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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: freedomaspirer on March 29, 2016, 11:33:20 AM



Title: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: freedomaspirer on March 29, 2016, 11:33:20 AM
http://www.amazon.com/I-Am-Brian-Wilson-Memoir/dp/0306823063/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1459276337&sr=1-3&keywords=brian+wilson

No promotion on Facebook or anything yet, they must have just slipped this one out.



Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered on March 29, 2016, 11:47:08 AM
It'd be hilarious if Mike and Brian's books were written exactly the same, but from the opposite perspective, with the exception of Brian dedicating a chapter solely to Be My Baby and Mike Love dedicating a chapter to Kokomo.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Juice Brohnston on March 29, 2016, 12:00:24 PM
"My life has been written about over and over again, and thatís mostly okay with me. Other people can talk about my life. Sometimes theyíll get it right and sometimes theyíll get it wrong. For me, when I think back across my own life, there are so many things that are painful. Sometimes I donít like discussing them. Sometimes I donít even like remembering them. But as I get older, the shape of that pain has changed. Sometimes memories come back to me when I least expect them. Maybe thatís the only way it works when youíve lived the life Iíve lived: starting a band with my brothers that was managed by my father, watching my father become difficult and then impossible, watching myself become difficult and then impossible, watching women I loved come and go, watching children come into the world, watching my brothers get older, watching them pass out of the world. Some of those things shaped me. Others scarred me. Sometimes it was hard to tell the difference. When I watched my father fly into a rage and take swings at me and my brothers, was that shaping or scarring? When we watched him grow frustrated with his day job and take solace in music, was that shaping or scarring? Those are all memories but I canít get to them all at once. Iíve had a whole lifetime to take them in. Now I have a whole book to put them out there."

So, does anyone know the process in which they hammered out this book? I can't see Brian, sitting for a couple of hours a day and waxing poetically about his life. I look forward to reading this, but I already bought and read one biography that wasn't real.  Oh ya and looking forward to some genius on Clown action ;D


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: southbay on March 29, 2016, 12:43:38 PM
Tis a shame we lost Jason Fine, his work with Brian on the Rolling Stone stuff was so good.  Ben Greenman, anyone?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: J.G. Dev on March 29, 2016, 12:47:30 PM
I thought Ray was writing this with Brian??


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: HeyJude on March 29, 2016, 12:49:23 PM
The Jason Fine "Rolling Stone" article on C50 from 2012 remains, along with the posts on this board from Howie Edelson, the definitive pieces of writing on C50. I always wished Fine could have gone back and extended his piece with the fallout from the aftermath of the tour. Based on Fine's articles, it sounded like a good choice.

Don't know about the new guy, but some article a little while back mentioned Ray Lawlor was helping Brian in some capacity as well (research?, organizing thoughts?), so that bodes well.

I feel like both "autobiographies" are probably going to be more like "authorized biographies" written in the first person.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on March 29, 2016, 02:05:09 PM
"My life has been written about over and over again, and thatís mostly okay with me. Other people can talk about my life. Sometimes theyíll get it right and sometimes theyíll get it wrong. For me, when I think back across my own life, there are so many things that are painful. Sometimes I donít like discussing them. Sometimes I donít even like remembering them. But as I get older, the shape of that pain has changed. Sometimes memories come back to me when I least expect them. Maybe thatís the only way it works when youíve lived the life Iíve lived: starting a band with my brothers that was managed by my father, watching my father become difficult and then impossible, watching myself become difficult and then impossible, watching women I loved come and go, watching children come into the world, watching my brothers get older, watching them pass out of the world. Some of those things shaped me. Others scarred me. Sometimes it was hard to tell the difference. When I watched my father fly into a rage and take swings at me and my brothers, was that shaping or scarring? When we watched him grow frustrated with his day job and take solace in music, was that shaping or scarring? Those are all memories but I canít get to them all at once. Iíve had a whole lifetime to take them in. Now I have a whole book to put them out there."

I wonder who wrote that ^ for Brian? I hope somebody tells him...


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Ragegasm, Coming Soon To A Dictionary Near You on March 29, 2016, 02:35:51 PM
"My life has been written about over and over again, and thatís mostly okay with me. Other people can talk about my life. Sometimes theyíll get it right and sometimes theyíll get it wrong. For me, when I think back across my own life, there are so many things that are painful. Sometimes I donít like discussing them. Sometimes I donít even like remembering them. But as I get older, the shape of that pain has changed. Sometimes memories come back to me when I least expect them. Maybe thatís the only way it works when youíve lived the life Iíve lived: starting a band with my brothers that was managed by my father, watching my father become difficult and then impossible, watching myself become difficult and then impossible, watching women I loved come and go, watching children come into the world, watching my brothers get older, watching them pass out of the world. Some of those things shaped me. Others scarred me. Sometimes it was hard to tell the difference. When I watched my father fly into a rage and take swings at me and my brothers, was that shaping or scarring? When we watched him grow frustrated with his day job and take solace in music, was that shaping or scarring? Those are all memories but I canít get to them all at once. Iíve had a whole lifetime to take them in. Now I have a whole book to put them out there."

I wonder who wrote that ^ for Brian? I hope somebody tells him...

Why do you always have to do that,


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: SMiLE Brian on March 29, 2016, 02:36:51 PM
Agreed ::)


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: HeyJude on March 29, 2016, 02:45:46 PM
"My life has been written about over and over again, and thatís mostly okay with me. Other people can talk about my life. Sometimes theyíll get it right and sometimes theyíll get it wrong. For me, when I think back across my own life, there are so many things that are painful. Sometimes I donít like discussing them. Sometimes I donít even like remembering them. But as I get older, the shape of that pain has changed. Sometimes memories come back to me when I least expect them. Maybe thatís the only way it works when youíve lived the life Iíve lived: starting a band with my brothers that was managed by my father, watching my father become difficult and then impossible, watching myself become difficult and then impossible, watching women I loved come and go, watching children come into the world, watching my brothers get older, watching them pass out of the world. Some of those things shaped me. Others scarred me. Sometimes it was hard to tell the difference. When I watched my father fly into a rage and take swings at me and my brothers, was that shaping or scarring? When we watched him grow frustrated with his day job and take solace in music, was that shaping or scarring? Those are all memories but I canít get to them all at once. Iíve had a whole lifetime to take them in. Now I have a whole book to put them out there."

I wonder who wrote that ^ for Brian? I hope somebody tells him...

I doubt Brian personally typed that. But so what? You do realize that autobiography "co-writers" actually do most of the writing? Often or usually all of it, in terms of the literal pen-to-paper (or typing)?

Also, people typically have a different "literary voice" than their speaking voice, even Brian. I don't speak exactly the same as I write.

Mike's Facebook posts, which I'm going to assume he does actually write, don't sound exactly the same as he does in interviews. It's his "literary voice" or "writer's voice." Whatever you want to call it.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on March 29, 2016, 04:35:29 PM
That sort of promotional blurb is usually written by someone hired by the publisher.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on March 29, 2016, 05:39:40 PM
"My life has been written about over and over again, and thatís mostly okay with me. Other people can talk about my life. Sometimes theyíll get it right and sometimes theyíll get it wrong. For me, when I think back across my own life, there are so many things that are painful. Sometimes I donít like discussing them. Sometimes I donít even like remembering them. But as I get older, the shape of that pain has changed. Sometimes memories come back to me when I least expect them. Maybe thatís the only way it works when youíve lived the life Iíve lived: starting a band with my brothers that was managed by my father, watching my father become difficult and then impossible, watching myself become difficult and then impossible, watching women I loved come and go, watching children come into the world, watching my brothers get older, watching them pass out of the world. Some of those things shaped me. Others scarred me. Sometimes it was hard to tell the difference. When I watched my father fly into a rage and take swings at me and my brothers, was that shaping or scarring? When we watched him grow frustrated with his day job and take solace in music, was that shaping or scarring? Those are all memories but I canít get to them all at once. Iíve had a whole lifetime to take them in. Now I have a whole book to put them out there."
[/quot

I wonder who wrote that ^ for Brian? I hope somebody tells him...

 ::) ::) What an incredibly dumb statement. But we're all assured that myKe luHv wrote every word in his, huh? Get real.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Empire Of Love on March 29, 2016, 11:12:27 PM
"My life has been written about over and over again, and thatís mostly okay with me. Other people can talk about my life. Sometimes theyíll get it right and sometimes theyíll get it wrong. For me, when I think back across my own life, there are so many things that are painful. Sometimes I donít like discussing them. Sometimes I donít even like remembering them. But as I get older, the shape of that pain has changed. Sometimes memories come back to me when I least expect them. Maybe thatís the only way it works when youíve lived the life Iíve lived: starting a band with my brothers that was managed by my father, watching my father become difficult and then impossible, watching myself become difficult and then impossible, watching women I loved come and go, watching children come into the world, watching my brothers get older, watching them pass out of the world. Some of those things shaped me. Others scarred me. Sometimes it was hard to tell the difference. When I watched my father fly into a rage and take swings at me and my brothers, was that shaping or scarring? When we watched him grow frustrated with his day job and take solace in music, was that shaping or scarring? Those are all memories but I canít get to them all at once. Iíve had a whole lifetime to take them in. Now I have a whole book to put them out there."

I wonder who wrote that ^ for Brian? I hope somebody tells him...

This is awfully ironic coming from a guy whose posts generally read as if they are written at the behest of Mike Love.

EoL


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Myra on March 30, 2016, 05:12:01 AM
Another Brian book coming out?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Lee Marshall on March 30, 2016, 05:51:56 AM
Another Brian book coming out?

The difference?  Brian will actually participate in providing this book's content.  In fact he already has.  October 11th then...I will lift my ban on reading about 'the story'.  I just don't want to support [with even 1 dollar] those who I feel are but sad and negative forces in terms of my enjoyment of this continuing story and the unfolding successes acruing from it...especially the NEW music and the people who "make it Charlie".

This musical body of work is to be celebrated and enjoyed.  The accomplishments ... to be admired.  The reality of creativity is inspirational each and every time.  To bitch and moan and complain about it constantly...or to wallow in the glory of past untoward deeds...does NOT add to the true fact that this sojourn is still an amazing voyage not a 'festival' for the self-made pitiful remnants of the well known bumps along the path.  It's about survival and rising UP...and not those selfish 'downers' who only seem to care about their wallets.

It's about who I choose to support with my time, my money and my RESPECT. :hat


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: HeyJude on March 30, 2016, 07:17:07 AM
To be honest, the best I hope for with these sorts of books is, if we're REALLY lucky, is an interesting or charming or humorous take with some fun anecdotes, maybe some more info on the early years that most books don't cover, and maybe some filling-in of episodes that aren't well-documented in any detail (e.g. C50).

Really, the stunning, revelatory books are going to be the Mark Lewisohn-type of books, things like James Murphy's "Becoming the Beach Boys." Well-written and deeply-researched books that delve into the nuts and bolts of the story, both the nerdy, technical side of things and the inter-personal stuff.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Rocker on March 30, 2016, 08:58:04 AM
"My life has been written about over and over again, and thatís mostly okay with me. Other people can talk about my life. Sometimes theyíll get it right and sometimes theyíll get it wrong. For me, when I think back across my own life, there are so many things that are painful. Sometimes I donít like discussing them. Sometimes I donít even like remembering them. But as I get older, the shape of that pain has changed. Sometimes memories come back to me when I least expect them. Maybe thatís the only way it works when youíve lived the life Iíve lived: starting a band with my brothers that was managed by my father, watching my father become difficult and then impossible, watching myself become difficult and then impossible, watching women I loved come and go, watching children come into the world, watching my brothers get older, watching them pass out of the world. Some of those things shaped me. Others scarred me. Sometimes it was hard to tell the difference. When I watched my father fly into a rage and take swings at me and my brothers, was that shaping or scarring? When we watched him grow frustrated with his day job and take solace in music, was that shaping or scarring? Those are all memories but I canít get to them all at once. Iíve had a whole lifetime to take them in. Now I have a whole book to put them out there."


I wonder who wrote that ^ for Brian? I hope somebody tells him...



Interesting statement. When I read it, I was surprised how much it sounded like Brian to my ears (...eyes?). Only of course stretched out or filled up by his co-author.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Quincy on March 30, 2016, 09:20:52 AM
"My life has been written about over and over again, and thatís mostly okay with me. Other people can talk about my life. Sometimes theyíll get it right and sometimes theyíll get it wrong. For me, when I think back across my own life, there are so many things that are painful. Sometimes I donít like discussing them. Sometimes I donít even like remembering them. But as I get older, the shape of that pain has changed. Sometimes memories come back to me when I least expect them. Maybe thatís the only way it works when youíve lived the life Iíve lived: starting a band with my brothers that was managed by my father, watching my father become difficult and then impossible, watching myself become difficult and then impossible, watching women I loved come and go, watching children come into the world, watching my brothers get older, watching them pass out of the world. Some of those things shaped me. Others scarred me. Sometimes it was hard to tell the difference. When I watched my father fly into a rage and take swings at me and my brothers, was that shaping or scarring? When we watched him grow frustrated with his day job and take solace in music, was that shaping or scarring? Those are all memories but I canít get to them all at once. Iíve had a whole lifetime to take them in. Now I have a whole book to put them out there."

I wonder who wrote that ^ for Brian? I hope somebody tells him...
Once a Troll always a Troll...


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Jim V. on March 30, 2016, 09:40:43 AM
I think it'd be interesting if SJS elaborated on what he thinks of modern-day Brian Wilson. It seems that he thinks he is incapable of making new music, writing his own thoughts or making his own decisions. He seems to think of him as something close to a brain-damaged vegetable. And instead of hinting at it with snark, I think he should own up to what he's been saying lately.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Marty Castillo on March 30, 2016, 12:52:16 PM
To be honest, the best I hope for with these sorts of books is, if we're REALLY lucky, is an interesting or charming or humorous take with some fun anecdotes, maybe some more info on the early years that most books don't cover, and maybe some filling-in of episodes that aren't well-documented in any detail (e.g. C50).

This is spot on. I'm hoping for the best from both books and this is probably best case scenario.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: GhostyTMRS on March 30, 2016, 08:00:56 PM
Ben Greenman? Last I heard Ray was doing the book with Brian. There was also talk of this being an oral biography of Brian last year, but the word "memoir" indicates that idea was ditched. As others have stated, I don't expect much from either Mike or Brian's books, but it seems odd that it's gone through three ghost writers by now.

And before anyone has a cow, nearly all celeb bios are ghostwritten. It's not a slam on either Brian or Mike. I would expect them to use ghostwriters.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: urbanite on March 31, 2016, 10:10:09 AM
It's a bad idea to release BW's book close in time to the release of Mike Love's book.  The average book buyer is not going to buy two Beach Boys books within the space of a few months.  Wait until 2017.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Rocker on March 31, 2016, 10:12:53 AM
It's a bad idea to release BW's book close in time to the release of Mike Love's book.  The average book buyer is not going to buy two Beach Boys books within the space of a few months.  Wait until 2017.


I don't think the average book buyer is going to buy Mike Love's book. So I guess there's no problem from Brian's publisher's side


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: urbanite on March 31, 2016, 11:54:16 AM
I don't know how Mike's book will fare, but there is likely to be a substantial amount of publicity attached to it.  Especially if Mike writes some salacious stuff.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Lee Marshall on March 31, 2016, 12:43:16 PM
Hopefully there is no fear, with Mike's 'book' being released to the public first, that Brian will feel like he was beaten to the punch and, as a result, abandon the book idea...leaving it lying on some distant shelf somewhere for 40 + years claiming that he burned the manuscript. ;)



Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on March 31, 2016, 02:24:46 PM
It's a bad idea to release BW's book close in time to the release of Mike Love's book.  The average book buyer is not going to buy two Beach Boys books within the space of a few months.  Wait until 2017.

I don't think the average book buyer is going to buy Mike Love's book. So I guess there's no problem from Brian's publisher's side

The average book buyer isn't going to buy either of them. The likes of you and I will, and anyone with an interest in pop history. Joe Q. Public ? Nope.

Hopefully there is no fear, with Mike's 'book' being released to the public first, that Brian will feel like he was beaten to the punch and, as a result, abandon the book idea...leaving it lying on some distant shelf somewhere for 40 + years claiming that he burned the manuscript. ;)

If the original gameplan had played out, Brian's book would have been out for something like five months now.

Ben Greenman? Last I heard Ray was doing the book with Brian. There was also talk of this being an oral biography of Brian last year, but the word "memoir" indicates that idea was ditched.

Brian's book was always going to be an autobiography, so nothing's changed there. As for Ray writing it. I'm pretty sure that was a misunderstanding in the one interview where it was mentioned. As I recall, Ray was some amused by that.  :)


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: HeyJude on March 31, 2016, 03:12:57 PM
Strange things can happen with "autobiographies." I remember reading that Billy Joel had signed to do one, and then awhile later it was canceled.

Then a few months back I was reading through an okay-ish, breezy bio on Joel, and later discovered it was done by the author that had started to work on the "autobiography" with Joel. I guess the guy took the interviews he had done and worked it into a biography, which explains how the book was kind of inconsequential and lacking in detail, but with strangely *a lot* of new, direct interview quotes with Joel. If the "autobiography" was going to be as light and non-substantive as this book turned out to be, it's a good thing they canceled it I guess.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: bachelorofbullets on March 31, 2016, 04:28:08 PM
"My life has been written about over and over again, and thatís mostly okay with me. Other people can talk about my life. Sometimes theyíll get it right and sometimes theyíll get it wrong. For me, when I think back across my own life, there are so many things that are painful. Sometimes I donít like discussing them. Sometimes I donít even like remembering them. But as I get older, the shape of that pain has changed. Sometimes memories come back to me when I least expect them. Maybe thatís the only way it works when youíve lived the life Iíve lived: starting a band with my brothers that was managed by my father, watching my father become difficult and then impossible, watching myself become difficult and then impossible, watching women I loved come and go, watching children come into the world, watching my brothers get older, watching them pass out of the world. Some of those things shaped me. Others scarred me. Sometimes it was hard to tell the difference. When I watched my father fly into a rage and take swings at me and my brothers, was that shaping or scarring? When we watched him grow frustrated with his day job and take solace in music, was that shaping or scarring? Those are all memories but I canít get to them all at once. Iíve had a whole lifetime to take them in. Now I have a whole book to put them out there."

So, does anyone know the process in which they hammered out this book? I can't see Brian, sitting for a couple of hours a day and waxing poetically about his life. I look forward to reading this, but I already bought and read one biography that wasn't real.  Oh ya and looking forward to some genius on Clown action ;D

Brian was able to to a good job with Love and Mercy, no reason why he can't do the same with this.  I'm looking forward to it.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on April 01, 2016, 12:43:28 AM
"My life has been written about over and over again, and thatís mostly okay with me. Other people can talk about my life. Sometimes theyíll get it right and sometimes theyíll get it wrong. For me, when I think back across my own life, there are so many things that are painful. Sometimes I donít like discussing them. Sometimes I donít even like remembering them. But as I get older, the shape of that pain has changed. Sometimes memories come back to me when I least expect them. Maybe thatís the only way it works when youíve lived the life Iíve lived: starting a band with my brothers that was managed by my father, watching my father become difficult and then impossible, watching myself become difficult and then impossible, watching women I loved come and go, watching children come into the world, watching my brothers get older, watching them pass out of the world. Some of those things shaped me. Others scarred me. Sometimes it was hard to tell the difference. When I watched my father fly into a rage and take swings at me and my brothers, was that shaping or scarring? When we watched him grow frustrated with his day job and take solace in music, was that shaping or scarring? Those are all memories but I canít get to them all at once. Iíve had a whole lifetime to take them in. Now I have a whole book to put them out there."

So, does anyone know the process in which they hammered out this book? I can't see Brian, sitting for a couple of hours a day and waxing poetically about his life. I look forward to reading this, but I already bought and read one biography that wasn't real.  Oh ya and looking forward to some genius on Clown action ;D

Brian was able to to a good job with Love and Mercy
, no reason why he can't do the same with this.  I'm looking forward to it.

The song... the movie... ? Confused.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: bachelorofbullets on April 01, 2016, 07:31:44 AM
The movie of course.  Meaning he got through it, didn't cancel/bail out/freak out or do anything to derail it.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Lonely Summer on April 01, 2016, 08:50:16 PM
I'm not expecting anything great from Brian's book. I hope he is more involved in it than he was the first one, but won't be surprised if he's not. In fact, I won't be surprised if this book comes off like WIBN take 2, with Melinda as the savior instead of Landy.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on April 02, 2016, 06:35:46 AM
...I won't be surprised if this book comes off like WIBN take 2, with Melinda as the savior instead of Landy.

I'm EXPECTING that.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Gerry on April 02, 2016, 07:24:39 AM
Sheriff, I think it's time you turned in your badge.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Lee Marshall on April 02, 2016, 07:47:36 AM
Sheriff, I think it's time you turned in your badge.

 :lol  Well...at the very least he needs to wipe the drool off of it.  These 'guys' who ignorantly label Melinda as the new Landy are such dinks.  There's an old saying.  It goes "Behind every successful man stands a great woman."  THAT'S what's happened here.  And it has for a long, LONG time.  Look at the strides.  Look at the successes.

Look to make sure there's water in the pool before you dive.  Ray and Deb aren't lying.  The insiders aren't guessing.  They KNOW.  Obviously Sheriff and Lonely know s.f.a.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 02, 2016, 08:24:35 AM
I suppose it could be similar in that it's crediting someone with helping him get back on his feet and live in the world but this time it would be true.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: SMiLE Brian on April 02, 2016, 08:40:08 AM
Exactly! Not the drivel the sheriff is hinting at.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Debbie KL on April 02, 2016, 09:21:18 AM
Sheriff, I think it's time you turned in your badge.

 :lol  Well...at the very least he needs to wipe the drool off of it.  These 'guys' who ignorantly label Melinda as the new Landy are such dinks.  There's an old saying.  It goes "Behind every successful man stands a great woman."  THAT'S what's happened here.  And it has for a long, LONG time.  Look at the strides.  Look at the successes.

Look to make sure there's water in the pool before you dive.  Ray and Deb aren't lying.  The insiders aren't guessing.  They KNOW.  Obviously Sheriff and Lonely know s.f.a.

Thanks, Lee, for taking care of this latest absurd comment by this consistently anti-Brian, anti-Melinda, humorless poster.  It's become a complete bore, I must say.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Empire Of Love on April 02, 2016, 10:11:15 AM
Sheriff, I think it's time you turned in your badge.

 :lol  Well...at the very least he needs to wipe the drool off of it.  These 'guys' who ignorantly label Melinda as the new Landy are such dinks.  There's an old saying.  It goes "Behind every successful man stands a great woman."  THAT'S what's happened here.  And it has for a long, LONG time.  Look at the strides.  Look at the successes.

Look to make sure there's water in the pool before you dive.  Ray and Deb aren't lying.  The insiders aren't guessing.  They KNOW.  Obviously Sheriff and Lonely know s.f.a.

Thanks, Lee, for taking care of this latest absurd comment by this consistently anti-Brian, anti-Melinda, humorless poster.  It's become a complete bore, I must say.

In reading yet another quip from SJS something ironic occurred to me: the origin of anti-Mike Love sentiment and the origin of the anti-Brian Wilson sentiment share one and the same source, namely the very words of Mike Love himself.  The difference is that the anti-Brian sentiment is largely hearsay* (unsupported comments made by Mike about Brian and Melinda that are then parroted by his followers) while the anti-Mike sentiment goes back the man himself (Mike says things that people can analyze and criticize for themselves).

*I say "largely hearsay" because some of it is true.  Brian did do drugs, he does suffer from mental illness, Melinda does help him.  These things are all factual.  But the spin, that Brian is being controlled by Melinda in a Landy-like fashion and that he is still being over-medicated as he was under Landy, is based on statements from Mike which these guys parrot without verification, PMs from a biased AGD trying to persuade some to the contrary not withstanding (who I suspect knows less about Brian's current state than he thinks).

All in all I find it humorous, more than anything, that SJS (and the others, they know who they are) has built his online persona (at least in this board) on hearsay, and then makes claims boldly and frequently in the hopes they will be taken for fact.  Until he provides evidence to counter the claims of the insiders on this board (Ray, for example, assuming he bothers to post here anymore) I hope that the rest of you will take the comments for what they are worth, nothing.

EoL


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Quincy on April 02, 2016, 10:16:59 AM
Sheriff, I think it's time you turned in your badge.

 :lol  Well...at the very least he needs to wipe the drool off of it.  These 'guys' who ignorantly label Melinda as the new Landy are such dinks.  There's an old saying.  It goes "Behind every successful man stands a great woman."  THAT'S what's happened here.  And it has for a long, LONG time.  Look at the strides.  Look at the successes.

Look to make sure there's water in the pool before you dive.  Ray and Deb aren't lying.  The insiders aren't guessing.  They KNOW.  Obviously Sheriff and Lonely know s.f.a.

Thanks, Lee, for taking care of this latest absurd comment by this consistently anti-Brian, anti-Melinda, humorless poster.  It's become a complete bore, I must say.
What she just said ;)


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: SMiLE Brian on April 02, 2016, 10:19:55 AM
SS board just shot the sheriff! 8)


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered on April 02, 2016, 10:21:33 AM
SS board just shot the sheriff! 8)
Why don't he leave us alone?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: SMiLE Brian on April 02, 2016, 10:24:29 AM
 :lol loving your Bruce quote in your profile as well! :lol


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered on April 02, 2016, 10:27:46 AM
:lol loving your Bruce quote in your profile as well! :lol
Thanks, I only choose the bestô and most Historical© Johnston quotes.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: the captain on April 02, 2016, 10:42:00 AM
SJS is a nice guy and a big Beach Boys fan. There's no reason to pile on the insults every time he (or anyone else) comments in a way people don't like, even if some of his (or anyone else's) opinions or assumptions may be wrong. You're tired of his positions? Fine, I'm sure he's tired of yours. Somewhere there is actual truth, and it's most likely few to none of us know that anyway.

OK, back to the General Music and Sandbox forums for me.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on April 02, 2016, 10:56:16 AM
Sheriff, I think it's time you turned in your badge.

 :lol  Well...at the very least he needs to wipe the drool off of it.  These 'guys' who ignorantly label Melinda as the new Landy are such dinks.  There's an old saying.  It goes "Behind every successful man stands a great woman."  THAT'S what's happened here.  And it has for a long, LONG time.  Look at the strides.  Look at the successes.

Look to make sure there's water in the pool before you dive.  Ray and Deb aren't lying.  The insiders aren't guessing.  They KNOW.  Obviously Sheriff and Lonely know s.f.a.

Exactly.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: The Cincinnati Kid on April 02, 2016, 12:28:27 PM
SJS is a nice guy and a big Beach Boys fan. There's no reason to pile on the insults every time he (or anyone else) comments in a way people don't like, even if some of his (or anyone else's) opinions or assumptions may be wrong. You're tired of his positions? Fine, I'm sure he's tired of yours. Somewhere there is actual truth, and it's most likely few to none of us know that anyway.

OK, back to the General Music and Sandbox forums for me.

Agreed.  It's really a bore reading the same people whine about the posts he and other people make.  Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?  ::) (Before someone accuses me of accusing Melinda of what I just said, settle down because I'm not)


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on April 02, 2016, 12:32:48 PM
Quote
Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?
Can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't be able to stay as mod if that were the case.  It's one of the reasons why I couldn't be on any of the Scott Weiland groups, having known what was really going on with him. I'm still here, and not going anywhere (health permitting)


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: The Cincinnati Kid on April 02, 2016, 12:38:41 PM
Quote
Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?
Can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't be able to stay as mod if that were the case.  It's one of the reasons why I couldn't be on any of the Scott Weiland groups, having known what was really going on with him. I'm still here, and not going anywhere (health permitting)

Well we're all glad to have you here, Billy!  ;D

It just bugs me when people say someone is wrong because an insider said differently.  If it really was like a WIBN 2, they're not going to tell us. 


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Empire Of Love on April 02, 2016, 12:44:09 PM
SJS is a nice guy and a big Beach Boys fan. There's no reason to pile on the insults every time he (or anyone else) comments in a way people don't like, even if some of his (or anyone else's) opinions or assumptions may be wrong. You're tired of his positions? Fine, I'm sure he's tired of yours. Somewhere there is actual truth, and it's most likely few to none of us know that anyway.

OK, back to the General Music and Sandbox forums for me.

Agreed.  It's really a bore reading the same people whine about the posts he and other people make.  Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?  ::) (Before someone accuses me of accusing Melinda of what I just said, settle down because I'm not)

You may not being saying this *now*, but you have said it in the past, and more than once.  For example, when Lonely Summer posted the following:

"I think Mike probably feels that Melinda, and Brian's "handlers", have limited his access to Brian in recent years - specifically his request to be alone in a room with his cousin to write songs. In that respect, it's no different than the Landy years. But the rest of you probably have a different take on this situation. Probably."

You replied by saying:

"I think there's definitely some truth to this.  Mike isn't the only one who has had this opinion."

Here is the link, in case you have forgotten:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22013.msg524114.html#msg524114

You've also stated that you had a conversation with an insider who persuaded you that Brian is presently controlled by Melinda in a Landy-esque way.  So please cut the crap and at least have the decency to admit your position, even SJS does that.

EoL



Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: The Cincinnati Kid on April 02, 2016, 12:51:58 PM
SJS is a nice guy and a big Beach Boys fan. There's no reason to pile on the insults every time he (or anyone else) comments in a way people don't like, even if some of his (or anyone else's) opinions or assumptions may be wrong. You're tired of his positions? Fine, I'm sure he's tired of yours. Somewhere there is actual truth, and it's most likely few to none of us know that anyway.

OK, back to the General Music and Sandbox forums for me.

Agreed.  It's really a bore reading the same people whine about the posts he and other people make.  Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?  ::) (Before someone accuses me of accusing Melinda of what I just said, settle down because I'm not)

You may not being saying this *now*, but you have said it in the past, and more than once.  For example, when Lonely Summer posted the following:

"I think Mike probably feels that Melinda, and Brian's "handlers", have limited his access to Brian in recent years - specifically his request to be alone in a room with his cousin to write songs. In that respect, it's no different than the Landy years. But the rest of you probably have a different take on this situation. Probably."

You replied by saying:

"I think there's definitely some truth to this.  Mike isn't the only one who has had this opinion."

Here is the link, in case you have forgotten:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22013.msg524114.html#msg524114

You've also stated that you had a conversation with an insider who persuaded you that Brian is presently controlled by Melinda in a Landy-esque way.  So please cut the crap and at least have the decency to admit your position, even SJS does that.

EoL



That last part isn't what I said at all.  So how about you cut the crap and quit trolling like you always do.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Empire Of Love on April 02, 2016, 01:01:14 PM
Quote
Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?
Can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't be able to stay as mod if that were the case.  It's one of the reasons why I couldn't be on any of the Scott Weiland groups, having known what was really going on with him. I'm still here, and not going anywhere (health permitting)

Well we're all glad to have you here, Billy!  ;D

It just bugs me when people say someone is wrong because an insider said differently.  If it really was like a WIBN 2, they're not going to tell us. 

You are too much kid.  So you think the super-secret, tell-no-one third-hand info you have is more reliable than Ray, Debbie, etc?  Good luck in life being that gullible.  Somehow you've come to think you have secret knowledge that no one else has.  But we all hear the stories, receive the PMs, the top secret info that we are to repeat to no one, etc.  The truth is, none of us outsiders have special knowledge.  The minute you think you do is the minute you should realize you've been had.

EoL


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: The Cincinnati Kid on April 02, 2016, 01:08:02 PM
Quote
Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?
Can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't be able to stay as mod if that were the case.  It's one of the reasons why I couldn't be on any of the Scott Weiland groups, having known what was really going on with him. I'm still here, and not going anywhere (health permitting)

Well we're all glad to have you here, Billy!  ;D

It just bugs me when people say someone is wrong because an insider said differently.  If it really was like a WIBN 2, they're not going to tell us. 

You are too much kid.  So you think the super-secret, tell-no-one third-hand info you have is more reliable than Ray, Debbie, etc?  Good luck in life being that gullible.  Somehow you've come to think you have secret knowledge that no one else has.  But we all hear the stories, receive the PMs, the top secret info that we are to repeat to no one, etc.  The truth is, none of us outsiders have special knowledge.  The minute you think you do is the minute you should realize you've been had.

EoL

All I'm going to say is you'd feel a bit embarrassed if you know who told me.  I'm not even sure why you posting here to be honest.  The vast majority of your posts the past couple years is just you arguing with people.  Before that, you made some really nice posts and I enjoyed listening to the music you made.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Empire Of Love on April 02, 2016, 01:08:16 PM
SJS is a nice guy and a big Beach Boys fan. There's no reason to pile on the insults every time he (or anyone else) comments in a way people don't like, even if some of his (or anyone else's) opinions or assumptions may be wrong. You're tired of his positions? Fine, I'm sure he's tired of yours. Somewhere there is actual truth, and it's most likely few to none of us know that anyway.

OK, back to the General Music and Sandbox forums for me.

Agreed.  It's really a bore reading the same people whine about the posts he and other people make.  Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?  ::) (Before someone accuses me of accusing Melinda of what I just said, settle down because I'm not)

You may not being saying this *now*, but you have said it in the past, and more than once.  For example, when Lonely Summer posted the following:

"I think Mike probably feels that Melinda, and Brian's "handlers", have limited his access to Brian in recent years - specifically his request to be alone in a room with his cousin to write songs. In that respect, it's no different than the Landy years. But the rest of you probably have a different take on this situation. Probably."

You replied by saying:

"I think there's definitely some truth to this.  Mike isn't the only one who has had this opinion."

Here is the link, in case you have forgotten:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22013.msg524114.html#msg524114

You've also stated that you had a conversation with an insider who persuaded you that Brian is presently controlled by Melinda in a Landy-esque way.  So please cut the crap and at least have the decency to admit your position, even SJS does that.

EoL



That last part isn't what I said at all.  So how about you cut the crap and quit trolling like you always do.

You mean, just like you weren't slamming Melinda above, until it was shown that you were?

And, pray tell what did you say?  That someone on the board PMd you?  Are you believing things that were stated by people who are not insiders?  I'd like to here your explanation of this one.

Also, calling bullsh!t is not trolling, and even if it is that doesn't change the fact that it is bullsh!t.

EoL


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: The Cincinnati Kid on April 02, 2016, 01:10:15 PM
SJS is a nice guy and a big Beach Boys fan. There's no reason to pile on the insults every time he (or anyone else) comments in a way people don't like, even if some of his (or anyone else's) opinions or assumptions may be wrong. You're tired of his positions? Fine, I'm sure he's tired of yours. Somewhere there is actual truth, and it's most likely few to none of us know that anyway.

OK, back to the General Music and Sandbox forums for me.

Agreed.  It's really a bore reading the same people whine about the posts he and other people make.  Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?  ::) (Before someone accuses me of accusing Melinda of what I just said, settle down because I'm not)

You may not being saying this *now*, but you have said it in the past, and more than once.  For example, when Lonely Summer posted the following:

"I think Mike probably feels that Melinda, and Brian's "handlers", have limited his access to Brian in recent years - specifically his request to be alone in a room with his cousin to write songs. In that respect, it's no different than the Landy years. But the rest of you probably have a different take on this situation. Probably."

You replied by saying:

"I think there's definitely some truth to this.  Mike isn't the only one who has had this opinion."

Here is the link, in case you have forgotten:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22013.msg524114.html#msg524114

You've also stated that you had a conversation with an insider who persuaded you that Brian is presently controlled by Melinda in a Landy-esque way.  So please cut the crap and at least have the decency to admit your position, even SJS does that.

EoL



That last part isn't what I said at all.  So how about you cut the crap and quit trolling like you always do.

You mean, just like you weren't slamming Melinda above, until it was shown that you were?

And, pray tell what did you say?  That someone on the board PMd you?  Are you believing things that were stated by people who are not insiders?  I'd like to here your explanation of this one.

Also, calling bullsh!t is not trolling, and even if it is that doesn't change the fact that it is bullsh!t.

EoL

Again, you're completely missing the point of my post because you want to argue and troll. 


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Pretty Funky on April 02, 2016, 02:03:34 PM
Question and answer from the locked Rocky threads.

How are we SS message board members now supposed to spend our mornings, afternoons, and evenings??

Arguing of course!


 ::)


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered on April 02, 2016, 02:27:42 PM
Question and answer from the locked Rocky threads.

How are we SS message board members now supposed to spend our mornings, afternoons, and evenings??

Arguing of course!


 ::)


It's the SS way: an argument a day keeps new users away!


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Debbie KL on April 02, 2016, 03:24:42 PM
SJS is a nice guy and a big Beach Boys fan. There's no reason to pile on the insults every time he (or anyone else) comments in a way people don't like, even if some of his (or anyone else's) opinions or assumptions may be wrong. You're tired of his positions? Fine, I'm sure he's tired of yours. Somewhere there is actual truth, and it's most likely few to none of us know that anyway.

OK, back to the General Music and Sandbox forums for me.

Agreed.  It's really a bore reading the same people whine about the posts he and other people make.  Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?  ::) (Before someone accuses me of accusing Melinda of what I just said, settle down because I'm not)

Okay, since I've been mentioned here in previous posts, please explain to me why I, or anyone else named as an "insider," would lie about Melinda "not acting aboveboard."  Why would we sit back and allow Brian to be mistreated in any way and say nothing?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 02, 2016, 03:25:54 PM
There's a real Yoko kind of sexism to this stuff about Melinda. It grates.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered on April 02, 2016, 03:34:45 PM
There's a real Yoko kind of sexism to this stuff about Melinda. It grates.

Agreed, Melinda has been a positive influence on Brian's life, the suspicion against her is baseless.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: SMiLE Brian on April 02, 2016, 03:38:57 PM
Melinda is dragged through the mud too much around here. BW is his own man with a wonderful wife supporting him.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered on April 02, 2016, 04:07:42 PM
Melinda is dragged through the mud too much around here. BW is his own man with a wonderful wife supporting him.
Indeed, everyone needs someone to support them from time to time, especially someone like Brian.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: AndrewHickey on April 03, 2016, 01:34:29 AM
There's a real Yoko kind of sexism to this stuff about Melinda. It grates.

Yep. Much like with Yoko, it's a way of making sure you can keep a perfect image of a male rock star, by blaming anything you don't like about his decisions on his wife.
Those who know Brian say he's happy with her, and that really is all that matters.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Rocker on April 03, 2016, 02:22:08 AM
There's a real Yoko kind of sexism to this stuff about Melinda. It grates.

Yep. Much like with Yoko, it's a way of making sure you can keep a perfect image of a male rock star, by blaming anything you don't like about his decisions on his wife.
Those who know Brian say he's happy with her, and that really is all that matters.


I wonder what the people would say to John Fogerty whose wife has a similar big influence on him and his solo career of the last twenty years as Melinda. 


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: AndrewHickey on April 03, 2016, 06:25:48 AM
There's a real Yoko kind of sexism to this stuff about Melinda. It grates.

Yep. Much like with Yoko, it's a way of making sure you can keep a perfect image of a male rock star, by blaming anything you don't like about his decisions on his wife.
Those who know Brian say he's happy with her, and that really is all that matters.


I wonder what the people would say to John Fogerty whose wife has a similar big influence on him and his solo career of the last twenty years as Melinda. 

Almost certainly the same things. It happens with every rock star whose wife has an influence on their career -- Lennon, of course, but people said similar things about Linda McCartney (til she died and became an untouchable saint), Courtney Love... Zappa fans say similar things about his widow (again, I wonder if that'll stop now she's dead), Monkees fans said it about Davy Jones' wife in 2011...

Some of it might be true, even. I've never met Melinda, or Yoko, or any of the rest. Any one individual among them might be horrible. But there's a common pattern to these stories of controlling wives, and the more someone's image fits that pattern, the more likely I am to believe that the image is being distorted to fit...


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: the captain on April 03, 2016, 06:37:01 AM
Sorry for steering this conversation further afield, but I wonder what are the predominant narratives around male spouses with relatively high profiles among fans of female artists. Are they similarly negative? Differently negative? Positive? Off the top of my head I can't think of many. Wasn't Mariah Carey married to her manager? Or Shania Twain to producer Mutt Lange? Where those men seen as positive influences, or svengali, or meddling and controlling men?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on April 03, 2016, 10:00:29 AM
In Mariah Carey's case,  the answer is yes.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 03, 2016, 01:03:20 PM
Sorry for steering this conversation further afield, but I wonder what are the predominant narratives around male spouses with relatively high profiles among fans of female artists. Are they similarly negative? Differently negative? Positive? Off the top of my head I can't think of many. Wasn't Mariah Carey married to her manager? Or Shania Twain to producer Mutt Lange? Where those men seen as positive influences, or svengali, or meddling and controlling men?
I'll spend some time thinking about this, because it's an interesting question to me. There are significantly more famous husband/managers than wife/managers that I know of. I'm guessing that because husband/manager is not as uncommon, opinions are based more on the actual actions than on the fact of the role. I'd also guess that husbands who do not act as actual managers or producers are not considered to be 'interfering bitches' when they impact or express opinions regarding their wives' career choices as regularly as wives are. But I don't know and am curious enough to look into it. I'll be back.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Forrest Gump on April 03, 2016, 03:15:26 PM
Sorry for steering this conversation further afield, but I wonder what are the predominant narratives around male spouses with relatively high profiles among fans of female artists. Are they similarly negative? Differently negative? Positive? Off the top of my head I can't think of many. Wasn't Mariah Carey married to her manager? Or Shania Twain to producer Mutt Lange? Where those men seen as positive influences, or svengali, or meddling and controlling men?

 I'll be back.



Don't hurry........


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Debbie KL on April 03, 2016, 03:25:54 PM
SJS is a nice guy and a big Beach Boys fan. There's no reason to pile on the insults every time he (or anyone else) comments in a way people don't like, even if some of his (or anyone else's) opinions or assumptions may be wrong. You're tired of his positions? Fine, I'm sure he's tired of yours. Somewhere there is actual truth, and it's most likely few to none of us know that anyway.

OK, back to the General Music and Sandbox forums for me.

Agreed.  It's really a bore reading the same people whine about the posts he and other people make.  Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?  ::) (Before someone accuses me of accusing Melinda of what I just said, settle down because I'm not)

Okay, since I've been mentioned here in previous posts, please explain to me why I, or anyone else named as an "insider," would lie about Melinda "not acting aboveboard."  Why would we sit back and allow Brian to be mistreated in any way and say nothing?

Just to get back to my point since this thread has meandered into celebrity spouses, why has no one answered my question?  Where did the "Kid" go? 

My question was pretty direct.  Why would anyone who clearly has loved Brian for decades (like all of his friends posting here), cover up for someone who wasn't acting in his best interests? Those of us I know have nothing to lose by telling the truth.  So we do.  Any more questions?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: the captain on April 03, 2016, 03:46:41 PM
Sorry for steering this conversation further afield, but I wonder what are the predominant narratives around male spouses with relatively high profiles among fans of female artists. Are they similarly negative? Differently negative? Positive? Off the top of my head I can't think of many. Wasn't Mariah Carey married to her manager? Or Shania Twain to producer Mutt Lange? Where those men seen as positive influences, or svengali, or meddling and controlling men?

 I'll be back.



Don't hurry........

That's pretty rude.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Debbie KL on April 03, 2016, 03:57:27 PM
SJS is a nice guy and a big Beach Boys fan. There's no reason to pile on the insults every time he (or anyone else) comments in a way people don't like, even if some of his (or anyone else's) opinions or assumptions may be wrong. You're tired of his positions? Fine, I'm sure he's tired of yours. Somewhere there is actual truth, and it's most likely few to none of us know that anyway.

OK, back to the General Music and Sandbox forums for me.

Agreed.  It's really a bore reading the same people whine about the posts he and other people make.  Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?  ::) (Before someone accuses me of accusing Melinda of what I just said, settle down because I'm not)

Okay, since I've been mentioned here in previous posts, please explain to me why I, or anyone else named as an "insider," would lie about Melinda "not acting aboveboard."  Why would we sit back and allow Brian to be mistreated in any way and say nothing?

Just to get back to my point since this thread has meandered into celebrity spouses, why has no one answered my question?  Where did the "Kid" go? 

My question was pretty direct.  Why would anyone who clearly has loved Brian for decades (like all of his friends posting here), cover up for someone who wasn't acting in his best interests? Those of us I know have nothing to lose by telling the truth.  So we do.  Any more questions?

Again, although I appreciate all the attempts to move the thread away from my question, quite pertinent to the book, I think.  Why would we do such a thing?  Now what are you anti-Brian/anti-Melinda people going to do to change the subject?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 03, 2016, 04:15:35 PM
There's a real Yoko kind of sexism to this stuff about Melinda. It grates.

+1


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Autotune on April 03, 2016, 04:53:10 PM
This "how dare SJS" sentiment is puzzling. There's topics he comes back to, and he says things that annoy some people. But hey, I've just endured the Love-Vegas thread where 5 or 6 posters pile up crap comment upon crap comment on Mike Love. These crocodile tears on SJS seem laughable.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Debbie KL on April 03, 2016, 05:04:06 PM
Quote
Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?
Can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't be able to stay as mod if that were the case.  It's one of the reasons why I couldn't be on any of the Scott Weiland groups, having known what was really going on with him. I'm still here, and not going anywhere (health permitting)

Well we're all glad to have you here, Billy!  ;D

It just bugs me when people say someone is wrong because an insider said differently.  If it really was like a WIBN 2, they're not going to tell us. 

You are too much kid.  So you think the super-secret, tell-no-one third-hand info you have is more reliable than Ray, Debbie, etc?  Good luck in life being that gullible.  Somehow you've come to think you have secret knowledge that no one else has.  But we all hear the stories, receive the PMs, the top secret info that we are to repeat to no one, etc.  The truth is, none of us outsiders have special knowledge.  The minute you think you do is the minute you should realize you've been had.

EoL

All I'm going to say is you'd feel a bit embarrassed if you know who told me.  I'm not even sure why you posting here to be honest.  The vast majority of your posts the past couple years is just you arguing with people.  Before that, you made some really nice posts and I enjoyed listening to the music you made.

Okay.  So tell me who this incredible "insider" is who told you that Melinda isn't "above board."  I really want to know.  I'm fairly certain that Brian's attorneys and medical team aren't stupid enough to give inside info to some juvenile poster on a message board.  I feel equally certain that it wasn't Jean Sievers, Melinda or Brian.  So tell me who this person is who will make me feel so embarrassed to have questioned their inside info.

And the next person who makes some idiotic sexist comment about my "whining" or "crying" I'm going to want to hunt down like a dog.  I am not whimpering here.  I want a straight answer - for once - to all of the snide BS about Melinda, Brian's management and all of his real friends.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: mojoman3061 on April 05, 2016, 12:38:38 PM
From all I know about Melinda, she's the best thing that's happened for Brian in a LONG time.  From quotes in the Priore book, we have a lot to thank her for in regards to SMiLE being finished.  I have no idea what she's done to deserve being dragged through the mud.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Lee Marshall on April 05, 2016, 12:59:51 PM
Regardless of what 'others' chimed in with about "piling on"...and what fly attractant THAT was...the proof that 'these guys' don't know DICK is the fact that not one of them has an answer or response for ANY of your REAL and VALID questions Debbie.  Not a one.  And how many days has it been?  Why...I wonder?

Use your nose.

Yet even though 'they' have  N O T H I N G  sooner than later they'll pop up in another thread uttering the same old/same old even though THEY KNOW that it's nothing but a hay-wagon loaded with bullshit.  The less I read...the more I know. ::)


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Debbie KL on April 05, 2016, 01:29:06 PM
Regardless of what 'others' chimed in with about "piling on"...and what fly attractant THAT was...the proof that 'these guys' don't know DICK is the fact that not one of them has an answer or response for ANY of your REAL and VALID questions Debbie.  Not a one.  And how many days has it been?  Why...I wonder?

Use your nose.

Yet even though 'they' have  N O T H I N G  sooner than later they'll pop up in another thread uttering the same old/same old even though THEY KNOW that it's nothing but a hay-wagon loaded with bullshit.  The less I read...the more I know. ::)

Agreed.  They are masters of distraction when challenged, yet they deny that it's an "agenda" or orchestrated in any way.  It's certainly somebody's agenda.  I really want to know who this "insider" source is who will embarrass us so.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 05, 2016, 01:34:30 PM
I agree with all three posts immediately above. Without evidence, which has never been presented, I ascribe it to the usual 'manipulative controlling woman' trope.
It's obvious that BW would particularly benefit from a smart, sensitive, helpful, supportive partner who takes care of practical concerns for him. To interpret the fact he's found someone good for him as evidence that either she's controlling or he's controlled says more about the interpreters than the subjects to me.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Debbie KL on April 05, 2016, 02:09:09 PM
I agree with all three posts immediately above. Without evidence, which has never been presented, I ascribe it to the usual 'manipulative controlling woman' trope.
It's obvious that BW would particularly benefit from a smart, sensitive, helpful, supportive partner who takes care of practical concerns for him. To interpret the fact he's found someone good for him as evidence that either she's controlling or he's controlled says more about the interpreters than the subjects to me.

Except that Cincinnati Kid said that he has an "insider" source for this information that would "embarrass" those questioning him.  I think, with the relentlessness of these attacks, and this revelation, it's pretty obvious that things are being orchestrated behind the scenes, and we deserve to know who the source of this supposed inside info is. Enough is enough. It isn't just a simple mindset by certain males.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 05, 2016, 02:20:29 PM
I agree with all three posts immediately above. Without evidence, which has never been presented, I ascribe it to the usual 'manipulative controlling woman' trope.
It's obvious that BW would particularly benefit from a smart, sensitive, helpful, supportive partner who takes care of practical concerns for him. To interpret the fact he's found someone good for him as evidence that either she's controlling or he's controlled says more about the interpreters than the subjects to me.

Except that Cincinnati Kid said that he has an "insider" source for this information that would "embarrass" those questioning him.  I think, with the relentlessness of these attacks, and this revelation, it's pretty obvious that things are being orchestrated behind the scenes, and we deserve to know who the source of this supposed inside info is. Enough is enough. It isn't just a simple mindset by certain males.

That's a good point. My guess is it's a combination of a few things, with different aspects contributing to different posters' views: mistaken misinformation on the part of some; actual intentional misinformation or spinning on the part of others. I think some posters have no 'inside' connection, but find it easier to believe this spin (which does seem to be sometimes intentionally fed) because of their biased mindset (either against women or for Mike Love. It's a little mysterious, but seems to be the case that defensiveness of Mike Love sometimes translates into insulting Melinda.)
That you're frustrated and want to know where the misinformation is coming from is completely understandable. It would be nice for it to be cleared up.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Debbie KL on April 05, 2016, 02:32:54 PM
I agree with all three posts immediately above. Without evidence, which has never been presented, I ascribe it to the usual 'manipulative controlling woman' trope.
It's obvious that BW would particularly benefit from a smart, sensitive, helpful, supportive partner who takes care of practical concerns for him. To interpret the fact he's found someone good for him as evidence that either she's controlling or he's controlled says more about the interpreters than the subjects to me.

Except that Cincinnati Kid said that he has an "insider" source for this information that would "embarrass" those questioning him.  I think, with the relentlessness of these attacks, and this revelation, it's pretty obvious that things are being orchestrated behind the scenes, and we deserve to know who the source of this supposed inside info is. Enough is enough. It isn't just a simple mindset by certain males.

That's a good point. My guess is it's a combination of a few things, with different aspects contributing to different posters' views: mistaken misinformation on the part of some; actual intentional misinformation or spinning on the part of others. I think some posters have no 'inside' connection, but find it easier to believe this spin (which does seem to be sometimes intentionally fed) because of their biased mindset.
That you're frustrated and want to know where the misinformation is coming from is completely understandable. It would be nice for it to be cleared up.


I am beyond frustrated, true.  Beyond being nice to have it cleared up, it would end a nasty little cancer on this board that's gone on for too long.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: mikeddonn on April 05, 2016, 02:35:56 PM
I agree with all three posts immediately above. Without evidence, which has never been presented, I ascribe it to the usual 'manipulative controlling woman' trope.
It's obvious that BW would particularly benefit from a smart, sensitive, helpful, supportive partner who takes care of practical concerns for him. To interpret the fact he's found someone good for him as evidence that either she's controlling or he's controlled says more about the interpreters than the subjects to me.

Except that Cincinnati Kid said that he has an "insider" source for this information that would "embarrass" those questioning him.  I think, with the relentlessness of these attacks, and this revelation, it's pretty obvious that things are being orchestrated behind the scenes, and we deserve to know who the source of this supposed inside info is. Enough is enough. It isn't just a simple mindset by certain males.

That's a good point. My guess is it's a combination of a few things, with different aspects contributing to different posters' views: mistaken misinformation on the part of some; actual intentional misinformation or spinning on the part of others. I think some posters have no 'inside' connection, but find it easier to believe this spin (which does seem to be sometimes intentionally fed) because of their biased mindset.
That you're frustrated and want to know where the misinformation is coming from is completely understandable. It would be nice for it to be cleared up.


As people who have sources have pointed out here in the past - the moment you reveal who your source is is when they stop being your source.  So I doubt if the Kid has a source they will reveal who it is.

Please don't take this as me thinking they have a source!

FWIW, I think Melinda is great for Brian.  I met her once at a show and she was a lovely person to me.  So I have the upmost respect for her.  I also trust someone like Ray, and know from experience when I met Brian there were no 'handlers' around and Melinda was back home in the States I believe.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 05, 2016, 02:40:45 PM
I understand people not wanting to reveal their sources but repeated insinuations at some point need to be backed up. If people won't back it up, perhaps they should stop insinuating. Keep their sourced information secret along with the source. Otherwise, the exchange of information becomes completely unreliable.

It seems reasonable at this point, as the insinuations have been frequently repeated over several years, to request that everyone put their cards on the table. So I'll join Debbie in asking, what's the deal folks? What are the facts behind the insinuations?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Debbie KL on April 05, 2016, 02:44:10 PM
I agree with all three posts immediately above. Without evidence, which has never been presented, I ascribe it to the usual 'manipulative controlling woman' trope.
It's obvious that BW would particularly benefit from a smart, sensitive, helpful, supportive partner who takes care of practical concerns for him. To interpret the fact he's found someone good for him as evidence that either she's controlling or he's controlled says more about the interpreters than the subjects to me.

Except that Cincinnati Kid said that he has an "insider" source for this information that would "embarrass" those questioning him.  I think, with the relentlessness of these attacks, and this revelation, it's pretty obvious that things are being orchestrated behind the scenes, and we deserve to know who the source of this supposed inside info is. Enough is enough. It isn't just a simple mindset by certain males.

That's a good point. My guess is it's a combination of a few things, with different aspects contributing to different posters' views: mistaken misinformation on the part of some; actual intentional misinformation or spinning on the part of others. I think some posters have no 'inside' connection, but find it easier to believe this spin (which does seem to be sometimes intentionally fed) because of their biased mindset.
That you're frustrated and want to know where the misinformation is coming from is completely understandable. It would be nice for it to be cleared up.


As people who have sources have pointed out here in the past - the moment you reveal who your source is is when they stop being your source.  So I doubt if the Kid has a source they will reveal who it is.

Please don't take this as me thinking they have a source!

FWIW, I think Melinda is great for Brian.  I met her once at a show and she was a lovely person to me.  So I have the upmost respect for her.  I also trust someone like Ray, and know from experience when I met Brian there were no 'handlers' around and Melinda was back home in the States I believe.

Oh, I think many of them very much do have a source.  Just not any of the real "insiders" I mentioned in my previous post.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: the captain on April 05, 2016, 04:32:31 PM
My personal practice is that when someone not known to have "sources" (let's be clear, we know perfectly well that many people here, whether titled "Honored Guests" or not, have legitimate contacts in the real world of the BBs ... and others, not) starts blabbing, but produces nothing of merit (i.e., not a journalist, an author, a historian) and instead just drops (inevitably negative ... anyone ever notice that?) innuendo here, I just ignore it to the best of my ability. (And sometimes that ability wanes and instead I say something really nasty and risk a ban.) My assumption tends to be that anyone who may have been said "source" has quite a case of sour grapes to begin with, hence the inevitable negativity in speaking to some non-content producing fan.

Not claiming that's some great wisdom or anything, or that it's foolproof. But it keeps my blood pressure under control. Let the gnostic nonsense flow by. That makes all the difference to me.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: The Cincinnati Kid on April 05, 2016, 04:36:44 PM
Debbie, please check your pm inbox as that should clear things up.  If not, let me know.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Debbie KL on April 05, 2016, 04:55:30 PM
Debbie, please check your pm inbox as that should clear things up.  If not, let me know.

I see nothing in my pm box.  When did you send me a msg?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 05, 2016, 04:57:41 PM
My personal practice is that when someone not known to have "sources" (let's be clear, we know perfectly well that many people here, whether titled "Honored Guests" or not, have legitimate contacts in the real world of the BBs ... and others, not) starts blabbing, but produces nothing of merit (i.e., not a journalist, an author, a historian) and instead just drops (inevitably negative ... anyone ever notice that?) innuendo here, I just ignore it to the best of my ability. (And sometimes that ability wanes and instead I say something really nasty and risk a ban.) My assumption tends to be that anyone who may have been said "source" has quite a case of sour grapes to begin with, hence the inevitable negativity in speaking to some non-content producing fan.

Not claiming that's some great wisdom or anything, or that it's foolproof. But it keeps my blood pressure under control. Let the gnostic nonsense flow by. That makes all the difference to me.
I agree generally with the practice, but I'm trying to support Debbie. She's in a different position. I can ignore unpleasant insinuations about someone I don't know, but if people were repeatedly making unpleasant and untrue insinuations about my close friends, I'd want to find out where they're getting their false info and nip it in the bud.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cam Mott on April 05, 2016, 09:39:45 PM
I'm not sure what is going on but the Kid said he was not accusing Melinda.

"Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?   ::) (Before someone accuses me of accusing Melinda of what I just said, settle down because I'm not)"


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Lee Marshall on April 06, 2016, 05:58:52 AM
My wife has my back.  She doesn't tolerate people messin' with our groceries...or our peace of mind as a collective.  Melinda is there for Brian and her family.  That's how it's done.  :hat

Well isn't it? ???


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Debbie KL on April 06, 2016, 09:10:05 AM
Debbie, please check your pm inbox as that should clear things up.  If not, let me know.

I finally did get your pm.  I didnít realize at the time of your post that you were trying to direct me to other pmís that I had received from someone with considerable power on this Board, but thanks for making that clear.  The irony isnít lost on me (nor the usual machinations) that Iím being boxed into silence by pmís, the modus operandi of this sleazy little behind the scenes operation on SS:  An operation to defame Melinda Wilson, and in the process an attempt to make people believe that Brian is touring either unwillingly or ďunder the influence.Ē 

Yet, this garbage is allowed to continue on SS with the perpetrators (whom I have to assume this person in power can identify) allowed to continue merrily on.  I am beyond disgusted by what is being allowed here.  It is  an attack, not only on Brian Wilsonís legacy, but in ďreal timeĒ itís an attack on his tour.  Is this really lost on the people in power here?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Autotune on April 06, 2016, 09:23:42 AM
I thknk that if issues regarding PM's are brought to the forum, then people need speak up and call things by their name. Otherwise it becomes confusing for readers who don't know what's going?

Just who wrote what?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: The Cincinnati Kid on April 06, 2016, 09:30:03 AM
Debbie, please check your pm inbox as that should clear things up.  If not, let me know.

I finally did get your pm.  I didnít realize at the time of your post that you were trying to direct me to other pmís that I had received from someone with considerable power on this Board, but thanks for making that clear.  The irony isnít lost on me (nor the usual machinations) that Iím being boxed into silence by pmís, the modus operandi of this sleazy little behind the scenes operation on SS:  An operation to defame Melinda Wilson, and in the process an attempt to make people believe that Brian is touring either unwillingly or ďunder the influence.Ē 

Yet, this garbage is allowed to continue on SS with the perpetrators (whom I have to assume this person in power can identify) allowed to continue merrily on.  I am beyond disgusted by what is being allowed here.  It is  an attack, not only on Brian Wilsonís legacy, but in ďreal timeĒ itís an attack on his tour.  Is this really lost on the people in power here?


I hope you're not referring to me and the other person who sent you a pm when you say you're being boxed into silence or that we're in an operation to defame Melinda.  I wanted you to read his pm because he's where I got my info from.  He and I both know now that the info we received is incorrect.    


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: rab2591 on April 06, 2016, 09:31:51 AM
Quote
Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?
Can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't be able to stay as mod if that were the case.  It's one of the reasons why I couldn't be on any of the Scott Weiland groups, having known what was really going on with him. I'm still here, and not going anywhere (health permitting)

Well we're all glad to have you here, Billy!  ;D

It just bugs me when people say someone is wrong because an insider said differently.  If it really was like a WIBN 2, they're not going to tell us.  

You are too much kid.  So you think the super-secret, tell-no-one third-hand info you have is more reliable than Ray, Debbie, etc?  Good luck in life being that gullible.  Somehow you've come to think you have secret knowledge that no one else has.  But we all hear the stories, receive the PMs, the top secret info that we are to repeat to no one, etc.  The truth is, none of us outsiders have special knowledge.  The minute you think you do is the minute you should realize you've been had.

EoL

All I'm going to say is you'd feel a bit embarrassed if you know who told me.  I'm not even sure why you posting here to be honest.  The vast majority of your posts the past couple years is just you arguing with people.  Before that, you made some really nice posts and I enjoyed listening to the music you made.

Okay.  So tell me who this incredible "insider" is who told you that Melinda isn't "above board."  I really want to know.  I'm fairly certain that Brian's attorneys and medical team aren't stupid enough to give inside info to some juvenile poster on a message board.  I feel equally certain that it wasn't Jean Sievers, Melinda or Brian.  So tell me who this person is who will make me feel so embarrassed to have questioned their inside info.

I think most of us know who this ďinsiderĒ is. Most of us have gotten PMs from this person. I know I have. This ďinsiderĒ uses the PM function like a 24/7 telegraph service. Itís one huge reason why I left this place. Itís sad when you get a PM from a supposedly respected member of the board that basically attempts to undermine the credibility of Melinda Wilson and her story. I knew the information I received was bullshit and said as much. Now, had this been a one time deal I wouldíve blamed it on bad information and left it at that. But I have heard from others on this board who have received similar contact from this person with information that attempts to discredit Melinda in different ways. Itís a shadow campaign that has sucked a lot of people in.

Other things have been done by this ďinsiderĒ that leave me aghast. And I guarantee you this ďinsiderĒ will not directly challenge the things Iím writing in this post because it would most likely spark the fumes that have been building for YEARS now. A lot of posters are pissed off about this stuff.

Frankly, I donít blame the Cincinnati Kid for getting caught up in it. I have been reading his posts over the years and no doubt assumed he was duped with some bullshit information somewhere along the line. The game seems to be: prey on the naivety of younger/newer fans: give them niblets of ďinsiderĒ scoop, build a foundation of trust, and then tell untruths about a certain side of the organization via PM. The great thing about convincing younger/newer/enthusiastic fans this bullshit is that they carry the torch for the next generationÖand thereís almost no better way to ensure your version of history becomes solidified fact than by doing that. And of course thereís the bonus that these enthusiastic fans will be eager to share this information with others - and thus this crap spreads like wildfire.

I will directly ask the Cincinnati Kid: Is this what happened, or something similar? (donít bother answering me via PM, as I have the function turned off, we can keep this public)

This message board is ground zero for pretty much any information about The Beach Boys and Brian Wilson. Which means this place bears a huge responsibly for the historical accuracy of this band. Unfortunately, the high-profile of this place, the bolstered reputations of certain posters, and a seeming agenda to spread untruths (whether knowingly or unknowingly) have made for a perfect storm of falsehoods. Not only is the main board being used to perpetuate some rather presumptuous and false claims about Brianís camp but the PM function is used in an even greater way to spread this untruthful information. The PM function serves as a phenomenal tool to keep this person from being challenged when making these ridiculous claims. Because if this person were to publicly share these allegations they would be admonished by the powers that be.

Given what has taken place in recent years, Iím fairly uneasy about even posting this. Some of the sh*t that has gone on behind the scenes still leaves me jaw-dropped. Because of all of this (and a few other reasons), I had to walk away from this place last December. Yes, I said Iíd leave for good but from what Iíve seen here lately I think itís hugely important to shed light on the things that take place here. I canít stand to see more young/enthusiastic posters get caught up in the same bullshit that I and others got caught up in years ago.

To people like Cincinnati Kid and everyone else who has ďreliableĒ sources (on both sides of the spectrum): fact-check, research, compile. Donít trust sources because they are ďinsidersĒ or ďconnectedĒ. Look at every angle and logically deduce what you think is right. I think that advice can go to everyone here, including myself.

PS. This bullshit that Melinda is Landy part II needs to stop. Landy was a psychotic control freak who had people surrounding Brian 24/7. Today, Brian is under no such scrutiny and goes where he wants to go when he wants to go. In the past few years he has recorded and worked with some of the finest musicians in the industry, he has done successful tours that have left audience goers in tears and breathless at the beauty and grandeur. No matter how much some of you want to believe that Brianís world is black and white, it most certainly isnít. Is Brian living in a perfect world? Probably not! Remember that Brian is a very active/creative person with schizo-affective disorder, auditory hallucinations, and manic depression. Iím certain that it becomes a high wire act to balance out Brianís happiness, longevity, mental health, physical health, and reputation. There are so many wonderful people who love and care for Brian right now: Itís a slap in the face to each and every one of them to infer that shady things take place in that camp. Brian is looked at and cared for by some of the worlds best doctors and mental health providers. Hell, his whole current world was given a microscopic view by Bill Polhad and others for the film Love and Mercy. If anything drastically unhealthy were taking place in this organization it would most certainly would have come to light in a big way by now.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Empire Of Love on April 06, 2016, 09:33:17 AM
I thknk that if issues regarding PM's are brought to the forum, then people need speak up and call things by their name. Otherwise it becomes confusing for readers who don't know what's going?

Just who wrote what?

Debbie: I am having no trouble following along.  Given the comments made by certain posters, the bizarre circles of refusal to speak plainly by others, the unfounded accusations by those in the know or who think they are in the know, etc...it is plain there have been some strange things going on here behind the scenes.  I am glad someone is finally calling attention to it, even if Autotune pretends to be having a hard time keeping up.

EoL


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Debbie KL on April 06, 2016, 09:34:33 AM
I thknk that if issues regarding PM's are brought to the forum, then people need speak up and call things by their name. Otherwise it becomes confusing for readers who don't know what's going?

Just who wrote what?

I agree.  I don't know the originating person(s) responsible for the lies as that wasn't shared with me, but I too believe names should be named after all this time so that people receiving this misleading information are made aware, given the seriousness of all of this.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: The Cincinnati Kid on April 06, 2016, 09:36:04 AM
rab:  It wasn't AGD.  It's someone I think all of us like very much.  If he wants to reveal his name he can, but if not, I understand that too.  We both now know the info we received is incorrect and that's all that matters to me at this point.  


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: rab2591 on April 06, 2016, 09:43:01 AM
rab:  It wasn't AGD.  It's someone I think all of us like very much.  If he wants to reveal his name he can, but if not, I understand that too.  We both now know the info we received is incorrect and that's all that matters to me at this point. 

So if you got bad information, who gave all of you the bad information to begin with? And if the information is bad, why doesn't the person responsible correct it here?

Who knows how many people this false information was spread to...I think the best course of action is to make the correction public so we all get the facts straight.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Empire Of Love on April 06, 2016, 09:45:05 AM
rab:  It wasn't AGD.  It's someone I think all of us like very much.  If he wants to reveal his name he can, but if not, I understand that too.  We both now know the info we received is incorrect and that's all that matters to me at this point.  

The important thing is who is the ultimate source of the incorrect information?  This is not an isolated incident, if it were, no big deal.  But this is something that has a far reach.  I have a PM from someone claiming to have inside information who defames Melinda.  I know of at least one other.  That makes *at least* three such occurrences.  If the ultimate source of the information is the same person then we have a pattern.  If we have a pattern then we have a problem that should be addressed, especially if the person turns out to be a respected poster who has inside connections with either, or both, camps.

EoL


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 06, 2016, 09:55:58 AM
If The Cincinnati Kid and his/her compadre are not comfortable publicly naming names, I can understand that. I think, as The Cincinnati Kid made a public innuendo, then learned that his/her private information was incorrect, it's on him/her to publicly recant the innuendo. S/He's done that and it's hard to publicly say you were wrong, particularly after tempers have been raised, so good for The Cincinnati Kid.

edit to add: I'm not saying that the original sources shouldn't be sought and the whole thing cleared up, but I think The Cincinnati Kid unknowingly stumbled into a difficult situation and perhaps shouldn't be beat up too much for it.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 06, 2016, 10:04:56 AM
Quote
Plus, if Melinda or anyone else close to Brian was not acting aboveboard, does anyone really think they'd tell us?
Can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't be able to stay as mod if that were the case.  It's one of the reasons why I couldn't be on any of the Scott Weiland groups, having known what was really going on with him. I'm still here, and not going anywhere (health permitting)

Well we're all glad to have you here, Billy!  ;D

It just bugs me when people say someone is wrong because an insider said differently.  If it really was like a WIBN 2, they're not going to tell us.  

You are too much kid.  So you think the super-secret, tell-no-one third-hand info you have is more reliable than Ray, Debbie, etc?  Good luck in life being that gullible.  Somehow you've come to think you have secret knowledge that no one else has.  But we all hear the stories, receive the PMs, the top secret info that we are to repeat to no one, etc.  The truth is, none of us outsiders have special knowledge.  The minute you think you do is the minute you should realize you've been had.

EoL

All I'm going to say is you'd feel a bit embarrassed if you know who told me.  I'm not even sure why you posting here to be honest.  The vast majority of your posts the past couple years is just you arguing with people.  Before that, you made some really nice posts and I enjoyed listening to the music you made.

Okay.  So tell me who this incredible "insider" is who told you that Melinda isn't "above board."  I really want to know.  I'm fairly certain that Brian's attorneys and medical team aren't stupid enough to give inside info to some juvenile poster on a message board.  I feel equally certain that it wasn't Jean Sievers, Melinda or Brian.  So tell me who this person is who will make me feel so embarrassed to have questioned their inside info.

I think most of us know who this ďinsiderĒ is. Most of us have gotten PMs from this person. I know I have. This ďinsiderĒ uses the PM function like a 24/7 telegraph service. Itís one huge reason why I left this place. Itís sad when you get a PM from a supposedly respected member of the board that basically attempts to undermine the credibility of Melinda Wilson and her story. I knew the information I received was bullshit and said as much. Now, had this been a one time deal I wouldíve blamed it on bad information and left it at that. But I have heard from others on this board who have received similar contact from this person with information that attempts to discredit Melinda in different ways. Itís a shadow campaign that has sucked a lot of people in.

Other things have been done by this ďinsiderĒ that leave me aghast. And I guarantee you this ďinsiderĒ will not directly challenge the things Iím writing in this post because it would most likely spark the fumes that have been building for YEARS now. A lot of posters are pissed off about this stuff.

Frankly, I donít blame the Cincinnati Kid for getting caught up in it. I have been reading his posts over the years and no doubt assumed he was duped with some bullshit information somewhere along the line. The game seems to be: prey on the naivety of younger/newer fans: give them niblets of ďinsiderĒ scoop, build a foundation of trust, and then tell untruths about a certain side of the organization via PM. The great thing about convincing younger/newer/enthusiastic fans this bullshit is that they carry the torch for the next generationÖand thereís almost no better way to ensure your version of history becomes solidified fact than by doing that. And of course thereís the bonus that these enthusiastic fans will be eager to share this information with others - and thus this crap spreads like wildfire.

I will directly ask the Cincinnati Kid: Is this what happened, or something similar? (donít bother answering me via PM, as I have the function turned off, we can keep this public)

This message board is ground zero for pretty much any information about The Beach Boys and Brian Wilson. Which means this place bears a huge responsibly for the historical accuracy of this band. Unfortunately, the high-profile of this place, the bolstered reputations of certain posters, and a seeming agenda to spread untruths (whether knowingly or unknowingly) have made for a perfect storm of falsehoods. Not only is the main board being used to perpetuate some rather presumptuous and false claims about Brianís camp but the PM function is used in an even greater way to spread this untruthful information. The PM function serves as a phenomenal tool to keep this person from being challenged when making these ridiculous claims. Because if this person were to publicly share these allegations they would be admonished by the powers that be.

Given what has taken place in recent years, Iím fairly uneasy about even posting this. Some of the sh*t that has gone on behind the scenes still leaves me jaw-dropped. Because of all of this (and a few other reasons), I had to walk away from this place last December. Yes, I said Iíd leave for good but from what Iíve seen here lately I think itís hugely important to shed light on the things that take place here. I canít stand to see more young/enthusiastic posters get caught up in the same bullshit that I and others got caught up in years ago.

To people like Cincinnati Kid and everyone else who has ďreliableĒ sources (on both sides of the spectrum): fact-check, research, compile. Donít trust sources because they are ďinsidersĒ or ďconnectedĒ. Look at every angle and logically deduce what you think is right. I think that advice can go to everyone here, including myself.

PS. This bullshit that Melinda is Landy part II needs to stop. Landy was a psychotic control freak who had people surrounding Brian 24/7. Today, Brian is under no such scrutiny and goes where he wants to go when he wants to go. In the past few years he has recorded and worked with some of the finest musicians in the industry, he has done successful tours that have left audience goers in tears and breathless at the beauty and grandeur. No matter how much some of you want to believe that Brianís world is black and white, it most certainly isnít. Is Brian living in a perfect world? Probably not! Remember that Brian is a very active/creative person with schizo-affective disorder, auditory hallucinations, and manic depression. Iím certain that it becomes a high wire act to balance out Brianís happiness, longevity, mental health, physical health, and reputation. There are so many wonderful people who love and care for Brian right now: Itís a slap in the face to each and every one of them to infer that shady things take place in that camp. Brian is looked at and cared for by some of the worlds best doctors and mental health providers. Hell, his whole current world was given a microscopic view by Bill Polhad and others for the film Love and Mercy. If anything drastically unhealthy were taking place in this organization it would most certainly would have come to light in a big way by now.

Very well put, rab2591. I think it's very easy for some people to pass judgment and make assumptions of what it must be like to be the spouse of Brian Wilson, but ultimately none of us have walked in her shoes.  She's not perfect, none of us are, but I'm sure she's doing her best, and she has a lot to contend with. The fact of the matter is that Brian has made major life strides and seems happy. For people to suggest otherwise is to insinuate Brian's smiling photos these days are some sort of trick.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: SMiLE Brian on April 06, 2016, 10:07:08 AM
BW looks really happy on the PS50 tour, this is a guy enjoying the fruits of his labor for sure.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 06, 2016, 10:18:04 AM
You know, I keep going back to the Stroumboulopoulos interview. Brian can give awkward interviews, for sure. But this isn't a guy who's controlled. This isn't a guy who's miserable and doesn't like what he's doing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn9nLxUAAmI
I think that whoever is spreading incorrect information should stop and should properly make sure that their incorrect information is recanted to the degree that it no longer has any effect on public perception. That's the right thing to do.
Otherwise, I'm glad that it seems clear that on this board, that kind of thing doesn't go very far at this time. I understand that once upon a time it did; and good for SmileySmile.net that it knows better now.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cam Mott on April 06, 2016, 10:20:13 AM
Not that I want to hear it anyway, but it feels like when I was chosen last on the playground that I haven't been made privy to these PMs.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: rab2591 on April 06, 2016, 10:20:35 AM
If The Cincinnati Kid and his/her compadre are not comfortable publicly naming names, I can understand that. I think, as The Cincinnati Kid made a public innuendo, then learned that his/her private information was incorrect, it's on him/her to publicly recant the innuendo. S/He's done that and it's hard to publicly say you were wrong, particularly after tempers have been raised, so good for The Cincinnati Kid.

edit to add: I'm not saying that the original sources shouldn't be sought and the whole thing cleared up, but I think The Cincinnati Kid unknowingly stumbled into a difficult situation and perhaps shouldn't be beat up too much for it.

A small but vocal narrative on this board for a while has been that Brian is controlled. I have to assume that the people that tow that line are getting the same information that is being alluded to here. This isn't a private matter - this is a matter that has had the potential to affect the reputation of Melinda Wilson. It has been made a public matter by not only those who admit they were given incorrect info just now, but by all those who have supported this narrative throughout the years. When people are getting highly sleazy information behind the scenes, and even information that seems harmless enough but does have the potential to undermine Melinda's credibility, it becomes a real problem for the sake of the board...hell, for the sake of historical accuracy.

I'm not asking Cincinnati Kid to bear the weight of all of this. He admitted he was duped and got incorrect information. But perhaps the person who Debbie says is "someone with considerable power on this Board" could enlighten us on this matter.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: SMiLE Brian on April 06, 2016, 10:23:57 AM
It seems like the guys who make the rumors about BW being controlled are the miserable ones who BW long cut out of his life.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cam Mott on April 06, 2016, 10:24:38 AM
Did no one else notice that the Kid said he was NOT accusing Melinda in the source post?

Or do I need my bifocals checked?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on April 06, 2016, 10:36:52 AM
Did no one else notice that the Kid said he was NOT accusing Melinda in the source post?

Or do I need my bifocals checked?

Isn't the point that he's made the claim that people have made these accusations, people who are important enough to embarrass those who dismiss those accusations, and now it turns out those claims were false and people are now trying to figure out who made those false accusations in the first place? Isn't that the narrative here?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 06, 2016, 10:41:07 AM
If The Cincinnati Kid and his/her compadre are not comfortable publicly naming names, I can understand that. I think, as The Cincinnati Kid made a public innuendo, then learned that his/her private information was incorrect, it's on him/her to publicly recant the innuendo. S/He's done that and it's hard to publicly say you were wrong, particularly after tempers have been raised, so good for The Cincinnati Kid.

edit to add: I'm not saying that the original sources shouldn't be sought and the whole thing cleared up, but I think The Cincinnati Kid unknowingly stumbled into a difficult situation and perhaps shouldn't be beat up too much for it.

A small but vocal narrative on this board for a while has been that Brian is controlled. I have to assume that the people that tow that line are getting the same information that is being alluded to here. This isn't a private matter - this is a matter that has had the potential to affect the reputation of Melinda Wilson. It has been made a public matter by not only those who admit they were given incorrect info just now, but by all those who have supported this narrative throughout the years. When people are getting highly sleazy information behind the scenes, and even information that seems harmless enough but does have the potential to undermine Melinda's credibility, it becomes a real problem for the sake of the board...hell, for the sake of historical accuracy.

I'm not asking Cincinnati Kid to bear the weight of all of this. He admitted he was duped and got incorrect information. But perhaps the person who Debbie says is "someone with considerable power on this Board" could enlighten us on this matter.
I agree with you, though I think this thread is evidence that not many people are buying what they're selling. I would like very much if someone would open the closed door and let us all see what's going on back there. And I encourage people to put the cards on the table, and all those metaphors. But, I also think that The Cincinnati Kid, as I think you agree, shouldn't be made the scape goat for the whole movement.
Basically, what I'm saying is that it might not seem that I agree with you, because my emphasis was on 'leave Cincinnati Kid alone' but I do agree with you.
(http://s16.postimg.org/l7n2lpfth/leave_brittany_alone_1.jpg)

eta: I also think that what I thought was a mounting witch trial of Cincinnati Kid has not occurred and seems unlikely to, so please carry on.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 06, 2016, 10:41:38 AM

A small but vocal narrative on this board for a while has been that Brian is controlled. I have to assume that the people that tow that line are getting the same information that is being alluded to here. This isn't a private matter - this is a matter that has had the potential to affect the reputation of Melinda Wilson. It has been made a public matter by not only those who admit they were given incorrect info just now, but by all those who have supported this narrative throughout the years. When people are getting highly sleazy information behind the scenes, and even information that seems harmless enough but does have the potential to undermine Melinda's credibility, it becomes a real problem for the sake of the board...hell, for the sake of historical accuracy.


Yes.

I frankly donít think itís possible to be a responsible spouse of a guy like Brian, and to not exhibit what some outside people might construe as somewhat of a controlling nature at times. That doesnít mean that Melinda is anything like Landy. If Brian is a guy who Ė on his own Ė has a hard time ever saying ďnoĒ, and he has a history of toxic people - including blood relatives - exploiting that tendency, what is a protective spouse possibly supposed to do in that type of situation? The answer: her best. I can understand why that could potentially piss some people off, but it has to be considered in that context, and the "Landy" comparison should be nixed for all time. For critics of Melinda, I pose the same question: what is someone in her shoes supposed to do if she truly feels that people are trying to exploit and use Brian?

Again, the truth is in the fact that Brian seems outwardly *noticeably* happier than he has in decades.  Significantly so. Also, his bandmate for decades and old friend from his teenage years, Al, is there by his side all the time and isnít calling foul. Thatís got to say something.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cam Mott on April 06, 2016, 10:51:38 AM
Did no one else notice that the Kid said he was NOT accusing Melinda in the source post?

Or do I need my bifocals checked?

Isn't the point that he's made the claim that people have made these accusations, people who are important enough to embarrass those who dismiss those accusations, and now it turns out those claims were false and people are now trying to figure out who made those false accusations in the first place? Isn't that the narrative here?

I don't think so. It seems to me he acknowledged that people were saying things which he never believed, hence from the very get go he was not accusing Melinda yet people commenced shooting the messenger (Kid). Kid can speak for himself, and has, but it seems people are not hearing him.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on April 06, 2016, 10:59:11 AM
Quote
To people like Cincinnati Kid and everyone else who has ďreliableĒ sources (on both sides of the spectrum): fact-check, research, compile. Donít trust sources because they are ďinsidersĒ or ďconnectedĒ. Look at every angle and logically deduce what you think is right. I think that advice can go to everyone here, including myself.

PS. This bullshit that Melinda is Landy part II needs to stop. Landy was a psychotic control freak who had people surrounding Brian 24/7. Today, Brian is under no such scrutiny and goes where he wants to go when he wants to go. In the past few years he has recorded and worked with some of the finest musicians in the industry, he has done successful tours that have left audience goers in tears and breathless at the beauty and grandeur. No matter how much some of you want to believe that Brianís world is black and white, it most certainly isnít. Is Brian living in a perfect world? Probably not! Remember that Brian is a very active/creative person with schizo-affective disorder, auditory hallucinations, and manic depression. Iím certain that it becomes a high wire act to balance out Brianís happiness, longevity, mental health, physical health, and reputation. There are so many wonderful people who love and care for Brian right now: Itís a slap in the face to each and every one of them to infer that shady things take place in that camp. Brian is looked at and cared for by some of the worlds best doctors and mental health providers. Hell, his whole current world was given a microscopic view by Bill Polhad and others for the film Love and Mercy. If anything drastically unhealthy were taking place in this organization it would most certainly would have come to light in a big way by now.

On these two points...

1) Very true, and something I've had to learn the hard way over the years.

2) I've seen absolutely nothing to the contrary


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on April 06, 2016, 11:00:15 AM
Did no one else notice that the Kid said he was NOT accusing Melinda in the source post?

Or do I need my bifocals checked?

Isn't the point that he's made the claim that people have made these accusations, people who are important enough to embarrass those who dismiss those accusations, and now it turns out those claims were false and people are now trying to figure out who made those false accusations in the first place? Isn't that the narrative here?

I don't think so. It seems to me he acknowledged that people were saying things which he never believed, hence from the very get go he was not accusing Melinda yet people commenced shooting the messenger (Kid). Kid can speak for himself, and has, but it seems people are not hearing him.

It seems to me that people have acknowledged this since the last page.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Paul J B on April 06, 2016, 11:03:54 AM
Anyone that thinks Melinda was/is bad for Brian is ignorant. After Brian married her, was when the true "Brian is Back" era began. Does she push him and influence him?.....ah....yes...and so what. That is not a bad thing. I can't get into all of the reasons why right now but I firmly believe Brian does need people, people that have his best interest at heart, to coax him along to an extent. I don't know anyone with mental health issues that does not require continued help. Melinda was/is the right help. It seems she rubs some people the wrong way but again, so what. Before she came along what was Brian's professional life going like? An occasional appearance with the Boys in concert and his '88 album that had the taint of Landy. Add up all that we as fans have received since Brian married Melinda and it's pretty staggering.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: rab2591 on April 06, 2016, 11:04:14 AM
If The Cincinnati Kid and his/her compadre are not comfortable publicly naming names, I can understand that. I think, as The Cincinnati Kid made a public innuendo, then learned that his/her private information was incorrect, it's on him/her to publicly recant the innuendo. S/He's done that and it's hard to publicly say you were wrong, particularly after tempers have been raised, so good for The Cincinnati Kid.

edit to add: I'm not saying that the original sources shouldn't be sought and the whole thing cleared up, but I think The Cincinnati Kid unknowingly stumbled into a difficult situation and perhaps shouldn't be beat up too much for it.

A small but vocal narrative on this board for a while has been that Brian is controlled. I have to assume that the people that tow that line are getting the same information that is being alluded to here. This isn't a private matter - this is a matter that has had the potential to affect the reputation of Melinda Wilson. It has been made a public matter by not only those who admit they were given incorrect info just now, but by all those who have supported this narrative throughout the years. When people are getting highly sleazy information behind the scenes, and even information that seems harmless enough but does have the potential to undermine Melinda's credibility, it becomes a real problem for the sake of the board...hell, for the sake of historical accuracy.

I'm not asking Cincinnati Kid to bear the weight of all of this. He admitted he was duped and got incorrect information. But perhaps the person who Debbie says is "someone with considerable power on this Board" could enlighten us on this matter.
I agree with you, though I think this thread is evidence that not many people are buying what they're selling. I would like very much if someone would open the closed door and let us all see what's going on back there. And I encourage people to put the cards on the table, and all those metaphors. But, I also think that The Cincinnati Kid, as I think you agree, shouldn't be made the scape goat for the whole movement.
Basically, what I'm saying is that it might not seem that I agree with you, because my emphasis was on 'leave Cincinnati Kid alone' but I do agree with you.

eta: I also think that what I thought was a mounting witch trial of Cincinnati Kid has not occurred and seems unlikely to, so please carry on.

No, I totally see your point, and I think we both agree 100%. Pardon if I made it sound like I wasn't in agreement with you. I have no problems with Cincinnati Kid. I was duped by false information years ago as well, which is why this is a very important topic to me.

Cam, that point is totally irrelevant at this point. I know you're doing your best to filibuster this thread with a completely pointless offshoot of this topic, but may I remind you that regardless of whether or not the Cincinnati Kid believed the information, he still received this information. He further clarified that he and someone "all of us like very much" received this information. I would just love to know who this anonymous source is that is spreading incorrect information.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: SMiLE Brian on April 06, 2016, 11:05:45 AM
Yeah don't shot the messenger of the kid in a greater scheme of deception!


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Empire Of Love on April 06, 2016, 11:07:00 AM
Did no one else notice that the Kid said he was NOT accusing Melinda in the source post?

Or do I need my bifocals checked?

Isn't the point that he's made the claim that people have made these accusations, people who are important enough to embarrass those who dismiss those accusations, and now it turns out those claims were false and people are now trying to figure out who made those false accusations in the first place? Isn't that the narrative here?

I don't think so. It seems to me he acknowledged that people were saying things which he never believed, hence from the very get go he was not accusing Melinda yet people commenced shooting the messenger (Kid). Kid can speak for himself, and has, but it seems people are not hearing him.

Cam: given your proven track record of being unable to acknowledge even the smallest of faults in Mike Love's published statements, very few of us here expect you to be able to pick up on the nuance of what is going on now when it involves a negative regarding information propagated by Mike Love.  Your ability to dissect information seems to diminish to less than nil when Mike is negatively impacted.  Given all prior attempts to enlighten you have been unsuccessful, I don't think we will be able to help remedy your stubbornness in this thread either.  Sorry I cannot be of assistance.

EoL


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: SMiLE Brian on April 06, 2016, 11:10:37 AM
Is Cam a puppet from the ringleader in this online anti-Melinda Wilson PR campaign?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cam Mott on April 06, 2016, 11:13:12 AM
Did no one else notice that the Kid said he was NOT accusing Melinda in the source post?

Or do I need my bifocals checked?

Isn't the point that he's made the claim that people have made these accusations, people who are important enough to embarrass those who dismiss those accusations, and now it turns out those claims were false and people are now trying to figure out who made those false accusations in the first place? Isn't that the narrative here?

I don't think so. It seems to me he acknowledged that people were saying things which he never believed, hence from the very get go he was not accusing Melinda yet people commenced shooting the messenger (Kid). Kid can speak for himself, and has, but it seems people are not hearing him.

Cam: given your proven track record of being unable to acknowledge even the smallest of faults in Mike Love's published statements, very few of us here expect you to be able to pick up on the nuance of what is going on now when it involves a negative regarding information propagated by Mike Love.  Your ability to dissect information seems to diminish to less than nil when Mike is negatively impacted.  Given all prior attempts to enlighten you have been unsuccessful, I don't think we will be able to help remedy your stubbornness in this thread either.  Sorry I cannot be of assistance.

EoL

Aww, you're adorable. I agree, you won't be of assistance to me. By all means though, continue to over-react.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cam Mott on April 06, 2016, 11:19:57 AM
Is Cam a puppet from the ringleader in this online anti-Melinda Wilson PR campaign?

Yes, half of the members are all me under assumed names and we, I mean me, are all on Mike's payroll. Actually I am Mike.

Let me straighten your hat for you (pushes back aluminum foil skull cap). There.   ;D


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cam Mott on April 06, 2016, 11:23:16 AM
Anyone that thinks Melinda was/is bad for Brian is ignorant. After Brian married her, was when the true "Brian is Back" era began. Does she push him and influence him?.....ah....yes...and so what. That is not a bad thing. I can't get into all of the reasons why right now but I firmly believe Brian does need people, people that have his best interest at heart, to coax him along to an extent. I don't know anyone with mental health issues that does not require continued help. Melinda was/is the right help. It seems she rubs some people the wrong way but again, so what. Before she came along what was Brian's professional life going like? An occasional appearance with the Boys in concert and his '88 album that had the taint of Landy. Add up all that we as fans have received since Brian married Melinda and it's pretty staggering.

As has been said before, anyone criticizing Melinda (or any of the spouses) must not have ever been married and certainly haven't walked a mile in their shoes.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on April 06, 2016, 11:31:36 AM
It seems like the guys who make the rumors about BW being controlled are the miserable ones who BW long cut out of his life.

Very true indeed!!


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: MarcellaHasDirtyFeet on April 06, 2016, 12:45:38 PM
Not that I want to hear it anyway, but it feels like when I was chosen last on the playground that I haven't been made privy to these PMs.

Seriously. I should've done a better job sucking up to all of the wrong people.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Lee Marshall on April 06, 2016, 01:22:27 PM
Cudos to the Cinci Kid for having the cajones to come clean, admit that there was an error in the info and let folks here know.

THAT's called bein' a man. :hat

[SJS, on the other hand...I'm not sure what 'that' is that HE does.  He's actually the one who likes to "pile on".  He's always trying to pile up that 'agenda' of his.  He's done it piles of times.  And it's a pile of bull fodder every time.  So then...Is that what it's like to have piles?  ;) ]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By the way Rab....Right on/Bang on.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: the captain on April 06, 2016, 02:48:06 PM
Aww, nobody ever PMs me nasty gossip. I feel left out.

Hey asshole who sends nasty PMs, how about you PM me? PS, I'll probably be rude to you because it seems you're kind of a dick.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Theydon Bois on April 06, 2016, 02:58:04 PM
It's someone I think all of us like very much.

I know what you're all thinking, and so, just to be completely clear, he's not talking about me.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: SurfRiderHawaii on April 06, 2016, 03:43:22 PM
Aww, nobody ever PMs me nasty gossip. I feel left out.

Hey asshole who sends nasty PMs, how about you PM me? PS, I'll probably be rude to you because it seems you're kind of a dick.

You know, a so called "Insider" was PMing malicious BS about me a few years ago. All due to spite and my vocal disapproval of ML.

On the ridiculous topic of Melinda "controlling" Brian ala Landy, I don't believe she is  even on the PSs tour with Brian. Further, it is my understanding that she was only at a handful of dates for the C50.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Debbie KL on April 06, 2016, 03:46:53 PM
...I won't be surprised if this book comes off like WIBN take 2, with Melinda as the savior instead of Landy.

I'm EXPECTING that.

Reminder:  It all started here.  Various posters objected to this comment and were accused of "piling on" when they objected.  CK jumped in citing a "source who would embarrass" those who were objecting to SJS's post - apparently believing this was a real assertion.  CK has since recanted and the anonymous poster who apparently misled CK appears to have claimed in pm's that he had been misled by someone as well here for several years. 

My point is, that poisonous poster spreading the lies is apparently skating along free, not having to answer to anything.  Let's all happily accept CK's mea culpa but that doesn't in any way solve this serious, insidious problem.  Is this really an acceptable end to all of this for you?  Some people here need to "own up" and expose the problem right now.  Enough of the obfuscation.  This destructive behavior by a so-far-unidentified poster has gone on long enough.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on April 06, 2016, 03:52:24 PM
Quote
My point is, that poisonous poster spreading the lies is apparently skating along free, not having to answer to anything.

Not for long...it is indeed being looked at and discussed right now.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: The Shift on April 06, 2016, 03:55:55 PM
Fascinating thread. Seems the day when all Smileysmilers stand together naked in a room and confess everything about their relationship with their parents, their drug use/non-use and the day they pulled the legs off a spider because their schoolmates egged them on draws ever closer. ;)

Can I suggest that for a few hours the Mods allow an amnesty on discussion of the relevant PMs so that this issue can be cleared up openly, and anyone else who might have been maliciously misled is made aware of such.

Also, there's a danger that in not naming the alleged perp, other well-intentioned and thoroughly reputable posters might be assumed by some to be guilty. And that would not be right.

I'm also feeling a little deflated at being picked last for the schoolyard soccer team. ;)


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Debbie KL on April 06, 2016, 04:11:04 PM
Quote
My point is, that poisonous poster spreading the lies is apparently skating along free, not having to answer to anything.

Not for long...it is indeed being looked at and discussed right now.

Billy, that's good to know.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cam Mott on April 06, 2016, 05:01:25 PM

No, I totally see your point, and I think we both agree 100%. Pardon if I made it sound like I wasn't in agreement with you. I have no problems with Cincinnati Kid. I was duped by false information years ago as well, which is why this is a very important topic to me.

Cam, that point is totally irrelevant at this point. I know you're doing your best to filibuster this thread with a completely pointless offshoot of this topic, but may I remind you that regardless of whether or not the Cincinnati Kid believed the information, he still received this information. He further clarified that he and someone "all of us like very much" received this information. I would just love to know who this anonymous source is that is spreading incorrect information.

I'm no more filibustering than you are and you continue to misunderstand what the Kid said. Has any one just asked the secondhand source we all "like very much" who their "source" is?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Debbie KL on April 06, 2016, 05:52:32 PM

No, I totally see your point, and I think we both agree 100%. Pardon if I made it sound like I wasn't in agreement with you. I have no problems with Cincinnati Kid. I was duped by false information years ago as well, which is why this is a very important topic to me.

Cam, that point is totally irrelevant at this point. I know you're doing your best to filibuster this thread with a completely pointless offshoot of this topic, but may I remind you that regardless of whether or not the Cincinnati Kid believed the information, he still received this information. He further clarified that he and someone "all of us like very much" received this information. I would just love to know who this anonymous source is that is spreading incorrect information.

I'm no more filibustering than you are and you continue to misunderstand what the Kid said. Has any one just asked the secondhand source we all "like very much" who their "source" is?

Yes, we have.  We're waiting for a response.  Any more questions?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cam Mott on April 06, 2016, 06:00:12 PM

No, I totally see your point, and I think we both agree 100%. Pardon if I made it sound like I wasn't in agreement with you. I have no problems with Cincinnati Kid. I was duped by false information years ago as well, which is why this is a very important topic to me.

Cam, that point is totally irrelevant at this point. I know you're doing your best to filibuster this thread with a completely pointless offshoot of this topic, but may I remind you that regardless of whether or not the Cincinnati Kid believed the information, he still received this information. He further clarified that he and someone "all of us like very much" received this information. I would just love to know who this anonymous source is that is spreading incorrect information.

I'm no more filibustering than you are and you continue to misunderstand what the Kid said. Has any one just asked the secondhand source we all "like very much" who their "source" is?

Yes, we have.  We're waiting for a response.  Any more questions?

Good.  No.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: 18thofMay on April 06, 2016, 06:02:42 PM
I really honestly don't understand your motivation is Cam. What is at your centre? What drives you?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on April 06, 2016, 06:27:50 PM
I really honestly don't understand your motivation is Cam. What is at your centre? What drives you?

He's a  perturbed myKe luHv fanboy who, because his hero is being exposed,  is one of a dying breed who cannot fathom why his idol is going down in flames.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: SMiLE Brian on April 06, 2016, 06:30:13 PM
All that polyester will do that to a man.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: alf wiedersehen on April 06, 2016, 06:31:57 PM
You guys never fail to amaze me.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on April 06, 2016, 06:38:50 PM
You guys never fail to amaze me.

We're working hard to keep the truth in front of you.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Juice Brohnston on April 06, 2016, 06:39:49 PM
Does Brian have a Manager?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on April 06, 2016, 06:45:12 PM
All that polyester will do that to a man.

 :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: 18thofMay on April 06, 2016, 07:07:44 PM
I really honestly don't understand your motivation is Cam. What is at your centre? What drives you?

Cam?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 06, 2016, 07:14:00 PM


Can I suggest that for a few hours the Mods allow an amnesty on discussion of the relevant PMs so that this issue can be cleared up openly, and anyone else who might have been maliciously misled is made aware of such.

Also, there's a danger that in not naming the alleged perp, other well-intentioned and thoroughly reputable posters might be assumed by some to be guilty. And that would not be right.

^^ both of these. It would be really nice to clear this up. But insinuations without evidence of who the original source is, is just as bad, the same thing, as insinuations without evidence regarding Brian and Melinda. I think there should be a moratorium on insinuating. Be upfront.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cam Mott on April 06, 2016, 07:48:03 PM
I really honestly don't understand your motivation is Cam. What is at your centre? What drives you?

Cam?

I'm fine, thanks for your concern.  Did you have a Beach Boys question or comment?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Doo Dah on April 06, 2016, 08:06:32 PM
I really honestly don't understand your motivation is Cam. What is at your centre? What drives you?

Cam?

I'm fine, thanks for your concern.  Did you have a Beach Boys question or comment?

Yeah, he wants to know if you have like an agenda, or something. Not to get all "Dr. Phil" on ya, but yeah...he wants to know your modus operandi. But you already know that. :lol Now it's time to spin, spin, spin away. Like a RUNAWAY DANCER!


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 06, 2016, 08:39:29 PM

PS. This bullshit that Melinda is Landy part II needs to stop. Landy was a psychotic control freak who had people surrounding Brian 24/7. Today, Brian is under no such scrutiny and goes where he wants to go when he wants to go. In the past few years he has recorded and worked with some of the finest musicians in the industry, he has done successful tours that have left audience goers in tears and breathless at the beauty and grandeur. No matter how much some of you want to believe that Brianís world is black and white, it most certainly isnít. Is Brian living in a perfect world? Probably not! Remember that Brian is a very active/creative person with schizo-affective disorder, auditory hallucinations, and manic depression. Iím certain that it becomes a high wire act to balance out Brianís happiness, longevity, mental health, physical health, and reputation. There are so many wonderful people who love and care for Brian right now: Itís a slap in the face to each and every one of them to infer that shady things take place in that camp. Brian is looked at and cared for by some of the worlds best doctors and mental health providers. Hell, his whole current world was given a microscopic view by Bill Polhad and others for the film Love and Mercy. If anything drastically unhealthy were taking place in this organization it would most certainly would have come to light in a big way by now.
I just want to go back to this post for a second and say: yeah. I remember when I was 15 or so reading the '80s Brian/Landy piece in Rolling Stone and thinking 'something's really not right with this.' It was pretty obvious. Someone who's been circulating as much as BW has lately? You couldn't hide that sort of deal.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: 18thofMay on April 06, 2016, 08:43:37 PM
I really honestly don't understand your motivation is Cam. What is at your centre? What drives you?

Cam?

I'm fine, thanks for your concern.  Did you have a Beach Boys question or comment?
Cam thanks for letting me and subsequently those that read and participate on this board know that you are "fine". Although the fact that you are indeed fine may be relevant to you, it has no relevance to what I asked you. So please again if I may.
Pertaining to your motivation ;What is at your centre? What drives you?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cam Mott on April 06, 2016, 08:56:16 PM
I really honestly don't understand your motivation is Cam. What is at your centre? What drives you?

Cam?

I'm fine, thanks for your concern.  Did you have a Beach Boys question or comment?
Cam thanks for letting me and subsequently those that read and participate on this board know that you are "fine". Although the fact that you are indeed fine may be relevant to you, it has no relevance to what I asked you. So please again if I may.
Pertaining to your motivation ;What is at your centre? What drives you?


And your question has no relevance to the thread so thanks but no thanks.

Feel free to tell us your motivation, what is at your centre, what drives you if you wish, I guess.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on April 06, 2016, 08:56:39 PM

PS. This bullshit that Melinda is Landy part II needs to stop. Landy was a psychotic control freak who had people surrounding Brian 24/7. Today, Brian is under no such scrutiny and goes where he wants to go when he wants to go. In the past few years he has recorded and worked with some of the finest musicians in the industry, he has done successful tours that have left audience goers in tears and breathless at the beauty and grandeur. No matter how much some of you want to believe that Brianís world is black and white, it most certainly isnít. Is Brian living in a perfect world? Probably not! Remember that Brian is a very active/creative person with schizo-affective disorder, auditory hallucinations, and manic depression. Iím certain that it becomes a high wire act to balance out Brianís happiness, longevity, mental health, physical health, and reputation. There are so many wonderful people who love and care for Brian right now: Itís a slap in the face to each and every one of them to infer that shady things take place in that camp. Brian is looked at and cared for by some of the worlds best doctors and mental health providers. Hell, his whole current world was given a microscopic view by Bill Polhad and others for the film Love and Mercy. If anything drastically unhealthy were taking place in this organization it would most certainly would have come to light in a big way by now.
I just want to go back to this post for a second and say: yeah. I remember when I was 15 or so reading the '80s Brian/Landy piece in Rolling Stone and thinking 'something's really not right with this.' It was pretty obvious. Someone who's been circulating as much as BW has lately? You couldn't hide that sort of deal.


ESPECIALLY in this day and age.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: 18thofMay on April 06, 2016, 09:07:03 PM
I really honestly don't understand your motivation is Cam. What is at your centre? What drives you?

Cam?

I'm fine, thanks for your concern.  Did you have a Beach Boys question or comment?
Cam thanks for letting me and subsequently those that read and participate on this board know that you are "fine". Although the fact that you are indeed fine may be relevant to you, it has no relevance to what I asked you. So please again if I may.
Pertaining to your motivation ;What is at your centre? What drives you?


And your question has no relevance to the thread so thanks but no thanks.

Feel free to tell us your motivation, what is at your centre, what drives you if you wish, I guess.
I was not active in this thread, I have not stated my opinion on the subject matter. I am merely intrigued at your responses and then became inquisitive as to how said responses are motivated. If I respond to posts it is normally a reflection of my inner thoughts, my centre, my beliefs if you will. I am intrigued at what drives you to continually post after post persist with a similar key motivatory factor which drives your input.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 06, 2016, 10:28:02 PM
I really honestly don't understand your motivation is Cam. What is at your centre? What drives you?

Cam?

I'm fine, thanks for your concern.  Did you have a Beach Boys question or comment?
Cam thanks for letting me and subsequently those that read and participate on this board know that you are "fine". Although the fact that you are indeed fine may be relevant to you, it has no relevance to what I asked you. So please again if I may.
Pertaining to your motivation ;What is at your centre? What drives you?


And your question has no relevance to the thread so thanks but no thanks.

Feel free to tell us your motivation, what is at your centre, what drives you if you wish, I guess.
I was not active in this thread, I have not stated my opinion on the subject matter. I am merely intrigued at your responses and then became inquisitive as to how said responses are motivated. If I respond to posts it is normally a reflection of my inner thoughts, my centre, my beliefs if you will. I am intrigued at what drives you to continually post after post persist with a similar key motivatory factor which drives your input.

deleted


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Smilin Ed H on April 07, 2016, 12:07:32 AM
An insider who we all like? An honoured guest but not AGD? Narrows it down to about 5 or 6. These 'issues', real or not, have been hinted at in published works, you know...


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on April 07, 2016, 12:17:49 AM
Seeing as I'm neither an honoured guest nor universally adored, I was never in the frame. Bizarre.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Niko on April 07, 2016, 12:40:14 AM
Do what I do and pretend cam doesn't exist... Because his posts really are like if Ted Cruz were a beach boys fan  :-D


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cam Mott on April 07, 2016, 04:02:45 AM
I wonder what makes some posters want to be so insolent on a Beach Boys message board but maybe it's another thing we will never know.



Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cam Mott on April 07, 2016, 04:09:33 AM
Seeing as I'm neither an honoured guest nor universally adored, I was never in the frame. Bizarre.

You're a universally adored honored guest in our hearts.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on April 07, 2016, 04:33:10 AM
Seeing as I'm neither an honoured guest nor universally adored, I was never in the frame. Bizarre.

You're a universally adored honored guest in our hearts.

There you go again ::),, please speak for yourself.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cam Mott on April 07, 2016, 04:46:18 AM
Seeing as I'm neither an honoured guest nor universally adored, I was never in the frame. Bizarre.

You're a universally adored honored guest in our hearts.

There you go again ::),, please speak for yourself.

You're a universally adored honored guest in my heart too.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Smilin Ed H on April 07, 2016, 04:55:21 AM
Seeing as I'm neither an honoured guest nor universally adored, I was never in the frame. Bizarre.

You're a universally adored honored guest in our hearts.

That's what I meant.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 07, 2016, 06:45:36 AM
I'm pretty sure it was not specified that it's an honored guest.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 07, 2016, 09:49:49 AM
I don't think public guessing, with the potential of dragging uninvolved people's names though the mud, is nice.
For your private guessing pleasure, I will point out that Cincinnati Kid's "we all like" comment was referring to his intermediate source, not the original.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on April 07, 2016, 10:01:59 AM
Quote
I don't think public guessing, with the potential of dragging uninvolved people's names though the mud, is nice.

I strongly agree.

Also, this thread is supposed to be about Brian's upcoming book, and it'd be ace if talk turned back to that. The other topic, again, is currently being discussed and will be addressed, and that is a guarantee.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 07, 2016, 10:12:16 AM
Brian is very ambiguous. It's very hard sometimes to figure out his true feelings about something. This may be a form of honesty and self-understanding in that feelings are often complex and contain dichotomies.  Most of us feel a need to pin them down, choose part of the feeling that is 'right' and dismiss the rest, while perhaps Brian Wilson doesn't feel the need to. While that may be fine for him, it makes communicating any part of his feelings to others very difficult. Sometimes I just don't know what he's talking about. For this reason, I actually hope that someone who knows him very well and who is honestly interested in helping him communicate his truth is helping with the book.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Juice Brohnston on April 07, 2016, 10:38:01 AM
This thread has underlined some important facts. Brian has been married to Melinda for over 20 years. He has lived a productive life during this period and seems happy and realtively healthy.

I suppose there will always be speculation. Brian suffers from mental health issues, and has been taken advantage of continually throughout his life. The motivations have, for the most part, been financial (Murry-Sea of Tunes, Landy-exorbitant fees/publishing/will, Joe Thomas-allegations of unjust enrichment) It seems like the problems start when those who should be supporting Brian the family member, Brian the person, or Brian the artist, start to get involved in his finances.

Husband and wife is a different thing alltogether, there would be an expectation of some sort of financial co-relationship.  If there are people who have an axe to grind, perhaps because of lost access to Brian, it's easy for them to start to depict Melinda in a certain light.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 07, 2016, 10:43:30 AM
This thread has underlined some important facts. Brian has been married to Melinda for over 20 years. He has lived a productive life during this period and seems happy and realtively healthy.

I suppose there will always be speculation. Brian suffers from mental health issues, and has been taken advantage of continually throughout his life. The motivations have, for the most part, been financial (Murry-Sea of Tunes, Landy-exorbitant fees/publishing/will, Joe Thomas-allegations of unjust enrichment) It seems like the problems start when those who should be supporting Brian the family member, Brian the person, or Brian the artist, start to get involved in his finances.

Husband and wife is a different thing alltogether, there would be an expectation of some sort of financial co-relationship.  If there are people who have an axe to grind, perhaps because of lost access to Brian, it's easy for them to start to depict Melinda in a certain light.
Great post.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Empire Of Love on April 07, 2016, 12:13:46 PM
This thread has underlined some important facts. Brian has been married to Melinda for over 20 years. He has lived a productive life during this period and seems happy and realtively healthy.

I suppose there will always be speculation. Brian suffers from mental health issues, and has been taken advantage of continually throughout his life. The motivations have, for the most part, been financial (Murry-Sea of Tunes, Landy-exorbitant fees/publishing/will, Joe Thomas-allegations of unjust enrichment) It seems like the problems start when those who should be supporting Brian the family member, Brian the person, or Brian the artist, start to get involved in his finances.

Husband and wife is a different thing alltogether, there would be an expectation of some sort of financial co-relationship.  If there are people who have an axe to grind, perhaps because of lost access to Brian, it's easy for them to start to depict Melinda in a certain light.

Exactly.  It is common in marriage for finances to be shared and it is often the case that one party benefits substantially more than the other from a *financial* aspect.  From all accounts (other than those that are rather suspicious) Melinda is worth her weight in gold, and then some.  As to the second statement, you hit the nail on the head.  From everything I have seen, the negative comments in regards to Melinda being Landy 2.0 come from people who have been left out of the party, one way or another.

EoL


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: GhostyTMRS on April 07, 2016, 12:39:34 PM
I don't think public guessing, with the potential of dragging uninvolved people's names though the mud, is nice.

This X1000.

In the interest of fairness, neither is the potentially libelous accusation that certain users are "on Mike's payroll" or part of a secret cabal. That accusation has been bandied about numerous times on this board with none of the accusers having a shred of evidence that any of it is true, nor have they been held accountable for those accusations. I get that it's a way to try to shut down an argument but it's counterproductive and doesn't advance any discussions. There's a way for users to indulge in their private Brianistas -vs- Loveites dogpiles (although I have no idea what joy any fans can possibly take from that) without crossing the line.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: mojoman3061 on April 07, 2016, 12:53:56 PM
Brian is very ambiguous. It's very hard sometimes to figure out his true feelings about something. This may be a form of honesty and self-understanding in that feelings are often complex and contain dichotomies.  Most of us feel a need to pin them down, choose part of the feeling that is 'right' and dismiss the rest, while perhaps Brian Wilson doesn't feel the need to. While that may be fine for him, it makes communicating any part of his feelings to others very difficult. Sometimes I just don't know what he's talking about. For this reason, I actually hope that someone who knows him very well and who is honestly interested in helping him communicate his truth is helping with the book.
This is also a great post, one of two in a row in the same thread.

As Emily says, "Sometimes I just don't know what he's talking about."  That may have as much to do with the fact that Brian has been interviewed a bazillion times, with any number of questions repeated for the half-bazillionth time.  Sometimes he may give an odd answer just to get to the next question.

But a book is a different animal, it seems to me.  I can't imagine him sitting down and writing about himself with no one to help him organize it.  Celebrity autobiographies used to have credits like "My Life Story, by Famous Celebrity, as told to Someone Else," in which Someone Else is a professional writer who organizes the information given by Famous Celebrity into a coherent volume.  Maybe Someone Else gave Famous Celebrity a list of questions and FC answered them into a tape recorder.  For this to work out well for Brian Wilson, I hope for the same thing that Emily does.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 07, 2016, 12:59:43 PM
I don't think public guessing, with the potential of dragging uninvolved people's names though the mud, is nice.

This X1000.

In the interest of fairness, neither is the potentially libelous accusation that certain users are "on Mike's payroll" or part of a secret cabal. That accusation has been bandied about numerous times on this board with none of the accusers having a shred of evidence that any of it is true, nor have they been held accountable for those accusations. I get that it's a way to try to shut down an argument but it's counterproductive and doesn't advance any discussions. There's a way for users to indulge in their private Brianistas -vs- Loveites dogpiles (although I have no idea what joy any fans can possibly take from that) without crossing the line.

IMO, being on payroll in some capacity could include, for example, a fan on a message board simply being verbally thanked by Mike, either directly or indirectly, by finding out via channels by "someone who would know" that Mike appreciates being defended by a specific person... those could be "payroll" enough to a big enough fanboy.  I certainly don't see that as being some nefarious accusation, nor does it strike me as being out of the bounds of a scenario that could actually happen. If I were Mike, I'd love and be grateful to the fans who fought to the death to defend every single itty bitty action I'd ever done.

There are other examples in fan communities of other bands where a small handful of rogue fan(s) will go to the ends of the earth to defend a band member (who like Mike has many haters), and in an example that I know of, that fan wasn't getting paid in cash, but simply being thanked and/or acknowledged in some fashion... and that motivation seemed to be enough "payroll" for that uber fan.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: GhostyTMRS on April 07, 2016, 01:11:18 PM
I don't think public guessing, with the potential of dragging uninvolved people's names though the mud, is nice.

This X1000.

In the interest of fairness, neither is the potentially libelous accusation that certain users are "on Mike's payroll" or part of a secret cabal. That accusation has been bandied about numerous times on this board with none of the accusers having a shred of evidence that any of it is true, nor have they been held accountable for those accusations. I get that it's a way to try to shut down an argument but it's counterproductive and doesn't advance any discussions. There's a way for users to indulge in their private Brianistas -vs- Loveites dogpiles (although I have no idea what joy any fans can possibly take from that) without crossing the line.

IMO, being on payroll in some capacity could include, for example, a fan on a message board simply being verbally thanked by Mike, either directly or indirectly, by finding out via channels by "someone who would know" that Mike appreciates being defended by a specific person... those could be "payroll" enough to a big enough fanboy.  I certainly don't see that as being some nefarious accusation, nor does it strike me as being out of the bounds of a scenario that could actually happen. If I were Mike, I'd love and be grateful to the fans who fought to the death to defend every single itty bitty action I'd ever done.

There are other examples in fan communities of other bands where a small handful of rogue fan(s) will go to the ends of the earth to defend a band member (who like Mike has many haters), and in an example that I know of, that fan wasn't getting paid in cash, but simply being thanked and/or acknowledged in some fashion... and that motivation seemed to be enough "payroll" for that uber fan.

Payroll means money being exchanged. No two ways about it.

If you want to say "Oh, he or she is just saying this or that because Mike personally thanked him or whatever" and have the evidence to back that statement up then that is VERY different from accusations that people are being "paid" by Mike.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on April 07, 2016, 01:23:17 PM
I don't think public guessing, with the potential of dragging uninvolved people's names though the mud, is nice.

This X1000.

In the interest of fairness, neither is the potentially libelous accusation that certain users are "on Mike's payroll" or part of a secret cabal. That accusation has been bandied about numerous times on this board with none of the accusers having a shred of evidence that any of it is true, nor have they been held accountable for those accusations.


That would be potentially libelous if proven untrue, yes, which is one of the reasons why I try to steer conversations away from that.

On a related subject, there are other potentially libelous things that have been posted too, and that is currently under investigation.

That said...

I would really like to return this back to the discussion of Brian's upcoming book. Why every single discussion of anything related to something new Brian's putting out always gets sidetracked is beyond me. I'm dreading the release of Mike's book for mostly the same reason.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Empire Of Love on April 07, 2016, 01:29:12 PM
I don't think public guessing, with the potential of dragging uninvolved people's names though the mud, is nice.

This X1000.

In the interest of fairness, neither is the potentially libelous accusation that certain users are "on Mike's payroll" or part of a secret cabal. That accusation has been bandied about numerous times on this board with none of the accusers having a shred of evidence that any of it is true, nor have they been held accountable for those accusations. I get that it's a way to try to shut down an argument but it's counterproductive and doesn't advance any discussions. There's a way for users to indulge in their private Brianistas -vs- Loveites dogpiles (although I have no idea what joy any fans can possibly take from that) without crossing the line.

IMO, being on payroll in some capacity could include, for example, a fan on a message board simply being verbally thanked by Mike, either directly or indirectly, by finding out via channels by "someone who would know" that Mike appreciates being defended by a specific person... those could be "payroll" enough to a big enough fanboy.  I certainly don't see that as being some nefarious accusation, nor does it strike me as being out of the bounds of a scenario that could actually happen. If I were Mike, I'd love and be grateful to the fans who fought to the death to defend every single itty bitty action I'd ever done.

There are other examples in fan communities of other bands where a small handful of rogue fan(s) will go to the ends of the earth to defend a band member (who like Mike has many haters), and in an example that I know of, that fan wasn't getting paid in cash, but simply being thanked and/or acknowledged in some fashion... and that motivation seemed to be enough "payroll" for that uber fan.

Payroll means money being exchanged. No two ways about it.

If you want to say "Oh, he or she is just saying this or that because Mike personally thanked him or whatever" and have the evidence to back that statement up then that is VERY different from accusations that people are being "paid" by Mike.

And asking a question as to whether or not someone is on another's payroll is VERY different from an accusation.

EoL


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: GhostyTMRS on April 07, 2016, 01:33:14 PM
I don't think public guessing, with the potential of dragging uninvolved people's names though the mud, is nice.

This X1000.

In the interest of fairness, neither is the potentially libelous accusation that certain users are "on Mike's payroll" or part of a secret cabal. That accusation has been bandied about numerous times on this board with none of the accusers having a shred of evidence that any of it is true, nor have they been held accountable for those accusations.


That would be potentially libelous if proven untrue, yes, which is one of the reasons why I try to steer conversations away from that.

On a related subject, there are other potentially libelous things that have been posted too, and that is currently under investigation.

That said...

I would really like to return this back to the discussion of Brian's upcoming book. Why every single discussion of anything related to something new Brian's putting out always gets sidetracked is beyond me. I'm dreading the release of Mike's book for mostly the same reason.

Agreed. The only contract the Beach Boys have with their fans is the product they release. Love it, like it or hate it. Big deal. Why some fans can't focus on the music and instead choose to get swallowed up into the twilight years of the ongoing Beach Boys soap opera (a good chunk of it being fan-created anyway) is beyond me. I'd like to see the decorum on this forum raised.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on April 07, 2016, 01:37:29 PM
I don't think public guessing, with the potential of dragging uninvolved people's names though the mud, is nice.

This X1000.

In the interest of fairness, neither is the potentially libelous accusation that certain users are "on Mike's payroll" or part of a secret cabal. That accusation has been bandied about numerous times on this board with none of the accusers having a shred of evidence that any of it is true, nor have they been held accountable for those accusations. I get that it's a way to try to shut down an argument but it's counterproductive and doesn't advance any discussions. There's a way for users to indulge in their private Brianistas -vs- Loveites dogpiles (although I have no idea what joy any fans can possibly take from that) without crossing the line.

Speaking as one routinely accused of being on Mike's payroll since late September 2012 (and it's odd that I've been a cheerleader for Brian since summer 1975 without once being equally accused...), it doesn't bother me personally* - equally because I know that's not the case, and because those yelling the loudest are generally considered figures of fun and ridicule - but it does annoy because it derails the overall exchange. Can't argue with a closed mind. Too many potentially good threads devolve into either Mike v Brian or Love-kicking fests, and I know that frustrates the majority of posters here. It's no coincidence that several noted contributors have been silent for some time.

As for the current "sources" farrago... unnecessary, on several levels. If you have sources, don't flaunt them unless you can name them. All rather unedifying.

[* granted, the judicious application of The Hickey Script has aided immeasurably]


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Smilin Ed H on April 08, 2016, 01:21:42 AM
I don't think public guessing, with the potential of dragging uninvolved people's names though the mud, is nice.
For your private guessing pleasure, I will point out that Cincinnati Kid's "we all like" comment was referring to his intermediate source, not the original.

Yeah, you're right. Apologies to all. DElete the post, Billy, please.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Smilin Ed H on April 08, 2016, 01:23:46 AM
I don't think public guessing, with the potential of dragging uninvolved people's names though the mud, is nice.

This X1000.

In the interest of fairness, neither is the potentially libelous accusation that certain users are "on Mike's payroll" or part of a secret cabal. That accusation has been bandied about numerous times on this board with none of the accusers having a shred of evidence that any of it is true, nor have they been held accountable for those accusations. I get that it's a way to try to shut down an argument but it's counterproductive and doesn't advance any discussions. There's a way for users to indulge in their private Brianistas -vs- Loveites dogpiles (although I have no idea what joy any fans can possibly take from that) without crossing the line.

Amen.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 08, 2016, 06:15:49 AM
I don't think public guessing, with the potential of dragging uninvolved people's names though the mud, is nice.
For your private guessing pleasure, I will point out that Cincinnati Kid's "we all like" comment was referring to his intermediate source, not the original.

Yeah, you're right. Apologies to all. DElete the post, Billy, please.
You didn't raise any names. I couldn't tell who you were guessing. I wouldn't worry about it.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 08, 2016, 06:36:39 AM
rab:  It wasn't AGD.  It's someone I think all of us like very much.  If he wants to reveal his name he can, but if not, I understand that too.  We both now know the info we received is incorrect and that's all that matters to me at this point. 

So if you got bad information, who gave all of you the bad information to begin with? And if the information is bad, why doesn't the person responsible correct it here?

Who knows how many people this false information was spread to...I think the best course of action is to make the correction public so we all get the facts straight.
Mods,
I know you want to move this thread along and you're right to, except one thng: I don't think it's right to publicly speculate on who the source was; and I know you're working on things; but some false information was spread, but it hasn't been said what that information was. If someone other than The Cincinnati Kid received that information, they may not have connected it with this discussion and they may still believe it to be true. I think it would be appropriate for C Kid to specify what the information was so that the public influence the information has had can be corrected.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on April 08, 2016, 06:57:54 AM
I can't help but find it anything other than deeply amusing that the poster doing the lion's share of the stirring is someone who recently flounced off in hugely public manner, vowing never to return. Epic fail.  ;D


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Micha on April 08, 2016, 07:09:53 AM
Too many potentially good threads devolve into either Mike v Brian or Love-kicking fests, and I know that frustrates the majority of posters here.

This board has become a depressing place.


I would really like to return this back to the discussion of Brian's upcoming book.

You can forget about that right away. No hope. When Mike's book come out, better shut down the whole board for 3-4 months, put up just a sign: "Back January 1st 2017".


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: KDS on April 08, 2016, 07:14:09 AM
I don't think public guessing, with the potential of dragging uninvolved people's names though the mud, is nice.

This X1000.

In the interest of fairness, neither is the potentially libelous accusation that certain users are "on Mike's payroll" or part of a secret cabal. That accusation has been bandied about numerous times on this board with none of the accusers having a shred of evidence that any of it is true, nor have they been held accountable for those accusations. I get that it's a way to try to shut down an argument but it's counterproductive and doesn't advance any discussions. There's a way for users to indulge in their private Brianistas -vs- Loveites dogpiles (although I have no idea what joy any fans can possibly take from that) without crossing the line.

Speaking as one routinely accused of being on Mike's payroll since late September 2012 (and it's odd that I've been a cheerleader for Brian since summer 1975 without once being equally accused...), it doesn't bother me personally* - equally because I know that's not the case, and because those yelling the loudest are generally considered figures of fun and ridicule - but it does annoy because it derails the overall exchange. Can't argue with a closed mind. Too many potentially good threads devolve into either Mike v Brian or Love-kicking fests, and I know that frustrates the majority of posters here. It's no coincidence that several noted contributors have been silent for some time.

As for the current "sources" farrago... unnecessary, on several levels. If you have sources, don't flaunt them unless you can name them. All rather unedifying.

[* granted, the judicious application of The Hickey Script has aided immeasurably]

Yes!!!  The Mike v Brian stuff does get very old.  I think I'm going to stay away for awhile after Sept 13th.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 08, 2016, 07:29:47 AM
?  ???  A poster has said he has been told false information that has to do with Melinda. It's been implied that that false information has been received by other posters as well. It's not anti-Mike to want anti-Melinda gossip cleared up.  I don't understand thinking that trying to clear up misinformation is either depressing or stirring things up. I'd rather think that someone spreading misinformation, if done intentionally, is depressing and stirring. If accidentally, then that's not to be blamed, but not bothering to clean up your mess is.
Is it wrong for me to want to separate facts from gossip? Don't you guys want to do the same?
I fully understand wanting to put the topic to rest, but that's hard to do when there's a big question mark about the credibility of what we're reading.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: KDS on April 08, 2016, 07:37:49 AM
?  ???  A poster has said he has been told false information that has to do with Melinda. It's been implied that that false information has been received by other posters as well. It's not anti-Mike to want anti-Melinda gossip cleared up.  I don't understand thinking that trying to clear up misinformation is either depressing or stirring things up. I'd rather think that someone spreading misinformation, if done intentionally, is depressing and stirring. If accidentally, then that's not to be blamed, but not bothering to clean up your mess is.
Is it wrong for me to want to separate facts from gossip? Don't you guys want to do the same?
I fully understand wanting to put the topic to rest, but that's hard to do when there's a big question mark about the credibility of what we're reading.

Emily,

I can understand trying to clear up the ridiculous anti-Melinda stuff. 

But, I'm agreeing with AGD in general, about how many threads eventually devolve into Mike Love bashing.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 08, 2016, 07:39:07 AM
?  ???  A poster has said he has been told false information that has to do with Melinda. It's been implied that that false information has been received by other posters as well. It's not anti-Mike to want anti-Melinda gossip cleared up.  I don't understand thinking that trying to clear up misinformation is either depressing or stirring things up. I'd rather think that someone spreading misinformation, if done intentionally, is depressing and stirring. If accidentally, then that's not to be blamed, but not bothering to clean up your mess is.
Is it wrong for me to want to separate facts from gossip? Don't you guys want to do the same?
I fully understand wanting to put the topic to rest, but that's hard to do when there's a big question mark about the credibility of what we're reading.

Emily,

I can understand trying to clear up the ridiculous anti-Melinda stuff. 

But, I'm agreeing with AGD in general, about how many threads eventually devolve into Mike Love bashing.
Fair enough.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: KDS on April 08, 2016, 07:41:39 AM
But, getting back on topic, I'm not sure how anyone can say that Melinda's presence in Brian's life has been anything but positive.  And I'm sure the book will reflect that. 


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: bb4ever on April 08, 2016, 07:44:13 AM
I am a relative newbie on this board and I have learned so much about my beloved Beach Boys from all the knowledgeable posters.  With that being said.....I do admit that I tend to gloss over/speed read through all the Brian vs. Mike mud slinging.  We all probably have our somewhat 'favorite' Beach Boy, and that is as it should be.   But, seriously?  Can't we all learn a lesson from Carl Wilson (my fav) and Brian Wilson?  It's called accepting people for who they are.  Each Beach Boy brought SOMETHING to the band or they wouldn't have been there.  It's not like they were afraid to fire people -- including their own family members when needed.  If you can't stand Mike, try to emulate Brian.  He has moved on with his own life, his own band, and doesn't appear to waste his precious time harboring any ill feelings or negative thoughts.  

I work in a public school system and we have a general rule of thumb:  We don't respond to 'anonymous' complaints from people.  If it is a valid enough point and , the person is being honest, and they want a response, they should provide their name.  Same should pertain on this board when it comes to rumors and innuendos.



Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 08, 2016, 07:46:26 AM
I'm sort of sorry to have brought it back up, but it was itching the back of my brain. I should have put my above comment in a PM to the mods and let the thread go on on the original topic. I will do so from now on.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: filledeplage on April 08, 2016, 08:07:22 AM
Too many potentially good threads devolve into either Mike v Brian or Love-kicking fests, and I know that frustrates the majority of posters here.

This board has become a depressing place.


I would really like to return this back to the discussion of Brian's upcoming book.

You can forget about that right away. No hope. When Mike's book come out, better shut down the whole board for 3-4 months, put up just a sign: "Back January 1st 2017".

Micha - The sign could say "Gone Fishin'"  :lol


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on April 08, 2016, 08:36:04 AM
Brian's book will be, at the very worst, roughly ten orders of magnitude better than the 1991 mess. Will it be interesting to all here ? Of course. Will it be a totally balanced recounting of his life to date ? Of course not: no autobiography since the invention of the genre has been that. I'm fascinated to see what it'll be like, and how it's received here, just as I will be for Mike's book, given the same caveats. Going to be an interesting fall.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: KDS on April 08, 2016, 08:47:10 AM
Brian's book will be, at the very worst, roughly ten orders of magnitude better than the 1991 mess. Will it be interesting to all here ? Of course. Will it be a totally balanced recounting of his life to date ? Of course not: no autobiography since the invention of the genre has been that. I'm fascinated to see what it'll be like, and how it's received here, just as I will be for Mike's book, given the same caveats. Going to be an interesting fall.

I'll be interested to see if Landy's......er..um....Brian's 1991 book will even get a mention Brian's forthcoming book. 


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on April 08, 2016, 09:17:35 AM
The handling of the whole Landy II period will be fascinating. I'm also wondering if the other 2004 album will rate a mention...


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: SMiLE Brian on April 08, 2016, 09:37:26 AM
Same for the post Kokomo ego trip and SIP in Mike's book. >:D


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 08, 2016, 09:41:51 AM
The handling of the whole Landy II period will be fascinating. I'm also wondering if the other 2004 album will rate a mention...

I would be interested to know more biographical information on Landy himself. Maybe someone will write a bio of him someday. Yes, he was a giant creep (who perhaps initially had a few positive attributes that were blotted out by his own insanity and greed), but what made him that way? Maybe it's a bizarre story/person to be curious about their history, but then again, I find it fascinating to watch documentaries about serial killers.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 08, 2016, 10:16:50 AM
The handling of the whole Landy II period will be fascinating. I'm also wondering if the other 2004 album will rate a mention...

I would be interested to know more biographical information on Landy himself. Maybe someone will write a bio of him someday. Yes, he was a giant creep (who perhaps initially had a few positive attributes that were blotted out by his own insanity and greed), but what made him that way? Maybe it's a bizarre story/person to be curious about their history, but then again, I find it fascinating to watch documentaries about serial killers.
Not much out there. George Benson's autobiography has a half-dozen pages depicting a young Gene Landy on the make.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Juice Brohnston on April 08, 2016, 10:30:33 AM
Wouldn't it be nice if there was a retelling of vomiting on Ralph's shoes. :thud


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 08, 2016, 10:35:32 AM
The handling of the whole Landy II period will be fascinating. I'm also wondering if the other 2004 album will rate a mention...

I would be interested to know more biographical information on Landy himself. Maybe someone will write a bio of him someday. Yes, he was a giant creep (who perhaps initially had a few positive attributes that were blotted out by his own insanity and greed), but what made him that way? Maybe it's a bizarre story/person to be curious about their history, but then again, I find it fascinating to watch documentaries about serial killers.
Not much out there. George Benson's autobiography has a half-dozen pages depicting a young Gene Landy on the make.

Interesting. Thanks for the info, Emily. I'll have to check that out. I suppose the full story of why ol' Land-O'Lakes became the guy he was may remain a mystery.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on April 08, 2016, 10:37:26 AM
The 1986 Gaines book has a little more detail on him.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 08, 2016, 10:46:41 AM
The 1986 Gaines book has a little more detail on him.

I've got to re-read that book too. It's been ages.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Vernon Surfer on April 08, 2016, 10:48:45 AM
Say what you may about Landy (and there is indeed much negative aspects to him), however I wonder if Brian would still be blessing our world with his presence without Landy.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered on April 08, 2016, 10:56:44 AM
Say what you may about Landy (and there is indeed much negative aspects to him), however I wonder if Brian would still be blessing our world with his presence without Landy.
Landy was just as responsible for Brian almost ceasing to bless our world by overloading him with pills.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: KDS on April 08, 2016, 11:02:33 AM
Say what you may about Landy (and there is indeed much negative aspects to him), however I wonder if Brian would still be blessing our world with his presence without Landy.

He wouldn't.  He likely would've joined Dennis at some point without Landy.  All three Wilson Bros would've been gone before the turn of the century. 

In the words of NPP song "started out as a good thing, turned into a headache." 


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 08, 2016, 11:05:14 AM
I guess this discussion has been had multiple times, but I still disagree. Anyone given the power could have 'saved Brian's life' to the degree Landy did. No skill was needed. So, the people who decided to give someone the power to do it 'saved his life'. They could've found any guy on the street and said, "we'll give you a gazillion dollars a year to keep him alive" and he would have stayed alive and most likely have been better off.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 08, 2016, 11:07:59 AM
Say what you may about Landy (and there is indeed much negative aspects to him), however I wonder if Brian would still be blessing our world with his presence without Landy.

He wouldn't.  He likely would've joined Dennis at some point without Landy.  All three Wilson Bros would've been gone before the turn of the century.  

In the words of NPP song "started out as a good thing, turned into a headache."  

Being well aware of the scumbaggery and damage that Landy later inflicted on Brian... It has occurred to me, as I'm sure it's occurred to others (including, I'd imagine the BB's family members), that if Brian had been on the same self-destructive path for just one more year without Landy - or someone else who could have gotten results with getting Brian sober - being in the picture, the timing would have overlapped with the timeline of Dennis passing away... and the ways in which an off-the-wagon Brian might likely have reacted to that tragic event could very, very likely have been catastrophic to himself. If there's one thing we can be thankful for, it's for the timing of Brian's sobriety in relation to Denny's passing.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 08, 2016, 11:19:45 AM
I guess this discussion has been had multiple times, but I still disagree. Anyone given the power could have 'saved Brian's life' to the degree Landy did. No skill was needed. So, the people who decided to give someone the power to do it 'saved his life'. They could've found any guy on the street and said, "we'll give you a gazillion dollars a year to keep him alive" and he would have stayed alive and most likely have been better off.

At that point in Brian's life, it's difficult to determine of "any guy off the street" could have done that. If Brian could have figured a way out of the grasp of someone with as unorthodox tactics as Landy (someone who didn't deeply scare him, preying on his fear of Murry-like domineering figures), Brian likely would have snuck out and fell back off the wagon, I would tend to think.

I don't know what results could have been gotten in 1982 if a team of doctors at UCLA (or a mental health facility/sanitarium - I hate that word, but that's probably an accurate word for the era) could have gotten either, by adhering to the official "rules" and not practicing all sorts of unorthodox manipulation. Would Brian have stayed put and gotten sober, and remained that way? I don't know the ins and outs of how a more traditional non-Landy approach during the early 1980s, how that could have played out... but I don't think it's a given that someone else could have been found.

That's not to say that someone else (or a team of folks) couldn't have been found on the planet who could have saved Brian. But who knows who or where that person/people would have been. As a hypothetical, a person who could have gotten results could have been a non-scumbag doctor somewhere in Sweden, for all we know. But how the family, or anyone for that matter, was supposed to magically "know" the location of such a doctor, or to be able to find someone who would get results, would ultimately have been a matter of chance, and trial and error. I know they tried many people, and the one other non-Landy doctor who got results died in a rock-climbing accident.

I just don't think we can conclusively say that anyone off the street could have done it, or even a seasoned medical team at UCLA. Possibly, but possibly not. I do, however, think that there WERE people other than Landy on planet earth at the time in 1982 who could have gotten results.  They just weren't necessarily easily findable.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on April 08, 2016, 11:26:16 AM
One of Landy's stipulations for taking Brian on again was that he had total control over Brian's life. Given that degree of carte blanche, I think pretty much anyone would have saved his life.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 08, 2016, 11:30:43 AM
I guess this discussion has been had multiple times, but I still disagree. Anyone given the power could have 'saved Brian's life' to the degree Landy did. No skill was needed. So, the people who decided to give someone the power to do it 'saved his life'. They could've found any guy on the street and said, "we'll give you a gazillion dollars a year to keep him alive" and he would have stayed alive and most likely have been better off.

At that point in Brian's life, it's difficult to determine of "any guy off the street" could have done that. If Brian could have figured a way out of the grasp of someone with as unorthodox tactics as Landy (someone who didn't deeply scare him, preying on his fear of Murry-like domineering figures), Brian likely would have snuck out and fell back off the wagon, I would tend to think.

I don't know what results could have been gotten in 1982 if a team of doctors at UCLA (or a mental health facility/sanitarium - I hate that word, but that's probably an accurate word for the era) could have gotten either, by adhering to the official "rules" and not practicing all sorts of unorthodox manipulation. Would Brian have stayed put and gotten sober, and remained that way? I don't know the ins and outs of how a more traditional non-Landy approach during the early 1980s, how that could have played out... but I don't think it's a given that someone else could have been found.

That's not to say that someone else (or a team of folks) couldn't have been found on the planet who could have saved Brian. But who knows who or where that person/people would have been. As a hypothetical, a person who could have gotten results could have been a non-scumbag doctor somewhere in Sweden, for all we know. But how the family, or anyone for that matter, was supposed to magically "know" the location of such a doctor, or to be able to find someone who would get results, would ultimately have been a matter of chance, and trial and error. I know they tried many people, and the one other non-Landy doctor who got results died in a rock-climbing accident.

I just don't think we can conclusively say that anyone off the street could have done it, or even a seasoned medical team at UCLA. Possibly, but possibly not. I do, however, think that there WERE people other than Landy on planet earth at the time in 1982 who could have gotten results.  They just weren't necessarily easily findable.
As far as I can tell, the practices of Landy that actually benefitted Brian were restricted to hiring a bunch of guys to control him around the clock. Give me the money and I can do that.
The guy who died was getting results the right way.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 08, 2016, 11:42:00 AM
I guess this discussion has been had multiple times, but I still disagree. Anyone given the power could have 'saved Brian's life' to the degree Landy did. No skill was needed. So, the people who decided to give someone the power to do it 'saved his life'. They could've found any guy on the street and said, "we'll give you a gazillion dollars a year to keep him alive" and he would have stayed alive and most likely have been better off.

At that point in Brian's life, it's difficult to determine of "any guy off the street" could have done that. If Brian could have figured a way out of the grasp of someone with as unorthodox tactics as Landy (someone who didn't deeply scare him, preying on his fear of Murry-like domineering figures), Brian likely would have snuck out and fell back off the wagon, I would tend to think.

I don't know what results could have been gotten in 1982 if a team of doctors at UCLA (or a mental health facility/sanitarium - I hate that word, but that's probably an accurate word for the era) could have gotten either, by adhering to the official "rules" and not practicing all sorts of unorthodox manipulation. Would Brian have stayed put and gotten sober, and remained that way? I don't know the ins and outs of how a more traditional non-Landy approach during the early 1980s, how that could have played out... but I don't think it's a given that someone else could have been found.

That's not to say that someone else (or a team of folks) couldn't have been found on the planet who could have saved Brian. But who knows who or where that person/people would have been. As a hypothetical, a person who could have gotten results could have been a non-scumbag doctor somewhere in Sweden, for all we know. But how the family, or anyone for that matter, was supposed to magically "know" the location of such a doctor, or to be able to find someone who would get results, would ultimately have been a matter of chance, and trial and error. I know they tried many people, and the one other non-Landy doctor who got results died in a rock-climbing accident.

I just don't think we can conclusively say that anyone off the street could have done it, or even a seasoned medical team at UCLA. Possibly, but possibly not. I do, however, think that there WERE people other than Landy on planet earth at the time in 1982 who could have gotten results.  They just weren't necessarily easily findable.
As far as I can tell, the practices of Landy that actually benefitted Brian were restricted to hiring a bunch of guys to control him around the clock. Give me the money and I can do that.
The guy who died was getting results the right way.

Right, I agree that the guy who died was probably getting results the right way. Although I don't know much about what his "program" entailed. Obviously he was doing something right that clicked with Brian (in a way that other non-Landy doctors that were tried out did not)... but I am unaware of the details.

That said, I think a doctor's care and program (in a situation such as this) is a very specific kind of thing that either works or it doesn't. Landy *did* give Brian some "privileges", like letting him smoke the occasional joint, or things like that. Maybe that type of thing kept Brian able to deal with other BS, just as an example. Take that out of the equation by putting a different doctor in charge... maybe Brian freaks out and has some other awful episode. Again, just an example.

Landy's tactics ultimately became extremely, extremely troubling and disgusting, but I believe that something he did at the onset of Brian's care in 1982, whatever way in which he manipulated Brian to get sober, to get through to Brian that sobriety was something that Brian needed to do, and for Brian to be fully aware that he was very nearly going to have been the next Elvis, obviously clicked in Brian's head. Somehow, Landy got through to Brian mentally and emotionally on some deep level... 24-hour around-the-clock surf nazis aside. I think it's not logical to say that any old group of doltish thugs around the clock would have unquestionably just gotten results for years.

Something Landy did worked - at first. I'm not condoning Landy's later actions... I think he proved himself to be a huge scumbag, without question. But there's no evidence that "any" doctor or "any" group of people surrounding Brian would have gotten results.  Some other doctors could have likely gotten results, but I'm sure that another group of other doctors would have failed. The same conversation could be had about Dennis, and how difficult it would have been for any number of doctors to have had success getting him on the wagon using conventional methods.

Landy also seemingly tried really hard to convince Brian (and I think he did successfully convince him at the time) that he (Landy) himself was Brian's friend, who was going above and beyond out of love for Brian. I think Brian believed that for a time, and maybe still believes it in part... and perhaps that knowledge (even if it was a lie or a half-truth), feeling that a "cool" friend doctor dude was on his side, helped Brian better able to stay sober. Landy's manipulative tactics were very specific, and while other doctors could surely have found a more legit and ethical way of getting results, I'm sure others would have not worked.  The "any" doctor could have done it with 24-hour care doesn't really hold water, IMO.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 08, 2016, 11:54:07 AM
Maybe you're right that he did something special and unique and I don't see it. I'm inclined to think of proof from the other direction though - you'd have to prove to me that Landy did something special and unique before I give him accolades, rather than I give him accolades until it's disproven that he deserves them.
While I'm a terribly PC person, I don't think everyone should get a trophy just for showing up.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 08, 2016, 12:02:16 PM
Maybe you're right that he did something special and unique and I don't see it. I'm inclined to think of proof from the other direction though - you'd have to prove to me that Landy did something special and unique before I give him accolades, rather than I give him accolades until it's disproven that he deserves them.
While I'm a terribly PC person, I don't think everyone should get a trophy just for showing up.

Please know... I'm certainly not trying to give Landy any "accolades"! My true and absolute hatred of a significant amount of the man's actions is real, but I can also see how there were some things that worked for a time. I wonder how your opinion (or public opinion in general) would be different if Landy got Brian sober in 1982, and then (heaven forbid, just stating this for the sake of argument) both of them tragically perished in an accident a couple years later, before the real awful scumbaggery started. It's hard to separate the awful stuff from the less awful stuff, but I think it's possible to believe that some elements of Landy's initial plan "worked" and to still not give him "accolades" or any type of retroactive award.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 08, 2016, 12:09:12 PM
Maybe you're right that he did something special and unique and I don't see it. I'm inclined to think of proof from the other direction though - you'd have to prove to me that Landy did something special and unique before I give him accolades, rather than I give him accolades until it's disproven that he deserves them.
While I'm a terribly PC person, I don't think everyone should get a trophy just for showing up.

Please know... I'm certainly not trying to give Landy any "accolades"! My true and absolute hatred of a significant amount of the man's actions is real, but I can also see how there were some things that worked for a time. I wonder how you (or public opinion in general) would have been different if Landy got Brian sober in 1982, and then (heaven forbid, just stating this for the sake of argument) both of them tragically perished in an accident a couple years later, before the real awful scumbaggery started. It's hard to separate the awful stuff from the less awful stuff, but I think it's possible to believe that some elements of Landy's initial plan "worked" and to still not give him "accolades" or any type of retroactive award. 
In the scenario you depict, I'm sure my feelings would be different, but also my information would be different. But I read stuff from the first Landy period and consider it a destructive and degrading form of therapy. I would not argue with someone who said that the first Landy period contributed to any sense that BW needed to be saved during the second Landy period.
Having grown up surrounded by the mentally ill, some receiving good treatment, some not so good, I can only think of Landy's methodology across the board as destructive. The only benefit is that BW was separated from substances, but even the method of doing that probably contributed to his further mental deterioration, so Landy's practices that helped BW's physical health, even at the beginning, were simultaneously wreaking havoc on his mental health. And, again, I think the contribution to his physical health only required the capacity to force him to do or not do things. The attacks on his mental required special skills and those skills are what Landy had.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 08, 2016, 12:15:21 PM
Maybe you're right that he did something special and unique and I don't see it. I'm inclined to think of proof from the other direction though - you'd have to prove to me that Landy did something special and unique before I give him accolades, rather than I give him accolades until it's disproven that he deserves them.
While I'm a terribly PC person, I don't think everyone should get a trophy just for showing up.

Please know... I'm certainly not trying to give Landy any "accolades"! My true and absolute hatred of a significant amount of the man's actions is real, but I can also see how there were some things that worked for a time. I wonder how you (or public opinion in general) would have been different if Landy got Brian sober in 1982, and then (heaven forbid, just stating this for the sake of argument) both of them tragically perished in an accident a couple years later, before the real awful scumbaggery started. It's hard to separate the awful stuff from the less awful stuff, but I think it's possible to believe that some elements of Landy's initial plan "worked" and to still not give him "accolades" or any type of retroactive award.  
In the scenario you depict, I'm sure my feelings would be different, but also my information would be different. But I read stuff from the first Landy period and consider it a destructive and degrading form of therapy. I would not argue with someone who said that the first Landy period contributed to any sense that BW needed to be saved during the second Landy period.
Having grown up surrounded by the mentally ill, some receiving good treatment, some not so good, I can only think of Landy's methodology across the board as destructive. The only benefit is that BW was separated from substances, but even the method of doing that probably contributed to his further mental deterioration, so Landy's practices that helped BW's physical health, even at the beginning, were simultaneously wreaking havoc on his mental health. And, again, I think the contribution to his physical health only required the capacity to force him to do or not do things. The attacks on his mental required special skills and those skills are what Landy had.

I agree that the depths of how much damage Landy ultimately wreaked on Brian are incalculable, and I don't feel good about pointing out what I feel to be several isolated fortunate actions that Landy did which led to Brian making it past 1982. I would prefer to just dismiss every single thing Landy did and to blanket think he was a piece of crap who did absolutely nothing of value, but it's hard for me to feel as conclusive about it as you.

To me, it's a similar argument that could be made for Murry. Would Brian have had the same deep, deep drive and unimaginable fear of failure to be as insanely prolific as he was in the 1960s without Murry being as much of a horrifying abusive d-bag to Brian? I'm giving Murry absolutely no awards or accolades, but I think it's obvious that even if Brian had become a famous musician, if you take Murry's abuse out of the equation, maybe Brian isn't quite as motivated by fear/failure in quite the same way, and even if Brian had nevertheless started a band, who knows how his output would have been affected.  Brian himself has stated how Murry's abuse gave him an unimaginably insane amount of drive.  It's complicated.

That said, I truly hope that no parent ever tries to emulate what Murry did out of some misguided belief that this is a way to get your child to be a hitmaking, moneymaking machine, much as I truly hope that no shrink ever tries to emulate Landy's actions in any way, shape or form.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 08, 2016, 12:25:41 PM
Maybe you're right that he did something special and unique and I don't see it. I'm inclined to think of proof from the other direction though - you'd have to prove to me that Landy did something special and unique before I give him accolades, rather than I give him accolades until it's disproven that he deserves them.
While I'm a terribly PC person, I don't think everyone should get a trophy just for showing up.

Please know... I'm certainly not trying to give Landy any "accolades"! My true and absolute hatred of a significant amount of the man's actions is real, but I can also see how there were some things that worked for a time. I wonder how you (or public opinion in general) would have been different if Landy got Brian sober in 1982, and then (heaven forbid, just stating this for the sake of argument) both of them tragically perished in an accident a couple years later, before the real awful scumbaggery started. It's hard to separate the awful stuff from the less awful stuff, but I think it's possible to believe that some elements of Landy's initial plan "worked" and to still not give him "accolades" or any type of retroactive award.  
In the scenario you depict, I'm sure my feelings would be different, but also my information would be different. But I read stuff from the first Landy period and consider it a destructive and degrading form of therapy. I would not argue with someone who said that the first Landy period contributed to any sense that BW needed to be saved during the second Landy period.
Having grown up surrounded by the mentally ill, some receiving good treatment, some not so good, I can only think of Landy's methodology across the board as destructive. The only benefit is that BW was separated from substances, but even the method of doing that probably contributed to his further mental deterioration, so Landy's practices that helped BW's physical health, even at the beginning, were simultaneously wreaking havoc on his mental health. And, again, I think the contribution to his physical health only required the capacity to force him to do or not do things. The attacks on his mental required special skills and those skills are what Landy had.

I agree that the depths of how much damage Landy ultimately wreaked on Brian are incalculable, and I don't feel good about pointing out what I feel to be several isolated fortunate actions that Landy did which led to Brian making it past 1982. I would prefer to just dismiss every single thing Landy did and to blanket think he was a piece of crap who did absolutely nothing of value, but it's hard for me to feel as conclusive about it as you.

To me, it's a similar argument that could be made for Murry. Would Brian have had the same deep drive and fear of failure to be as insanely prolific as he was in the 1960s without Murry being as much of a horrifying abusive d-bag to Brian? I'm giving Murry absolutely no awards or accolades, but I think it's obvious that even if Brian had become a famous musician, if you take Murry's abuse out of the equation, maybe Brian isn't quite as motivated by fear/failure in quite the same way, and even if Brian had nevertheless started a band, who knows how his output would have been affected.  Brian himself has stated how Murry's abuse gave him an unimaginable insane amount of drive.

That said, I truly hope that no parent ever tries to emulate what Murry did out of some misguided belief that this is a way to get your child to be a hitmaking, moneymaking machine, much as I truly hope that no shrink ever tries to emulate Landy's actions in any way, shape or form.
I agree with what you say about Murry. Though, for me, the trade-off is easy - I'd be much happier thinking that someone was not tortured by their parent and the world lost some excellent music than the reverse.
Regarding Landy, we may differ in our understanding of the nature of BW's needs at that time. I think his mental health issues were vastly more critical than his physical or substance issues and that a lot of stuff, including Landy, in the 70s exacerbated his mental health issues to the degree that his physical health and his life may have been threatened. So I consider Landy part of the cause of the emergency; and Landy helped remove one of the symptoms while continuing to exacerbate the cause.
In these discussions, I see that some people focus on BW's drug-usage. To me, that is wholly secondary.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Smilin Ed H on April 08, 2016, 01:12:16 PM
I can't help but find it anything other than deeply amusing that the poster doing the lion's share of the stirring is someone who recently flounced off in hugely public manner, vowing never to return. Epic fail.  ;D

Because he thought you were behind it!  :-D


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Lonely Summer on April 08, 2016, 01:44:09 PM
As I understand it - correct me if I'm wrong - but it was mainly Carl who pushed to get help for Brian in '82, and that help turned out to be Landy. I wonder if he had any misgivings about bringing Landy back? Because I can't believe Carl would have made this move if he had any inkling Landy was going to have total control over Brian forever, and never willingly let go. I still think the stress of dealing with the Landy situation took a few years off of Carl's life. And I wonder what Brian's book will have to say about Carl's part in the whole episode; in the movie, it was barely touched upon.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on April 08, 2016, 01:47:00 PM
I can't help but find it anything other than deeply amusing that the poster doing the lion's share of the stirring is someone who recently flounced off in hugely public manner, vowing never to return. Epic fail.  ;D

Because he thought you were behind it!  :-D

I'm guessing someone's feeling pretty silly right now...


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Whitewall Tires on April 08, 2016, 06:57:33 PM
i don't think just anyone could have saved brian's life in any meaningful way back in 83-86. brian worked with landy because 1) he trusted him and 2) he fought for brian against the other beach boys. brian has said many times those 2 reasons were key to him working with landy the 2nd time. yes, later things went overboard but at the beginniong of the 2nd round with landy brian would not trust  just "anyone". it would not have worked.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: GhostyTMRS on April 08, 2016, 07:00:33 PM
I know that it's common to refer to the WIBN book as Landy's book, but Todd Gold was the actual writer. He's ghost-written a slew of celebrity biographies  (http://www.amazon.com/Todd-Gold/e/B001ITYC0Q), and I wish we had him on record to talk about how that book came about and what the process of writing it was like. How much access did he have to Brian? I'm guessing not much since so many stories in the book are re-workings of other articles on the Beach Boys but rewritten in first person to make it sound like Brian was telling the story (Gold admitted as much).
What was it like to have everything vetted by Gene Landy? Has something like this happened with any other biographies he's ghost-written?  

Gold has spoken very little about the book over the years and his answers have been kind of vague. I'm guessing that since the book was a subject of a lawsuit, we may never get the full story.

He just wrote the new and bestselling Dick Van Dyke autobiography so he still has his reputation to think of as well.  


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cam Mott on April 08, 2016, 07:53:55 PM
Hasn't Gold said he had something six hours of tape by Brian for the book?  Apparently not nearly enough.

At one time there was a manuscript of WIBN for auction on Ebay from a supposed former housekeeper of Landy supposedly with notes by Brian in the margins. Something like that. Anybody remember anything like that?  Everything on Ebay is totally legit and authentic don't you know.  ::)


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on April 08, 2016, 08:51:09 PM
... Because I can't believe Carl would have made this move if he had any inkling Landy was going to have total control over Brian forever, and never willingly let go.

Sorry to keep quoting you in this thread, Lonely Summer. The last time I did it in this thread I thought there was a posse out for my head. I'm not singling your quote out, I just want to ask a question and make a point regarding it.

I never understood the train of thought that "Landy was never going away" or "so-and-so saved Brian from Landy" or "they couldn't get Brian away from Landy". I don't understand why Carl, or a member of Brian's immediate family, couldn't at any time terminate Landy's services.

When you contract a psychologist or psychiatrist or any medical professional for treatment, yes, there are certain terms. You sometimes agree to potential treatments (i.e one-on-one therapy, group therapy, drug therapy, special diets, special living conditions, etc.), you sometimes agree to one or a number of different doctors (in the same facility/practice), and you obviously agree to the fees. The one thing that is usually not a part of the contract or agreement is the term of the services. Yes, the doctor might recommend a preferred length of time for the treatment to be effective, but these terms are usually weeks, maybe months, certainly not years. Nobody is going to agree or lock into that amount of time, and I don't know if it's legal anyway. Does anybody know if Brian Wilson entered into a medical contract with Eugene Landy - for so many years?

So, why did Carl wait so long before he "rescued" or "saved" Brian from Landy? Well, there might be two reasons. First, look at Brian's life. Maybe Carl looked at Brain's physical health and saw that he was in the best physical shape of his adult life. Maybe he looked at Brian's lifestyle; Brian was off drugs, he was was well-groomed, well-dressed, got his driver's license back and was driving from place to place, had a nice house, was eating healthy meals, was actually going places, visiting places that were broadening his horizons, and had friends (if you want to call the staff who hung out with him friends). Maybe Carl looked at Brian's musical output - one critically acclaimed solo album, another "in-the-can", contributing to Beach Boys' albums, and being present for almost all of The Beach Boys' TV appearances including videos.

Or, second, maybe Carl looked at the alternatives to Landy and everything mentioned above. Sure, Carl could've initiated another search for a doctor who could "save" Brian. Or, maybe Carl thought the alternative was having Brian declared incompetent which meant a conservatorship. And, then there's the least desirable alternative...institutionalization. When Carl looked at those alternatives, maybe he thought the Landy 24 hour therapy - with all its negatives - was the lesser of the three evils.

For the first 6-7 years, the major complaints about Landy's treatment were issues like Brian not accepting or returning phone calls, Brian not spending time with his family, Brian not "liking" the Beach Boys, Landy's staff shadowing Brian, and Brian saying things about Landy like calling him his manager, co-songwriter, and producer. I don't know when the issue of over-medicating became a concern. Obviously they knew Brian was on "something", but did they know about the potential side effects or why the drugs were being prescribed (illegally) in the first place?

So my question is, why didn't Carl intervene in 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, or whenever? He didn't need Brian's permission or cooperation. If Brian objected and refused to stop seeing Landy, Carl could've petitioned the court at any time, and, in my opinion, he would've won. I believe Carl could've presented enough evidence, with witnesses, to find Brian not able to care for himself. Hell, Carl's best witness would've been Dr. Landy himself. If Landy says that Brian needed his 24 hour therapy program, Landy is making Carl's case for him. If Landy says that Brian, because of Landy's successful treatment, is perfectly able to function in society without him, then fine, it's no longer necessary for Landy to treat Brian. Oh, it might've gotten ugly, and it definitely would've been painful, but it would've ended the relationship with Landy.

But Carl didn't do that. He didn't intervene. But he could've have. At any time. Again, I'm not casting blame, just discussing.

As far as Brian's will and Landy illegally involving himself in the changing of the will; of course that's important and despicable. But, the issue of the will alone, the legal evidence it provided, and the "gotcha" Landy aspect, wasn't necessary for Carl or anyone to "save" Brian. Carl DIDN'T NEED the will evidence to terminate Landy. As I mentioned above, Carl and family could've gotten Brian away from Landy in the previous 8-9 years, based on Brian's condition, other alternative treatments, and the fact that there was no term (months, years) for the treatment. What the will issue ultimately did was provide a way to prosecute Landy. Now, LEGALLY Landy could not treat Brian, almost like a restraining order. It also aided in the prosecuting of Landy for other illegalities which forced him to surrender his license, and I believe there was a also a financial settlement (I stand to be corrected on that).  


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 08, 2016, 09:18:00 PM
Or, maybe Carl thought the alternative was having Brian declared incompetent which meant a conservatorship.
My understanding is that they did get a conservatorship and made Landy the conservator. They could have kept the conservatorship and hired Landy under 'normal' arrangements, but chose not to. So far, I've only come up with one interpretation of that choice. I'm happy to hear others.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on April 08, 2016, 09:43:52 PM
Or, maybe Carl thought the alternative was having Brian declared incompetent which meant a conservatorship.
My understanding is that they did get a conservatorship and made Landy the conservator. They could have kept the conservatorship and hired Landy under 'normal' arrangements, but chose not to. So far, I've only come up with one interpretation of that choice. I'm happy to hear others.

It's my understanding that Landy was "employed", not appointed. Isn't a conservator appointed by a judge after a hearing has been conducted? Again, I'm asking questions, I don't know the answers.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: GhostyTMRS on April 08, 2016, 09:49:39 PM
Part of the reason for that, SJS, may be that during the 80's (based on anecdotal evidence) The Beach Boys only interacted with each other while on stage or in front of the cameras. There was no relationship, no friendship, no small talk, no nothing. Despite being family in some cases, there was no communication. This is very common with bands that have had long careers and been through the mill. It wasn't just Brian who was isolated from the group, they were all isolated from each other, and willingly so.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on April 08, 2016, 10:06:14 PM
Part of the reason for that, SJS, may be that during the 80's (based on anecdotal evidence) The Beach Boys only interacted with each other while on stage or in front of the cameras. There was no relationship, no friendship, no small talk, no nothing. Despite being family in some cases, there was no communication. This is very common with bands that have had long careers and been through the mill. It wasn't just Brian who was isolated from the group, they were all isolated from each other, and willingly so.

Excellent points, GhostlyTMRS, and I agree with you. I often thought it would be interesting and fascinating to know just what interactions - or lack of - the Beach Boys had among themselves...off stage.

However, Landy was a very unique case, and I would think, especially as Beach Boys - an important "subject". We know that none of The Beach Boys liked Landy, at least after a year or so. I would think that paying a significant part of Landy's fees had to sting. And, most of all, they wanted Brian back in the fold. While, again I agree with you that communication wasn't their strong suit, Brian Wilson was and always will be a priority, and I think they were united in their attitude toward Landy, even discussing it.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 08, 2016, 10:27:42 PM
Or, maybe Carl thought the alternative was having Brian declared incompetent which meant a conservatorship.
My understanding is that they did get a conservatorship and made Landy the conservator. They could have kept the conservatorship and hired Landy under 'normal' arrangements, but chose not to. So far, I've only come up with one interpretation of that choice. I'm happy to hear others.

It's my understanding that Landy was "employed", not appointed. Isn't a conservator appointed by a judge after a hearing has been conducted? Again, I'm asking questions, I don't know the answers.
I've read a lot of articles that refer to him as Wilson's 'legal guardian.' I never checked the sources, so maybe that's a myth. It's also my understanding that Marilyn had, previously, a blanket POA. I'd assumed the 'legal guardianship' was established by that route. Wilson has said that Landy made threats to 'put him on the funny farm' if he wasn't compliant, so I took that as evidence that Landy had legal leverage.
If anyone has full knowledge of Landy's legal status, that would be good to know.
Perhaps the book will tell us.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on April 08, 2016, 10:53:52 PM
I know that it's common to refer to the WIBN book as Landy's book, but Todd Gold was the actual writer. He's ghost-written a slew of celebrity biographies  (http://www.amazon.com/Todd-Gold/e/B001ITYC0Q), and I wish we had him on record to talk about how that book came about and what the process of writing it was like. How much access did he have to Brian? I'm guessing not much since so many stories in the book are re-workings of other articles on the Beach Boys but rewritten in first person to make it sound like Brian was telling the story (Gold admitted as much).

We do - shortly after the book was published and everyone was ripping him a deserved new one for using other people's writing without so much as crediting them, he sent a letter, to Billboard I think, explaining he had to do that as Brian's responses were mostly very terse, so he had to flesh out the "narrative". Brian himself has stated that all he did was "a bunch of interviews", and I'm not alone in being told that those responses consisted largely of "yes", "no" or "I don't remember". Whichever way you slice it, a despicable excuse for a book.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Lonely Summer on April 08, 2016, 11:05:14 PM
... Because I can't believe Carl would have made this move if he had any inkling Landy was going to have total control over Brian forever, and never willingly let go.

Sorry to keep quoting you in this thread, Lonely Summer. The last time I did it in this thread I thought there was a posse out for my head. I'm not singling your quote out, I just want to ask a question and make a point regarding it.

I never understood the train of thought that "Landy was never going away" or "so-and-so saved Brian from Landy" or "they couldn't get Brian away from Landy". I don't understand why Carl, or a member of Brian's immediate family, couldn't at any time terminate Landy's services.

When you contract a psychologist or psychiatrist or any medical professional for treatment, yes, there are certain terms. You sometimes agree to potential treatments (i.e one-on-one therapy, group therapy, drug therapy, special diets, special living conditions, etc.), you sometimes agree to one or a number of different doctors (in the same facility/practice), and you obviously agree to the fees. The one thing that is usually not a part of the contract or agreement is the term of the services. Yes, the doctor might recommend a preferred length of time for the treatment to be effective, but these terms are usually weeks, maybe months, certainly not years. Nobody is going to agree or lock into that amount of time, and I don't know if it's legal anyway. Does anybody know if Brian Wilson entered into a medical contract with Eugene Landy - for so many years?

So, why did Carl wait so long before he "rescued" or "saved" Brian from Landy? Well, there might be two reasons. First, look at Brian's life. Maybe Carl looked at Brain's physical health and saw that he was in the best physical shape of his adult life. Maybe he looked at Brian's lifestyle; Brian was off drugs, he was was well-groomed, well-dressed, got his driver's license back and was driving from place to place, had a nice house, was eating healthy meals, was actually going places, visiting places that were broadening his horizons, and had friends (if you want to call the staff who hung out with him friends). Maybe Carl looked at Brian's musical output - one critically acclaimed solo album, another "in-the-can", contributing to Beach Boys' albums, and being present for almost all of The Beach Boys' TV appearances including videos.

Or, second, maybe Carl looked at the alternatives to Landy and everything mentioned above. Sure, Carl could've initiated another search for a doctor who could "save" Brian. Or, maybe Carl thought the alternative was having Brian declared incompetent which meant a conservatorship. And, then there's the least desirable alternative...institutionalization. When Carl looked at those alternatives, maybe he thought the Landy 24 hour therapy - with all its negatives - was the lesser of the three evils.

For the first 6-7 years, the major complaints about Landy's treatment were issues like Brian not accepting or returning phone calls, Brian not spending time with his family, Brian not "liking" the Beach Boys, Landy's staff shadowing Brian, and Brian saying things about Landy like calling him his manager, co-songwriter, and producer. I don't know when the issue of over-medicating became a concern. Obviously they knew Brian was on "something", but did they know about the potential side effects or why the drugs were being prescribed (illegally) in the first place?

So my question is, why didn't Carl intervene in 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, or whenever? He didn't need Brian's permission or cooperation. If Brian objected and refused to stop seeing Landy, Carl could've petitioned the court at any time, and, in my opinion, he would've won. I believe Carl could've presented enough evidence, with witnesses, to find Brian not able to care for himself. Hell, Carl's best witness would've been Dr. Landy himself. If Landy says that Brian needed his 24 hour therapy program, Landy is making Carl's case for him. If Landy says that Brian, because of Landy's successful treatment, is perfectly able to function in society without him, then fine, it's no longer necessary for Landy to treat Brian. Oh, it might've gotten ugly, and it definitely would've been painful, but it would've ended the relationship with Landy.

But Carl didn't do that. He didn't intervene. But he could've have. At any time. Again, I'm not casting blame, just discussing.

As far as Brian's will and Landy illegally involving himself in the changing of the will; of course that's important and despicable. But, the issue of the will alone, the legal evidence it provided, and the "gotcha" Landy aspect, wasn't necessary for Carl or anyone to "save" Brian. Carl DIDN'T NEED the will evidence to terminate Landy. As I mentioned above, Carl and family could've gotten Brian away from Landy in the previous 8-9 years, based on Brian's condition, other alternative treatments, and the fact that there was no term (months, years) for the treatment. What the will issue ultimately did was provide a way to prosecute Landy. Now, LEGALLY Landy could not treat Brian, almost like a restraining order. It also aided in the prosecuting of Landy for other illegalities which forced him to surrender his license, and I believe there was a also a financial settlement (I stand to be corrected on that).  
if I'm not mistaken, action against Landy began in 1988. The investigation took awhile, but Landy sure didn't do himself any favors in the intervening years, having his name all over Brian's album as executive producer and songwriter. I guess he convinced himself he really had some musical talent, and that his was the vision Brian needed for his new music. And it's true that the guys didn't hang out a lot in those years; there's one clip on the Endless Summer tv series where some young band is asking the BB's how they've stayed together so many years, and Brian, being Brian, utters the absolute truth: "Don't hang out together!" There were a lot of outward signs that Brian was getting better - first of all, he looked great! He was the only one in the group that looked like he could've been a surfer! And he was writing and recording again; the "Brian is back" hype in 1976 turned out to be very premature; but in 1988, with the solo album, it really did feel like he was back from the dead, reborn.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on April 09, 2016, 04:29:38 AM
Or, maybe Carl thought the alternative was having Brian declared incompetent which meant a conservatorship.
My understanding is that they did get a conservatorship and made Landy the conservator. They could have kept the conservatorship and hired Landy under 'normal' arrangements, but chose not to. So far, I've only come up with one interpretation of that choice. I'm happy to hear others.

It's my understanding that Landy was "employed", not appointed. Isn't a conservator appointed by a judge after a hearing has been conducted? Again, I'm asking questions, I don't know the answers.
I've read a lot of articles that refer to him as Wilson's 'legal guardian.' I never checked the sources, so maybe that's a myth. It's also my understanding that Marilyn had, previously, a blanket POA. I'd assumed the 'legal guardianship' was established by that route. Wilson has said that Landy made threats to 'put him on the funny farm' if he wasn't compliant, so I took that as evidence that Landy had legal leverage.
If anyone has full knowledge of Landy's legal status, that would be good to know.
Perhaps the book will tell us.

I don't know what Landy's official status was, but you raise another issue I failed to mention in my original post - the POA. In 1976, Landy was hired and...fired. Fired! So, how was that done? The reason for Landy's services being terminated in 1976 was exorbitant fees. First, the Beach Boys withheld their contribution to Landy's fees. And, Marilyn Wilson, who I am assuming controlled the Wilson checkbook, stopped paying Brian's/their portion of the bill. And, Landy's gone.

Why couldn't they "fire" Landy the second time around? I believe Landy was re-hired in 1982 by The Beach Boys' manager, Tom Hulett. Then, why couldn't the manager or attorney representing The Beach Boys from 1983 through 1990, at any time, draft a letter to Dr. Landy, in effect saying, "Thank you for your treatment of Brian Wilson, however, your services are no longer needed. Please cease all services immediately." This, of course, would be followed by the Beach Boys withholding their payment to Landy's fees. But who was the Power Of Attorney on Brian's checking account? Couldn't the manager or attorney also draft a letter to Brian's Power Of Attorney - whomever he/she was - directing THEM to stop paying Landy's bills? Wouldn't the result be the same as 1976? Landy would, in effect, be fired.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on April 09, 2016, 04:47:40 AM
... Because I can't believe Carl would have made this move if he had any inkling Landy was going to have total control over Brian forever, and never willingly let go.

Sorry to keep quoting you in this thread, Lonely Summer. The last time I did it in this thread I thought there was a posse out for my head. I'm not singling your quote out, I just want to ask a question and make a point regarding it.

I never understood the train of thought that "Landy was never going away" or "so-and-so saved Brian from Landy" or "they couldn't get Brian away from Landy". I don't understand why Carl, or a member of Brian's immediate family, couldn't at any time terminate Landy's services.

When you contract a psychologist or psychiatrist or any medical professional for treatment, yes, there are certain terms. You sometimes agree to potential treatments (i.e one-on-one therapy, group therapy, drug therapy, special diets, special living conditions, etc.), you sometimes agree to one or a number of different doctors (in the same facility/practice), and you obviously agree to the fees. The one thing that is usually not a part of the contract or agreement is the term of the services. Yes, the doctor might recommend a preferred length of time for the treatment to be effective, but these terms are usually weeks, maybe months, certainly not years. Nobody is going to agree or lock into that amount of time, and I don't know if it's legal anyway. Does anybody know if Brian Wilson entered into a medical contract with Eugene Landy - for so many years?

So, why did Carl wait so long before he "rescued" or "saved" Brian from Landy? Well, there might be two reasons. First, look at Brian's life. Maybe Carl looked at Brain's physical health and saw that he was in the best physical shape of his adult life. Maybe he looked at Brian's lifestyle; Brian was off drugs, he was was well-groomed, well-dressed, got his driver's license back and was driving from place to place, had a nice house, was eating healthy meals, was actually going places, visiting places that were broadening his horizons, and had friends (if you want to call the staff who hung out with him friends). Maybe Carl looked at Brian's musical output - one critically acclaimed solo album, another "in-the-can", contributing to Beach Boys' albums, and being present for almost all of The Beach Boys' TV appearances including videos.

Or, second, maybe Carl looked at the alternatives to Landy and everything mentioned above. Sure, Carl could've initiated another search for a doctor who could "save" Brian. Or, maybe Carl thought the alternative was having Brian declared incompetent which meant a conservatorship. And, then there's the least desirable alternative...institutionalization. When Carl looked at those alternatives, maybe he thought the Landy 24 hour therapy - with all its negatives - was the lesser of the three evils.

For the first 6-7 years, the major complaints about Landy's treatment were issues like Brian not accepting or returning phone calls, Brian not spending time with his family, Brian not "liking" the Beach Boys, Landy's staff shadowing Brian, and Brian saying things about Landy like calling him his manager, co-songwriter, and producer. I don't know when the issue of over-medicating became a concern. Obviously they knew Brian was on "something", but did they know about the potential side effects or why the drugs were being prescribed (illegally) in the first place?

So my question is, why didn't Carl intervene in 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, or whenever? He didn't need Brian's permission or cooperation. If Brian objected and refused to stop seeing Landy, Carl could've petitioned the court at any time, and, in my opinion, he would've won. I believe Carl could've presented enough evidence, with witnesses, to find Brian not able to care for himself. Hell, Carl's best witness would've been Dr. Landy himself. If Landy says that Brian needed his 24 hour therapy program, Landy is making Carl's case for him. If Landy says that Brian, because of Landy's successful treatment, is perfectly able to function in society without him, then fine, it's no longer necessary for Landy to treat Brian. Oh, it might've gotten ugly, and it definitely would've been painful, but it would've ended the relationship with Landy.

But Carl didn't do that. He didn't intervene. But he could've have. At any time. Again, I'm not casting blame, just discussing.

As far as Brian's will and Landy illegally involving himself in the changing of the will; of course that's important and despicable. But, the issue of the will alone, the legal evidence it provided, and the "gotcha" Landy aspect, wasn't necessary for Carl or anyone to "save" Brian. Carl DIDN'T NEED the will evidence to terminate Landy. As I mentioned above, Carl and family could've gotten Brian away from Landy in the previous 8-9 years, based on Brian's condition, other alternative treatments, and the fact that there was no term (months, years) for the treatment. What the will issue ultimately did was provide a way to prosecute Landy. Now, LEGALLY Landy could not treat Brian, almost like a restraining order. It also aided in the prosecuting of Landy for other illegalities which forced him to surrender his license, and I believe there was a also a financial settlement (I stand to be corrected on that).  
if I'm not mistaken, action against Landy began in 1988. The investigation took awhile, but Landy sure didn't do himself any favors in the intervening years, having his name all over Brian's album as executive producer and songwriter. I guess he convinced himself he really had some musical talent, and that his was the vision Brian needed for his new music. And it's true that the guys didn't hang out a lot in those years; there's one clip on the Endless Summer tv series where some young band is asking the BB's how they've stayed together so many years, and Brian, being Brian, utters the absolute truth: "Don't hang out together!" There were a lot of outward signs that Brian was getting better - first of all, he looked great! He was the only one in the group that looked like he could've been a surfer! And he was writing and recording again; the "Brian is back" hype in 1976 turned out to be very premature; but in 1988, with the solo album, it really did feel like he was back from the dead, reborn.

So, your theory - and I'm not disagreeing - is that The Beach Boys, Carl, Brian's family, DIDN'T think that Brian needed to be "saved" or "freed"; that Brian was actually doing well, or at least much better. Maybe they thought that despite their hardships (not being able to see or talk with Brian when they wanted, etc.), they would "hang in there" with Landy? I don't discount that theory at all.   


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Micha on April 09, 2016, 06:35:17 AM
Maybe after seeing how Brian went downhill after the first sacking of Landy, the boys weren't sure if removing Landy would again be fatal. And their relationship was probably not close enough to see Landy's wrongs.

I'm not sure BTW that a "normal" psychologist could have saved Brian. IMHO it took a ruthless kidnapper to save Brian from himself. It's like a leukemia cure, first you have to remove the old immune system with aggressive chemicals, but then you need to stop the chemicals because they'd kill you, and then you need a bone marrow donation. In this analogy Melinda would be the bone marrow donation.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 09, 2016, 08:39:13 AM
Or, maybe Carl thought the alternative was having Brian declared incompetent which meant a conservatorship.
My understanding is that they did get a conservatorship and made Landy the conservator. They could have kept the conservatorship and hired Landy under 'normal' arrangements, but chose not to. So far, I've only come up with one interpretation of that choice. I'm happy to hear others.

It's my understanding that Landy was "employed", not appointed. Isn't a conservator appointed by a judge after a hearing has been conducted? Again, I'm asking questions, I don't know the answers.
I've read a lot of articles that refer to him as Wilson's 'legal guardian.' I never checked the sources, so maybe that's a myth. It's also my understanding that Marilyn had, previously, a blanket POA. I'd assumed the 'legal guardianship' was established by that route. Wilson has said that Landy made threats to 'put him on the funny farm' if he wasn't compliant, so I took that as evidence that Landy had legal leverage.
If anyone has full knowledge of Landy's legal status, that would be good to know.
Perhaps the book will tell us.

I don't know what Landy's official status was, but you raise another issue I failed to mention in my original post - the POA. In 1976, Landy was hired and...fired. Fired! So, how was that done? The reason for Landy's services being terminated in 1976 was exorbitant fees. First, the Beach Boys withheld their contribution to Landy's fees. And, Marilyn Wilson, who I am assuming controlled the Wilson checkbook, stopped paying Brian's/their portion of the bill. And, Landy's gone.

Why couldn't they "fire" Landy the second time around? I believe Landy was re-hired in 1982 by The Beach Boys' manager, Tom Hulett. Then, why couldn't the manager or attorney representing The Beach Boys from 1983 through 1990, at any time, draft a letter to Dr. Landy, in effect saying, "Thank you for your treatment of Brian Wilson, however, your services are no longer needed. Please cease all services immediately." This, of course, would be followed by the Beach Boys withholding their payment to Landy's fees. But who was the Power Of Attorney on Brian's checking account? Couldn't the manager or attorney also draft a letter to Brian's Power Of Attorney - whomever he/she was - directing THEM to stop paying Landy's bills? Wouldn't the result be the same as 1976? Landy would, in effect, be fired.
Again, this points to him having legal control.
In Love and Mercy Wilson/Cusack calls him his 'legal guardian'. They could fire him in the '70s because Marilyn had legal control and the evidence indicates they gave that over to Landy.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 09, 2016, 09:10:48 AM
Maybe after seeing how Brian went downhill after the first sacking of Landy, the boys weren't sure if removing Landy would again be fatal. And their relationship was probably not close enough to see Landy's wrongs.

I'm not sure BTW that a "normal" psychologist could have saved Brian. IMHO it took a ruthless kidnapper to save Brian from himself. It's like a leukemia cure, first you have to remove the old immune system with aggressive chemicals, but then you need to stop the chemicals because they'd kill you, and then you need a bone marrow donation. In this analogy Melinda would be the bone marrow donation.
People say 'Brian appeared so healthy; they must have thought he was fine" so frequently. But I'm sorry, it's kind of transparently ridiculous. Lots of journalists in the 70s and 80s 'saw Landy's wrongs'. I saw them and I was a teenager living in New Jersey with no super powers. How would his family not see it? It reads to me like the most desperate sort of justification.
I'm frequently surprised that people on this board still act like he's some mythological uber-madman. He was a guy with mental health problems and consequent substance abuse problems who had been treated like sh*t by his dad when he was a kid, and by almost everyone he knew in the 70s. The people he should have been able to rely on for help reacted to his problems by physically forcing him to do exactly what he didn't want; by ignoring his actual problem; by sometimes mocking it. I'm amazed how little empathy he seems to get from his fans for what he went through in the '70s. "Oh, he was so crazy!" How would you act if your family hired people to Landify or Rockify you when you wanted to take time off from your job for mental health reasons? And instead of getting you help for your issues, they hire someone to physically force you back to work, completely disregarding your actual issues? And of course they live off the income from your work so would you not think life is a 'cruel joke,' if you were being reported as a madman and 'oh your poor family' when they had actually managed to enslave you in front of the whole world? And the world is saying, "that Brian Wilson, I heard he's crazy." "No, it's druuuugs!" So he acted out in passive aggressive ways, because he did have mental health issues and couldn't manage his situation, and the people around him increased the force to get him to comply, so his passive aggressive acting out became more extreme. He's not some sort of almost incurable diseased maniac. He was a justifiably very angry guy who finds it almost impossible to express anger,  with mental health and substance problems.
I guess each of us have our pet BB fan peeve. Some it's the Mike Love hate. Some it's the Mike Love Love. me, it's the justifications for Brian Wilson to have been treated like he was by his family and Landy. There was no justification. Brian Wilson didn't need it. He didn't deserve it. He isn't unlike other humans and he didn't need special, illegal, brutal treatment.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Ragegasm, Coming Soon To A Dictionary Near You on April 09, 2016, 09:38:50 AM
Maybe after seeing how Brian went downhill after the first sacking of Landy, the boys weren't sure if removing Landy would again be fatal. And their relationship was probably not close enough to see Landy's wrongs.

I'm not sure BTW that a "normal" psychologist could have saved Brian. IMHO it took a ruthless kidnapper to save Brian from himself. It's like a leukemia cure, first you have to remove the old immune system with aggressive chemicals, but then you need to stop the chemicals because they'd kill you, and then you need a bone marrow donation. In this analogy Melinda would be the bone marrow donation.
People say 'Brian appeared so healthy; they must have thought he was fine" so frequently. But I'm sorry, it's kind of transparently ridiculous. Lots of journalists in the 70s and 80s 'saw Landy's wrongs'. I saw them and I was a teenager living in New Jersey with no super powers. How would his family not see it? It reads to me like the most desperate sort of justification.
I'm frequently surprised that people on this board still act like he's some mythological uber-madman. He was a guy with mental health problems and consequent substance abuse problems who had been treated like sh*t by his dad when he was a kid, and by almost everyone he knew in the 70s. The people he should have been able to rely on for help reacted to his problems by physically forcing him to do exactly what he didn't want; by ignoring his actual problem; by sometimes mocking it. I'm amazed how little empathy he seems to get from his fans for what he went through in the '70s. "Oh, he was so crazy!" How would you act if your family hired people to Landify or Rockify you when you wanted to take time off from your job for mental health reasons? And instead of getting you help for your issues, they hire someone to physically force you back to work, completely disregarding your actual issues? And of course they live off the income from your work so would you not think life is a 'cruel joke,' if you were being reported as a madman and 'oh your poor family' when they had actually managed to enslave you in front of the whole world? And the world is saying, "that Brian Wilson, I heard he's crazy." "No, it's druuuugs!" So he acted out in passive aggressive ways, because he did have mental health issues and couldn't manage his situation, and the people around him increased the force to get him to comply, so his passive aggressive acting out became more extreme. He's not some sort of almost incurable diseased maniac. He was a justifiably very angry guy who finds it almost impossible to express anger,  with mental health and substance problems.
I guess each of us have our pet BB fan peeve. Some it's the Mike Love hate. Some it's the Mike Love Love. me, it's the justifications for Brian Wilson to have been treated like he was by his family and Landy. There was no justification. Brian Wilson didn't need it. He didn't deserve it. He isn't unlike other humans and he didn't need special, illegal, brutal treatment.

Truer words were never spoken.

As far why it was allowed to happen? Maybe it was easier for the family to do what they did rather than actually admit and address the problem. But easy sometimes is counterproductive.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on April 09, 2016, 09:41:14 AM
Or, maybe Carl thought the alternative was having Brian declared incompetent which meant a conservatorship.
My understanding is that they did get a conservatorship and made Landy the conservator. They could have kept the conservatorship and hired Landy under 'normal' arrangements, but chose not to. So far, I've only come up with one interpretation of that choice. I'm happy to hear others.

It's my understanding that Landy was "employed", not appointed. Isn't a conservator appointed by a judge after a hearing has been conducted? Again, I'm asking questions, I don't know the answers.
I've read a lot of articles that refer to him as Wilson's 'legal guardian.' I never checked the sources, so maybe that's a myth. It's also my understanding that Marilyn had, previously, a blanket POA. I'd assumed the 'legal guardianship' was established by that route. Wilson has said that Landy made threats to 'put him on the funny farm' if he wasn't compliant, so I took that as evidence that Landy had legal leverage.
If anyone has full knowledge of Landy's legal status, that would be good to know.
Perhaps the book will tell us.

I don't know what Landy's official status was, but you raise another issue I failed to mention in my original post - the POA. In 1976, Landy was hired and...fired. Fired! So, how was that done? The reason for Landy's services being terminated in 1976 was exorbitant fees. First, the Beach Boys withheld their contribution to Landy's fees. And, Marilyn Wilson, who I am assuming controlled the Wilson checkbook, stopped paying Brian's/their portion of the bill. And, Landy's gone.

Why couldn't they "fire" Landy the second time around? I believe Landy was re-hired in 1982 by The Beach Boys' manager, Tom Hulett. Then, why couldn't the manager or attorney representing The Beach Boys from 1983 through 1990, at any time, draft a letter to Dr. Landy, in effect saying, "Thank you for your treatment of Brian Wilson, however, your services are no longer needed. Please cease all services immediately." This, of course, would be followed by the Beach Boys withholding their payment to Landy's fees. But who was the Power Of Attorney on Brian's checking account? Couldn't the manager or attorney also draft a letter to Brian's Power Of Attorney - whomever he/she was - directing THEM to stop paying Landy's bills? Wouldn't the result be the same as 1976? Landy would, in effect, be fired.
Again, this points to him having legal control.
In Love and Mercy Wilson/Cusack calls him his 'legal guardian'. They could fire him in the '70s because Marilyn had legal control and the evidence indicates they gave that over to Landy.

As I posted above, I don't KNOW what Landy's official status was, but I THINK it was simply...doctor. Landy was hired, whereas a Legal Guardian is usually appointed by a court. However, if those duties are abused, the guardianship can be revoked. Perhaps what was said in the movie was fiction.  


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: AndrewHickey on April 09, 2016, 09:45:39 AM
Once again Emily talks more sense than everyone else on the board combined. All sorts of excuses can be made for what happened, but from about 1976 through to Landy finally being gone -- more than half his adult life by the time it ended -- Brian was in a hellish situation, not of his own making, and *no-one* seemed to be acting in his interests.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Lee Marshall on April 09, 2016, 09:45:50 AM
Let's not forget that Carl was involved in a real balancing act.  He was obviously worried about Brian and his teetering on the brink of 'exactly what?'.  Along the path he also had to look out for Dennis while those issues manifested and that meant protecting him from others who for a variety of reasons were trying to do Dennis harm.  He had to serve as the creative focal point for any possible recording projects and he had to act as the on stage general...which meant making sure that certain voices were properly 'shadowed' and that the 'orchestra' was ready for action.  He also, along the way, had his own personal issues, family problems and privacy to maintain and uphold.  It all fell on Carl's shoulders as a one armed paper hanger in a wind storm...and then there was the Mike factor impacting negatively ad infinitum.

So if Carl didn't get the Brian/Landy thing part 2 entirely right it wasn't because he didn't give a sh*t.  He just didn't have a 4 deck plate.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Micha on April 09, 2016, 09:59:20 AM
Maybe after seeing how Brian went downhill after the first sacking of Landy, the boys weren't sure if removing Landy would again be fatal. And their relationship was probably not close enough to see Landy's wrongs.

I guess each of us have our pet BB fan peeve. Some it's the Mike Love hate. Some it's the Mike Love Love. me, it's the justifications for Brian Wilson to have been treated like he was by his family and Landy. There was no justification. Brian Wilson didn't need it. He didn't deserve it. He isn't unlike other humans and he didn't need special, illegal, brutal treatment.

What I wrote was NOT a justification, I strongly reject that notion. Strongly! I never said Brian deserved that kind of hellish treatment or that his family acted right. I just tried to put myself in their shoes, and if you read back, you will see that I added words like "probably" and "maybe" to my words, as I wasn't there and don't know what their situations were. What I do not believe is that the other band members did not care at all about Brian thinking "let him croak in that quack's claws".


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 09, 2016, 10:05:57 AM
Let's not forget that Carl was involved in a real balancing act.  He was obviously worried about Brian and his teetering on the brink of 'exactly what?'.  Along the path he also had to look out for Dennis while those issues manifested and that meant protecting him from others who for a variety of reasons were trying to do Dennis harm.  He had to serve as the creative focal point for any possible recording projects and he had to act as the on stage general...which meant making sure that certain voices were properly 'shadowed' and that the 'orchestra' was ready for action.  He also, along the way, had his own personal issues, family problems and privacy to maintain and uphold.  It all fell on Carl's shoulders as a one armed paper hanger in a wind storm...and then there was the Mike factor impacting negatively ad infinitum.

So if Carl didn't get the Brian/Landy thing part 2 entirely right it wasn't because he didn't give a sh*t.  He just didn't have a 4 deck plate.
I agree; but empathy for Carl's very difficult situation, and his own psychological issues, does not have to include justifications for the Landy thing. Carl seems to have made a huge mistake and to have sort of buried his head in the sand about it for a while. But given what you said above, and his personal issues, I can empathize with that as well. We've all screwed up and most of us, including me, egregiously, have had times when we looked away from our loves one's issues because we were so focused on our own; that happens.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 09, 2016, 10:09:15 AM
Maybe after seeing how Brian went downhill after the first sacking of Landy, the boys weren't sure if removing Landy would again be fatal. And their relationship was probably not close enough to see Landy's wrongs.

I guess each of us have our pet BB fan peeve. Some it's the Mike Love hate. Some it's the Mike Love Love. me, it's the justifications for Brian Wilson to have been treated like he was by his family and Landy. There was no justification. Brian Wilson didn't need it. He didn't deserve it. He isn't unlike other humans and he didn't need special, illegal, brutal treatment.

What I wrote was NOT a justification, I strongly reject that notion. Strongly! I never said Brian deserved that kind of hellish treatment or that his family acted right. I just tried to put myself in their shoes, and if you read back, you will see that I added words like "probably" and "maybe" to my words, as I wasn't there and don't know what their situations were. What I do not believe is that the other band members did not care at all about Brian thinking "let him croak in that quack's claws".
Sorry Micha, your post was the pin that broke my back, or the last straw or something. That was not a reaction simply to your post but to a whole culture of justification that I feel like I've been banging my head against for ages. Your post in itself was very mild but it just opened the floodgates. All these metaphors!


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on April 09, 2016, 10:10:55 AM
Just to reiterate, I am not blaming anyone, nor am I taking the other side and making excuses. My point is specifically that I don't get the positions of "saving Brian" or "freeing Brian" or "rescuing Brian from the clutches" or "Landy wouldn't leave" or "what could be done?". I don't think those terms are accurate. Once they (Brian's family) saw any reason to get rid of Landy, all they had to do was stop paying the bills and start legal proceedings, and I am pretty sure they would've succeeded. Yes, the mental health community was different thirty years ago, but the abuse of individuals with mental illness was taken seriously by the courts.  


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Lee Marshall on April 09, 2016, 10:15:22 AM
I wouldn't say that Carl's head was EVER buried in the sand...but rather in way too many HEAVY DUTY responsibilities...all of which were being sabotaged by others with a GREEDY and/or subsequently dangerous agenda...and I don't just mean Landy.  Landy also had his 'rules'.  That they had been so SEVERELY altered was the real problem.  It wasn't so much anyone's head in the sand as it was a 'doctor' with HIS head buried up his ass.

Carl loved Brian [and Dennis] and he stood steadfast trying to protect the family blueprint for the Beach Boys...albeit...sadly...alone.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Lonely Summer on April 09, 2016, 03:12:09 PM
Let's not forget that Carl was involved in a real balancing act.  He was obviously worried about Brian and his teetering on the brink of 'exactly what?'.  Along the path he also had to look out for Dennis while those issues manifested and that meant protecting him from others who for a variety of reasons were trying to do Dennis harm.  He had to serve as the creative focal point for any possible recording projects and he had to act as the on stage general...which meant making sure that certain voices were properly 'shadowed' and that the 'orchestra' was ready for action.  He also, along the way, had his own personal issues, family problems and privacy to maintain and uphold.  It all fell on Carl's shoulders as a one armed paper hanger in a wind storm...and then there was the Mike factor impacting negatively ad infinitum.

So if Carl didn't get the Brian/Landy thing part 2 entirely right it wasn't because he didn't give a sh*t.  He just didn't have a 4 deck plate.
EXACTLY! Nice to see that at least one person gets it. I don't know who exactly people are talking about when they say Brian was treated badly by his family (other than his father). I don't believe Brian was treated badly by his brothers, his mother, or his first wife. Could they have done more than they did? Possibly, but I doubt that any of them truly understand what was 'wrong' with Brian. And they all had their own issues to deal with. I think they did the best they could, the best they knew how to do.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Lonely Summer on April 09, 2016, 03:17:26 PM
... Because I can't believe Carl would have made this move if he had any inkling Landy was going to have total control over Brian forever, and never willingly let go.

Sorry to keep quoting you in this thread, Lonely Summer. The last time I did it in this thread I thought there was a posse out for my head. I'm not singling your quote out, I just want to ask a question and make a point regarding it.

I never understood the train of thought that "Landy was never going away" or "so-and-so saved Brian from Landy" or "they couldn't get Brian away from Landy". I don't understand why Carl, or a member of Brian's immediate family, couldn't at any time terminate Landy's services.

When you contract a psychologist or psychiatrist or any medical professional for treatment, yes, there are certain terms. You sometimes agree to potential treatments (i.e one-on-one therapy, group therapy, drug therapy, special diets, special living conditions, etc.), you sometimes agree to one or a number of different doctors (in the same facility/practice), and you obviously agree to the fees. The one thing that is usually not a part of the contract or agreement is the term of the services. Yes, the doctor might recommend a preferred length of time for the treatment to be effective, but these terms are usually weeks, maybe months, certainly not years. Nobody is going to agree or lock into that amount of time, and I don't know if it's legal anyway. Does anybody know if Brian Wilson entered into a medical contract with Eugene Landy - for so many years?

So, why did Carl wait so long before he "rescued" or "saved" Brian from Landy? Well, there might be two reasons. First, look at Brian's life. Maybe Carl looked at Brain's physical health and saw that he was in the best physical shape of his adult life. Maybe he looked at Brian's lifestyle; Brian was off drugs, he was was well-groomed, well-dressed, got his driver's license back and was driving from place to place, had a nice house, was eating healthy meals, was actually going places, visiting places that were broadening his horizons, and had friends (if you want to call the staff who hung out with him friends). Maybe Carl looked at Brian's musical output - one critically acclaimed solo album, another "in-the-can", contributing to Beach Boys' albums, and being present for almost all of The Beach Boys' TV appearances including videos.

Or, second, maybe Carl looked at the alternatives to Landy and everything mentioned above. Sure, Carl could've initiated another search for a doctor who could "save" Brian. Or, maybe Carl thought the alternative was having Brian declared incompetent which meant a conservatorship. And, then there's the least desirable alternative...institutionalization. When Carl looked at those alternatives, maybe he thought the Landy 24 hour therapy - with all its negatives - was the lesser of the three evils.

For the first 6-7 years, the major complaints about Landy's treatment were issues like Brian not accepting or returning phone calls, Brian not spending time with his family, Brian not "liking" the Beach Boys, Landy's staff shadowing Brian, and Brian saying things about Landy like calling him his manager, co-songwriter, and producer. I don't know when the issue of over-medicating became a concern. Obviously they knew Brian was on "something", but did they know about the potential side effects or why the drugs were being prescribed (illegally) in the first place?

So my question is, why didn't Carl intervene in 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, or whenever? He didn't need Brian's permission or cooperation. If Brian objected and refused to stop seeing Landy, Carl could've petitioned the court at any time, and, in my opinion, he would've won. I believe Carl could've presented enough evidence, with witnesses, to find Brian not able to care for himself. Hell, Carl's best witness would've been Dr. Landy himself. If Landy says that Brian needed his 24 hour therapy program, Landy is making Carl's case for him. If Landy says that Brian, because of Landy's successful treatment, is perfectly able to function in society without him, then fine, it's no longer necessary for Landy to treat Brian. Oh, it might've gotten ugly, and it definitely would've been painful, but it would've ended the relationship with Landy.

But Carl didn't do that. He didn't intervene. But he could've have. At any time. Again, I'm not casting blame, just discussing.

As far as Brian's will and Landy illegally involving himself in the changing of the will; of course that's important and despicable. But, the issue of the will alone, the legal evidence it provided, and the "gotcha" Landy aspect, wasn't necessary for Carl or anyone to "save" Brian. Carl DIDN'T NEED the will evidence to terminate Landy. As I mentioned above, Carl and family could've gotten Brian away from Landy in the previous 8-9 years, based on Brian's condition, other alternative treatments, and the fact that there was no term (months, years) for the treatment. What the will issue ultimately did was provide a way to prosecute Landy. Now, LEGALLY Landy could not treat Brian, almost like a restraining order. It also aided in the prosecuting of Landy for other illegalities which forced him to surrender his license, and I believe there was a also a financial settlement (I stand to be corrected on that).  
if I'm not mistaken, action against Landy began in 1988. The investigation took awhile, but Landy sure didn't do himself any favors in the intervening years, having his name all over Brian's album as executive producer and songwriter. I guess he convinced himself he really had some musical talent, and that his was the vision Brian needed for his new music. And it's true that the guys didn't hang out a lot in those years; there's one clip on the Endless Summer tv series where some young band is asking the BB's how they've stayed together so many years, and Brian, being Brian, utters the absolute truth: "Don't hang out together!" There were a lot of outward signs that Brian was getting better - first of all, he looked great! He was the only one in the group that looked like he could've been a surfer! And he was writing and recording again; the "Brian is back" hype in 1976 turned out to be very premature; but in 1988, with the solo album, it really did feel like he was back from the dead, reborn.

So, your theory - and I'm not disagreeing - is that The Beach Boys, Carl, Brian's family, DIDN'T think that Brian needed to be "saved" or "freed"; that Brian was actually doing well, or at least much better. Maybe they thought that despite their hardships (not being able to see or talk with Brian when they wanted, etc.), they would "hang in there" with Landy? I don't discount that theory at all.   
I think for the first few years, roughly 1983-86, they did believe Brian was getting better. After that, it became increasingly obvious that Landy was NEVER going to leave Brian, that he was going to sink his claws in even deeper with every passing year, being his songwriting partner, co-producer, ...was there any part of Brian's life that Landy did NOT have total control over by 1990? And in his own autobio, 'Brian' worries about what will happen if they are separated. Will he continue to be productive and drug free, or will he backslide into his old ways? Was he truly cured or not?


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cam Mott on April 09, 2016, 03:42:55 PM
Is anyone justifying Landy or just opining that as crap and criminal as he and his methods were, they can appear to have gotten a low bar result (ie. Brian didn't die). A stopped clock kind of thing kind of maybe.

Just as I believe people ought to lay off Melinda, I believe we ought to lay off the family. We don't know what they have had to deal with and we haven't walked that mile in their shoes.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Emily on April 09, 2016, 04:47:51 PM
Sorry. I thought there was a general consensus that slavery's wrong. My mistake.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: SMiLE Brian on April 09, 2016, 04:51:27 PM
Lock the thread now! :lol


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cam Mott on April 09, 2016, 05:41:22 PM
Sorry. I thought there was a general consensus that slavery's wrong. My mistake.

If this a  reply to me, I don't think I understand you or you didn't understand me.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on April 09, 2016, 05:43:47 PM
Lock the thread now! :lol

Tempted, but there are other things in the thread that are pending.

For now.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Cyncie on April 09, 2016, 05:52:29 PM
Just my perspective on things: This is family and family gets messy sometimes, especially when you add business into the mix. Brian was not only the husband-brother-cousin-son, but was also the mastermind behind their band's success. Where Brian went, the Beach Boys went. And the Beach Boys had personal and financial responsibilities of their own, that were actually dependent on Brian. I would guess, in addition to the mounting stressors of mental illness and drug use, Brian just got tired of being considered a commodity and became even more difficult. So things got even messier, less supportive and less friendly.

Sure, Brian's health was important. Yes, his family loved him and missed the old Brian. But, they were all also dependent on him. Without Brian's hit-making name attached to a record contract, there was no contract, and without a contract there was no Beach Boys.

So, family, friends and business all get mushed into a big, desperate, personal and professional ball of "how to we get Brian back on track?

Enter Landy Phase One, which seemed to get the needed result: Husband, brother, son, and golden goose was improving and functional. Huzzah! But, then Landy gets greedy and out he goes. And, since Brian's issues were never really resolved, Brian eventually worsens.

Enter Landy Phase Two, and since Landy had not shown all of his cards yet, it's hard to fault the family for going with what worked before. But, this time things were a bit more drastic, since Landy was implementing his version of milieu therapy, which conveniently meant he'd be taking control of his patient's life in order to teach him how to cope and manage those stressors.

Apparently, for Brian, it took 9 years instead of the usual 18 months.  This is where, I think, maybe a few red flags should have been raised. But, Brian had lost weight. He was off the drugs. He said he was happy where he was. Maybe Carl and Audree actually loved him too much to rock the boat. He was alive, and that, in itself was something. The Beach Boys were having to find a way to make this dysfunctional family and band work without him, so if he liked it there, and he was still alive, it was surely much easier to just let it all go and move on.

It may have taken a while for the more disturbing aspects of Landy's relationship with Brian to surface: The improper use of medications, the personal and professional manipulation, the insinuation into all of his business dealings. And, by the time it did, it might of been hard to determine how much was by Brian's consent, and how much was through indirect (or direct) coercion. If Brian was consciously choosing to stay with Landy then they had no grounds to dismiss him, and dismissing him could potentially jeopardize Brian's continued mental health. If Brian wasn't mentally sound, they would have to prove, against Brian's protestations to the contrary, that he was being manipulated and was incapable of making the decision to stay.

It would seem that all took some time. Almost, too much time.


Of course, my perspective means nothing. I'll be interested in reading Brian's when the book comes out.





Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Lonely Summer on April 09, 2016, 07:25:39 PM
There was a good interview with Carl in Musician magazine, summer of 1983, where he was asked about recording with the group again, and he said something like "we could make a really good commercial record with another producer, but if you're talking Pet Sounds masterpiece quality, you're talking Brian with us. And yet I don't care if he makes records with us again, what I want for him is to have a happy, healthy life." I don't know if Carl felt differently back in 1976. It does seem someone was pushing Brian to be active in the band again in 76, maybe it was Landy, maybe it was Mike, maybe it was ....whoever. By 1983, things were much different.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on April 09, 2016, 11:06:51 PM
It does seem someone was pushing Brian to be active in the band again in 76, maybe it was Landy, maybe it was Mike, maybe it was ....whoever.

The "Brian's Back !" campaign was the brainchild of Steve Love.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Lonely Summer on April 10, 2016, 12:03:50 AM
It does seem someone was pushing Brian to be active in the band again in 76, maybe it was Landy, maybe it was Mike, maybe it was ....whoever.

The "Brian's Back !" campaign was the brainchild of Steve Love.
But everyone went along with it, right? Although Carl and Dennis were reported to have serious misgivings about the whole thing. And Mike said something to the effect "I'm not going on the road like some broken down rock star".


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on April 10, 2016, 12:07:16 AM
Correct. I get the strong feeling that there was also heavy pressure from Reprise to get Brian involved in new material, given the recent success Capitol had achieved with minimal outlay.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Lonely Summer on April 10, 2016, 10:11:58 PM
Correct. I get the strong feeling that there was also heavy pressure from Reprise to get Brian involved in new material, given the recent success Capitol had achieved with minimal outlay.
I believe it.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: HeyJude on April 11, 2016, 07:53:51 AM
Regarding "Brian's Back" (the "campaign", not the song), I'm curious, does anybody know how much this *specific* slogan was used in actual advertising or other press/media forums?

Other than the footage of someone holding is "Brian is back" sign up at a show, or Mike's song (recorded long after that initial summer 1976 promotional push, and never released anyway), I haven't seen a lot of posters or advertisements actually using the "Brian's Back" slogan. In fact, I'm struggling to recall any. I'm not an expert on mid-70s memorabilia either, so I don't know how prevalent the slogan was. But I know there was a lot of promo stuff for "15 Big Ones" (posters, kites, etc.), and most of the examples I can think or can find don't seem to have any "Brian's Back!" verbiage on it.

And it has *often* been described as an actual targeted promotional campaign with that slogan, rather than just a general promo push for Brian rejoining the band. It's often described in "PR" terms.

Was this more just a slogan pushed in press interviews rather than actual promotional materials? I'm not skeptical or incredulous about this; there may be a ton of ads I've never seen or don't remember.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Smilin Ed H on April 11, 2016, 09:39:15 AM
Brian's back: http://fridaynightboys300.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/brians-back.html


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Paul J B on April 12, 2016, 07:06:23 AM
HeyJude....For sure there was mention as I remember in around '76 my best friends brother (we were both BB fans at the time) mailed him an article from out of state that said either "Big Brother is Back" or "Brian's Back" in the headline. That was the first thing I had read about who was who in the Beach Boys, having just recently becoming a fan through Endless Summers success. It had a full color photo of the Boys with Brian. I have no idea what publication it was from but I do remember it.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: HeyJude on April 12, 2016, 07:53:05 AM
I'm sure the "Brian's Back" terminology has been used by fans and journalists. I'm just curious how much of a literal "slogan" it was on the part of the actual band and its management/PR. The "Brian's Back" thing seems to often be characterized as if they hired a PR and/or advertising agency and used "Brian's Back" as an actual ad campaign, as if it was like "Coke Is It!" or "The Television Event of a Lifetime!", etc. I'm curious if *that* was ever actually the case.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on April 12, 2016, 08:25:20 AM
There's a picture in Leaf's book of a "Brian's Back !" sticker, as printed by Reprise with the catalog number for 15 Big Ones on it.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: HeyJude on April 12, 2016, 08:29:52 AM
There's a picture in Leaf's book of a "Brian's Back !" sticker, as printed by Reprise with the catalog number for 15 Big Ones on it.

Ah, that's the sort of thing I've been talking about. That is firmly an actual advertising campaign.


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: SurfRiderHawaii on April 12, 2016, 11:32:13 AM
(http://ultimateclassicrock.com/files/2016/04/IAmBrianWilsonCover300.jpg?zc=1&s=0&a=t&q=89&w=300)

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/brian-wilson-memoir/


Title: Re: Brian's Book released October 11th
Post by: Smilin Ed H on April 12, 2016, 12:08:16 PM
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/read-an-excerpt-from-brian-wilsons-upcoming-memoir-20160411