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669504 Posts in 26942 Topics by 3919 Members - Latest Member: waketheworld June 21, 2021, 11:31:01 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Funky Pretty: the So Tough / Holland era sessions on: June 19, 2021, 06:09:13 AM
As excited as I am for the FF set, THIS is the period I'm more interested in, in a way. Can you imagine if "Fading Love Song" existed with a Brian lead? Or the full band version of "In The Country" with Al singing? Or the original "Beatrice From Baltimore". Then there's the "Sail On Sailor" demo.

Unfortunately, you'll have to keep imagining to manifest any of those into the world. Apart from the Sail On Sailor demo, maybe... if the alleged collector holding it ever surfaces.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Funky Pretty: the So Tough / Holland era sessions on: June 19, 2021, 06:06:57 AM
That's what it is. I think Doctor Tom would fit more comfortably into a later package, if Al does okay it. There's a strong possibility that the March 1973 date ascribed to that and a few other tracks is off by a year (the Santa Monica building was still advertising as 'The Venture' adult theatre circa April, and in August the group claimed the studio hadn't yet been set up), but either way, it's firmly into the Brother era rather than Holland-adjacent.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: June 06, 2021, 04:25:57 AM
Also, anybody find it kinda weird that there will be "2019 mixes" of both "Good Time" and "When Girls Get Together"? Personally I figured that their inclusion on the set would have them as they left when the era that encompasses the set ends, as of course both were later put on official, canon Beach Boys studio albums. My assumption is that both will be presented as closely as possible to what they were in '70 and/or '71. Anyway though, is it possible that neither were given even rough mixes in '70/'71?

Lastly, anybody sure about the writers on "It's Natural" and "Won't You Tell Me"? I know it's been said that "It's Natural" is collaboration between Brian and David Sandler but I hadn't seen it confirmed. If it is indeed a Wilson/Sandler tune I am very interested to hear it as "Sweet Mountain" is pretty close to a masterpiece in my book. As far as "Won't You Tell Me" goes, I assumed that it was a collaboration between Murry Wilson and Rick Henn. But then comes the Rolling Stone article and you have Brian saying what he said. Anybody know what's up on either of these or will we just have to wait for the set and scour the credits?

Good Time and When Girls Get Together were both mixed in 1970 and included on the original submission of Sunflower. I'm looking forward to any new mixes, a lot, but I agree that it's a bit of a strange discrepancy when remasters of the original albums are what the set is otherwise prioritising. Those are reflective of the group's artistic intent at the time too, and would have been on the album had it not been for the label. This Whole World and 1970's Good Time had the same stamp of approval, and I don't think the treatment should differ, whether that's remixing both or remastering both. Since we're not going down the remix route, I hope a cop ex release will put the remaining '69-'70 mixes in one place (including those that are already scattered on different comps like Susie and Got My Pay).

It's Natural, I believe, was just written by David Sandler. The I'm Going Your Way released in 2019 featured the later lead vocal attempt - the bootlegged take is a scratch.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Funky Pretty: the So Tough / Holland era sessions on: June 06, 2021, 03:33:33 AM
The fairy tale 'Casual Look' is less than a minute of Brian and Carl loosely playing piano together while Brian sings it off-mic, caught on tape during the tracking session for the main theme following an explanation of where it would belong in the story. Wouldn't call it phenomenal by any stretch, and it isn't a full fledged recording. Still, interesting and fun, and I imagine it's the sort of material that would make an archival release.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: All I Wanna do - Lead vocals: Love with Johnston? on: June 04, 2021, 05:48:55 AM
To be clear I just meant I was open to the possibility that another member 'punched in' or joined in faint unison just for that head voice bit. Definitely not outside the realm of possibility considering they had done it before (Brian embellishing Carl's head voice notes on Good Vibes verses).

But I'll concede that on repeat listen it does seem to be entirely Mike without any help on that section. The head voice there is very pinched and there's no sustain to it - if it was Bruce it'd probably be more legato.

I do hear a faint chorus effect on the lead from 'a gentle thought...' until the end of that line - based on cursory listens I thought that could've been someone faintly doubling Mike, but more likely it's a faint double tracking by Mike or artificial double tracking via tape speed manipulation.


It's only single-tracked, and very evident that it's Mike unassisted when the delay effects are taken away. July, I promise.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: All I Wanna do - Lead vocals: Love with Johnston? on: June 03, 2021, 04:49:31 PM

I don't entirely buy that the falsetto on 'my mi-ind' is Mike as opposed to a stealthy Bruce punch-in. Maybe it'll be clearer when the acapella comes out in July.

It will, because it is. Beyond a shadow of a doubt in this case. You'll have to suspend some disbelief and trust until then.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Gear on: May 31, 2021, 11:42:36 AM
New gear question: Is it documented through photos or otherwise when the group first adopted the Minimoog as their synth of choice? Reason I ask is there's footage of Daryl Dragon at the Crystal Palace Bowl in June '72 using an ARP 2600, and I'm wondering if that's the one they may have taken to Holland to use in the studio. (Tracksheets do always refer to 'Moog', but so do they consistently use 'Mellotron' in place of Chamberlin, so that's not necessarily reliable)

Who's around that would remember this, I wonder

They were definitely using the MiniMoog by the mid-'70s Brother Studio era - beyond that, as far as nailing down a more specific date...there's a closeup of Dennis playing what I think is a MM on the inside spread of the In Concert double album...if so, then we can say at least by mid-late '73.

I vaguely remember Al once saying something about getting a Minimoog after Holland, or maybe before Holland, but I don't know where and don't know when. It would be great to dig that up! He might've said it was after... I remember my reaction to it being something like, "Hmm, maybe he was supposed to say they got it before Holland, because they probably didn't lug a modular Moog to the Netherlands," but perhaps that ARP 2600 is what they used for the time being in the studio and then traded for the fall tour. I hope I did actually read that somewhere.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: All I Wanna do - Lead vocals: Love with Johnston? on: May 30, 2021, 11:34:09 PM
Please Let Me Wonder isn't particularly high at all, just light. He's only singing up to an Eb and D. It's right in the middle of his usual range.

Another example of a Mike upper register moment would be "upside your head" in She's Goin' Bald (where Brian helps him out). He frequently reaches the same high A with the full-voiced yelling in All I Want to Do.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: All I Wanna do - Lead vocals: Love with Johnston? on: May 30, 2021, 02:36:55 PM
"A gentle thought comes in my mind" is all Mike. Not a Mike you usually hear, but it's Mike.

Bruce's "all I wanna do" refrain could be construed as a co-lead vocal in a way, but it is just one component of the backing vocal round. Brian and Mike sing the chorus lead in harmony. Everyone but Dennis is on it.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Gear on: May 29, 2021, 04:27:25 PM
New gear question: Is it documented through photos or otherwise when the group first adopted the Minimoog as their synth of choice? Reason I ask is there's footage of Daryl Dragon at the Crystal Palace Bowl in June '72 using an ARP 2600, and I'm wondering if that's the one they may have taken to Holland to use in the studio. (Tracksheets do always refer to 'Moog', but so do they consistently use 'Mellotron' in place of Chamberlin, so that's not necessarily reliable)
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson interview 1968 on: May 28, 2021, 05:39:37 AM
Fascinating hearing them ballpark what would become the future when they are discussing the Chamberlin.

It's really striking how little they used it. Most groups would be all over that thing if they were able to own one. Guess none of them were taken with the sounds!
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson interview 1968 on: May 28, 2021, 02:32:31 AM
I just listened to this interview again (partly at least) a couple of days ago and it seems that this was done during sessions for "Be Here In The Morning Darling". Listen to the instrument (accordion?) in the beginning practicing what appears to be the prominent line from the instrumental:


Be Here In The Morning Darling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2ZbfSLsGx0

This interview took place January 11, and that was two months later. There wasn't a recording session. The sound is one of the Beach Boys messing around with a melodica.


According to Bellagio there was a session on January 11, while at the same time the interview took place  Huh
But I'm not good at these dates, so possibly I was wrong. Damn.
But it doesn't seem that any of the other Boys was there, does it? One would think that they would speak as well.

No, that's just the date of the interview listed. Although there was a Stephen Kalinich session at Wally Heider's that same day not mentioned on the site.

Carl is driving the car they're in while the interview takes place.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson interview 1968 on: May 27, 2021, 03:08:57 AM
I just listened to this interview again (partly at least) a couple of days ago and it seems that this was done during sessions for "Be Here In The Morning Darling". Listen to the instrument (accordion?) in the beginning practicing what appears to be the prominent line from the instrumental:


Be Here In The Morning Darling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2ZbfSLsGx0

This interview took place January 11, and that was two months later. There wasn't a recording session. The sound is one of the Beach Boys messing around with a melodica.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: May 13, 2021, 01:02:18 PM
The version of "I've Got A Friend" on FF is the track only.


Thank you very much for that info, Howie, hello! I've seen a track list that lists it on the set at 2-odd minutes, but one member here says that the version he's heard was nearly 4 minutes long. Was it edited for the set (unfortunate) or is there some other explanation?


I would assume edited for listenability, since the progression largely just repeats. It has to all get on a CD somehow.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Squares #3 The Surfer Girl album just released on youTube on: May 11, 2021, 12:05:52 PM
Adam, was just about to watch this AND damn Brother have pulled it  Roll Eyes

Huh, what for? I didn't spot anything that could be considered copyright material. Hope you manage to get it back up Adam.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: May 10, 2021, 06:13:44 AM
If you're asking who played on We'll Run Away, the legwork's already there in what you've posted to guess! That session circulates. It's the same, with a 12-string acoustic guitar and Dennis on a bell tree.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Visiting and House Shopping in Hawaii - July 1967 on: May 08, 2021, 06:11:54 AM

I do question the full extent of lyrical contribution by Mike on the Wild Honey album considering he is labeled as co-writing "Mama Says" - what else did Mike not write that he's credited for?

Verifiability, nothing other than Mama Says and I'd Love Just Once to See You. In the latter's case, only because nobody's asked about it yet. Wouldn't be surprised however if that's one Brian started alone and Mike edited. The rest of the songs each have comments from Brian, Mike, or other Beach Boys confirming Mike as the primary lyricist.

Mike claims he wrote the Darlin' verses as they were finishing up the track. Brian already had the chorus on his own.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Visiting and House Shopping in Hawaii - July 1967 on: May 07, 2021, 10:35:19 AM
Danny does explicitly describe it as Brian's house in Priore's book, he doesn't refer the the studio said confrontation happened at in the linked video (only where sessions for TTGA happened), and Negron doesn't either. The only source for Heider's would be Brian. An important source, but it's not weighed up directly by those others. Carlin's also surmising events just as we are. But... that's all besides the point. The point is that "Mike and Carl took the master tapes" away from Brian, as depicted by Carlin and the way hideyotsuburaya argues it, isn't actually what happened. Brian himself erased over those Redwood vocals with his own voice. He initially dropped them under pressure, but it's not like the others used him as a sock puppet.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Visiting and House Shopping in Hawaii - July 1967 on: May 07, 2021, 09:49:29 AM

*What If* John Lennon, George Harrison, and Allen Klein had found out Paul McCartney was recording "Maybe I'm Amazed" at Abbey Road studio 2 in February 1970 on his own, before "Let It Be" had come out. What if even John and George alone had walked in while McCartney was recording that track, began to browbeat Paul, tell him we need material for a new Beatles single, and proceeded to walk out of Abbey Road with the Maybe I'm Amazed tapes. Then while Let It Be was running its course, they went back and added various parts to Paul's tracks while wiping his original vocals. Yet Paul was there with them adding new parts in the name of getting a new Beatles single together.

It's silly, I know, but absurd for a reason. I could understand why some reading an account like that would think the other Beatles "stole" McCartney's track in that scenario, when the track was neither written nor recorded for The Beatles, yet the other Beatles literally walked in on his sessions and walked out with the tapes. Whether or not hypothetical Paul would end up adding more to the track as a Beatle in the scenario, it's what happened and how it was done that might shape opinions.

Again I'm not saying anything is factual or that anyone is right or wrong, but when such a scenario is presented I can see where and why opinions could be formed based on what happened.
 

Sure, I can totally understand that, but that isn't the way the Redwood incident happened either. Danny Hutton explicitly recalled this being at Brian's house, in the Beach Boys' studio, not Heider's. Negron only located it as 'the studio'. This was essentially their HQ, where they convened regularly. Nobody physically walked out with any tapes either - they turned up, 'put the screws on' Brian (inarguably bad conduct, regardless of what happened later or how attitudes may have then changed), and then Brian called it off under pressure. Painting it as if the others literally walked in and stole the tapes for Brian's song is to make the situation sound more absurd than it really was.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Visiting and House Shopping in Hawaii - July 1967 on: May 07, 2021, 09:20:43 AM
"Also, how did Carl get the sole production credit for TTGA if Brian was involved all the way?"

because the song literally was stolen from Brian

You keep stating things that are just factually untrue. Who do you think's singing lead in the chorus?

I know that itís not a question, but iirc Brian & Al.

Ha, yes. Brian's also singing the 'ba ba ba' in unison with Al, he's at the top of the 'deep and wide' quartet, and he's in the middle of all the other verse and chorus backing vocals, less obvious. There actually isn't another Beach Boy as frequently featured singing on the track as Brian.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Visiting and House Shopping in Hawaii - July 1967 on: May 07, 2021, 08:48:28 AM
"Also, how did Carl get the sole production credit for TTGA if Brian was involved all the way?"

because the song literally was stolen from Brian

You keep stating things that are just factually untrue. Who do you think's singing lead in the chorus?
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Visiting and House Shopping in Hawaii - July 1967 on: May 07, 2021, 12:45:10 AM
Also, how did Carl get the sole production credit for TTGA if Brian was involved all the way?

Genuine best theory? Capitol art department mistake. Carl's sole credit simply isn't accurate (or even shared credit, if Our Prayer and Cabin Essence are the benchmark - I don't necessarily think they should be), besides Carl being the Beach Boy in the room overseeing the stereo mix, which is an aspect of Brian's own work that rarely interested him at all after that move. Brian arranged those vocals and sang in every corner of them. He introduced new lyrics. And judging by the re-record attempt, it was also his call to edit out the instrumental passage in the middle of the song.

There was a mono single mix prepared, but not released.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Visiting and House Shopping in Hawaii - July 1967 on: May 06, 2021, 12:44:53 PM
It is also true the entire basic track was re-recorded when finally released on 20/20

No, it wasn't. Another unused track with an entirely new arrangement and reworked structure was recorded by Brian and Carl after the version released on 20/20 (the original production) had already been completed and mixed.

It was Brian's call to work on the song further during the Wild Honey sessions, and his decision to park it for the time being. He tried rewriting it for Friends. There's some evidence that it was being considered as a single for either Gary Puckett & The Union Gap or The Honeys in fall '68 (not exactly a sign of greed), and then Brian brought it back to the Beach Boys again amidst the 20/20 sessions. And when that was done, he kept working on it anyway. The idea that Time to Get Alone was robbed from Brian and completed by the other Beach Boys against his will is a myth stemming from the 20/20 gatefold's production credit. Brian was the one who drove it through every stage of its evolution post-Redwood. With Carl's help, but Brian was always the instigator.

Listening to it (on the 3 dog night CD) I get the distinct impression it wasn't quite done (there're parts that don't transition perfectly).

Might sound unfinished to you, but that's a polished and very deliberately edited mono dub, not a rough.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Visiting and House Shopping in Hawaii - July 1967 on: May 06, 2021, 10:29:20 AM
 After all the Beach Boys didn't get around to doing anything with TTGA for at least another year (and in the end they re-recorded everything, duplicating the redwood instrumentation already done).  Quite insulting.


That... isn't true at all.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Visiting and House Shopping in Hawaii - July 1967 on: May 05, 2021, 08:25:22 AM
Wild Honey does sound like an album fashioned for a live band to play, I can absolutely hear that. What I find interesting is how only a couple of months later, it seems like Brian already had something else on his mind again when the band recorded Friends which abandoned the RnB approach and had several songs that don't lend themselves to a faithful live reproduction for multiple reasons (especially Busy Doin' Nothin', Diamond Head, Transcendental Meditation). I love the music on all of these records but I feel like the Beach Boys, for the first time ever, were struggling for direction around this time and they probably never fully recovered from that. In the years that followed they were trying out new directions all the time, like following up the celebrated Surf's Up with an album that sounds like The Band with some songs that almost sound like Wagner. To me it feels like they were constantly searching for a new sound in those years (going for "all over the place" and cover versions on 20/20, for lush and soft on Sunflower, for dark and contemporary on Surf's Up, etc.). Holland I think sounds like the most successful attempt at coming up with a consistent 70s sound but of course that's when they stopped recording for a couple of years so they didn't really pursue this direction either.

I don't really think they were ever on the hunt for a consistent sound to settle into. Growth and change, and hopping from whim to whim, was what motivated their creativity, especially in Brian's case. Wild Honey was never a 'new sound' so much as it was 'the type of sound we want this one album to have'. That's why I just don't buy that it had anything to do with the live act - they were entering into it consciously knowing this would be a one time in-the-moment deal. I think they were all aware that they would want to try something else later, in whatever form that arrived to them. Brian claimed that he'd 'almost run out of ideas' in January '68... and then within a month or so that new spark had come to him in the shape of Maharishi, Steve Kalinich's poetry, becoming a father, getting a kick out of unexplored genres, and all of the many other changes happening around the group in the first part of that year.
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