this set; remixed, backing track + backing vocals, and the vocals-only bit.

You know, there are on occasion songs in a band's catalog that maybe start to get milked, especially on big deep-dive boxed sets. But truly, they can never pick apart the vocals (and also the instruments!) on "This Whole World" (and a ton of other songs) too much. Like really, I'm ready for like five other "under-dub" mixes singling out various portions of both. 
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: September 03, 2021, 11:07:05 AM
Is the next set really going to be titled "Sail On Sailor"? Kind of uninspired, much like the song itself. Wouldn't "Leaving This Town" be a thousand times more fitting? The song is one of their proggiest, a Blondie/Ricky offering, and an underrated highlight, not to mention the group had "left town" in '72, both literally and musically.

I'd wager part of titling something "Sail on Sailor" would be that it's, by leaps and bounds, the most recognizable song title from this era.

And um, yeah, I can't say I've met a ton of Beach Boys fans who would describe the song as "uninspired."
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2021/2022 Tour Thread on: September 02, 2021, 06:52:26 AM
Added the setlist for the 8/31 to the top post. Looks like it was the same setlist with one addition ("Do You Wanna Dance").
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: September 02, 2021, 06:17:30 AM
Not criticizing the set necessarily because it is fantastic but I wish the live selection on the Sunflower disc was just slightly different! Would have liked to see these two performances included instead of the two 15 Big Ones songs (which I know both dated back to the Sunflower sessions but still felt out of place to me).

“Cool Cool Water” TV Performance 1971
https://youtu.be/rUcDojcRiFM

“Forever” Central Park 1971
https://youtu.be/9hyp9b72jSE

Was also surprised to see a live version of “Feel Flows” wasn’t include on the Surf’s Up disc. This is the only live version of it I’ve heard but if it’s the only one that exists, I can understand it being left off the set as Carl is definitely struggling with the vocals (probably safe to say he was not sober that night). The Charles Lloyd flute solo is killer though, it’s a shame if there’s not a better performance from that period in the vaults. https://youtu.be/W1If_VGaiF0

There are several reasons those two TV broadcast recordings wouldn't be included on a set like this.

First, BRI doesn't own those recordings. They'd have to be licensed from the owners of the footage. I would assume one of the benefits of a set like "Feel Flows" is that it's all material owned by BRI (or Capitol/UMG), so they don't have to pay to license any recordings.

Second, I think the preference is to use live recordings where they have multi-track sources, and/or high quality stereo soundboard recordings. The sound quality on the extant recordings of those TV appearances, while not awful, would stick out on a set like "Feel Flows"; the recordings would sound thinner and mono.

I think they would go to more iffy-sounding sources for recordings if the piece in question was rare enough and indispensable.

If they wanted to start using more sketchy-sounding sources for the sake of completeness, they could also use the murky audio recording of the band's live take on "Slip on Through" from TV, or Carl's lead from 1988 or "Forever", or audience recordings of "Lookin' at Tomorrow" from the '71 or '83 tours, the live "Don't Go Near the Water" from '71, etc. I think the idea, especially on the live recordings on "Feel Flows", is not absolute completist-status, but just a presentation of some nice-sounding recordings of well-performed tracks.

And they did some nice work finagling a few of those things; I sense they had to extract "This Whole World" from 1988 from the medley they sometimes put it in on that tour, sandwiched between "California Dreamin'" and "Don't Worry Baby."
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: September 01, 2021, 10:08:18 AM
Speaking of Take A Load Off Your Feet...that live track from the '93 "unplugged" set is killing me with those organ fills! It sounds like they invited Al Kooper to play organ that night and told him "just play what you played for Dylan"  LOL Smokin

I would love some more complete releases of that '93 unplugged material, that was a total curveball for the live band at that time, and there are some terrific performances to be heard from various shows on that tour. That's when those cuts were even deeper than they would seem now.


Did they always play the same rare songs during the "unplugged" set on that tour as heard on the NYC recording?
It's great to hear them perform "Wonderful" a. o. but imo the electric keyboard sounds unfortunately haven't aged very well.

There was only a short string of shows around November of 1993 when they did the full additional set. They didn't swap songs out, they just *added* a full extra set of about 15 songs, mainly to promote the "Good Vibrations" boxed set (although, as I mentioned, they ended up doing more a general set of songs that mixed rare songs and some "unplugged" selections rather than strictly only doing boxed set songs). They thought enough of this mini-tour to conduct full band rehearsals at Al's studio (a recording of the rehearsals circulates; on the extant recording Mike doesn't seem to be present). But it was a short string of shows; I'm not sure precisely how many. Looking at schedules, I'm guessing it was mostly just the 8 or 9 shows from November of 1993.

They *did* retain a few of these "deep" cuts into the 1994 setlist; I believe things like "Hushabye" and "All This Is That" stayed in for awhile.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: September 01, 2021, 10:03:33 AM
Speaking of Take A Load Off Your Feet...that live track from the '93 "unplugged" set is killing me with those organ fills! It sounds like they invited Al Kooper to play organ that night and told him "just play what you played for Dylan"  LOL Smokin

I would love some more complete releases of that '93 unplugged material, that was a total curveball for the live band at that time, and there are some terrific performances to be heard from various shows on that tour. That's when those cuts were even deeper than they would seem now.

"Take a Load Off Your Feet" is an even more interesting setlist inclusion for those late '93 shows because the added set of "rare" songs was ostensibly for the purpose of promoting the "Good Vibrations" boxed set, yet "Take a Load...." isn't on the set!

Another interesting bit about the '93 NYC songs that have trickled out on various releases is that, when the pristine soundboard of the show surfaced many years back (after having only been rumored to exist in prior years), I had wondered if they only had a DAT recording of the "house mix." But it appears they captured the show on multi-track most likely, as the mixes of these '93 NYC tracks on these official releases are more refined and balanced.

Conversely, I'm guessing things like "This Whole World" '88 on this set, or the 1995 live "Sail on Sailor" from the MIC set, probably only exist as stereo soundboard DAT recordings.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2021/2022 Tour Thread on: September 01, 2021, 09:57:10 AM
I’ve been saying for a long time that they should be equally billed, especially when it became apparent that Al was not just a special guest and a permanent fixture in the touring band. Maybe it’s because they’ve built up the name “Brian Wilson” to be a sort of brand at this point. Al seems to be a really humble guy and I give him a lot of credit for that. But they’ve been touring together for almost a decade now, I don’t see any reason why it shouldn’t be “Brian Wilson & Al Jardine” on the marquee. But like I said, Al is humble and it seems like he wants to be supportive of Brian above everything. I don’t think he particularly cares that much if he gets a decent amount of lead vocals spots, though I agree that I think he should be more heavily featured.

I do think it's just a branding/prestige thing. Al seems to be fine with it.

Some venues have on occasion just gone ahead and billed as Brian and Al. That's how it looks on my ticket for a one-off San Francisco show in 2015 (which Blondie was also at of course):

23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - 2021/2022 Tour Thread on: September 01, 2021, 06:42:09 AM
Is it possible that Al doesn't WANT to do a lot of lead singing? It makes no sense to me. Imagine if we still had Carl with us, and all he did in concert was sing God Only Knows, Good Vibrations, and strum an unplugged guitar.

I don't know that he actively doesn't want more leads. I think he just doesn't pursue it. He might suggest a song now and then. But he doesn't seem to burst into the room and ask for let alone demand more leads.

But he certainly can and has carried a show to much larger degree. He sings a lot of leads at his own solo shows, even with Matt there with him.

I think the deal is that these tours are not "Wilson, Jardine, & Chaplin" tours. It's still billed as a Brian Wilson show, with Al and Blondie as special guests. Now, I'd say Al in particular has reached a point in Brian's band where he functions pretty darn close to how he did during his years with the Beach Boys up through 1998. He's up front next to Brian, and serves as a right hand man for Brian to some degree the way Jeff Foskett used to on stage (I think Matt and Darian also function in this fashion as well). But he's clearly not getting in there and dictating a lot about the shows, either in terms of setlist or leads.

I think Al's 2006-2007 short stint with Brian's band didn't go quite as smoothly for a lot of reasons, and since rejoining post-C50, they have found a much better groundwork for Al being there.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: FEEL FLOWS - Chapter One. . . on: August 31, 2021, 10:06:29 AM
The Beach Boys Feel Flows Chapter 3: Growing In Soul


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2J1F0J1e30
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: August 31, 2021, 10:06:12 AM
The Beach Boys Feel Flows Chapter 3: Growing In Soul


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2J1F0J1e30
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