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675256 Posts in 27255 Topics by 4016 Members - Latest Member: J.krefetz July 03, 2022, 04:15:57 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Don't Talk isolated guitars re-creation on: December 03, 2019, 09:26:48 AM
So, question:

Do people just not find this very interesting?  Bad song choice?  Interesting but nothing to say?

I'm just curious, because I want to do videos that people like AND stimulate conversation, and I know it hasn't done the latter but I wonder about the former too.  There was one time where I feel like this would have garnered more attention, and in principle, I know that people are interested in this type of thing; see, for instance, Ably House Isolated (Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6pmPWNgVcI) or Mattiboo (example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6j_FHmicFw) for examples of people doing "Beatles isolation covers" that are extremely popular.

Anyway, not digging for compliments or anything--and I'll continue on in my way regardless, but, I'd rather do stuff that people are interested in if possible.

Thanks.
It's awesome. Thank you. Fascinating.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Challenge: Combine MIU and LA into a single cohesive classic LP on: March 24, 2019, 12:14:03 PM
I would rather combine MIU with  the Mike songs from Almost Summer, throwing in a couple of Dennis songs.

And then do the same thing with LA and Celebration.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 20/20 Alternate Track Order on: February 17, 2019, 11:15:19 PM
I have a totally different track listing for Reverberation:

1. Soulful Old Man Sunshine
2. Cotton Fields
3.. A Time To Live IN Dreams
4.. Sail Plane Song
5. Where Is She
6. Celebrate the News\

7. Break Away
8. Mona Kani
9. Well You Know I Know
10. Back Home (1970 vrsion)
11. Walk On By
12. Walkin'
13. When Girls Get Together (instrumental)

Kind of falls apart at the end, but the point is just to get songs on a digestible playlist.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys 20/20 Alternate Track Order on: February 14, 2019, 10:42:19 AM
I'll play.

1. Do It Again (stereo mix, probably MIC)
2. I Can Hear Music
3. Bluebirds Over the Mountain (new mix without the guitar)
4. Be With Me
5. . All I Want To Do (Dennis lead)
6. The Nearest FAraway Place (original mix)

7. Old Man River a capella section/Old Folks At Home/Ol' Man River.
8. I Went To Sleep
9. Time to Get Alone
10. Never Learn Not To Love You
11. Can't Wait Too Long (a capella intro)/Been Way Too Long (Sections -- from I Can Hear Music) However, any of the other versions would probably do, if this is too long.
12. We're Together Again (Stereo Mix from MIC)
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Beatles Vs. the Beach Boys on: February 10, 2019, 11:38:20 PM
Honestly, I hear "God Only Knows" in "Penny Lane". "Penny Lane" is sped up.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Steel Guitar on Little Pad on: January 25, 2019, 11:45:21 AM
I only threw the possibility of being paid under the table out there as a possibility, and it could have been just that. The band by summer 1967 was still making a lot of money from Good Vibrations and the other successes they were having in 1966 including the tours. there was definitely no shortage of funds  if they did want to pay people to play on their records

Yeah, but again, I don't know why they would, if they could get Capitol to do it. If they wanted it to be tax free, they could "gross it up" by adding overtime or doubles to reach whatever net payout the guy wanted, and still ensure a pension contribution.
Could have it simply been on a spontaneous whim by the hardly patient Brian and he paid him out of pocket because he really didn't care too much about bureaucracy and so on?
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What did Brian contribute to the writing of \ on: January 21, 2019, 04:36:34 AM
For some reason I feel like his contribution was lyrical. I have no idea why I think that. Maybe I read it here many years ago? I also recall the "His name is bob and he's got a job"story. Perhaps that is how the song began? Perhaps Brian wrote that one line with that lyric and Bruce kept the melody of that line, and made a song out of it, changing the lyrics?

I've also wondered if the credit wasn't just a way to appease Warner Brothers/Reprise who may have expected a certain number of Brian Wilson credits per album? Just speculation.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: THE WILSON PROJECT - THE ILLUMINATED EDITION on: January 15, 2019, 02:39:36 AM
I think the Usher songs are a lot better than the BB85 songs. They are just dated , that's all. 80s production used to bother me, but now it doesn't; it's just a particular flavor. And definitely the Usher songs are better than "Too Much Sugar", which is from the same time period and which he did not work on and even tried to convince them not to put out. I mean, I like "Too Much Sugar"for its quirks but if Brian wants to be a major label artist....that's actually I think the problem with Brian Wilson's solo work. I think he is basically a free-spirited indie artist who is trying to fit major label expectations.

What gets me is the excitement everybody showed for "Let's Go To Heaven In my Car." I ike the verses but I think the chorus is annoying and the production of course is dated, but wasn't dated in 1986-86. But it's just not that good a song, in my opinion. OH, it's better than anything I've ever written. But everyone, from Wilson, to Usher to the Beach Boys to Lenny Waronker were convinced it was a winner. Brian played it at a songwriting conference like it was the second coming of "God Only Knows" and got a standing O. Like...what?. It is a bit absurd. Same with "The Spirit of Rock and Roll." There were like, wars fought over that song. In the end, while it is well-crafted, it is also just mediocre compared to Brian's best.

 And then it never even really got officially released  other than that flabby, lazy 2005 version.

The bit with Al Jardine being all pissy is pretty funny too. It's also interesting how Mike Love seems the most sane of all the Beach Boys compared to Brian and Al. Bruce comes off as a bit nutty, too. Only Carl and Mike seem to treat Usher like a human, although in the background, Mike is secretly trying to rewrite Usher's lyrics so he can wrangle a songwriting credit.  And then, Bruce is all in Usher's face about it. What a weird bunch of people.

But I think that all that stuff (and the BB 85) represents Brian coming out of long inactivity, and naturally his first songs are not going to be as good as what came later. And I think that Paley was a better collaborator because he wasn't trying to force Brian into this commercial mold like Usher was.

I must say that the book definitely makes me wonder how many lyricists have been uncredited over the years.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: THE WILSON PROJECT - THE ILLUMINATED EDITION on: January 14, 2019, 08:27:02 PM
I think the Usher songs are a lot better than the BB85 songs. They are just dated , that's all. 80s production used to bother me, but now it doesn't; it's just a particular flavor. And definitely the Usher songs are better than "Too Much Sugar", which is from the same time period and which he did not work on and even tried to convince them not to put out. I mean, I like "Too Much Sugar"for its quirks but if Brian wants to be a major label artist....that's actually I think the problem with Brian Wilson's solo work. I think he is basically a free-spirited indie artist who is trying to fit major label expectations.

What gets me is the excitement everybody showed for "Let's Go To Heaven In my Car." I ike the verses but I think the chorus is annoying and the production of course is dated, but wasn't dated in 1986-86. But it's just not that good a song, in my opinion. But everyone, from Wilson, to Usher to the Beach Boys to Lenny Waronker were convinced it was a winner. Brian played it at a songwriting conference like it was the second coming of "God Only Knows" and got a standing o. Like...what?. It is a bit absurd. Same with "The Spirit of Rock and Roll." There were like, wars fought over that song. In the end, while it is well-crafted, it is also just mediocre compared to Brian's best.

 And then it never even really got officially released  other than that flabby, lazy 2005 version.

The bit with Al Jardine being all pissy is pretty funny too. It's also interesting how Mike Love seems the most sane of all the Beach Boys compared to Brian and Al. Bruce comes off as a bit nutty, too. Only Carl and Mike seem to treat Usher like a human, although in the background, Mike is secretly trying to rewrite Usher's lyrics so he can wrangle a songwriting credit.  And then, Bruce is all in Usher's face about it. What a weird bunch of people.

But I think that all that stuff (and the BB 85) represents Brian coming out of long inactivity, and naturally his first songs are not going to be as good as what came later. And I think that Paley was a better collaborator because he wasn't trying to force Brian into this commercial mold like Usher was.

I must say that the book definitely makes me wonder how many lyricists have been uncredited over the years.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: THE WILSON PROJECT - THE ILLUMINATED EDITION on: January 14, 2019, 03:52:17 AM
Holy Cow! What a great read! I have no idea how Usher managed to stay in that scene as long as he did. You can read between the lines that Brian wasn't crazy about Usher's "technological" approach and that's perhaps the main reason why the stuff didn't work out, but still. If I was Usher I would have run as fast as I could away from that craziness.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1969-70 Copyright Extension Release Prediction Thread on: January 13, 2019, 12:32:59 PM
Oh, I agree that it is not indicative of their total output, not by a long shot,  but I personally don't think it is the kind of thing that affects sales, and the fact is, they are known for the songs about teenage culture + Pet Sounds, so I get it. It really is safest to play up that aspect and let people discover the other sides of the band at this point. If it was 1971, of course, I'd say they should play up the other sides more. But my experience preaching the Beach Boys gospels is that most people really don't care about the other sides of the band. It's like, their minds are already made up.

That's why I think their GV Boxset look is the better route to take. Where the Beach Boys are known for surfing, and not really known as a school-related-activities band, I just think it makes more sense to market the former rather than the latter. I think CabinessenceKing said it best about MiC:

Quote
The set has a low aestethical appeal. That bland, bright orange cover. There is no contrast of colours or vividness in the colours used. There is no message in that cover; no Sounds of Summer, no Endless Summer!  That hideous 15 Big Ones logo (aesthetically awful and cheesy) blended into the background and the wave motif didn't work at all.

The GV Boxset was very clear about what it was, and I think it does a good job of drawing people in. So I'm not at all against them using their early years as a marketing tool to increase appeal of a boxset/set. But at least give it some appeal...make it obvious what you're going for at least. You can't even really tell it's a yearbook theme until you open the set up. Again I'll say: I like the set. But put the GV set (surfing) and MiC (yearbook) in front of a casual fan with $100 and I'd bet they would pic the more aesthetically pleasing GV set. Just my opinion.

I think we both agree that marketing the early years of the band is a good route to take though.
Yeah, I see what you are saying and I agree: the GV box had a good design, probably better than MIC. But I also see that they didn't want to repeat it.

What I actually think I disagree with just about everybody is that the design  really impacted sales. It's just a tough sell to casuals and fan-base folk alike. I bought it because it had 70 new songs, if you count the new mixes. (And yeah, some of those I had already, but it was nice to be able to actually purchase them.)

But I honestly think that the Beach Boys get right is embracing their early days (from a sales perspective). But Maybe a psychedelic looking cover a la Smiley Smile or Wild Honey might catch the eye of a few folks. But ultimately, I don't think that a $130 dollar box sets are sold because of the look of the box, anyway.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1969-70 Copyright Extension Release Prediction Thread on: January 13, 2019, 07:50:12 AM
"Pom Pom Playgirl."
 I would also say that the lyrics of "Fun, Fun, Fun" and "Keep an Eye on Summer"  implicitly takes place in a setting that includes school in the reality of the progagonists.

Then there are Wilson songs like "New Girl in School" (in all its permutations).

 "Surfers Rule" -- the first line is It's plastered on the walls all around the school now

"IN the Parking Lot" explicitly takes place in front of a school.


I think most of the protagonists in the early songs are meant to be teenage kids (even though they were written by young men) and they are obviously trying to capture, even document,  the American teenage culture of the 1960s (and few writers have caught it better than Wilson with Love and his other co-writers. )

The year book thing makes perfect sense to me, honestly. Though I have no skin in this game -- I just care about the music.

You are totally right that the early years of this band were inspired by an aura of high-school-centric activities, but it's a career spanning boxset - so maybe 6 songs on the set vaguely or explicitly relate to school, the other 168 songs range from surfing to vegetables to the planets in our solar system.

I do see what you're saying, and it does make sense on some level, I just don't think it was the best marketing idea given that the set covers 50 years of the band and basically 3 of those years had some school-centric songs, and that their basic image is that of America's surf band. I say that, but I doubt I could think of anything better, and I think some of the "ads" and the inclusion of Brian's theory of life paper were really special...and in the context of the yearbook idea made perfect sense to include. So while I find the idea somewhat puzzling from a marketing standpoint, I still do think its a nice set (I have listened to it constantly since getting it the week it came out).
Oh, I agree that it is not indicative of their total output, not by a long shot,  but I personally don't think it is the kind of thing that affects sales, and the fact is, they are known for the songs about teenage culture + Pet Sounds, so I get it. It really is safest to play up that aspect and let people discover the other sides of the band at this point. If it was 1971, of course, I'd say they should play up the other sides more. But my experience preaching the Beach Boys gospels is that most people really don't care about the other sides of the band. It's like, their minds are already made up.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1969-70 Copyright Extension Release Prediction Thread on: January 12, 2019, 03:45:57 AM
"Pom Pom Playgirl."
 I would also say that the lyrics of "Fun, Fun, Fun" and "Keep an Eye on Summer"  implicitly takes place in a setting that includes school in the reality of the progagonists.

Then there are Wilson songs like "New Girl in School" (in all its permutations).

 "Surfers Rule" -- the first line is It's plastered on the walls all around the school now

"IN the Parking Lot" explicitly takes place in front of a school.


I think most of the protagonists in the early songs are meant to be teenage kids (even though they were written by young men) and they are obviously trying to capture, even document,  the American teenage culture of the 1960s (and few writers have caught it better than Wilson with Love and his other co-writers. )

The year book thing makes perfect sense to me, honestly. Though I have no skin in this game -- I just care about the music.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: THE WILSON PROJECT - THE ILLUMINATED EDITION on: January 11, 2019, 11:33:58 PM
Never mind. I took the leap and bought it; and was immediately directed to a page where I could download it. Thanks!
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: THE WILSON PROJECT - THE ILLUMINATED EDITION on: January 11, 2019, 11:25:32 PM
Thanks, Chris Farell. I was unaware of the exitence of this book.

I have a question before I order the Ebook? I started to, but then I see nothing. How is the book delivered? Is it automatic upon payment? I see that I can fill in an electronic form with an shipping address (as if I was publishing a physical product.) But it doesn't even ask me for an email address. Before I pay, how does it work? Will it automatically download after I pay?

Sorry for my ignorance, but I've never bought an ebook through this medium.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published on: January 11, 2019, 09:53:17 AM
It’s about the 1994 lawsuit....
Oh lordy, I hope there’s tapes.  Grin
Sold. I'll buy your book and read it. But are ther eany plans to make a Kindle edition? I live abroad and would prefer version I could read on my Ebook, but if not I'll order the paperback

If there are, there's probably as good a chance as hearing them as we'd have of ever hearing the Brian/Carl-produced Manson tapes.

The tape that is discussed in the Pamplin book is the audio recording of the Australian punch-out conference with David Frost. According to the book, Stan Love secretly taped that meeting. No mention of whether or not that recording has survived.  
FYI.

That is not the tape we're thinking of and also not the tape Rocky mentioned here which was potentially explosive.

Ok... I went back and hacked through the RockRush thread for context.  Having read this work, I'll confirm that there's no smoking gun on the songwrtiting credits front.  Based on the nature of the earlier Rush thread, it would have been silly for me, as a reader, to expect anything of that sort in the book.  In my case, that had no bearing on the decision to read the book.  The book is not a pro-Mike book; it is, among other things, a "let's steer clear of Mike" book. What it is, in the end, is an anti-Dennis Wilson book, and perhaps also an anti-Wilson brothers book.  This is because what comes across in the book – per Rocky’s opinions, perhaps influenced by Reynaldo/Ron – is that as of the late 1970s, the Wilson Bros. were, each in his own way, obstructing the continued success of the Beach Boys and therefore had to be dealt with in different ways.  

This probably accounts for why fans object to the book and to Rocky and all that, but it should be obvious (even before this book came out) that Rocky had the implicit backing of the Beach Boys organization to do whatever it was he was doing.  

And - apologies for getting didactic -  but it's worth keeping in mind that the BB story is about a number of different things. Overall, there's (I) Music (art, creativity, expression); (II) Business (how to make money in the rock 'n' roll business; and (III) Family.  So any potential reader ought to know that the RockRush book has nothing whatsoever to do with music.  By the time Rocky enters the picture in the 1970s, there is no more music in the Beach Boys. It is a business, and a family business at that.  Therefore, you get a viewpoint which portrays certain people as "good guys" and certain people as "bad guys". It is basically the flip-reversal of how story of the Beach Boys in the mid-60s  is commonly told. Dyuring the Pet Sounds/Smile era, the artist is the good guy, the hero, while the money guy is the bad guy.  As of the mid and late 1970s, the organization has turned 180 degrees and the roles are reversed. It is now a 100% commerce organization, and the messed-up, chaotic artsy types are getting in the way of what "Beach Boys" had come to represent.  This in my opinion is why some fans object to Reynaldo and Rocky and that whole mentality - because we fans like the Beach Boys because of their music - the art - and have no interest in their later efforts to stay in business.  So the book is yet another reminder - "this is a business"

I will also say that this book is a bit strange in that it appears to be a case in which the co-writer came in not just to shape the grammar and syntax, etc., but actually to impact the substance of what the primary author wanted to say.  Also, based on the previous RockRush thread, it appears that the draft excerpts Rocky posted remain more or less unchanged in the final version.  That is, in the end, it may be that Rocky did more of the writing than might otherwise be assumed, and that Ron/Reynaldo did more of the interpretation of the material than might otherwise be assumed.


There's a lot of water under those bridges.

...and as Bob Dylan sang, "a lot of other stuff too..."

Thoughtful take.

Hi Smile Board,
Sorry I haven't been around to absorb some of the recent insults hurled at me. I'm a dunce, huh? I don't navigate the site well enough to respond to those insulting individuals one by one. Perhaps someone could instruct me as to how to do that. I'm always willing to "grow" from their learned opinions.
Are we having fun yet? Apparantly, that's how people get their kicks on this site. I had expected more but, that's the way of the world these days. I can understand that Rocky, in the past, got in unpleasant exchanges with some members, but where do they get the right to insult me? They don't know me and it's hurtful in one sense and really sad in another. Got nothing better to do, people? I came on this site to talk about the book, answer questions, etc, because it may be of interest to the site. I've been insulted and accused in ridiculous ways myriad times. Is that what this site is about?
The publisher and I found a manuscript about the BB. There was something really interesting in it. It was too harsh and "tabloidish" and mean spirited in the original form, so we turned it into something else, an insightful and interesting book about a band and the music we loved, same as you all, supposedly.
One of your members, Mtabor, (something like that) actually went out of his way to post a harsh and insulting review on Amazon and hasn't even read the Book. Really guys. Wow, hey tabor, get a life.
To the others on the site, thank you for your thoughtful and insightful comments. I learned a lot from many of you - get some better fact checkers for one thing. Ha. I maintain that Rocky got to see this great band from the inside, behind the curtain, if you will,  during a really interesting time in the bands history.  
Read it, don't read it. The world at large will make its judgement about the book, but keep this in mind. My and the publishers intentions come from a good place. Keep that in mind, please.
HNY 2019 to all of youse!



Sold. I'll buy your book and read it. But are ther any plans to make a Kindle edition? I live abroad and would prefer a version I could read on my Ebook, but if not I'll order the paperback.

17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1969-70 Copyright Extension Release Prediction Thread on: January 01, 2019, 01:11:51 AM
I can't imagine not paying for these and I think the quality of the digital downloads is outstanding. I might by a physical copy AND a digital download if it were available (because I just love the Beach Boys that much).

 I hope to heck we get bonus material through the "seventies" albums. I have derived so much enjoyment from all of the copyright extension releases. I get that there is no promo budget...You know, maybe the fans can help somehow with that?

At any rate, if they don't release it then some bootlegger will release it on the grey market in Europe. I'd rather my money go to Messrs. Boyd and LInnett and BRI than some shady character, personally, but one way or another what's already leaked is going to come out officially, at least.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: ANNOUNCING! SMiLE 1967 Mix by soniclovenoize (authentic reconstruction) on: December 25, 2018, 11:44:45 AM
Thank you, soniclovenoize. You rock to the uttermost. I definitely use your stuff in my own mixes -- especially when I cannot find stereo mixes on official release (and I have bought them all. At least once.)
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Keepin' the \ on: December 25, 2018, 03:36:17 AM
.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Smiley Smile Message Board Milestone - And General Words Of Thanks on: December 23, 2018, 07:56:36 AM
IN the future, everyone will have his or her own Beach Boys forum.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Smiley Smile Message Board Milestone - And General Words Of Thanks on: December 23, 2018, 12:38:57 AM
I'm just coming out of lurk mode to say that I am filled with dismay at the precarious position these archival releases seem to be in. The idea that the record companies or BRI or whoever might find even digital releases (which are totally fine by me) not worth the expense is heart breaking. All of that overshadows the message board drama, which, to be clear, is not  terribly interesting.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1968 Copyright Extension Release Thread on: December 14, 2018, 12:42:24 AM
Not available for purchase in my country.  Undecided Oh well, I can spend that money on the McCartney box, I guess.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: May 30, 2014, 01:06:25 AM
Hi, I haven't been visiting lately...has Craig Slowinski done his website yet? I'm a big fan of his...
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Looking back at Looking Back With Love on: March 06, 2014, 01:40:41 AM
Only if he's reunited with Fossett.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: March 04, 2014, 12:00:12 PM
It is a song best listened to in a sound proof room so that no one hears you listening to it,, but then it's OK.
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