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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: desmondo on May 11, 2012, 04:41:06 AM



Title: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: desmondo on May 11, 2012, 04:41:06 AM
There is definitely some live quantization of Cowswill's kick drum pattern going on here - I am a drummer and I know what I am talking about - you can hear the "1 and" note is early and has obviously been moved by the AQS (Automatic Quantization Software) badly because its shifted it too much

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80mT5zgfthA

Proof at when the snare comes in


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: hypehat on May 11, 2012, 04:42:33 AM
But no auto-tune, right?  ;)


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: desmondo on May 11, 2012, 04:45:13 AM
But no auto-tune, right?  ;)

What on the drums?????


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: Runaways on May 11, 2012, 04:47:56 AM
i dont' know what you'e talking about ._.


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: hypehat on May 11, 2012, 04:55:20 AM
I hear a drum hit. Nothing early about it.

You're the one telling us we're all insane on the Auto-Tune thread, and you're trying to say they're programming Cowsill's beats live? At least auto-tune makes some sense  given Brian's shaky vocals, but Cowsill is a sound drummer. Why would they?


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: AndrewHickey on May 11, 2012, 05:01:31 AM
How would that even work?

I've never heard of quantising being used live, but assuming it can be done, how could it *possibly* have moved the kick drum so it would sound *early*? That would require a time machine.

I have absolutely no doubt that they're using every single bit of technology at their disposal to make the shows sound as clean as possible, whether or not the technology actually improves things, so I wouldn't put it past them to fiddle with the feel of one of the best live drummers I've ever seen, but what you're saying doesn't make sens unless I'm missing something...

Also, I don't hear any problems with the drum part in that, other than that he seems to be playing a little hard.


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: hypehat on May 11, 2012, 05:14:36 AM
How would that even work?

I've never heard of quantising being used live, but assuming it can be done, how could it *possibly* have moved the kick drum so it would sound *early*? That would require a time machine.


Yeah, there is also that.


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: seltaeb1012002 on May 11, 2012, 05:17:01 AM
 :lol


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: Autotune on May 11, 2012, 05:20:13 AM
1- David's presence in the DIA session was fake for the video
2- no Blondie and Ricky
3- Brian did not write the cosa nostra-related single
4- Brian is autotuned in concerts
5- the album's gonna be unbearable due to compression
6- Cowsill's drums are Robotized

Gee, this reunion's gotta suck. ::)



Thank God audiophile fans don't make any decisions.


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: desmondo on May 11, 2012, 05:20:33 AM
How would that even work?

I've never heard of quantising being used live, but assuming it can be done, how could it *possibly* have moved the kick drum so it would sound *early*? That would require a time machine.

I have absolutely no doubt that they're using every single bit of technology at their disposal to make the shows sound as clean as possible, whether or not the technology actually improves things, so I wouldn't put it past them to fiddle with the feel of one of the best live drummers I've ever seen, but what you're saying doesn't make sens unless I'm missing something...

Also, I don't hear any problems with the drum part in that, other than that he seems to be playing a little hard.

.......and rushing - hence the Q


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: rab2591 on May 11, 2012, 05:41:14 AM
Could you possibly tell us how that works?


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: Old Rake on May 11, 2012, 05:47:42 AM
1- David's presence in the DIA session was fake for the video
2- no Blondie and Ricky
3- Brian did not write the cosa nostra-related single
4- Brian is autotuned in concerts
5- the album's gonna be unbearable due to compression
6- Cowsill's drums are Robotized

Gee, this reunion's gotta suck. ::)



Thank God audiophile fans don't make any decisions.

I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY. And am every day glad that my hearing hasn't been ruined by audiophilia -- I can still enjoy things without ever knowing/caring about crap like that.


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: desmondo on May 11, 2012, 05:51:39 AM
Could you possibly tell us how that works?

Well simply

Song bpms are fed into whatever processor is being used and also the level of quantization required - quarter notes, eighth notes, 16ths or whatever depending on time signature, tempo etc - drums are fed into this and quantised as they are played - so if for example a kick is late the processor will move it forward to where it should be based on the grid and vice versa - the level set will depend on how good the drummers time is - over quantize and it will sound absolutely sh*t - probably quarters or eighths are best because of the space between them - 16ths and 32nds will cause a problem because of how accurate drummers need to be at this level and the little space between each virtual note



Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: AndrewHickey on May 11, 2012, 06:19:07 AM
drums are fed into this and quantised as they are played - so if for example a kick is late the processor will move it forward to where it should be based on the grid and vice versa

Again, this is simply impossible. What you're describing would not only break the laws of physics, but it would break them in such a way that the result was non-Turing-computable, which would mean that even were it physically possible for such an effect to happen, the computer wouldn't be able to do it!
You can't play a live drum late and have the sound come out on time.
What you're describing would require the invention not only of a time machine, but also of a quantum computer that would be able to run its calculations in infinite simultaneous universes -- and not just a 'normal' quantum computer, either (those are PSPACE-reducible) but one that would rely on a new, as yet, theoretically-undiscovered form of quantum computing (although it's *possible* that you wouldn't need that if you could put a normal computer in orbit around a rotating black hole).

I would suggest that it is quite unlikely that the first sign we'd get of such technical developments is that a drum part in a Beach Boys gig would sound slightly off to one person but not to some others...

If you'd said that Cowsill played the drum early and the quantising program had moved it late, I might possibly have believed you, even though I've never heard of anyone using quantising live and can find no evidence on google of anyone ever doing so. But to say he played late and the quantiser moved it early is so far beyond the realms of what is possible using not only current technology but known-theoretically-possible technology (and if the strong form of the Church-Turing hypothesis is correct, may not even be logically possible under any circumstances at all) that I have no hesitation here in saying you're just wrong.


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: shelter on May 11, 2012, 06:33:00 AM
The idea of a rich rock band touring with a hired drummer who needs a computer to get his drum parts tight seems pretty unlikely to me.


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: AndrewHickey on May 11, 2012, 06:38:45 AM
The idea of a rich rock band touring with a hired drummer who needs a computer to get his drum parts tight seems pretty unlikely to me.

That in itself doesn't seem unlikely to me. If such technology existed, it would make perfect sense for it to be in use. Nobody's perfect, people make mistakes, and it wouldn't be tha much different than using a click, for example. Cowsill very clearly *doesn't* need anything to keep him in time -- just like he almost certainly doesn't need a click -- but it would make sense to have a safety net there just in case.

The problem is just that the safety net described by desmondo -- unless he's meaning something very different but expressing himself badly -- can't possibly exist.


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: Eireannach on May 11, 2012, 06:56:38 AM
Is this real life?


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: Emdeeh on May 11, 2012, 07:06:09 AM
What about Nelson Bragg? He's playing drums and percussion right next to Cowsill.


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: desmondo on May 11, 2012, 07:23:50 AM
What about Nelson Bragg? He's playing drums and percussion right next to Cowsill.

Nelson Bragg plays percussion and will be using Cowswill as the time keeper


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: hypehat on May 11, 2012, 07:24:18 AM
Nah, clearly the Beach Boys sound crew have perfected the art of quantum physics!


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: rab2591 on May 11, 2012, 07:56:33 AM
that made my day :lol


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: D409 on May 11, 2012, 08:06:33 AM
This whole thread is one big "SO WHAT ???" to me.

The only thing that seems likely is that Cowsill could be playing to a click track having noted the ideal tempos of each song. These tempos (tempi ?) would have been agreed on during rehearsals by the band and the musical director (Totten, Sahanaja, Foskett, whoever).

One big fuss about nothing in particular - Cowsill's an excellent drummer, any click or safety net would only be in place to ensure consistency.


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: AndrewHickey on May 11, 2012, 08:17:55 AM
Nah, clearly the Beach Boys sound crew have perfected the art of quantum physics!

Mike meditated so hard he became one with the universe and is able to rewrite the laws of cause and effect to suit himself. However, because he is so humble and self-effacing, he only uses those powers to do minor good works like correct a kick-drum part. I bet that's it.


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: Menace Wilson on May 11, 2012, 08:24:12 AM
How would that even work?

I've never heard of quantising being used live, but assuming it can be done, how could it *possibly* have moved the kick drum so it would sound *early*? That would require a time machine.

Awesome.


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: SBonilla on May 11, 2012, 08:24:40 AM
You need good timin', but please let him wander. OK?


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: Aegir on May 11, 2012, 09:03:02 AM
I think this is a parody thread.


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: D409 on May 11, 2012, 09:13:36 AM
I think this is a parody thread.
I certainly hope so, hence my earlier outburst !


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: SBonilla on May 11, 2012, 10:10:15 AM
I think this is a parody thread.
I certainly hope so, hence my earlier outburst !
A parodiddley, perhaps?


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: desmondo on May 11, 2012, 10:16:35 AM
Congratulations to Aegir

This is indeed a parody - live quantisation is impossible - you would have to delay everything for a bar so the computer could catch up - Mr Hickey is right

Its just that I got fed up with all the autotune stuff and wished it was April again

Apologies to anyone who may feel offended


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: send me a picture and i'll tell you on May 11, 2012, 11:04:44 AM
And drums go boom really loud, so a lot of people would hear the real drum and the quantized drum too.

C'est impossibile. 










Good parody!


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: anazgnos on May 11, 2012, 11:15:23 AM
This effect is not impossible at all, it's a pretty simple circuit very similar to a regular delay line, but instead of using regular capacitors you just use flux capacitors.  Powering it can be a little troublesome, but you do have a couple (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium) options (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning) there.


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: ontor pertawst on May 11, 2012, 01:12:52 PM
Cowsill is actually a MIDI signal. Little known fact.


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: AndrewHickey on May 11, 2012, 02:59:05 PM
Cowsill is actually a MIDI signal. Little known fact.

MIDI uses Cowsill to keep on time.


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: Eireannach on May 11, 2012, 03:03:18 PM
Congratulations to Aegir

This is indeed a parody - live quantisation is impossible - you would have to delay everything for a bar so the computer could catch up - Mr Hickey is right

Its just that I got fed up with all the autotune stuff and wished it was April again

Apologies to anyone who may feel offended

(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly9fswWJwX1qfaknl.gif)

You know it's a great parody when most people miss it, myself included.


Title: Re: Quantization on 50th Tour
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on May 11, 2012, 03:33:37 PM
Cowsill is actually a MIDI signal. Little known fact.

MIDI uses Cowsill to keep on time.

:lol

Cowsil makes burgers from ground chuck....norris.