The Smiley Smile Message Board

So it's 1971, and the Beach Boys want to include "Surf's Up" on the follow-up to Sunflower.

They want Brian to sing lead, but he refuses.

We know Carl ended up singing the first section over the existing backing track from 1966, and Brian's solo piano performance from 1966 was used for the second section.

But here's my question:

If they wanted to have Brian sing the whole song, why didn't they just use his 1966 solo piano performance for the entire song (since they were using part of it anyway, for the second section) and just create a new instrumental backing track for the first section?  Had they done so, they would have had a completed version of the song with Brian doing all the lead vocals.

All they had to do was what Phil Spector had done with some of the Beatles' "Let it Be" tracks--create new orchestrations for pre-existing performances.

Anyone have insight on this?

Desper told me the first half wasn't in as good of shape as the second so Carl had to redo the first part for sonic clarity.

I suspect nobody wanted to either spend the studio time or the money to recreate the backing track. In the end, they only had to add a moog bass and the vocals to complete the track.

I think your explanation makes a lot of sense, Roger.  Thanks!

Slightly on and slightly off topic: Does anyone think Carl sang better (like in Surf's Up) when he was trying to immitate Brian? I have always felt like in recordings such as Surf's Up, Good Vibrations, God Only KNows, etc... that Carl was trying to sing like Brian and sometimes to greater affect than Brian would have achieved.

Brian's doubling of the vocal on the first half of Surf's Up also is out of tune--the high notes are terrible. I'm sure there's no way they would have been willing to put that out, knowing they could just redo them and do a better job. This isn't meant to knock Brian, and I do like that version very much--but it wasn't meant to be released in that form, and frankly, it sounds like it.

Maybe I'm tone deaf--it sounds fine to me!  (Listening to it now, from the box set.)

One of the tracked vocals on the "do-mi-no" is slightly flat to my ears as well.

That's the one. The second one is worse than the first, and on both he's really wailing to get it out--not exactly his finest moment as far as tone is concerned. I'm sure if he had wanted it to be considered for release, he'd have done much better with it.

One other potential reason for not wanting to use the first part--and keep in mind, I have no idea whether it is true, but it's just a possibility--is that unless I'm mistaken (which I could well be) the piano and one of the vocals weren't done separately, so there would only be so much you could do with the mix because of the bleed. For the second part, it sounds nice to have such a prominent piano. But the first half had its own track. I wonder how much they could have (using the technology around at the time) minimized the piano part to bring out the other things they'd have wanted to do.

Actually I think the Brian demo is great vocally. What I don't like is the solo TV version. He just seems stoned to the gills and off key. I know some people love that but I played it for an impartial observer and she thought it was below Brian's pre 75 standard. Hope nobody throws rocks at me now lol.

I enjoy those demos / tv appearance, but they're just not the sort of thing you want to start with as basic tracks for studio use.

Weren't the band members keen to see something come out of the expensive SMiLE sessions too? Lots of session musicians played on the track, and to let it languish would have meant the money had been spent on nothing.

From my reading of the Seigal article, Brian cut the piano track first, then overdubbed one, maybe two vocal tracks (as it was at Columbia, very probably on to their 8-track).

Thanks, Andrew. If he did the piano first, then he certainly overdubbed two vocal tracks--it is definitely a doubled vocal. So as long as the piano didn't also include a vocal (which is what I was thinking was the case), then he had to have done two.

That might make sense if they'd paid for it themselves, or if their then-current record label had paid for it. 
But the original session was funded by Capitol, and the finished trak on record was (originally) released by Warners.  Capitol probably wrote it off as an expense, unless they charged it to the Boys' recording budget for their next album(s).  Probably the reason they could use it on a Warners release was that Warners gained control of all post "Party!" Beach Boys album masters when the Boys signed with them.   

A question related to this topic...

I read in several places that Brian objected to the finishing/release of "Surf's Up" in 1971, but I don't remember reading WHY? Anybody know?

I always had the impression that if any piece of SMiLE wasn't going to be done right, it couldn't be done at all. I don't think Brian wanted to see it parsed out piece by piece on different albums.

When you say "wasn't going to be done right", do you think he objected to the way this constructed version sounded, with Carl's lead vocal?

As far as being parsed out piece by piece, while I don't know how Brian felt about "Our Prayer" and "Cabinessence appearing on 20/20, didn't he participate in the recording of "Cool, Cool Water" on Sunflower?

I don't think it was the vocal. I believe a mid-70s BBC (?) radio documentary discusses how they ended up having Carl sing it because Brian wouldn't. So at least the first of Brian's objections must have been prior to Carl's vocal being done.

Yeah, I heard/read that account, where Brian actually tried (painfully hard as I recall the story said) a 1971 lead vocal, but wasn't satisfied with the results, so Carl ended up doing it. I just never heard/read anywhere that he wasn't happy with Carl's performance. Or could it be that he felt it was awkward to split the lead vocals up between the two? That's pure speculation on my part...

My pure speculation would just be that he wasn't into bringing up that song, which obviously was a key part of a troubling part of his life. Yeah, they used Cabinessence, Prayer, etc. before, but how much did HE have to do on those? For this, it was clearly far from finished and I would think he just didn't want to be a part of it, yet didn't want it done without him being a part of it, either.

And that, as I said, is total guesswork.

I'd also guess he never did a vocal take in '71. Again, a guess.

I think all Brian did in '71 was teach the group the CITFOM tag at the end, perhaps put down a guide vocal for that, as per Desper's account.  But it sounds like he wanted nothing to do with that material again.  It's amazing how nonchalant he is about these days.  "Oh, Surf's Up, that's a great song."  Completely forgetting that it flipped him out for 38 years.

And weren't Prayer and Cabinessence basically in the can already?  I know Prayer got some additional overdubs, but was Cabinessence overdubbed any in '68?

I asked Desper all these questions. He said Brian had no trouble working on the other Smile songs, but that Sur'f Up reminded him of Fire. The Todd Gold book is the only place that says Brian retried the lead. I really doubt that.

What I want to know is why they didn't use the "second movement" backing track that was recoorded at that late 1/67 session. Might that reel have already been lost in 1971?

Probably.  And eyewitness accounts seem to confirm that Brian wanted NOTHING to do with the '71 version until the very end, when he ran downstairs and participated in the CIFOTM tag.  As far as Brian not liking the '71 version, he was still saying that as late as the late '80s/early '90s, when he said something like "I can't believe they put that song out in that state", which implies he didn't like the way the track segued into the second half of the demo version. 

And then Brian "put that song out in that state" when he re-recorded it for BWPS....

Only sort of. The 71 track's B section is pretty sparse (moog, piano, maybe a bass). Whereas the BWPS version has alot of gorgeous orchestration. Pretty big difference, if you ask me.

Also, "Surf's Up" on BWPS has a much fuller group vocal arrangement during the first half and a much cleaner, fuller coda.

Regarding other "SMiLE" songs that appeared on previous releases: I'm certain that Brian considered "Cool, Cool Water" to be a new non-"SMiLE" related composition. He only felt uneasy about the "Water Chant" piece being included. It's possible that he felt "20/20" was really a collection of odds and ends (which it was) as opposed to a thematic album, so he would have less of a problem with "Cabin Essence" or "Our Prayer" being included as such.

I'd still like to know who's singing "That's why the child, hey hey" on the coda of the 1971 version.  It begins at 3:45 and repeats starting at 3:57.

Desper said it was Brian, but it doesn't sound anything like him.  For a while, I thought it was Jack Reilly!

If it isn't Jack Rieley, then I don't know who it could be. It just sounds like Jack. Listen to him on the coda for Marcella ("heeeeey Marcellaaaa") or on A Day In The Life Of A Tree. It's the same voice!

I'd think that's the easiest question to answer: they wanted Brian singing on the song, and he wasn't going to redo vocals. The original demo he did wouldn't have matched the old backing track.

It likely may have been.  Certainly the whereabouts of that reel have been speculated about...I have heard that quite a bit of SMILE stuff went missing in the '80s, but that one was probably long gone by '71 (destroyed by Brian?)

This assumption that the 1/23/67 session at Western was for the mythical 2nd movement - I'm not aware of any hard evidence that this is so. Have I missed something ?

When you folks refer to the second movement, are you talking about the second half of the song,or an actual second movement ?

The 2nd half of the song - "Dove-nested towers..." and thereafter.

As far as I can see , the assumption that a 2nd movement was recorded is based on the tagging of a November '66 session as "1st movement". Some here may recall that a few years back, on the old Cabin Essence MB, Domenic Priore popped up and claimed to have heard this tape (the 2nd movement) back in the late 70s, and was promptly reminded that in a recent edition of LLVS he'd firmly denied that it had ever been recorded or existed at all. He left, precipitately. Thus, as this is the only instance of anyone claiming the track exists, and there's no available documentary proof, I'm dubious it ever happened. Anyone care to comment (that is, prove me wrong with examples - this is what usually happens in these scenarios :-))

Typical Priore.

Here's something I copied from one of these message boards some time back:

Here's a post from Alan Boyd in response to a question about if
they ever found a tape of Surf's Up Pt. 2 in the vaults...


*******

I wish I could offer something a bit more concrete here...

I've heard about the existence of a tape of a full arrangement on that
second section of SURF'S UP. It's been described to me, third-hand.
Supposedly it's pretty weird, lots of strange horn and string parts.
But I haven't heard it.

We don't have it in the Beach Boys' tape library. And it's not among
Brian's tapes either.

There is an enormous amount of SMILE material that's missing. I
recently saw a photograph on Ed Roach's site of a tape shelf at Brother
Studio, late 1970s. Right there, along with safety 1/4" masters of all
the group's albums, is a tape labeled "BRIAN - DUMB ANGEL." Probably a
1/4" or 1/2". I nearly had a stroke when I saw that, and I immediately
called anyone and everyone who ever had access to tapes at Brother, and
asked what they knew about it. No one knew. What was on that reel?
Where is it now? It certainly wasn't listed in the 1985 inventory of
the group's tapes.

What WAS listed in that inventory are the many empty tape boxes from
the SMILE era, on titles like "Heroes and
Villains," "Cabinessence," "Surf's Up," "Vegetables," etc... they were
empty in 1985, they're empty today. I'm certain, however, that excerpts
from at least one of them (overdubs onto the last verse
of "Vegetables") showed up on one of the SOT discs. They're almost all
1/4" mixdowns. Other SMILE tracks were assembled onto some of the 1/2"
STACK-O-TRACKS assembly reels, and those SMILE songs are
also....missing.

Did Brian actually destroy some tapes back in the day? I think he just
might have...

Are there one-of-a-kind tapes that have been stolen and are now in the
hands of collectors? Yes...

Were there tapes that Brian somehow left behind at a studio after
working on them that have since found their way into the hands of
collectors? Probably...

Are there acetates of missing material in the hands of collectors
and/or people who were around at the time? Absolutely...

Are there people reading THIS now who may know where some of this
material now resides? Wouldn't surprise me in the least...

Would anyone "in the know" feel at all inclined to help us find some of
these missing tapes? I sure hope so....

(BRI is willing to pay for material, no questions asked, just in case
you're reading this and you happen to be holding onto a dub of the
second movement of SURF'S UP, hint hint, or anything else you know we
DON'T have, so please get in touch with me through Jon Hunt, OK?)

*sigh*

Your Friendly Neighborhood Vault Rat

Alan

Sound correct as there's a acapella-version of "Surf's up" on "Get the boot" with Brian's double tracked lead.

I think the reason that the 2nd movement theory has persisted is because there are more track sessions logged as "Surf's Up" than we have heard material from.

There's the first movement, the horn overdub, and then the mysterious session from Jan 23 that's logged as Surf's Up but doesn't match any of the instrumentation (based on the musicians present) for any part of Surf's Up we've ever heard.  Now, of course it could have ended up as a session for another song, but the specific instrumentation, in my mind, doesn't seem to match any Smile material.

To make matters more confusing, there was a SECOND session held on Jan 23, a half-hour after the first, logged as "Part One".  Was it Part One of "Surf's Up"?  Wasn't that the one from Nov 4 ?  Who knows.  The instrumentation used at this second Jan 23 session (17 musicians) seems to be mostly strings & horns, so if it was in fact an overdub onto the track cut earlier that day, it would seem to match that of the missing second movement that was described to Alan B. third-hand.  Personally, I believe the truth IS out there, but we may never know it in our lifetimes.

what was the instrumentation (or the personnel) listed on the contract sheets for the jan 23 session?

my bad.  found it.  it had fallen down the back of the net.

Studio: Western Recorders
Date & Hours of Employment: January 23, 1967 3:00 PM to 6:00 PM
Master No.: 57087
No. of Minutes: n/a
Title of Tunes: Surf's Up
Session Musicians: Hal Blaine, Diane Rovell, Charles D. Britz, Roy V. Caton, William E. Creen, James R. Horn, Jay Migliori, William Pitman, Lyle Ritz, Carl D. Wilson

so that's drums (HB), a contractor (DR), an engineer (CDB), trumpet (RVC), sax (WEG), sax (JRH), sax (JM), guitar or bass (WP), double bass (LR) and guitar/moral support (CDW).  that doesn't describe a 'strings and horns' track.  is this the session in question?

Fascinating. I could read this stuff for hours.

Anyone have the session personnel for "Part One" handy?  If the earlier session was for Surf's Up, potentially for a Part 2, maybe Brian decided it didn't match what he had already recorded and decided to rerecord the first movement as "Part One?"

On the other hand, since virtually every song for Smile had different "parts" Part One could have been for just about any song.  But the fact it came right after a Surf's Up session is suggestive.

Another thought to add fuel to the fire:

The Surf's Up "demo" recorded in December wasn't a demo at all - why doubetrack your vocal if that's the case?  This was done during filming for the TV doc but wasn't used, because it wasn't all one performance - the TV performance was done later in Brian's home.  The only explanation I keep coming back to is that Brian was considering using this solo piano/vocal performance as the album track, perhaps with overdubs (like strings) - making it a solo performance not unlike Caroline, No.

I don't have the exact quote at the moment, but Brian stated around January 1967 that he's thinking about releasing something that's just him with piano as B-side to "Heroes & Villains", so your theory makes sense. If you believe Keith Badman's book, the January '67 string overdub session was indeed for the solo performance, but Badman is Badman.

If memory serves, a couple years back Peter Reum posted something to the effect that the 2nd half of SU had been unearthed so-to-speak.  Then nothing....did he ever clarify this?  Does he post here?

Just because there a session is logged doesn't mean "any work" was really accomplished.  Clearly not a note was recorded at some sessions.  Bad vibs, paranoia, etc. certainly played more and more havoc with Brian in early 1967.  What did he really accomplish after 1/67...not much.

I always assumed that the solo SU performance at Columbia was for the cameras.  My dream is to see that raw footage.

edit for spelling

By the sounds of this, Brian was heavily involved by the end.

From the Jack Reiley thread - http://www.smileysmile.net/index.php/jack_rieley_speaks_part_one

RE: Attn: Jack Rieley (Surfs Up)

From: Jack Rieley
To: 'pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com' (pet -sounds@lists.primenet.com)
Reply-To: pet-sounds@lists.primenet.com
Date: Oct 15 1996 - 8:45pm

Rick,

Re-read my earlier response and you'll see I was referring to him complaining, wailing MOCK emotion.

Brian Wilson loved Surfs Up. He knew very well that it may be one of the most important pieces of music in this century. He was dying for Surfs Up to be acknowledged for what it is, but terrified that it would get ignored, discarded, lost, much as Heroes and Villains was virtually ignored years earlier.

In short, Brian Wilson lived in terror of public failure. A lot has been made of his drug use/abuse, which may indeed have had searing effects upon him. But it was the public failure of Heroes to to wow Capitol and thus wow the world that caused him to withdraw. When the withdrawal began to attract notice, Brian's keen senses picked up on the fact. Soon he was feeding off the crumbs of legend available to "Brian Wilson, eccentric recluse" -- a hideous second-best to the public acclaim he was denied.

No wonder that he was unsure of my plan to complete Surfs Up and release the track.

As related earlier, I changed the album title from Landlocked to Surfs Up. The shift was to principally honor the song's greatness. But the shift was also evidence to Brian that I was serious about making his work shine. At the same time, the re-titling served to prevent Brian from giving in to his terror.

The arrangement that you hear on the album resulted from many talks with Brian, and a careful examination of the real Smile tapes -- the originals. Carl and I got Brian's explicit support to remove the originals from the vault and take them to Carl's place on Coldwater, where the two of us listened to songs and snippets, full works and outtakes, night after night after night. Without even an engineer around, we tried mending and splicing the brittle multitrack recordings. Sometimes we succeeded. With the Fire tapes, which were there but damaged (and not by fire), we had to settle for long passages and short gaps. There's much more to say about Smile, of course, but this note is about Surfs Up.

The song was in several disjointed, uncompleted sections. Child was clearly intended to be the climax. After many nights of listening -- at least two with Brian on Coldwater with us -- we set out to construct and reconstruct. I first flirted with the thought Brian should sing the lead on the first section, but Brian insisted that Carl do it, and Carl was clearly thrilled. It was the right thing to do. The Brian solo section is of course constructed around Brian's televised appearance for Leonard Bernstein. Carl played the bottom end synth, I decided to cut all effects from Brian's voice on the title line. We had lots of musicians in to redo parts of the track that had been played badly. Recording went on for several weeks, with Brian very involved but Carl heading the effort. It was going to be a masterpiece. By the time we got to Child, some of the moving parts had Brian excited and active. He chose Carl for a couple, took on a two for himself, assigned two more to me, got Marilyn for still another. Desper seemed to realize he was recording something extraordinary: his acid humor was replaced by, ahh, reverence.

Credit for the brilliance of Surfs Up, the recorded song, must be shared by Brian Wilson, who composed that incredible crown jewel, and Carl Wilson, who guided and nurtured the amazing recording project, in addition to singing a truly spectacular lead vocal. My own role was to fight through Brian's terror with honor, respect and enthusiastic persistence, so that you all could hear Surfs Up.

- Jack

I find this quote to be particularly suspect. In listening to the finished recording, I hear the '66 backing track exactly as it appears on the GV Box Set with the moog bass overdubbed. If "lots of musicians" were brought in to redo parts, there's not much evidence on tape, unless the entire backing track was recut and performed identical to the one already in the can since '66.

Yeah, that's the first I've heard of this.  It does indeed sound suspect.  Perhaps we should take Andrew's advice.  Anybody got a few grains of salt I could borrow?

Interesting enough, Desper also remembered redoing parts with a lot of musicians and mentioned the damaged tapes from the original sessions.

Steve told me back in 1985 that they used the December 1966 recording pretty much as-was: the only additions were a moog bass part and Carl doubling Brian's vocal in a few places where it was iffy.

Jack's a great interview, but his take on a situation might not coincide too much with anyone elses - for example, absolutely everyone I've talked to, from Marilyn on down, remembers Brian being miserable in Holland and prone to staying in his house. Everyone except JFR III, that is.

"Without even an engineer around, we tried mending and splicing the brittle multitrack recordings."

I doubt very much Carl would do this without an engineer.

"Child was clearly intended to be the climax."

At least intended by Jack Reilly?  I've not heard any evidence, recorded or otherwise, that child was always planned as the tag.  It was a great idea though.


"The Brian solo section is of course constructed around Brian's televised appearance for Leonard Bernstein."

Wrong.  While a complete solo performance was filmed and televised, it was not the version used for the Surf's Up LP.

I love this thread. I imagine a second movement for Surf's Up recorded in 1967 would've sounded quite different from the BWPS version, perhaps more psychadelic. In all likelyhood it would've sounded better.

The Surf's Up 71 version doesn't sound good to me, but I like the way it was used in the beginning of American Band.

No big deal.

I'm gratified that a thread I started has lasted this long!  :)

Marilyn did say the same thing about Brian on the bicycle, but photos from then (the few I have seen) show him to be heavier then ever before. In fact Brian said in a 1976 interview that he had a second major breakdown in Holland. This is consistent with those who told me that he was never quite the same when he got back.

"We had lots of musicians in to redo parts of the track that had been played badly. "

this is an odd comment, not only because - as has already been pointed out - very little was added to the '66 recording, but because the '66 recording is impeccably played.  arguably the only slightly cronky bit in the recording is the basses/pianos going out of sync at the end of the first movement - which brian can be heard, on a session out-take, saying is the desired effect.

as far as my bat ears can discern, the '66 recording is made up of:

tack piano
piano
upright bass
electric bass
electric guitar
glockenspiel
4 french horns
trumpet
tambourine (8ths)
hi-hat (off-8ths)
jingles or keys or shells or similar (quarters)
brian's lead vocal (doubled)

to which was added in '71:

moog bass
hammond
carl's lead vocal
'bygone, bygone' backing vocals
'domino' harmony vocals
'are you sleeping' harmony vocals
'ooh' group vocals (beginning of second movement)
all those magnificent group vocals (child is father)

none of that requires 'lots of musicians' - in fact, it needs one keyboard player and a selection of beach boys.  still, it was 36 years ago, so i think rieley can be forgiven for getting his facts squiffy.

Speaking of the (very high) 'domino' harmony vocal, anyone know who sings that..?   (Apologies if this is going over old ground!)

The Domino is Carl.

But there's another very high harmony soaring above Carl's lead vocal.  Are you saying that's Carl doubling up?

I think I've read somewhere (probably this board) that this high harmony is sung by Carl, but that his vocals on that particular harmony were modified so they could sound that high.

There's also a cello on there, according to the 1966 AFM contract. 
I've wondered if some of the French horns were redone...on the mix of the '66 instrumental track, they sound really discordant in a couple of places (if you've heard it, you know where I mean), but on the finished '71 production, they sound very smooth.  They could just be mixed really low, but to my ears those parts sound re-recorded.  Also, more cellos could have been added and mixed in very subtly. 

is the cello a double bass logging mistake?  sure as eggs is (are) eggs, there's no cello on surf's up...

No, Jimmy Bond (the string/upright/double bass) is listed on the Nov. 4 basic track session, and Joe Saxon (cello) is listed on the Nov. 7 overdub session (along with the trumpet and French horn players). 

re: as far as my bat ears can discern, the '66 recording is made up of:

tack piano
piano
upright bass
electric bass
electric guitar
glockenspiel
4 french horns
trumpet
tambourine (8ths)
hi-hat (off-8ths)
jingles or keys or shells or similar (quarters)
brian's lead vocal (doubled)

to which was added in '71:

moog bass
hammond
carl's lead vocal
'bygone, bygone' backing vocals
'domino' harmony vocals
'are you sleeping' harmony vocals
'ooh' group vocals (beginning of second movement)
all those magnificent group vocals (child is father)

****

To my ears, the 66 instrumental recording was basically cut for the 1971 version (except for the piano).  To me, the 66 isntrumental portion is the 'First Movement' and when Brian starts to sing is the 'Second'.

By the way, I have a great boot recording of the 66 isntrumental '1st Movement' (with horns) and I think it's one of the most powerful pieces of music I have ever heard!!!!!!!!!!

Hmm, why would you need a boot recording of Surf's Up 1st movement - the instrumental track with horns is on the fifth disc of the Good Vibrations box set. 

Oh goodness, I did not know that.  Thanks BR!!!!!!

I have never heard people talk much about the instrumental track and why Brian never went back to it.  Though it has been said that it reminded Brian of the 'Fire' track.  Plus that the  vocal version(s) are so amazing.  I have also wondered why Brian didin't include this instrumental section/1st movement on BWPS.

Anyway, thanks again Bicyclerider!  Now I'm going to edit in the 1st movment into the 1971 release and make my own version.

this is bizarre.  apart from there being no audible cello on the finished track, it seems mighty odd to bring a cellist to this session, which is all the George Fell Into His French Horn stuff.  there's no sign of a cello on any of the slew of silly tapes from that session.  c-man, if you've got a copy of the AFM sheet for this date, is there any other info on it (like was Saxon dismissed early/stayed late/doubling)?

on the subject of session sheets, an AFM APB: has anyone got the listings for who's playing on the 'sixteen musicians' session from jan 23 1967?  the two sessions from this day are the missing bit of the surf's up puzzle: the first one with the drums, bass, two guitars, trumpet and three (probably) saxes - no sign of any of that in what's out there in bootland - and the 'sixteen musicians (mostly strings)' - also missing from bootland.

On the 11/4 session, Jimmy Bond is almost certainly playing a string bass.

On the 11/7 session, I'm looking... and no listing for Joe Saxon.

The AFM sheet I've got only lists 10 musicians (well, 8 really) - it's for the 3.00-6.00pm session.

thanks, AGD - i've got that one, i think: Hal Blaine, Roy Caton, Bill Green, James Horn, Jay Migliori, Bill Pitman, Lyle Ritz, Carl and the (non-muso) Chuck Britz and Diane Rovell.  it's the later session that i don't have anything for, except the vague 'sixteen musicians' and 'mostly strings' - any info appreciated.

Well, I'll be stripped naked & whipped with a wet noodle...where'd I get THAT from?
Actually, I know...I got it from a file I typed and saved off my copies of the AFM sheets,
rather than from the actual thing itself...who knows why I put Saxon's name there? 
SORRY...   ::)

I don't have an AFM sheet for the 6:30-9:30 session (the mysterious "Part One"), but I do have a Capitol Records "Popular Session Work Sheet", and it gives SOME of the names: 

Jesse Ehrlich (cello, arranger)
Ralph Schaeffer (violin, arranger)
Robert Hardaway (oboe, English horn)

These three are listed because they played "doubles", although there is a notation implying that the doubles were "denied".

BTW, I looked this up from my actual copy of the actual sheet, rather than my apparently dubious typed files thereof...   :)

Interesting - the only other case of doubles being requested and denied that I'm aware of was on the "George Fell..." session, when Brian tried to get the horn players paid for ther 'vocal contribution'.

at least we'll know this session if it ever surfaces in bootville, then.  oboe/english horn (cor anglais to us brits, inexplicably) isn't an instrument brian made very much use of.  the only notable example that springs to mind is I'm Waiting For The Day, where a cor anglais doubles the vocal line in the verses.

Another of Brian's productions that utilizes the English horn is "Kiss Me Baby"...along with a French horn...maybe Brian was trying to show some impartiality to the European nationalists?  ;)  Now if he'd just recorded that track on the African horn, he could've made it more universal... :lol

¨

I found the exact quote now
Brian interviewed by Tracy Thomas - published February 18, 1967:

“I’m doing the final mix on the A-side tonight, but I can’t decide what to do on the other side. The easiest thing would be to pull something off ‘Pet Sounds’, but I feel that that would be cheating the record-buyer. On the other hand, I want to keep as much of ‘Smile’ a surprise as possible. I may end up just recording me and a piano-I tried it last night in the studio. It would be an interesting contrast, anyway.”

Ok, so this doesn't have to be "Surf's Up" - my fault. Now it would be interesting to know when Tracy Thomas interviewed Brian.

The final mix on the Aside is the cantina Heroes, which has a known mix date, although I don't have it in front of me - February 10th or 15th kind of rings a bell. 

Ok, that would be February 10. Let's see, the day before Brian recorded "Teeter Totter Love" with Dailey and a vocal session for H&V with Mike... It seems like he wasn't talking about "Little Red Book", which was my main worry.

The 'Cantina' version of H & V was mixed on 30th Jan 67 (if memory serves me right). That tape is missing so they had to use a safety backup master, dated Feb 10th '67 on the tape box, for the released version included on the GV Box and SS/WH 2 fer.

So Thomas interviewed Brian on 30th Jan' 67...probably.

 8)

Didn't they master the "Cantina" Heroes from an acetate (not a tape copy)?  That would explain the less-than-glorious sonics. 

The safety copy was indeed made on Feb 10th, as was the mix of the original cantina version, but the tape box of the original is empty.

The date 30th Jan' 67 I got from Dave Prokopy's SMiLE notes.

"the Feb 10 date that was attached to the mix in the SS/WH two-fer was taken from a 'protection master' -- in other words, a backup copy -- made on that date of the Jan. 30 mix."