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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: guitarfool2002 on May 18, 2012, 09:35:48 PM



Title: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 18, 2012, 09:35:48 PM
If there is another thread for this or if it has been discussed elsewhere, please disregard - I just wanted to comment on how great it was to see all the guys together talking at the round table. That in itself was terrific, and made me very happy, not to mention the interview itself and more of the GV studio film from '66, Western and Columbia...

God Bless the Beach Boys and what they're doing, it just keeps rolling along and making people happy.

Charlie Rose Show on PBS, check it out unless this is old news by now... ;D


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Runaways on May 18, 2012, 09:38:02 PM
i didn't even know they were gonna be on.  well, it should be up on his site in the next couple days.

how was the interview?


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Jay on May 18, 2012, 09:39:00 PM
I guess I missed it. Is it being repeated at all? When you said more of the GV studio film, you mean more footage that we haven't already seen?


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 18, 2012, 09:39:12 PM
I did not either - it was pure luck that my insomnia had me channel surfing and there they were.

*HIGHLY* recommended anyone on the West Coast look for this one on their local PBS schedule...


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Runaways on May 18, 2012, 09:39:49 PM
his website has his whole 5/17 show online, i assume the same will be give to the beach boys show.

they're also all on hulu for free


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 18, 2012, 09:43:05 PM
Exactly, I'd check back on the show's website and he also has a YouTube channel here: http://www.youtube.com/user/CharlieRose/videos (http://www.youtube.com/user/CharlieRose/videos)  If the BB's appearance doesn't show up soon we can shower his website with email requests until they do... :)

It will be on PBS later tonight in other areas, I'm on the East Coast and it was on around 11:30pm EST. Check your local PBS.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 18, 2012, 09:46:10 PM
http://www.charlierose.com/ (http://www.charlierose.com/)


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: stack-o-tracks on May 18, 2012, 09:48:01 PM
The show is on at midnight here, but says no information so am not sure if this will be featuring the Boys or not.

Johnny Carson documentary on right now.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 18, 2012, 09:50:11 PM
The show is on at midnight here, but says no information so am not sure if this will be featuring the Boys or not.

Johnny Carson documentary on right now.

The Beach Boys *and* Carson on PBS the same night...where is my credit card and phone, I'm making a pledge!  :)

Watch it, the Boys should be on.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 18, 2012, 09:56:52 PM
I guess I missed it. Is it being repeated at all? When you said more of the GV studio film, you mean more footage that we haven't already seen?

If I said there were a few seconds more, I may be pushing it - just some shots of Brian and the Columbia engineer doing what looked to be a fade-out at the board, on those old-school rotary faders and I noticed the engineer was holding a stopwatch to time the fade or the track itself. I never noticed that - same with a bot more interaction between Hal and Brian at Western and a very tight closeup of Steve Douglas and his horn that I don't recall from the other clips. They did leave out a lot of Carl and the upright bassist, so we still don't have the full piece of film for some reason, just pieces.

 


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Landlocked on May 18, 2012, 10:02:10 PM
Holy crap it's on right now for me! I missed a half hour. So far, Brian seems talkative. Right now he's talking about Rubber Soul, what else is new...lol.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Bubba Ho-Tep on May 18, 2012, 10:05:02 PM
Missed it. Why didn't I know about this?


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 18, 2012, 10:08:03 PM
how was the interview?

Very warm, very open - Brian seemed to disagree with Al when Al compared the new songs to Pet Sounds, Al told the story of auditioning "Their Hearts Were Full Of Spring" and "Surfin'" for his mother in order to get the 300 dollars to rent the instruments, Mike said he remembered Brian singing Danny Boy when he was 6 or so and Mike was on "Grandma Wilson's" lap, Charlie Rose had a goofy error when he asked Mike how did he and Brian meet... :) Charlie also didn't seem to know about Brian's Gershwin album, he had to ask about it. :-D Brian mentioned Gershwin as his hero or idol, I can't recall, and Bruce told of going to see Gershwin's apartment with Brian on a more recent trip (never heard of that one...)

Bruce told of hearing "Surfin" on the radio after he had been surfing and was excited to hear that his sport had a voice (meaning lyrics and not just the popular instrumentals like Walk Don't Run), Bruce also compared Brian's work on Pet Sound (if I recall) to Sinatra and Riddle on albums like "...Only The Lonely" and marveled several times how much music Brian was making in 1965-66. Dennis' Smile quote was discussed. David was awesome, as he has been on stage, it was just a great interview overall. Mike was great, as he has been. He told of naming Pet Sounds outside Western Studio 3 as the sound of the dogs barking had just been played, and had some really insightful things to say about Brian's music, mentioning Warmth Of The Sun specifically. Charlie mentioned and asked Brian about LSD.

Hopefully everyone will get to see it posted online, I'm just answering a few questions until then. Above all, having them all together and seeming to be not only relaxed and candid but also having fun was terrific. Great television, even though Charlie missed a few obvious ones...

Charlie did say he gets many comments about an earlier interview he did with Brian.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Landlocked on May 18, 2012, 10:12:38 PM
how was the interview?

Very warm, very open - Brian seemed to disagree with Al when Al compared the new songs to Pet Sounds,

Lmao, that part cracked me up. Brian totally changed the subject when confronted by Charlie Rose to comment on Al's opinion. He said something evasive like, "Al's a great singer, I love writing for him."

A great Brianism is born.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Amy B. on May 18, 2012, 10:18:19 PM
Links to interviews Brian did with Charlie Rose in the past:
http://www.charlierose.com/guest/view/775


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Runaways on May 18, 2012, 10:24:17 PM
Brian looked really good in that november 2005 interview.  sounded great too


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Les P on May 18, 2012, 10:36:20 PM
Guitarfool, thanks for posting, I caught it just in time.

Charlie Rose:  "Is this a happy time for everybody..."
Brian (enthusiastically interrupting) "YES!"

I was happy to hear this.  As others have commented, we can't always tell what's going on with Brian by his outward expression and behavior.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: stack-o-tracks on May 18, 2012, 10:40:07 PM
Links to interviews Brian did with Charlie Rose in the past:
http://www.charlierose.com/guest/view/775

That's great. I love his Johnny Cash impression.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Les P on May 18, 2012, 10:41:52 PM
There were also several concert clips from "Front Row Center," presumably the show that will be on PBS in June.  Let the autotune debate begin...


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Shady on May 18, 2012, 11:06:01 PM
Nice job BeachBoys.com for the heads up   ::)


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: stack-o-tracks on May 18, 2012, 11:11:48 PM
Jesus, I hope this interview with that Facebook dweeb is over very quickly. His voice is grating and he has more money than I do.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Beach Head on May 18, 2012, 11:12:21 PM
Damn! Just learned about this, too late to catch it.

But ...

My local PBS station re-runs "Charlie Rose" the next weekday at 4 in the afternoon! So, on Monday, my DVR will be recording while I'm at work, and the show will be waiting for me when I get home!


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ziggy Stardust on May 18, 2012, 11:30:02 PM
God, someone needs to record it and upload it! please! i need to see this


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Too Much Sugar on May 18, 2012, 11:34:35 PM
For those in CA, the new Charlie Rose will be aired in 25 minutes, at 12 A.M., PDT, on KOCE.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Justin on May 19, 2012, 12:23:58 AM
Poor Charlie.  He doesn't even know what Facebook is.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Justin on May 19, 2012, 12:59:42 AM
Everyone laughed at Dennis' quote that "SMiLE is so good it makes Pet Sounds stink"...but Al stopped everyone and stood up for SMiLE saying, "Guys....listen to "Surf's Up."  And went on to say that there is some truth in Dennis' statement. 

A thousand points to Al! 


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on May 19, 2012, 01:08:32 AM
Charlie Rose says "so SMiLE was to be your masterpiece?" VERY awkward silence. Brian finally says "Well, it was a labor of love. It's not my favorite album. I like "Lucky Old Sun, Summer Days..." then interrupted. Rose later quotes Dennis' saying that SMiLE is "so good, it makes Pet Sounds stink", to general derision. Mike: "Dennis would say anything" Someone cites his affinity for "shock value". To his everlasting credit, Al jumps in: "Now listen guys, you listen to "Surf's Up" and it's a masterpiece of lyric, production etc. (something of the sort), he (Dennis) WASN"T WRONG". Mike: "But to put down Pet Sounds isn't cool". Short shrift and almost no reflection or attention given to it overall, despite Rose's two valiant efforts to broach the topic. Mike wasn't very supportive of PS in its day, not to mention SMiLE. He's gotten on board with the former, but still won't acknowledge the latter, either because he still doesn't see the merit (doubtful) or because he can't swallow his pride and praise it belatedly, for fear he'll look bad. Great to see them so comfortable, even though the interview is shallow and unrevealing, and so amazing to see that GV session footage with Brian in full flight. Mike really rubs me the wrong way though, no matter how much gloss is applied to his image for purposes of rehabilitation. Unctuous and sanctimonious, I'd love (no pun intended) to see him put on the spot and have to face more of a hardball interview than Rose is capable of.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: runnersdialzero on May 19, 2012, 01:21:17 AM
Mike wasn't very supportive of PS in its day, not to mention SMiLE. He's gotten on board with the former, but still won't acknowledge the latter, either because he still doesn't see the merit (doubtful) or because he can't swallow his pride and praise it belatedly, for fear he'll look bad.

Check out the official videos posted about The Smile Sessions last year, they're on YouTube. Mike talks a lot about Smile, and his story was basically that he was genuinely unsure what their fanbase would think of Van Dyke Parks' lyrics. He uses some analogy about a fan in a particular state, wondering what they would think of these lyrics, and for the first time I kind of felt a, "Hm, that's actually a fair point," toward Mike's attitude back in those days. Not saying I agree with him by any means, but still, fair point. And again, let's not forget that despite his concern, he still sang the lyrics because he trusted Brian. In the videos, he goes on to praise the music and the project as a whole in various spots. He's spoken about it plenty recently.

Honestly, as interesting as this stuff is, the guys are in their 70s and are seemingly genuinely getting along really well. Now is not the time to dig up the uglier parts of their past with "hardball" questions.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Jaspy on May 19, 2012, 02:33:20 AM
Can't wait to see this interview.

And there will never be another album like Pet Sounds.
There's a reason why Pet Sounds is Pet Sounds.
If it would be that simple to create another Pet Sounds,
Pet Sounds wouldn't be Pet Sounds.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Lowbacca on May 19, 2012, 04:49:18 AM
Never seen that 2005 interview with Charlie Rose, thanks!!

Sheesh, Brian's rambling on about the rock & roll album (to be released in 2006) and assures Charlie Rose "It's gonna happen. It's gonna happen."... okay, where is it?  :( Hope he's going to record it with the BBs next year, and if not, on his own. I wanna hear the damn thing. Might be awesome. Might be like 12 tracks la "Message Man."  :o


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ziggy Stardust on May 19, 2012, 04:58:24 AM
Charlie Rose says "so SMiLE was to be your masterpiece?" VERY awkward silence. Brian finally says "Well, it was a labor of love. It's not my favorite album. I like "Lucky Old Sun, Summer Days..." then interrupted. Rose later quotes Dennis' saying that SMiLE is "so good, it makes Pet Sounds stink", to general derision. Mike: "Dennis would say anything" Someone cites his affinity for "shock value". To his everlasting credit, Al jumps in: "Now listen guys, you listen to "Surf's Up" and it's a masterpiece of lyric, production etc. (something of the sort), he (Dennis) WASN"T WRONG". Mike: "But to put down Pet Sounds isn't cool". Short shrift and almost no reflection or attention given to it overall, despite Rose's two valiant efforts to broach the topic. Mike wasn't very supportive of PS in its day, not to mention SMiLE. He's gotten on board with the former, but still won't acknowledge the latter, either because he still doesn't see the merit (doubtful) or because he can't swallow his pride and praise it belatedly, for fear he'll look bad. Great to see them so comfortable, even though the interview is shallow and unrevealing, and so amazing to see that GV session footage with Brian in full flight. Mike really rubs me the wrong way though, no matter how much gloss is applied to his image for purposes of rehabilitation. Unctuous and sanctimonious, I'd love (no pun intended) to see him put on the spot and have to face more of a hardball interview than Rose is capable of.

Dennis Wilson was right and i totally understand what he means.

But why doesn't Mike Love mentions Summer In Paradise? wasn't this supposed to be his ultimate masterplan and masterpiece of what the Beach Boys should be/sound like ? Summer Of Love man, now that's music, forget Dennis and SMiLE man.



Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Lowbacca on May 19, 2012, 05:01:49 AM
Last night's interview ain't online yet, right?


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ziggy Stardust on May 19, 2012, 05:03:52 AM
Still not on the website at least :/


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Autotune on May 19, 2012, 05:26:33 AM
Charlie Rose says "so SMiLE was to be your masterpiece?" VERY awkward silence. Brian finally says "Well, it was a labor of love. It's not my favorite album. I like "Lucky Old Sun, Summer Days..." then interrupted. Rose later quotes Dennis' saying that SMiLE is "so good, it makes Pet Sounds stink", to general derision. Mike: "Dennis would say anything" Someone cites his affinity for "shock value". To his everlasting credit, Al jumps in: "Now listen guys, you listen to "Surf's Up" and it's a masterpiece of lyric, production etc. (something of the sort), he (Dennis) WASN"T WRONG". Mike: "But to put down Pet Sounds isn't cool". Short shrift and almost no reflection or attention given to it overall, despite Rose's two valiant efforts to broach the topic. Mike wasn't very supportive of PS in its day, not to mention SMiLE. He's gotten on board with the former, but still won't acknowledge the latter, either because he still doesn't see the merit (doubtful) or because he can't swallow his pride and praise it belatedly, for fear he'll look bad. Great to see them so comfortable, even though the interview is shallow and unrevealing, and so amazing to see that GV session footage with Brian in full flight. Mike really rubs me the wrong way though, no matter how much gloss is applied to his image for purposes of rehabilitation. Unctuous and sanctimonious, I'd love (no pun intended) to see him put on the spot and have to face more of a hardball interview than Rose is capable of.

To each their own phobias. There's no gloss applied here; they're too old for that. They're real people.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Rocker on May 19, 2012, 06:03:34 AM
Hadn't heard about this interview ! Why didn't say they announce it in a way they did with QVC etc. ?

Anyway, we'll know when the interview is up when the link on this site is activated:

http://www.charlierose.com/schedule/ (http://www.charlierose.com/schedule/)


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Amy B. on May 19, 2012, 06:36:35 AM
Charlie Rose says "so SMiLE was to be your masterpiece?" VERY awkward silence. Brian finally says "Well, it was a labor of love. It's not my favorite album. I like "Lucky Old Sun, Summer Days..." then interrupted. Rose later quotes Dennis' saying that SMiLE is "so good, it makes Pet Sounds stink", to general derision. Mike: "Dennis would say anything" Someone cites his affinity for "shock value". To his everlasting credit, Al jumps in: "Now listen guys, you listen to "Surf's Up" and it's a masterpiece of lyric, production etc. (something of the sort), he (Dennis) WASN"T WRONG". Mike: "But to put down Pet Sounds isn't cool". Short shrift and almost no reflection or attention given to it overall, despite Rose's two valiant efforts to broach the topic. Mike wasn't very supportive of PS in its day, not to mention SMiLE. He's gotten on board with the former, but still won't acknowledge the latter, either because he still doesn't see the merit (doubtful) or because he can't swallow his pride and praise it belatedly, for fear he'll look bad. Great to see them so comfortable, even though the interview is shallow and unrevealing, and so amazing to see that GV session footage with Brian in full flight. Mike really rubs me the wrong way though, no matter how much gloss is applied to his image for purposes of rehabilitation. Unctuous and sanctimonious, I'd love (no pun intended) to see him put on the spot and have to face more of a hardball interview than Rose is capable of.

As much as everyone here is thrilled that the guys seem to be getting along, I think we have to acknowledge that old contentions don't just disappear. I'm sure SMiLE is a sore spot. First of all, I don't think Dennis meant to put down Pet Sounds, and it's awfully simplistic of Mike to jump to that conclusion. Dennis was using Pet Sounds in the comparison to emphasize how good Smile was, a la "That new movie is so good it makes Citizen Kane stink." Citizen Kane is one of the best movies ever made, but the new movie is EVEN BETTER.

It's true that Mike said he was concerned about how the fans would react to the lyrics, but that was 45 years ago. The album was released and the fans love it. I've always thought Mike should have been a big boy about it and acknowledge that his beloved cousin Brian overcame a heck of a lot to release the 2004 version of Smile. But no, he still seems incensed about the whole thing. I did read Mike's essay with the Smile box set, and it seemed too little too late to me. My view of Mike has changed over the years. I used to really dislike him, but I've softened over time. Still, there are parts of his personality that annoy me greatly. Kudos to Al for speaking up about Smile. It was a kind comment that didn't do himself any favors but probably meant a lot to Brian.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Autotune on May 19, 2012, 07:22:42 AM
Mike hater: "I've learned to really like, understand and respect Mike. Still think he's a talentless prick, though".


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ziggy Stardust on May 19, 2012, 07:57:32 AM
haterzz gonna h4te boiii !!!1!1!1!1!

 ::)


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Amy B. on May 19, 2012, 07:59:17 AM
Mike hater: "I've learned to really like, understand and respect Mike. Still think he's a talentless prick, though".

That's all you got out of what I said? Really?   ::)


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: b00ts on May 19, 2012, 09:22:57 AM
Mike wasn't very supportive of PS in its day, not to mention SMiLE. He's gotten on board with the former, but still won't acknowledge the latter, either because he still doesn't see the merit (doubtful) or because he can't swallow his pride and praise it belatedly, for fear he'll look bad.

Check out the official videos posted about The Smile Sessions last year, they're on YouTube. Mike talks a lot about Smile, and his story was basically that he was genuinely unsure what their fanbase would think of Van Dyke Parks' lyrics. He uses some analogy about a fan in a particular state, wondering what they would think of these lyrics, and for the first time I kind of felt a, "Hm, that's actually a fair point," toward Mike's attitude back in those days. Not saying I agree with him by any means, but still, fair point. And again, let's not forget that despite his concern, he still sang the lyrics because he trusted Brian. In the videos, he goes on to praise the music and the project as a whole in various spots. He's spoken about it plenty recently.

Honestly, as interesting as this stuff is, the guys are in their 70s and are seemingly genuinely getting along really well. Now is not the time to dig up the uglier parts of their past with "hardball" questions.
This is the problem - what if McCartney had been scared about how fans would react to the lyrics on Sgt Pepper? This attitude (in general, not just Mike's) is what held the Beach Boys back commercially post-Pet Sounds, which is ironic considering that Mike' concern was commerciality.

The events of 2003-2004 and the release of the box set last year both show that SMiLe was commercially viable, at least in the past decade. Hindsight is always 20-20, but it is somewhat upsetting that Mike and the rest (aside from Al) still apparently dismiss SMiLe in this manner.

This leads into what was written in the new SPIN article about the upcoming album. According to the author, a band member told her that "From there to Back Again" and "Pacific Coast Highway" were part of a seven-minute suite ("My Life Suite") but that The Beach Boys camp resisted the suite, and it was pared down to just those two songs.

Like many others here, I had figured that the track breaks were just shuffled a bit between the first tracklisting with "My Life" and the new one, but apparently the suite was nixed, with these two songs remaining.

It is distressing because Brian should not be fighting the same losing battles that he was fighting in the mid-1960s. This is a guy whose confidence has been shaky since the mid-60s and he needs security - he needs people around him who understand what he is all about. From what I hear of the Charlie Rose interview, 3/5 of the band still doesn't 'get' SMiLe, even though the vast majority of the fanbase does. Perhaps this is why we have had no songs from the Smile Sessions box set on the current tour, unless perhaps you include "Heroes and Villains" (which is being played closer to the the single arrangement) and "Good Vibrations."

Perhaps Van Dyke was onto something with his post about the reunion. I want to believe it is all good times, but I don't like hearing about Brian's magnum opus being dismissed by the rest of the group. Kudos to Al for sticking up for him.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Jon Stebbins on May 19, 2012, 09:34:03 AM
Anyone, including Mike, who thinks Dennis was in any way derisive of Pet Sounds by making that statement about Smile is an idiot. As many people with functioning depth and awareness have pointed out, Dennis loved Pet Sounds, he was constantly touting its greatness, and to him Smile was so unbelievably fantastic it made one of the greatest records ever recorded pale in comparison. Dennis was on the front lines of the Smile cult...and only Al had the guts to point out that Dennis was right. "Surf's Up" is better than anything on Pet Sounds.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Autotune on May 19, 2012, 09:41:49 AM
Mike wasn't very supportive of PS in its day, not to mention SMiLE. He's gotten on board with the former, but still won't acknowledge the latter, either because he still doesn't see the merit (doubtful) or because he can't swallow his pride and praise it belatedly, for fear he'll look bad.

Check out the official videos posted about The Smile Sessions last year, they're on YouTube. Mike talks a lot about Smile, and his story was basically that he was genuinely unsure what their fanbase would think of Van Dyke Parks' lyrics. He uses some analogy about a fan in a particular state, wondering what they would think of these lyrics, and for the first time I kind of felt a, "Hm, that's actually a fair point," toward Mike's attitude back in those days. Not saying I agree with him by any means, but still, fair point. And again, let's not forget that despite his concern, he still sang the lyrics because he trusted Brian. In the videos, he goes on to praise the music and the project as a whole in various spots. He's spoken about it plenty recently.

Honestly, as interesting as this stuff is, the guys are in their 70s and are seemingly genuinely getting along really well. Now is not the time to dig up the uglier parts of their past with "hardball" questions.
This is the problem - what if McCartney had been scared about how fans would react to the lyrics on Sgt Pepper? This attitude (in general, not just Mike's) is what held the Beach Boys back commercially post-Pet Sounds, which is ironic considering that Mike' concern was commerciality.

The events of 2003-2004 and the release of the box set last year both show that SMiLe was commercially viable, at least in the past decade. Hindsight is always 20-20, but it is somewhat upsetting that Mike and the rest (aside from Al) still apparently dismiss SMiLe in this manner.

This leads into what was written in the new SPIN article about the upcoming album. According to the author, a band member told her that "From there to Back Again" and "Pacific Coast Highway" were part of a seven-minute suite ("My Life Suite") but that The Beach Boys camp resisted the suite, and it was pared down to just those two songs.


Interesting story, considering that it was per the Beach Boys (namely Bruce and Mike) that we heard about that suite. This seems normal group dynamics.

Dennis meant what he meant. But he chose his words.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: SamMcK on May 19, 2012, 09:43:26 AM
Al just one about 1000 points from  me for that comment, "Surfs Up" is also up there with "Good Vibrations" and "God Only Knows" as perhaps Brian's greatest song ever.
It should be mandatory to be played on tour.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Rocker on May 19, 2012, 09:45:54 AM
I never thought someone could take Dennis' statement in that way. He clearly was praising Smile and not dismissing Pet Sounds.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Musketeer on May 19, 2012, 10:00:24 AM
I never thought someone could take Dennis' statement in that way. He clearly was praising Smile and not dismissing Pet Sounds.


Agreed. I would like to think that during the course of a live interview, Mike just misunderstood the quote.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: b00ts on May 19, 2012, 10:04:26 AM
Mike wasn't very supportive of PS in its day, not to mention SMiLE. He's gotten on board with the former, but still won't acknowledge the latter, either because he still doesn't see the merit (doubtful) or because he can't swallow his pride and praise it belatedly, for fear he'll look bad.

Check out the official videos posted about The Smile Sessions last year, they're on YouTube. Mike talks a lot about Smile, and his story was basically that he was genuinely unsure what their fanbase would think of Van Dyke Parks' lyrics. He uses some analogy about a fan in a particular state, wondering what they would think of these lyrics, and for the first time I kind of felt a, "Hm, that's actually a fair point," toward Mike's attitude back in those days. Not saying I agree with him by any means, but still, fair point. And again, let's not forget that despite his concern, he still sang the lyrics because he trusted Brian. In the videos, he goes on to praise the music and the project as a whole in various spots. He's spoken about it plenty recently.

Honestly, as interesting as this stuff is, the guys are in their 70s and are seemingly genuinely getting along really well. Now is not the time to dig up the uglier parts of their past with "hardball" questions.
This is the problem - what if McCartney had been scared about how fans would react to the lyrics on Sgt Pepper? This attitude (in general, not just Mike's) is what held the Beach Boys back commercially post-Pet Sounds, which is ironic considering that Mike' concern was commerciality.

The events of 2003-2004 and the release of the box set last year both show that SMiLe was commercially viable, at least in the past decade. Hindsight is always 20-20, but it is somewhat upsetting that Mike and the rest (aside from Al) still apparently dismiss SMiLe in this manner.

This leads into what was written in the new SPIN article about the upcoming album. According to the author, a band member told her that "From there to Back Again" and "Pacific Coast Highway" were part of a seven-minute suite ("My Life Suite") but that The Beach Boys camp resisted the suite, and it was pared down to just those two songs.


Interesting story, considering that it was per the Beach Boys (namely Bruce and Mike) that we heard about that suite. This seems normal group dynamics.

Dennis meant what he meant. But he chose his words.
The time I heard about the suite was when Brian said "There is a suite and it goes on and on until just like that, there's no more album." Didn't realize Mike and Bruce also mentioned it.

And yes, "Surf's Up" is probably better than any one song on Pet Sounds.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: oldsurferdude on May 19, 2012, 10:26:39 AM
Mike hater: "I've learned to really like, understand and respect Mike. Still think he's a talentless prick, though".

That's all you got out of what I said? Really?   ::)
What would you expect from a Myke Luhver? ::)


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Zach95 on May 19, 2012, 10:28:42 AM
Mike wasn't very supportive of PS in its day, not to mention SMiLE. He's gotten on board with the former, but still won't acknowledge the latter, either because he still doesn't see the merit (doubtful) or because he can't swallow his pride and praise it belatedly, for fear he'll look bad.

Check out the official videos posted about The Smile Sessions last year, they're on YouTube. Mike talks a lot about Smile, and his story was basically that he was genuinely unsure what their fanbase would think of Van Dyke Parks' lyrics. He uses some analogy about a fan in a particular state, wondering what they would think of these lyrics, and for the first time I kind of felt a, "Hm, that's actually a fair point," toward Mike's attitude back in those days. Not saying I agree with him by any means, but still, fair point. And again, let's not forget that despite his concern, he still sang the lyrics because he trusted Brian. In the videos, he goes on to praise the music and the project as a whole in various spots. He's spoken about it plenty recently.

Honestly, as interesting as this stuff is, the guys are in their 70s and are seemingly genuinely getting along really well. Now is not the time to dig up the uglier parts of their past with "hardball" questions.
This is the problem - what if McCartney had been scared about how fans would react to the lyrics on Sgt Pepper? This attitude (in general, not just Mike's) is what held the Beach Boys back commercially post-Pet Sounds, which is ironic considering that Mike' concern was commerciality.

The events of 2003-2004 and the release of the box set last year both show that SMiLe was commercially viable, at least in the past decade. Hindsight is always 20-20, but it is somewhat upsetting that Mike and the rest (aside from Al) still apparently dismiss SMiLe in this manner.

This leads into what was written in the new SPIN article about the upcoming album. According to the author, a band member told her that "From there to Back Again" and "Pacific Coast Highway" were part of a seven-minute suite ("My Life Suite") but that The Beach Boys camp resisted the suite, and it was pared down to just those two songs.

Like many others here, I had figured that the track breaks were just shuffled a bit between the first tracklisting with "My Life" and the new one, but apparently the suite was nixed, with these two songs remaining.

It is distressing because Brian should not be fighting the same losing battles that he was fighting in the mid-1960s. This is a guy whose confidence has been shaky since the mid-60s and he needs security - he needs people around him who understand what he is all about. From what I hear of the Charlie Rose interview, 3/5 of the band still doesn't 'get' SMiLe, even though the vast majority of the fanbase does. Perhaps this is why we have had no songs from the Smile Sessions box set on the current tour, unless perhaps you include "Heroes and Villains" (which is being played closer to the the single arrangement) and "Good Vibrations."

Perhaps Van Dyke was onto something with his post about the reunion. I want to believe it is all good times, but I don't like hearing about Brian's magnum opus being dismissed by the rest of the group. Kudos to Al for sticking up for him.

I guess I missed this.  What did Van Dyke say?


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Runaways on May 19, 2012, 10:37:10 AM
Mike wasn't very supportive of PS in its day, not to mention SMiLE. He's gotten on board with the former, but still won't acknowledge the latter, either because he still doesn't see the merit (doubtful) or because he can't swallow his pride and praise it belatedly, for fear he'll look bad.

Check out the official videos posted about The Smile Sessions last year, they're on YouTube. Mike talks a lot about Smile, and his story was basically that he was genuinely unsure what their fanbase would think of Van Dyke Parks' lyrics. He uses some analogy about a fan in a particular state, wondering what they would think of these lyrics, and for the first time I kind of felt a, "Hm, that's actually a fair point," toward Mike's attitude back in those days. Not saying I agree with him by any means, but still, fair point. And again, let's not forget that despite his concern, he still sang the lyrics because he trusted Brian. In the videos, he goes on to praise the music and the project as a whole in various spots. He's spoken about it plenty recently.

Honestly, as interesting as this stuff is, the guys are in their 70s and are seemingly genuinely getting along really well. Now is not the time to dig up the uglier parts of their past with "hardball" questions.
This is the problem - what if McCartney had been scared about how fans would react to the lyrics on Sgt Pepper? This attitude (in general, not just Mike's) is what held the Beach Boys back commercially post-Pet Sounds, which is ironic considering that Mike' concern was commerciality.

The events of 2003-2004 and the release of the box set last year both show that SMiLe was commercially viable, at least in the past decade. Hindsight is always 20-20, but it is somewhat upsetting that Mike and the rest (aside from Al) still apparently dismiss SMiLe in this manner.

This leads into what was written in the new SPIN article about the upcoming album. According to the author, a band member told her that "From there to Back Again" and "Pacific Coast Highway" were part of a seven-minute suite ("My Life Suite") but that The Beach Boys camp resisted the suite, and it was pared down to just those two songs.

Like many others here, I had figured that the track breaks were just shuffled a bit between the first tracklisting with "My Life" and the new one, but apparently the suite was nixed, with these two songs remaining.

It is distressing because Brian should not be fighting the same losing battles that he was fighting in the mid-1960s. This is a guy whose confidence has been shaky since the mid-60s and he needs security - he needs people around him who understand what he is all about. From what I hear of the Charlie Rose interview, 3/5 of the band still doesn't 'get' SMiLe, even though the vast majority of the fanbase does. Perhaps this is why we have had no songs from the Smile Sessions box set on the current tour, unless perhaps you include "Heroes and Villains" (which is being played closer to the the single arrangement) and "Good Vibrations."

Perhaps Van Dyke was onto something with his post about the reunion. I want to believe it is all good times, but I don't like hearing about Brian's magnum opus being dismissed by the rest of the group. Kudos to Al for sticking up for him.

I guess I missed this.  What did Van Dyke say?

it was for money and not genuine i think. 


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ziggy Stardust on May 19, 2012, 11:05:32 AM
I never thought someone could take Dennis' statement in that way. He clearly was praising Smile and not dismissing Pet Sounds.

Exactly, we all know how beautiful Pet Sounds and so did Dennis, that's why he said that, just to show how much AMAZING SMiLE is, and he was right, it is much deeper.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: b00ts on May 19, 2012, 11:07:51 AM
Mike wasn't very supportive of PS in its day, not to mention SMiLE. He's gotten on board with the former, but still won't acknowledge the latter, either because he still doesn't see the merit (doubtful) or because he can't swallow his pride and praise it belatedly, for fear he'll look bad.

Check out the official videos posted about The Smile Sessions last year, they're on YouTube. Mike talks a lot about Smile, and his story was basically that he was genuinely unsure what their fanbase would think of Van Dyke Parks' lyrics. He uses some analogy about a fan in a particular state, wondering what they would think of these lyrics, and for the first time I kind of felt a, "Hm, that's actually a fair point," toward Mike's attitude back in those days. Not saying I agree with him by any means, but still, fair point. And again, let's not forget that despite his concern, he still sang the lyrics because he trusted Brian. In the videos, he goes on to praise the music and the project as a whole in various spots. He's spoken about it plenty recently.

Honestly, as interesting as this stuff is, the guys are in their 70s and are seemingly genuinely getting along really well. Now is not the time to dig up the uglier parts of their past with "hardball" questions.
This is the problem - what if McCartney had been scared about how fans would react to the lyrics on Sgt Pepper? This attitude (in general, not just Mike's) is what held the Beach Boys back commercially post-Pet Sounds, which is ironic considering that Mike' concern was commerciality.

The events of 2003-2004 and the release of the box set last year both show that SMiLe was commercially viable, at least in the past decade. Hindsight is always 20-20, but it is somewhat upsetting that Mike and the rest (aside from Al) still apparently dismiss SMiLe in this manner.

This leads into what was written in the new SPIN article about the upcoming album. According to the author, a band
(...)
Perhaps Van Dyke was onto something with his post about the reunion. I want to believe it is all good times, but I don't like hearing about Brian's magnum opus being dismissed by the rest of the group. Kudos to Al for sticking up for him.

I guess I missed this.  What did Van Dyke say?

it was for money and not genuine i think. 
Of course it is for money. Hell, Mike admits as much in the lyrics to "Spring Vacation." That doesn't mean it isn't also genuine on some level - the boys seem to be enjoying each others' company, they've made what seems to be a good album, and they've been playing excellent shows.

The part of Van Dyke's comment that I was referring to was that he wasn't happy to see Brian back with this specific group of people. I don't know if he was referring to Mike or just the whole group. I am wondering what we are going to read 5 years from now about the suite - hopefully it wasn't a conflict where they made Brian pare down his artistically ambitious contribution.
The part of t


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Rocker on May 19, 2012, 12:54:50 PM
The reunion was/is not about Smile, though. It's about the greatest band ever celebrating their 50th anniversary. And why should Mike take back his opinion if it's sincere ? I don't agree with him and think his reasons are stupid. But if that's how he feels, it's ok. It's great and a sign of true love between family and friends that they can get together and be happy without having to hide their opinions. That's what is called respect. Brian probably still doesn't like Student Demonstration Time and won't change his mind abou that just because of the reunion


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: b00ts on May 19, 2012, 01:13:04 PM
The reunion was/is not about Smile, though. It's about the greatest band ever celebrating their 50th anniversary. And why should Mike take back his opinion if it's sincere ? I don't agree with him and think his reasons are stupid. But if that's how he feels, it's ok. It's great and a sign of true love between family and friends that they can get together and be happy without having to hide their opinions. That's what is called respect. Brian probably still doesn't like Student Demonstration Time and won't change his mind abou that just because of the reunion
I enjoy the reunion and I'm happy they are back together. I don't think Mike should take back his opinion, but he (and the rest of the group) should consider being more respectful towards SMiLe at this point, in public and around his cousin, who is clearly very fragile... I'm glad to see that Al jumped in with his defense of SMiLe. This snatch of conversation is endemic of a significant problems that faced Brian duing the production of SMiLe in the 1960s.

It is not right or accurate to blame it all on Mike, as the entire band had reservations at the time, which is understanadble. Today, SMiLe has been released in two forms, one of which was against all odds, and it is rightly considered one of the greatest albums of all time. Brian deserves for SMiLe to be acknowledged by those around him, whether grudgingly, insincerely, or whatever.

This is the kind of attitude in the Beach Boys organization that was a factor in hs abandonment of the album. It is also partially responsible for Brian demurring from any substansive talk of SMiLE until the early 2000's, saying only "The music wasn't appropriate." The people around him felt that way, so he did too.

As for Brian badmouthing "Student Demonstration Time," I would think that to be bad form. It is a strawman you set up in your post though; first of all, Mike did not badmouth SMiLe; the whole group, sans Al, was apparently dismissive of it.

Second of all, Mike worked on "Student Demonstration Time" for a short period and released it without any hectoring or opposition from those around him (as far as I know).

In stark contrast, Brian worked on the writing and recording of SMiLe for many months, striving to get it perfect - working with session musicians, Van Dyke Parks, and the other boys, painstakingly crafting his magnum opus. He eventually had a nervous breakdown and has never been the same since.

Even if SMiLe was objectively terrible, given Brian's mindset and his clear artistic sensitivity, it would behoove the rest of the group, 40+ years later, to be supportive about it, if only for the sake of Brian's well-being and mindset.

All that said, I don't think that this was meant as a slight against Brian - it was an off-the-cuff answer in an interview, and Mike et. al. probably felt bad afterwards when they realized that they were being dismissive. We can't all watch what we say at all times, and as you said, we can't ask Mike or Bruce to change their opinions.

Many would laugh off something like that, but Brian is very sensitive. I  think this exchange is endemic of the situation surrounding SMiLe and Brian's post-1966 work with the group. It is probably part of the reason he feels so secure with his backing band.



Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Rocker on May 19, 2012, 01:23:53 PM
bOOts, I haven't seen the interview and please don't get take the Student Dem.... thing too seriously. I just had the feeling that this discussion would end with Mike getting blamed for making Brian do this reunion for the money (of course money is a part of it) but not changing his mind about Smile. Student D.T. was just an example for my point that they don't have to agree on everything and still can get along enjoying the reunion. Therefor it's allright if Mike still is not a fan of Smile. That doesn't mean that his joy of being together with the boys and especially Brian aren't sincere.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: b00ts on May 19, 2012, 01:33:25 PM
bOOts, I haven't seen the interview and please don't get take the Student Dem.... thing too seriously. I just had the feeling that this discussion would end with Mike getting blamed for making Brian do this reunion for the money (of course money is a part of it) but not changing his mind about Smile. Student D.T. was just an example for my point that they don't have to agree on everything and still can get along enjoying the reunion. Therefor it's allright if Mike still is not a fan of Smile. That doesn't mean that his joy of being together with the boys and especially Brian aren't sincere.
Sorry Rocker, I wasn't trying to jump down your throat. As for your statement that they don't have to see eye to eye on everything to enjoy the reunion, I concur!


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Autotune on May 19, 2012, 01:55:41 PM
Mike wasn't very supportive of PS in its day, not to mention SMiLE. He's gotten on board with the former, but still won't acknowledge the latter, either because he still doesn't see the merit (doubtful) or because he can't swallow his pride and praise it belatedly, for fear he'll look bad.

Check out the official videos posted about The Smile Sessions last year, they're on YouTube. Mike talks a lot about Smile, and his story was basically that he was genuinely unsure what their fanbase would think of Van Dyke Parks' lyrics. He uses some analogy about a fan in a particular state, wondering what they would think of these lyrics, and for the first time I kind of felt a, "Hm, that's actually a fair point," toward Mike's attitude back in those days. Not saying I agree with him by any means, but still, fair point. And again, let's not forget that despite his concern, he still sang the lyrics because he trusted Brian. In the videos, he goes on to praise the music and the project as a whole in various spots. He's spoken about it plenty recently.

Honestly, as interesting as this stuff is, the guys are in their 70s and are seemingly genuinely getting along really well. Now is not the time to dig up the uglier parts of their past with "hardball" questions.
This is the problem - what if McCartney had been scared about how fans would react to the lyrics on Sgt Pepper? This attitude (in general, not just Mike's) is what held the Beach Boys back commercially post-Pet Sounds, which is ironic considering that Mike' concern was commerciality.

The events of 2003-2004 and the release of the box set last year both show that SMiLe was commercially viable, at least in the past decade. Hindsight is always 20-20, but it is somewhat upsetting that Mike and the rest (aside from Al) still apparently dismiss SMiLe in this manner.

This leads into what was written in the new SPIN article about the upcoming album. According to the author, a band member told her that "From there to Back Again" and "Pacific Coast Highway" were part of a seven-minute suite ("My Life Suite") but that The Beach Boys camp resisted the suite, and it was pared down to just those two songs.


Interesting story, considering that it was per the Beach Boys (namely Bruce and Mike) that we heard about that suite. This seems normal group dynamics.

Dennis meant what he meant. But he chose his words.
The time I heard about the suite was when Brian said "There is a suite and it goes on and on until just like that, there's no more album." Didn't realize Mike and Bruce also mentioned it.

And yes, "Surf's Up" is probably better than any one song on Pet Sounds.

I'm sure the suite was mentioned before the interview you mention (btw, wasn't that a joint telephone interview with Brian and Mike?).

Regarding the suite concept, I find it amusing that fans have wet dreams for such a thing. As if the suite form was elevated art per se, miles up above a string of 3-minute songs. There is also this bizarre idea that Brian gives free reign to his creativity through suite composition. In this sense, the suite in an album would be his most sincere artistic approach. That's bullshit. Brian's a songwriter. It was Lenny Waronker who first insisted on a suite in a BW album. Since then it seems to have become mandatory for every BW album statement to have some sort of suite to be legitimate. Rio Grande was strong, Happy Days weak, and TLOS can be enjoyed as an album of songs without the transitions or spoken parts (which are ok). And each of them is a collection of individual songs, conceived as such, only to be glued into a suite when it's time to make the "Brian's a genius" statement again. As if needed.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Rocker on May 19, 2012, 01:58:31 PM
No problem. It was nothing against you or any other member. Was just a feeling I had and that something I thought should be prevented


@Dr. Lenny:

I agree. I'd rather have some good pop music than a forced so and so suite


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: b00ts on May 19, 2012, 02:21:15 PM
Mike wasn't very supportive of PS in its day, not to mention SMiLE. He's gotten on board with the former, but still won't acknowledge the latter, either because he still doesn't see the merit (doubtful) or because he can't swallow his pride and praise it belatedly, for fear he'll look bad.


Honestly, as interesting as this stuff is, the guys are in their 70s and are seemingly genuinely getting along really well. Now is not the time to dig up the uglier parts of their past with "hardball" questions.
This is the problem - what if McCartney had been scared about how fans would react to the lyrics on Sgt Pepper? This attitude (in general, not just Mike's) is what held the Beach Boys back commercially post-Pet Sounds, which is ironic considering that Mike' concern was commerciality.

The events of 2003-2004 and the release of the box set last year both show that SMiLe was commercially viable, at least in the past decade. Hindsight is always 20-20, but it is somewhat upsetting that Mike and the rest (aside from Al) still apparently dismiss SMiLe in this manner.

This leads into what was written in the new SPIN article about the upcoming album. According to the author, a band member told her that "From there to Back Again" and "Pacific Coast Highway" were part of a seven-minute suite ("My Life Suite") but that The Beach Boys camp resisted the suite, and it was pared down to just those two songs.


Interesting story, considering that it was per the Beach Boys (namely Bruce and Mike) that we heard about that suite. This seems normal group dynamics.

Dennis meant what he meant. But he chose his words.
The time I heard about the suite was when Brian said "There is a suite and it goes on and on until just like that, there's no more album." Didn't realize Mike and Bruce also mentioned it.

And yes, "Surf's Up" is probably better than any one song on Pet Sounds.

I'm sure the suite was mentioned before the interview you mention (btw, wasn't that a joint telephone interview with Brian and Mike?).

Regarding the suite concept, I find it amusing that fans have wet dreams for such a thing. As if the suite form was elevated art per se, miles up above a string of 3-minute songs. There is also this bizarre idea that Brian gives free reign to his creativity through suite composition. In this sense, the suite in an album would be his most sincere artistic approach. That's bullsh*t. Brian's a songwriter. It was Lenny Waronker who first insisted on a suite in a BW album. Since then it seems to have become mandatory for every BW album statement to have some sort of suite to be legitimate. Rio Grande was strong, Happy Days weak, and TLOS can be enjoyed as an album of songs without the transitions or spoken parts (which are ok). And each of them is a collection of individual songs, conceived as such, only to be glued into a suite when it's time to make the "Brian's a genius" statement again. As if needed.
Good point, Lenny. Just because there is a suite doesn't mean it is good quality. Brian is a consummate master of the two to three minute pop song, and suites are certainly not the only thing he creates that are of of artistic interest.

It does seem, however, that Brian puts a lot of musical and creative energy into suites: each song on SMiLe is a suite unto itself, as is the totality of the album; Mount Vernon and Fairway, and of course "Rio Grande" and "Happy Days," as you mentioned.

I would be willing to bet that if Brian decided to write a suite to close the first Beach Boys album in many years, and possibly their last album ever, that it would be high-quality. It also gives Beach Boys fans a new "white elephant" - the lost suite from the reunion album. What happened to it? Why wasn't it included? I'm sure we will hear it eventually, and until we do, it is fun to speculate.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Emdeeh on May 19, 2012, 04:05:50 PM
Interview not showing at 7 p.m. ET Saturday on Bloomberg -- it's the Picasso-related one running again. I'll try again at 10.....

Edit: Not at 10 either, Picasso again.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: EgoHanger1966 on May 19, 2012, 04:17:49 PM
If it's the BB's one at 10 tonight (like you, I just checked for the one at 7), they have episodes running at 7 and 10 on Monday.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Shady on May 19, 2012, 04:56:36 PM
Still no video of this, damn!


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Micha on May 19, 2012, 05:03:49 PM
This is the problem - what if McCartney had been scared about how fans would react to the lyrics on Sgt Pepper?

He would have gotten himself a problem then. But the Pepper lyrics are not as far out as SMiLE's, more "relatable" and less cryptic.

"Surf's Up" is better than anything on Pet Sounds.

Actually that's an opinion, not a fact. Although Surf's Up is a fascinating piece, I think that some Pet Sounds stuff is better. I liked your last book though. :)

It's true that Mike said he was concerned about how the fans would react to the lyrics, but that was 45 years ago. The album was released and the fans love it.

Today's fans love it, but would the fans of the time would have loved it? I'm not so sure about that. Most people I played it to don't like it, one friend even found it depressing. And generally she like the Beach Boys. I love it, but by far not everybody does.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: EgoHanger1966 on May 19, 2012, 05:10:42 PM
Was it a full hour of The Beach Boys being interviewed?


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Landlocked on May 19, 2012, 05:19:10 PM

Today's fans love it, but would the fans of the time would have loved it? I'm not so sure about that. Most people I played it to don't like it, one friend even found it depressing. And generally she like the Beach Boys. I love it, but by far not everybody does.

I'd imagine that such bombastic lyrics would have been even more well received than they are today in that golden age of psychedelia.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Autotune on May 19, 2012, 05:25:44 PM
This is an anticlimatic thread. We're having a blast with the reunion. The BBs give an honest and relaxed interview and we get a thread about Smile's possible reception and Mike being an idiot!


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ziggy Stardust on May 19, 2012, 05:40:10 PM
"Surf's Up" is better than anything on Pet Sounds.

Actually that's an opinion, not a fact. Although Surf's Up is a fascinating piece, I think that some Pet Sounds stuff is better. I liked your last book though. :)

Mmmmh.. pretty sure Surf's Up is far more complex and deeper than anything from Pet Sounds.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: b00ts on May 19, 2012, 05:42:19 PM
"Surf's Up" is better than anything on Pet Sounds.

Actually that's an opinion, not a fact. Although Surf's Up is a fascinating piece, I think that some Pet Sounds stuff is better. I liked your last book though. :)

Mmmmh.. pretty sure Surf's Up is far more complex and deeper than anything from Pet Sounds.
It is probably deeper and more complex than anything The Beatles have done, and I am a huge Beatles fan.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Autotune on May 19, 2012, 05:45:41 PM
"Surf's Up" is better than anything on Pet Sounds.

Actually that's an opinion, not a fact. Although Surf's Up is a fascinating piece, I think that some Pet Sounds stuff is better. I liked your last book though. :)

Mmmmh.. pretty sure Surf's Up is far more complex and deeper than anything from Pet Sounds.

Musically, God Only Knows beats the crap out of most of Smile's songs taken as such.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Lowbacca on May 19, 2012, 06:10:22 PM
Why still no video...?  :-\


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Les P on May 19, 2012, 06:27:32 PM
Was it a full hour of The Beach Boys being interviewed?

Half an hour.

Re Mike Love and Smile:  Other than "Wonderful," Mike doesn't care for VDP's lyrics and never will.   So he will never have much positive to say about Smile, except for "Wonderful" and "GV" and maybe the tracks, but not the album as a whole.  Al scored a lot of points with me too with his defense of Smile/"Surf's Up."


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Heysaboda on May 19, 2012, 06:53:27 PM
If there is another thread for this or if it has been discussed elsewhere, please disregard - I just wanted to comment on how great it was to see all the guys together talking at the round table. That in itself was terrific, and made me very happy, not to mention the interview itself and more of the GV studio film from '66, Western and Columbia...

God Bless the Beach Boys and what they're doing, it just keeps rolling along and making people happy.

Charlie Rose Show on PBS, check it out unless this is old news by now... ;D

This was a FANTASTIC interview.  Lots of subjects discussed in a very relaxed format.  This is the BEST interview with the 5 BBs that we are likely to see!  A few really nice clips too!

What GF said times 10.000!


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: doinnothin on May 19, 2012, 06:56:44 PM
Heysaboda,

did you find it online somewhere, or just catch it live?


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Jim V. on May 19, 2012, 07:25:36 PM
This is an anticlimatic thread. We're having a blast with the reunion. The BBs give an honest and relaxed interview and we get a thread about Smile's possible reception and Mike being an idiot!

Oh sorry, I forget, since they are having a reunion, we're not allowed to be able to voice our complaints about things. Of course!


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: endofposts on May 19, 2012, 07:37:26 PM
I don't like "Smile" that much, either.  I used to, but with the passage of time, I like it less.  Mike is entitled to his opinion.  I'd rather listen to "Pet Sounds" any day over "Smile."  Even Elvis Costello has said that "Smile" reminds him of madness. There's a darkness in it musically that isn't in "Pet Sounds" and can make for uncomfortable listening that one has to really be in the mood to hear, whereas I could play "Pet Sounds" any day of the week.  I think that's part of why Mike doesn't like it, too, the darkness of the piece (which is more present in the music than the lyrics), and he's more or less said that over the years.  He's always seemed truly pained over what happened to Brian's mental health deterioration, which started around that period.  Mike blames the lyrics and music, other people blame Mike for reacting badly to it and "discouraging" Brian, even though Brian kept fitfully pulling the plug on "Smile" for months.  Brian's main problem with "Smile" had more to do with things like the "Fire" sessions and being weirded out by his own behavior and feelings,  than whatever Mike was grumbling about.  If Brian were so persuaded that Mike was right and he was going to scrap "Smile" just to please Mike, then why did he put out "Smiley Smile," which is a far weirder record than "Smile" and also uses some of the songs?  I don't think he cared that much about what Mike thought, it was his own trepidation that the music of "Smile" represented losing his mind, so to speak.  And also why he was so paranoid about releasing it for over 40 years.  Mike is a jerk about a lot of things, and he could have been more polite to Van Dyke, but he is who he is.  If it were all about jealousy about Van Dyke getting to collaborate instead of him (Mike), then why doesn't he have as much of a problem with the Asher-written "Pet Sounds"? 


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: SonoraDick on May 19, 2012, 08:00:10 PM
Here's something from the interview that hasn't been discussed. I'm going from memory here...

Charlie posed a question, referring to the new single, I believe...using words like "How did "TWGMTR" come about?", as if he expected a response that it was written in the back seat of the car while listening to the radio in five minutes, or that there was some other explanation nothing short of genius.

Brian's answer was concise... "Joe Thomas".

Somebody else then chimed in identifying Thomas as a producer or executive, but the story went no further.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Heysaboda on May 19, 2012, 08:19:33 PM
Heysaboda,

did you find it online somewhere, or just catch it live?

My wife recorded it on our DVR.  I haven't seen it on-line yet.

I am pretty sure that Charlie Rose archives all his shows on his web site.  I'll check around.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Heysaboda on May 19, 2012, 08:23:07 PM
Here's the Charlie Rose interview about the movie Beautiful Dreamer.

The new BB interview should be here in a few days.

http://www.charlierose.com/topic/music?keyword=Beach+Boys


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 19, 2012, 10:19:51 PM
I personally don't have a problem with Mike saying Dennis' comment was BS, even though I'm sure Dennis really meant it at the time he said it. I don't think the guys themselves are too worried about these things 45 years later  - it's us, the fans, that are hung up on it. My advice to anyone who still hates Mike is: don't go to the concerts, don't buy the album, you've had many years recently to see Brian or Al on their own without the Lovester. You can sit this one out, I'm sure it won't last long.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ziggy Stardust on May 20, 2012, 12:35:34 AM
When..will..someone...upload..it....


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Lowbacca on May 20, 2012, 03:23:43 AM
Might also 1st pop up on his official YouTube channel, keep an eye on that.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Autotune on May 20, 2012, 03:41:19 AM
This is an anticlimatic thread. We're having a blast with the reunion. The BBs give an honest and relaxed interview and we get a thread about Smile's possible reception and Mike being an idiot!

Oh sorry, I forget, since they are having a reunion, we're not allowed to be able to voice our complaints about things. Of course!

When I read all this nitpicking about Mike commenting a 45-year-old silly quote from Dennis, I'm suddenly reminded of 11:00 in this video  :)

http://wtso.net/movie/371-814_The_Itchy_amp_Scratchy_amp_Pooc.html


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: AndrewHickey on May 20, 2012, 06:21:44 AM
Was it a full hour of The Beach Boys being interviewed?

Half an hour.

Re Mike Love and Smile:  Other than "Wonderful," Mike doesn't care for VDP's lyrics and never will.   So he will never have much positive to say about Smile, except for "Wonderful" and "GV" and maybe the tracks, but not the album as a whole.  Al scored a lot of points with me too with his defense of Smile/"Surf's Up."

He's been pretty complimentary about Heroes & Villains, too. I think his dislike for Smile boils down to the lyrics on Cabinessence and Surf's Up. Apparently that dislike was so great that Van Dyke Parks to this day holds Mike solely responsible for the collapse of Smile, though.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ron on May 20, 2012, 07:37:09 AM
When..will..someone...upload..it....
The sad news is hardly ANYBODY watches Charlie Rose (He's generally more boring than even Larry King was)... so a few people caught it, but certainly nobody was prepared to watch it, hahaha. 

He'll have it on his site in a day or two I'm sure. 


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ron on May 20, 2012, 07:43:32 AM
I think Dennis's comment was overstated for effect... he really didn't think Smile made pet sounds sound like sh*t, he was just saying that Smile was even better than Pet Sounds... and overstated it for effect. 

So, the point being Dennis' statement shouldn't be taken as gospel, I doubt he meant it to be so profound as to be discussed 45 years later.

On the other side, Mike's comments about how he shouldn't have put down pet sounds, etc. is also not worthy of 45 years of discussion, it was just 2 seconds in Mike's life... nothing to judge by. 


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ziggy Stardust on May 20, 2012, 07:59:12 AM
I think Dennis's comment was overstated for effect... he really didn't think Smile made pet sounds sound like sh*t, he was just saying that Smile was even better than Pet Sounds... and overstated it for effect. 

So, the point being Dennis' statement shouldn't be taken as gospel, I doubt he meant it to be so profound as to be discussed 45 years later.

On the other side, Mike's comments about how he shouldn't have put down pet sounds, etc. is also not worthy of 45 years of discussion, it was just 2 seconds in Mike's life... nothing to judge by. 

As for the Dennis comment, it was indeed nothing important or to be taken seriously, just to describe how incredible SMiLE was gonna be and get people excited.

But as for the Mike Love comments, that's a whole other thing here..
he was criticizing Brian's masterplan, and what would become his masterpiece and make the band's music really respected and live on for decades, as art and not just dumb summer hits.. this is where it all started to go wrong, for many reasons, and Mike Love is definitely part of it
after that point in their career, it never was the same again ... so yeah, his comments, attitude and what happened during the Pet Sounds era and after (SMiLE) IS part of history of the band and definitely had an impact on Brian and what would come after..


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Autotune on May 20, 2012, 08:52:45 AM
Mike was never unsupportive of Pet Sounds.

During the Smile recording sessions he was a band member who had the right to voice his opinions, the exact same right fans on a forum claim for themselves.



Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Jon Stebbins on May 20, 2012, 09:07:44 AM
I personally don't have a problem with Mike saying Dennis' comment was BS, even though I'm sure Dennis really meant it at the time he said it. I don't think the guys themselves are too worried about these things 45 years later  - it's us, the fans, that are hung up on it. My advice to anyone who still hates Mike is: don't go to the concerts, don't buy the album, you've had many years recently to see Brian or Al on their own without the Lovester. You can sit this one out, I'm sure it won't last long.
It has nothing to do with hating Mike, although it nicely opens the door to people who have that proclivity. It has nothing to do with being "hung up" on anything. It a simple matter of pointing out that something was taken entirely out of context in such a shallow way by Mike. Simple. If Al can understand what Dennis meant by that quote then any of them can. It was a positive quote, a compliment to Brian, Dennis believed in Brian's direction and understood Smile was HUGE. To insinuate from that quote that Dennis didn't like, or was disrespecting Pet Sounds is juvenile. No need to hate anybody, no need to get hung up, just a fact. Mike made a gaffe.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Chris Brown on May 20, 2012, 09:18:14 AM
Mike was never unsupportive of Pet Sounds.

Brian and Tony Asher would beg to differ.

To be fair though, unlike Smile, I do think that Mike legitimately came to love and appreciate the project later on.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: b00ts on May 20, 2012, 09:20:53 AM
I think Dennis's comment was overstated for effect... he really didn't think Smile made pet sounds sound like sh*t, he was just saying that Smile was even better than Pet Sounds... and overstated it for effect. 

So, the point being Dennis' statement shouldn't be taken as gospel, I doubt he meant it to be so profound as to be discussed 45 years later.

On the other side, Mike's comments about how he shouldn't have put down pet sounds, etc. is also not worthy of 45 years of discussion, it was just 2 seconds in Mike's life... nothing to judge by. 

As for the Dennis comment, it was indeed nothing important or to be taken seriously, just to describe how incredible SMiLE was gonna be and get people excited.

But as for the Mike Love comments, that's a whole other thing here..
he was criticizing Brian's masterplan, and what would become his masterpiece and make the band's music really respected and live on for decades, as art and not just dumb summer hits.. this is where it all started to go wrong, for many reasons, and Mike Love is definitely part of it
after that point in their career, it never was the same again ... so yeah, his comments, attitude and what happened during the Pet Sounds era and after (SMiLE) IS part of history of the band and definitely had an impact on Brian and what would come after..
I think that right now, it is verboten around here to say this because people are worried that they will call off the reunion or something if we have an honest discussion about the history of the group. Now is not the time for dispassionate discourse about the group. In about six months, it will be OK to talk about both the positives and negatives again.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: drbeachboy on May 20, 2012, 09:32:07 AM
I think Dennis's comment was overstated for effect... he really didn't think Smile made pet sounds sound like sh*t, he was just saying that Smile was even better than Pet Sounds... and overstated it for effect. 

So, the point being Dennis' statement shouldn't be taken as gospel, I doubt he meant it to be so profound as to be discussed 45 years later.

On the other side, Mike's comments about how he shouldn't have put down pet sounds, etc. is also not worthy of 45 years of discussion, it was just 2 seconds in Mike's life... nothing to judge by. 

As for the Dennis comment, it was indeed nothing important or to be taken seriously, just to describe how incredible SMiLE was gonna be and get people excited.

But as for the Mike Love comments, that's a whole other thing here..
he was criticizing Brian's masterplan, and what would become his masterpiece and make the band's music really respected and live on for decades, as art and not just dumb summer hits.. this is where it all started to go wrong, for many reasons, and Mike Love is definitely part of it
after that point in their career, it never was the same again ... so yeah, his comments, attitude and what happened during the Pet Sounds era and after (SMiLE) IS part of history of the band and definitely had an impact on Brian and what would come after..
So, you think Brian's pre-Pet Sounds music is dumb? All that work to get to that artistic peak is just dumb summer hits, huh? What a thought process. ;)


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Autotune on May 20, 2012, 09:33:50 AM
Mike was never unsupportive of Pet Sounds.

Brian and Tony Asher would beg to differ.


Brian? When or where?


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Autotune on May 20, 2012, 09:38:48 AM
I think Dennis's comment was overstated for effect... he really didn't think Smile made pet sounds sound like sh*t, he was just saying that Smile was even better than Pet Sounds... and overstated it for effect. 

So, the point being Dennis' statement shouldn't be taken as gospel, I doubt he meant it to be so profound as to be discussed 45 years later.

On the other side, Mike's comments about how he shouldn't have put down pet sounds, etc. is also not worthy of 45 years of discussion, it was just 2 seconds in Mike's life... nothing to judge by. 

As for the Dennis comment, it was indeed nothing important or to be taken seriously, just to describe how incredible SMiLE was gonna be and get people excited.

But as for the Mike Love comments, that's a whole other thing here..
he was criticizing Brian's masterplan, and what would become his masterpiece and make the band's music really respected and live on for decades, as art and not just dumb summer hits.. this is where it all started to go wrong, for many reasons, and Mike Love is definitely part of it
after that point in their career, it never was the same again ... so yeah, his comments, attitude and what happened during the Pet Sounds era and after (SMiLE) IS part of history of the band and definitely had an impact on Brian and what would come after..
So, you think Brian's pre-Pet Sounds music is dumb? All that work to get to that artistic peak is just dumb summer hits, huh? What a thought process. ;)

In Stebbinsian acrimony, may I say that diminishing Brian's pre-Pet Sounds music as dumb summer hits is stupid. And so is looking at it as a path to Smile. That music stands on its own, as history has shown. And I'm out of this argument over minutia not even the principals are aware of.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: krabklaw on May 20, 2012, 09:43:40 AM
Here's something from the interview that hasn't been discussed. I'm going from memory here...

Charlie posed a question, referring to the new single, I believe...using words like "How did "TWGMTR" come about?", as if he expected a response that it was written in the back seat of the car while listening to the radio in five minutes, or that there was some other explanation nothing short of genius.

Brian's answer was concise... "Joe Thomas".

Somebody else then chimed in identifying Thomas as a producer or executive, but the story went no further.

Whooops! I guess the cat's out of the bag on that one.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: runnersdialzero on May 20, 2012, 09:55:47 AM
This is the problem - what if McCartney had been scared about how fans would react to the lyrics on Sgt Pepper? This attitude (in general, not just Mike's) is what held the Beach Boys back commercially post-Pet Sounds, which is ironic considering that Mike' concern was commerciality.


Like I said, I don't agree with 'im at all, but I do understand the thought process behind it a lot better after those videos. Like I said in the original post, though, he questioned them but still sang them all.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ron on May 20, 2012, 09:59:32 AM
Paul and John fought about lyrics and ideas and direction all the time, but both of them had the balls to stand by their  convictions. 


Brian didn't. 

It has nothing to do with Mike, if Mike hadn't have said it the fans would have blamed it on the record label (who he was in a lawsuit with shortly after, correct?).  So the whole argument that Mike blew ANYTHING up is flawed, because in life we have people critical of what we do all the time.  You have to be well balanced enough to deal with it, and that's true if you're a 5 year old in kindergarten and there's a mean person on the playground, or if you're a 25 year old musician.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: b00ts on May 20, 2012, 10:09:09 AM
Paul and John fought about lyrics and ideas and direction all the time, but both of them had the balls to stand by their  convictions. 


Brian didn't. 

It has nothing to do with Mike, if Mike hadn't have said it the fans would have blamed it on the record label (who he was in a lawsuit with shortly after, correct?).  So the whole argument that Mike blew ANYTHING up is flawed, because in life we have people critical of what we do all the time.  You have to be well balanced enough to deal with it, and that's true if you're a 5 year old in kindergarten and there's a mean person on the playground, or if you're a 25 year old musician.
Right, the buck stops with Brian ultimately. I was saying that at this late date, the rest of the group (especially Mike) could be more outwardly accepting of SMiLe, even if they don't like it. Kudos to Al for jumping in.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: runnersdialzero on May 20, 2012, 10:13:30 AM

Right, the buck stops with Brian ultimately. I was saying that at this late date, the rest of the group (especially Mike) could be more outwardly accepting of SMiLe, even if they don't like it. Kudos to Al for jumping in.

Also true. I was beaming when I read that. Beaming on the inside. With beams.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Wirestone on May 20, 2012, 10:26:46 AM
Here's something from the interview that hasn't been discussed. I'm going from memory here...

Charlie posed a question, referring to the new single, I believe...using words like "How did "TWGMTR" come about?", as if he expected a response that it was written in the back seat of the car while listening to the radio in five minutes, or that there was some other explanation nothing short of genius.

Brian's answer was concise... "Joe Thomas".

Somebody else then chimed in identifying Thomas as a producer or executive, but the story went no further.

Whooops! I guess the cat's out of the bag on that one.

Given that the authorship of the song was established a couple of months ago -- Peterik, Millas and Thomas did a demo in 98, and BW and Joe took it up again last year -- it's not really a surprise to anyone here.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: AndrewHickey on May 20, 2012, 10:35:12 AM
Right, the buck stops with Brian ultimately. I was saying that at this late date, the rest of the group (especially Mike) could be more outwardly accepting of SMiLe, even if they don't like it. Kudos to Al for jumping in.

And then the same people who criticise Mike for saying he doesn't like Smile would instead criticise him for saying he liked it, saying he was being dishonest and trying to rewrite history. If he doesn't like it, he doesn't like it.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: drbeachboy on May 20, 2012, 10:52:14 AM
I think Dennis's comment was overstated for effect... he really didn't think Smile made pet sounds sound like sh*t, he was just saying that Smile was even better than Pet Sounds... and overstated it for effect.  

So, the point being Dennis' statement shouldn't be taken as gospel, I doubt he meant it to be so profound as to be discussed 45 years later.

On the other side, Mike's comments about how he shouldn't have put down pet sounds, etc. is also not worthy of 45 years of discussion, it was just 2 seconds in Mike's life... nothing to judge by.  

As for the Dennis comment, it was indeed nothing important or to be taken seriously, just to describe how incredible SMiLE was gonna be and get people excited.

But as for the Mike Love comments, that's a whole other thing here..
he was criticizing Brian's masterplan, and what would become his masterpiece and make the band's music really respected and live on for decades, as art and not just dumb summer hits.. this is where it all started to go wrong, for many reasons, and Mike Love is definitely part of it
after that point in their career, it never was the same again ... so yeah, his comments, attitude and what happened during the Pet Sounds era and after (SMiLE) IS part of history of the band and definitely had an impact on Brian and what would come after..
So, you think Brian's pre-Pet Sounds music is dumb? All that work to get to that artistic peak is just dumb summer hits, huh? What a thought process. ;)

In Stebbinsian acrimony, may I say that diminishing Brian's pre-Pet Sounds music as dumb summer hits is stupid. And so is looking at it as a path to Smile. That music stands on its own, as history has shown. And I'm out of this argument over minutia not even the principals are aware of.
Whether you are out of the argument or not, of course everything that came before lead up to Smile. Just like the music on Today lead to the music on Pet Sounds. Most everything a person excels at comes from all that came before in that craft.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: endofposts on May 20, 2012, 10:57:15 AM
If you read quotes from the original pre-release articles on "Smile," Mike Love said a thing or two similar to Dennis Wilson, that "Smile" was going to be great.  What he said in private may have been something else, but they both were out there being pitchmen for the latest Beach Boys project of the time.  Dennis's quote was also said in that context, so that may not have been what he felt about "Smile" years later.  Who knows?

I don't believe if "Smile" had been released in 1967 it would have put the Beach Boys in an artsy direction that would have resulted in their being taken seriously and would have been a big success.  So saying it's all Mike's fault that the Beach Boys became a surf and car band aren't looking at the way fans back in the '60s saw things.  The FM radio hippie crowd had little use for a band named The Beach Boys and I don't think releasing Smile would have made any difference.  The LP's the Beach Boys released post-Smile were not car and surf albums and they still were rejected in the marketplace.  That argument only would make sense if they released albums that were like "Shut Down II" and not things like "Smiley Smile," "Wild Honey," "Sunflower," and "Hollland."  The BB were still trying to be arty with those later releases, and still failed.  The one thing that did make them huge with the public again was the "Endless Summer" greatest hits package (early surf and car songs).

The public rejected the single release  of "Heroes and Villains" and it did not chart high enough to please Brian, and that devastated him and caused him to pull the plug on "Smile" more than anything Mike said or did.  The public didn't make H & V Top 5 and Brian saw it as a sign that "Smile" would be a relative commercial failure, and he was probably right about that.  The public wasn't ready to hear "Smile" as that time, or at least wasn't ready to hear it from a band like the Beach Boys.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ziggy Stardust on May 20, 2012, 11:30:24 AM
I think Dennis's comment was overstated for effect... he really didn't think Smile made pet sounds sound like sh*t, he was just saying that Smile was even better than Pet Sounds... and overstated it for effect.  

So, the point being Dennis' statement shouldn't be taken as gospel, I doubt he meant it to be so profound as to be discussed 45 years later.

On the other side, Mike's comments about how he shouldn't have put down pet sounds, etc. is also not worthy of 45 years of discussion, it was just 2 seconds in Mike's life... nothing to judge by.  


As for the Dennis comment, it was indeed nothing important or to be taken seriously, just to describe how incredible SMiLE was gonna be and get people excited.

But as for the Mike Love comments, that's a whole other thing here..
he was criticizing Brian's masterplan, and what would become his masterpiece and make the band's music really respected and live on for decades, as art and not just dumb summer hits.. this is where it all started to go wrong, for many reasons, and Mike Love is definitely part of it
after that point in their career, it never was the same again ... so yeah, his comments, attitude and what happened during the Pet Sounds era and after (SMiLE) IS part of history of the band and definitely had an impact on Brian and what would come after..
So, you think Brian's pre-Pet Sounds music is dumb? All that work to get to that artistic peak is just dumb summer hits, huh? What a thought process. ;)

In Stebbinsian acrimony, may I say that diminishing Brian's pre-Pet Sounds music as dumb summer hits is stupid. And so is looking at it as a path to Smile. That music stands on its own, as history has shown. And I'm out of this argument over minutia not even the principals are aware of.

Sigh


For christ sake, is this a joke ? you know exactly what i meant, and that i wasn't diminishing Pre-Pet Sounds songwritting ...

What's that quote of Brian Wilson saying how much he loved making music about surf, cars girls and california, but that it was time to create something more mature and adult.. it really says it all and shows what i meant, i love Pre-Pet Sounds as much as the rest,
but if the band didn't let Brian Wilson explore his inspiration and stuck to the surf stuff... well, we wouldn't have had the greatest song ever that is God Only Knows and all the amazingly well written and so unique sounds and songs froim Pet Sounds, SMiLE and other great, deep stuff that came after.



...Dear lord, i can't believe i had to explain myself on that, is this elementary school...


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Rocker on May 20, 2012, 11:37:40 AM
Here's something from the interview that hasn't been discussed. I'm going from memory here...

Charlie posed a question, referring to the new single, I believe...using words like "How did "TWGMTR" come about?", as if he expected a response that it was written in the back seat of the car while listening to the radio in five minutes, or that there was some other explanation nothing short of genius.

Brian's answer was concise... "Joe Thomas".

Somebody else then chimed in identifying Thomas as a producer or executive, but the story went no further.

Whooops! I guess the cat's out of the bag on that one.

Given that the authorship of the song was established a couple of months ago -- Peterik, Millas and Thomas did a demo in 98, and BW and Joe took it up again last year -- it's not really a surprise to anyone here.


Yet in an interview posted in the Record Room, Brian mentioned that he and Joe started with TWGMTR in the late 90s.

My guess is that Brian and Joe did start work on some stuff but never finished it. Thomas then might've taken those snippets and finished/worked on with other collaborators because Brian had no interest. When this reunion came up Brian remembered the songs they started in the 90s (and I guess he was planning to give them to the Beah Boys before Carl died) and contact with Thomas was made who then made sure that he would be a part of it. Just my guess but imo it sounds plausible


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: mammy blue on May 20, 2012, 11:45:53 AM
Anyone, including Mike, who thinks Dennis was in any way derisive of Pet Sounds by making that statement about Smile is an idiot. As many people with functioning depth and awareness have pointed out, Dennis loved Pet Sounds, he was constantly touting its greatness, and to him Smile was so unbelievably fantastic it made one of the greatest records ever recorded pale in comparison. Dennis was on the front lines of the Smile cult...and only Al had the guts to point out that Dennis was right. "Surf's Up" is better than anything on Pet Sounds.

I personally found this exchange during the interview to be very revealing. Brian was unable or unwilling to personally defend Cabin Essence in 1966 when he was the undisputed leader at the top of his game, so he's certainly not going to step up to the plate now in 2012 with essentially the most conservative members of the group there in the room with him. Their laughter at the very idea that Smile surpasses Pet Sounds... I wonder if that stings Brian on any level. Well, it stings ME. In fact, it pisses me off! I know it's not au courant to criticize Mike these days, but I found it disingenuous of him to twist Dennis's enthusiastic contemporary comment regarding SMiLE (a regard that Mike and Bruce obviously don't share for the work, outside of the official press junkets that they were clearly obligated to participate in) into the suggestion that Dennis was disparaging Pet Sounds. That's slimy, especially when the person in question can't defend himself, and laughable, to anyone with even a passing knowledge of Beach Boys history and how things went down. I've been very positive regarding Mike during this tour and I think overall he's great... but I'll call this one like I see it.

Al Jardine... he may be a little late to the party, but my respect for the guy has increased exponentially in the last year. Apparently he actually meant what he was saying in the SMiLE youtube series... good for him! He defended VDP in the recent Mojo article too, and is the only Beach Boy on the stage who even mentions the huge SMiLE release that occurred just 6 short months ago. This all would be a lot harder to take without Al 's perspective and willingness to speak up. Since Carl died, he stopped toeing the line for Beach Boys INC and so now he tends to have the most interesting things to say of any of the surviving members of the band. Wherever Dennis is on a spiritual level, and Carl for that matter, I'm sure that Al's gesture was appreciated. Maybe even Brian appreciated it, but who the hell knows!?!?

I love all the Beach Boys and am greatly appreciative of this tour, but I needed to get this off my chest. Just one man's opinion.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: mammy blue on May 20, 2012, 11:48:37 AM
If you read quotes from the original pre-release articles on "Smile," Mike Love said a thing or two similar to Dennis Wilson, that "Smile" was going to be great.  What he said in private may have been something else, but they both were out there being pitchmen for the latest Beach Boys project of the time.  Dennis's quote was also said in that context, so that may not have been what he felt about "Smile" years later.  Who knows?

In the late 70s, Dennis was personally responsible for circulating the SMiLE tapes within the music industry. That makes him the original SMiLE freak. True story.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: endofposts on May 20, 2012, 12:22:54 PM
I dunno, you think Capitol Records had something to do with Brian not feeling very confident in "Smile," after they put him in his place by not promoting "Pet Sounds" and also criticizing the music on that record to his face?  The Beach Boys also sued Capitol around the time of "Smile," which put them in a bad place in the industry.  Mike also participated in "Smiley Smile," which not only included songs from "Smile," but required that he lay down on the ground and make animal noises and do vocals in an empty swimming pool during the sessions.  Which he did.  The Beach Boys also continued to release songs from "Smile" on other albums, including finishing "Surf's Up" and putting out on an album titled "Surf's Up."  Which, according to accounts of the time, greatly upset Brian, who did not want the song "Surf's Up" to get finished or released.  That wasn't Mike who objected most vociferously at that time, but Brian himself.  If Mike didn't like "Surf's Up" or "Cabinessence," he clearly did not have the power over the other members of the band to prevent their release on albums after "Smile," because the other band members went around him and did just that.  People need to put Mike's power in perspective.  He didn't have that much, at least not any more than Al or Carl or Dennis or Brian collectively or even individually.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: mammy blue on May 20, 2012, 12:33:04 PM
.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: mammy blue on May 20, 2012, 12:35:25 PM

I dunno, you think Capitol Records had something to do with Brian not feeling very confident in "Smile," after they put him in his place by not promoting "Pet Sounds" and also criticizing the music on that record to his face?  The Beach Boys also sued Capitol around the time of "Smile," which put them in a bad place in the industry.  Mike also participated in "Smiley Smile," which not only included songs from "Smile," but required that he lay down on the ground and make animal noises and do vocals in an empty swimming pool during the sessions.  Which he did.  The Beach Boys also continued to release songs from "Smile" on other albums, including finishing "Surf's Up" and putting out on an album titled "Surf's Up."  Which, according to accounts of the time, greatly upset Brian, who did not want the song "Surf's Up" to get finished or released.  That wasn't Mike who objected most vociferously at that time, but Brian himself.  If Mike didn't like "Surf's Up" or "Cabinessence," he clearly did not have the power over the other members of the band to prevent their release on albums after "Smile," because the other band members went around him and did just that.  People need to put Mike's power in perspective.  He didn't have that much, at least not any more than Al or Carl or Dennis or Brian collectively or even individually.

I wrote nothing about my theories regarding the demise of SMiLE. I did write that Brian seemed unable to personally defend the work with the Boys (capital B) in the room, then or now.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: TonyW on May 20, 2012, 12:37:49 PM
With all the bonheur over the 50 celebration it's great to see the Brianistas and the Kokomaoists at each others throats again.

The status quo has returned to the beach Boys world ...  :p


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Jon Stebbins on May 20, 2012, 12:45:48 PM
If you read quotes from the original pre-release articles on "Smile," Mike Love said a thing or two similar to Dennis Wilson, that "Smile" was going to be great.  What he said in private may have been something else, but they both were out there being pitchmen for the latest Beach Boys project of the time.  Dennis's quote was also said in that context, so that may not have been what he felt about "Smile" years later.  Who knows?

In the late 70s, Dennis was personally responsible for circulating the SMiLE tapes within the music industry. That makes him the original SMiLE freak. True story.
That's right...he leaked the material.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: SMiLE Brian on May 20, 2012, 12:47:38 PM
With all the bonheur over the 50 celebration it's great to see the Brianistas and the Kokomaoists at each others throats again.

The status quo has returned to the beach Boys world ...  :p
kokomaoists. :lol


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: mammy blue on May 20, 2012, 12:50:46 PM
With all the bonheur over the 50 celebration it's great to see the Brianistas and the Kokomaoists at each others throats again.

The status quo has returned to the beach Boys world ...  :p

It doesn't take a "Brianista", whatever that means (I think it suggests a certain mindless devotion to Brian which I don't think would be a fair description of myself) to be a little disappointed seeing the Beach Boys being so sneeringly dismissive of Smile in a national TV interview. Call me naive, or too sensitive, fine. I just don't know any other band of the Beach Boys' stature that appears to be so seemingly out of touch with its own creative legacy, and brazenly dismissive of it. It's staggering, actually. Anyway, God Bless Al Jardine, and I'll shut up about it now. Return to your regularly scheduled group hug.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Jon Stebbins on May 20, 2012, 12:52:09 PM

I dunno, you think Capitol Records had something to do with Brian not feeling very confident in "Smile," after they put him in his place by not promoting "Pet Sounds" and also criticizing the music on that record to his face?  The Beach Boys also sued Capitol around the time of "Smile," which put them in a bad place in the industry.  Mike also participated in "Smiley Smile," which not only included songs from "Smile," but required that he lay down on the ground and make animal noises and do vocals in an empty swimming pool during the sessions.  Which he did.  The Beach Boys also continued to release songs from "Smile" on other albums, including finishing "Surf's Up" and putting out on an album titled "Surf's Up."  Which, according to accounts of the time, greatly upset Brian, who did not want the song "Surf's Up" to get finished or released.  That wasn't Mike who objected most vociferously at that time, but Brian himself.  If Mike didn't like "Surf's Up" or "Cabinessence," he clearly did not have the power over the other members of the band to prevent their release on albums after "Smile," because the other band members went around him and did just that.  People need to put Mike's power in perspective.  He didn't have that much, at least not any more than Al or Carl or Dennis or Brian collectively or even individually.

I wrote nothing about my theories regarding the demise of SMiLE. I did write that Brian seemed unable to personally defend the work with the Boys (capital B) in the room, then or now.

Its called "Conflation"...and this thread is full of it.  The practice of treating two distinct concepts as if they were one...becoming a fusion or blurring of distinct subjects, which tends to obscure analysis.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on May 20, 2012, 01:01:51 PM
Mike was never unsupportive of Pet Sounds.

Brian and Tony Asher would beg to differ.


Brian? When or where?

In the A&E doc for one. Mike himself referred to part of the album as nauseating.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on May 20, 2012, 01:03:14 PM
Paul and John fought about lyrics and ideas and direction all the time, but both of them had the balls to stand by their  convictions. 


Brian didn't. 

The difference is that John and Paul were pretty close to being equals. Mike was in no position to comment with any real authority, yet acted as if he did. I wonder how many times you could find Ringo fighting Paul and John about their lyrics.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Lowbacca on May 20, 2012, 01:05:30 PM
Paul and John fought about lyrics and ideas and direction all the time, but both of them had the balls to stand by their  convictions. 


Brian didn't. 

The difference is that John and Paul were pretty close to being equals. Mike was in no position to comment with any real authority, yet acted as if he did. I wonder how many times you could find Ringo fighting Paul and John about their lyrics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68edB_Q1e4g

 ;D


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: endofposts on May 20, 2012, 01:17:34 PM
As the guy assigned as singer of many of the songs,  he was going to have the right to object to the lyrics.  He didn't feel comfortable singing them.  They didn't fit the image he felt the Beach Boys had, and it didn't fit the kind of guy he was (he's not that good of an actor that he can sing songs that don't fit his personality).  You can hate Mike all you want, but if he had to sing the lyrics, he was going to say something.  If Brian and the rest of the band didn't like it, they could have fired him.  They never did.  That was their problem.  They could have got Glen Campbell to replace Mike (he wasn't a hit recording artist at that point, and had singing talents and looks), they could have gotten any number of guys.  I'm not even sure why they insisted Mike sing the cornfield lyrics in Cabinessence if he didn't like them.  It wasn't even a baritone part.  Al could have sung those lines, Carl could have sung it, Dennis could have sung it, Bruce could have sung it. Some blame many things on Mike, but even if that's the case, why were the Beach Boys such nitwits that they kept him around?  They wanted it both ways, because he had a track record of singing on a lot of the hits.  But they stopped having hits so it didn't matter who was the lead singer.  Murry tried to get rid of him, but the band wouldn't let him. 


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: MBE on May 20, 2012, 01:33:04 PM
That Mike is obviously a huge fan of Brian's talent doesn't mean he's going to like all of his co-writers. Smile is not iconic for him like it is for us. It's different when it's part of your career and I've never met one musician that sees their music the same as the masses. Mike has said he likes Heroes and a few other things, but it's not his favorite period. I love Smile myself, but not as much as Pet Sounds, Today, Wild Honey, or Sunflower. Still in my top five but I prefer those other four albums personally. Does that mean I am a bad fan or writer because my tastes are a bit different than others? Again I want to stess I LOVE Smile, but it's not my favorite Beach Boys LP.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Rocker on May 20, 2012, 01:47:33 PM
Paul and John fought about lyrics and ideas and direction all the time, but both of them had the balls to stand by their  convictions. 


Brian didn't. 

The difference is that John and Paul were pretty close to being equals. Mike was in no position to comment with any real authority, yet acted as if he did. I wonder how many times you could find Ringo fighting Paul and John about their lyrics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68edB_Q1e4g

 ;D


That video popped into my mind too when I read rockandroll's message    :-D


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: b00ts on May 20, 2012, 02:20:00 PM
With all the bonheur over the 50 celebration it's great to see the Brianistas and the Kokomaoists at each others throats again.

The status quo has returned to the beach Boys world ...  :p

It doesn't take a "Brianista", whatever that means (I think it suggests a certain mindless devotion to Brian which I don't think would be a fair description of myself) to be a little disappointed seeing the Beach Boys being so sneeringly dismissive of Smile in a national TV interview. Call me naive, or too sensitive, fine. I just don't know any other band of the Beach Boys' stature that appears to be so seemingly out of touch with its own creative legacy, and brazenly dismissive of it. It's staggering, actually. Anyway, God Bless Al Jardine, and I'll shut up about it now. Return to your regularly scheduled group hug.
I agree. I choose to believe that it was a faux pas on Mike's part, and he probably didn't realize in the moment that Brian is very sensitive to this kind of dismissal of his work. It is important to remember, though, because from what I can tell, if the people around him don't like Brian's work, it affects his opinion of it (and himself).

This is a big factor in a lot of Beach Boys history, and it doesn't only have to do with Mike. It is about being sensitive to Brian's state of mind.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Amy B. on May 20, 2012, 02:20:22 PM
Right, the buck stops with Brian ultimately. I was saying that at this late date, the rest of the group (especially Mike) could be more outwardly accepting of SMiLe, even if they don't like it. Kudos to Al for jumping in.

And then the same people who criticise Mike for saying he doesn't like Smile would instead criticise him for saying he liked it, saying he was being dishonest and trying to rewrite history. If he doesn't like it, he doesn't like it.

I agree with the person who said Mike could show a bit more respect for what Brian went through with Smile, even if he doesn't like the music. Putting that music out was a huge accomplishment for Brian. Since the group was asked about it, showing respect would have been the gracious thing to do, in my opinion. He could even have said, "I don't like the lyrics, but it was a big project that was a struggle for Brian, and I'm happy for him that he released it." It doesn't mean I hate Mike. It just means I think he could be more gracious at times.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: bossaroo on May 20, 2012, 02:55:32 PM
still dying to see the Charlie Rose interview.


ultimately it was Brian who pulled the plug on SMiLE, but Mike's negative opinions of Brian's art certainly didn't help and he had been expressing those opinions for quite some time. Mike and Brian have been at odds over the musical direction of the band since at least Today! where side 2 is a lot like Pet Sounds. Brian stuck more with "the formula" when it came time to do Summer Days, and it's been said this was to appease Mike to some extent. then Brian created Pet Sounds, and somewhere he says that Mike wasn't into it but they made a deal that it would only be one album. I forget where that quote came from... some interview with Brian.

Brian and Mike were the big boys in the band up until at least '67 or so. Carl and Dennis did a lot of growing up between SMiLE and Surf's Up. also, the band's reputation and revenue was way down by 1971, so it's easy to see how Mike might have changed his mind about releasing SMiLE songs.

the fact that Mike (and Bruce?) are still dismissing SMiLE to any degree is really disappointing, but not really surprising. Mike had lots of good things to say about SMiLE when the box set was being promoted last year, but I don't know if he really meant everything he said. It would be great if he did, and if he could at least take some of the blame for SMiLE's derailment. Mike generally comes across as very gracious and speaks very highly of Cousin Brian. would an apology really be too much to ask for?

as bOOts said, at this stage in the game after all Brian's mental hardships which continue to this day, is it so hard for Mike to just suck it up and admit that SMiLE was an amazing piece of work? at least when he's in Brian's presence and being interviewed by a major talk show host like Charlie Rose. I haven't seen the show yet, but the fact that Mike (and Bruce) were laughing and dismissive of SMiLE and Al had to stand up for Brian shows how little has really changed in the Beach Boys dynamic 50 years down the line.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: I. Spaceman on May 20, 2012, 03:03:30 PM
  Mike and Brian have been at odds over the musical direction of the band since at least Today! where side 2 is a lot like Pet Sounds. 

You mean, the album side that Mike wrote the lyrics for?


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Cam Mott on May 20, 2012, 03:12:46 PM
I'm always kind of surprised when people think it is weird/wrong for vocalists to want to have some understanding of or simpatico with the words they are to stake their career on. The Boys may have had questions and even reservations but it is on record [literaly] that they did it Bri's way anyway. It's hard to blame others for a guy getting his way.

I still disagree that Brian cared much what anyone thought or wanted when it came to his music. He would listen but he did whatever he felt and did not do what others felt. IMO.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: bossaroo on May 20, 2012, 03:15:40 PM
Quote
You mean, the album side that Mike wrote the lyrics for?

yeah I'm aware of that, but Mike still likes to claim that Brian's stuff was too melancholy and Summer Days was a clear attempt to keep the music more upbeat and keep it "positive"


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: I. Spaceman on May 20, 2012, 03:20:39 PM
Quote
You mean, the album side that Mike wrote the lyrics for?

yeah I'm aware of that, but Mike still likes to claim that Brian's stuff was too melancholy and Summer Days was a clear attempt to keep the music more upbeat and keep it "positive"

No, Mike says he was the positive counterbalance to Mike's melancholy. Summer Days was the way it was because Brian had about a month to get an album together for a summer release deadline. And that album has a few "melancholy" songs on it anyway.
Step out of Domenic Priore's closet.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: bossaroo on May 20, 2012, 03:30:39 PM
Mike states outright in the Endless Harmony doc and elsewhere that "the reason the Beach Boys mean so much to so many people is because of the positivity. And that was ME!"

he has referred to Pet Sounds as "nauseating" and "Brian's ego music". Brian says that Mike didn't like Pet Sounds but they agreed it would be "just one album" of that type of material.

it's no secret that Mike prefers the upbeat lighter fare. he has made a career out of it and he has helped perpetuate the myth that the Beach Boys are nothing but.

step out of Mike's... hey that's not a closet!


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Shark on May 20, 2012, 03:36:08 PM
At last night's show, after they finished H&V, they got a huge ovation. Al said something like, "Now we're going to play the entire Smile album" in response to the crowd. He said it with a smirk on his face and looking at Brian. Brian had no reaction.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: endofposts on May 20, 2012, 03:39:22 PM
It amazes me that anyone who defends Mike is assumed to be a Mike-lover who likes to listen to "Kokomo" on endless loop.  If anyone has a patronizing view of Brian, it's people who think he cowers every time Mike or anyone else criticizes what he's done.  I used to think that way, but after seeing Brian over decades and ups and downs, it's clear that Brian has brass balls.  He wouldn't even bother to defend himself against what Mike would say because it doesn't matter to him.  Brian also has mixed feelings about "Smile" himself and it actually worked out better than any movie script that it became more legendary by not being released in the '60s and allowing Brian to have multiple victory laps when it was released as a solo album and then the Beach Boys boxed set.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Lowbacca on May 20, 2012, 03:57:24 PM
(http://blogs.laweekly.com/westcoastsound/wilson%20love.jpg)


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ziggy Stardust on May 20, 2012, 04:13:20 PM
That video seems to take for ever...


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Shady on May 20, 2012, 04:14:41 PM
Wow, pretty incredible no video has surfaced of this


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: I. Spaceman on May 20, 2012, 04:26:36 PM

step out of Mike's... hey that's not a closet!


Step into the oven. Your views are badly stated, and copied from others. Worthless.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on May 20, 2012, 04:41:19 PM

step out of Mike's... hey that's not a closet!


Step into the oven. Your views are badly stated, and copied from others. Worthless.

You mean he's directly and accurately quoting from primary sources rather than pretending like others have done on this thread that such quotes never existed in the name of "objectivity"?


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ziggy Stardust on May 20, 2012, 04:53:04 PM
Wow, pretty incredible no video has surfaced of this

Yeah, i thought we were in 2012 or something


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: endofposts on May 20, 2012, 05:08:03 PM
If only Brian had those big hit records with Bob Norberg and Gary Usher like some fans think he would have had, had Murry not discouraged the DJ's from playing those records.  Then there might be a big "Bob and Sheri" reunion instead of the Beach Boys and no one would have to deal with Mike Love.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Runaways on May 20, 2012, 06:18:26 PM
Wow, pretty incredible no video has surfaced of this

Yeah, i thought we were in 2012 or something

It's the weekend.  People aren't working, we probably won't see it till monday


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Cam Mott on May 20, 2012, 06:25:04 PM
If only Brian had those big hit records with Bob Norberg and Gary Usher like some fans think he would have had, had Murry not discouraged the DJ's from playing those records.  Then there might be a big "Bob and Sheri" reunion instead of the Beach Boys and no one would have to deal with Mike Love.

I find it hard to believe that Murry encouraged anyone to not enrich him. Not because he was greedy but because it was business regardless of who was on the copyright. This just seems like another opinion of yore that has become a fact. Like the other myth/"facts" excusing Brian's underperformance like Brian couldn't have a hit with any of his non-BBs productions because they weren't promoted, PS was a "failure" because of the release of Best Of etc.. Take it easy Cam.

The susposed "failures" aren't even real sometimes but still get a excuse.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: oldsurferdude on May 20, 2012, 07:03:54 PM
As the guy assigned as singer of many of the songs,  he was going to have the right to object to the lyrics.  He didn't feel comfortable singing them.  They didn't fit the image he felt the Beach Boys had, and it didn't fit the kind of guy he was (he's not that good of an actor that he can sing songs that don't fit his personality).  You can hate Mike all you want, but if he had to sing the lyrics, he was going to say something.  If Brian and the rest of the band didn't like it, they could have fired him.  They never did.  That was their problem.  They could have got Glen Campbell to replace Mike (he wasn't a hit recording artist at that point, and had singing talents and looks), they could have gotten any number of guys.  I'm not even sure why they insisted Mike sing the cornfield lyrics in Cabinessence if he didn't like them.  It wasn't even a baritone part.  Al could have sung those lines, Carl could have sung it, Dennis could have sung it, Bruce could have sung it. Some blame many things on Mike, but even if that's the case, why were the Beach Boys such nitwits that they kept him around?  They wanted it both ways, because he had a track record of singing on a lot of the hits.  But they stopped having hits so it didn't matter who was the lead singer.  Murry tried to get rid of him, but the band wouldn't let him. 
And there you have it, folks-what a shame. Great post in which I agree totally.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Cam Mott on May 20, 2012, 09:07:35 PM
Mike sang all of those leads because their producer, Brian, wanted him to; when Brian didn't want Mike to sing lead he had somebody else to do it.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Jim V. on May 20, 2012, 09:51:31 PM
Here's the thing. Yes, Mike probably does prefer to think of the band as a "fun in the sun" group. And that's his prerogative. Does he respect and praise Pet Sounds now? Yes? Did he like it all that much in the '60s? According to contemporary quotes from the '60s, maybe not that much. And even in quotes from the '90s. But he does sound pretty great on "That's Not Me" and "Here Today". So hey, whatever. I gotta think mostly, however, that the critical acclaim for Pet Sounds has really helped Mike figure out that being in the supportive camp isn't so much a bad thing. I think he purposely took that Dennis quote the wrong way, and honestly, any major fan of Brian Wilson would agree that SMiLE contained some of his best work ("Surf's Up", "Heroes And Villains", "Do You Like Worms", "Child Is Father Of The Man"). And I'd like to think that Mike is as much of a Brian fan as he claims, and I honestly think his beef with the album these days might be more with Van Dyke Parks as a person, just as Mr. Parks seems to really have a bad taste in his mouth regarding Dr. Love. I think Van Dyke went overboard about this tour, and I think Mike is similarly resentful about SMiLE because he doesn't wanna give Van Dyke credit. But in the process, I think it might hurt his cousin, who he cares so much about.

My problem with "Tea Bagger" Johnston is the view that the band was all about surf, cars, and girls, and that Pet Sounds and SMiLE were minor deviations. Read Bruce's essay in the SMiLE box. You'd think that right before SMiLE they did "Surfin' Safari" and right after they did "Catch a Wave", and that 1966/1967 were just out of the norm. However, the band didn't really do "formula" material from probably 1965 to 1977, besides "Do It Again" and "It's OK", which are backwards looking perhaps, but still great songs. So I don't know what they are talking about. I feel like Bruce saying Brian should've released SMiLE in '67 as a solo album is kind of a put down, and shows how out of touch some of the band was in '67 and still is now. Like Brian coulda done SMiLE as a solo, and the group coulda put out something more like Bob Sled & The Toboggans, perhaps. Right Bruce? I think Bruce is a major fan of Brian's, but he also has this odd resentment toward the man. And one can see it as early as the '70s if we trust in Jack Rieley's quotes. Some of his quotes from the '90s and on also demonstrate a bit of that too, almost as he looks down upon Brian, because of his trials and tribulations.



step out of Mike's... hey that's not a closet!


Step into the oven. Your views are badly stated, and copied from others. Worthless.

I'm assuming the oven thing is a holocaust joke. Kinda stupid and gross.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: MBE on May 20, 2012, 09:52:59 PM
It amazes me that anyone who defends Mike is assumed to be a Mike-lover who likes to listen to "Kokomo" on endless loop.  If anyone has a patronizing view of Brian, it's people who think he cowers every time Mike or anyone else criticizes what he's done.  I used to think that way, but after seeing Brian over decades and ups and downs, it's clear that Brian has brass balls.  He wouldn't even bother to defend himself against what Mike would say because it doesn't matter to him.  Brian also has mixed feelings about "Smile" himself and it actually worked out better than any movie script that it became more legendary by not being released in the '60s and allowing Brian to have multiple victory laps when it was released as a solo album and then the Beach Boys boxed set.

Good post


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Runaways on May 20, 2012, 11:17:10 PM
I think any member of the band has the right, to a degree, to question the music/lyrics, but not much. 

I'm assuming the oven thing is a holocaust joke. Kinda stupid and gross.

i don't think it was necessarily a holocaust joke


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: endofposts on May 20, 2012, 11:33:15 PM
My problem with "Tea Bagger" Johnston is the view that the band was all about surf, cars, and girls, and that Pet Sounds and SMiLE were minor deviations. Read Bruce's essay in the SMiLE box. You'd think that right before SMiLE they did "Surfin' Safari" and right after they did "Catch a Wave", and that 1966/1967 were just out of the norm. However, the band didn't really do "formula" material from probably 1965 to 1977, besides "Do It Again" and "It's OK", which are backwards looking perhaps, but still great songs. So I don't know what they are talking about. I feel like Bruce saying Brian should've released SMiLE in '67 as a solo album is kind of a put down, and shows how out of touch some of the band was in '67 and still is now. Like Brian coulda done SMiLE as a solo, and the group coulda put out something more like Bob Sled & The Toboggans, perhaps. Right Bruce? I think Bruce is a major fan of Brian's, but he also has this odd resentment toward the man. And one can see it as early as the '70s if we trust in Jack Rieley's quotes. Some of his quotes from the '90s and on also demonstrate a bit of that too, almost as he looks down upon Brian, because of his trials and tribulations.

I don't know if that's quite fair to Bruce.  He was the guy who brought "Pet Sounds" to England and played it for the Beatles.  He's always had the highest praise for it.  He also did an arrangement of "God Only Knows" for Jack Jones in recent years, which had to be a labor of love for Bruce, because it couldn't have paid much to do a nightclub arrangement.  Bruce didn't even join the band until most of the surf and car songs were behind them.  He was doing his own songs in that genre, but they were almost doing "Pet Sounds" by the time he joined.  Bruce was sympathetic towards Brian and his problems with Capitol Records in the US, short interview here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B18FBcqsZ4


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: hypehat on May 21, 2012, 12:07:26 AM

step out of Mike's... hey that's not a closet!


Step into the oven. Your views are badly stated, and copied from others. Worthless.

(http://cdn.styleforum.net/c/cc/350x271px-LL-cc721720_watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png)


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: runnersdialzero on May 21, 2012, 05:31:25 AM
Oh no. :'(


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Runaways on May 21, 2012, 06:32:19 AM

step out of Mike's... hey that's not a closet!


Step into the oven. Your views are badly stated, and copied from others. Worthless.

(http://cdn.styleforum.net/c/cc/350x271px-LL-cc721720_watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png)

 :lol


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Muntjac on May 21, 2012, 08:23:52 AM
It's finally up: http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/12364


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ziggy Stardust on May 21, 2012, 08:47:44 AM
feels good man, feels good.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Lowbacca on May 21, 2012, 08:55:30 AM
Paraphrasing:

Charlie Rose:  "What is closer to you? Exuberance or melancholy?"
Brian: "I don't see a difference."

That's brilliant.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: runnersdialzero on May 21, 2012, 08:59:02 AM
I'm surprised to see people had mullets back in 1962


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: hypehat on May 21, 2012, 09:03:34 AM
Why does this seem so awkward? It's like they're being interrogated.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Lowbacca on May 21, 2012, 09:07:27 AM
Why does this seem so awkward? It's like they're being interrogated.
I didn't see it that way. It's 5 guys together in a room who have a history of personal battles, stuff they probably don't want to talk about and there are various topics they have different opinions about. I think everybody's being cautious as to what they say and where the discussion goes. But apart from that.. a great, candid interview. Way less awkward than the average Brian solo interview. I enjoyed it very much.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: runnersdialzero on May 21, 2012, 09:14:13 AM
I don't know about awkward, but I'm gonna guess this took place pretty early on in the day. Everyone seems a bit tired, that's all.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: hypehat on May 21, 2012, 09:15:18 AM
Yeah, it got MUCH more relaxed - I just got that from the first five minutes, but they loosened up.


They all say they haven't heard the album?! Are they kidding? I really don't understand that, and makes me really, really wonder. They're not calling the shots on their own record!


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: runnersdialzero on May 21, 2012, 09:18:15 AM

They all say they haven't heard the album?! Are they kidding? I really don't understand that, and makes me really, really wonder. They're not calling the shots on their own record!

Welcome to 2012 :(


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: pixletwin on May 21, 2012, 09:18:25 AM
Awesome. Thanks for linking the interview. I loved the quote from Brian about Exuberance vs. Melancholy.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: hypehat on May 21, 2012, 09:23:41 AM

They all say they haven't heard the album?! Are they kidding? I really don't understand that, and makes me really, really wonder. They're not calling the shots on their own record!

Welcome to 2012 :(

 :'(


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Lowbacca on May 21, 2012, 09:25:32 AM
The 2012 live footage they showed might be a teaser as to how some of the material on the eventual tour DVD will look like.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: runnersdialzero on May 21, 2012, 09:33:16 AM
The 2012 live footage they showed might be a teaser as to how some of the material on the eventual tour DVD will look like.

I was wondering this, too. The vocals on the "That's Why God" live clip they played sounded a lot like the studio version vocals, but the instrumentation sounded different. Not accusing them of teh dreaded lip-syncing, I know they're not, but I'm wondering if it actually is the studio version vocals and the edit was made for some kind of release.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: runnersdialzero on May 21, 2012, 09:35:39 AM

They all say they haven't heard the album?! Are they kidding? I really don't understand that, and makes me really, really wonder. They're not calling the shots on their own record!

Welcome to 2012 :(

 :'(

True story. This is not the only recent example I can think of where an album is coming out and the people who perform on it have yet to see or hear it, sometimes not even knowing what songs are on it, until shortly before it's released. :(


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: runnersdialzero on May 21, 2012, 09:51:15 AM
The Smile segments seemed much less tense than a couple other folks let on. That's me, I guess, but the entire group laughed when the "makes Pet Sounds stink" quote was read to them. Al's interruption about "Surf's Up" (with Mike saying "Oh, it's beautiful!" when Al first starts in, too) was the only semi-serious part of it, but aside from that I got no tense vibes or anything. Just me, though.

Other thoughts: Al's "I'd like to do this every two years" thing gives me a bit of hope. For the guys to just call it a day and go back to their respective solo careers wouldn't be my ideal choice. I also would like to think this would prevent the "Al releases an album every 20 years, Mike releases a single every five years" thing and would keep everyone more active.

Also, the recordings sound pretty good, albeit obviously keeping in mind the quality here isn't the best. Still. Band sounds great, vocals sound great, mix sounds pretty good (even Jeff's voice blends a lot better when it's mixed at appropriate levels - who woulda thunk?), and eijtq39-h89-gu

Three posts in a row. I win at life.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on May 21, 2012, 09:58:42 AM

They all say they haven't heard the album?! Are they kidding? I really don't understand that, and makes me really, really wonder. They're not calling the shots on their own record!

Welcome to 2012 :(

 :'(

True story. This is not the only recent example I can think of where an album is coming out and the people who perform on it have yet to see or hear it, sometimes not even knowing what songs are on it, until shortly before it's released. :(

May I just say this to that:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,12286.msg269972.html#msg269972 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,12286.msg269972.html#msg269972)


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: runnersdialzero on May 21, 2012, 10:02:03 AM

May I just say this to that:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,12286.msg269972.html#msg269972 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,12286.msg269972.html#msg269972)

Obviously we don't know the full extent of what's going on, but about a week ago Brian was surprised when presented the album cover on TV, and the guys said here that they hadn't heard the finished album. It's probably nowhere near as dire a situation as I described in my last post, but it's still slightly odd for them to have not heard the finished album yet. "The label picks the songs" doesn't mean you have to remain clueless to these things, I'd hope.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Rocker on May 21, 2012, 10:09:33 AM
Here's something from the interview that hasn't been discussed. I'm going from memory here...

Charlie posed a question, referring to the new single, I believe...using words like "How did "TWGMTR" come about?", as if he expected a response that it was written in the back seat of the car while listening to the radio in five minutes, or that there was some other explanation nothing short of genius.

Brian's answer was concise... "Joe Thomas".



Now, after having seen it it doesn't sound that "bad" anymore. Rose asks Brian about where the title of the song came from after Mike was talking that it is a nice title. They were talking about the song title at that point


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: startBBtoday on May 21, 2012, 10:10:59 AM
Just finished watching, I didn't sense any awkwardness at all really. So many great personalities in that band. It's really fun to see them all talking and laughing together. You can tell how much they do admire Brian. Just from how much they'll laugh at what he says.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 21, 2012, 10:11:16 AM
First: Very, *very* happy to see it finally posted on Rose's website. It's about time! This is a must-see interview for those who missed it Friday night.

Second: Having a true group interview like this is not only rare, but it will bring up and bring out certain issues that maybe not all members agree - but in the case of this interview, it was handled well and it seemed to be relaxed overall. I did get the impression several times that the other members looked to Brian several times on several issues, and he still seemed to have that aura of leadership. The man didn't need to talk too much or say too many words, but if you noticed several times when he did speak everyone was paying attention. So it seemed to me.

Third: Not hearing an album in full after the final mixes have been delivered to whoever gets them at the record company or the mastering house is *not unusual*, in fact it is standard practice.

Please try not to read too much into this stuff: A record needs to be sent away for mastering, and unless the band or producer specifically requests that they be present as it is being prepared, the artist and producer(s) and everyone else will not hear the final result until it is fully mastered, then it gets approved again.

One of the reasons is that most people in the music business including artists and producers don't have a clue on how to master or what goes into the process when done at a professional level. It is a different scene than mixing. And a lot of faith and confidence is put into the mastering engineer...because at that point, often the artist is out of the nuts-and-bolts work being done.

So, essentially, it is nothing new (remember Mike Nesmith first hearing his own band's album More Of The Monkees when he walked into a record shop on tour somewhere in 1967?), and the post-production process being what it is would make it very logical that a band having finished a group of songs and mixed them would still not have heard the end result until everything including mastering has been done.

Again, great to see the Rose show has finally posted it for all to see.

Now...where is the footage and questions they edited out to make it 30 minutes long? I want *that* stuff... :)


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on May 21, 2012, 10:20:53 AM
Third: Not hearing an album in full after the final mixes have been delivered to whoever gets them at the record company or the mastering house is *not unusual*, in fact it is standard practice.

Yeah, but they said they hadn't even heard the album in sequence. Al suggested he wasn't even sure what was on the album and what wasn't.

Quote
So, essentially, it is nothing new (remember Mike Nesmith first hearing his own band's album More Of The Monkees when he walked into a record shop on tour somewhere in 1967?)

Yeah, but the reason we know that story is because it was used as an example to show how The Monkees were different because they initially had no control over what was being put out with their name on it.

There is, however, a pretty good example, such as the Capitol versions of Beatles records. But the band itself didn't like the fact that they had no control over the US releases. It's lucky for Capitol that it was difficult to really mangle and screw-up a collection of Beatles songs but it's also the height of absurdity that they fancied themselves "creative" enough to tinker with what was coming from England.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 21, 2012, 10:32:19 AM
Third: Not hearing an album in full after the final mixes have been delivered to whoever gets them at the record company or the mastering house is *not unusual*, in fact it is standard practice.

Yeah, but they said they hadn't even heard the album in sequence. Al suggested he wasn't even sure what was on the album and what wasn't.

Quote
So, essentially, it is nothing new (remember Mike Nesmith first hearing his own band's album More Of The Monkees when he walked into a record shop on tour somewhere in 1967?)

Yeah, but the reason we know that story is because it was used as an example to show how The Monkees were different because they initially had no control over what was being put out with their name on it.

There is, however, a pretty good example, such as the Capitol versions of Beatles records. But the band itself didn't like the fact that they had no control over the US releases. It's lucky for Capitol that it was difficult to really mangle and screw-up a collection of Beatles songs but it's also the height of absurdity that they fancied themselves "creative" enough to tinker with what was coming from England.

Yeah, but everything I said regarding the standard procedures of post-production is more of a possibility than the alternative theories being proposed.

And in the past when I have produced and worked on a few albums, in some cases the mastering of the tracks was done and the sequencing was still being changed and juggled around up to and including the stage of the process where the mastered tracks go to the duplication stage, and same with the artwork.

I used the Monkees example as an example, that's all - I won't debate the reasons why they did it.

How about the scene in "This Is Spinal Tap" when the band is soundchecking on a stage and the manager shows up with a case of their new album, "Smell The Glove", and it was the first any of them had seen the black cover?

It's *standard procedure* for this stuff to have happened at various times to various artists, it doesn't mean the band is any less responsible for the content.

Damn. :)



Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 21, 2012, 10:34:49 AM
First: Very, *very* happy to see it finally posted on Rose's website. It's about time! This is a must-see interview for those who missed it Friday night.

Second: Having a true group interview like this is not only rare, but it will bring up and bring out certain issues that maybe not all members agree - but in the case of this interview, it was handled well and it seemed to be relaxed overall. I did get the impression several times that the other members looked to Brian several times on several issues, and he still seemed to have that aura of leadership. The man didn't need to talk too much or say too many words, but if you noticed several times when he did speak everyone was paying attention. So it seemed to me.

Third: Not hearing an album in full after the final mixes have been delivered to whoever gets them at the record company or the mastering house is *not unusual*, in fact it is standard practice.

Please try not to read too much into this stuff: A record needs to be sent away for mastering, and unless the band or producer specifically requests that they be present as it is being prepared, the artist and producer(s) and everyone else will not hear the final result until it is fully mastered, then it gets approved again.[/size]

One of the reasons is that most people in the music business including artists and producers don't have a clue on how to master or what goes into the process when done at a professional level. It is a different scene than mixing. And a lot of faith and confidence is put into the mastering engineer...because at that point, often the artist is out of the nuts-and-bolts work being done.

So, essentially, it is nothing new (remember Mike Nesmith first hearing his own band's album More Of The Monkees when he walked into a record shop on tour somewhere in 1967?), and the post-production process being what it is would make it very logical that a band having finished a group of songs and mixed them would still not have heard the end result until everything including mastering has been done.

Again, great to see the Rose show has finally posted it for all to see.

Now...where is the footage and questions they edited out to make it 30 minutes long? I want *that* stuff... :)


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on May 21, 2012, 10:41:46 AM
Maybe I just have an idea that was concretized in my head because of certain bands whose standard procedure was to have full control over most aspects of their music - look, for example, at The Beatles who frequently chose not only the running order of the songs but also the photographer of the album, the art design, the packaging, etc. I think it's a shame that The Beach Boys don't have the kind of clout to have that kind of control over their product and instead have the kind of control wherein comparisons to the pre-fabricated, company-controlled Monkees and the entirely fictional group, Spinal Tap are in order.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: endofposts on May 21, 2012, 11:11:04 AM
The clips from the PBS special didn't look too promising.  Unless that's just some kind of rough overdub mix, it sounds like they're lip-syncing to pre-recorded tracks, as someone on this or another thread already mentioned.  People were complaining about Brian's early tour appearances sounding auto-tuned, but on "Sail On, Sailor," he sounded both auto-tuned and formally double-tracked with himself.  Like Joe Thomas pulled a Joe Thomas and made a live performance sound like some cold, processed studio performance.  Hopefully those clips don't represent what it will sound like (but I wouldn't count on it).


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Austin on May 21, 2012, 11:15:37 AM
- look, for example, at The Beatles who frequently chose not only the running order of the songs but also the photographer of the album, the art design, the packaging, etc. I think it's a shame that The Beach Boys don't have the kind of clout to have that kind of control over their product and instead have the kind of control wherein comparisons to the pre-fabricated, company-controlled Monkees and the entirely fictional group, Spinal Tap are in order.

I'll bet it's not having "the kind of clout" so much as simply not caring. How many 50 year old bands do you know who want an artistic say in every aspect of the process? If the Beach Boys really wanted significant input on their album art, they'd get it.

I know this board is catered to people who like details, but much of this thread is over-analyzing things. I'm with guitarfool: their comments about the album, including the sequencing, strike me as totally normal.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: NightHider on May 21, 2012, 11:25:22 AM
Anyone else notie Brian's facial reaction after speaking about missing Carl (7:30) was  strikingly similar to his facial reaction in the press conference addressing Dennis' death back in 1983 (1hr 37 min into An American Band documentary)?


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 21, 2012, 11:26:16 AM
- look, for example, at The Beatles who frequently chose not only the running order of the songs but also the photographer of the album, the art design, the packaging, etc. I think it's a shame that The Beach Boys don't have the kind of clout to have that kind of control over their product and instead have the kind of control wherein comparisons to the pre-fabricated, company-controlled Monkees and the entirely fictional group, Spinal Tap are in order.

I'll bet it's not having "the kind of clout" so much as simply not caring. How many 50 year old bands do you know who want an artistic say in every aspect of the process? If the Beach Boys really wanted significant input on their album art, they'd get it.

I know this board is catered to people who like details, but much of this thread is over-analyzing things. I'm with guitarfool: their comments about the album, including the sequencing, strike me as totally normal.

And the bottom line is, it is simply not standard procedure for the majority of bands to get that deeply involved in every facet of an album's production from concept to recording to release. And along the way, through the various steps, changes and tweaks are a fact of life, and in some cases a project which looked 99.9% ready to go to the duplication stage one step shy of distribution is changed at the last minute. And some of those changes are a case where the artist never sets foot in the mastering studio, the duplication house, or the place where the artwork is printed. Unless you're some control freak singer-songwriter or something. Period, end of story.

I'm not suggesting anything other than what I know and what I have experienced having dealt with this stuff before. But I would suggest before trying to suggest something other than what is probably happening, do some research on what mastering is and what the post-production process really means, because even artists who we worked with who were on top of things and had a game plan ready to go had little or no understanding of what mastering actually is or what it means in the process.

That's just how it is, but the fact that an artist says "I have not heard the final version" is indicative of nothing beyond the way the process works for every band, unless you're a control freak singer-songwriter who might want to spend a day at the pressing plant watching over the workers to make sure all the labels are applied correctly on his/her albums as they roll through the line. :-D



Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Rocker on May 21, 2012, 11:34:31 AM
The clips from the PBS special didn't look too promising.  Unless that's just some kind of rough overdub mix, it sounds like they're lip-syncing to pre-recorded tracks


I don't think it's pre-recorded but post. I could only hear it through my not-so-great computer boxes, so I don't know if it really sounds like it did to me but it seemed quite lifeless, flat and processed


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Heysaboda on May 21, 2012, 12:03:23 PM
BTW, in the interview w/ Charlie Rose, Brian was pressed to name his "favorite" Beach Boys album and he said Summer Days!  Then dismissed the question w/ a wave of his hand, to indicate there's too many!  Charming!

So there ya go!

 ;D


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on May 21, 2012, 12:20:38 PM
- look, for example, at The Beatles who frequently chose not only the running order of the songs but also the photographer of the album, the art design, the packaging, etc. I think it's a shame that The Beach Boys don't have the kind of clout to have that kind of control over their product and instead have the kind of control wherein comparisons to the pre-fabricated, company-controlled Monkees and the entirely fictional group, Spinal Tap are in order.

I'll bet it's not having "the kind of clout" so much as simply not caring. How many 50 year old bands do you know who want an artistic say in every aspect of the process? If the Beach Boys really wanted significant input on their album art, they'd get it.

I know this board is catered to people who like details, but much of this thread is over-analyzing things. I'm with guitarfool: their comments about the album, including the sequencing, strike me as totally normal.

And the bottom line is, it is simply not standard procedure for the majority of bands to get that deeply involved in every facet of an album's production from concept to recording to release. And along the way, through the various steps, changes and tweaks are a fact of life, and in some cases a project which looked 99.9% ready to go to the duplication stage one step shy of distribution is changed at the last minute. And some of those changes are a case where the artist never sets foot in the mastering studio, the duplication house, or the place where the artwork is printed. Unless you're some control freak singer-songwriter or something. Period, end of story.

I'm not suggesting anything other than what I know and what I have experienced having dealt with this stuff before. But I would suggest before trying to suggest something other than what is probably happening, do some research on what mastering is and what the post-production process really means, because even artists who we worked with who were on top of things and had a game plan ready to go had little or no understanding of what mastering actually is or what it means in the process.

That's just how it is, but the fact that an artist says "I have not heard the final version" is indicative of nothing beyond the way the process works for every band, unless you're a control freak singer-songwriter who might want to spend a day at the pressing plant watching over the workers to make sure all the labels are applied correctly on his/her albums as they roll through the line. :-D



I'm not talking about mastering. So far we've had a case of one member not knowing what songs were going to be on the album, and which ones weren't. We have another member not knowing what the cover looked like until it was sprung on him on a talk show - while we here on this site had already seen it. We have another member saying he doesn't really know what's on the album at all. So, the next time I talk to a musician I will ask him or her, "So, it must have been surprising when you found out what songs were on your album" since obviously it is standard procedure for an artist to know nothing about what their album looks like, sounds like, or indeed what is on it at all.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: hypehat on May 21, 2012, 12:29:55 PM
Maybe I just have an idea that was concretized in my head because of certain bands whose standard procedure was to have full control over most aspects of their music - look, for example, at The Beatles who frequently chose not only the running order of the songs but also the photographer of the album, the art design, the packaging, etc. I think it's a shame that The Beach Boys don't have the kind of clout to have that kind of control over their product and instead have the kind of control wherein comparisons to the pre-fabricated, company-controlled Monkees and the entirely fictional group, Spinal Tap are in order.

Yeah, that is depressing.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 21, 2012, 12:47:12 PM
- look, for example, at The Beatles who frequently chose not only the running order of the songs but also the photographer of the album, the art design, the packaging, etc. I think it's a shame that The Beach Boys don't have the kind of clout to have that kind of control over their product and instead have the kind of control wherein comparisons to the pre-fabricated, company-controlled Monkees and the entirely fictional group, Spinal Tap are in order.

I'll bet it's not having "the kind of clout" so much as simply not caring. How many 50 year old bands do you know who want an artistic say in every aspect of the process? If the Beach Boys really wanted significant input on their album art, they'd get it.

I know this board is catered to people who like details, but much of this thread is over-analyzing things. I'm with guitarfool: their comments about the album, including the sequencing, strike me as totally normal.

And the bottom line is, it is simply not standard procedure for the majority of bands to get that deeply involved in every facet of an album's production from concept to recording to release. And along the way, through the various steps, changes and tweaks are a fact of life, and in some cases a project which looked 99.9% ready to go to the duplication stage one step shy of distribution is changed at the last minute. And some of those changes are a case where the artist never sets foot in the mastering studio, the duplication house, or the place where the artwork is printed. Unless you're some control freak singer-songwriter or something. Period, end of story.

I'm not suggesting anything other than what I know and what I have experienced having dealt with this stuff before. But I would suggest before trying to suggest something other than what is probably happening, do some research on what mastering is and what the post-production process really means, because even artists who we worked with who were on top of things and had a game plan ready to go had little or no understanding of what mastering actually is or what it means in the process.

That's just how it is, but the fact that an artist says "I have not heard the final version" is indicative of nothing beyond the way the process works for every band, unless you're a control freak singer-songwriter who might want to spend a day at the pressing plant watching over the workers to make sure all the labels are applied correctly on his/her albums as they roll through the line. :-D



I'm not talking about mastering. So far we've had a case of one member not knowing what songs were going to be on the album, and which ones weren't. We have another member not knowing what the cover looked like until it was sprung on him on a talk show - while we here on this site had already seen it. We have another member saying he doesn't really know what's on the album at all. So, the next time I talk to a musician I will ask him or her, "So, it must have been surprising when you found out what songs were on your album" since obviously it is standard procedure for an artist to know nothing about what their album looks like, sounds like, or indeed what is on it at all.


You are talking to a musician right now in the form of me who got paid fairly well to record and co-produce (and mix) an album for at least two singer-songwriters, and granted they were not the Beach Boys and they were not a "band" per se, but when I heard the final version (the released version) of the album, it was in some cases so far removed from the mixes we had originally turned in, the sound was unrecognizable to the two people who spent hours on it and knew almost every note.

That's just one case of plans and everything else changing from completion of the mixes to what eventually shows up on an album. All the changes were made after the "final" mixes were turned in, paid for, and approved to the point where we as the production team, mixers, and performers assumed that was what would be sent off to post-production and what would be on the album(s).

I can only recommend having a bit of faith and taking someone's word for it that the information you're digesting about how little control the Beach Boys have in this new project is being taken several steps too far.

As far as the post-production, mastering, sequencing, etc way of doing things...perhaps it would be better to ask someone like a Linett, Desper, etc. or whoever else has a recognized name and experience with this particular band of artists through the decades and gauge their opinion of it.

I don't see anything suspicious when Brian said on Fallon he had not seen the final cover, or when Al said he had not heard the final version or whatever he said, because the process of actually releasing an album isn't quite what I think some are assuming it is. And honestly, it never has been.

I'm just saying the way it is described is nowhere near as nefarious or suspicious or even worthy of critique as some in this tread are trying to present it, and I hope they take a step back and get some more info before deciding the Beach Boys new album is some sort of a corporate ruse where the band were puppets or something. That's all...


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Heysaboda on May 21, 2012, 12:56:07 PM
Paraphrasing:

Charlie Rose:  "What is closer to you? Exuberance or melancholy?"
Brian: "I don't see a difference."

That's brilliant.

Brian is just effing brilliant, isn't he!!



Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: the professor on May 21, 2012, 12:59:54 PM
great interview--so real, so full, so human and humane--the real BB and their words and thought with a relatively scholarly interviewer; this is a dream come through to hear them not selling in a promo. video but a real talk among men; I am blown away--this is gold.

the PBS stuff:  can it be the fully evolved material that will be on TV next week?  I know it's not easy to record the BB, so how do you take the St. Augustine tapes and clean them up?  is all that clean up inherently wrong? what changes to the real performance would seem to be occuring here? can you sit down in the studio and sing over the live recording?  As long as it's the BB, I can accept a little autotune. I prefer the Fallon show and QVC, but I'l take a little tweaking. Let's stay on it; I want t DVD that I can watch for the next 40 years, til I die.

but again, th einterview--one of the best; they don't want to say much the BB, but they open up a bit here.

What about Al talking about being a hit man, coming in on parts?  Capital is in final charge?  I like that; it shows we are not an indie band! The label cares.  Dave says it's a movie soundtrack, which points to the reading I have been promoting about  the narrative consistency.

more later


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: runnersdialzero on May 21, 2012, 01:05:42 PM
Paraphrasing:

Charlie Rose:  "What is closer to you? Exuberance or melancholy?"
Brian: "I don't see a difference."

That's brilliant.

Brian is just effing brilliant, isn't he!!



Hate to be teh burster of bubblez, but Brian actually just responds with "Both." A bit different than answering "I don't see a difference."


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on May 21, 2012, 01:11:21 PM
Is anybody having problems with this interview playing? My computer is a piece pf crap and it's probably spyware, but the thing keeps pausing. I can't get it play through.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: runnersdialzero on May 21, 2012, 01:12:50 PM
My computer is a piece pf crap

^_^


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: endofposts on May 21, 2012, 01:19:41 PM
Is anybody having problems with this interview playing? My computer is a piece pf crap and it's probably spyware, but the thing keeps pausing. I can't get it play through.

Download it.  I use RealPlayer software to download things like YouTube and other streaming video.  Once you install it, it makes a little pop-up that you click on and it will download video and audio to your computer and you can play it through without buffering or other problems.  I realize people think RealPlayer is old-school, but they've improved it and it behaves well.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Landlocked on May 21, 2012, 01:35:19 PM
Paraphrasing:

Charlie Rose:  "What is closer to you? Exuberance or melancholy?"
Brian: "I don't see a difference."

That's brilliant.

Brian is just effing brilliant, isn't he!!



Hate to be teh burster of bubblez, but Brian actually just responds with "Both." A bit different than answering "I don't see a difference."

Wait a few more seconds. He continued on to say, "I can't tell the difference. I absolutely cannot tell the difference."

Kind of effed up when Mike rudely says, "Haha! Manic depressive!" after Brian says "Both!"


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ziggy Stardust on May 21, 2012, 01:48:39 PM
Excellent interview, the group seems to be optimistic!


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: SamMcK on May 21, 2012, 01:57:32 PM
You know what, all I can really say after watching that is that it makes me happy that Brian is alive and back with his band. :)




Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: STE on May 21, 2012, 01:58:41 PM


I absolutely loved it!!
I could watch something like this for hours and hours.




Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Rocker on May 21, 2012, 02:45:27 PM
can you sit down in the studio and sing over the live recording?  


Of course you can. That's standard practice for years. Remember that Chuck Berry concert movie "Hail, hail Rock'n'Roll" ? His voice was so shot on the performances that all of his lead vocals were re-recorded in the studio.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: endofposts on May 21, 2012, 02:48:13 PM
It's just odd if they're doing the re-recording, or at least starting to, in the middle of a tour.  Seems like it would be a bit stressful, though I guess they have no choice if the show is going to be on in June.  I'm not a fan of Joe Thomas's way of doing things if that's what's going on.  I've never watched any of his other PBS shows so I have no idea if that's a standard practice of his. 


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Zach95 on May 21, 2012, 03:32:59 PM
If Joe Thomas is really a TV guy, then I trust him.  I guess we'll just see. If he was as horrid as everyone here says he is, I'm sure we wouldn't be the only people saying it and he would have lost his reputation a long time ago.  So like I said, I have a certain amount of faith in the guy.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: runnersdialzero on May 21, 2012, 03:40:48 PM
Wait a few more seconds. He continued on to say, "I can't tell the difference. I absolutely cannot tell the difference."

Kind of effed up when Mike rudely says, "Haha! Manic depressive!" after Brian says "Both!"

Ah, I missed that - interesting quote.

can you sit down in the studio and sing over the live recording?  


Of course you can. That's standard practice for years. Remember that Chuck Berry concert movie "Hail, hail Rock'n'Roll" ? His voice was so shot on the performances that all of his lead vocals were re-recorded in the studio.

Not to mention several Brian Wilson live albums and DVDs.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: bossaroo on May 21, 2012, 04:26:03 PM
great interview. i loved it.

i didn't get the impression at all that Mike and Bruce were belittling or dismissing SMiLE. The Dennis quote seemed to be his way of dismissing Dennis more than anything. Brian seemed fairly loose and comfortable and opened up a bit. He did trot out a couple of his more predictable responses (on taking LSD and being inferior to Spector) but that's to be expected.

Charlie seems to be genuinely in awe of Brian and his abilities as do all the guys. It's great to see Brian soak some of that in.


I also like Al's idea of them touring every couple years or so and "getting their Tony Bennett on" as David said.  Al stated jokingly after a recent performance of 'Heroes and Villains' that they were going to perform the entire SMiLE album. A bit lofty perhaps, but it would be nice to see them go on performing and introducing more and more of the backlog into the repertiore.

Brian mentioned taking some time off, so maybe that's where he's at. He does seem like he's aged a lot in some ways, yet he's singing better than he has in 20 years if you ask me.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Tony S on May 21, 2012, 04:32:25 PM
Very much enjoyed the Charlie Rose interview.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: jeremylr on May 21, 2012, 04:54:57 PM
The Charlie Rose interview just came on again on Bloomberg Television [channel 353 on DirecTV]. Started around 10:20 PM Eastern tonight...


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: bossaroo on May 21, 2012, 06:11:07 PM
and how about all that Good Vibrations studio footage he showed at the end? that's the most we've seen yet!


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: oldsurferdude on May 21, 2012, 06:23:28 PM
Paraphrasing:

Charlie Rose:  "What is closer to you? Exuberance or melancholy?"
Brian: "I don't see a difference."

That's brilliant.

Brian is just effing brilliant, isn't he!!



Hate to be teh burster of bubblez, but Brian actually just responds with "Both." A bit different than answering "I don't see a difference."

Wait a few more seconds. He continued on to say, "I can't tell the difference. I absolutely cannot tell the difference."

Kind of effed up when Mike rudely says, "Haha! Manic depressive!" after Brian says "Both!"
Speaking of the Rudester, I noticed when he took breaths between sentences that he wheezed quite often, not to mention his voice sounds like he's got a good gallon of thick muck stuck inside his throat or maybe his esophagus.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ian on May 21, 2012, 06:37:24 PM
I enjoyed watching that-though it would be a way better interview if Charlie Rose actually knew more about them and their history-but they acquitted themselves well.  That clip at the end is cool-I hadn't seen all that extra footage of Brian producing Hal Blaine, etc


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Pretty Funky on May 21, 2012, 07:42:39 PM
Wow....Enjoyed that interview. A lot of questions relating to how they are together now and are they in a good place. Would make a good bonus to any reunion doco later (as was done with a 'Shawshank Redemption' project a few years ago from memory).

Also the first interview Mike didn't mention the 'Brian thought I sang good for a 70 year old' story. Phew!


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Ziggy Stardust on May 21, 2012, 08:12:33 PM
Brian mentioned taking some time off, so maybe that's where he's at. He does seem like he's aged a lot in some ways, yet he's singing better than he has in 20 years if you ask me.

yyyyyeaa, let's not exaggerate now.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Zach95 on May 21, 2012, 08:20:25 PM
Brian mentioned taking some time off, so maybe that's where he's at. He does seem like he's aged a lot in some ways, yet he's singing better than he has in 20 years if you ask me.

yyyyyeaa, let's not exaggerate now.

I don't think it's an exaggeration. Have you listened to the Disney album? Or Gershwin? His vocal performances are incredible, and I don't think bossaroo's comment was too far off.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Jim V. on May 21, 2012, 08:32:09 PM
Yeah, I'm not a BW apologist, at all, but show me a better vocal that he's done than "Summer's Gone" in the past....hmm....40 years! He really does sound beautiful in the right circumstances these days.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: bossaroo on May 21, 2012, 09:07:41 PM
yeah he's singing with a gentleness and sweetness that we haven't heard in quite some time. you hear it a lot on the Gershwin album, on God Only Knows from the QVC taping, etc. I can't think of anything since the early 90s or even the 80s that compares.

he just seems to care more about his delivery than he has in ages.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Runaways on May 21, 2012, 09:10:12 PM
i think what happened in BW88 is that he closed his air pipe when he sang, and held his breath.  Whenever I do that, i feel like my voice starts sounding gritty and shouty like his was.  I think he just learned how to breathe and sing again in the past few years.  Let the air out, makes his voice softer and sweeter again


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Amy B. on May 21, 2012, 09:23:35 PM
Something I really like about their rapport is that when Brian says something that may or may not be BS (like writing a song without a piano only once in his life), the others aren't afraid to say, "Oh come on," or "Baloney," and sometimes Brian will tell the truth at that point. There aren't many others in the world who will call Brian on his BS.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Jaspy on May 21, 2012, 11:00:23 PM
The interview is nice, but the highlight for me is without a doubt the 1966 studio footage. So great to see Brian in action back in the day,  with the BB and the musicians, after hearing hours and hours of great session audio. Thank God that someone was rolling a camera and captured some glimpses of this creative peak time.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Aegir on May 21, 2012, 11:10:54 PM
I agree that the GV session video is the greatest part of this.

the interview is funny if you imagine that everyone is really stoned.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: the professor on May 21, 2012, 11:24:42 PM
Lawbacca identified the high point for me: Brian asserting that exuberance and melancholy are indistinguishable. I consider this one of the most important axioms ever articulated about the BB and something at the core of my late analysis of the album in response to the (in part actualized and in part anticipated) critical reaction prioritizing Brian's melancholy.

I liked to footage, but it's the here and now of love and unity that is moving me. I lived on footage (old or new) for too long. Let it go lads; we are just born baby chicks, remember?

Also, the lost BB is not lost more; he is getting plenty of press, critical acclaim, and interview time; he speaks well and meaningfully and compels our thanks and respect with his gentle mien.

Finally, the PBS footage; it is the BB for sure, but it does not sound like the youtube footage from that or any show. So it plays a bit more like a music video than a raw live show.  I am not bothered by any studio magic nor overdubs (when could they have done that?) by the men themselves.

If chuck berry had to do it with Hail Hail rock and roll, it's OK with me.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Micha on May 22, 2012, 02:49:39 AM
"Surf's Up" is better than anything on Pet Sounds.

Actually that's an opinion, not a fact. Although Surf's Up is a fascinating piece, I think that some Pet Sounds stuff is better. I liked your last book though. :)

Mmmmh.. pretty sure Surf's Up is far more complex and deeper than anything from Pet Sounds.

Definitely more complex in terms of structure and melodies, and deeper lyrically in many aspects, I agree with you there. :) The arrangement for the second movement though is less complex than anything on Pet Sounds, but that may be because it wasn't finished in its time.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on May 22, 2012, 02:38:09 PM
Anyone, including Mike, who thinks Dennis was in any way derisive of Pet Sounds by making that statement about Smile is an idiot. As many people with functioning depth and awareness have pointed out, Dennis loved Pet Sounds, he was constantly touting its greatness, and to him Smile was so unbelievably fantastic it made one of the greatest records ever recorded pale in comparison. Dennis was on the front lines of the Smile cult...and only Al had the guts to point out that Dennis was right. "Surf's Up" is better than anything on Pet Sounds.

I personally found this exchange during the interview to be very revealing. Brian was unable or unwilling to personally defend Cabin Essence in 1966 when he was the undisputed leader at the top of his game, so he's certainly not going to step up to the plate now in 2012 with essentially the most conservative members of the group there in the room with him. Their laughter at the very idea that Smile surpasses Pet Sounds... I wonder if that stings Brian on any level. Well, it stings ME. In fact, it pisses me off! I know it's not au courant to criticize Mike these days, but I found it disingenuous of him to twist Dennis's enthusiastic contemporary comment regarding SMiLE (a regard that Mike and Bruce obviously don't share for the work, outside of the official press junkets that they were clearly obligated to participate in) into the suggestion that Dennis was disparaging Pet Sounds. That's slimy, especially when the person in question can't defend himself, and laughable, to anyone with even a passing knowledge of Beach Boys history and how things went down. I've been very positive regarding Mike during this tour and I think overall he's great... but I'll call this one like I see it.

Al Jardine... he may be a little late to the party, but my respect for the guy has increased exponentially in the last year. Apparently he actually meant what he was saying in the SMiLE youtube series... good for him! He defended VDP in the recent Mojo article too, and is the only Beach Boy on the stage who even mentions the huge SMiLE release that occurred just 6 short months ago. This all would be a lot harder to take without Al 's perspective and willingness to speak up. Since Carl died, he stopped toeing the line for Beach Boys INC and so now he tends to have the most interesting things to say of any of the surviving members of the band. Wherever Dennis is on a spiritual level, and Carl for that matter, I'm sure that Al's gesture was appreciated. Maybe even Brian appreciated it, but who the hell knows!?!?

I love all the Beach Boys and am greatly appreciative of this tour, but I needed to get this off my chest. Just one man's opinion.

Nicely said. ;)


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: HeyJude on May 22, 2012, 03:46:16 PM
The Beach Boys, individually and collectively, have often if not usually given pretty awkward interviews. I've seen a few times where individual members were able to do substantive interviews in print. But once it hits TV, either live or "live to tape", (or even edited!), I go into these things expecting it to be awkward.

This interview wasn't too bad considering all five of them where there and the potential awkwardness was multiplied.

Charlie Rose is a bit weird in terms of rating him as an interviewer. He certainly goes well beyond the vapid interviews you see on most morning or late night shows. But his style of questioning is not one that matches up well with the BB's style of professional awkwardness. He mixes questions that are too open-ended with random specific questions that kind of miss the point, as if he did 30 minutes of wiki research and pulled some interesting quotes to just throw at the guys.

Brian is a difficult interview in most circumstances. If you give him leading, "yes or no" questions, that's all you'll get. If you pitch him weird, vague, open-ended questions like a few or Rose's, you're usually not going to get a thorough answer.  You can tell all four of the other guys were doing their best to sort of jump in to help steer or interpret or clarify a few of Brian's answers.

The Dennis "Smile" comment was no big deal. They were just trying to awkwardly not agree with Dennis. Al poignantly supported Dennis' comment.



Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: HeyJude on May 22, 2012, 03:55:24 PM
I'm also finding in interesting that David Marks has in several interviews been the one to point out that the band is moving past the lawyers, lawsuits, accountants, etc. While his excellent book with Jon Stebbins outlines how his royalties have worked over the years with the BB's, I would have to guess he has been the least impacted by all the legal actions and acrimony within the band throughout the years. It's just interesting to hear him make that point. I can't tell if he's saying it because he's the only one willing to step up and make that point, or if it's simply easier for him to say it since the other guys have had to plow through more of that inner-band turmoil and aren't as quick to at least vocally say it's all water under the bridge.

I'm still laughing about the awkward "Al Jardine Family & Friends" reference during the QVC show. I have to say, I never thought I'd see someone reference that band's name while standing next to Mike Love.  :lol


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 23, 2012, 07:43:01 AM
Now that the interview has been pretty much available to those who want to see it, I was wondering if any knew why it wasn't announced officially as other appearances and interviews had been in the the recent past.

I don't recall seeing anything about it on the Facebook pages or bulletins, I don't recall anyone else mentioning it or advertising that it would be on at a certain time as happened with Fallon and others, and the most shocking thing was logging on here after catching it *totally by accident* that Friday night and hardly anyone had seen it where i thought it would have been a hot topic by the time I posted.

Overall it was a great interview, there was obvious "official" BB's-sanctioned video work done in the form of the 1966 studio footage and whatnot, and I really didn't see anything beyond what we saw play out around that table, except a few questions by Charlie Rose where he should have been more prepared as a veteran news-reader.

The silence around this specific appearance was deafening, I'm wondering why.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: seltaeb1012002 on May 23, 2012, 07:55:01 AM
I took the laughter at Dennis' comment more like... they were picturing a young Dennis saying what is actually a pretty funny comment, especially using the word "Stink". It probably took them all back to the early days when he was still around and able to be a young punk as he displays in that quote. I highly doubt they were seriously laughing at the idea of Smile having the potential to be better than Pet Sounds. As soon as Al responded seriously, Mike agreed in a split second. The laughter was probably more about the delivery than the idea itself.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: pixletwin on May 23, 2012, 07:58:11 AM
I took it as them laughing at the hyperbole Dennis was using. It seemed like an affectionate "that's so Dennis" kind of laugh.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on May 23, 2012, 08:13:41 AM
Overall it was a great interview, there was obvious "official" BB's-sanctioned video work done in the form of the 1966 studio footage and whatnot, and I really didn't see anything beyond what we saw play out around that table, except a few questions by Charlie Rose where he should have been more prepared as a veteran news-reader.

Really. It amazes me what Charlie Rose gets away with sometimes. Recently, he had on Slavoj Zizek, a major critical thinker, and said something to the effect of, "Don't you think the Arab Spring protests were free of ideology." Zizek (a man who believes that we are never free of ideology under any circumstance) halted and said, "Well, what do you mean by ideology?" to which Rose replied, "Well, you tell me!" What? You tell me? I mean, yes, he should be asking Zizek that but not to cover-up the fact that he clearly said something that he himself didn't even understand.

Yet, Rose is one of the few people on tv today who still stands by that "gentle art of conversation" shtick that has really gone by the wayside, and for that, he can still be interesting even when he talks about things he knows little about as if he knew everything about them.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 23, 2012, 08:16:01 AM
It felt more like a simple misunderstanding of a quote that fans on this board may actually be more familiar with through LLVS and other sources than the band members themselves, which I think is the case with a lot of the trivia and minute details. It seemed like the quote was read and taken the wrong way. It was after all one sentence in one magazine published 45 years ago.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Runaways on May 23, 2012, 08:38:10 AM
actually i think the guys took it as "that's something dennis would say, but you don't need to put down pet sounds to say it!"

as in, they know Dennis didn't think Pet Sounds was a bad album, but in the quote he put "pets sounds stink" together, and thaat wasn't necessary. 


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on May 23, 2012, 08:45:23 AM
actually i think the guys took it as "that's something dennis would say, but you don't need to put down pet sounds to say it!"

as in, they know Dennis didn't think Pet Sounds was a bad album, but in the quote he put "pets sounds stink" together, and thaat wasn't necessary. 

You'd figure though that a lyricist like Mike Love would understand that things are phrased in particular ways for effect.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Jon Stebbins on May 23, 2012, 09:05:28 AM
actually i think the guys took it as "that's something dennis would say, but you don't need to put down pet sounds to say it!"

as in, they know Dennis didn't think Pet Sounds was a bad album, but in the quote he put "pets sounds stink" together, and thaat wasn't necessary. 

You'd figure though that a lyricist like Mike Love would understand that things are phrased in particular ways for effect.
You'd also figure someone of average intelligence would immediately see beyond the literal interpretation of the quote, as Al did.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on May 23, 2012, 09:17:28 AM
actually i think the guys took it as "that's something dennis would say, but you don't need to put down pet sounds to say it!"

as in, they know Dennis didn't think Pet Sounds was a bad album, but in the quote he put "pets sounds stink" together, and thaat wasn't necessary.  

You'd figure though that a lyricist like Mike Love would understand that things are phrased in particular ways for effect.
You'd also figure someone of average intelligence would immediately see beyond the literal interpretation of the quote, as Al did.

Exactly. I mean, it's a pretty familiar mode of expression, isn't it? "Genghis Khan made Napolean look like Little Bo Peep." I mean, would somebody stop and say, "Hey, wait a minute, Napolean wasn't like Little Bo Peep at all."?

In fairness to Al though he was the only one to give Dennis some credit on the quote. Maybe halfway through the discussion on the matter Al realized what he meant. I can't believe there could be any real debate on the quote though let alone most of them completely misunderstanding it as they appeared to.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Jon Stebbins on May 23, 2012, 09:36:05 AM
actually i think the guys took it as "that's something dennis would say, but you don't need to put down pet sounds to say it!"

as in, they know Dennis didn't think Pet Sounds was a bad album, but in the quote he put "pets sounds stink" together, and thaat wasn't necessary.  

You'd figure though that a lyricist like Mike Love would understand that things are phrased in particular ways for effect.
You'd also figure someone of average intelligence would immediately see beyond the literal interpretation of the quote, as Al did.

Exactly. I mean, it's a pretty familiar mode of expression, isn't it? "Genghis Khan made Napolean look like Little Bo Peep." I mean, would somebody stop and say, "Hey, wait a minute, Napolean wasn't like Little Bo Peep at all."?

In fairness to Al though he was the only one to give Dennis some credit on the quote. Maybe halfway through the discussion on the matter Al realized what he meant. I can't believe there could be any real debate on the quote though let alone most of them completely misunderstanding it as they appeared to.
Like I said...as Al did. He got it right.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: endofposts on May 23, 2012, 10:29:45 AM
One thing Mike Love and Dennis Wilson did have in common is a reputed history of hitting women.  Something that will always prevent me from putting Dennis Wilson on the pedestal that some of the male fans have him.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Runaways on May 23, 2012, 10:59:42 AM
i think the guys were just saying you don't have to put down pet sounds to say smile is great, even though they know dennis thought pet sounds was awesome. 

One thing Mike Love and Dennis Wilson did have in common is a reputed history of hitting women.  Something that will always prevent me from putting Dennis Wilson on the pedestal that some of the male fans have him.

why just male fans?


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Jon Stebbins on May 23, 2012, 11:02:51 AM
One thing Mike Love and Dennis Wilson did have in common is a reputed history of hitting women.  Something that will always prevent me from putting Dennis Wilson on the pedestal that some of the male fans have him.
How about offering Heroin to your adolescent daughter? Does that qualify as something to keep a dad off a pedestal?


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on May 23, 2012, 11:14:46 AM
i think the guys were just saying you don't have to put down pet sounds to say smile is great

Again, though, are they really not familiar with that technique of expression? If they were, they'd understand that there is absolutely no put down in that statement whatsoever.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on May 23, 2012, 11:32:44 AM
The Beach Boys are not unintelligent people. But, they have shown time after time after time, that they sometimes lack the ability to hear the question, process the question, and give an intelligent answer. You would think that after 50 years they would have acquired that skill, but they haven't. This was just another example of blurting out something - a comment, a quip, a joke, a line, a reaction - without thinking. You never know if they mean what they say. Sometimes I don't know if THEY know if they mean what they say! Most Beach Boys' interviews are forgettable, but you can always count on a few statements that make you go "Huh?"

BTW, I have still not seen this interview. My computer won't play the feed. If anyone can download it to a Windows Media Player or Real Player format, and PM it to me, I would greatly appreciate it. EDIT: I got it now!


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Runaways on May 23, 2012, 11:35:55 AM
i think the guys were just saying you don't have to put down pet sounds to say smile is great

Again, though, are they really not familiar with that technique of expression? If they were, they'd understand that there is absolutely no put down in that statement whatsoever.

well again, i think just saying that phrase together is enough to be unnecessary to them.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: endofposts on May 23, 2012, 11:42:03 AM
One thing Mike Love and Dennis Wilson did have in common is a reputed history of hitting women.  Something that will always prevent me from putting Dennis Wilson on the pedestal that some of the male fans have him.
How about offering Heroin to your adolescent daughter? Does that qualify as something to keep a dad off a pedestal?

Brian was off his rocker.  Neither Dennis or Mike has ever been admitted to a mental institution.  Okay, Mike was, once.  But they both had a history of being abusive towards women at times in their lives.  Mike has also never had two books and counting written on him, or a movie.  Unless you count "American Family," where he's shown not being too nice to one of his wives, if not hitting her onscreen.

I find it curious that no one has ever, yet, written a book about Carl.  Carl was mostly reputed to be pretty nice.  I guess nice guys are boring and no one wants to write books about those types of guys.  I don't see an Al Jardine bio in the future, either.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 24, 2012, 12:27:09 AM
I'd read a book on Carl or Al.  I think a Carl bio is long overdue. And as far as I know, Bruce has never hit his wife, either.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: MBE on May 24, 2012, 12:39:48 AM
One thing Mike Love and Dennis Wilson did have in common is a reputed history of hitting women.  Something that will always prevent me from putting Dennis Wilson on the pedestal that some of the male fans have him.
How about offering Heroin to your adolescent daughter? Does that qualify as something to keep a dad off a pedestal?

Brian was off his rocker.  Neither Dennis or Mike has ever been admitted to a mental institution.  Okay, Mike was, once.  But they both had a history of being abusive towards women at times in their lives.  Mike has also never had two books and counting written on him, or a movie.  Unless you count "American Family," where he's shown not being too nice to one of his wives, if not hitting her onscreen.

I find it curious that no one has ever, yet, written a book about Carl.  Carl was mostly reputed to be pretty nice.  I guess nice guys are boring and no one wants to write books about those types of guys.  I don't see an Al Jardine bio in the future, either.
I like Phil Spector's records and Ike Turner's. Trust the art not the artist. Plus who are we to judge what happened or didn't. Dennis and Mike were never asked to refute the claims and we weren't there. It's not our business anyhow. I don't think people should be violent, but it's a fact of life. Bob Dylan, John Lennon, Ringo Starr, Jerry Lee Lewis, Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Brian Jones, Keith Moon, James Brown, Jermaine Jackson, Steve Marriott, have all been accused of this. John and Ringo even talked regretfully of it in public. If I applied my personal morals to every person I enjoyed creatively I wouldn't have too many records or films.


Title: Re: Group Interview On PBS - Charlie Rose Show Tonight
Post by: MBE on May 24, 2012, 12:44:27 AM
One last thing is that Carl, Dennis, and Mike also came from abusive homes. All of them were effected mentally by this. Carl and Dennis both went through periods where their music and performances were hurt by drugs. Mike's breakdown was somewhat public as well. Brian is an extreme case, but why let him off if you don't let them off. Besides none of them were bastions when it came to fidelity back in the sixties.