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Smiley Smile Stuff => Brian Wilson Solo Albums => Topic started by: smile-holland on May 19, 2015, 01:38:26 AM



Title: No Pier Pressure
Post by: smile-holland on May 19, 2015, 01:38:26 AM
Discuss, review and rate No Pier Pressure, released April 2015


(http://i61.tinypic.com/o7oayg.jpg)


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: KDS on May 19, 2015, 05:35:48 AM
After living with No Pier Pressure for a month now, and listening to it several times, I'm comfortable rating the album as a high 4.  My rating is based on the 16 track version (I have the 18 track Target version, but since ITBOMM and L&M are bonus tracks, I'm not including them in my rating)

The album gets off to a great start with This Beauitful Day, similar to Think About the Days off TWGMTR. 

Then, we get into Runaway Dancer, a night at the club in a tropical resort, featuring Sebu.  I like the melody, and the song is hard to get out of your head.  But, that thumping EDM beat makes it hard for me to like the track. 

We get back on track with Whatever Happened, featuring Al Jardine on vocals.  More so than any other guest, Al Jardine's voice adds so much to this album. 

Back to the beach with Me & Him on track 4 - On the Island.  I didn't like the song on first listen, but it's grown on me (probably because the weather had gotten warmer).  Reminds me of late 70s / early 80s Jimmy Buffett.  Fun track. 

Next is Half Moon Bay, sort of a cross between Let's Go Away for Awhile and David Gilmour's Red Sky at Night (off On an Island).  Nice mood piece.

Track six is Our Special Love, another song that really grows on you.  Featuring Chris DeBurgh.....er....I mean Peter Collens. 

Al and David rejoin Brian for The Right Time, a more up tempo take on Lay Down Burden.  I will say here that NPP does a good job mixing the tempos of the 16 songs, making for a balanced listening experience.  This was the first track from the album I heard during the winter.  A good song. 

Brian and Kacey Musgraves give us some country pop on Guess You Had to Be There.  Like the Sebu track, this one doesn't work for me.  No offense to Kacey (nice voice), but just not my cup of tea.  I think it's the most un-Brian Wilson song on the album. 

Now, to the three extra deluxe tracks. 

I'm sure Don't Worry was meant to have a Motown feel, but with Joe Thomas at the helm, it feels like mid 80s Phil Collins to me.  To my ears, that's not really a bad thing as I like Phil Collins.  I like this song a lot as it's got a good hook, and a very positive vibe.

Next is the Summer Means New Love with lyrics, Somewhere Quiet (featuring Al uncredited).  At first, I thought this was a bad idea (kinda like the remakes on Imagination), but this works.  The lyrics fit the song well. 

I'm Feeling Sad is vintage Brian Wilson slice of life material.  An upbeat, fun song about feeling sad.  This track alone warrants buying the deluxe edition.

Tell Me Why is the one song that I think sounds a little repetitve.  Kinda sounds like Whatever Happened Part II.  Not a bad song.  Great vocals by Al really help the song out. 

Up next is my absolute favorite song on the album, and my Summer of 2015 anthem (I know this song will never catch on outside of the Bri-universe, but it's GREAT).  Blondie, Al, and Brian take us sailing away to white sand beaches.  What's not to like. 

One Kind of Love is next with its You Still Believe in Me like intro.  To me, this one takes a few listens, but when Brian gets to that chorus it's just wonderful.  I don't think I've mentioned yet that Brian's vocals on NPP might be the best of his solo career. 

Saturday Night is the last song with a guest star - fun's Nate Ruess.  And he does a fine job on this fun slice of summertime.  A perfect song for Saturday night with the one you love.  I think it's got a slight Strange World vibe.  To me, the most Brian Wilson sounding of the guest stars. 

Last Song closes out the album.  For the third straight album, Brian closes out with an attack to the heart strings (I think if you listened to Southern California, Summer's Gone, and Last Song back to back to back, your heart would literally melt).  Remind me to write a thank you card to Lana Del Ray for not showing up in the studio.  Nobody besides Brian Wilson, with his smoky aged voice, could've done this song justice.  A very emotional song, especially when you get to the repeat "There's never enough time for the ones that you love."  Very effective.  And a nice way to close out a memorable listening experience. 

Overall, a good mix of everything you'd want from a BW album in 2015.  Some emotional ballads, some upbeat love songs, some summertime/beach type material.  Cut the dance song, and the country pop, and it's close to perfect. 


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: rab2591 on May 19, 2015, 07:26:32 AM
My rating is based on the standard 13 track album. I can't stand that they dumped 3 bonus tracks in the middle of the album, kinda ruining the flow of the original track order. Besides Don't Worry (which is growing on me), I love the bonus tracks, but feel they should've just been tacked onto the end of the album.

This Beautiful Day: The most beautiful opener to any Beach Boys related album since Friends. I love the 'Summer's Gone' homage, and Brian's harmonies are kick ass. 5/5

Runaway Dancer: What I truly thought was going to be my least favorite track on the album has turned into one of my favorites. Listen deep into the track: it is simple, yet there are so many little things going on, be it percussion (finger snaps, cymbal taps), or reverb/echo from the synth. To me, this is Brian Wilson harkening back to his Love You days - he isn't giving a single f*** and he's enjoying every minute of it. This is a fantastic track with some great harmonies and chords. 5/5

Whatever Happened: Modern day Pet Sounds material right here. Brian sounds damn good, and the harmonies during the chorus are tremendous. One thing I really noticed is the bass during the chorus - has a great rhythmic feel, reminds me a lot of I Just Wasn't Made For These Times. This is the Beach Boys right here. 5/5

On The Island: Zooey sings this perfectly. One thing I noticed is that she is singing is a lackadaisical bossa nova style, yet I can understand perfectly each and every word she sings. Production, harmonies, lyrics all combine to make a truly unique and quirky song. It's not meant to be Pet Sounds material, just a nice relaxing jaunt to an island nation. 5/5

Half Moon Bay: A perfect song to put after On The Island. It's like the sun has set on Zooey's island and the listener is now laying in the sand in the dark listening to the waves crash under the stars. The production on this one is stellar: each instrument is given plenty of room on the mix, and thus it gives the song a wide open atmosphere. 5/5

Our Special Love: Though I liked it from the get-go, this one was a grower for me. The intro and outro were easily my favorite harmony sections of anything from Brian's solo career. But it took a while for me to truly appreciate Peter's section. I started listening more closely and found that there were harmonies strung all the hell over this track...Peal back the many layers of this song and you'll still find a harmony or two deep in the background. 4/5

The Right Time: My least favorite song on the album, but I still love it. Al sounds like he is 25 years old here. It's a simple tune but damn catchy. It has grown on me a bit since the album released. 4/5

Guess You Had To Be There: I have to respectfully disagree with KDS about this being the most un-Brian song on the album. To me, this is the modern day equivalent to 'Wouldn't It Be Nice'. It is bouncy, popish, stunning harmonies, and has some of the best lyrics on the album. I was thrown off when Kacey started singing, because after hearing Al take the lead on The Right Time it was quite jarring to hear a female country singer start off a BW song. But when Brian starts singing I can't help but smile. Of any song that had hit potential from NPP, this is it. 5/5

Tell Me Why: castanets, harpsichord, classic Brian Wilson harmonies...what's not to like? At the 2:00 mark there is a deep horn that plays on the bridge to the chorus - it's little things like this that are strewn all over this album that make it my favorite BW solo record...each verse, each chorus has something different and exciting in it. 'Tell Me Why' reminds me a little of the Imagination album - only this song has actual substance to it. 4/5

Sail Away: Blondie sounds crazy good on this, Al sounds mind-blowing. That chorus!! So many elements in this song that make it a classic BW tune....harmonica, accordion, layers upon layers of harmony. 5/5

One Kind of Love: This has become my favorite track on the album. This is probably Brian's best lead vocal in his whole solo career. The chords, production, harmonies - this is Brian at his best. Play this on a kickass sound system and blast it. 5/5

Saturday Night: I love the placement of this track...fits wonderfully between One Kind of Love and Last Song. Nate sounds unbelievably good on this track. Yet another great pocket-pop-symphony from Brian. 5/5

Last Song: I wish beyond belief that Brian had done the "la la la"s by himself. You can kinda hear him do it towards the end of the song, and it sounds brilliant. That being said, I really love this song. Production, lyrics, harmonies all flow together perfectly. Great closer to an amazing album.

The bonus tracks and the target bonus tracks are great. I'm Feeling Sad should've been part of the standard album it's that good.

Also want to add that No Pier Pressure is the most harmony-oriented Beach Boys related album since Sunflower....every song is drenched in layers of beautiful Brian Wilson harmony. Never before has a Brian Wilson solo album been full of so many pop masterpieces. We got a glimpse of his ability to still write bouncy pocket symphonies with Good Kind of Love from TLOS, but this album is chock full of them. After a month of listening, I can confidently say that this is my favorite Beach Boys related album since Friends. The production, harmonies, songwriting, majority of the songs being 2-3 minute pocket symphonies, it all culminates into one incredible album.

Overall I give No Pier Pressure a 5/5


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: Douchepool on August 14, 2015, 10:13:03 PM
1.5.

Maybe in my old age I'm becoming more and more particular about Brian's solo career or I've just not been connecting with the music of late. Either way, this album ends up being WAY less than the sum of its parts. If any of this was also worked on at the time of That's Why God Made the Radio and then expanded on later, well...I think it speaks volumes why it was left off of that album. Sometimes things are better left unreleased.

But this album...? What is this...that stands before me?!

No, it should not have been this bad. Gettin' in Over My Head was ungodly, BWPS' K-Tel repackage style is irrelevant to my ears (thankfully), That Lucky Old Sun was woefully inconsistent, and the fucking Disney album needs no other description. No Pier Pressure is on a level of horribleness equaled only by the Disney album, Gettin' in Over My Head, Keepin' the Summer Alive, and Country Love.

And GOD...Runaway Dancer.

Seriously...I cannot put into words just how much of a steaming turd Runaway Dancer truly is. It sounds like a third-rate modern pop ripoff and Brian seems bored to my ears. When guys like MGMT and such are making relevant electronic pop music with very obvious Brian influences, hearing Brian try the same with this kind of result is just not happening for me. Coming off the heels of This Beautiful Day (easily a classic in a Meant For You mold), Runaway Dancer immediately leaves a bad taste in my mouth and it doesn't leave for the rest of the album. It just KILLS the momentum.

Many of the songs sound the same. Sure, Imagination was slick but at least it was DIVERSE. When the songs get really bad in the middle of the record (the triumvirate of songs exclusive to the deluxe edition come to mind) the monotonous sameness of the tracks becomes tiresome. Hearing Al on Tell Me Why is such a relief. Thank your deity of choice for Al, Blondie, and David on their tracks here. They're the closest we'll ever get to new Beach Boys tracks and given the surroundings it's no wonder; the best songs were saved for their performances. The other guest spots positively reek of Brian being a hired vocalist on someone else's song despite having co-written all of them - there are OK results (Guess You Had To Be There), filler (Saturday Night, On the Island), and utter, complete sh*t (Runaway Dancer).

Credit where it's due, of course...This Beautiful Day and The Right Time are classic Brian Wilson. What Ever Happened and One Kind of Love are very good. Sail Away is an OK song made good by Al and Blondie's excellent vocals.

I REALLY wanted to love this album. I really didn't think Brian had another Gettin' in Over My Head in him. But the Beach Boys have always been known for surprising us fans, and sometimes those surprises include pulling the rug out from under the listener. This is as bad as Gettin' in Over My Head was...and Brian was actually giving it a better stab this time around. This wasn't supposed to be just an album to placate a record label. What ever happened?


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: Mike's Beard on August 15, 2015, 02:01:43 AM
Time to back up those steaming pile of dogshit comments.
(Deep breath)

This Beautiful Day Standard opener to anything Brian does these days. Nice enough.
Runaway Dancer Am I strange in that I really like Runaway Dancer? Got a Hall & Oates vibe to it which is something I never thought I'd be using to describe a Brian Wilson track. Shame Brian sounds like he's just woke up.
What Ever Happened Speaking of which, this track makes me sleepy. A 'modern' Pet Sounds inspired track = YAWN.
On the Island A nice laid back bit of fluff. The vocals could have done with more work.
Half Moon Bay Boring filler.
Our Special Love This needs to have a steel cage deathmatch with Wrinkles to determine the title of worst BB solo track ever. At least Mike had the good grace not to release Wrinkles.
The Right Time A good song and the obvious single. Al sounds great even if his voice seems to have been hit with the tuna stick in places.
Guess You Had to Be There A slightly catchy melody can't save this from being a horrible modern country song.
Tell Me Why is Pet Sounds meets power ballad, with horrific results.
Sail Away. I really liked this when it first leaked but went off it rather quickly. It's OK I guess. That could have been anyone singing on the opening verse because Blondie no longer sounds like Blondie.
One Kind of Love This could have been a classic but Otto Chune still thinks the year is 1987 and turned it into a cheesy power ballad.
Saturday Night Sounds like a reject to a tacky 90s sitcom themetune. Having the guy from .Fun only adds to the misery.
The Last Song The Last Song is the bastard love child of Bruce Johnston and Dennis Wilson at their most sappy. This tries to be another Summer's Gone but fails to do so. And those 'La, la, las'? Ugh.

I will say a big plus is Matt Jardine's vocals are much better then Jeff Foskett's custom shriek. Still, better backing vocals can only do so much in the face of stilted songwriting and godawful production choices.

I'd say 1.5/5 is about right.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: AdrianHula on September 07, 2015, 11:25:39 AM
Some absolutely fabulous songs here but am I the only person who believes the bonus tracks on the deluxe edition, and capitol could have done this, should have been a seperate 7 " or CD and definitely listed as seperate tracks?

The regular 13 track edition of the albums flows so much better than the deluxe edition all streaming and download sites present a listener with


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: Compost on September 07, 2015, 12:27:29 PM
2.

Definitely the last blind BW buy for me.  Possibly the last BW buy period.  It's just not good listening in 2015.  Needs a new producer and needs to be allowed to either do whatever the hell he wants or nothing at all.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: Lonely Summer on September 13, 2015, 12:08:08 AM
Seemed like this got nothing but raves the first couple weeks it was out. Glad to see I'm not the only one who is unmoved by this latest attempt to make Brian seem relevant to today's record buyers.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: Mike's Beard on September 13, 2015, 02:46:46 AM
Seemed like this got nothing but raves the first couple weeks it was out. Glad to see I'm not the only one who is unmoved by this latest attempt to make Brian seem relevant to today's record buyers.

(http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2015/02/simpsons-pitchforks.jpg)
"HE DOESN'T LIKE NPP!!! GET HIM!!!"


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: Douchepool on September 13, 2015, 08:23:14 PM
OFF WITH HIS HEAD!


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: rab2591 on September 14, 2015, 05:18:43 AM
Frankly, quite a few posters here had some rational arguments as to why they disliked aspects of this album, and it's totally respectable. No one got pissed off when posters here were open about their reasons for disliking the album. In fact some good discussions took place and we learned a lot about the album during these conversations. I think the only qualms some people here had were when the posters with 1-2 posts under their belt left one sentence "reviews" about how crap the album was and when the album was called a "steaming pile of dogshit".

When people act like adults regarding a piece of art Brian spent months (years) making, even if they totally dislike the art, they'll get treated like adults.

No one here was raising pitchforks to the low star reviews in this thread...so why try to veer things off topic? It's been a great week for Beach Boys fandom, Mike did one of the best interviews we've seen from him, Brian/Al/Blondie just played a phenomenal concert, this place has seemingly gone without some sort of argument for over a week now - let's try to keep this positivity going.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: phirnis on September 14, 2015, 07:37:41 AM
Tell Me Why is the only song I really like here and The Right Time, though 'BW by numbers' in many ways, is quite enjoyable too. I absolutely love BW88 and both TLOS + BWRG had their moments but other than that I think Brian's solo stuff has always been sort of lacking. NPP is a lot like Imagination but sounds even more polished, if that's possible. It's always strange to hear his weathered voice (which I think can still sound expressive and soulful!) against these MOR backing tracks. The combination feels kind of awkward to me and I think he'd do much better if the tracks sounded more like I'm Broke or similar stuff from the Paley sessions. Maybe that's just a personal preference, though. 2/5 for me.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: Wirestone on September 14, 2015, 08:56:30 AM
 ::)


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 14, 2015, 11:26:08 AM
Frankly, quite a few posters here had some rational arguments as to why they disliked aspects of this album, and it's totally respectable. No one got pissed off when posters here were open about their reasons for disliking the album. In fact some good discussions took place and we learned a lot about the album during these conversations. I think the only qualms some people here had were when the posters with 1-2 posts under their belt left one sentence "reviews" about how crap the album was and when the album was called a "steaming pile of dogshit".

When people act like adults regarding a piece of art Brian spent months (years) making, even if they totally dislike the art, they'll get treated like adults.

No one here was raising pitchforks to the low star reviews in this thread...so why try to veer things off topic? It's been a great week for Beach Boys fandom, Mike did one of the best interviews we've seen from him, Brian/Al/Blondie just played a phenomenal concert, this place has seemingly gone without some sort of argument for over a week now - let's try to keep this positivity going.

Great post, agreed 100%. Talk about finding a straw man argument when an actual issue never existed...


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: Lonely Summer on September 15, 2015, 10:42:32 PM
Tell Me Why is the only song I really like here and The Right Time, though 'BW by numbers' in many ways, is quite enjoyable too. I absolutely love BW88 and both TLOS + BWRG had their moments but other than that I think Brian's solo stuff has always been sort of lacking. NPP is a lot like Imagination but sounds even more polished, if that's possible. It's always strange to hear his weathered voice (which I think can still sound expressive and soulful!) against these MOR backing tracks. The combination feels kind of awkward to me and I think he'd do much better if the tracks sounded more like I'm Broke or similar stuff from the Paley sessions. Maybe that's just a personal preference, though. 2/5 for me.
There was a time when the prospect of a BW solo album was something I found very exciting. Now...not so much. I'll take Sweet Insanity over the new stuff.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: caseyhardmeyer on September 25, 2015, 12:08:36 PM
I cannot believe NPP has this many fives. Percentage wise, this album has a higher favorability rating on this site than Surf's Up. I assume my review on PopMatters didn't go over too well...


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: rab2591 on September 25, 2015, 01:21:30 PM
I cannot believe NPP has this many fives. Percentage wise, this album has a higher favorability rating on this site than Surf's Up. I assume my review on PopMatters didn't go over too well...

13 people gave it 5 stars. Is it really that hard to believe that 13 people like this album a lot? The people that didn't like this album probably don't care enough about it to waste their time reviewing or rating it. Also, given that the NPP poll has only been up for 4 months and the Surf's Up review thread has been up for almost 10 years, I'd say give it a bit more time for the numbers to even out.

As for your Popmatters review; I don't think too many people cared specifically about your review. I thought it was satire actually, given how much you got wrong in the article. It honestly sounded like you were just making fun of the people who were knocking the album. If you were being serious, I'll clear up some glaringly obvious faults with your review...

For instance, Runaway Dancer is indeed a Brian Wilson track - he recorded a demo track with Joe back in 1998 and according to people who would know the track didn't change much at all. I think Sebu helped add some synths and other things, but much of the track is the same concept from the 90s.

Quote
Would he invite Zooey Deschanel, or that guy who was on that Pink song from a few years ago to do guest spots? No, because he doesn’t know who those people are, nor should he.

Actually there is a history between Zooey and Brian, she even interviewed Brian quite a few years ago, it can be found on Youtube. No doubt he had heard her Wouldn't It Be Nice cover.

Quote
But alas, the man has bills to pay and family to support, so he signed off on this thing.

Ahh of course because he's not making enough from the Beach Boy royalties...he's scrounging up those pennies and dimes to feed his hungry children.

Quote
If anyone has seen an interview or spoken with Brian these last five or ten years, you know that this is a man who is simply not interested in making music anymore, and he doesn’t need to be.

People who have actually spoken with Brian said he was amped up nearly every day to get to the studio to record for NPP. He worked his ass off for months in the studio before this was released, polishing and getting each sound right.

edit: actually just found an even better breakdown of your review from the poster Wirestone: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,20283.msg510064.html#msg510064 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,20283.msg510064.html#msg510064)

Again, pardon if I completely misread your review; if it was satire just ignore the above. If not, next time you do a review and rip an artist to shreds, do 10 minutes of research on the World Wide Web before you open that Word application.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: caseyhardmeyer on September 25, 2015, 01:59:19 PM
I cannot believe NPP has this many fives. Percentage wise, this album has a higher favorability rating on this site than Surf's Up. I assume my review on PopMatters didn't go over too well...

13 people gave it 5 stars. Is it really that hard to believe that 13 people like this album a lot? The people that didn't like this album probably don't care enough about it to waste their time reviewing or rating it. Also, given that the NPP poll has only been up for 4 months and the Surf's Up review thread has been up for almost 10 years, I'd say give it a bit more time for the numbers to even out.

As for your Popmatters review; I don't think too many people cared specifically about your review. I thought it was satire actually, given how much you got wrong in the article. It honestly sounded like you were just making fun of the people who were knocking the album. If you were being serious, I'll clear up some glaringly obvious faults with your review...

For instance, Runaway Dancer is indeed a Brian Wilson track - he recorded a demo track with Joe back in 1998 and according to people who would know the track didn't change much at all. I think Sebu helped add some synths and other things, but much of the track is the same concept from the 90s.

Quote
Would he invite Zooey Deschanel, or that guy who was on that Pink song from a few years ago to do guest spots? No, because he doesn’t know who those people are, nor should he.

Actually there is a history between Zooey and Brian, she even interviewed Brian quite a few years ago, it can be found on Youtube. No doubt he had heard her Wouldn't It Be Nice cover.

Quote
But alas, the man has bills to pay and family to support, so he signed off on this thing.

Ahh of course because he's not making enough from the Beach Boy royalties...he's scrounging up those pennies and dimes to feed his hungry children.

Quote
If anyone has seen an interview or spoken with Brian these last five or ten years, you know that this is a man who is simply not interested in making music anymore, and he doesn’t need to be.

People who have actually spoken with Brian said he was amped up nearly every day to get to the studio to record for NPP. He worked his ass off for months in the studio before this was released, polishing and getting each sound right.

edit: actually just found an even better breakdown of your review from the poster Wirestone: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,20283.msg510064.html#msg510064 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,20283.msg510064.html#msg510064)

Again, pardon if I completely misread your review; if it was satire just ignore the above. If not, next time you do a review and rip an artist to shreds, do 10 minutes of research on the World Wide Web before you open that Word application.

If you are of a mind to give this record 5 stars then that's a good sign that no amount of logic or facts could possibly sway you.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: rab2591 on September 25, 2015, 02:53:03 PM
Sway what?

You wrote a "review" littered with incorrect facts. I, and Wirestone, corrected those facts for you based off of information from people who actually know Brian...information easily accessible from the internet.

And knocking my taste in music? Taste varies, slugger.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: The Cincinnati Kid on September 25, 2015, 03:02:54 PM
I cannot believe NPP has this many fives. Percentage wise, this album has a higher favorability rating on this site than Surf's Up. I assume my review on PopMatters didn't go over too well...

13 people gave it 5 stars. Is it really that hard to believe that 13 people like this album a lot? The people that didn't like this album probably don't care enough about it to waste their time reviewing or rating it. Also, given that the NPP poll has only been up for 4 months and the Surf's Up review thread has been up for almost 10 years, I'd say give it a bit more time for the numbers to even out.

As for your Popmatters review; I don't think too many people cared specifically about your review. I thought it was satire actually, given how much you got wrong in the article. It honestly sounded like you were just making fun of the people who were knocking the album. If you were being serious, I'll clear up some glaringly obvious faults with your review...

For instance, Runaway Dancer is indeed a Brian Wilson track - he recorded a demo track with Joe back in 1998 and according to people who would know the track didn't change much at all. I think Sebu helped add some synths and other things, but much of the track is the same concept from the 90s.

Quote
Would he invite Zooey Deschanel, or that guy who was on that Pink song from a few years ago to do guest spots? No, because he doesn’t know who those people are, nor should he.

Actually there is a history between Zooey and Brian, she even interviewed Brian quite a few years ago, it can be found on Youtube. No doubt he had heard her Wouldn't It Be Nice cover.

Quote
But alas, the man has bills to pay and family to support, so he signed off on this thing.

Ahh of course because he's not making enough from the Beach Boy royalties...he's scrounging up those pennies and dimes to feed his hungry children.

Quote
If anyone has seen an interview or spoken with Brian these last five or ten years, you know that this is a man who is simply not interested in making music anymore, and he doesn’t need to be.

People who have actually spoken with Brian said he was amped up nearly every day to get to the studio to record for NPP. He worked his ass off for months in the studio before this was released, polishing and getting each sound right.

edit: actually just found an even better breakdown of your review from the poster Wirestone: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,20283.msg510064.html#msg510064 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,20283.msg510064.html#msg510064)

Again, pardon if I completely misread your review; if it was satire just ignore the above. If not, next time you do a review and rip an artist to shreds, do 10 minutes of research on the World Wide Web before you open that Word application.

If you are of a mind to give this record 5 stars then that's a good sign that no amount of logic or facts could possibly sway you.

I don't think this is a 5 star album, so how about addressing those points for me?


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: caseyhardmeyer on September 25, 2015, 05:49:24 PM
1. Brian Wilson and Zooey Deschanel must be friends because they did a youtube video together once. Yes, I'm sure that wasn't a PR stunt or anything like that. She covered one of his songs, of course he knows her, just like Brian is friends with every one of the thousands of artists that have covered his music! You win that one!

2. Brian doesn't need money, he's got Beach Boys royalties. Exactly, it's not like he's obligated to fulfill his record contract with Capitol or face legal penalties and I'm sure he doesn't have money tied up in lots of different places like most wealthy people with big families and lawyers and managers and all that stuff. He never needs income ever again! You win round two I guess :(

3. Yes, this officially released behind the scenes video shows him fully engrossed in the record-making process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPHPYULAS1k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPHPYULAS1k)
Joe Thomas is conspicuously absent from the video, which must mean Brian was the ONLY one in the booth during the making of the entire record! And Brian clearly thought high enough of the material to leave most of the singing to guest spots. I read it on a source that is "easily available on the internet". You win again!

btw I found it funny most people took it as an attack on Brian. Clearly the targets were Joe Thomas and his horribly schlocky production (which was almost universally panned) but I guess it's hard for people to realize that their favorite artist can turn out a dismal product. Truth hurts folks.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: rab2591 on September 25, 2015, 06:40:33 PM
1. Brian Wilson and Zooey Deschanel must be friends because they did a youtube video together once. Yes, I'm sure that wasn't a PR stunt or anything like that. She covered one of his songs, of course he knows her, just like Brian is friends with every one of the thousands of artists that have covered his music! You win that one!

2. Brian doesn't need money, he's got Beach Boys royalties. Exactly, it's not like he's obligated to fulfill his record contract with Capitol or face legal penalties and I'm sure he doesn't have money tied up in lots of different places like most wealthy people with big families and lawyers and managers and all that stuff. He never needs income ever again! You win round two I guess :(

3. Yes, this officially released behind the scenes video shows him fully engrossed in the record-making process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPHPYULAS1k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPHPYULAS1k)
Joe Thomas is conspicuously absent from the video, which must mean Brian was the ONLY one in the booth during the making of the entire record! And Brian clearly thought high enough of the material to leave most of the singing to guest spots. I read it on a source that is "easily available on the internet". You win again!

1. Did I claim they were friends? Stop putting words in my mouth. From what I recall Zooey is the daughter of an old friend of Brian's (and if I recall correctly the exact story is that Brian's family babysat Zooey when she was a kid). Either way, you claimed Brian didn't know who she was - you were proven wrong. Surprise.

2. He never needs income again? You're claiming i'm implying that absurd statement? Yet again, don't put words in my mouth (you really have a knack for skewing/ignoring the truth, eh?). Also, like most wealthy people who have to pay managers/lawyers I'm sure Brian's money is invested heavily in things other than music. You and I both know absolutely nothing about Brian's financials, difference between you and I is that I'm not writing this bullshit in Popmatters.

3. Well if you don't trust sources who actually talk to Brian on a regular basis then this conversation is useless.

Quote
btw I found it funny most people took it as an attack on Brian. Clearly the targets were Joe Thomas and his horribly schlocky production (which was almost universally panned) but I guess it's hard for people to realize that their favorite artist can turn out a dismal product. Truth hurts folks.

You find it funny that people took your pitiful review as an attack on Brian? Dude, read your hack piece again. You compare Brian to an old grandpa who is wheeled out by his daughter at Thanksgiving dinner and forced to make a speech to the family. No, that's not degrading to Brian at all...jeesh. You say straight out "there is a very special kind of knot that appears in their stomach each time someone decides to drag out Brian Wilson for another go-around." implying that Brian has no control over his life, that he is forced to make music, or as you so eloquently put it "sign off" on it.

Next time you write one of these things, actually research the facts before spouting nonsense. And possibly spend more than two sentences talking about the music itself. Then maybe you won't have to spend your time childishly berating someones music taste because they corrected a slew of facts from one of your reviews.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: Wirestone on September 25, 2015, 08:22:23 PM
It's amusing that a reviewer -- anyone, really -- would find it worthy of comment that members of an artist's fan board would be inclined to enjoy that artist's music. It's like going to the Eric Clapton fan board and asking incredulously why the members like guitar solos and gave five-star reviews to "Old Sock."


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: Niko on September 25, 2015, 09:19:06 PM
This guy is totally the kind of person who writes reviews - he has a very simple, black and white way of thinking. If I could go back and not have a read a single word written by him, I would.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: caseyhardmeyer on September 26, 2015, 12:12:25 PM
You folks may need a reminder that an album review is not a scientific document, it is not a legal document, it is not a research paper, but it is an opinion piece that is equal parts personal experience, conjecture and, in my case anyway, a historical examination through the lens of a consumer. If everything I wrote was wrong, or slanderous, I would have been contacted long ago to make corrections or remove the article outright (believe me, managers, and particularly labels, are VERY quick to go after journos for negative reviews, even if they have no grounds for doing so. London electronic label Hyperdub threatened an editor of mine recently because I thought Jessy Lanza's EP contained "filler").

But of course, we never received anything like that from Capitol or Brian's team. Probably because they too knew the product was weak (if you think I wrote the sole harsh review please look again) and they knew there was nothing legally dubious about what I was saying.

And above all else, I would encourage you to have a sense of humor. Opinion pieces are meant to be provocative, album reviews are no exception. You can't review an album like Consumer Reports reviews a vacuum because music is ENTIRELY subjective, there is nothing more pompous than a dissection of a pop album that presents itself as anything but one dude/lady's opinion.

The Beach Boys are my favorite band, and they have been for a decade now. And if there's one thing I've learned about loving this group, and Brian, is that being a BBs fan is very frustrating. My review is a reflection of those frustrations, and in more general terms it's also about the complexities of fandom.

I commented on this thread originally to express my personal shock about how highly this album is thought of by fans, because in my listening experience, there isn't anything on NPP that resembles what has always attracted me to his music. I don't listen to BBs/BW to hear Kacey Musgraves, to hear autotuned vocals, or to hear disco (Didn't they learn ANYTHING from Here Comes Comes the Night???). I listen to hear Brian and, in regards to the Beach Boys, his brothers, cousin and friend. I hear way too little of Brian on NPP.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 26, 2015, 12:32:02 PM
You folks may need a reminder that an album review is not a scientific document, it is not a legal document, it is not a research paper, but it is an opinion piece that is equal parts personal experience, conjecture and, in my case anyway, a historical examination through the lens of a consumer. If everything I wrote was wrong, or slanderous, I would have been contacted long ago to make corrections or remove the article outright (believe me, managers, and particularly labels, are VERY quick to go after journos for negative reviews, even if they have no grounds for doing so. London electronic label Hyperdub threatened an editor of mine recently because I thought Jessy Lanza's EP contained "filler").

But of course, we never received anything like that from Capitol or Brian's team. Probably because they too knew the product was weak (if you think I wrote the sole harsh review please look again) and they knew there was nothing legally dubious about what I was saying.

And above all else, I would encourage you to have a sense of humor. Opinion pieces are meant to be provocative, album reviews are no exception. You can't review an album like Consumer Reports reviews a vacuum because music is ENTIRELY subjective, there is nothing more pompous than a dissection of a pop album that presents itself as anything but one dude/lady's opinion.

The Beach Boys are my favorite band, and they have been for a decade now. And if there's one thing I've learned about loving this group, and Brian, is that being a BBs fan is very frustrating. My review is a reflection of those frustrations, and in more general terms it's also about the complexities of fandom.

I commented on this thread originally to express my personal shock about how highly this album is thought of by fans, because in my listening experience, there isn't anything on NPP that resembles what has always attracted me to his music. I don't listen to BBs/BW to hear Kacey Musgraves, to hear autotuned vocals, or to hear disco (Didn't they learn ANYTHING from Here Comes Comes the Night???). I listen to hear Brian and, in regards to the Beach Boys, his brothers, cousin and friend. I hear way too little of Brian on NPP.


The issue is that you made statements in the review which were untrue yet you seemed to be suggesting they were factual in the context of your review (including the follow-up replies posted here), and some responding here know the statements are untrue and corrected them. If the review originally were simply whether you liked or disliked the album, and the reasons why, there would be no problems with that. People would either agree or disagree with the opinions you shared. But considering there are people who know the facts, and they've corrected what was wrong in your review (and posts here), why not accept that some of the statements you made as fact in the review were wrong and leave it at that?


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ontor pertawst on September 26, 2015, 12:36:17 PM
"But of course, we never received anything like that from Capitol or Brian's team."

Er, possibly because they have bigger fish to fry? Don't flatter yourself, sir.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 26, 2015, 12:39:10 PM
Just wanted to add - There are statements in the original review which are in fact wrong and can be proven so, whether or not the Wilson family contacted anyone or the publication itself, and they have been corrected by people here in this thread based on the actual facts, not opinions or conjecture. The issue is giving readers of the publication at least an accurate, factual version of events whether it's humor or conjecture or anything else in between, and readers of this review did not get that accuracy, in fact they got a pretty unfair version considering it wasn't as factual as it should have been.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 26, 2015, 12:52:42 PM
Brian and Zooey's dad Caleb Deschanel filming the Good Vibrations promo film in fall 1966. Suitable for framing... ;D

(http://api.ning.com/files/0GsOkR3zV0JX1Jd*Of*tiwlEyPn-pp3hshb90gCpUuMuvFywJOOMkrijAXyk1GYtpNzcoKvDZRrG*7kGKieCK-30qRPxjdJd/brianwilsonandzooeysdad.jpg)


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: caseyhardmeyer on September 26, 2015, 12:53:50 PM
The issue is that you made statements in the review which were untrue yet you seemed to be suggesting they were factual in the context of your review (including the follow-up replies posted here), and some responding here know the statements are untrue and corrected them. If the review originally were simply whether you liked or disliked the album, and the reasons why, there would be no problems with that. People would either agree or disagree with the opinions you shared. But considering there are people who know the facts, and they've corrected what was wrong in your review (and posts here), why not accept that some of the statements you made as fact in the review were wrong and leave it at that?

Someone who knows the facts has not corrected me, someone who thinks they know the facts has corrected me. There's a big difference. If you've read Catch a Wave by Peter Ames Carlin (a writer I've spoken with about the Beach Boys, who lives in my city, and who worked at the Oregonian newspaper, where my review was also published), you'd know that during the Imagination sessions with Joe Thomas in the late '90s Brian had very little to do with the final product, per those involved. An excerpt from Carlin's book reads:

"Joe took it upon himself to make sure that the new songs sounded as adult contemporary radio as possible. Most were dominated by tinkling keyboards, with plenty of melodic interjections from a gently plucked nylon-string guitar. If Brian tried to use an instrument or an arrangement that might not fit into the soothing blend, Joe would shake his head and slice it out of the picture. And if this bothered Brian, he didn't show it." P. 292

"...Brian reportedly stated: "We call it a Brian Wilson album, but it's really a Joe Thomas/Brian Wilson album." P. 292

Brian and his team sued Thomas after the record came out and was universally panned, alleging that Thomas had taken too much control of their partnership, read about it here: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bad-vibrations-brian-wilson-sues-collaborator-19990824 (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bad-vibrations-brian-wilson-sues-collaborator-19990824)

I see nothing different about NPP than I do about Imagination, another record pockmarked by bad collaborations (Jimmy Buffet) and horrific adult contemporary production.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: rab2591 on September 26, 2015, 12:57:30 PM
Regardless that you weren't contacted by a lawyer, it doesn't change the fact that there were statements in your review that you got wrong (easily proven wrong). And I don't think anyone at all implied you had the only harsh review - but you were seemingly the only one to barely talk about the actual music itself. You are the only reviewer to come to a Brian Wilson/Beach Boys fan board and rip our taste in music, saying straight out that really liking this album means our concept of logic and facts are skewed. I think most other reviewers act professionally and have a bit more class than that.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 26, 2015, 01:02:31 PM
The issue is that you made statements in the review which were untrue yet you seemed to be suggesting they were factual in the context of your review (including the follow-up replies posted here), and some responding here know the statements are untrue and corrected them. If the review originally were simply whether you liked or disliked the album, and the reasons why, there would be no problems with that. People would either agree or disagree with the opinions you shared. But considering there are people who know the facts, and they've corrected what was wrong in your review (and posts here), why not accept that some of the statements you made as fact in the review were wrong and leave it at that?

Someone who knows the facts has not corrected me, someone who thinks they know the facts has corrected me. There's a big difference. If you've read Catch a Wave by Peter Ames Carlin (a writer I've spoken with about the Beach Boys, who lives in my city, and who worked at the Oregonian newspaper, where my review was also published), you'd know that during the Imagination sessions with Joe Thomas in the late '90s Brian had very little to do with the final product, per those involved. An excerpt from Carlin's book reads:

"Joe took it upon himself to make sure that the new songs sounded as adult contemporary radio as possible. Most were dominated by tinkling keyboards, with plenty of melodic interjections from a gently plucked nylon-string guitar. If Brian tried to use an instrument or an arrangement that might not fit into the soothing blend, Joe would shake his head and slice it out of the picture. And if this bothered Brian, he didn't show it." P. 292

"...Brian reportedly stated: "We call it a Brian Wilson album, but it's really a Joe Thomas/Brian Wilson album." P. 292

Brian and his team sued Thomas after the record came out and was universally panned, alleging that Thomas had taken too much control of their partnership, read about it here: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bad-vibrations-brian-wilson-sues-collaborator-19990824 (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bad-vibrations-brian-wilson-sues-collaborator-19990824)

I see nothing different about NPP than I do about Imagination, another record pockmarked by bad collaborations (Jimmy Buffet) and horrific adult contemporary production.

Read the interview posted in this link with the engineer at Ocean Way who worked on the album, concerning Brian's participation or as you're suggesting, non-participation, and consider that this album is NOT Imagination, as if connecting the two almost two decades apart from each other doesn't prove anything, no less back up an opinion of what was done.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18510.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18510.0.html)

Direct link to the piece in Mix magazine:
http://www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/brian-wilson-and-friends-ocean-way-studios/366563 (http://www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/brian-wilson-and-friends-ocean-way-studios/366563)


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: rab2591 on September 26, 2015, 01:21:53 PM
Someone who knows the facts has not corrected me, someone who thinks they know the facts has corrected me.

You claimed Brian didn't know who Zooey Deschanel was. Brian knew who Zooey Deschanel was before he started work on NPP. I actually know that fact because have the ability to search google and see with my own eyes that Brian was interviewed by her years before this album was even an idea. I don't "think" I know this fact. I actually know it.

Brian recorded a demo of Runaway Dancer in 1998 as told by a good friend of Brian's who has heard the track. Kacey Musgraves and Brian Wilson both wrote IGYHTBT together because Kacey talked about their collaboration in an interview. Thus your statement that this is a Brian Wilson album in name only is totally false.

You claimed every song on this album has shared credits with Joe Thomas. Read the CD liner notes, pal. He's not credited on every song. I don't "think" I know this fact, I actually know it.

Funny thing, you're defending your comments by calling them true because a lawyer hasn't contacted you. I'm defending my comments with actual facts. In your words:

Quote
There's a big difference.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: caseyhardmeyer on September 26, 2015, 01:31:39 PM

Read the interview posted in this link with the engineer at Ocean Way who worked on the album, concerning Brian's participation or as you're suggesting, non-participation, and consider that this album is NOT Imagination, as if connecting the two almost two decades apart from each other doesn't prove anything, no less back up an opinion of what was done.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18510.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18510.0.html)

Direct link to the piece in Mix magazine:
http://www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/brian-wilson-and-friends-ocean-way-studios/366563 (http://www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/brian-wilson-and-friends-ocean-way-studios/366563)

Interesting article. The first thing I noticed upon reading it, is that it doesn't contain the word "Joe" or "Thomas", but when you look at the album credits, I see the words "Joe" and "Thomas" quite a bit, in the producer credits and in every song credit (besides one) and these : additional mixing, acoustic piano, B3 organ, additional keyboards. (BTW if you have a CD copy, check out the list of all the engineers credited!)

I think I have something equally as interesting you might want to read. In June of 2014, Brian Wilson told the Irish Times: “I’ve had it with collaborators. I still work sometimes with Scott Bennett – he writes lyrics – but he’s the only one I work with." - Brian Wilson, June 2014

Now lets take note of when the album was recorded. The album credits (on my promo copy I received for review purposes) provide this information: Recorded in early 2013–November 2014.

So lets recap. Brian said, apparently in the middle of recording the record, and I quote:  “I’ve had it with collaborators."

Brian also mentioned: “I still work sometimes with Scott Bennett – he writes lyrics – but he’s the only one I work with."

Bennett has one co-write on NPP, maybe not so coincidentally, that song is also the only track Joe Thomas does NOT have a co-writing credit (One Kind of Love).

Read the article for yourself: http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/music/brian-wilson-s-united-states-of-music-1.1823177?page=3 (http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/music/brian-wilson-s-united-states-of-music-1.1823177?page=3)

I think we might eventually hear a different story about the making of this record in the near future.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 26, 2015, 01:42:48 PM
The story is "produced by Brian Wilson"


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: Wirestone on September 26, 2015, 02:31:21 PM
At the time, the review almost seemed like trolling, meant solely to push buttons.

The writer's subsequent behavior has confirmed that fact.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 26, 2015, 06:28:38 PM
The story is "produced by Brian Wilson"

And it's a true story too, unless Thomas learned to produce an album while not being present.  To play devil's advocate,  maybe he produced by phone or email, or learned how to be in two 0 places at once.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: caseyhardmeyer on September 26, 2015, 06:50:11 PM
The story is "produced by Brian Wilson"

And it's a true story too, unless Thomas learned to produce an album while not being present.  To play devil's advocate,  maybe he produced by phone or email, or learned how to be in two 0 places at once.

So now you're denying Joe Thomas co-produced this record?

Go to this link: http://www.allmusic.com/album/no-pier-pressure-mw0002760473/credits (http://www.allmusic.com/album/no-pier-pressure-mw0002760473/credits)

"Joe Thomas   Composer, Hammond B3, Keyboards, Mixing, Piano, Producer"

On my promo CD he is officially credited as co-producer.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 26, 2015, 10:03:52 PM
The story is "produced by Brian Wilson"

And it's a true story too, unless Thomas learned to produce an album while not being present.  To play devil's advocate,  maybe he produced by phone or email, or learned how to be in two 0 places at once.

So now you're denying Joe Thomas co-produced this record?

Go to this link: http://www.allmusic.com/album/no-pier-pressure-mw0002760473/credits (http://www.allmusic.com/album/no-pier-pressure-mw0002760473/credits)

"Joe Thomas   Composer, Hammond B3, Keyboards, Mixing, Piano, Producer"

On my promo CD he is officially credited as co-producer.

Cause credits are never wrong  ::)

Okay...I'm going to try to be nice, because you haven't been here long and have no idea who I am, so apologies if this comes out rough...

My info is based on discussions who people who played on the record, and others who were present during the making of the record. Thomas was much more involved during the very early stages of recording. How early? Well, back when a certain J. Beck was still attached to the project. That fell apart (and thankfully so, according to many), and the album took a much different turn. Around that time, Thomas's involvement decreased by no small amount. I have to check my dates but after a certain point, Thomas had 'other engagements' that pretty much have continued to this day (take that how ever you wish, but a certain guy who used to have a mullet with the initials JT can confirm for you his activities and whereabouts, if you'd like...)

Like or dislike the album (it's all opinion)but make sure you know what you are talking about first (an important thing to remember for a journalist, print or otherwise).


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: Niko on September 27, 2015, 12:03:50 AM
If JT co-produced just one track, he would still be listed as co-producer on the album. He and Brian have a long standing relationship.

Billy it's also my understanding he was not very involved in NPP aside from the co-writing of the tracks. I think Casey saw what was posted here about his popmatters review and joined not to discuss anything, but ruffle feathers for the sake of it.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 27, 2015, 01:12:21 AM
If JT co-produced just one track, he would still be listed as co-producer on the album. He and Brian have a long standing relationship.

Billy it's also my understanding he was not very involved in NPP aside from the co-writing of the tracks. I think Casey saw what was posted here about his popmatters review and joined not to discuss anything, but ruffle feathers for the sake of it.


Correct (on all counts )


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: caseyhardmeyer on September 27, 2015, 10:25:30 AM
If JT co-produced just one track, he would still be listed as co-producer on the album. He and Brian have a long standing relationship.

Billy it's also my understanding he was not very involved in NPP aside from the co-writing of the tracks. I think Casey saw what was posted here about his popmatters review and joined not to discuss anything, but ruffle feathers for the sake of it.

So what you're saying is, "he wasn't very involved with NPP, he just co-wrote every track except one."

Sounds pretty involved to me. Also, I never knew people's thoughts on the PM review until someone was kind enough to show them to me. I came here because I thought this was a place to discuss the Beach Boys' music with other fans. I guess I was wrong?


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: Niko on September 27, 2015, 10:30:03 AM
I think its pretty clear the point we were all making was that JT wasn't involved in the production of the album. He co-wrote the tracks but that's it. You know this but you keep arguing for some reason.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 27, 2015, 11:38:16 AM
If JT co-produced just one track, he would still be listed as co-producer on the album. He and Brian have a long standing relationship.

Billy it's also my understanding he was not very involved in NPP aside from the co-writing of the tracks. I think Casey saw what was posted here about his popmatters review and joined not to discuss anything, but ruffle feathers for the sake of it.

So what you're saying is, "he wasn't very involved with NPP, he just co-wrote every track except one."

Sounds pretty involved to me. Also, I never knew people's thoughts on the PM review until someone was kind enough to show them to me. I came here because I thought this was a place to discuss the Beach Boys' music with other fans. I guess I was wrong?

How could you not know people's thoughts on the PM review if you replied to some of those reactions on your own review 6 months ago (reposted below for reference)? And why restart the debate 6 months later, on this board, out of nowhere?

This can be a place to discuss the music with other fans if people want to do so, sure. So far all you seem to have been doing here is arguing something that hasn't been an issue for months, and refusing to concede any points that people here who actually know the real story have been offering.



Guest • 6 months ago

Hey all, I'm the author of the above article. I think some of y'all are forgetting that, like ALL reviews, these are opinions. So it is my OPINION that Brian had very little to do with this record, and I stand by that claim. I really don't care what Brian's PR team has cooked up to suggest that this was his work, it's evident in the production and the songs themselves that this is a Joe Thomas record with guest star Brian Wilson (is it even possible to guest star on your own record??). Look at the writing credits, Joe Thomas has a credit on all but one song, and several songs have 3 or more writers credited. Also, it's in Brian's contract that he must be given a producer credit on all records with his name on them, so it is highly unlikely he has anything to do with the abysmal sound on this album (I also find it mean-spirited that they had to get a shot of Brian aimlessly pushing the sliders around on the mixing board in the above promo video, in some sort of claim that Brian actually did any producing or engineering). The fact that some Beach Boys fans are lapping this album up is quite sad actually. I mean sure, it's probably a great album if you're the kind of person that finds Jimmy Buffett too experimental, but otherwise, its a sham.

-Casey



Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: rab2591 on September 27, 2015, 12:27:24 PM
I came here because I thought this was a place to discuss the Beach Boys' music with other fans.

If you are of a mind to give this record 5 stars then that's a good sign that no amount of logic or facts could possibly sway you.

But if we like this record you won't discuss it with us because we supposedly can't comprehend any facts or logic you throw at us? In any regard, let me enlighten you with a few anecdotes from someone WHO ACTUALLY DOES KNOW about the makings of this album:

On 'I Guess You Had To Be There':

When I was out there, Brian had already written the lyrics to the chorus' and then he recorded the chorus vocals. His kids were very into Kacey's record , so he had been listening to it and liked her voice and her lyrics; he really liked the lyrics . The first time they met , she had flown out to LA just to sit and discuss the song with Brian , and what his vision of it was. They talked about how it was when their individual careers got rolling; Brian asked her to write the lyrics for the verses talking about that, which is what you are hearing in the verses. For example, the part " guess you miss some of the gold " ( relationships , friendships, happiness) "when youre too busy chasing the shine" (chasing money and fame).

On the '98 demo of 'Runaway Dancer':

I am listening to "Talk of the Town", which is the track that Brian submitted to Sebu to work on. The song itself is about a "lady of the evening" to put it politely.  I will try and point out the similarities and differences between the original "Talk of the Town" and the completed "Runaway Dancer".

The intro is the same, verses are the same, the sax is there  and most of the synths are there; in case you didn't know, Brian loves synths. If you listen to the chorus " hey its been the talk of the town" closely enough , you will realize it is Brian and Blondie singing it. There are two transitions to a part where Brian and Blondie sing " Ran away from home, had to get away , livin' on the street, goin' all the way", which have been replaced by Sebu's  " runnin , Runaway dancer , runnin" part. The intro is repeated as a a break before the last part of the song; it ends with the vocal as is on the finished tune. Sebu added the "Runaway Dancer" part and some synth stuff , but the original track is pretty close to what has been released .

When Brian drives with his kids, they pick the radio stations in the car, as there is just so much K-Earth 101 teenagers and younger can listen to. Daria Wilson loves Capital Cities so it's pretty easy to connect the dots.  

I can tell you that for the new record , Brian is working really hard; it's what I want to see and hear. He has been at Ocean Way at least 10 times this month on his own , no Joe ; just Brian working with musicians and cutting vocals on his own. He is putting a lot of craft into the making of this record, taking his time, working around the schedules of the young singers he has brought in.  I believe yesterday he was in the studio from 12 noon to 9 pm , working on drums and vocals. There are moments where he and Al are singing together, and when they are swapping leads , that I never thought I would hear again.

So essentially we have a 72 year old Brian Wilson who is not the 24 year old kid who cut Pet Sounds, Good Vibrations and SMiLE.  Who is still there , still working , still trying to be unpredictable after all these years .

Just a side note regarding your ridiculous idea that Brian hasn't done his own music these last few years (an anecdote regarding BWRG):

A good example of what you are asking about is The Gershwin album.  Was it Brian's idea ? I don't know ; however what I do know is that he had been talking a lot about cutting Rhapsody in Blue , and the next thing I knew I was sitting in the deli with him and he is telling me he was signed to do a Gershwin album so i can connect those dots. i was at the majority of those sessions ; Mark Linett said it was the hardest he had ever seen Brian work, and he absolutely worked his ass off. I talked earlier about how Brian listens to nobody ; a small anecdotal example.  He was cutting the vocal on "Love is Here to Stay" and it was a beautiful take.  I was kind of telling him "Brian you need to double that lead and it will be incredible". He was adamant that no , "it's just right".  And of course he was right , it was.  And I , thankfully , shut the hell up. Another example is "Nothing But Love".  It was initially cut as a ballad ; something about Paris , and it was not up to par.  The next morning , Brian was the first one in the studio, teaching the band essentially an entire rewrite of the song; different tempo , different key. He had consulted with Paul Von Mertens about writing the charts on the overnight for the song , I remember Paul saying to me something to the effect of " you know maybe we're too close, but you forget what a brilliant musician Brian is ". I could say lots more but it's getting late and I type slowly!

And another example from the TLOS sessions. Which is in this 10 year timeframe of Brian supposedly being disinterested in music:

In 2006/2007 , I spent a good portion of my time , and American Airlines points , commuting between JFK and LAX. Literally every morning, at 0800 EST, my phone would ring.  At the other end of the line, was Brian Wilson, already up , working on songs, asking for input ; what I thought.  The next question was invariably " when can you come out ? " It was the summer of the Scott Bennett sessions. I would fly out and immediately go to the house......every week. The ritual was simple: get to the house, Brian always waiting in the driveway, go up to the music room where he would play the new song on his synthesizer, never on the grand piano. Then , go to the deli and eat , then go to the park and walk.  Then drive to Scott's place early so we could listen to "Pet Sounds" ....then stop at the same 7-11 and get a 6 pack of Corona Light for the session. Brian would lay down several piano tracks , Scott would add bass, drums and guitar; Brian would then lay down the lead vocal. The songs were written , lyrics and music , by Brian. I have every generation of each one of these songs on CD here at home ; from Brian's piano demo's, to the Scott Bennett engineered sessions, to what came out. Any theory that Brian does not write his own stuff anymore is just pure unadulterated nonsense.

There are plenty more examples in Ray Lawlor's post history of Brian's prowess when it comes to making his solo records. I suggest next time you write an opinion piece, you make it an educated opinion by researching the things you want to talk about.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 27, 2015, 12:54:03 PM
I tried giving him the benefit of the doubt, but by continously grasping at straws in order to boost his already failing argument, he's coming across as more of a uninformed troll. Makes question some of his other reviews. .

I mean, the fact that Thomas was in a completely different state during the actual recording of the album should count for something since we had been talking about Thomas's involvement with the production , but I guess it's possible to produce by proxy.  Maybe him and Brian switched bodies.  Or maybe it was a Nicholas Cage &John Travolta Face/Off situation and Thomas with Brian's face was in LA. Or there was cloning involved. Or, it could've like Avatar, with Brian as a blue-cat person and Joe Thomas was playing the Sam Worthington role.

Oh...I got it...I know how Thomas produced NPP despite not being anywhere near California. ..

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/TARDIS1.jpg)

I've been holding out this whole time...NPP was actually produced by Dr Fucking Who.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: rab2591 on September 27, 2015, 01:04:16 PM
:lol :lol :lol


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: caseyhardmeyer on September 27, 2015, 04:13:01 PM
I tried giving him the benefit of the doubt, but by continously grasping at straws in order to boost his already failing argument, he's coming across as more of a uninformed troll. Makes question some of his other reviews. .

I mean, the fact that Thomas was in a completely different state during the actual recording of the album should count for something since we had been talking about Thomas's involvement with the production , but I guess it's possible to produce by proxy.  Maybe him and Brian switched bodies.  Or maybe it was a Nicholas Cage &John Travolta Face/Off situation and Thomas with Brian's face was in LA. Or there was cloning involved. Or, it could've like Avatar, with Brian as a blue-cat person and Joe Thomas was playing the Sam Worthington role.

Oh...I got it...I know how Thomas produced NPP despite not being anywhere near California. ..

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/TARDIS1.jpg)

I've been holding out this whole time...NPP was actually produced by Dr Fucking Who.

Okay, I'll take you at your word that Thomas was in fact not present at the sessions for this album. I have no reason not to trust you if Thomas is a friend of yours or of the board's. But as a reviewer, I have to go by the credits given on the record, and if they don't match up with reality that's a problem with the record company, not with my judgement. My copy says "Produced by Brian Wilson and Joe Thomas", and Thomas is also credited with a co-write on every song except "One Kind of Love", you can look those things up yourselves. So thats what I went on. But it doesn't change how I feel about the record, because if Brian was really behind all of that autotune, the beats on Runaway Dancer and all the collaborations, then I think it was a very, very poor decision on his part. I would score it the exact same way. But obviously, we will have to agree to disagree on the quality of the music, as you can with any review. I was just genuinely curious as to what people were attracted to about this album, that's the reason I commented on this thread.

This seems like it's kind of another example of how, since the '80s, nothing is how it seems with Brian. His camp is always playing the smoke & mirrors game with the fans, I'm so tired of it.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 27, 2015, 04:29:04 PM
Billy C.'s face/off comment wins the thread!! :lol :lol :lol


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 27, 2015, 04:56:52 PM
I tried giving him the benefit of the doubt, but by continously grasping at straws in order to boost his already failing argument, he's coming across as more of a uninformed troll. Makes question some of his other reviews. .

I mean, the fact that Thomas was in a completely different state during the actual recording of the album should count for something since we had been talking about Thomas's involvement with the production , but I guess it's possible to produce by proxy.  Maybe him and Brian switched bodies.  Or maybe it was a Nicholas Cage &John Travolta Face/Off situation and Thomas with Brian's face was in LA. Or there was cloning involved. Or, it could've like Avatar, with Brian as a blue-cat person and Joe Thomas was playing the Sam Worthington role.

Oh...I got it...I know how Thomas produced NPP despite not being anywhere near California. ..

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/TARDIS1.jpg)

I've been holding out this whole time...NPP was actually produced by Dr Fucking Who.

Okay, I'll take you at your word that Thomas was in fact not present at the sessions for this album. I have no reason not to trust you if Thomas is a friend of yours or of the board's. But as a reviewer, I have to go by the credits given on the record, and if they don't match up with reality that's a problem with the record company, not with my judgement. My copy says "Produced by Brian Wilson and Joe Thomas", and Thomas is also credited with a co-write on every song except "One Kind of Love", you can look those things up yourselves. So thats what I went on. But it doesn't change how I feel about the record, because if Brian was really behind all of that autotune, the beats on Runaway Dancer and all the collaborations, then I think it was a very, very poor decision on his part. I would score it the exact same way. But obviously, we will have to agree to disagree on the quality of the music, as you can with any review. I was just genuinely curious as to what people were attracted to about this album, that's the reason I commented on this thread.

This seems like it's kind of another example of how, since the '80s, nothing is how it seems with Brian. His camp is always playing the smoke & mirrors game with the fans, I'm so tired of it.


Honest question: How long have you been reviewing albums? I'm asking because you should know (and I mean, really) that 'spin' is standard practice when it comes to album publicity for anybody, not just Brian. That's part of the game. Likewise, you should well know that album credits are rarely if ever accurate for various reasons. Trust me, I'm NOT justifying that by any means  (hell, it drives me nuts...and Lord knows I've spent quite a bit of time here correcting a lot of incorrect info in liners), just stating it's extremely commonplace. Part of being a journalist is doing your research; not trying to beat a dead horse, but you do know that Brian *already* knew Zooey before NPP, right? I'd imagine you knew who her dad was, right, and the connection there?

As far as the fact that Brian was behind the artistic decisions concerning the album...well, for better or worse, it is indeed true. For the record, Autotune was NOT used on the record, although another form of pitch correction WAS used...(IIRC, it was melodyne, but I'll have to ask for clarification). That was Brian's decision (and for a good comparison between HIS use of pitch correction and Thomas auto-tuning things to infinity and beyond, listen to the hideous Beach Boys C50 'live' album); he has stated many times that he wishes he had such tools available to him in the 60s. He happens to prefer a softer sound these days. Many of us (myself included) would rather he did more experimental sounds, but at the end of the day, it's Brian's call (as it damn well should be).




Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: rab2591 on September 27, 2015, 05:03:11 PM
I was just genuinely curious as to what people were attracted to about this album, that's the reason I commented on this thread.

You were genuinely curious as to what people were attracted to about this album, which is why you posted here? Dude, you came here stating flat out:

I cannot believe NPP has this many fives. Percentage wise, this album has a higher favorability rating on this site than Surf's Up. I assume my review on PopMatters didn't go over too well...

And that's all you posted initially. Not once in your post did you express any curiosity - you just rudely stated that you can't believe this album has this many 5 star ratings. Then you berated me for liking this album. But given your posts above, I can understand that it would be confusing for you to comprehend why Brian Wilson fans on a Brian Wilson sub-forum would like a Brian Wilson album.

Quote
But as a reviewer, I have to go by the credits given on the record

Apparently only when it conveniences your completely flawed perception of reality. Brian Wilson is listed as being a co-writer of these songs yet according to you:

Quote
This is where discussing the album’s tracks as if they were actually Wilson’s becomes completely pointless. This may have his elderly vocals on it, but this is his album in name only.

So when can we go by the credits in the liner notes? Jeesh, maybe you should preface your reviews with guidelines for readers so they don't get confused as f*** trying to comprehend your incredibly flawed logic.

Quote
But it doesn't change how I feel about the record, because if Brian was really behind all of that autotune, the beats on Runaway Dancer and all the collaborations, then I think it was a very, very poor decision on his part. I would score it the exact same way. But obviously, we will have to agree to disagree on the quality of the music, as you can with any review.

THAT is a good review. It's isn't full of conjecture from your mystical alternate reality where Zooey Deschanel never met Brian Wilson prior to NPP (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJkBdEIFur8) and where Joe Thomas has writing credits on all the NPP songs.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: caseyhardmeyer on September 27, 2015, 05:16:26 PM

...you should well know that album credits are rarely if ever accurate for various reasons.


Absolutely, categorically, 100 percent false.  You are living in the '60s man, people don't cut deals like that anymore (except Brian Wilson, I guess). In 2015 (the year of our lord) most album credits are 99.99 percent accurate. After decades of turmoil in the music industry it has become of the utmost legal importance that each musician and participant is credited correctly. Do you think Beyonce likes having to list all 15 producers, and 60 plus writers on her albums? Of course not, it makes her look silly, but you can't get away with not doing that in this day and age. Been that way for years. Sounds like you're working with really dishonest people.

What an absurd thing to say.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: caseyhardmeyer on September 27, 2015, 05:38:21 PM
THAT is a good review. It's isn't full of conjecture from your mystical alternate reality where Zooey Deschanel never met Brian Wilson prior to NPP (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJkBdEIFur8) and where Joe Thomas has writing credits on all the NPP songs.

Oh my god you have posted the Zooey Deschanel thing like 8 times now. Jesus christ, enough! The album is a 10/10 and I'm gonna go buy the She & Him discography now, off to the record store! You win!


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 27, 2015, 05:48:48 PM
Are you related to Mike Love by any chance, your talking points sound like stuff he says about BW.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: rab2591 on September 27, 2015, 05:53:38 PM
THAT is a good review. It's isn't full of conjecture from your mystical alternate reality where Zooey Deschanel never met Brian Wilson prior to NPP (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJkBdEIFur8) and where Joe Thomas has writing credits on all the NPP songs.

Oh my god you have posted the Zooey Deschanel thing like 8 times now. Jesus christ, enough! The album is a 10/10 and I'm gonna go buy the She & Him discography now, off to the record store! You win!

I couldn't care less if you like the album. Plenty of posters here disliked the album, difference between you and them is that their reviews weren't full of false information. Enjoy the She and Him albums, tell me how they are. On second thought, I'll read the album reviews from people who can professionally write them.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 27, 2015, 06:03:18 PM

...you should well know that album credits are rarely if ever accurate for various reasons.


Absolutely, categorically, 100 percent false.  You are living in the '60s man, people don't cut deals like that anymore (except Brian Wilson, I guess). In 2015 (the year of our lord) most album credits are 99.99 percent accurate. After decades of turmoil in the music industry it has become of the utmost legal importance that each musician and participant is credited correctly. Do you think Beyonce likes having to list all 15 producers, and 60 plus writers on her albums? Of course not, it makes her look silly, but you can't get away with not doing that in this day and age. Been that way for years. Sounds like you're working with really dishonest people.

What an absurd thing to say.


Living in the 60s? :lol I was born in 1978, pal. And for a supposed writer, you are seriously stretching what is left of your credibility.  By trying to prove me wrong, you're actually proving me right! These days, a guy can fart in the general direction of the studio and be given credit. And sh*t, you named Beyonce, who has been accused of using a ghost-writer for her songs, at the very least. One good example was with the song 'If I was a boy' and the controversy when it came out that BC Jean actually wrote the song.

Research is vital.



Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: caseyhardmeyer on September 27, 2015, 06:05:01 PM

...you should well know that album credits are rarely if ever accurate for various reasons.


Absolutely, categorically, 100 percent false.  You are living in the '60s man, people don't cut deals like that anymore (except Brian Wilson, I guess). In 2015 (the year of our lord) most album credits are 99.99 percent accurate. After decades of turmoil in the music industry it has become of the utmost legal importance that each musician and participant is credited correctly. Do you think Beyonce likes having to list all 15 producers, and 60 plus writers on her albums? Of course not, it makes her look silly, but you can't get away with not doing that in this day and age. Been that way for years. Sounds like you're working with really dishonest people.

What an absurd thing to say.


Living in the 60s? :lol I was born in 1978, pal. And for a supposed writer, you are seriously stretching what is left of your credibility.  By trying to prove me wrong, you're actually proving me right! These days, a guy can fart in the general direction of the studio and be given credit. And sh*t, you named Beyonce, who has been accused of using a ghost-writer for her songs, at the very least. One good example was with the song 'If I was a boy' and the controversy when it came out that BC Jean actually wrote the song.

Research is vital.



This is why you write in forums, and I write in newspapers and magazines. Good luck to ya.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 27, 2015, 06:19:44 PM

...you should well know that album credits are rarely if ever accurate for various reasons.


Absolutely, categorically, 100 percent false.  You are living in the '60s man, people don't cut deals like that anymore (except Brian Wilson, I guess). In 2015 (the year of our lord) most album credits are 99.99 percent accurate. After decades of turmoil in the music industry it has become of the utmost legal importance that each musician and participant is credited correctly. Do you think Beyonce likes having to list all 15 producers, and 60 plus writers on her albums? Of course not, it makes her look silly, but you can't get away with not doing that in this day and age. Been that way for years. Sounds like you're working with really dishonest people.

What an absurd thing to say.


Living in the 60s? :lol I was born in 1978, pal. And for a supposed writer, you are seriously stretching what is left of your credibility.  By trying to prove me wrong, you're actually proving me right! These days, a guy can fart in the general direction of the studio and be given credit. And sh*t, you named Beyonce, who has been accused of using a ghost-writer for her songs, at the very least. One good example was with the song 'If I was a boy' and the controversy when it came out that BC Jean actually wrote the song.

Research is vital.



This is why you write in forums, and I write in newspapers and magazines. Good luck to ya.

No, I moderate on this forum in my spare time (between my real job and my own music career) because I have been a fan of Brian and the rest of the Beach Boys for the past 20 years. Hope you enjoyed that post, as it is your last here. Go back to living in your parents' basement and writing throwaway reviews that nobody takes seriously without doing research because it requires too much work.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 27, 2015, 06:52:37 PM
It's Go Time.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 27, 2015, 06:56:50 PM
In this photo, you'll notice that is actually Joe Thomas wearing an M. Ward mask.

(http://cdn2.hellogiggles.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/29/SheHim_Brian_Approved-700x525c.jpg?123)


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 27, 2015, 07:07:47 PM
Actually it's Brian in the middle, joe Thomas on the right, and Rod Stewart as M. Ward.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: guitarfool2002 on September 27, 2015, 07:08:38 PM
And Dr. Who is taking the photo.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 27, 2015, 07:17:14 PM
I'm the recording console.  Helps to be made of liquid metal like a T-1000.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: SMiLE Brian on September 28, 2015, 03:51:58 AM
Billy is the Terminator! 8)


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: KDS on September 28, 2015, 10:57:08 AM
That was an interesting exchange of ideas. 

Any way, I know the Grammys are a joke, but I wonder if anything from NPP will get nominated. 

Usually, the Grammys will give a mod to a legacy artist who puts out something (sometimes they can even get nominated for new live versions of 40 year old songs). 

That being said, I think it would be nice for Brian to pick up a Grammy for something from his solo career where he actually sings lead. 



Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: Douchepool on September 28, 2015, 01:56:16 PM
It would be nice but to give it to NPP would just be an insult. Besides, I don't know why people even bother with what I call "pity Grammys" anymore. "Well, Steely Dan got one," they say. Yeah, for their WORST album. Not a bad album mind you, but compared to what came before it's clearly inferior.

Of course, I hold the Grammys in the same regard as the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame - burn them to the ground. Farcical beyond words.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: KDS on September 29, 2015, 05:30:27 AM
It would be nice but to give it to NPP would just be an insult. Besides, I don't know why people even bother with what I call "pity Grammys" anymore. "Well, Steely Dan got one," they say. Yeah, for their WORST album. Not a bad album mind you, but compared to what came before it's clearly inferior.

Of course, I hold the Grammys in the same regard as the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame - burn them to the ground. Farcical beyond words.

Are you saying that Judas Priest didn't deserve their 2010 Grammy for a live version of an album track from 1977?  :)

I'm with you on the Grammys and RNRHOF. 


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: JK on December 06, 2015, 02:13:50 PM
I've discovered what my problem was with the Deluxe NPP----"The Last Song" (all those lalala's) and the two bonus tracks. One listen to Brian's "ITBOMM" is quite enough and the definitive "Love And Mercy" is on Brian Wilson. So I call it a day after "Saturday Night" and it's a great listen all the way.  4/5


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: KDS on December 07, 2015, 06:09:44 AM
I've discovered what my problem was with the Deluxe NPP----"The Last Song" (all those lalala's) and the two bonus tracks. One listen to Brian's "ITBOMM" is quite enough and the definitive "Love And Mercy" is on Brian Wilson. So I call it a day after "Saturday Night" and it's a great listen all the way.  4/5

I have the super deluxe US Target Inc version of NPP also.

I really don't consider ITBOMM or L&M a part of the album.  I'm kinda hot and cold on The Last Song.  The first couple times I heard it, I really liked it. 


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: KDS on December 07, 2015, 06:21:19 AM
Somewhat predictably, there were no Grammy nominations for No Pier Pressure.  I thought it might get at least one nomination, but the Grammy voters are even more clueless then the RNRHOF. 


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: JK on December 10, 2015, 01:49:09 AM
Somewhat predictably, there were no Grammy nominations for No Pier Pressure.  I thought it might get at least one nomination, but the Grammy voters are even more clueless then the RNRHOF. 

The words "circus", "big" and "one" come to mind, not necessarily in that order. ;D


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: You Kane, You Commanded, You Conquered on April 07, 2016, 09:01:19 PM
An album full of songs that don't really go anywhere. His worst solo album in my opinion.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: JK on September 02, 2016, 03:08:10 AM
I listen to No Pier Pressure, the deluxe version, on a regular basis. It's a great summer album and, like TWGMTR, one I feel I can play in any company.

With one proviso----I make "Saturday Night" the final track. No "The Last Song" (all that la-la-la'ing), no solo "ITBOMM" and no alternative "Love And Mercy".

I often have it playing while organizing the evening meal...           


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: Lowbacca on March 15, 2017, 11:46:13 AM
These being the last days before the beginning of spring, I've dedusted NPP and actually rediscovered this album.

Such a breath of fresh air.

I guess late/mid-March is "The Right Time" to have do this. 8) Who's with me?


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: KDS on March 15, 2017, 12:07:33 PM
These being the last days before the beginning of spring, I've dedusted NPP and actually rediscovered this album.

Such a breath of fresh air.

I guess late/mid-March is "The Right Time" to have do this. 8) Who's with me?

I recently rewatched the BW & Friends DVD (I got the CD/DVD combo for Christmas), and I'd almost forgotten how much I like Half Moon Bay and Saturday Night.  I wound up listening to the album soon after. 


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: KDS on March 15, 2017, 12:16:33 PM
This is good album but "In the Back of My Mind" 1975 is nadir of the bonus tracks. What're they thinking including it? I'd rather listen to 1965 version.

I'll agree in that I don't care for this version at all.  But, I'm OK with it's inclusion as a bonus track, since it's not technically part of the album proper. 


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on March 15, 2017, 01:08:30 PM
This is good album but "In the Back of My Mind" 1975 is nadir of the bonus tracks. What're they thinking including it? I'd rather listen to 1965 version.

I'm backwards...I like this version a whole lot, but never have cared for the original as Dennis's vocals don't fit the song or the production IMHO.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 15, 2017, 01:46:03 PM
I'm more backwards: I don't like either version!


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on March 15, 2017, 01:51:23 PM
:lol


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: rab2591 on March 15, 2017, 01:52:02 PM
I'm more backwards: I don't like either version!

Do you like the backing track for this song? I really think it's one of Brian's greatest moments. Though I don't mind Dennis' voice I wouldn't have complained had they left it an instrumental!


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 15, 2017, 04:50:45 PM
I do think it's a well done track. But I'm not a huge fan of the melody itself, and far less so of the vocal. Don't get me wrong, I'm not shitting on it. Just never liked it, myself. And then the demo!...and I like it even less. Hmpf. Woe is me.  ;D


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: rab2591 on March 15, 2017, 07:00:23 PM
I do think it's a well done track. But I'm not a huge fan of the melody itself, and far less so of the vocal. Don't get me wrong, I'm not shitting on it. Just never liked it, myself. And then the demo!...and I like it even less. Hmpf. Woe is me.  ;D

No I totally understand, the track has certainly grown on me since I first heard it...there was a time when I was in disbelief that Brian used Dennis to sing it...what I would give to hear a version with '65 Brian singing on it!


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: JK on March 16, 2017, 06:02:25 AM
I do think it's a well done track. But I'm not a huge fan of the melody itself, and far less so of the vocal. Don't get me wrong, I'm not shitting on it. Just never liked it, myself. And then the demo!...and I like it even less. Hmpf. Woe is me.  ;D

No I totally understand, the track has certainly grown on me since I first heard it...there was a time when I was in disbelief that Brian used Dennis to sing it...what I would give to hear a version with '65 Brian singing on it!

I'd say Dennis's interpretation is a much better step to "Bull Session" than Brian's would have been.

Brian's heart-breaking vocals on "She Knows Me Too Well" would have been hard for him to follow anyway.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on March 16, 2017, 12:32:05 PM
For me, Brian's 1975 voice fits the song much much better than Dennis's voice or 1965 Brian. Plus I've always been a sucker for transitional-voice Brian.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 16, 2017, 12:50:24 PM
I don't mind '75 Brian's voice at all. It's just the song itself (and the performance, to some extent). I get why people who like the tune would enjoy it, and obviously as a rarity/curiosity it's fun to hear. But just not for me.

On the main topic, though: I still like NPP more than a lot of people seem to (including several of the special-guest tracks). Good, but not great, record. Best of all: no theme. (OK, that's not what's best, but for me it was a welcome relief to have "just" an album of songs. That is what Brian has been best at his whole life: writing pop songs.)


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: KDS on March 16, 2017, 01:21:48 PM
For me, Brian's 1975 voice fits the song much much better than Dennis's voice or 1965 Brian. Plus I've always been a sucker for transitional-voice Brian.

I don't even think that's one of the better examples of transitional Brian. 

For example, I think he sounds worlds better on Winter Symphony.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: KDS on March 16, 2017, 01:25:15 PM
I don't mind '75 Brian's voice at all. It's just the song itself (and the performance, to some extent). I get why people who like the tune would enjoy it, and obviously as a rarity/curiosity it's fun to hear. But just not for me.

On the main topic, though: I still like NPP more than a lot of people seem to (including several of the special-guest tracks). Good, but not great, record. Best of all: no theme. (OK, that's not what's best, but for me it was a welcome relief to have "just" an album of songs. That is what Brian has been best at his whole life: writing pop songs.)

I'm all for an album that's just a collection of songs.  But I think a couple of the guest star songs sort of break up the flow of the album, most notably Runaway Dancer and Guess You Had to Be There.

But, I do really like On the Island, Half Moon Bay, and Saturday Night.  And I think I'm one of the few fans of Our Special Love.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on March 16, 2017, 02:01:21 PM
For me, Brian's 1975 voice fits the song much much better than Dennis's voice or 1965 Brian. Plus I've always been a sucker for transitional-voice Brian.

I don't even think that's one of the better examples of transitional Brian. 

For example, I think he sounds worlds better on Winter Symphony.
When I say "transitional period" I'm referring to the 1974-1975 period (although he sounded like his 1976 self on So Tough, it appears that was intentional). 1975 ITBOMM was basically the last of "old" Brian.


And yeah, Winter Symphony was indeed better, and along with his vocals on MIU (except the opener *shudder*) were the first "real" vocals we'd heard from him in some years.  15 Big Ones and Love You were....different. According to his book Brian had laryngitis during the 15 BO sessions. Chainsmoking like he did certainly didn't make that heal better, and going from not singing much at all to touring for the first time in forever didn't give him much time to rest. Didn't help that he was by his own admission intentionally trying to sound different. In 1977, though, he was singing normally, and his voice sounds much more natural. Of course, his voice had changed...combination of lifestyle, aging, and muscle memory would do that to you.



Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on March 16, 2017, 02:02:50 PM
I don't mind '75 Brian's voice at all. It's just the song itself (and the performance, to some extent). I get why people who like the tune would enjoy it, and obviously as a rarity/curiosity it's fun to hear. But just not for me.

On the main topic, though: I still like NPP more than a lot of people seem to (including several of the special-guest tracks). Good, but not great, record. Best of all: no theme. (OK, that's not what's best, but for me it was a welcome relief to have "just" an album of songs. That is what Brian has been best at his whole life: writing pop songs.)

I'm all for an album that's just a collection of songs.  But I think a couple of the guest star songs sort of break up the flow of the album, most notably Runaway Dancer and Guess You Had to Be There.

But, I do really like On the Island, Half Moon Bay, and Saturday Night.  And I think I'm one of the few fans of Our Special Love.

I love Our Special Love. Brian *nailed* that one when I saw him in June 2015.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 16, 2017, 02:10:41 PM
I love Our Special Love. Brian *nailed* that one when I saw him in June 2015.

Wait, what? He did OSL live? Or am I misunderstanding? I must be misunderstanding.

I still think it's really, really cheesy. It's not terrible, but I really hated the Peter Hollens lead bits. I'd have rather heard the original version that Thomas discussed in some interview or other. And I just can't get over that part that is identical to the "Spring Vacation" part. Maybe because I don't like that song, either.



Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: SMiLE Brian on March 16, 2017, 02:15:43 PM
Cap, you still jamming to "guess you had to be there"? :afro.   Kacey is the savior against bro-county!


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 16, 2017, 02:19:34 PM
I don't love the song, but I think it's good. Fun. Kinda dumb. Pretty bad lyrics--I HATE the forced nostalgia sh*t, whether written by Brian himself, or more often seemingly by Bennett, Thomas, or Musgraves.--especially for such a great lyricist as Musgraves is. But yeah, it's fine with me. And I do like the way that they they managed to do something so interesting with only four chords repeating the whole damn time. I end up singing the backgrounds every goshdarn time.

It's Saturday Night that really gets me. That should have been an uber-hit (in like 1983). That's pure pop glory. The number of times I've heard the guys' voices on that one... Al on the verses, Carl on the chorus, Dennis on Brian's bridge part...


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: SMiLE Brian on March 16, 2017, 02:22:35 PM
It sure beats that upcoming Florida Georgia Line with the Backstreet Boys tour.... ;)


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on March 16, 2017, 02:23:49 PM
I love Our Special Love. Brian *nailed* that one when I saw him in June 2015.

Wait, what? He did OSL live? Or am I misunderstanding? I must be misunderstanding.

I still think it's really, really cheesy. It's not terrible, but I really hated the Peter Hollens lead bits. I'd have rather heard the original version that Thomas discussed in some interview or other. And I just can't get over that part that is identical to the "Spring Vacation" part. Maybe because I don't like that song, either.



Oh sh*t...I was thinking One Kind of Love. I'll go curl up in a ball for a few hours now lol.

Seriously though, Our Special Love is in my top 5 on the album, and my daughter's favorite



Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 16, 2017, 02:27:57 PM
SB - lol, and yes. (Though Musgraves toured with K Perry a few years ago. That said, shitty pop beats bro country and boy bands in my book.)

Billy - I figured there was some confusion there. Then again, I'm the guy who once either here or at Record Room went on for about half a dozen posts FURIOUSLY insisting that Zeppelin was the best American rock band ever... until realizing what a full-on, suddenly brainless idiot I was! I would have loved to hear One Kind of Love live. All I ever got was Sail Away, in the PS tour last October. Which was great, mind you, but not the same. (For that matter, I only ever heard Summer's Gone from TLOS, on the BW-Jardine-Marks tour. So for new material from the past half-decade, I've had a rough go of it. And Summer's Gone isn't even in my top few songs from those years!)


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: SMiLE Brian on March 16, 2017, 02:36:40 PM
Maybe M&B could tour with FGL next to get a good Filleplage rant out of the thing. On topic, I was lucky to see BW do surf's up in 2015!!!!


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on March 16, 2017, 03:27:44 PM
SB - lol, and yes. (Though Musgraves toured with K Perry a few years ago. That said, shitty pop beats bro country and boy bands in my book.)

Billy - I figured there was some confusion there. Then again, I'm the guy who once either here or at Record Room went on for about half a dozen posts FURIOUSLY insisting that Zeppelin was the best American rock band ever... until realizing what a full-on, suddenly brainless idiot I was! I would have loved to hear One Kind of Love live. All I ever got was Sail Away, in the PS tour last October. Which was great, mind you, but not the same. (For that matter, I only ever heard Summer's Gone from TLOS, on the BW-Jardine-Marks tour. So for new material from the past half-decade, I've had a rough go of it. And Summer's Gone isn't even in my top few songs from those years!)

You just had one of my moments... Summer's Gone wasn't on TLOS, it was on the reunion album! :D


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 16, 2017, 03:43:56 PM
No, I did know that! I just mentioned it to say that it was a modern track from an album I wanted to hear more from, but never did. The C50 tour did a few others but nothing but Summer's Gone, which I don't really like.

But THAT was one of your moments: because on further reflection, they did TLOS at that same show! (Also, it sounded like sh*t.) I would have loved to hear Isn't It Time (which I think is a fucking GREAT song) or either of the other two trilogy songs at the end. Alas.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: SMiLE Brian on March 16, 2017, 04:27:30 PM
The full life-suite needs to be released, quite the teaser with those songs already released.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 16, 2017, 04:30:29 PM
Don't fall into the Cult of the Unreleased, now...


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: SMiLE Brian on March 16, 2017, 04:31:18 PM
Country love excluded. ;)


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 16, 2017, 04:37:42 PM
Some legends are warranted.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: SMiLE Brian on March 16, 2017, 04:39:24 PM
What is the most famous unreleased album now?


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: Scaroline No on March 16, 2017, 04:41:58 PM
Don't fall into the Cult of the Unreleased, now...

I'm going to name my Unreleased BB/BW playlist The Cult of Unreleased now, thanks  :hat

As for NPP, I'm still digesting it. I was finding it hard in it's pure format so I've separated the album into two parts... the newbs and the un-newbs. Once I've come to accept both equally I will put them both back together and hopefully appreciate it all the way it was meant to be enjoyed.

Incidentally, the un-newbs are getting more listens, though I do enjoy Nate Ruess' and She and Him's contributions on the newbs mix.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 16, 2017, 04:55:56 PM
What is the most famous unreleased album now?

Good question. I remember when there was a Hendrix album, the '69 VU album, Smile, Prince's Black Album, etc. But most of such things have been released as demand for rarities went nuts in these past few decades. Of things that actually exist, I don't know what's left.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: KDS on March 17, 2017, 05:13:05 AM
SB - lol, and yes. (Though Musgraves toured with K Perry a few years ago. That said, shitty pop beats bro country and boy bands in my book.)



That's like asking if you want to be shot, stabbed, or eaten by a shark. 


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: JK on March 17, 2017, 05:27:50 AM
What is the most famous unreleased album now?

Good question. I remember when there was a Hendrix album, the '69 VU album, Smile, Prince's Black Album, etc. But most of such things have been released as demand for rarities went nuts in these past few decades. Of things that actually exist, I don't know what's left.

One's tempted to say Adult/Child...


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 17, 2017, 05:43:24 AM
SB - lol, and yes. (Though Musgraves toured with K Perry a few years ago. That said, shitty pop beats bro country and boy bands in my book.)



That's like asking if you want to be shot, stabbed, or eaten by a shark. 

That sounds like something I might actually end up discussing with my idiot friends [he says lovingly] over too many beers.  ;D


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: KDS on March 17, 2017, 07:43:09 AM
SB - lol, and yes. (Though Musgraves toured with K Perry a few years ago. That said, shitty pop beats bro country and boy bands in my book.)



That's like asking if you want to be shot, stabbed, or eaten by a shark.  

That sounds like something I might actually end up discussing with my idiot friends [he says lovingly] over too many beers.  ;D

After a few beers, it might be easier for me to chose getting shot, stabbed, or eaten by a shark than choosing between bro country, disposable pop, or boy bands.  

 :beer

Getting back on track, Kasey Musgraves, to me, if kind of the female equivalent of bro country (ho country????  no, that's mean), so that's why I don't care for Guess You Had to Be There. 

Oddly enough, other than the dance beat, I kinda liked that Safe and Sound sound by Sebu from 2013.  Without the dance beat, I'd probably like Runaway Dancer better. 


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 17, 2017, 07:43:59 AM
Lol


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: KDS on March 17, 2017, 08:04:36 AM
To posts below - pass boring beer talk to Sandbox. We discuss music here.

KDS, what's your favorite bonus track? To me, "Don't Worry".

It's not really beer talk, just a minor aside. 

My favorite bonus track is probably I'm Feeling Sad, but I really like Don't Worry, as it reminds me of mid 80s Phil Collins.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 17, 2017, 09:21:05 AM
To posts below - pass boring beer talk to Sandbox. We discuss music here.


What's the magic word?


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: SMiLE Brian on March 17, 2017, 09:21:53 AM
No Cap Pressure.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: KDS on March 17, 2017, 10:21:11 AM
No Cap Pressure.

No Beer Pressue


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 17, 2017, 10:24:37 AM
Yo past two posts, take your boring jokes to Sandbox. We discuss music here.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: wilsonart1 on March 17, 2017, 12:43:01 PM
cap. you can't 'let little items bother you. Have a nice Irish Day! Stay thirsty my friend!


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 17, 2017, 12:47:08 PM
Let me assure you nothing on a message board will ever bother me.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: SMiLE Brian on March 17, 2017, 12:51:34 PM
"Right" on Cap! ;)


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on March 17, 2017, 02:04:38 PM
What is the most famous unreleased album now?

Good question. I remember when there was a Hendrix album, the '69 VU album, Smile, Prince's Black Album, etc. But most of such things have been released as demand for rarities went nuts in these past few decades. Of things that actually exist, I don't know what's left.

One's tempted to say Adult/Child...

:D


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 17, 2017, 04:22:57 PM
The only thing is, most (all?) of its contents are out there. Is there such a thing as a mysterious unreleased album anymore?


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on March 17, 2017, 04:48:06 PM
I don't think so.

I also think such a phenomenon is a relic from a now-over era, and that just depressed the living sh*t out of me.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 17, 2017, 05:17:17 PM
Welcome to middle age. We're only the x-thousandth batch of guys to be hit by passing time.  :-\


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on March 18, 2017, 10:42:57 AM
Time flies like the wind, fruit flies like bananas


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 18, 2017, 02:02:16 PM

Getting back on track, Kasey Musgraves, to me, if kind of the female equivalent of bro country (ho country????  no, that's mean), so that's why I don't care for Guess You Had to Be There. 


I missed this earlier. I disagree completely. I think she's probably one of the best 3-5 artists in pop (broad sense, so rock, country, pop, hip hop, etc.) music right now. There is a kind of classic country to her, especially of the slick countrypolitan vibe, with some really clever lyric writing and pop sensibilities. To me, "bro country" is a combination of hair metal and country. It's all slickly produced, heavy kick drum, distorted guitars, big shoutalong choruses, but all dolled up in cowboy hats and jeans as they sing about painfully stereotypical "country: topics: trucks, hometowns, beer, good ol' buddies. Musgraves sings about those things in the same way Sherwood Anderson, Willa Cather, or Sinclair Lewis wrote about them, which is to say with clever satire. And yeah, I guess I said clever a couple of times. That's the word I return to with her.

As for "ho," I dunno ... I say this with no disrespect whatsoever, but it seems to me you're pretty quick to dismiss female musicians for being slutty even while championing male rock/metal that is pretty painfully sexist. I've noticed it as a recurring point among your criticism of modern pop. I wouldn't say Musgraves is especially lascivious. Tediously heavy on the weed references but nothing out of the ordinary in terms of sex.


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: KDS on March 18, 2017, 03:03:58 PM

Getting back on track, Kasey Musgraves, to me, if kind of the female equivalent of bro country (ho country????  no, that's mean), so that's why I don't care for Guess You Had to Be There. 


I missed this earlier. I disagree completely. I think she's probably one of the best 3-5 artists in pop (broad sense, so rock, country, pop, hip hop, etc.) music right now. There is a kind of classic country to her, especially of the slick countrypolitan vibe, with some really clever lyric writing and pop sensibilities. To me, "bro country" is a combination of hair metal and country. It's all slickly produced, heavy kick drum, distorted guitars, big shoutalong choruses, but all dolled up in cowboy hats and jeans as they sing about painfully stereotypical "country: topics: trucks, hometowns, beer, good ol' buddies. Musgraves sings about those things in the same way Sherwood Anderson, Willa Cather, or Sinclair Lewis wrote about them, which is to say with clever satire. And yeah, I guess I said clever a couple of times. That's the word I return to with her.

As for "ho," I dunno ... I say this with no disrespect whatsoever, but it seems to me you're pretty quick to dismiss female musicians for being slutty even while championing male rock/metal that is pretty painfully sexist. I've noticed it as a recurring point among your criticism of modern pop. I wouldn't say Musgraves is especially lascivious. Tediously heavy on the weed references but nothing out of the ordinary in terms of sex.

I think you're reading a little too much in my rhyming bro and ho.  I dont think Musgraves flaunts her sexuality. 


Title: Re: No Pier Pressure
Post by: the captain on March 18, 2017, 03:04:52 PM
OK fair enough.