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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 09, 2006, 06:22:12 PM



Title: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 09, 2006, 06:22:12 PM
The Beatles got their own book, about their equipment:

(http://www.bassemporium.com/images_products/00330993.gif)

So recently I've been thinking about cataloging the Beach Boys' gear, for fun.  You know.

But Before I begin, is anybody besides me actually interested in this topic?


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on January 09, 2006, 06:25:04 PM
Very much so.



Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: punkinhead on January 09, 2006, 06:28:52 PM
thermin, brian's organ from hawaii, piano in the sand, denny's drums; more interesting than beatles stuff.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on January 09, 2006, 08:03:42 PM
Comment to aeijtzsche --

Sounds like a good project for you.  Let me know if I can help you.  Get in touch with Steve Korthof.  He'll know more about their early gear than anyone else.
  ~swd


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: nosticker on January 09, 2006, 08:25:23 PM
The Beatles got their own book, about their equipment:

(http://www.bassemporium.com/images_products/00330993.gif)

So recently I've been thinking about cataloging the Beach Boys' gear, for fun.  You know.

But Before I begin, is anybody besides me actually interested in this topic?

I'm very into it.  I've read Beatles Gear several times.  Truth be told, on other websites, my name is "equipment dork".


Dan


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Emdeeh on January 09, 2006, 08:43:04 PM
I'm interested, especially about all the guitars they used.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: mike thornton on January 09, 2006, 10:17:17 PM
always interested. great topic/project, long overdue.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Daniel S. on January 09, 2006, 10:51:17 PM
Very interested.  ;D


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 09, 2006, 11:48:57 PM
I'm interested, especially about all the guitars they used.

If you have any questions or photos with Beach Boys-related guitars to identify, post 'em and we'll take a shot at ID'ing them!

A book sounds like a good idea, but where do you stop with the research? How many people out there would want to know what kind of bass was used on the 1995 tour, for example, versus how many would want information on what organ stop is heard on Good Vibrations? The beautiful thing about the Beatles Gear book was the limited time period he had to focus on - 10 years or so with the Beatles with almost-near-mythical instruments made famous by the four band members, versus 4-5 decades of various "Beach Boys" formations, some more vital (and more interesting) than others. And would you include the instruments of the session players who played on many of their hit recordings in place of the Beach Boys as a band?

I'd buy the book, definitely. And if I ever find out the story of Kessel's mandolin-guitar hybrid, I hope to get a credit in the "special thanks to..." section. :)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Popka on January 10, 2006, 01:03:09 AM
I have a copy of the Guitar Player magazine from 1976(?) with a Carl interview in it. I could probably scan it if needed. Also, I have a friend who has played a Les Paul jr and a Telecaster (Paisley tele - I've never seen a photo of Carl playing it before) which belonged to Carl. He has some memories of those guitars and a few others.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on January 10, 2006, 04:50:08 AM
Great topic. I also am very interested in the different instruments they used...


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Mitchell on January 10, 2006, 06:16:41 AM
Go for it!


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Don't Back Down on January 10, 2006, 06:54:34 AM
there was a whole thread of the instruments that the Beach Boys & Brian used on the "old" board.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Evenreven on January 10, 2006, 07:02:01 AM
So recently I've been thinking about cataloging the Beach Boys' gear, for fun.  You know.

But Before I begin, is anybody besides me actually interested in this topic?
Not only interested, but I think you should write a book about it. Seriously. You can and you should. I'd buy it.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 10, 2006, 07:08:17 AM
OK, let's do it.



Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: JRauch on January 10, 2006, 07:14:33 AM
I would be very interested in a list of ALL instruments that were used on SMiLE.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: donald on January 10, 2006, 08:36:44 AM
I'd read that book.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 10, 2006, 08:44:24 AM
Well, unless somebody that reads this is a rather philanthropic publisher, I doubt there will be a book, but hoefully a nice eArticle.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 10, 2006, 09:10:01 AM
I would be very interested in a list of ALL instruments that were used on SMiLE.

If you mean the Smile sessions from 1966-67, unfortunately I think such a list may be impossible. Trying to find the makes and models of instruments used on those sessions would mean finding out what instruments the session players brought into the studio...and folks like myself and Josh have been trying to piece that information together for several years with limited success. There just aren't enough photos and too many fading memories.

The best sources I've found were the Jasper Dailey studio photos (probably the best firsthand source of all), and various interviews/articles like the 1995 "Guitar Player" Beach Boys article. But even that article only had information like "I usually used a Telecaster for rock sessions back then..." ;) Not enough detail!

For the 2004 Smile sessions, though, it shouldn't be quite as hard...


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 10, 2006, 09:31:03 AM
Craig, I think the best way to approach the session musician angle, for Smile 66 or anything throughout the Beach Boys 60s career, would be to have a section devoted to the general practices of the session musicians.  Like you say, it's impossible to be terribly specific; it's not like the Beatles where many of the actual instruments used are in museums.  I think it would be possible to get a pretty accurate "typical guitar player arsenal."  It could be a fun challenge though.

 


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 10, 2006, 09:32:03 AM
BTW, I would love to see the Carl Wilson "guitar player" interview.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Evenreven on January 10, 2006, 09:41:52 AM
Well, unless somebody that reads this is a rather philanthropic publisher, I doubt there will be a book, but hoefully a nice eArticle.
Well, of course the Beatle interest is greater, but still... Why not? For me, a Beach Boys Gear book would be much more interesting than a Beatle gear book. Hopefully there's an abundance of philanthropic publishers on smileysmile.net this instant.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 10, 2006, 11:17:29 AM
Craig, I think the best way to approach the session musician angle, for Smile 66 or anything throughout the Beach Boys 60s career, would be to have a section devoted to the general practices of the session musicians.  Like you say, it's impossible to be terribly specific; it's not like the Beatles where many of the actual instruments used are in museums.  I think it would be possible to get a pretty accurate "typical guitar player arsenal."  It could be a fun challenge though.

 

This is true - the general practices would be one way of approaching the topic, but even with that it's just too bad more of those musicians didn't document (or at least reveal) as many specifics as someone like Tommy Tedesco. When the time is right, I'd like to compile his full run of Guitar Player "Studio Log" columns, where he listed every instrument he used on various sessions that were the 'spotlight' of each month. I'll have to scan over at some point and see if he ever featured a Beach Boys session.

And the challenge I've found is that those guys as standard practice might cart over a dozen instruments to any given session (and get paid cartage fees by the union, of course...). So an interview like the Guitar Player "Wrecking Crew" spot might have them saying "I played a Telecaster..." but that is only one part of the story.

The whole revelation about Al Casey's red Hagstrom guitar being spotted by a producer and used by Elvis on the '68 Comeback illustrated this issue to me in a big way...I think that article said Casey had a full arsenal of guitars in rolling cases, including the Hagstrom, which he'd have delivered to the studios. I don't know if anyone, including guys like Casey himself, ever made note of the full setup.

If there is a genuine interest in getting that kind of information on the session players, the sources will be tough but may be available. In comparison, the guitars played by Al and Carl on stage, for example, are relatively easy to research.

keep me posted on what kind of info you might need from that area...


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on January 10, 2006, 12:26:52 PM
Comment to aeijtzsche  --

You will find most of the remaining guitars that were used for early recordings such as the "Surfer Girl" and "Wouldn't It Be Nice" period still at Alan Jardine's Red Barn Studio at Big Sur, CA.  Suggest you ask on Alan Boyd's thread and get details from him.  Al Jardine knows the history of each instrument. Most are up in a loft to the right of the control room over an isolation booth.  Some road-used guitars are not in cases and hanging on hooks up on the wall. Carl's estate may have some other instruments, that is, contact his children. Also with regard to Denny's drums -- his kids may know. I don't think the company has anything in storage. I believe Bruce and Mike have all new or use their band members for instrumention. Mark L. will know where Brian's white Baldwin organ is located. Many specialized instruments were rented for sessions so their history is only known by people like Steve Korthof. The chopped white Hammond B3 was sold many years ago. 
~swd   


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 10, 2006, 12:31:34 PM
Steve, those are all great suggestions.  This could turn out to be much more "serious" and "official" than I original intended.  Which is exciting.

Still, no book offers rolling in...   ;)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on January 10, 2006, 01:12:03 PM
BTW, I would love to see the Carl Wilson "guitar player" interview.


I second that....

BTW this sounds more interesting with each new read imo. If a book, and aeijtzsche, I'd be the first one to buy it,  shouldn't happen, it would be great to have a thread or section on this board about this topic.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 10, 2006, 01:18:00 PM
Maybe Chuck could publish it as a "document" or something.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Popka on January 10, 2006, 02:30:47 PM
I'll try and scan the Carl interview from Guitar Player over the next few days. 

Many years ago I was able to spend some time with Tommy Tedesco after he had given a clinic for Fender. I did ask him a few questions about the sessions he played on for the BB. He stated that his main guitar on those sessions, was a Telecaster. I asked him if it was the one which is covered in signatures and messages from other studio players, and he confirmed that it was. I have a colour photo of that guitar somewhere - I'll try and find it.



Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: nosticker on January 10, 2006, 08:18:39 PM
FWIW, I've seen pics of Dennis with several different setups over the years--Rogers, Camco(obvious from endorsement ads), Slingerland, Premier, and Yamaha at the end.
Maybe Mike Kowalski would know some more?  He mentioned that Denny gave him one of the Yamaha kits in a recent interview.



Dan


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 11, 2006, 11:15:14 AM
I'll try and scan the Carl interview from Guitar Player over the next few days. 

Many years ago I was able to spend some time with Tommy Tedesco after he had given a clinic for Fender. I did ask him a few questions about the sessions he played on for the BB. He stated that his main guitar on those sessions, was a Telecaster. I asked him if it was the one which is covered in signatures and messages from other studio players, and he confirmed that it was. I have a colour photo of that guitar somewhere - I'll try and find it.



Maybe this is subject for another thread, but I have to ask about that Telecaster...before that, I really regret not having the opportunity (financial and otherwise) to be in California when Tommy was teaching at GIT and giving clinics. I got quite a lot out of his instructional video and all his magazine columns, and by all accounts his live clinics and appearances were great. Back on topic...

I read about the Mike Nesmith session in late '67 where Tommy, having made so much money in overtime on the sessions (Nesmith was literally throwing 1967 Monkee money around to avoid taxes somehow...), decided to pull a joke on the studio band on one of the last sessions. When the take ended, he threw his guitar up into the air, and it came crashing down to the floor, breaking apart. The story I heard was that this guitar which he broke was his main Telecaster from all those 60's rock sessions, and that his wife either had or still has that guitar framed on her wall. I think Hal Blaine mentioned this framed guitar as well in an interview or his book.

I'm assuming the guitar with all the signatures is a different Telecaster, and would love to see those photos!

And here we have yet another instance of these session players saying they played a Fender Telecaster on these various legendary sessions...  :)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: audiodrome on January 13, 2006, 05:55:29 PM
Great Idea!

This is my setup for when I do my Beach Boys tribute band - All Summer Long. We all try to be as authentic as we can - soundwise...

[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 13, 2006, 07:19:56 PM
Nice.  I lust after all three of those guitars.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Susan on January 14, 2006, 06:14:17 PM
It sounds like an excellent project.  I would suggest that you outline it - see how you might lay it out - then start to fill in the outline with information.  No need to decide what it will be until it becomes what it will.  Which leaves time for those philanthropic BB fans to step forward!
;-)

I know someone who might be able to help you with Denny's drums...drop me an email and i'll see if i can set up a contact for you.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Charles LePage @ ComicList on January 16, 2006, 07:15:10 PM
Maybe Chuck could publish it as a "document" or something.

Yes, maybe Chuck could, but I'd need the article first.  :)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 17, 2006, 01:46:55 PM
Well, we have to start somewhere, so I'm going to list some instruments associated with the boys.  One thing I wonder about is if they used only their stage instruments in the studio, or if there were unseen studio instruments.  Please feel free to add info, correct anything, add specific details, etc.  This will only be the beginning.


Carl:

Early info needed

White Fender Jaguar, primary stage six-string until about 66, I think.

White Fender XII.  You can see a few pictures of Carl with it in the Badman book.  I think he must have used this before he got into Rickenbackers.

Fireglo Rickenbacker 360/12s:  His first is what is now called the 360/12v64.  Flat-top.  Then he went to what the modern 360/12 looks like, with the carved top, and a little brighter finish, "R" tailpiece.  Foskett mentioned that Carl had at least four 360/12s.

White Fender Telecaster with Bigsby:  You can see plenty of this guitar watching footage from 67-the end of the decade.  Seemingly took over as Carl's prefered on-stage six string guitar.

Guild Starfire VI:  I think you can see this during Lei'd in Hawaii.  He didn't use it for too long, I don't think.  Some of '68.

Epiphone 360TD Rivera 12 (more than one?):

Jeff Fosket:  "His favorite one had the headstock broken off and when the factory sent it back to him, it had a Gibson 12 String neck and hence people assumed it was a Gibson.

Blonde Gibson 335: I'm not sure the dates on this one.

Al:

White Fender Stratocaster:  Must have been Al's only main guitar for all the early years.  It's in almost every performance clip pre-1967.  You'll see Al swap guitars with Carl occasionally on stage.

Red Fender Stratocaster:  This seems to have replaced the White strat about '67.  You can see Al still playing it at the House studio on the AB "Time to get Alone" footage.

Al must have either borrowed some of Carl's semi-hollow body 12 strings or got his own.

Les Pauls:  No idea the dates, SATP:ST/Holland era.

Brian:

Fender Precision Bass:  The famous white one.  I get the sense that when Brian left the road, both this bass and the Sunburst version of it became "the band's" property, as you can see Bruce playing the white bass, as well as Al on stage at one point. 

Along those lines, the group seems to have owned several basses for general use, Bruce had a Blue Fender Precision, you can see it on the California Girls performance video on Endless Harmony, and also on some live performance video from the 20/20 era.  If not elsewhere.

Bruce and Carl played Hofner "Beatle Bass" and a Hofner rip-off at Lei'd, I don't know the exent of their use.

Dennis:

I really don't know anything about Dennis' drums, live or in the studio.  I need to research that more.

More to come, contributions welcome.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Emdeeh on January 17, 2006, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: aeijtzsche
Carl:
White Fender Telecaster with Bigsby:  You can see plenty of this guitar watching footage from 67-the end of the decade.  Seemingly took over as Carl's prefered on-stage six string guitar.

If this is the one he played during his 1981 solo tour, it's the one he called "Old Yeller" and it's a very early production model.

Quote
Epiphone 360TD Rivera 12 (more than one?):

At least two of them, both with Gibson headstocks. He used them in pairs during shows, with the guitar tech keeping one ready to go at all times.

Quote
Blonde Gibson 335: I'm not sure the dates on this one.

Carl had two of those too, although he seems to have retired one of them in the late '80s-early '90s.

Quote
Al must have either borrowed some of Carl's semi-hollow body 12 strings or got his own.

At least one of his own, I think.


Here's an old post I saved from Billy Hinsche on Carl's guitars, from a now-defunct message board. It goes into some detail on Carl's gear:

Re: Carl's guitars
Posted by Billy Hinsche on March 30, 1998 at 08:49:10:

I have been trying in vain to post this message for a few days. Apologies for posting it in this manner. This is in response to questions asked of me further down the board: When I first met Carl in '65 he was playing a Rickenbacker 360 Fireglow with a Fender Dual Showman amp. He also owned a Rickenbacher 360/ DBV64, a 360/12 and a Rose Morris designation #1993 with a dot neck and an F hole. He used a Guild Starfire VI at times (six string). His main axe became his Blonde Gibson 335 Custom/355 neck and Bigsby tremelo. He had the first production model "Olympic White" Fender Stratocaster. He called it "Old Yeller" when the color faded over time. At home he played a Cherry Red Gibson Dove and had a custom hand-made David Russel Young/a butterfly on the headstock (both six string acoustic). In the seventies he used my Epiphone Sheraton on the live album and on tour. He began using a Epiphone 360 TD Riviera/ a Gibson neck and slim "Johnny Smith" pickups (12 string) in the eighties. He had several of these for backup. He also had a Blonde Gibson 335 dotneck reissue (backup for the A system) and a Blonde 345 (backup for the B system). He played a black Takamine acoustic six string with built-in electronics for "Heaven" in concert. He had a white solid body electric six string made by Charvel (?) It is pictured in both the ESQ and BBFC newsletters this month. Before I elaborate on amps, etc. I want to see if I can now post this message. Thanks to Jeff Foskett for helping me with some of the details contained herein. Billy Hinsche


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: audiodrome on January 18, 2006, 06:47:55 AM
I think he meant first production model Olympic White Fender Jaguar. That would have been a '62 (I have a '63 Olympic White Jaguar). I've never seen a picture of Carl with an Olympic White Strat (or any Strat for that matter).


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 18, 2006, 12:19:37 PM
I think the "Old Yeller" strat was aquired much later, in the 80s or something.  It's definitely a strat.

EmDeeh, did Billy ever actually post more about Amplifiers?  That's a big gap in my knowledge base.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Mark H. on January 19, 2006, 12:03:25 PM
I read an interview with Carl and he said that he got the "335" cheap 2nd hand in 1969.  This guitar became his main stage axe.  He did rotate in a strat for some tunes.  Photos from 1970 show the band playing through silver face Fender Twin Reverbs.

Brian's first bass was the Sunburst model...must have been a 61.

Having seen lots of shows over the years should mention:

Ed Carter rotated from a Gibson Les Paul to a P-bass.  Never saw him play a Fender.

Billy Hinche was a strat guy into a Yamaha amp most of the shows I saw.

Jeff Foskett seems to have been the Rick 12 string guy during his foray with the band.

Blonde was a Les Paul guy...P-90 pups.

Other interesting notes:

Carl plays a Hofer or Hofner look-a-like bass in Hawaii 1967.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Jeff Mason on January 19, 2006, 03:43:50 PM
The Beatles' name is such that they get a published book at the drop of a hat.  Something more specific and substantial is needed in the BB world.

Perhaps what we need is a BB anthology of sorts.  Instead of Josh writing a full book, he could be writing a chapter or two of a larger book.  Surely others here would go in with him in compiling a larger more general book on the BB as a reference.  You get enough stuff in there and there surely would be a publisher.  We already have a sessions/day by day for the band, so let's see -- get their gear in one place.  Add in a chapter on recording methodology which lists out the studios that Brian would use and expands upon the home studio setups post-Smile.  A chapter could give biographical details on the session musicians used by Brian over the years.  You could have a chapter on the touring band over the years and the styles and sample set lists (I would LOVE that chapter).  You get 5 or 6 people together to write it, and one person to edit the whole thing together, I would bet you could find a small music press to print it.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Jonas on January 19, 2006, 04:20:44 PM
Recording Gear and Techniques is definitely a must...and you have the right people here!

If this isnt in another book (I havent read any BB books yet), Id love to see the vocal techniques, where they stood in front of the microphone, the order of putting harmonies together, etc. That would be neat, imo.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 19, 2006, 04:33:59 PM
Jeff, that is a really, really good idea.  Practical too.  I can tell you now that I would not be a good candidate to head something like that up, but if somebody reading this feels like they would be, let's try it.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Reverend Joshua Sloane on January 19, 2006, 05:51:56 PM
There's a picture of Brian from the Hawaii 1967 thing playing that "Beatle" Bass.

Question: Did Brian keep any instrument other than his Piano in his home?


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: NimrodsSon on January 19, 2006, 06:26:55 PM
Mark L. will know where Brian's white Baldwin organ is located.

That's exactly what I've been wondering for quite a while. I believe I'll go over to his thread and ask him. I'm assuming it's probably not still in Brian's possession, but it can't have dropped off the face of the earth, and I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to destroy it.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: NimrodsSon on January 19, 2006, 06:28:24 PM
By the way, Aiztrgoiyugsaitylsufg, this is a great idea!


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: NimrodsSon on January 19, 2006, 06:32:31 PM
There's a picture of Brian from the Hawaii 1967 thing playing that "Beatle" Bass.

Question: Did Brian keep any instrument other than his Piano in his home?

An organ or two, plus all of the groups instruments when the studio was at his house. There's that picture of him playing a Hammond organ with all the dolls or whatever they are in the SMiLE tour booklet.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Emdeeh on January 19, 2006, 08:17:39 PM
Billy Hinsche has an interview with Carl on his website, where they discuss gear.

The interview can be found at:
http://www.billyhinsche.com/story4.html



Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 20, 2006, 03:06:51 AM
Cool article.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on January 20, 2006, 08:01:44 AM
Cool article.

Indeed !


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Big Bri on January 20, 2006, 11:35:22 AM
Aeijtzsche,
  Great idea putting together the BB's gear.Has anyone looked inside the "old" double LP of "Beach Boys In Concert '73"??  The pictures are much bigger than the CD.
 Dennis is shown playing an early model MOOG Synth.Someone mentioned Silver-faced Fender Twins.I also have the 1976 Guitar Player issue with Carl and I'll see what I can find.I remember him talking about tunings and string gauges in that issue.Been awhile.
Brian


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Susan on January 20, 2006, 12:32:08 PM
Hm.  Don't know where my post went...but in terms of the larger project - a one-stop BB reference book - i think it's a great idea.  I hereby offer my services as editor, because my own knowledge of BB minutiae is not worth repeating, but i love to edit and revise writing.  So...keep that in mind, all who decide to contribute.

And if nobody else wants to act as project manager, i suppose i would be willing to do that, too.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on February 13, 2006, 09:51:34 AM
Anything new on this, aeijtzsche ?  I think the topic is too interesting to let it go down.... ;)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: c-man on February 13, 2006, 10:40:11 AM
Dennis also used Zeco drums for a few years, and as late as 1982 had kept a set to record on (according to an interview Carl did that year with Geoffrey Himes for "Musician" magazine, published the following year).

C-Man


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on February 13, 2006, 10:42:32 AM
Dennis also used Zeco drums for a few years, and as late as 1982 had kept a set to record on (according to an interview Carl did that year with Geoffrey Himes for "Musician" magazine, published the following year).

C-Man

You got that interview? Could you scan it and post it here?


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 13, 2006, 12:57:28 PM
Quote
Anything new on this, aeijtzsche ?  I think the topic is too interesting to let it go down....

Nothing new, it is too interesting to let go, but unfortunately whatever chemical imbalance I'm apparently afflicted with causes me to lose interest in even things I find terribly interesting.  So I don't know if this will go any farther or not.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: nosticker on February 13, 2006, 02:30:02 PM
Dennis also used Zeco drums for a few years, and as late as 1982 had kept a set to record on (according to an interview Carl did that year with Geoffrey Himes for "Musician" magazine, published the following year).

C-Man

Don't you mean Zickos, the acrylic drums?


Dan


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Surfer Joe on February 13, 2006, 02:46:26 PM
aeijtzsche, please don't let this slip away- it's a great idea, and you should think BOOK.  Books don't always get published just because they're a great commercial idea- they also happen when the writer pursues something he's passionate about and believes in.  You've also got a great support group right here at this site.  I'm personally willing to help you keep yourself motivated by coming over to your house and  tossing you a fish every time you complete a new chapter.

A project like this, in which you already have the priceless endorsement of Steve Desper as a letter of introduction, would enable you to interview people like Billy Hinsche, Steve Korthof, Hal Blaine, Carol Kaye, and Al Jardine- that's gotta be a dream job.

I suggest that you begin by compiling all the information you have, and then adding to it whatever's within easy reach, and then outlining what you need next and where to get it.  In other words, the project can organize itself as you go, which will make it much less intimidating.

By the time you publish this you'll know that the audience in much larger than just the Beach Boys fan club.  All kinds of band people, Fender freaks, and surf music lovers will be interested. Do it.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: c-man on February 13, 2006, 05:51:31 PM
Dennis also used Zeco drums for a few years, and as late as 1982 had kept a set to record on (according to an interview Carl did that year with Geoffrey Himes for "Musician" magazine, published the following year).

C-Man

Don't you mean Zickos, the acrylic drums?
Dan

Not sure...could be...but "Zecos" is the way it was spelled in the interview, and I just dropped the "s" the same way I would if I was saying "a set of Camco drums" instead of "Camcos".   Back then, I hadn't heard of Camcos or Zecos, despite having been a drummer myself a few years earlier!  Since then, of course, I've seen the Dennis Wilson-endorsed Camco ads.  But Zecos, or Zickos, I know nothing of.  Were these the cool see-through drums Dennis played in the late '70s?

C-man



Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: nosticker on February 13, 2006, 07:11:20 PM
Dennis also used Zeco drums for a few years, and as late as 1982 had kept a set to record on (according to an interview Carl did that year with Geoffrey Himes for "Musician" magazine, published the following year).

C-Man

Don't you mean Zickos, the acrylic drums?
Dan

Not sure...could be...but "Zecos" is the way it was spelled in the interview, and I just dropped the "s" the same way I would if I was saying "a set of Camco drums" instead of "Camcos".   Back then, I hadn't heard of Camcos or Zecos, despite having been a drummer myself a few years earlier!  Since then, of course, I've seen the Dennis Wilson-endorsed Camco ads.  But Zecos, or Zickos, I know nothing of.  Were these the cool see-through drums Dennis played in the late '70s?

C-man


The very same.  Zickos(always plural) are even made today, albeit improved.  They were actually the first to come out with an acrylic drum, though Ludwig got the most attention, followed somewhere by Fibes.  Slingerland and Sonor also made acrylics for a while.

Camco morphed into the omnipresent DW drums that we know today(be glad I spared you the long version!) :)

Dan


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: c-man on February 13, 2006, 08:03:51 PM
Dennis also used Zeco drums for a few years, and as late as 1982 had kept a set to record on (according to an interview Carl did that year with Geoffrey Himes for "Musician" magazine, published the following year).

C-Man

Don't you mean Zickos, the acrylic drums?
Dan

Not sure...could be...but "Zecos" is the way it was spelled in the interview, and I just dropped the "s" the same way I would if I was saying "a set of Camco drums" instead of "Camcos".   Back then, I hadn't heard of Camcos or Zecos, despite having been a drummer myself a few years earlier!  Since then, of course, I've seen the Dennis Wilson-endorsed Camco ads.  But Zecos, or Zickos, I know nothing of.  Were these the cool see-through drums Dennis played in the late '70s?

C-man


The very same.  Zickos(always plural) are even made today, albeit improved.  They were actually the first to come out with an acrylic drum, though Ludwig got the most attention, followed somewhere by Fibes.  Slingerland and Sonor also made acrylics for a while.

Camco morphed into the omnipresent DW drums that we know today(be glad I spared you the long version!) :)

Dan

Too late...I'd already seen the "long version" online some months back.  But thanks for trying!  :)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on June 19, 2006, 04:46:07 AM
Did you see the news on the uncanny-blog  about Al's signature Strat ? We had that topic some time ago, but then it didn't seem as clear I believe....


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Paul Childs on June 19, 2006, 09:04:58 AM
There is a picture of them at the moment on the  'brian wilson-fans.com' message board under 'Brian on drums' and in the picture Carl is playing a white Fender X11 twelve string, it can be seen if you look closely.

Also while I'm logged in, on the back cover of 'Pet Sounds' one of the pictures of them on stage shows them with what look like VOX AC30 amplifiers, I don't know if they are? 


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Surfer Joe on June 19, 2006, 08:21:14 PM
As this topic comes back up, it's worth pointing out, aeijtzsche, that your position for writing this book has dramatically improved recently.  You should really be thinking about it.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on June 19, 2006, 10:06:44 PM
Yeah, I know...


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Foster's Freeze on March 25, 2014, 07:12:24 AM
Never a bad time to revisit the past right?  Hello 2006!

So, what ever became of our gear info quest?  Was any of the info collected kept anywhere other than this thread?



Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: punkinhead on March 25, 2014, 09:27:29 AM
Idk about the post, but a dern shame this never materialized.
I know there's some basic info in Jon's BB FAQ book about their preferred instruments.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: bringahorseinhere? on March 25, 2014, 02:11:33 PM
I could be dearly wrong, but I think Carl used a sunburt Stratocaster in Melbourne in 1992.....

I believe he used it on one song, 'hot fun in the summertime'......

didn't see it mentioned earlier, perhaps I missed it...

RickB


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Foster's Freeze on May 12, 2014, 02:45:48 PM
Yeah, I know...

Blast from the past update......?

Still have your notes from the info you collected?  Post them here so we at least can compare and discuss what you had to that point.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Emdeeh on May 12, 2014, 03:19:38 PM
I could be dearly wrong, but I think Carl used a sunburt Stratocaster in Melbourne in 1992.....

Justyn Wilson owns (and uses) that guitar now.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: bringahorseinhere? on May 12, 2014, 04:19:52 PM
actually I believe I have a few pics from the show, with one definitely with the strat......

but the images are terribly blurry, done with a 'shotty' camera......

pre digital folks.....  ::)

RickB


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: kookadams on May 13, 2014, 12:54:19 PM
FWIW, I've seen pics of Dennis with several different setups over the years--Rogers, Camco(obvious from endorsement ads), Slingerland, Premier, and Yamaha at the end.
Maybe Mike Kowalski would know some more?  He mentioned that Denny gave him one of the Yamaha kits in a recent interview.



Dan
dennis first had a champagne sparkle Gretsch, then mostly Rogers and Camco in the 60s... a Zickos in the 70s and lastly a black Yamaha... altho I have seen photos of him using Premier, Sonor and Ludwig...


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Foster's Freeze on June 17, 2014, 10:02:28 AM
Bumping in hopes that if any info was collected for this in the past, it can be posted here even if it's not complete.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: rocky1023 on July 07, 2014, 08:51:27 PM
This is some info on Denny's drums, I spoke to his son, who was in a band called In Bloom, via email. I asked about the Zickos drums, and he indeed has them, in fact they were on loan to a exhibit in LA until recently. He told me that he found them in one of the band warehouses, and they were in need of repair. The Jardine's had them for a while too. Again this info was given to me by the son.

I spoke with Bobby Figeroua after a Al show and he told me that Dennis used to hit so hard he would break the drums, the Black Yamahas were always getting new mounts and replacement toms because he broke them.


Rocky!


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: NateRuvin on July 20, 2015, 08:30:11 AM
I understand that this is a very old thread, but I still think this is a great idea. I'd love to contribute, and I'm sure tons of other people on this website would too.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: bgas on July 20, 2015, 08:34:12 AM
I understand that this is a very old thread, but I still think this is a great idea. I'd love to contribute, and I'm sure tons of other people on this website would too.

Do you have something to contribute, then?


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: drummer083 on July 20, 2015, 07:19:44 PM
 I documented Dennis' drums for my drum forum, so I'll list his various kits here.
        Slingerland Radio King-Black Diamond Pearl, 14x22 bass, 9x13 tom, 16x16 floor tom, 5.5 x 14 wood snare
        Gretsch Champagne Sparkle- 14x20 bass, 9x13 tom, 16x16 tom, 5x14 cob snare.
        Ludwig Champagne Sparkle- 14x20 bass, 8x12 tom, 9x13 tom, 16x16 bass, 5x14 supraphonic snare drum
        Camco Blue Moire- 14x20 bass, 8x12 tom, 14x14 floor tom, 5x14 matching wood snare w/tuxedo lugs, also used a 5x14 Camco C.O.B. snare and Ludwig Supra
         Camco White Moire- 14x20 bass, 8x12 tom, 14x14 floor tom, 5x14 Ludwig Supraphonic or 5x14 Rogers Powertone (metal)
         Rogers Black Onyx- 14x20 bass, 8x12 tom, 16x16 floor tom, 5x14 Rogers Powertone (metal)
         Camco 3-D Finish- 14x22 bass, 9x13 tom, 16x16 Floor tom, 5x14 matching snare and 5x14 Rogers Powertone
         Camco Blue Sparkle- 14x22 bass, 9x13 tom, 16x16 floor tom, 5x14 Rogers Powertone
         Camco Walnut (stain) finish-14x22 bass, 9x13 tom, 16x16 floor tom, 5x14 Rogers Powertone. Same kit (minus snare) as used by Doug Clifford of CCR.
         Rogers Blue Strata- 14x20 bass, 8x12 tom, 9x13 tom, 16x16 floor tom, 5x14 matching Wood Powertone and 5x15 metal powertone
         Zickos Clear Acrylic- 18x22 bass, 9x13 tom, 10x14 tom, 16x16 floor tom, 16x18 floor tom, 5x14 Ludwig Supraphonic snare. This was probably Dennis' most famous         kit. There were actually two of these. Joe Pollard, inventor of the Syndrum, was the first Zickos endorser (signed just prior to Floyd Sneed of Three Dog Night). He had this kit when he played with the Beach Boys in the early 1970s, and had an identical set made for Ricky Fataar. When he left, the second Zickos kit stayed behind, which Dennis took over. Various pictures exist with two identical Zickos kits side by side on stage. Dennis generally used the 16x16 floor tom with this kit, but sometimes used the 16x18.
          Blaemire fiberglass concert toms- 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 concert toms (single-headed). These were identical to Hal Blaine's toms from his monster kit. Unfinished fiberglass with a mint green tint. These were part of the house kit at Brother studios, made by the late Alan Blaemire.
          Yamaha 9000 series Piano Black Lacquer-There were several of these sets, most with split lugs, but he was also pictured with early "Recording Customs", which were 9000 series birch shells with long, one-piece lugs.  Dennis is first pictured with Yamahas in the 1980 tour book, albeit in a much larger configuation than he normally used. His normal Yamaha set up consisted of a 14x22 bass drum, 10x12 and 11x13 toms, 16x16 and 16x18 floor toms.
       Not much is known about his early cymbals, but they were most likely Zildjians (also possibly Zilcos or Alejian's). His cymbals from the time he began using the Zickos were all Zildjian, with the 1970s "hollow" logo. He used these until the end, also adding a "China Boy" to the Yamaha kit.

   There were also rental kits used for various tv appearances, the most famous being the Blue Shimmer Premier used on Top of the Pops. This kit was used by several acts, most notably Alan White when he appeared with John Lennon for the taping of "Instant Karma". He also used a Walnut Cortex Ludwig concert tom kit on the 1980 Mike Douglas show on the beach in Hawaii.


  Ricky Fataar first used a Ludwig Mod Orange kit with a 14x22 bass, 9x13 tom, 16x16 floor tom and 5x14 Ludwig Supraphonic.  He also was pictured playing Dennis' Blue Strata Rogers kit (as was Mike Kowalski at the 1971 Central Park Show), a Sonor Kit (unknown whose these were) and his Natural Maple Gretsch kit (14x22 bass, 9x13 and 10X14 toms, 16x16 floor tom and 5x14 Ludwig metal snare). His last kit while a member of the Beach Boys was the aforementioned Zickos kit.).
         
         


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: drummer083 on July 20, 2015, 07:35:54 PM
 By the way, Dennis' first Camco kit originally had the horrible Camco tom holder, and was retrofitted with the groundbreaking Rogers Swivomatic hex tom holder. His later Camco kits were all fitted with the Swivomatic holders from the factory in Oaklawn. Ringo also had his Ludwig kits retrofitted with this holder. This holder was later copied by Yamaha and used for all their lines beginning in the late 70s.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: NateRuvin on July 20, 2015, 07:38:31 PM
I understand that this is a very old thread, but I still think this is a great idea. I'd love to contribute, and I'm sure tons of other people on this website would too.

Do you have something to contribute, then?

I was just saying that if the occasion arose, I'd love to contribute to the project. Perhaps, doing some more writing-oriented work for this supposed book.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: c-man on July 21, 2015, 03:29:02 AM
By the way, Dennis' first Camco kit originally had the horrible Camco tom holder, and was retrofitted with the groundbreaking Rogers Swivomatic hex tom holder. His later Camco kits were all fitted with the Swivomatic holders from the factory in Oaklawn. Ringo also had his Ludwig kits retrofitted with this holder. This holder was later copied by Yamaha and used for all their lines beginning in the late 70s.


In some of the earliest photos of the band, Dennis is seen playing various kits with no bass head logo, or a very small one - which of the various models would these have been?


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rob Dean on July 21, 2015, 04:31:06 AM
I documented Dennis' drums for my drum forum, so I'll list his various kits here.
        Slingerland Radio King-Black Diamond Pearl, 14x22 bass, 9x13 tom, 16x16 floor tom, 5.5 x 14 wood snare
        Gretsch Champagne Sparkle- 14x20 bass, 9x13 tom, 16x16 tom, 5x14 cob snare.
        Ludwig Champagne Sparkle- 14x20 bass, 8x12 tom, 9x13 tom, 16x16 bass, 5x14 supraphonic snare drum
        Camco Blue Moire- 14x20 bass, 8x12 tom, 14x14 floor tom, 5x14 matching wood snare w/tuxedo lugs, also used a 5x14 Camco C.O.B. snare and Ludwig Supra
         Camco White Moire- 14x20 bass, 8x12 tom, 14x14 floor tom, 5x14 Ludwig Supraphonic or 5x14 Rogers Powertone (metal)
         Rogers Black Onyx- 14x20 bass, 8x12 tom, 16x16 floor tom, 5x14 Rogers Powertone (metal)
         Camco 3-D Finish- 14x22 bass, 9x13 tom, 16x16 Floor tom, 5x14 matching snare and 5x14 Rogers Powertone
         Camco Blue Sparkle- 14x22 bass, 9x13 tom, 16x16 floor tom, 5x14 Rogers Powertone
         Camco Walnut (stain) finish-14x22 bass, 9x13 tom, 16x16 floor tom, 5x14 Rogers Powertone. Same kit (minus snare) as used by Doug Clifford of CCR.
         Rogers Blue Strata- 14x20 bass, 8x12 tom, 9x13 tom, 16x16 floor tom, 5x14 matching Wood Powertone and 5x15 metal powertone
         Zickos Clear Acrylic- 18x22 bass, 9x13 tom, 10x14 tom, 16x16 floor tom, 16x18 floor tom, 5x14 Ludwig Supraphonic snare. This was probably Dennis' most famous         kit. There were actually two of these. Joe Pollard, inventor of the Syndrum, was the first Zickos endorser (signed just prior to Floyd Sneed of Three Dog Night). He had this kit when he played with the Beach Boys in the early 1970s, and had an identical set made for Ricky Fataar. When he left, the second Zickos kit stayed behind, which Dennis took over. Various pictures exist with two identical Zickos kits side by side on stage. Dennis generally used the 16x16 floor tom with this kit, but sometimes used the 16x18.
          Blaemire fiberglass concert toms- 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 concert toms (single-headed). These were identical to Hal Blaine's toms from his monster kit. Unfinished fiberglass with a mint green tint. These were part of the house kit at Brother studios, made by the late Alan Blaemire.
          Yamaha 9000 series Piano Black Lacquer-There were several of these sets, most with split lugs, but he was also pictured with early "Recording Customs", which were 9000 series birch shells with long, one-piece lugs.  Dennis is first pictured with Yamahas in the 1980 tour book, albeit in a much larger configuation than he normally used. His normal Yamaha set up consisted of a 14x22 bass drum, 10x12 and 11x13 toms, 16x16 and 16x18 floor toms.
       Not much is known about his early cymbals, but they were most likely Zildjians (also possibly Zilcos or Alejian's). His cymbals from the time he began using the Zickos were all Zildjian, with the 1970s "hollow" logo. He used these until the end, also adding a "China Boy" to the Yamaha kit.

   There were also rental kits used for various tv appearances, the most famous being the Blue Shimmer Premier used on Top of the Pops. This kit was used by several acts, most notably Alan White when he appeared with John Lennon for the taping of "Instant Karma". He also used a Walnut Cortex Ludwig concert tom kit on the 1980 Mike Douglas show on the beach in Hawaii.


  Ricky Fataar first used a Ludwig Mod Orange kit with a 14x22 bass, 9x13 tom, 16x16 floor tom and 5x14 Ludwig Supraphonic.  He also was pictured playing Dennis' Blue Strata Rogers kit (as was Mike Kowalski at the 1971 Central Park Show), a Sonor Kit (unknown whose these were) and his Natural Maple Gretsch kit (14x22 bass, 9x13 and 10X14 toms, 16x16 floor tom and 5x14 Ludwig metal snare). His last kit while a member of the Beach Boys was the aforementioned Zickos kit.).
         
         

Brilliant stuff, many thanks (From the Drummers Union  ;D)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: drummer083 on July 21, 2015, 04:45:45 AM
 The earliest photos of the boys playing live at a dance are the Slingerland Radio Kings. These are the photos with David in the band, with the guys wearing those bulky jackets. These were obviously second hand, as Slingerland had stopped using the "beavertail" lugs around 1955 and switched to the "Sound King" lug.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: RONDEMON on July 21, 2015, 08:40:36 AM
Didn't Brian recently mention in one of his fan-based Q&A's that the white Baldwin organ is still in the Beach Boys' storage somewhere.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 21, 2015, 08:55:27 AM
Didn't Brian recently mention in one of his fan-based Q&A's that the white Baldwin organ is still in the Beach Boys' storage somewhere.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,19740.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,19740.0.html)

Hello Brian,

Ever since I've been a fan of yours, I've been fascinated by that white & gold Baldwin organ - an HT2R model, I believe - that was apparently given to you in 1966. What happened to that organ, do you still own it, or do you know who does?

Thank you for the music  :)


- Alan Priez, 26, from France



We used it on Heroes and Villains and Fall Breaks and Back to Winter and put it in our storage rehearsal place - we might still have it!


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: SBonilla on July 21, 2015, 08:57:09 AM
The band had a Kustom PA for rehearsing. It was black, looked like this: http://www.evansvintage.com/197_280_csupload_12345465.jpg?u=695655189
American Productions sold it (and some mics and cable) to me in about 1979. It was stolen in a house break-in in 1980.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on July 29, 2019, 02:07:53 AM
If you are interested in rare vintage guitars, you should check out "Norman's Rare Guitars - Guitar of the day" on youtube. Some Beach Boys related guitars are featured as well. Look through the channel.


I believe Carl used this model during the late 60s.

Norman's Rare Guitars - Guitar of the Day: 1967 Fender Telecaster with Bigsby

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=723AOW_RXno


(https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*FPeG-_XdF7CRmUCVjvjw7g.jpeg)




I'm not sure what year Carl's Jaguar was from (too lazy to go through this thread, sorry) and https://equipboard.com/pros/carl-wilson has no mention of it either. Here's a '64:

Guitar of the Day: 1964 Fender Jaguar Olympic White | Norman's Rare Guitars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af0qbzWfDXE


(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_d1cIWUKbr5w/TF9F1OwJXAI/AAAAAAAABLA/tn0AkiHTXQw/s1600/TBB+Promo+photo+1964.jpg)

(https://sacramentopress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/inline-aa5c44d018e4c4a85bc0c354c17f69f4-460x161.)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on September 13, 2019, 11:42:38 AM
Does anyone know what kind of 12-string semi-accoustic guitar Al is playing during the Hawaii rehearsals 1967, the red one?


(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xKEvA14XVvc/WXjjOQk0QLI/AAAAAAAAJ5E/wSosuGOuz4cpZQ_DOny2EegjTdTorPqgQCLcBGAs/s1600/beachboys1.jpg)




Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 13, 2019, 12:46:29 PM
Does anyone know what kind of 12-string semi-accoustic guitar Al is playing during the Hawaii rehearsals 1967, the red one?


(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xKEvA14XVvc/WXjjOQk0QLI/AAAAAAAAJ5E/wSosuGOuz4cpZQ_DOny2EegjTdTorPqgQCLcBGAs/s1600/beachboys1.jpg)


The answer and more photos can be found in this thread:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,16543.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,16543.0.html)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on September 13, 2019, 01:13:02 PM
Thanks! Will take a look.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on September 16, 2019, 11:58:57 AM
Found this picture of Carl's ... is it a Gibson or Epiphone?


(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c4/53/d7/c453d71d46ed7677158414ead4c92e92.jpg)


Another interesting object:


(https://i1.wp.com/www.mauiinformationguide.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/beach-boys-guitar.jpg.scaled1000.jpg?w=1166&h=871&ssl=1)

https://www.mauiinformationguide.com/blog/guitar-used-on-beach-boys-surfer-girl/

This guitar belonged to Bob Norberg and the article says it was used to "make" Surfer Girl. I don't know if they mean it was used on the actual album/song or something else. But I seem to remember seeing a home movie with Brian fooling around with a guitar that might actually be this one (see below). Maybe C-Man knows if this was ever used by the band.

(https://s17.directupload.net/images/190916/temp/emv2kcm3.png) (https://www.directupload.net/file/d/5577/emv2kcm3_png.htm)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on September 16, 2019, 12:58:12 PM
Found this picture of Carl's ... is it a Gibson or Epiphone?


(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c4/53/d7/c453d71d46ed7677158414ead4c92e92.jpg)

There are others more well versed in every weird BB guitar iteration than I. On first glance, that doesn’t look like one of Carl’s regularly-used guitars.

The guitar in this picture certainly has a Gibson neck/headstock, but the actual Gibson logo is missing (or obscured in the picture).

Carl had some sunburst Gibson 335s (or similar), but they had Bigsby tailpieces on them as I recall. He also played that Guild sunburst guitar, but this guitar pictured is obviously not a Guild (and I recall Carl’s guild had a Bigsby as well).

Carl later on had what appeared to be an Epiphone 12-string that at some point had the neck replaced with a Gibson neck.

Al played some burst 335-ish Gibsons over the years, though I don’t know if any of them looked quite like the one in his pic, with that particular tailpiece and a missing Gibson logo. He played a sunburst 335 as late as 1984 at least, but it also had a Bigsby tailpiece.

While it offers far from conclusive info, there is that 1980/81 interview Billy Hinsche conducted with Carl that someone posted a link to recently, and in that interview Carl lists the guitars he owns at that time, and a sunburst Gibson isn’t among the list:


BH: What guitars do you currently have in your collection?

CW: A sunburst Gibson Epiphone 12-string, a yellow Fender Stratocaster [named "Old Yeller"], a natural Gibson 335 with a Bigsby tailpiece, a red Epiphone 12-string, a white Fender Stratocaster, a black Les Paul, a sunburst Les Paul, a red Gibson 335, a tobacco sunburst Epiphone 12-string, an acoustic Martin Bicentennial D-76 [stolen from the Beach Boys' warehouse], a yellow Fender Telecaster, a blonde Fender Stratocaster, a red Baldwin 12-string, an acoustic Martin D-41, a jumbo Gibson J-200 and a Les Paul Jr.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 16, 2019, 01:55:55 PM
The Bob Norberg guitar is a Silvertone, which was a lower quality budget model that was mostly sold to beginners through catalogs like Sears. It does look like the same guitar Brian is seen holding in the home movie. That would make sense since he was writing with, hanging with, and even living with Bob Norberg at that time.

If anything that guitar was used during the writing of Surfer Girl, unless someone has proof they used it at the Hite Morgan sessions for the early version of Surfer Girl.

Otherwise we have plenty of photos of the band recording at Capitol showing the Fender guitars they were using most at that time.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 16, 2019, 01:58:55 PM
That sunburst 335 style hollowbody is absolutely not a Gibson or Epiphone, it's a knockoff of some kind but I need to research more to ID the make. A lot of those were imports that were labeled under a variety of brand names if they were named at all. I'll check into it. But it isn't close to a Gibson or Epiphone.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on September 16, 2019, 02:52:29 PM
That sunburst 335 style hollowbody is absolutely not a Gibson or Epiphone, it's a knockoff of some kind but I need to research more to ID the make. A lot of those were imports that were labeled under a variety of brand names if they were named at all. I'll check into it. But it isn't close to a Gibson or Epiphone.

A knockoff would make sense given the lack of name on the headstock.

It could well still be of some vintage, as Fender and Gibson (and most everybody else I'm sure) are very particular about guarding their trademarks, and that often pertains particularly to the headstock design. A myriad of Gibson and Fender knockoffs abound no question (Fender and Gibson have arguably knocked off each other at times), but most tend to alter something simple like the headstock to avoid overt infringement.

I recall a friend back in the 80s or 90s who ordered a nice high end Tokai Strat clone, but their guitar got seized and guitars sawed in half at customs because they were exact (or close enough to exact) Strat clones down to the Fender headstock.

I've seen mini (as in, like 12-inch) Fender and Gibson replica guitars be yanked off eBay for infringement! They're so overzealous about it in some cases that actual licensed Fender products get pulled by mistake!

But I would imagine the farther back one goes in time, the more of a wild west situation it was when it comes to this stuff.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 16, 2019, 06:34:31 PM
The Bob Norberg guitar is a Silvertone "Stratotone" model 1421 guitar. These were hollow body guitars made between 1959-1963, sold by Sears. I believe the 1421 was the sunburst finish while the 1420 was the black finish. Someone said they would put the name "Stratotone" on the boxes so the Sears-Silvertone identity would be masked, and also as a nod to the obvious Fender Stratocaster brand name.

These go for between 400-700 US on the vintage market. Nothing special in terms of playability, sound, or collectible value...as I mentioned earlier, they were basic guitars you'd buy from Sears. Only odd/quirky feature were those bizarre D'Armond pickups.

The Norberg connection along with that home movie of Brian Wilson holding that same guitar would multiply its value considerably among Beach Boys collectors especially. There is 100% provenance on this guitar, and it's a damn cool instrument with that connection despite it being a budget guitar not worth much without that Brian Wilson connection.

Did the Boys ever play this in the studio? Who knows...but if it was Bob Norberg's guitar, and the guitarists in the Beach Boys already had their own much-higher quality guitars by the time they were recording in studios, why would they? Unless, as I said before, it got used on a Hite Morgan track, the logical connection is that this guitar was used when Brian and Bob Norberg were actively writing songs when they were together.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 16, 2019, 07:09:14 PM
As for the supposed "Carl Wilson" guitar...we need more info from the original poster Rocker.

Where did this photo of that display come from, can you post a link to it? Does anyone have a photo of Carl with that exact guitar?

I ask because if that is on display at a museum or similar exhibit, and that guitar is supposed to be one of Carl's, I have *serious* doubts about that kind of claim. If it's some random private collector trying to display a no-name guitar in tribute to Carl, then they can do whatever they want. But if that belongs to a museum or exhibit, they need to check their research before saying that is or was a Carl Wilson guitar.

I've seen many, many photos of Carl and the guitars he played, researched quite a few too, etc...and that particular guitar is one I have never seen Carl holding or playing.

That guitar - and please correct me if I'm missing something here - is a knock-off. If it's 60's vintage, it's most likely from Japan, from either a known maker like the Ibanez factory, or one of dozens of randomly branded guitar models that came from Japan.

Red flags: No branding or name at all on that guitar. Nothing, unless the photo doesn't show it.

Big red flag: That tailpiece on the guitar is unlike any I can remember, or find examples of. It's one of the more cheap-looking ones I've seen, and no other brands I've found have a tailpiece like it. It is bizarre. I'm sure someone out there who is an expert on pawn shop guitars would know it, but I have never seen a guitar with a pseudo-trapeze tailpiece quite like that design. And that is not a good thing, lol.

So unless a photo exists of Carl Wilson actually holding or playing that guitar, if someone is claiming that was Carl's guitar in a public exhibit type of scenario, they need to check some of their info.

Carl Wilson did not play guitars like that one in the display case, unless someone can prove otherwise.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Jay on September 16, 2019, 09:16:25 PM
It looks like there may have been a name on the headstock at one point, and it wore off.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: UEF on September 17, 2019, 01:13:11 AM
Something I learnt recently is that there's no high-hat on most Beach Boys records, supposedly. BW doesn't/didn't like the sound and instructed Dennis/Hal accordingly


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on September 17, 2019, 04:54:29 AM
Re: The Silvertone guitar:

Bob might be playing this guitar on this recording.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-P18A7_YnM


Producer, Associated  Performer, Vocalist: Brian Wilson
Producer, Associated  Performer, Guitar: Robert Norberg
Studio  Personnel, Mixer, Mastering  Engineer: Mark Linett
Composer  Lyricist: Brian Wilson
Composer  Lyricist: Roger Christian





As for the supposed "Carl Wilson" guitar...we need more info from the original poster Rocker.

Where did this photo of that display come from, can you post a link to it?


I found it via a google search. This is the site it was on:

https://www.pinterest.com/loriafrancisco/hardrock-punta-cana-memorabilia/

You can actually zoom in but I can't decipher what the sign says.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: wjcrerar on September 17, 2019, 07:19:52 AM
.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on September 17, 2019, 08:10:52 AM
As for the supposed "Carl Wilson" guitar...we need more info from the original poster Rocker.

Where did this photo of that display come from, can you post a link to it? Does anyone have a photo of Carl with that exact guitar?

I ask because if that is on display at a museum or similar exhibit, and that guitar is supposed to be one of Carl's, I have *serious* doubts about that kind of claim. If it's some random private collector trying to display a no-name guitar in tribute to Carl, then they can do whatever they want. But if that belongs to a museum or exhibit, they need to check their research before saying that is or was a Carl Wilson guitar.

I've seen many, many photos of Carl and the guitars he played, researched quite a few too, etc...and that particular guitar is one I have never seen Carl holding or playing.

That guitar - and please correct me if I'm missing something here - is a knock-off. If it's 60's vintage, it's most likely from Japan, from either a known maker like the Ibanez factory, or one of dozens of randomly branded guitar models that came from Japan.

Red flags: No branding or name at all on that guitar. Nothing, unless the photo doesn't show it.

Big red flag: That tailpiece on the guitar is unlike any I can remember, or find examples of. It's one of the more cheap-looking ones I've seen, and no other brands I've found have a tailpiece like it. It is bizarre. I'm sure someone out there who is an expert on pawn shop guitars would know it, but I have never seen a guitar with a pseudo-trapeze tailpiece quite like that design. And that is not a good thing, lol.

So unless a photo exists of Carl Wilson actually holding or playing that guitar, if someone is claiming that was Carl's guitar in a public exhibit type of scenario, they need to check some of their info.

Carl Wilson did not play guitars like that one in the display case, unless someone can prove otherwise.

It looks like the guitar has a signature/autograph on it, in between the top f-hole and the tailpiece. While it's blurry, it looks similar to Carl autographs I've seen. 

My guess is that someone had this knockoff guitar autographed by Carl at some point, and *that's* the connection. I would imagine these Hard Rock Cafe locations all around the world would have to struggle to find truly unique, rare items to display, especially instruments with true provenance. In this case, I would imagine they justify that the display is paying tribute to Carl, and it's *a* guitar (and I guess arguably vaguely on the surface similar to guitars he used in terms of it being a sunburst semi-hollow body with two cutaways, etc.), and he signed it at some point. I wouldn't expect that the Hard Rock Cafe in Punta Cana, Dominican Republic would have one of Carl's actual regularly-used guitars on display. Normally, I'd say the likely scenario is that these places snag some sort of guitar that a well-known guitar player may have owned (or been given) at some point, but rarely or never actually used. Like when various fancy Hofner basses turn up now and then that are said to have been "made for Paul McCartney" or attempted to be given to him, but he never actually took receipt of it and/or never used it.

Kind of reminds me of this:

(https://frinkiac.com/img/S11E03/588760.jpg)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 17, 2019, 08:27:29 AM
GREAT eye, there, Hey Jude! That is an autograph, and that does indeed tie it all together. Wow, I never spotted that autograph until you mentioned it.

You're right on the money, the Hard Rock and other venues do collect autographed instruments to display, and many of them were not owned or used by the person who autographed them. You'll see a lot of Squier Strats autographed by various rockers, or other similar guitars, which they put on display and which the average tourist would have no clue of the difference unless they played guitar.

So yes, that's what the mystery Carl guitar seems to be: It's a knockoff which someone had Carl autograph, and which was either bought at auction by the Hard Rock buyers (I'd dig that job...spending their money on rock memorabilia...) or sold to the franchise. Cool stuff.

FYI, the display is the Hard Rock hotel in Punta Cana, Dominican Republic. They have a full Beach Boys wall, as you'll see in these links I'm posting.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but is that a bathrobe hanging top left in the one photo, of the kind Brian wore often in the 70's? It even has a "BW" monogram on it! Hmm...any details on that?

LINKS:
https://www.tripadvisor.com.ar/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g3176298-d1076311-i40963020-Hard_Rock_Hotel_Casino_Punta_Cana-Bavaro_Punta_Cana_La_Altagracia_Provin.html (https://www.tripadvisor.com.ar/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g3176298-d1076311-i40963020-Hard_Rock_Hotel_Casino_Punta_Cana-Bavaro_Punta_Cana_La_Altagracia_Provin.html)

https://www.maritimetravel.ca/_uploads/images/agent-gallery/2694/00004503.jpg?a=fIB|800-800 (https://www.maritimetravel.ca/_uploads/images/agent-gallery/2694/00004503.jpg?a=fIB|800-800)

(https://www.maritimetravel.ca/_uploads/images/agent-gallery/2694/00004503.jpg?a=fIB|800-800)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Jay on September 17, 2019, 01:00:05 PM
There is still the question of what kind of guitar it is, though. As I'm somewhat of a guitar enthusiast, I'm curious about this now. Even if it's a cheap knock-off.  :lol


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 18, 2019, 10:59:39 AM
The maker of that guitar could be anyone - There was a time in the 60's and 70's when the demand was so high that factories in Japan would crank out these knock-offs sometimes in a few big production runs and not have any brand or label attached to them. The same factory could have produced guitars with 10 different maker names applied to them by the time they hit the US retailers or wholesalers. Unless someone did put a brand name label on the headstock or elsewhere, 50 years later these no-names show up and people have to guess or take it apart to see any stamps or production marks inside the neck joint, body, etc.

I'll say again, I've never seen a tailpiece like the one shown in that photo. I'm sure someone could see that and ID it as coming from a particular factory - Japanese or otherwise - But that tailpiece is unlike any I've seen on even the more common off-brand guitars. And having no label on the headstock and no distinct features anywhere else makes it very tough to ID unless someone else has the same model with that tailpiece and can ID it.

The bottom line on many of these is that they were cheap guitars, and today they have very little collectible value because they're not very good players to begin with, and never were. Most of the value on these off-brand guitars comes from either having a very famous player seen using one (look at Jack White, Cobain, Jimmy Page and his Danelectro/Silvertones, etc.) or the rare cases when these budget imports actually had a cool sound and were playable guitars...or had a cool design or style to them.

The knock-offs that were quality guitars have a higher value, like the Ibanez "Lawsuit" models when they were producing very good quality copies of Gibsons in the 70's which got them sued. Or ones that actually play and sound good.

So the one in that case, on display in Punta Cana, I'd *guess* was a knock-off made in Japan but unless someone can ID it from that tailpiece and headstock shape, or take it out of the case to take it apart to find production marks or stamps, it could have come from any number of factories. There are a lot of mystery guitars made in Japan which have no markings at all and no one knows what they are.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Jay on September 18, 2019, 07:26:25 PM
Is it me, or did So play this same guitar at the July 1984 Washington show? At least it looks very similar to me, from seeing a picture on Facebook.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on September 19, 2019, 06:23:33 AM
Is it me, or did So play this same guitar at the July 1984 Washington show? At least it looks very similar to me, from seeing a picture on Facebook.

Al played a sunburst Gibson ES-335 (or very similar) at the DC '84 gig:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmhkJzGW8AAbSrz.jpg)

Similar to that generic guitar only in that it's a semi-hollow body double cutaway guitar with a burst finish. But Al's playing the real deal here, and you can also see plenty of differences. It's clearly a Gibson, it has gold hardware, and Al's guitar has a Bigsby vibrato tailpiece. Al's guitar here is generally relatively similar to Carl's main guitar of the 80s and 90s, his ES-335.

I actually wonder if Al is playing one of Carl's other guitars (or vice versa back then), as Carl is seen with a similar guitar (Gibson sunburst with black pick guard, gold hardware with Bigsby, etc.) way back in 1971 at Central Park  and other early 70s gigs here:

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rwI2DosfCYo/maxresdefault.jpg)

(https://theamazingkornyfonelabel.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/beach-boys-1971-feast.jpg)

Al didn't deviate a ton from his white Strat by the early 80s; he wasn't regularly seen with this Gibson guitar in the 80s, but on occasion Al and Carl popped up with different guitars for a variety of reasons.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: JK on September 19, 2019, 09:20:53 AM
Something I learnt recently is that there's no high-hat on most Beach Boys records, supposedly. BW doesn't/didn't like the sound and instructed Dennis/Hal accordingly

Now you mention it... That's fascinating! Thanks, UEF.

I rather think Spector was no fan of hi-hats either. He certainly went to town with the tape echo on Ringo's hi-hat on "Let It Be". ;D


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: UEF on September 19, 2019, 09:43:29 AM

Al didn't deviate a ton from his white Strat by the early 80s; he wasn't regularly seen with this Gibson guitar in the 80s, but on occasion Al and Carl popped up with different guitars for a variety of reasons.

Al playing a white Les Paul Custom for the grammies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN-39diW00Y


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on September 19, 2019, 11:52:18 AM

Al playing a white Les Paul Custom for the grammies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN-39diW00Y

They used all Gibson gear when they did the Grammy gig; apparently they had an endorsement deal (or pending endorsement deal?) with Gibson for the tour.  One noted BB commentator even insisted there was *zero* chance Al or anyone would appear on stage during C50 with any Fender gear. But apparently, at some point prior to the beginning of the actual tour, Al and Dave both decided they wanted to use Fender gear, and whatever deal or pending deal with Gibson was scuttled and Al and Dave played Strats and Jaguars/Jazzmasters, etc.

I lean towards a Les Paul, humbucker sound myself, but there's no question a good hunk of BB material needs that bright Fender sound, and above all else, the guys in the band should play whatever gear they're actually comfortable playing.

Reminds me of watching the doc on the 2005 Cream reunion. They apparently initially dug out all their old equipment, and Clapton was going use his old ES-335 and Jack Bruce is old EB-0 Gibson bass, and they were going to use huge Marshall amp stacks and all of that like they did back in 1968, the idea being the "look" of the thing as much as the sound. Then they apparently decided instead to just use the gear they liked using in 2005, and just did that. Clapton played Strats, Bruce played his Warwick bass and sometimes an EB-1 bass, and they used their then-modern amp rigs and all of that. I wouldn't have minded Clapton bring out something with humbuckers for some of the songs, but ultimately I admire that they just used what they wanted to and were comfortable with.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on September 19, 2019, 11:57:51 AM
Al *did* (and maybe still does; more on that in a moment) have a nice '56 Les Paul that he played mostly in the early 70s (it appears as I recall at least as late as 1976 on stage).

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Zhjm9LIuW0s/maxresdefault.jpg)

In 2013 there was a weird slightly cryptic report from Al saying his '56 Les Paul was "missing" (the blurb put out certainly made it sound like he was trying to say it was stolen without actually saying the word "stolen") and was looking for it back. I never heard if he ever managed to get it back.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on September 19, 2019, 12:19:52 PM
Is it me, or did So play this same guitar at the July 1984 Washington show? At least it looks very similar to me, from seeing a picture on Facebook.

Al played a sunburst Gibson ES-335 (or very similar) at the DC '84 gig:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmhkJzGW8AAbSrz.jpg)

Similar to that generic guitar only in that it's a semi-hollow body double cutaway guitar with a burst finish. But Al's playing the real deal here, and you can also see plenty of differences. It's clearly a Gibson, it has gold hardware, and Al's guitar has a Bigsby vibrato tailpiece. Al's guitar here is generally relatively similar to Carl's main guitar of the 80s and 90s, his ES-335.




I don't know if Al is playing Carl's guitar or if it was his own. Here's a better picture of Carl's:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/carl-wilson-of-the-beach-boys-performs-on-top-of-the-pops-on-18th-picture-id109097601?s=2048x2048)





BTW I found another one that wasn't mentioned in this thread, I believe. It's Carl with an Emperador E-200:

(https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--G32c1DF8--/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_south,h_1600,q_80,w_1600/v1450206169/yr7t405gpafioekciqeg.jpg)

Source: https://reverb.com/item/1441156-emperador-e-200-1969-beach-boys-carl-wilson-model


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on September 19, 2019, 12:25:15 PM
I think the Carl sunburst in that pic is an ES-345; note the extra tone selector switch above the four main knobs, and also the alternate split parallelogram inlay on the neck. 


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on September 19, 2019, 12:28:17 PM
I think the Carl sunburst in that pic is an ES-345; note the extra tone selector switch above the four main knobs, and also the alternate split parallelogram inlay on the neck.  


Yeah, I saw that only after I posted the picture. Thanks for the correction.


Here's a pic of Carl's own E-200 "on display at the Hard Rock Café in Miami" (according to the link in my above message.


(https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--9xmYNwGO--/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_south,h_620,q_90,w_620/v1450206174/g7l9lag9e7sax5odrv00.jpg)



And is Al playing an ES-125 here?

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f4/2d/d0/f42dd0c2f954f09e925f7636bf5b5202--the-beach-boys-april-.jpg)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Jay on September 19, 2019, 01:31:40 PM
Al *did* (and maybe still does; more on that in a moment) have a nice '56 Les Paul that he played mostly in the early 70s (it appears as I recall at least as late as 1976 on stage).

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Zhjm9LIuW0s/maxresdefault.jpg)

In 2013 there was a weird slightly cryptic report from Al saying his '56 Les Paul was "missing" (the blurb put out certainly made it sound like he was trying to say it was stolen without actually saying the word "stolen") and was looking for it back. I never heard if he ever managed to get it back.
Why on earth is Mike holding an accordion?


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 19, 2019, 05:42:02 PM

And is Al playing an ES-125 here?

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f4/2d/d0/f42dd0c2f954f09e925f7636bf5b5202--the-beach-boys-april-.jpg)

No, that is a Gibson ES-225T, the first slim hollowbody model Gibson produced. You can spot the 225 by the odd placement of the P-90 pickup, sitting alone in the center rather than close to the neck or bridge, and also by the cutaway. Also note that odd trapeze tailpiece/bridge assembly - That was designed by Les Paul, and was on those initial early runs of the Les Paul models, those early goldtops where that huge tailpiece didn't work so well...but on a slim hollowbody archtop, they fit just fine.

Al is playing probably the most common configuration (and sunburst color) seen on those 50's ES-225 models. They were only made from 55-59 or so.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Pretty Funky on September 20, 2019, 03:01:19 AM
GREAT eye, there, Hey Jude! That is an autograph, and that does indeed tie it all together. Wow, I never spotted that autograph until you mentioned it.

You're right on the money, the Hard Rock and other venues do collect autographed instruments to display, and many of them were not owned or used by the person who autographed them. You'll see a lot of Squier Strats autographed by various rockers, or other similar guitars, which they put on display and which the average tourist would have no clue of the difference unless they played guitar.

So yes, that's what the mystery Carl guitar seems to be: It's a knockoff which someone had Carl autograph, and which was either bought at auction by the Hard Rock buyers (I'd dig that job...spending their money on rock memorabilia...) or sold to the franchise. Cool stuff.

FYI, the display is the Hard Rock hotel in Punta Cana, Dominican Republic. They have a full Beach Boys wall, as you'll see in these links I'm posting.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but is that a bathrobe hanging top left in the one photo, of the kind Brian wore often in the 70's? It even has a "BW" monogram on it! Hmm...any details on that?

LINKS:
https://www.tripadvisor.com.ar/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g3176298-d1076311-i40963020-Hard_Rock_Hotel_Casino_Punta_Cana-Bavaro_Punta_Cana_La_Altagracia_Provin.html (https://www.tripadvisor.com.ar/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g3176298-d1076311-i40963020-Hard_Rock_Hotel_Casino_Punta_Cana-Bavaro_Punta_Cana_La_Altagracia_Provin.html)

https://www.maritimetravel.ca/_uploads/images/agent-gallery/2694/00004503.jpg?a=fIB|800-800 (https://www.maritimetravel.ca/_uploads/images/agent-gallery/2694/00004503.jpg?a=fIB|800-800)

(https://www.maritimetravel.ca/_uploads/images/agent-gallery/2694/00004503.jpg?a=fIB|800-800)

More on the bathrobe. I assume it’s this one donated in London. Second link has front and back.

https://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/news-photo/brian-wilson-donates-a-signed-bathrobe-to-the-hard-rock-news-photo/566790411

http://www.sonic.net/~dsktracy/bbstuff/Clothing/pages/Property%20of%20Brian%20Wilson%20bathrobe%20%28front%29.html



Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on September 20, 2019, 03:57:26 AM

And is Al playing an ES-125 here?

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f4/2d/d0/f42dd0c2f954f09e925f7636bf5b5202--the-beach-boys-april-.jpg)

No, that is a Gibson ES-225T, the first slim hollowbody model Gibson produced. You can spot the 225 by the odd placement of the P-90 pickup, sitting alone in the center rather than close to the neck or bridge, and also by the cutaway. Also note that odd trapeze tailpiece/bridge assembly - That was designed by Les Paul, and was on those initial early runs of the Les Paul models, those early goldtops where that huge tailpiece didn't work so well...but on a slim hollowbody archtop, they fit just fine.

Al is playing probably the most common configuration (and sunburst color) seen on those 50's ES-225 models. They were only made from 55-59 or so.


Thank you!
I wonder where Al got this from. I never saw any of the Boys with that kind of guitar. Carl is playing a twelve-string accoustic, which also didn't happen too often on stage, I believe.


BTW here's an episode of Guitar Of The Day by Norman's Rare Guitars featuring an ES-225T

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubfFjB5KSnA


Is aeijtzsche still on board? Maybe we should update the list.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on September 20, 2019, 06:25:30 AM
Thank you!
I wonder where Al got this from. I never saw any of the Boys with that kind of guitar. Carl is playing a twelve-string accoustic, which also didn't happen too often on stage, I believe.


BTW here's an episode of Guitar Of The Day by Norman's Rare Guitars featuring an ES-225T

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubfFjB5KSnA


Is aeijtzsche still on board? Maybe we should update the list.

I can't speak to this particular gig, but in some cases the guys just used random guitars; perhaps borrowed from another group or maybe even rented. Back then it seemed to happen occasionally if their gear didn't make it to the next gig, or perhaps if they were traveling to some one-off gig or last minute gig (perhaps something for charity, etc.).

Even in more recent years, you'll sometimes see Al playing a random guitar (often a standard American Strat) where it seems he's doing a one-off gig and the promoter or whomever is paying for or arranging the gig provided the instruments.

Al's not doing too many one-off solo gigs outside of Brian's band or the "Storytellers" shows anymore, but in the previous 10-15 years when he's played with the Surf City All Stars and the Endless Summer Band and things like that, I think he has probably had a boilerplate tour rider that simply asks for a standard American Strat to be provided.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Music/The-Beach-Boys/i-VNJ5q7c/0/1b8ee516/S/AlJardine_July4_05b-S.jpg)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Jardinenj.jpg)

(https://www.tributetothebeachboys.com/franquias/2/37688/editor-html/1115810.jpg)

(http://photos1.blogger.com/img/104/3467/640/Al_Guitar.jpg)

I'm not familiar with every guitar Al currently owns so I can't say all of these guitars are not his and are provided by the gig, but I'm thinking many if not most of them are.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on September 20, 2019, 07:29:10 AM
That's probably a good idea! I guess I'm just stuck too deep in my innocent fantasy that you just pick up your guitar, plug in and play.  ;D

We'd need to take a look into Red Barn.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: harveyw on September 20, 2019, 08:30:49 AM
Al *did* (and maybe still does; more on that in a moment) have a nice '56 Les Paul that he played mostly in the early 70s (it appears as I recall at least as late as 1976 on stage).

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Zhjm9LIuW0s/maxresdefault.jpg)

In 2013 there was a weird slightly cryptic report from Al saying his '56 Les Paul was "missing" (the blurb put out certainly made it sound like he was trying to say it was stolen without actually saying the word "stolen") and was looking for it back. I never heard if he ever managed to get it back.
Why on earth is Mike holding an accordion?

I believe this photo is taken from a tv appearance to promote Tears In The Morning, hence Bruce on lead vocal mic. There's quite a prominent accordion section in the recording, and getting Mike to mime the part was probably easier & cheaper than getting a session guy in.
Also (pedant) I think it's actually a concertina Mike is (not) playing.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on September 20, 2019, 11:40:53 AM
I believe this photo is taken from a tv appearance to promote Tears In The Morning, hence Bruce on lead vocal mic. There's quite a prominent accordion section in the recording, and getting Mike to mime the part was probably easier & cheaper than getting a session guy in.
Also (pedant) I think it's actually a concertina Mike is (not) playing.

Yep, it definitely seems to be one of those shows where they mimed (no apparent amps, Bruce not playing anything, etc.), and one of those cases where there are a bunch of photos of the TV gig, but the actual footage from the TV show either isn't extant or isn't circulating.

It was used for the initial "Live in London" cover:

[(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81bwqa4593L._SL1500_.jpg)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on September 20, 2019, 11:46:48 AM
Forgot to mention this TV appearance was from November 18, 1970 on "Top of the Pops" in the UK:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-beach-boys-perform-live-on-top-of-the-pops-on-november-18-1970-lr-picture-id98326968?s=2048x2048)

They mimed to "Tears in the Morning" indeed; I'm curious if there's any chance they did any other numbers. Was it typical to just do one song on TOTP at that time?

Also funny that they went to the trouble to have Mike playing something that seemed to vaguely match the recording, yet Carl and Al just play two electric guitars and Bruce doesn't have any sort of keyboard or organ or piano.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: CenturyDeprived on September 20, 2019, 11:51:53 AM
I believe this photo is taken from a tv appearance to promote Tears In The Morning, hence Bruce on lead vocal mic. There's quite a prominent accordion section in the recording, and getting Mike to mime the part was probably easier & cheaper than getting a session guy in.
Also (pedant) I think it's actually a concertina Mike is (not) playing.

Yep, it definitely seems to be one of those shows where they mimed (no apparent amps, Bruce not playing anything, etc.), and one of those cases where there are a bunch of photos of the TV gig, but the actual footage from the TV show either isn't extant or isn't circulating.

It was used for the initial "Live in London" cover:

[(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81bwqa4593L._SL1500_.jpg)

This is utterly fascinating, and surprisingly relatively rarely discussed.

We know that Mike mimed sax in the videos for Kokomo and Problem Child, but at least sax was an instrument Mike actually had some experience in actually playing. In this case, it's miming an instrument he (presumably?) didn't play beforehand.  Which makes me wonder if somebody had to teach him how to hold it or even pretend play it, or if he just looked at some photos and winged it.

Curious if anybody can chime in with some sort of list of all of the instruments the band has mimed over the years. We know they mimed to their early guitar-based hits on TV, but actually getting an unusual instrument (which they had little or no experience with) to pretend play is pretty funny to me (perhaps not too unusual for the time though, although Problem Child was 1990!)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on September 20, 2019, 12:44:16 PM
Well, they "mimed" to this in 1987; I somehow doubt they were able to actually do it:

(http://nightflight.com/wp-content/uploads/FAT-BOYS-RAP-15.jpg)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on September 20, 2019, 01:02:28 PM
Here's Al in a relatively rare instance playing a Rickenbacker (maybe/probably Carl's?) on stage in 1988 (for the gig taped for that "Full House" episode):

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/beach-boy-bingo-airdate-november-18-1988-al-jardine-of-the-beach-boys-picture-id109446350?s=2048x2048)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: harveyw on September 20, 2019, 02:56:20 PM
The interesting thing about that Getty images TOTP photo is that you can see cables emerging from both Al's & Carl's guitars, which makes me think that this might have been a live vocal/partial instrumentation performance to a prerecorded backing track. It wasn't uncommon to hide amplifiers away from tv performance spaces back then, in order to help with audio isolation (and also maybe because amps aren't particularly attractive things to look at on tv).

 I've just checked Keith Badman's book: "18th november: Top of the Pops live vocal over new backing track "Tears In The Morning" broadcast colour Nov 19th". I know that book isn't 100% reliable, but either way we'll probably never really know, as this episode of TOTP was erased many years ago. Breaks your heart, doesn't it?

PS: yes, generally bands only played one title on the show, although there are exceptions (there was a short lived "album spot" circa 1970, during which bands played 2-3 selections from their latest LP).


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on September 21, 2019, 12:29:07 PM
Forgot to mention this TV appearance was from November 18, 1970 on "Top of the Pops" in the UK:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-beach-boys-perform-live-on-top-of-the-pops-on-november-18-1970-lr-picture-id98326968?s=2048x2048)

They mimed to "Tears in the Morning" indeed; I'm curious if there's any chance they did any other numbers. Was it typical to just do one song on TOTP at that time?

Also funny that they went to the trouble to have Mike playing something that seemed to vaguely match the recording, yet Carl and Al just play two electric guitars and Bruce doesn't have any sort of keyboard or organ or piano.


This seems to be the audio of that performance. Though it says Dec. 15th:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2L0KAlwTTk


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Emdeeh on September 21, 2019, 07:06:35 PM
Even in more recent years, you'll sometimes see Al playing a random guitar (often a standard American Strat) where it seems he's doing a one-off gig and the promoter or whomever is paying for or arranging the gig provided the instruments.

One time when Al was doing a gig in the middle-of-nowhere North Carolina, I was lucky enough to catch the soundcheck. He had two rental Strats for that show.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on September 22, 2019, 11:24:51 AM
Even in more recent years, you'll sometimes see Al playing a random guitar (often a standard American Strat) where it seems he's doing a one-off gig and the promoter or whomever is paying for or arranging the gig provided the instruments.

One time when Al was doing a gig in the middle-of-nowhere North Carolina, I was lucky enough to catch the soundcheck. He had two rental Strats for that show.



I just found this:



Just a chime in. Al Jardine came to town last year, spec'd a Rickenbacker 12 for his rental. My good friend works for the backline company. He asked if they could rent my Rickenbacker 330/12 (Blueburst) for the night for 100 bucks. I said sure! Al Jardine played my guitar, said he loved it. Thanks, that's all.

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/beach-boys-rig-rundown-circa-1964.1622936/


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: BBs Footage Saga on September 22, 2019, 12:19:19 PM
Forgot to mention this TV appearance was from November 18, 1970 on "Top of the Pops" in the UK:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-beach-boys-perform-live-on-top-of-the-pops-on-november-18-1970-lr-picture-id98326968?s=2048x2048)

They mimed to "Tears in the Morning" indeed; I'm curious if there's any chance they did any other numbers. Was it typical to just do one song on TOTP at that time?

Also funny that they went to the trouble to have Mike playing something that seemed to vaguely match the recording, yet Carl and Al just play two electric guitars and Bruce doesn't have any sort of keyboard or organ or piano.


This seems to be the audio of that performance. Though it says Dec. 15th:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2L0KAlwTTk

Not the same Tv Appearance, one is Top of The Pops and the audio one is Dutch Toppop.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Ian on September 22, 2019, 02:15:24 PM
Yeah totp was one of the worst in terms of not saving footage. When I did my Rolling Stones book I found that about 95% of the many Stones appearances on that show in the 1960s were destroyed. There are literally less then a handful in existence. The stills of those shows are always tantalizing to look at even though they were usually miming or partial miming


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on September 23, 2019, 07:00:18 AM
Yeah totp was one of the worst in terms of not saving footage. When I did my Rolling Stones book I found that about 95% of the many Stones appearances on that show in the 1960s were destroyed. There are literally less then a handful in existence. The stills of those shows are always tantalizing to look at even though they were usually miming or partial miming

Yep, and of course the Beatles' appearances are near non-existent as well. Beatles scholars have found tantalizing little scraps like 15 or 30 seconds used for a "Doctor Who" episode (ironically, while some Dr. Who episodes are of course infamously still missing, the episode that used a short clip of the Beatles on TOTP from 1965 managed to survive), and more recently an unfortunately over-hyped "rare footage discovery!!!" of some bits from the Beatles' 1966 appearance that actually consisted of a fan aiming a home movie camera at their TV. A similar film from a '64 appearance also survives that way. Still all interesting, but sort of like an archaeological dig unearthing scraps of something interesting.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: BBs Footage Saga on September 25, 2019, 07:51:42 AM
Although Reelin in the years archive claims to have both Top of the pops and Toppop appearances.

They also appeared on top of the pops in 1968 miming to Do It Again.

Coming back to the Gear theme, in the TILT Good Vibrations promo(The 1966 rehearsal footage that is included in a lot of documentaries)  we can see some gear not included here, those are: a Violin shaped bass (definitely not the McCartney one) and a Guitar that Carl is seen performing at one scene. In that clip we can also see closeups of Bruce Organ.



Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: wjcrerar on September 25, 2019, 10:42:18 AM
.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 25, 2019, 11:34:03 AM
I've read that the other violin bass they sometimes used in that era was an Eko 995. From the examples I've listened to that might be what Bruce played on Wild Honey (the song), not sure though, most of that album sounds like the Hofner they used in Hawaii.

You may have read it here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22639.msg533662.html#msg533662 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22639.msg533662.html#msg533662)

In the second article there's a cool picture of Bruce with a Hofner bass. I've seen Carl and Al with them, but never Bruce.

That bass is an Eko 995 violin bass, the model Bruce is shown with has the round pickup magnets/polepieces where others have rectangular magnets.


And here's the photo if the linking works:

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/nuvo.net/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/3d/a3da29be-9fe1-595e-8c10-4bfb5c03eac4/58bdcfbdcbc59.image.png?resize=552%2C443)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on September 26, 2019, 10:21:46 AM
I wonder if the violin bass use had to do with this time period where the band well and truly didn't have anybody that was playing bass enough to feel super comfy on a standard scale bass?  Not that it's that hard to adjust, but if you're not playing a lot of bass, having a 30" scale bass makes it that much easier to play.  The band also picked up at least one mustang bass in the late 60s or early 70s, as seen here:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwBB71aWwAE3CCu?format=jpg&name=medium)

Just a thought!


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: NateRuvin on September 26, 2019, 12:57:37 PM
I fricken love this thread. Gear nut's dream!


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: BBs Footage Saga on September 26, 2019, 01:07:43 PM
I wonder if the violin bass use had to do with this time period where the band well and truly didn't have anybody that was playing bass enough to feel super comfy on a standard scale bass?  Not that it's that hard to adjust, but if you're not playing a lot of bass, having a 30" scale bass makes it that much easier to play.  The band also picked up at least one mustang bass in the late 60s or early 70s, as seen here:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwBB71aWwAE3CCu?format=jpg&name=medium)

Just a thought!

Maybe but the only time i saw that bass is in the TILT TV performance, and that photo of Bruce is from the same performance, in London 1966 footage (Shooted like 2 months after) he is wearing the white fender bass as in other footage of Bruce live.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on November 07, 2019, 07:52:16 AM
I thought this was as good a thread as any to put this link into. It was posted through Brian's facebook account:


P is for perfection: the tale of the Fender Precision Bass

https://happymag.tv/p-is-for-perfection-the-tale-of-the-fender-precision-bass/?fbclid=IwAR1k5f-uqPa0hnuPl2hsrifZGJZAecv79JHjUQAM32_f-xx-yKJiszbn4e4




Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on April 06, 2020, 12:57:23 PM
Look-a-here, the Beach Boys in '86 with Brian on bass looking ultra cool (Miami Vice style) and Carl playing a Rick:

The Beach Boys - California Dreamin' (1986-10-01 Solid Gold Appearance)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkYKMwA4cfM


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: c-man on April 06, 2020, 01:04:11 PM
Wow, can't say I've seen that one - neat! Thanks


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Pretty Funky on April 06, 2020, 04:54:36 PM
Look-a-here, the Beach Boys in '86 with Brian on bass looking ultra cool (Miami Vice style) and Carl playing a Rick:

The Beach Boys - California Dreamin' (1986-10-01 Solid Gold Appearance)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkYKMwA4cfM

I don’t think you can read anything into a lip-synced performance. It would not surprise me if the show had a stock supply of instruments ready for an artist to just pick up and ‘play’. Not to mention the fact Mike is so totally not playing the sax.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on April 07, 2020, 10:36:22 AM
Look-a-here, the Beach Boys in '86 with Brian on bass looking ultra cool (Miami Vice style) and Carl playing a Rick:

The Beach Boys - California Dreamin' (1986-10-01 Solid Gold Appearance)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkYKMwA4cfM

I don’t think you can read anything into a lip-synced performance. It would not surprise me if the show had a stock supply of instruments ready for an artist to just pick up and ‘play’. Not to mention the fact Mike is so totally not playing the sax.


From a few weeks ago, here is another (network this time, not syndicated) TV appearance from the Boys promoting "California Dreamin" in Fall 1986. They were making the rounds for sure...compare the gear on Solid Gold in October '86 to what they were shown using on this TV show aired the same month:

Copied from the Stamos HBO thread, the sitcom "You Again?" from 1986:

FYI - If you haven't seen the clips of the show "You Again?" as mentioned in the press release above, here are the clips featuring The Beach Boys (with Brian) on the episode "The Audition" first aired in October 1986. This was right before Stamos landed the Full House gig. Jack Klugman played John's father on the show, and John's character "Matt" auditions on drums for the Beach Boys in this episode. Notably Carl is missing from the first audition scene yet he is there for the later concert and rehearsal scenes. Pretty interesting to see all of them acting and playing circa 1986.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCHPlAwBVZE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCHPlAwBVZE)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY49qsNMlp0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY49qsNMlp0)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHaU5_RCdbY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHaU5_RCdbY)


Just an aside on the TV show Solid Gold...I used to watch that show regularly especially before our neighborhood was wired for cable TV to hear the newest chart tunes. I remember specifically they were advertising Men At Work would be on this one upcoming Saturday to premiere their new single, and I was a big fan of Men At Work so I rushed home from playing baseball that Saturday afternoon to watch them. Now anything you want is instantly available on demand...Oh, and I also had and may still have the Solid Gold board game.  ;D


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: UEF on April 10, 2020, 12:53:53 AM
I wonder if the violin bass use had to do with this time period where the band well and truly didn't have anybody that was playing bass enough to feel super comfy on a standard scale bass?  Not that it's that hard to adjust, but if you're not playing a lot of bass, having a 30" scale bass makes it that much easier to play.  The band also picked up at least one mustang bass in the late 60s or early 70s, as seen here:


Just a thought!

Possibly also they thought "there's a guy currently making more millions than anyone else on a short scale bass"... live, at least ;)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on June 07, 2020, 02:33:16 AM
In Billy Hinsche's latest facebook-video he talks a little about the Epiphone guitar he's playing here on the Dean Martin show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGQhyRyH2uA

"Lady love" of course was co-written by Billy and Brian.


Billy mentions that it is this guitar (later owned by Joe Walsh) that Carl played on a lot of the In Concert album (a couple of pictures are featured on the gatefold).


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Emdeeh on June 07, 2020, 07:39:09 AM
It's the same guitar Carl's playing in the photo above with Daryl Dragon. Here's the direct link to Billy's show (episode #11): https://www.facebook.com/billy.hinsche/videos/4511675448858713/


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on June 07, 2020, 08:25:11 AM
It's the same guitar Carl's playing in the photo above with Daryl Dragon. Here's the direct link to Billy's show (episode #11): https://www.facebook.com/billy.hinsche/videos/4511675448858713/

How wonderful that that guitar is still around and in good hands!


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on January 12, 2021, 06:51:45 AM
Although Reelin in the years archive claims to have both Top of the pops and Toppop appearances.

They also appeared on top of the pops in 1968 miming to Do It Again.

Coming back to the Gear theme, in the TILT Good Vibrations promo(The 1966 rehearsal footage that is included in a lot of documentaries)  we can see some gear not included here, those are: a Violin shaped bass (definitely not the McCartney one) and a Guitar that Carl is seen performing at one scene. In that clip we can also see closeups of Bruce Organ.





Here is the video of the Boys rehearsing. Check out the close up of Carl's Rickenbacker at the end.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4V_YnY7Qx0


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Emdeeh on January 12, 2021, 07:20:19 AM
Just curious from watching that rehearsal clip, what is the deal with the reversed-colored section of keys on Bruce's keyboard? Does that set of keys have special functions?


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 12, 2021, 08:17:34 AM
Just curious from watching that rehearsal clip, what is the deal with the reversed-colored section of keys on Bruce's keyboard? Does that set of keys have special functions?

He's playing a Farfisa Compact, those reverse-color keys at the lower end of the keyboard were bass keys controlled by the top left row of tabs so you could play in the normal range, and also a lower bass octave with those reverse color keys. If I'm not mistaken either that model or other Farfisas also had a separate bass output (I think??? ) so you could split the bass and treble to separate amps for something like Ray Manzarek did with his Fender Piano Bass setup, just less range.  I could be wrong on that.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: juggler on January 12, 2021, 03:58:23 PM
Just curious from watching that rehearsal clip, what is the deal with the reversed-colored section of keys on Bruce's keyboard? Does that set of keys have special functions?

He's playing a Farfisa Compact, those reverse-color keys at the lower end of the keyboard were bass keys controlled by the top left row of tabs so you could play in the normal range, and also a lower bass octave with those reverse color keys. If I'm not mistaken either that model or other Farfisas also had a separate bass output (I think??? ) so you could split the bass and treble to separate amps for something like Ray Manzarek did with his Fender Piano Bass setup, just less range.  I could be wrong on that.

You're absolutely right.  If separate bass output wasn't standard on the Farfisa Compact, it was at least an option.
This page has links to some manuals and schematics.  In schematic of the set labeled "extras," you can see the separate bass output.
https://combo-organ.com/Schematics/index.htm


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 15, 2021, 02:31:23 PM
Hey all--as part of my academic research, I'm getting into a sort of thread of "pop music organology". (organology is not the study of organs, but in fact is the study of musical instruments.)

I'm trying to gather actual citable quotations or hard information about the Round wound vs Flat wound guitar- and bass-string trends in the zeitgeist surrounding the Beach Boys' ambit--the boys themselves, plus the session people.  If anybody can think of any direct quotes from primary sources about what strings they used, what strings they felt like they should use, when they changed from one to the other, etc, I would appreciate a tip.  It's a very nerdy avenue, but I think there's some merit in investigating this avenue of guitar culture.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: BBs Footage Saga on January 17, 2021, 10:13:35 AM
There was a video of David Marks talking bout the strings he used.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rebel on January 19, 2021, 09:14:37 PM
Well all fenders came with flat wounds. Rounds weren’t even appearing till 66? 67? And fender didn’t immediately adopt them. So I’d imagine all the way up to pet sounds is almost entirely flat wounds. Especially on all electric fenders.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: WillJC on January 20, 2021, 05:05:19 AM
.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 20, 2021, 07:29:56 AM
I think it's a myth that everything was flats.  Recall that round wounds were actually invented in the 17th century and by far the more common string throughout the history of strings.  I agree that Fender was flat-biased--in fact I've read that they designed their pickups specifically with flat wounds in mind.  And certainly, the electric bass was a new thing just a short time after flatwounds were invented (sometime around 1940-45 is when flats became available), so it does seem likely that pretty much every bass player was using flats through the mid 60s.

That being said, Carol has also stated that her Dano was strung with rounds, something that seems corroborated by the apparent fact that dano basses were shipped with rounds from the beginning.

However, after installing rounds in my own Dano bass, I'm not entirely happy with the sound vis-à-vis what bass VIs sound like on Beach Boys records.  (Of course, it's rarely Carol that's playing her dano on a Beach Boys record.)

As for guitars, I don't think the flat supremacy was quite as prevalent.  Barney Kessel, for instance, was known never to have switched to flat wounds, preferring burnished rounds on all his guitars.  I also read somewhere that Howard Roberts never liked flats.  Carl, in that gear interview with Billy Hinsche, said that he switched to lighter strings at some point in the 60s, before switching to really light strings in the late 60s.  I see no reason why he couldn't have started using rounds after his Jag got stolen and he stopped using Fenders so much.



Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 20, 2021, 09:04:05 AM
Answering this question about strings defines the term "Herculean task" lol. You can sometimes narrow it down using specific info from factory shipments and anecdotes from individual players, but it has to be remembered that each of what we'd call the most well-known players were experimenting and changing setups constantly, and what one guy did in 1963 was not what that same guy did in 1967. The specifics we do know are more general overviews than individual standards, unless the info comes directly from a certain player saying "I did this on that record".

Having said that, we can clear out the easy ones.

No electric bass part recorded on a standard electric bass of its day prior to the mid-to-late 60's was played on roundwound bass strings because they didn't exist. Rotosound developed the first set in the mid-60's, and it still took years for them to catch on. Players across the span of musical styles used flatwound strings on electric bass, and in the 60's it was John Entwistle who I believe is still credited as the most prominent player to openly use and endorse roundwound Rotosound strings.

In terms of studio use in the 60's era, it's a bit of a no-brainer: The players and producers wanted to avoid excess string and finger noise, simple as that.

And something to consider relative to the guitar discussion to come in a bit, many bassists *never* changed their strings. Two of the most recorded electric bassists of all time, James Jamerson and Joe Osborn were famous for never changing their bass strings, and all of their famous #1 hit records pretty much featured the same bass with the same strings dating back to the early 60's when they first got their instruments. The only "hack" I believe they did to clean the grime off the strings was to boil the strings in water and baking soda to remove the crud. I've done that - it works to a degree. But a lot of these guys never changed strings, and the sound of a sparkling new set of roundwound strings really didn't come into vogue until the late 70's or early 80's. I personally can't stand the sound of bright new roundwound strings on a bass, but if you're doing 80's and beyond styles and need that sound, there's the quick hack on how to get it - Put new strings on the bass lol.

So I'd say simply if you want "that sound" from the 60's era (into the 70's), put flatwounds on a P or J bass. If you want it further, play with a pick with light muting at the bridge. If you want it further than that, play through either a real or virtual Fender tube guitar amp like a Super or Twin, with a touch of reverb and slap echo. Boom, there it is, literally. If you want more of a Motown sound, play through a real or virtual Ampeg style bass amp for more low-end thump...

...even though at the actual Motown sessions the majority of both bass and guitar tracks were recorded direct into the board with no external amp except for a multi-channel amp thing set up by the engineers so the players could hear themselves on the studio floor. Barely any actual free-standing bass or guitar amps were used at those sessions.

But that's pretty much it for bass strings in this 60's era, unless you played bass for The Who or got a set of Rotosounds you were playing flatwounds through a tube bass amp. Most players used what came with the instrument until they wore out or broke, and others just bought whatever set of strings was available short of going to the factory or having a sponsorship.

More to come on guitar strings.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 20, 2021, 09:57:29 AM
Agreed that it's an Herculean task.  Which is the justification for studying it better.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 20, 2021, 10:51:09 AM
Now onto guitar strings of the era, maybe part one of a few explorations because it's literally impossible to nail down minus a few broad generalizations lol. If it would help I have a collection of Guitar Player magazines from 1967 (first year) going into the mid-70's which would feature ads and interviews and the like, but unfortunately before Guitar Player hit the stands there really wasn't a publication specific to guitar players which would list this info.

Just to put another angle on the issue of what strings certain players used, or what sets and gauges of strings, I'll list a few of my own examples. I use a D'Addario hybrid set called "light top heavy bottom", and have been for years if not 20 years on my main instruments. But in the past 5 years, I've been replacing the 10 gauge high E with an 11 gauge. I found it cuts through better, intonates better, and has more heft due to the tension, and does not break as easily especially on the Telecaster. So I buy these sets and then have to buy individual 11's separately for when I change them. On my Jazzmaster, when I first got it new, the factory had either 9's or 10's on it. And to be honest it kind of sucked. The bass E string would constantly pop off the saddle, and due to the fact I got that guitar specifically for 60's style instrumental and surf sounds this was a pain in the ass to constantly lose my bass E string during a song. What I found out was that two major things were wrong with the new models and the setup. First, the originals were designed for jazz guitarists and came from the factory with heavy strings, either 12's or 13's, and also from what I understand again due to the target audience of jazz guitarists they came set up with flatwounds. The neck on the Jazzmaster is a longer scale, and with lighter gauge strings, the unusual tension on that long neck caused the lower bass strings to not sit on the saddles with proper tension so they would ping out if you played harder like I tend to do on the instrumental surf material. As soon as you restring it with the *original* heavier gauges for which the instrument was designed in the late 50's to hold, it helps relieve that issue of the bass strings slipping out. The other issue is the neck length requires a special case to hold the guitar, as normal gig bags and hard cases won't fit the extra length, and it's literally an inch or so difference. Another pain in the ass, but I bought a special case for it and it works fine now.

My Danelectro 6-string bass came with factory roundwounds, and it gets all the classic tones you'd want. A lot depends on the way you dial in the tone on the guitar and amp, moreso the amp because it's best to max out all the tone knobs to 10 for the full voice of the lipstick pickups. I have the "baritone" strings on it, usually tuned A to A. I don't know about the bass 6 set's makeup, the octave under guitar string set, but I assume these have been roundwounds as well going back to at least the later 60's. I could be wrong.

To conclude this part, relating it to the Beach Boys and the musicians on their records, I have no doubt Carl's Jaguar fresh from the factory would have been strung with 12's or 13's and flatwound too. I believe that's how they came because again Fender was going after a jazz market and that was the setup for those specific guitars. As far as the Strat, it could have been either. Some guys say flatwounds were king in the early 60's, others say they used banjo strings or roundwounds.

What is known is all electric guitars up to the late 40's or 50's were roundwound strings. The instrument was still new, as was the technology of designing pickups to best amplify the strings. Some players were using acoustic string sets on electrics, and all acoustic strings were roundwound. When flatwounds did hit the market, it became the primary choice for jazz guitarists, and is still considered "the sound" for classic jazz guitar tone. But the early pioneers like Charlie Christian were using roundwounds, specifically Gibson "mona-steel" because that's what came from the factory. It's no wonder Charlie's devotees like Barney Kessel used those same setups - They were following what their main influences were known to use. Whereas followers of Wes Montgomery and 50's era jazz players would want that tone, so they used flatwounds. I think Chet Atkins always used roundwounds too, but knowing Chet (and Les Paul) they'd experiment with anything to try different sounds.

Then there's the whole issue of "ground-wounds", where the winding of the string would literally be ground off and polished for a flatwound feel. There's no way to know who did what in that regard, only that some companies would advertise "ground" strings which they'd actually grind and buff for customers. That's close to what we know as the half-round strings today, and I really haven't known many players who use these in modern years.


Just to sum up that part of it, we can assume players getting a guitar factory fresh in the late 50's and up to the late 60's would get heavier gauge strings averaging 12's or 13's for the gauge, and I can only assume given the model or the brand, some would be shipped with flatwounds and some with roundwounds (nickel).

The era in terms of replacement strings and parts for guitars in general was far, far different than we've had it since the 80's. There were simply no choices in brands for replacement strings like we have today. If you needed a new set of strings, in the US the main if not only choice to buy locally on a budget would be Black Diamond. And those would be whatever gauge the store would happen to have in stock, again usually 12's or 13's and they were not player-friendly. If you lived near a Fender factory or Gibson factory or were a sponsored player artist, you could get more specific with what you wanted, and they'd send test sets for you to try and give feedback.

But for the most part it was heavy gauge, somewhat difficult to play sets like Black Diamond or LaBella if you needed replacements up to the late 60's. Unless you ordered other sets direct from Fender or Gibson.

I'm talking mostly electric...acoustic strings were a whole other deal in terms of design and material/construction.

So the main developments in electric strings came from blues, country, and rock players who needed strings they could bend. You can't bend a wound 3rd string more than a half-step.

James Burton was perhaps the most prominent innovator who didn't invent the practice but made early rockabilly hits when he was a teenager with Dale Hawkins like Suzie Q, where those records featured string bending that was beyond what the available string sets would allow.

Very, very important thing Burton did, as well as others like Eddie Cochran who took it to UK players when he toured there...You'd take a standard string set, replace the high E with a super light banjo string at an 8 or 9 gauge, and simply shift all the other 5 strings over one peg. So the heavy A string became the E string, and you had a light gauge set adding that high banjo string...with an unwound G string as a result.

That was the ultimate trick or hack, right there. Many electric players did it, and it left a lot of excess heavy low E strings sitting unused in cases and boxes as a result. So there was no standard string set or even brand that offered these light gauge setups for players who needed to bend their G string like Burton and others. Prior to that, the best you could do would be a half step G bend or fast slide, which is why you hear players like George Harrison on the early stuff sliding those licks rather than bending.

I believe the first company to actually offer a light set which did not have to be cherrypicked from other string gauges was the Ernie Ball "Slinky" set in the late 60's. All other companies followed suit because of the popularity and demand from players, and heavy strings as the standard fell out of favor to where now almost all electric guitars are factory-shipped with 9's or 10's and have been since at least the 80's. Unless you are playing a specific jazz guitar model.

That's just one rundown of how strings are known and accepted now as standard setups versus how the original "vintage" instruments when they were new were actually strung and set up. It's pretty fascinating but at the same time nearly impossible to pin down because so many players did their own hybrid sets, and after Burton (among others) scored those hit records with that wild new bending sound for its day, the game was on as far as players doing their own stringing setups to access those same sounds and techniques.



Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 20, 2021, 11:29:43 AM
Thanks for that overview, Craig.

One of the primary strands of my scholarship has been considering the relationship between the musician and the instrument--looking at the psychology of why musicians choose to play the instruments they do, vs. the instruments they choose not to play.  This has taken me as far back as the 18th century.  It seems there has long been a tension between sonic aesthetics and visual aesthetics, plus the intangible factors of cultural, sentimental, and hidden biases.  There are so many different considerations in different instrument families, and the guitar family has its own set of choices.  I'm interested in the idea of looking at why people play what they do. 

To reference Craig's outline, how many guitarists simply use what their guitar came shipped with and never thought about it?  Did Carl play heavy flats on his Jag because that's what it came with?  Or was it more like, all the surf guys getting Jaguars played heavy flats because that's what they came with?  When does a guitarist start to think about what they actually want to hear and feel vs the utility of not putting a lot of thought into it?  Or how many people played the strings their mentors and idols play?

This goes beyond strings, of course.  What were the factors at play in Carl's mind when he chose a Guild Starfire VI to replace his Jag?  Why did he jettison the Fender XII for the Rickenbacker?  These are discrete choices he made, and that all musicians make, and I am fascinated by that mental process.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: DonnyL on January 20, 2021, 02:11:08 PM
Another thing to consider is: the 1960s studio scene was all about breaking rules & creating new standards. To me, that is one thing that quintessentially separates the '60s from the '70s and beyond- music industry standards were continually in flux to the point that they really had yet to be distinctly established IMO. This is exemplified by the fact that somewhere around say, 1968- it was common for a pro studio to have a 4-track, 8-track, 12-track, and/or 16-track recorder. By the time you get to the mid-'70s, every studio would be 24-track.

In terms of guitar strings ... we have things like Nashville tuning, Dano bass, Bellzouki, etc ... if you look at the back cover of PF Sloan's Measure of Pleasure record, you can see he's strung up his 12-string with something like 9-10 strings in a particular arrangement.

What I'm getting at is the people we are talking about - were all about breaking convention. So while they may have accepted certain conventions, they also may have challenged others and been an exception.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 20, 2021, 02:43:50 PM
I met PF Sloan, and that was indeed a convention-challenging dude right there.

It's a good point, Donny.  The 60s is of interest to me for the same reason -- the Standard Operating Procedure had not been settled upon.  There were standard ways of doing things, but these things were much more localized.  There was a standard way to record an orchestra playing classical music, and a standard way to do film scores, but popular music had yet to truly settle in.

And of course, in the 60s you really had the ultimate apotheosis of the promiscuity of the establishment and those looking to mix things up.  Never before and never since have we had someone like Barney Kessel playing guitar with somebody like Glen Campbell on, say, a Sinatra record.  But the funny thing is, you could look at Barney Kessel as an establishment, pro jazz guy, but he was really innovative in his jazz world, even if he seemed conservative to somebody like, Glen or Jerry Cole.  And then you have people like Brian Wilson whose influences were really not like his contemporaries, using these people in his own way.



Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Mitchell on January 20, 2021, 09:11:02 PM
Just popping in to add that it would be interesting to know if/how John Maus might've influenced Carl and David's string choices if they went off stock (a teacher can have a more direct influence).


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: DonnyL on January 20, 2021, 11:50:07 PM
I met PF Sloan, and that was indeed a convention-challenging dude right there.

It's a good point, Donny.  The 60s is of interest to me for the same reason -- the Standard Operating Procedure had not been settled upon.  There were standard ways of doing things, but these things were much more localized.  There was a standard way to record an orchestra playing classical music, and a standard way to do film scores, but popular music had yet to truly settle in.

And of course, in the 60s you really had the ultimate apotheosis of the promiscuity of the establishment and those looking to mix things up.  Never before and never since have we had someone like Barney Kessel playing guitar with somebody like Glen Campbell on, say, a Sinatra record.  But the funny thing is, you could look at Barney Kessel as an establishment, pro jazz guy, but he was really innovative in his jazz world, even if he seemed conservative to somebody like, Glen or Jerry Cole.  And then you have people like Brian Wilson whose influences were really not like his contemporaries, using these people in his own way.



Wow really? You’ve got to tell me about meeting PF Sloan. He’s up there to me with Brian Wilson, I have  all of his records. Very inspirational and super underrated. I also found his book very moving.

https://youtu.be/w1HG6ATknOA

He also was basically the artist for most of the first Grass Roots record (1966), a classic that has gone way under the radar.

https://youtu.be/JvHlbwQiCtA


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 21, 2021, 07:21:08 AM
Just popping in to add that it would be interesting to know if/how John Maus might've influenced Carl and David's string choices if they went off stock (a teacher can have a more direct influence).

Great point.  Maus is such an interesting shadowy figure to me.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 21, 2021, 07:33:13 AM
Wow really? You’ve got to tell me about meeting PF Sloan.

Sure.  Although this is going to be a sort of embarrassing bit of name dropping...

I met him at Alan Boyd's house sometime in 2006 or 7.  Cameron Michael Parkes was over there producing some tracks for the Jan Berry tribute record.  Alan had a pretty solid recording set up and he and I were doing the engineering.  We worked on the "I Found a Girl" cover.   Probyn G came over to put some trumpet and horn parts on it, and PF came by to put harmonica on it.  He wasn't there for long--just did a couple of passes into my Shure 545.  But we chatted a bit.  He was super into Westerns, which I am not, so he talked about those.  He seemed well, but with the same sort of tiredness-of-spirit that I felt from Brian.

I have a photo or two somewhere.  I'll see if I can find them.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 21, 2021, 07:54:06 AM
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5ff9d99d6bbc7c34529a6785/1611244227717-PESGNSC74V286ZY8B9UE/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kM1mu9u7V_pQVidu0YjmpwUUqsxRUqqbr1mOJYKfIPR7LoDQ9mXPOjoJoqy81S2I8N_N4V1vUb5AoIIIbLZhVYxCRW4BPu10St3TBAUQYVKcGIn1iJLOF_U12Cqb56ODdTAwnMQsn4YDFbO6_QRzLh0FVkgS6EkQ0Ix0rLKWNJ7K/PFandAlan.jpg?format=1000w)
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5ff9d99d6bbc7c34529a6785/1611244233166-HZI7ZOCAEMVQLYEX7N2H/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kOcSqOC1e5EDrNIfM0PAQ2kUqsxRUqqbr1mOJYKfIPR7LoDQ9mXPOjoJoqy81S2I8N_N4V1vUb5AoIIIbLZhVYxCRW4BPu10St3TBAUQYVKcer6sFTY36SsYOrg74oEjUqtgbhXD57HUQKb3AoTuSrB0dc_m70GxWO5xAkM0iCbn/PFandCameron.jpg?format=1000w)
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5ff9d99d6bbc7c34529a6785/1611244307676-R4CZKRO1EF22GS291LHO/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kPMmmX16NIzPMcCmaUFvID1Zw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWQUxwkmyExglNqGp0IvTJZamWLI2zvYWH8K3-s_4yszcp2ryTI0HqTOaaUohrI8PI0mx1ElCq3q1gBGgNtnt0E1IMz7aXwgrss5C2uYouhOQKMshLAGzx4R3EDFOm1kBS/PF2+copy.jpg?format=1000w)
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5ff9d99d6bbc7c34529a6785/1611244242384-2JJZI58LXOHD3FVAVSGD/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kGTmrViNiI3c-cPG0oJXRDgUqsxRUqqbr1mOJYKfIPR7LoDQ9mXPOjoJoqy81S2I8N_N4V1vUb5AoIIIbLZhVYxCRW4BPu10St3TBAUQYVKcXMwU3bcPXQlGfZeAHgJ5LHrE6inKBw_Se0Szli16dg7Qu3LyZA31mzeLtCoKh7iQ/Probyn1.jpg?format=1000w)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on January 21, 2021, 07:54:53 AM
Looks like we ended up using my Rode NT-1 on PF.  We may have auditioned my EV RE-15 too, you can see it there.  Hope you enjoy the photos.  It was quite a day for me.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on January 21, 2021, 12:07:26 PM
Rearding what kind of strings the Boys used, here is David talking about it shortly at ca. 7:36 mins.


Beach Boys: David Marks Guitar Clinic Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk-HhvXO7O4


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 21, 2021, 01:16:14 PM
Rearding what kind of strings the Boys used, here is David talking about it shortly at ca. 7:36 mins.


Beach Boys: David Marks Guitar Clinic Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk-HhvXO7O4

Skipping ahead a bit because David Marks naturally covered one of the main topics on the list to consider!  ;D

Confirming the issues about the "stock" string sets available and how they did not allow the kinds of bends players would hear and want to do, players like Carl and David who were learning Chuck Berry and T-Bone Walker and James Burton licks would either need to do the hack I described above where you'd get a thin high E from a banjo set and move the other strings one over, or compensate like George Harrison did playing those licks by sliding or doing a half-step instead of a full step bend.

Enter Ernie Ball, and a very big factor in a lot of these histories and backstories: Timing AND location.

Ernie Ball had been trying to get manufacturers to make an actual string set to match what the players had to do with banjo gauges and existing sets. None of them wanted to do it and rejected Ernie's ideas, so he found a factory who would make string sets to Ernie's specs.

Ernie had a music store that only sold guitars and accessories, and that shop was in the same area as the LA session players and The Beach Boys. This was before Ernie became a brand that stocked other music stores, and he sold these strings out of his shop to the "local" players as word spread of his light gauge bendable strings.

So The Beach Boys were not only in the same general area (relatively speaking) as the Fender guitar and amp factory, but also relatively close to the one guy who was changing the string industry by selling actual string sets that previously were not available unless players did the banjo hack.

I don't believe Ernie's "Slinky" strings went fully national as a brand until the later 60's (fact check?)  but he and his strings were available to Carl Wilson and David in his early days, so they could get the bendable Ernie Ball light strings as well as guitars, basses, and amps fresh from the Fender plant, for a terrific matching backline of white guitars and basses (along with Fender piggyback amps and reverb tanks) of the type young players would covet when they saw the cover of "In Concert" and other photos/films.

Location, location, location. And timing too. Those are often the key factors in which players used which gear at a given time.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: DonnyL on January 21, 2021, 08:46:11 PM
WOW/ thanks for those pics! Really cool man.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Emdeeh on January 30, 2021, 09:07:23 PM
Billy Hinsche was playing one of Carl Wilson's acoustic guitars on his show tonight:
https://www.facebook.com/billy.hinsche/videos/5661595767200003



Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on February 02, 2021, 01:35:49 AM
Billy Hinsche was playing one of Carl Wilson's acoustic guitars on his show tonight:
https://www.facebook.com/billy.hinsche/videos/5661595767200003




Billy just posted a couple of pictures of it along with this message:

Beach Boy CARL WILSON’s personal guitar - the extremely rare and valuable 1971 vintage DAVID RUSSELL YOUNG custom made 6-string acoustic I played during my recent LIVE FROM BILLY’s PLACE show #44, on loan to me from its current owner, my nephew - JUSTYN CARL WILSON ...


And this link:

https://www.fretboardjournal.com/columns/catch-day-1972-david-russell-young-custom-dreadnought/?back=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fclient%3Dsafari%26as_qdr%3Dall%26as_occt%3Dany%26safe%3Dactive%26as_q%3DDavid%20Russell%20young%20guitars%26channel%3Daplab%26source%3Da-app1%26hl%3Den&fbclid=IwAR2xduImXJpZ7Kbfs92vk_VM56RyeE5kA86NHu735JEWGaxZiV34Pb1K320


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on April 08, 2021, 12:44:39 PM
Posted this link in the Pro Shot Concerts List for more information of date and place, but what I just saw and wondered: What kind of guitar is Carl playing here? At first I thought it was a Tele but a closer shot put that to rest. I don't think I've ever seen him with this one:


Ca. 1992/1993

https://youtu.be/6OUv8O_bSxA?t=1020


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on April 08, 2021, 01:21:27 PM
Posted this link in the Pro Shot Concerts List for more information of date and place, but what I just saw and wondered: What kind of guitar is Carl playing here? At first I thought it was a Tele but a closer shot put that to rest. I don't think I've ever seen him with this one:


Ca. 1992/1993

https://youtu.be/6OUv8O_bSxA?t=1020

Some kind of off brand tele copy... 


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: c-man on April 09, 2021, 05:23:51 AM
Posted this link in the Pro Shot Concerts List for more information of date and place, but what I just saw and wondered: What kind of guitar is Carl playing here? At first I thought it was a Tele but a closer shot put that to rest. I don't think I've ever seen him with this one:


Ca. 1992/1993

https://youtu.be/6OUv8O_bSxA?t=1020

Some kind of off brand tele copy... 

Could be a custom-made job modeled off the Tele design - the Stones have used a lot of custom-made Tele, Strat, and Les Paul copies over the years.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on April 09, 2021, 07:53:54 AM
It's not a straight copy though. Look at that thing:


(https://s18.directupload.net/images/210409/3f7fcowf.png) (https://www.directupload.net)


Are those Humbuckers? The head and obviously the rear body are very different to a Tele.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on April 09, 2021, 08:00:34 AM
I wonder if it's an ESP...  It's kind of a Tele migrating toward a Les Paul shape.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on April 09, 2021, 12:54:34 PM
I tried to get a better shot of the guitar. Here's what I got:


(https://s20.directupload.net/images/210409/9cem894f.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net)


(https://s12.directupload.net/images/210409/tfcbnetd.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net)


(https://s18.directupload.net/images/210409/2ljzp8gn.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net)


(https://s8.directupload.net/images/210409/qlayojel.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on April 09, 2021, 01:12:07 PM
The headstock is throwing me off.  The three-a-side tuners and the kind of pointy profile are unusual.  It looks a lot like any number of 80s-90s guitars modeled after the classic shapes - Charvel, Hamer, ESP, etc... but that headstock is not familiar to me.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: DeanEntwistle on April 09, 2021, 07:14:17 PM
Here's another 1995-performance where Carl can be seen playing the same guitar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn905_69mKk


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on April 09, 2021, 08:11:02 PM
Here's another 1995-performance where Carl can be seen playing the same guitar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn905_69mKk

Huh, sure enough -- only with different pickups.  I still don't recognize that headstock...


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: c-man on April 09, 2021, 08:23:02 PM
So happens I've got a late '90s ESP Horizon, although not the Tele body-style. Headstock seems similar, but I can't tell enough from the blurry images here. If only Carl would hold still, especially for a close up...

I recall the Stones (or at least Ronnie) used ESPs quite a lot in the '80s, mostly Strat-style bodies, but the headstocks were different.

EDIT: Nah, the headstock on mine is pointier than what Carl's playing here.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on April 10, 2021, 03:26:06 AM
So happens I've got a late '90s ESP Horizon, although not the Tele body-style. Headstock seems similar, but I can't tell enough from the blurry images here. If only Carl would hold still, especially for a close up...

I recall the Stones (or at least Ronnie) used ESPs quite a lot in the '80s, mostly Strat-style bodies, but the headstocks were different.

EDIT: Nah, the headstock on mine is pointier than what Carl's playing here.


I saw an ESP Horizon from the mid-90s with a headstock that looks similar to Carl's. Obviously only the headstock, the guitar itself is a different one.

(https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--hQzS1cv9--/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_south,h_620,q_90,w_620/v1438286031/xvoiejzsbous3pwpnyhd.jpg)


ESP Horizon Guitar MIJ mid 1990's Made In Japan (https://reverb.com/item/1117366-esp-horizon-guitar-mij-mid-1990-s-made-in-japan)



EDIT: Forget it. I just took another look and it seems like Carl's guitar's head is sharper.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on April 11, 2021, 02:19:08 AM
That headstock screams Ibanez to me, but it won't match with anything I can find on the web. Something like this comes fairly close, but still, the head... Carl's has tuners on both sides, this one only on one.


(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MtUweM7PMHo/VaQK2m_fFgI/AAAAAAAALvY/c6yGMDu1sZ4/s1600/%2524_57%2B%25281%2529.JPG)

http://guitarz.blogspot.com/2015/07/ibanez-fr365tfb-sunburst-tele-monday.html


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: c-man on April 11, 2021, 12:12:00 PM
It's not a straight copy though. Look at that thing:


(https://s18.directupload.net/images/210409/3f7fcowf.png) (https://www.directupload.net)


Are those Humbuckers? The head and obviously the rear body are very different to a Tele.

I'll be darned if the headstock doesn't look kinda like a Baldwin here!


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Wiggy on April 11, 2021, 10:35:26 PM
It's not a straight copy though. Look at that thing:


(https://s18.directupload.net/images/210409/3f7fcowf.png) (https://www.directupload.net)


Are those Humbuckers? The head and obviously the rear body are very different to a Tele.

The headstock looks exactly like my Westone Thunder 1-A (Japanese guitar made in the 80s) which has humbuckers, though all those models had the volume and tone knobs in a straight line.

I was browsing around https://westoneguitars.net/guitars/ (https://westoneguitars.net/guitars/) to see if I could spot anything similar. The Prestige Series https://westoneguitars.net/guitars/prestige-series/ (https://westoneguitars.net/guitars/prestige-series/) seems closest, though the colours don't match the model Carl is playing, though I can't easily tell whether the models from other years match. Their 1984 catalog shows this :

 (https://westoneguitars.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/033.jpg) .

Wiggy.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on April 12, 2021, 06:09:46 AM
That's probably the closest thing yet. Thanks, Wiggy!
The upper cutaway looks rounder on Carl's guitar though, doesn't it? But that may be just a different model.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on May 04, 2021, 11:34:55 AM
I guess you know Norman's Rare Guitars. They just got a new load of guitars, including a Carl Wilson Rickenbacker. At ca. 6:30 mins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW8R0wj1XME


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on May 13, 2021, 04:22:53 AM
It's not a straight copy though. Look at that thing:


(https://s18.directupload.net/images/210409/3f7fcowf.png) (https://www.directupload.net)


Are those Humbuckers? The head and obviously the rear body are very different to a Tele.



Looks like Carl is playing the same guitar on July 4th 1995:


(https://s20.directupload.net/images/210513/sb8r5j5p.png) (https://www.directupload.net)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GenjG494HFU


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on May 15, 2021, 03:49:42 AM
I just came across this forum and thread:

https://www.tdpri.com/threads/beach-boys-guitar-setup.323097/


There's someone who got to talk to Al about some technical stuff. I'll just copy some of the things he posted in here. The main discussion unfortunately is starting from the wrong idea that the Beach Boys didn't play on their records and that instead it was the Wrecking Crew from the early beginning.


I too wondered and luckily one Beach Boy, Al Jardine, lives nearby and I used to see him at the library and at the store. I asked him about his sound and wondered if he used a 3 position Stratocaster or a 5 position Stratocaster. He told me his had 4 positions and he liked the in between tone. I don't know if the techie wired it that way or he was mistaken and used only 4 out of 5 positions or carefully put the selector switch either between 1 and 2 or 2 and 3 (if it was a 3 position setup).

He didn't seem all that concerned about gear and was a songwriter for the song at heart and working for that. On his level, what separates his band from the Stones or the Beatles (and we talked about this) were the songs. I didn't understand it all then as I was a kid but now I see when one band has Revolver, another has Aftermath, then another Pet Sounds, and then Sgt. Pepper, then it's all about the compositions as the '60s really came into their own for rock and roll. Deeper than that we talked about what's inside and he was into TM even though I never looked into that.

 



 
Doug 54 said: ↑

        At times in late 60's Carl would use a blonde Tele w/Bigsby.


   
That was acutally Al's backup guitar (among several backups) and it ended up with one of my friends who didn't play, who was friend's with Al's son Matt Jardine (who at that time also didn't play). In a jam session, he brought it in with "Beach Boys" spray painted on a flight case and pulled it out for us to jam on. I knew with Al's studio just down the coast from town and this guy being Matt's friend, it was the real thing. I expected to see a white strat, but Al kept that and this was the tele with bigsby on it. I don't ever remember Al telling me about that guitar but being a Beach Boy, I am sure he had everything. In reverence to the Beach Boys I didn't use it for our jam session and told the kid to put it back in its case and at least, learn how to play and keep it with the non-original but official Beach Boys case.

In high school I urged Matt to jam with my band, but he didn't seem to be into it but later he joined his dad's band.

Anyway, here's Carl playing it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ1UqDnY7as

   




Thanks! The next time I saw a late-60s era Telecaster with Bigsby was about ten years later when a guitar player had one listed in the paper for $650. It was basically the same as Al's guitar but in the neighboring small town, and this guitar was refretted by local luthier who does all stuff around here including Al's guitars, and it was stripped and refinished to make it look like a natural wood instrument. Stripping colored teles was common then.

The original finish, from the cavity, was the same off white as Al's, and being done up by same luthier it made me wonder if this was somehow the same instrument. There was no way for me to tell and I had lost any contact with Al or his son and the son's friend. I live in a small town, back then which had more people in the past and maybe 3,000 residents, and late-60s Bigsby Telecasters just don't come around my parts that often.

The one thing which makes this guitar seem different was that it came with original Fender hardshell black case. The case I had seen Al's tele in was the flight case with Beach Boys designation on it. I kept this one for awhile and it was a very nice sounding guitar which I got to put on a couple of tracks on a CD in '91.






Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on May 15, 2021, 06:47:42 AM
Man, that thread is infuriating.  It's from 2012 but I'm sure those attitudes are still around.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on May 16, 2021, 01:22:37 PM
Here's yet another shot of Carl with that mysterious guitar from above. Probably the best picture yet:


(https://www.reviewjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/11003659_web1_60420_ne2018823122247232.jpg)

https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/aviatorsbaseball/5-things-you-might-not-know-about-cashman-field-in-las-vegas/


So, anyone got an idea?


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on May 17, 2021, 08:00:14 PM
I remain stumped and assuming it's a boutique deal.  Maybe one to run by Hinsche?


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Emdeeh on May 17, 2021, 08:16:58 PM
Running now.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on May 18, 2021, 01:59:39 AM
I remain stumped and assuming it's a boutique deal.  Maybe one to run by Hinsche?


That's a good idea! Since Carl obviously played it over a periode of time, he may remember it as opposed to a one-off concert.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 18, 2021, 07:55:53 AM
I haven't commented on this one, even though I'm more than familiar with that July 4th '95 show in Philly! I'll wait like everyone to see what Billy H. says about it. But for me, the headstock helps tell part of the story. That is a pretty "rough" headstock, meaning it's pretty roughly cut and shaped and has no real design or signature curves or angles to it, and it's an unorthodox layout of the tuning pegs - very unusual actually. And that's why I think it may be a custom maker's guitar rather than a brand or even a small factory's model. The headstock - surprisingly - is a main element of a guitar's design which is subject to copyright. So if some guy cranks out guitars in his basement with a copycat PRS or Gibson cut on the headstock without going through channels, he'll get slapped with a lawsuit.

So until Billy H clears this up, if he does, that could be a one-off guitar either sold or given to Carl but to my eyes it isn't a production model from a known maker...and thus it's pretty hard to ID without inside knowledge.

This reminds me of a similar time around the Beatles Anthology hoopla when George Harrison was pictured with an unusual-looking electric guitar that no one outside the guitar community could identify, and it turned out to be from a custom builder named Bernie Hamburger who had made instruments for Carl Perkins and George and still has a company called Hamburguitar making hand-built instruments: http://www.hamburguitar.com/ (http://www.hamburguitar.com/)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Emdeeh on May 18, 2021, 11:50:00 AM
Billy Hinsche thinks the guitar might be a Carvel or a custom model, and he's looking further into it.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on May 19, 2021, 03:36:50 AM
Billy Hinsche thinks the guitar might be a Carvel or a custom model, and he's looking further into it.


Great. Thank you!





This reminds me of a similar time around the Beatles Anthology hoopla when George Harrison was pictured with an unusual-looking electric guitar that no one outside the guitar community could identify, and it turned out to be from a custom builder named Bernie Hamburger who had made instruments for Carl Perkins and George and still has a company called Hamburguitar making hand-built instruments: http://www.hamburguitar.com/ (http://www.hamburguitar.com/)


Ah yes, I remember reading how he got the guitar to Carl and Harrison resp.
BTW some info about Carl Perkins' guitars can be found here: http://the-jime.dk/Rockabilly_Guitar/Carl_Perkins_Guitars_and_Amps.htm


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: jparis51 on May 19, 2021, 06:40:14 AM
Billy Hinsche thinks the guitar might be a Carvel or a custom model, and he's looking further into it.

The best resemblance to that headstock I can find is a Jackson, and they controlled the Charvel name. They were founded in California in 1980.

https://www.jacksonguitars.com/gear/guitars/pro-series-monarkh-sc/2916921568


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on May 19, 2021, 03:17:42 PM
It seems to be possibly/likely a Charvel guitar body. While it's a sort of rip-off of other more famous guitar body styles (a Telecaster most specifically), this Charvel variant of that style is distinctive with the slightly oblong upper part of the body near the neck matched with the cutaway on the lower part.

Here are some examples (first is from 1989, second and third are newer updated versions of the same body type):

(http://www.charvelusa.com/models/1989_charvel_models/charvel_te_070_ss.jpg)

(https://c1.zzounds.com/media/productmedia/fit,2018by3200/quality,85/2966561576_gtr_cntbdyright_001_nr-1-_810708-c6c626eaab3d7ef241ebd0fd5bd2e21b.jpg)

(https://c1.zzounds.com/media/productmedia/fit,2018by3200/quality,85/rotate,-90/2966561576_gtr_frt_001_rr-1-_810708-c3c0704e0328dd13997b71ad9e8efa88.jpg)

These guitars have different pickup, etc. configurations of course.

The headstock is obviously different, and sure enough, it indeed seems to match one style of Jackson headstock:

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0266/7708/4238/products/c2798b25-eea6-4766-8460-b05659b553ed_1200x.jpg?v=1615391682)

So one possibility is a Charvel body with a Jackson neck/headstock. It does appear by the 90s they were part of the same company. 



Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 19, 2021, 07:38:34 PM
Check out "Carvin", now named "Kiesel", instead of Charvel and you'll find some closer body styles and headstocks to what Carl is playing. That body style on Carl's axe is wider and has a much different cut (especially on that ballooned-out upper bout) than the Charvel-Jackson designs ever had. I'm going with this guitar as custom build unless word comes back that it was a Carvin, the features don't line up with Charvel/Jackson and there does not appear to be a marking on that headstock where both Charvel and Jackson had a very identifiable name or logo on their models, and Carvin had their name on their axes too.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on May 20, 2021, 06:41:28 AM
Carvin did/does indeed have some very similar body styles with the single cutaway Telecaster-knockoff style.

I think it's totally plausible that Carl's guitar was a custom job, though I think it's possible it was a custom hodge podge of pre-existing parts rather than made from scratch. That ballooned-out upper portion of the body is indeed pretty distinct (the most distinct thing about whatever Carl is playing anyway), so that would be kind of an odd thing to copy from a Carvin (or Charvel or Jackson) guitar if one were making a guitar from scratch. Though it's possible someone commissioned a full custom job based on pieces they liked from other guitars.

It's actually surprising that, given the nearly 40 years Carl spent touring, there aren't more perplexing guitar cases like this. Al and Carl didn't go wild with guitar swap-outs over the years, which is of course why when they *did* pop up with something weird like this Carl guitar in the 90s, it stands out so much.

And because Carl didn't swap guitars out super often, and because the band was never a guitar-heavy band in concert with a bunch of different tones and styles, it's difficult to get a strong handle on what Carl "liked" in his guitars. We know *which* guitars he liked, but we know less about *why* he liked them. We know he loved that old "Old Yeller" Strat, but not so much why. We also don't know why he didn't use it very long on tour (late 70s through 1980 was about it). It was a very valuable guitar all on its own without any BB provenance, so maybe Carl didn't want to risk losing it or damaging it?


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on May 20, 2021, 07:17:07 AM
Gotta say: Great research, guys!


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 20, 2021, 01:53:00 PM
Carvin did/does indeed have some very similar body styles with the single cutaway Telecaster-knockoff style.

I think it's totally plausible that Carl's guitar was a custom job, though I think it's possible it was a custom hodge podge of pre-existing parts rather than made from scratch. That ballooned-out upper portion of the body is indeed pretty distinct (the most distinct thing about whatever Carl is playing anyway), so that would be kind of an odd thing to copy from a Carvin (or Charvel or Jackson) guitar if one were making a guitar from scratch. Though it's possible someone commissioned a full custom job based on pieces they liked from other guitars.

It's actually surprising that, given the nearly 40 years Carl spent touring, there aren't more perplexing guitar cases like this. Al and Carl didn't go wild with guitar swap-outs over the years, which is of course why when they *did* pop up with something weird like this Carl guitar in the 90s, it stands out so much.

And because Carl didn't swap guitars out super often, and because the band was never a guitar-heavy band in concert with a bunch of different tones and styles, it's difficult to get a strong handle on what Carl "liked" in his guitars. We know *which* guitars he liked, but we know less about *why* he liked them. We know he loved that old "Old Yeller" Strat, but not so much why. We also don't know why he didn't use it very long on tour (late 70s through 1980 was about it). It was a very valuable guitar all on its own without any BB provenance, so maybe Carl didn't want to risk losing it or damaging it?

Replying to the line in bold, there is something really fascinating about Carl Wilson and his choice of guitars, and at least in the period of the late 80's and 90's, we actually do have a clue as to what Carl was looking for in a guitar. I'm going to link a thread I did from some research back in 2012 (sorry, the photos are watermarked and unavailable to expand due to that host changing protocol since '12) :

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14847.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14847.0.html)

We all know Carl got a "tribute" signature model Rickenbacker, basically the model and design he played in the 60's. But Carl and Rickenbacker also collaborated on a true signature model and design that apparently only made it to two prototype builds, which are still at the Rickenbacker offices. You'll see a handful of photos I grabbed at that link, but here is one showing both guitars:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/cwr2.jpg)

What struck me *immediately* on these was the modern features and design of Carl's own namesake guitars. They're far from vintage-styled, yet I think most of assume Carl was more of a vintage-type player because of what he played on stage for so long, and what he's associated with.

Yet, when he designed and chose the features and hardware on his own guitar with Rickenbacker, look at what he went with. That's a modern tremolo system on both examples, the electronics and pickups are modern (not toaster-tops), and the whole vibe of the design is sleek and modern for that era.

Not to requote the entire post from 2012, but what happened is Carl became too ill to complete the collaboration with Rickenbacker, and the story is that his family eventually took over the collaboration and that's how the Carl Wilson Rickenbacker turned into a vintage reissue versus a truly new, modern design.

And as far as I know, those are the only two prototypes that exist, and barely anyone knows that Carl was actively working with Rickenbacker like this, and that they actually did two builds for him.

So I'd have to say Carl was perhaps more progressive in terms of his guitar preferences than a lot of us may have thought or still think, again due to his use of his vintage guitars on stage for decades with The Beach Boys. I wonder where he would have been going with either the band's music or perhaps with more solo projects down the road if he was going to be associated with such a modern signature model guitar that really doesn't say "vintage" in many ways based on those prototypes. It is a cool guitar, especially the more deluxe model with the white binding and the more ornate fretboard inlays (like the difference between a Rick 330 and 360).





Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on May 21, 2021, 05:56:28 AM
It would be a nice tribute to Carl's legacy if that Rick would be released with only necessary adjustements.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on May 21, 2021, 06:53:12 AM
Keep in mind that if a guitar company is going to release a signature model for general sale, they also have to look at the marketability of it. Not just in terms of the name attached to it, but whether folks are going to want that look and those design features.

I'm not sure in the present day that those Carl Rickenbacker designs (which, ironically, tend to more resemble that Carvin/Charvel/Jackson model we've been trying to ID than they resemble any sort of "classic" Ricky look) would be hugely desirable based on the look and features.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on May 21, 2021, 06:55:58 AM
Another very short term Carl guitar selection was the black Les Paul he's seen playing at the Wembley 1980 show:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-beach-boys-performing-at-wembley-arena-london-1980-picture-id75612982?s=612x612)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on May 21, 2021, 07:00:44 AM
Some late era Carl Strat action, from 1994 (in infamous El Camino gig where Brian is watching from the wings) and then 1996 (also infamous Baywatch episode):

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGkTp13W0AE5eoI.jpg)

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/87031098_2497086577228024_8992935221674377216_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=6KGTMh-NokUAX-7wJDD&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=a56400f3625597cb486b414e7f585190&oe=60CD63E5)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on May 21, 2021, 07:27:33 AM
Some late era Carl Strat action, from 1994 (in infamous El Camino gig where Brian is watching from the wings)


Never heard of that. What was infamous about it? And why would Brian not come out for at least a song or two? They played "Forever" during that show according to Eric's site. But I guess it was a Stamos performance.

https://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/8-6-94.html



Carl did play a strat from time to time in the 90s, mostly on the closing songs, I belive. I wasn't aware of that until somebody pointed that out to me (possibly on this messageboard).


EDIT: You're of course correct regarding the Rick. If there's no chance it would sell, nobody would get it out. But apart from the Carl connection, it might be just a great guitar. So you have to wonder if that wouldn't be a reason.



EDIT 2: There's some footage of the El Camino show:

Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2U92iv-Atw

Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH-tgec97eA


You can see Carl with that "Carvin" guitar during "Hawaii" and "Do it again"


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Emdeeh on May 21, 2021, 08:15:09 AM
Justyn Wilson uses that sunburst Strat nowadays, a gift from his Dad.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 21, 2021, 09:07:14 AM
Rickenbacker in the 90's was going for a more updated, modern style on some of their new lines and designs. Their solidbody designs like the 620 and 650 in the 1990's - plus some new color options - were going for more modern players and tastes. They also had a 700 line of acoustics. I was a Rickenbacker fanatic at the time, and would go from music store to music store asking about them. In doing so, I scored a big wall poster with their full line of guitars, as well as a bunch of smaller posters and literature...but no one, and I mean no one, had the actual guitars for sale. They were damn hard to find much less buy. The only 620/650 I saw was years later in a pawn shop, and I should have bought it but didn't have the funds at that time.

So that Carl Wilson signature model that was in the works in the mid-90's actually fit into Rickenbacker's push to offer more modern designs, but as with so much else in the guitar world, buyers seem to want the vintage classics and classic designs. I think that alone tells us why they did the Carl tribute model as a reissue of the 60's design, that's one of the main guitars Carl was associated with for a lot of musicians, and that's what had more of a chance of selling to those musicians.

But I do like the cut and design of the unused Carl model, even though some of the features being from the 90's are by now a little out of date, like the tremolo system (change a string on THAT! lol) and the electronics.

What's also unusual to me is why Carl never went back to playing Rickenbacker 12-strings after the 60's, and not to take away from his various Gibsons/Epiphones/etc, but those Gibson 335-style 12-strings had a bad habit of being prone to breaking around the headstock and neck, and I know at least one of Carl's if not several had to be repaired for that exact reason through the years of touring.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on May 21, 2021, 11:41:07 AM
I think that was the first thing most big fans thought when they announced the Carl Rickenbacker signature model - has he used one since like 1965?

They even did a promo poster with an 80s shot of Carl (which I believe used one of Emdeeh's photos) where they had to remove the guitar Carl was playing and paste in a Rickenbacker into his hands:

(https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0712/21/rickenbacker-carl-wilson-limited_1_2a79cb5f31e27b63be85fdf558b05d4c.jpg)

Nice photo; lame photochop.

A less glamorous but more apt signature model would have been a replica of his natural Gibson ES-335 that is the guitar you most see him with from the late 70s through to 1997.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on May 21, 2021, 02:27:44 PM
Another very short term Carl guitar selection was the black Les Paul he's seen playing at the Wembley 1980 show:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-beach-boys-performing-at-wembley-arena-london-1980-picture-id75612982?s=612x612)

I think that Les Paul got played more by Al and Eddie than Carl, even though it was technically owned by Carl.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: RJM on May 21, 2021, 06:53:21 PM
I think that was the first thing most big fans thought when they announced the Carl Rickenbacker signature model - has he used one since like 1965?

They even did a promo poster with an 80s shot of Carl (which I believe used one of Emdeeh's photos) where they had to remove the guitar Carl was playing and paste in a Rickenbacker into his hands:

(https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0712/21/rickenbacker-carl-wilson-limited_1_2a79cb5f31e27b63be85fdf558b05d4c.jpg)

Nice photo; lame photochop.

A less glamorous but more apt signature model would have been a replica of his natural Gibson ES-335 that is the guitar you most see him with from the late 70s through to 1997.

Curiously, here’s Carl playing a Rickenbacker in 1996 on a TV appearance.


https://youtu.be/V791W96hMD8


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on May 22, 2021, 02:41:45 AM
I think that was the first thing most big fans thought when they announced the Carl Rickenbacker signature model - has he used one since like 1965?

They even did a promo poster with an 80s shot of Carl (which I believe used one of Emdeeh's photos) where they had to remove the guitar Carl was playing and paste in a Rickenbacker into his hands:

(https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0712/21/rickenbacker-carl-wilson-limited_1_2a79cb5f31e27b63be85fdf558b05d4c.jpg)

Nice photo; lame photochop.

A less glamorous but more apt signature model would have been a replica of his natural Gibson ES-335 that is the guitar you most see him with from the late 70s through to 1997.

Curiously, here’s Carl playing a Rickenbacker in 1996 on a TV appearance.


https://youtu.be/V791W96hMD8



Nice catch! There's also a TV performance of "California dreamin'" from '86 with Carl playing a Rick, but since that one was playback to the original recording, I guess it doesn't mean as much.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on May 26, 2021, 02:21:03 AM
Some late era Carl Strat action, from 1994 (in infamous El Camino gig where Brian is watching from the wings) and then 1996 (also infamous Baywatch episode):



Carl is playing that as of yet still unknown guitar and later on a strat during this show's encore:


The Beach Boys at the Illinois State Fair August 11th, 1996 Springfield, IL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t97PSJ1Lzp8


This isn't a bad copy of a pro shot concert, is it? The camera work looks better than amateur stuff.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on May 26, 2021, 07:20:58 AM
Some late era Carl Strat action, from 1994 (in infamous El Camino gig where Brian is watching from the wings) and then 1996 (also infamous Baywatch episode):



Carl is playing that as of yet still unknown guitar and later on a strat during this show's encore:


The Beach Boys at the Illinois State Fair August 11th, 1996 Springfield, IL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t97PSJ1Lzp8


This isn't a bad copy of a pro shot concert, is it? The camera work looks better than amateur stuff.

That particular video seems to be someone in the audience with a camcorder aiming their camera at one of the big jumbo video screens. So you're seeing a pro-shot video feed, but through the lens of a camcorder, and without in-line audio.

Back in the 90s with the limited quality of SD consumer-grade camcorders, shooting a show this way may have been better than shooting directly on stage. The main problem with old videos like this that I've seen is that often they aren't actually able to stabilize the camera when shooting the jumbo video screen, so you end up with a crooked picture that isn't fully zoomed in.

My favorite inexplicable video like this is one I remember for eons ago where someone shot one of George Harrison's 1991 Japan shows from the audience, but zoomed the camera in and out to the beat of the songs. Unwatchable.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Emdeeh on May 26, 2021, 10:47:59 AM
I heard back from Billy. He checked with some other folks who would know what Carl was playing, and they couldn't identify the guitar. So Billy thinks it might be an independent luthier's work.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on May 27, 2021, 02:16:06 AM
I heard back from Billy. He checked with some other folks who would know what Carl was playing, and they couldn't identify the guitar. So Billy thinks it might be an independent luthier's work.


Neat, thank you!
Carl must've been quite fond of this guitar since he used it regularly.
Billy should come over here, he certainly could add a lot  :)






That particular video seems to be someone in the audience with a camcorder aiming their camera at one of the big jumbo video screens. So you're seeing a pro-shot video feed, but through the lens of a camcorder, and without in-line audio.




I guess you're right. I should've thought of that. IIRC we had the same question about the '75 Seattle show a couple of years back (although I don't remember if we ever came to a conclusion on that one).


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: HeyJude on May 28, 2021, 07:27:49 AM

I guess you're right. I should've thought of that. IIRC we had the same question about the '75 Seattle show a couple of years back (although I don't remember if we ever came to a conclusion on that one).

The Seattle '75 show is shot from the audience, essentially functioning the way camcorder videos in later years do: Single angle from the audience, with off-line sound.

The likelihood of a simple fan walking into the venue in December 1975 with a videotape rig is pretty low; there wouldn't have been any small camcorder-type equipment to bring in. It had to have been at least somewhat cumbersome. It's clearly shot on a tripod or some similar device.

I've always guessed that Seattle '75 video was shot by some sort of press/news crew, either for a local station or freelance or something like that. There are a number of videos of BB shows, especially the 80s and later like this; where the local news was allowed in to shoot video, but they were not given any sort of pro video or audio feed, so they just shoot it with their own cameras from the audience with ambient concert sound. Typically a news crew would just shoot a few minutes of footage or capture b-roll from throughout the show. The unique aspect of the Seattle '75 show is that it's the entire show uncut (more or less; it's been a million years since I watched most of it).


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 28, 2021, 09:01:10 AM
I heard back from Billy. He checked with some other folks who would know what Carl was playing, and they couldn't identify the guitar. So Billy thinks it might be an independent luthier's work.

That's what I was thinking all along, although what made it more confusing was when the possibility of it being a Carvin was raised by Billy. Carvin was essentially a custom-build company where instead of shipping thousands of their guitars to retailers, they would have buyers select all the features they wanted on a guitar from the neck to body to pickups and colors and sell direct to the buyers. And it was essentially a custom build, even though they used templates for the various components and base models.

So my thought was it *could* be a Carvin where Carl chose all the features, yet no other Carvins I've seen have the same body shape and cut as Carl's guitar, even though some Carvin designs have a similar headstock.

And it goes back to the "Hamburguitar" which George Harrison was first seen playing in Anthology and those reunion videos, had I not seen a story in Vintage Guitar magazine about Bernie Hamburger and his custom built guitars, I would have been guessing along with many at that time what exactly George was playing. With a custom build, no one outside the builder and the customer and their inner circles would guess who did the work unless it got mentioned in an interview or if the builder was more well-known in general...like Rick Turner who did Lindsey Buckingham's unique, primary guitar back in the 70's, or even Brian May's handbuilt "Red" guitar which he and his dad built from scratch. They're such unique designs, unless you know who built them, you don't know!  :)

Maybe/hopefully some more info will come out on Carl's white guitar from the 90's. It's certainly an interesting instrument.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: WillJC on May 29, 2021, 04:27:25 PM
New gear question: Is it documented through photos or otherwise when the group first adopted the Minimoog as their synth of choice? Reason I ask is there's footage of Daryl Dragon at the Crystal Palace Bowl in June '72 using an ARP 2600, and I'm wondering if that's the one they may have taken to Holland to use in the studio. (Tracksheets do always refer to 'Moog', but so do they consistently use 'Mellotron' in place of Chamberlin, so that's not necessarily reliable)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on May 30, 2021, 10:29:41 AM
New gear question: Is it documented through photos or otherwise when the group first adopted the Minimoog as their synth of choice? Reason I ask is there's footage of Daryl Dragon at the Crystal Palace Bowl in June '72 using an ARP 2600, and I'm wondering if that's the one they may have taken to Holland to use in the studio. (Tracksheets do always refer to 'Moog', but so do they consistently use 'Mellotron' in place of Chamberlin, so that's not necessarily reliable)

Who's around that would remember this, I wonder


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: c-man on May 30, 2021, 12:24:33 PM
New gear question: Is it documented through photos or otherwise when the group first adopted the Minimoog as their synth of choice? Reason I ask is there's footage of Daryl Dragon at the Crystal Palace Bowl in June '72 using an ARP 2600, and I'm wondering if that's the one they may have taken to Holland to use in the studio. (Tracksheets do always refer to 'Moog', but so do they consistently use 'Mellotron' in place of Chamberlin, so that's not necessarily reliable)

Who's around that would remember this, I wonder

They were definitely using the MiniMoog by the mid-'70s Brother Studio era - beyond that, as far as nailing down a more specific date...there's a closeup of Dennis playing what I think is a MM on the inside spread of the In Concert double album...if so, then we can say at least by mid-late '73.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: tpesky on May 30, 2021, 06:25:51 PM
Another very short term Carl guitar selection was the black Les Paul he's seen playing at the Wembley 1980 show:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-beach-boys-performing-at-wembley-arena-london-1980-picture-id75612982?s=612x612)

I think that Les Paul got played more by Al and Eddie than Carl, even though it was technically owned by Carl.

Carl and Al both playing different guitars there then normal . Rare for 1980. Al owned a black Les Paul as well . He played it frequently and a few years ago it was missing /stolen . He was very upset about it and I don’t know if he ever got it back .


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: c-man on May 30, 2021, 06:59:07 PM
Another very short term Carl guitar selection was the black Les Paul he's seen playing at the Wembley 1980 show:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-beach-boys-performing-at-wembley-arena-london-1980-picture-id75612982?s=612x612)

I think that Les Paul got played more by Al and Eddie than Carl, even though it was technically owned by Carl.

Carl and Al both playing different guitars there then normal . Rare for 1980. Al owned a black Les Paul as well . He played it frequently and a few years ago it was missing /stolen . He was very upset about it and I don’t know if he ever got it back .

Is it possible Al and Carl simply switched guitars with one another for whatever song they are doing in this shot? To purposely f**k with us all these years later?  :)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on May 31, 2021, 11:33:28 AM
I think the black Les Paul was just the one, and it got passed around.  I guess I do wonder who actually "owned" it if such a thing could even be traced.  Perhaps Al did consider it to be "his".


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: WillJC on May 31, 2021, 11:42:36 AM
New gear question: Is it documented through photos or otherwise when the group first adopted the Minimoog as their synth of choice? Reason I ask is there's footage of Daryl Dragon at the Crystal Palace Bowl in June '72 using an ARP 2600, and I'm wondering if that's the one they may have taken to Holland to use in the studio. (Tracksheets do always refer to 'Moog', but so do they consistently use 'Mellotron' in place of Chamberlin, so that's not necessarily reliable)

Who's around that would remember this, I wonder

They were definitely using the MiniMoog by the mid-'70s Brother Studio era - beyond that, as far as nailing down a more specific date...there's a closeup of Dennis playing what I think is a MM on the inside spread of the In Concert double album...if so, then we can say at least by mid-late '73.

I vaguely remember Al once saying something about getting a Minimoog after Holland, or maybe before Holland, but I don't know where and don't know when. It would be great to dig that up! He might've said it was after... I remember my reaction to it being something like, "Hmm, maybe he was supposed to say they got it before Holland, because they probably didn't lug a modular Moog to the Netherlands," but perhaps that ARP 2600 is what they used for the time being in the studio and then traded for the fall tour. I hope I did actually read that somewhere.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on May 31, 2021, 12:03:42 PM
New gear question: Is it documented through photos or otherwise when the group first adopted the Minimoog as their synth of choice? Reason I ask is there's footage of Daryl Dragon at the Crystal Palace Bowl in June '72 using an ARP 2600, and I'm wondering if that's the one they may have taken to Holland to use in the studio. (Tracksheets do always refer to 'Moog', but so do they consistently use 'Mellotron' in place of Chamberlin, so that's not necessarily reliable)

Who's around that would remember this, I wonder

They were definitely using the MiniMoog by the mid-'70s Brother Studio era - beyond that, as far as nailing down a more specific date...there's a closeup of Dennis playing what I think is a MM on the inside spread of the In Concert double album...if so, then we can say at least by mid-late '73.

I vaguely remember Al once saying something about getting a Minimoog after Holland, or maybe before Holland, but I don't know where and don't know when. It would be great to dig that up! He might've said it was after... I remember my reaction to it being something like, "Hmm, maybe he was supposed to say they got it before Holland, because they probably didn't lug a modular Moog to the Netherlands," but perhaps that ARP 2600 is what they used for the time being in the studio and then traded for the fall tour. I hope I did actually read that somewhere.

This scenario seems highly plausible. 


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on June 01, 2021, 12:28:44 AM
Re: Black Les Paul


In the interview on page 2 of this thread Carl mentions that he owns a black Les Paul.


BH: What guitars do you currently have in your collection?

CW: A sunburst Gibson Epiphone 12-string, a yellow Fender Stratocaster [named “Old Yeller”], a natural Gibson 335 with a Bigsby tailpiece, a red Epiphone 12-string, a white Fender Stratocaster, a black Les Paul, a sunburst Les Paul, a red Gibson 335, a tobacco sunburst Epiphone 12-string, an acoustic Martin Bicentennial D-76 [stolen from the Beach Boys' warehouse], a yellow Fender Telecaster, a blonde Fender Stratocaster, a red Baldwin 12-string, an acoustic Martin D-41, a jumbo Gibson J-200 and a Les Paul Jr.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on June 01, 2021, 10:01:58 AM
Re: Black Les Paul


In the interview on page 2 of this thread Carl mentions that he owns a black Les Paul.


BH: What guitars do you currently have in your collection?

CW: A sunburst Gibson Epiphone 12-string, a yellow Fender Stratocaster [named “Old Yeller”], a natural Gibson 335 with a Bigsby tailpiece, a red Epiphone 12-string, a white Fender Stratocaster, a black Les Paul, a sunburst Les Paul, a red Gibson 335, a tobacco sunburst Epiphone 12-string, an acoustic Martin Bicentennial D-76 [stolen from the Beach Boys' warehouse], a yellow Fender Telecaster, a blonde Fender Stratocaster, a red Baldwin 12-string, an acoustic Martin D-41, a jumbo Gibson J-200 and a Les Paul Jr.


Yeah, that was the source for me sort of thinking it technically was Carl's.  But Al seemed so attached to it too.  Maybe they got a matching pair or something?  Maybe another one for the Hinsche-meister.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Gear
Post by: Rocker on June 05, 2021, 03:20:18 PM
I wonder if Al was thinking of this guitar. Maybe it was painted black later or he just mis-remembered.


(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2608/4214367599_ca3112424f_z.jpg?zz=1)