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Smiley Smile Stuff => Smile Sessions Box Set (2011) => Topic started by: desmondo on October 28, 2011, 08:09:36 AM



Title: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: desmondo on October 28, 2011, 08:09:36 AM
Pst thoughts on DYLW here


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Shady on October 29, 2011, 09:53:54 AM
Steals the show..

Sounds remarkable, exactly how I wanted it to be 


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: cta on October 29, 2011, 10:22:32 AM
Feel that it had the possibility of becoming a strong tune, but from what I've heard, it's missing too much to really deliver.   Either that or I've heard only 50 different versions out of the possible 100.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: John Stivaktas on October 30, 2011, 05:32:32 AM
I wonder why the 'Ribbon of Concrete' vocals weren't added to this mix?


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: mammy blue on October 30, 2011, 06:05:56 AM
The Beach Boys never recorded "Ribbon of Concrete", or at least they're not in the vaults.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: hypehat on October 30, 2011, 06:37:14 AM
I cannot be positive, but they might have been a 2004 addition.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Yorick on October 30, 2011, 07:25:22 AM
I've just heard Brian singing "Once upon the Sandwich isles" during the sessions and it is indeed a totally different melody than the one we have on BWPS. It's also sung very high, which makes it all the more interesting.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: mammy blue on October 30, 2011, 07:35:39 AM
I cannot be positive, but they might have been a 2004 addition.

The lyrics are definitely vintage though.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: runnersdialzero on October 30, 2011, 06:10:51 PM
I believe we were previously told the melody and lyrics (including the "Ribbon of concrete" part) were vintage, but it appears only the lyrics are. I've yet to hear the original melody.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Micha on October 30, 2011, 11:22:18 PM
I've just heard Brian singing "Once upon the Sandwich isles" during the sessions and it is indeed a totally different melody than the one we have on BWPS. It's also sung very high, which makes it all the more interesting.

This melody sounds to me like an additional vocal, not an alternate melody. Applied to the chords, it would take only one half of these "verses". My unbacked guess would be that it would probably set in in the second half.

Man, so many vocal parts for DYLW are missing, it is heartbreaking.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: richardsnow on October 31, 2011, 03:52:44 AM
Just listened. I was holidng on to a 1% hope that maybe an acetate had turned up with lead vox on, but there you go. Sounds great anyway.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: homeontherange on October 31, 2011, 05:20:49 AM
I've just heard Brian singing "Once upon the Sandwich isles" during the sessions and it is indeed a totally different melody than the one we have on BWPS. It's also sung very high, which makes it all the more interesting.

This melody sounds to me like an additional vocal, not an alternate melody. Applied to the chords, it would take only one half of these "verses". My unbacked guess would be that it would probably set in in the second half.

Man, so many vocal parts for DYLW are missing, it is heartbreaking.

I think it sounds like a verse melody for the first chord. At the second chord the melody would probably be slightly different to fit the chord.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Mooger Fooger on October 31, 2011, 02:35:02 PM
I've synched up the count-in verse vocal by Brian to the DYLW track. It fits nicely and makes one wonder how cool the track would have been with _that_ finished vocal track...


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Chris Brown on October 31, 2011, 08:19:45 PM
I've just heard Brian singing "Once upon the Sandwich isles" during the sessions and it is indeed a totally different melody than the one we have on BWPS. It's also sung very high, which makes it all the more interesting.

This melody sounds to me like an additional vocal, not an alternate melody. Applied to the chords, it would take only one half of these "verses". My unbacked guess would be that it would probably set in in the second half.

Man, so many vocal parts for DYLW are missing, it is heartbreaking.

I think it sounds like a verse melody for the first chord. At the second chord the melody would probably be slightly different to fit the chord.

I agree with Micha, it sounds like a response line to the melody vocal, not the lead melody itself.  Guess we'll never know unfortunately, but still incredibly cool to hear.

Love the new mix, aside from the lack of fadeout, replaced by the "woo-woo"s from "Heroes" a la BWPS.  But that's easy enough to fix - what's most important is that the track and vocals have never sounded better.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: John Stivaktas on November 01, 2011, 02:33:04 AM
Just listened. I was holidng on to a 1% hope that maybe an acetate had turned up with lead vox on, but there you go. Sounds great anyway.

I read somewhere ages ago, an obscure reference no doubt, that possibly Carl did the lead vocals on this track but they may have been wiped over. Personally, I doubt it ever happened as the final verse lyrics weren't decided upon of course until BWPS in 2003/4.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Boiled Egg on November 01, 2011, 03:45:04 AM
Biggest revelation of the box set so far for me, that snippet of vocal melody. I've long thought that the 'melody' on the BWPS version is nothing of the sort - and that it's a set of backing vocals. Heaven knows, it's got less going on in it than in most of the album's backing vocals. So perhaps this little control-room snippet gives us a better idea of what the lead melody was to be? Certainly, it sounds like a SMiLE melody, unlike the dreary dirge on BWPS.

Question raised: what would have occupied the rest of that line of the melody? 'Once up-on the Sand-wich Isles xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx'? (And this is before accounting for the half-a-verse thing pointed out above. Call and answer vocals could have covered that.

Hell, as ever, you run round and round in circles and end up back in the Land Of Don't Know.

(Surely Van could throw some light on this?)


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: theCOD on November 01, 2011, 04:54:06 AM
Personally, I doubt it ever happened as the final verse lyrics weren't decided upon of course until BWPS in 2003/4.

I'm almost positive all the lyrics to RPR 2004 are vintage. I think the story is Brian remembered the melody, couldn't make out the last word(s) on the lyric sheet and called up VDP to confirm.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: hypehat on November 01, 2011, 06:09:12 AM
Only problem with that melody is that you can't fit 'The social structures steamed upon Hawaii' in there - doesn't scan.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Boiled Egg on November 01, 2011, 06:16:02 AM
It's easily fitted, if you put an upbeat to it. What comes after the lines have run out is the bigger mystery.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: desmondo on November 01, 2011, 07:16:11 AM
The 2004 lyrics are vintage 1966 without doubt - haven't heard the box yet so looking forward to hearing that melody snippet


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Runaways on November 01, 2011, 02:12:28 PM
i'm super pleased how this turned out.  I actually can listen to it straight now.  Especially when that bass kicks in, yum.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Wrightfan on November 01, 2011, 03:38:42 PM
Love how they went from the Bicycle Rider section to the bridge.

Brian singing the lyrics! There's no way I can sing them any other way now. Very "Hawaiian"


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Chris Brown on November 01, 2011, 07:59:58 PM
Love how they went from the Bicycle Rider section to the bridge.

Brian singing the lyrics! There's no way I can sing them any other way now. Very "Hawaiian"

Yeah that fuzz bass is freaking killer - Brian really knew how to use that instrument tastefully, but to great effect.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Les P on November 01, 2011, 10:22:41 PM
I've just heard Brian singing "Once upon the Sandwich isles" during the sessions and it is indeed a totally different melody than the one we have on BWPS. It's also sung very high, which makes it all the more interesting.

Wow, thanks for pointing that out, Yorick.  What a tantalizing snippet.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on November 03, 2011, 09:07:23 AM
Just heard that little vocal snippet. It's really cool. I think that this was the main vocal melody - not sure why he would be singing an additional vocal. The thing is - it almost sounds like there's more lyrics - Once upon the sandwhich isles do do do do...


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on November 03, 2011, 10:08:31 AM
To me, the BWPS vocal on this always felt like a backing vocal--it's too boring and monotonal for a Brian Wilson '66 melody, so this makes a lot of sense, though of course we'd like to see how it all goes.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: absinthe_boy on November 03, 2011, 12:03:22 PM
Personally, I doubt it ever happened as the final verse lyrics weren't decided upon of course until BWPS in 2003/4.

I'm almost positive all the lyrics to RPR 2004 are vintage. I think the story is Brian remembered the melody, couldn't make out the last word(s) on the lyric sheet and called up VDP to confirm.
[/quote

The lyrics are from 1966.

You are correct that Brian started singing the melody on RPR during the time he and Darian were piecing BWPS together. Darian has said that Brian remembered the melody as if it came out of thin air, he just started humming it along to the Worms recording.

They had VDP's written lyrics in the vault but couldn't make out a word....Brian called up VDP who faxed back his copy of the lyric and the missing word was "indians".

Next day, Darian arrives at Brian's house and is greeted by Brian on the porch with the words "Hi Darian. Van Dyke will be here in 15 minutes"....must have been an amazing moment for Darian as that is what got Brian and VDP working together again on the reconstructed SMiLE.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: mammy blue on November 03, 2011, 08:55:58 PM
The snippet in the sessions box is the real Worms melody. I'm certain of it. I'll never hear that song the same way again. Stick that melody line over the group vocals and you're there.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: puni puni on November 03, 2011, 10:00:10 PM
brians singing it high because that was suppose to be his high part


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on November 04, 2011, 04:01:09 AM
brians singing it high because that was suppose to be his high part

It's not really that high.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: puni puni on November 04, 2011, 05:30:00 AM
he's in falsetto mode...


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on November 05, 2011, 07:41:30 AM
Just because he's backed off it a little bit doesn't mean it's high.  The tessitura of the line is roughly along the lines of "Wouldn't it be nice" or something.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: John Stivaktas on November 05, 2011, 08:03:29 AM
Just listened. I was holidng on to a 1% hope that maybe an acetate had turned up with lead vox on, but there you go. Sounds great anyway.

I read somewhere ages ago, an obscure reference no doubt, that possibly Carl did the lead vocals on this track but they may have been wiped over. Personally, I doubt it ever happened as the final verse lyrics weren't decided upon of course until BWPS in 2003/4.

Sorry, what I meant is that the final verse lyrics weren't decided upon until 2004 when the lyrics were sung on BWPS. I knew they were 1966 lyrics because the following verse below was left out on BWPS:

And as we returned to the East or West Indies
We always got them confused

Similarly to Cabinessence, with the unused 'reconnected telephone' lyrics.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Micha on November 05, 2011, 10:27:31 AM
not sure why he would be singing an additional vocal.

Why not? Why would he be singing the main melody either?

Maybe he just made up that melody on the spot?

Who knows?


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Micha on November 05, 2011, 10:37:45 AM
Just listened. I was holidng on to a 1% hope that maybe an acetate had turned up with lead vox on, but there you go. Sounds great anyway.

I read somewhere ages ago, an obscure reference no doubt, that possibly Carl did the lead vocals on this track but they may have been wiped over. Personally, I doubt it ever happened as the final verse lyrics weren't decided upon of course until BWPS in 2003/4.

Sorry, what I meant is that the final verse lyrics weren't decided upon until 2004 when the lyrics were sung on BWPS. I knew they were 1966 lyrics because the following verse below was left out on BWPS:

And as we returned to the East or West Indies
We always got them confused

I think it was "Having returned to...", not "And as we returned to...", and my guess is those lyrics would have been on the "winding down" BR bit before (originally) the fadeout or before (now) the woowoos.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on November 05, 2011, 02:42:13 PM
not sure why he would be singing an additional vocal.

Why not? Why would he be singing the main melody either?

Why not? Because you typically sing the main melody when singing a song. And why would he be singing it? Because he's testing to see if the tempo is right for the melody, a point that's made perfectly clear from listening to it.

Quote
Maybe he just made up that melody on the spot?

But if you're trying to make sure the tempo is right for the melody, which he is undeniably doing, then you would actually sing the melody rather than make one up.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: adam78 on November 05, 2011, 03:18:16 PM
the moment i heard this, i thought, if you follow the timing he sings "once upon the sandwich isles..." you can sing that melody with the rest of the words right through to upon hawaii all in the first line. Drawing out "upon hawaii" and singing it the exact same way they do in BWPS. maybe thats something he remembered in 2004? just start singing the moment the music starts and it works perfectly, isn't rushed and totally in keeping with his descending vocals as per heroes and villains, so it's not even a stretch of an idea that it may have gone like this. of course, who knows?

i think the fact he calls out to van to check and then sings is significant. it's like he's looking for agreement, so strengthens the case to me that he's singing a genuine melody, rather than made up on the spot!?!


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Tricycle Rider on November 06, 2011, 12:31:18 AM
the moment i heard this, i thought, if you follow the timing he sings "once upon the sandwich isles..." you can sing that melody with the rest of the words right through to upon hawaii all in the first line. Drawing out "upon hawaii" and singing it the exact same way they do in BWPS. maybe thats something he remembered in 2004? just start singing the moment the music starts and it works perfectly, isn't rushed and totally in keeping with his descending vocals as per heroes and villains, so it's not even a stretch of an idea that it may have gone like this. of course, who knows?

This is exactly the way i've been hearing this from the first listen. That's the original melody all right!  :)

(All of the above IMHO)


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: The_Holy_Bee on November 06, 2011, 03:08:03 AM
COPIED from a post of mine on the Hoffman, itself compiled from posts made earlier today here on Smiley. This could equally fit on the "holidays" thread, but I may as well put it here:

Okay, so it may well be crazy time, but...

I'm increasingly convinced that "Holidays" is the original tracking for "Do You Like Worms". Obviously musically the entire song changed for that second version, but the lyrics remained more-or-less in tact.

A link has been suggested between them before, for various reasons, but TSS might actually give us some debatable period evidence that they're actually the same song. If you listen closely to what Brian is singing in this rehearsal for "Holidays" (the first part of the following file):

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/...onstration.mp3

... it sounds to me like Brian begins by singing "Waving Indians behind us".

(I'm quite aware it's probably just me, but my ear's not bad. Also, when I first listened to the file it jumped out at me straight away - and before that it had never even occurred to me that Holidays and Worms might be so strongly connected. The word to listen for is "Indians" (or Iiiiindians; the first syllable is emphasised in the timing) if it helps.)

Yeah, "Waving" should be "Cheering", but it's quite possible he just confused the two similar verbs when running it through. Brian and Van had only been working on the SMiLE lyrics for a couple of weeks at this point, so who knows how long the "Worms/Holidays" lyrics had been around by then?

Indeed, though I'm probably going nuts - and making myself hear what I want to - I think I might even hearing this:

Waving Indians behind us as we
(incomprehensible) East or (incomprehensible) we

Remember those famous lyrics given to Frank Holmes that don't turn up in DYLW proper? Were the lyrics Holmes received from the unexpurgated original version of the song, ie. "Holidays"? If the "East or West Indies" lyrics and others were removed for the rewrite/remount, this would explain why he recalls them while no other participants do, and why the song as we now know it doesn't actually seem to support that section melodically.

Stretching again, there are more musical similarities between the two tracks than may at first appear. Crashing tympani on verse? Check. Vaguely Hawaiian sounding piece towards the end of the song? Check. Slowly winding down piano piece at what seems to be the conclusion of the track, only for a repetitive coda to start up? Check.

Even more subjectively, "Holidays" has a jaunty - almost naval - seafaring feel to the track (echoed out in OAH's much later lyrics) that also fits Parks' '66 lyrics for "Worms", perhaps even more so than the DYLW music we know.

And, try imagining the opening/middle vibraphone (?) sections as the original version of "Bicycle Rider". It's actually easy, and surprisingly satisfying, to fit those lyrics - or "Ribbon of Concrete, see what you've done, done, etc" - over that melody.

(On SS, it was pointed out that in the "Holidays" sessions on the Box Set Brian refers to the bit he plays in that clip as from "the second chorus" - I'd suggest that depending on how you look at it, the vibraphone/"Ribbon of Concrete" sections could be considered verses and the upbeat section a chorus, albeit one with some changing lyrics (ie. the "Once Upon" melody sections and "Rock Plymouth Roll")? Choruses with different words throughout the song weren't all that unusual even in '66, largely thanks to people like Dylan.)

So, here's how this original version might have been structured:

Bicycle Rider/Verse 1-Roll Plymouth Rock/Bicycle Rider/Verse 2-Roll Plymouth Rock/Music Box fake ending/Wahala-lu-lay (to fade)

HOLIDAYS
(Wilson/Parks)

Bicycle Rider, just see what you've done, done... to the church of the American Indian

Waving from the Ocean Liners, beaded
Cheering Indians behind them, as we
Returned to the East or West Indies - we
Always got them confused

Rock, rock, roll, Plymouth Rock
Rock, rock, roll Plymouth Rock, roll over

Ribbon of concrete, just see what you've done
Done to the Church of the American Indian

Once upon the Sandwich Isles, the
Social Structure steamed upon Hawaii - having
Returned to the East or West Indies, we
Always got them confused...

Rock, rock, roll, Plymouth Rock
Rock, rock, roll Plymouth Rock, roll over

Plymouth Rock, roll over...

Mahalo lu le, Mahalo lu la
Keeni waka pula
Mahalo lu le, Mahalo lu la
Keeni waka pula
(repeat to fade)

Circumstantial evidence:

* "Holidays" is tracked in early September, then never gets looked at again, though this is not unique for the era. (A month and a bit later, "Worms" is tracked.) *
* Darian states that Brian spontaneously recalled the "Plymouth Rock" chorus vocals when listening to "Holidays" for BWPS.
*Interestingly, but probably meaninglessly, the original back cover has "Worms" opening the record, followed by "Wind Chimes". "Holidays" is now enshrined as preceding WC, and even uses the coda for a transition between the two.
* "That's not 'Worms'" - Al Jardine hearing the "Worms" backing track decades later. Simple confusion after so many years, and so many pieces recorded for SMiLE? Maybe - and yet we know that Al was particularly fond of "Worms", as there's a vintage '66 interview in which he states a song with "a Hawaiian section" is probably "the best thing we've ever done".
* The name given on the tracking session, "Holidays", is in keeping with with the lyrics thematically: "Waving from the ocean liners" with Indians behind us ("we" are leaving America, not arriving there), "returned to East or West Indies", Hawaiian motif.

And it also reflects the album's concern with the way the casual expansionism of the white man - the Bicycle Rider with his rain of bullets and iron horse - wipes out the culture of those it comes into contact with: unwittingly exploiting, littering and destroying the places it lands... like well-meaning but oblivious tourists on a holiday.

I'm nuts, right? Yeah, I'm nuts.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: The Demon on November 06, 2011, 07:24:15 AM
Great post, and a lot to think about.  Like with many Smile songs, there are so many implied/circumstantial connections.  They're easy to see, but hard to prove.  But it wouldn't surprise me if all of this was correct.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: The Demon on November 06, 2011, 11:42:59 AM
The connection also has me thinking more about the use of the word "Child" in "On a Holiday."  That used to feel more like a way to connect songs and flesh out BWPS, but I'm wondering if anything like that was actually considered back then as part if a larger theme.  The elements are infused through many other compositions on Smile, and the box only highlights the connection between "Child is Father of the Man" and "Dada"/"Cool Cool Water," which we already knew about.  "Holiday" being about sailing (water), it's not so coincidental that there is a brief "Child" reference.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: XXXCD on November 06, 2011, 12:30:35 PM
It's clear (to me at least) that the melody sung by Brian in the 1967 recording session is the authentic melody for "Worms" and NOT the  melody used in the 2004 recording. The 1967 snippet sounds very Polynesian sounding- like a hula dance.

If you sing that melody over the opening bars of Worms you get a flavour of what the song was supposed to sound like. And its much better than the 2004 version.

Like most of the Smile tracks, I think Worms is VERY incomplete. With rich layers of Beach Boys vocals placed over the top of the backing track segments, I believe that the whole thing would have sounded so much different and so much smoother.  Its's like trying to work out what Good vibrations would have sounded like just by listening to sections of backing track recordings.

A tragedy that neither BW or VDP ever wrote down the Smile music (or recorded demos), meaning that all these great songs are lost for ever.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: trismegistus on November 06, 2011, 02:18:00 PM
Great post Holy Bee! It really stimulates the creative process, making you think about the relationships between songs more...and if nothing else, I'm starting to find the idea of Worms opening with Bicycle Rider pretty attractive...gonna have to boot up Audacity and move some things around to see what happens...


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Chris Brown on November 06, 2011, 04:05:19 PM
Great post Holy Bee! It really stimulates the creative process, making you think about the relationships between songs more...and if nothing else, I'm starting to find the idea of Worms opening with Bicycle Rider pretty attractive...gonna have to boot up Audacity and move some things around to see what happens...

+1.  That post really has my brain buzzing - crazy or not, when you lay it out like that, the theory makes a lot of sense.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Wirestone on November 06, 2011, 08:31:33 PM
Quote
If you sing that melody over the opening bars of Worms you get a flavour of what the song was supposed to sound like. And its much better than the 2004 version.

I can also imagine an awesome 30-minute take of Good Vibrations, full of swirling vocals and theremin solos. It's much better than what was released!


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: trismegistus on November 06, 2011, 08:35:42 PM
I can also imagine an awesome 30-minute take of Good Vibrations, full of swirling vocals and theremin solos. It's much better than what was released!

I imagined I heard them encore with that at Monterey Pop!!


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Wirestone on November 06, 2011, 08:38:50 PM
Quote
I imagined I heard them encore with that at Monterey Pop!!

What was really amazing was when Jimi Hendrix started soloing over Mike's theremin part ...


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Mahalo on November 06, 2011, 08:41:20 PM
Was that when Mike Love set fire to the theramin?


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: tygerbug on November 06, 2011, 08:41:41 PM
Holy Bee, what you just did makes no musical sense whatsoever. You should stop.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Rerun on November 06, 2011, 09:24:20 PM
Holy Bee, what you just did makes no musical sense whatsoever. You should stop.


Hahahaha...so true, so true...


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: The_Holy_Bee on November 06, 2011, 11:16:20 PM
Fair enough!  :)

EDIT: Removed the musically offending post/link from above. Apologies to those who had to hear it, and no offense taken from those who pointed it out.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: tygerbug on November 06, 2011, 11:30:38 PM
Glad you didn't take offense.

Sorry I had to be harsh, but you sure did make the exact opposite point you were trying to make. The two go together like two things that would never, ever go together ever.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: The_Holy_Bee on November 06, 2011, 11:34:42 PM
Glad you didn't take offense.

Sorry I had to be harsh, but you sure did make the exact opposite point you were trying to make. The two go together like two things that would never, ever go together ever.

I'm not sure you had to be so harsh - "be kind" wasn't intended as a euphemism - but I do understand where you were coming from, and I did manage to shoot myself in the foot with that one! Thanks though for not letting me go on making a fool either of myself or of the theory. No worries, as we say in Kiwi-land.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: tygerbug on November 07, 2011, 01:05:58 AM
   Clearly I didn't have to be so harsh to make my point ..... but it's hard to judge these things.

   It was an idea, you tried it, it didn't work, no harm done.

   I have only recently joined this board and I don't like people being jerks to each other on the internet either. I suppose we all contribute to that every now and then.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Micha on November 07, 2011, 01:32:32 AM
Quote
Maybe he just made up that melody on the spot?

But if you're trying to make sure the tempo is right for the melody, which he is undeniably doing, then you would actually sing the melody rather than make one up.

I'm actually with you there, but I still believe it is an answer line harmony part. The reason he uses that melody could be for example that it is sung faster than the proposed main melody line as used on BWPS, and he wants to make sure that the song not played too fast for that line.

But I honestly can't rule out he made it up on the spot - I think Brian's creative mind is ingenious enough to set the tempo and at the same time make up another harmony part.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: tygerbug on November 07, 2011, 02:32:21 AM
It sounds like a generic Beach Boy "answering" backing vocal to me. Possibly to be tried and abandoned like the Roll With Me Henry stuff.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: smackdaddy on November 07, 2011, 03:00:09 AM
No, it's obviously meant to be the real secret melody Melinda's been suppressing all this time and anyone with ears can tell!  Now, please consult these supplemental diagrams I've drawn up and cross-reference them with these helpful youtube videos and mp3s....


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: runnersdialzero on November 07, 2011, 06:46:02 AM
SHE HAS A CRACK CHILD, BABY, AND SHE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH HERSELF


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: XXXCD on November 07, 2011, 06:57:57 AM
What was the source of the "once upon the sandwich isles" melody used in the 2004 BW version ?

I think i read somewhere that it was something sung "on the spot" by Brian in 2004, rather than being based on any archive material from 1967 (either in recorded or written form).

It might be possible that Brian was remembering what he had originally written in 1967. But to be honest, I find this unlikely. I don't mean to offend anyone, but i don't think Brian has been quite "all there" mentally for many years, so i think its unlikely that Brian was recalling the original tune. I think its more likely that Brian created the 2004 melody in 2004.

Which leaves Brian's 1967 control booth singing as the most likely clue to the original melody for the opening segemnt of Worms.

As i said previously, it sounds a lot better and also fits the backing track very well. Sing it in your head a couple of times over the opening bars- it seems to make sense.

It would also match the "hawaiian" sound of the wala-lu-lei section.



Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: 37!ws on November 08, 2011, 02:49:02 PM
Am I a bad person for singing the chorus of Kiss's "I Was Made For Lovin' You" to the bass line of DYLW?


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Jay on November 08, 2011, 09:24:04 PM
I didn't look through the posts on here to closely, so I hope this hasn't been said already. Hearing that one part at the correct speed sounds really weird, after hearing the Good Vibrations box set for years.  ;D


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: 37!ws on November 10, 2011, 07:43:59 AM
I know what you mean. Man, the tape problem is in PERFECT time with the music, and it's enough of a warp that it sounds actually natural, as if they're singing a dominant seventh.

I do miss the cough, though.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: OneEar/OneEye on November 10, 2011, 01:07:41 PM
Am I a bad person for singing the chorus of Kiss's "I Was Made For Lovin' You" to the bass line of DYLW?

Actually, there is also a part in the TSS H&V sessions where Brian, or someone, is playing a riff on the piano - and it is exactly the riff from "I Was made For Lovin' You" by Kiss.   I started singing that along to it and had me a big ol' laugh fest for several minutes.   :lol


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Caroline Yes on November 10, 2011, 03:19:53 PM
On what track on the box can this vocal snippet of Brian singing an alternate melody be found?


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Wrightfan on November 10, 2011, 03:45:21 PM
On what track on the box can this vocal snippet of Brian singing an alternate melody be found?

It's disc 3, track 1 on the box set.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Caroline Yes on November 10, 2011, 04:21:04 PM
Thanks!   ;D


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: krabklaw on November 10, 2011, 05:09:32 PM
I agree with those who believe that Brian's studio chatter definitely points to a different lead melody than what was presented on BWPS.
Sounds like he sings "a-Once upon the Sandwich Island desert". Do others hear it differently? Anyway, maybe the second verse with the Sandwich Island lyrics would have had a different more Hawaiian 'feel' than the first verse, since it's followed by the whole Hawaiian section. Maybe even the lead vocal melody could have changed. Interesting stuff. It's really too bad that Brian didn't even finish the whole line. I don't think what's there is even worth adding to a Smile mix even though it definitely times out OK.
We can't even pull a 'Barnyard' here.  :lol


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Jay on November 10, 2011, 09:11:47 PM
I know what you mean. Man, the tape problem is in PERFECT time with the music, and it's enough of a warp that it sounds actually natural, as if they're singing a dominant seventh.

I do miss the cough, though.
That little section to me always sounded out of tune anyway, even if it was probably unintentional. I don't know if it was the vocal harmonies or the music, or a weird combination of both. I can still here the speed problem on the new version, even though I know it's not there.  ;D

Where's the cough? In DYLW? I've never heard it.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Roger Ryan on November 11, 2011, 07:00:24 AM
Where's the cough? In DYLW? I've never heard it.

It's very prominent on the boot versions of the song. If I remember correctly, it's during one of the "rock, rock, roll, Plymouth rock roll over" lines. The timing of the cough (along with the reverb) makes it sound almost musical. It obviously happened during one of the vocal overdubs and has been mixed out of the two officially-released versions.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: tansen on November 11, 2011, 02:20:57 PM
Am I a bad person for singing the chorus of Kiss's "I Was Made For Lovin' You" to the bass line of DYLW?

Check the H&V thread, buddy :)


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: sly74 on November 11, 2011, 02:23:48 PM
Where's the cough? In DYLW? I've never heard it.

It's very prominent on the boot versions of the song. If I remember correctly, it's during one of the "rock, rock, roll, Plymouth rock roll over" lines. The timing of the cough (along with the reverb) makes it sound almost musical. It obviously happened during one of the vocal overdubs and has been mixed out of the two officially-released versions.

Yes, it's during the second "rock, rock, roll". It's a weird sound, like a cough and sneeze combined which made me think it was deliberate.  In that context, I always thought of it as a comical acknowledgement of the play on words during those lines.  Probably not but anyway, got used to it and miss it in being in there.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Boiled Egg on November 11, 2011, 03:23:16 PM
twopennyworth, imported from another thread

----

I'd like to lob this perspective into the mix.

Brian is recording a song he recently wrote in this newly discovered fragment. He's trying to line up the tempo of the backing track, and, with Van sitting (presumably) just behind him in the control room, sings that fragment.

If it weren't the melody he'd written for DYLW, why on earth would he have sung it? There really is no reasonable explanation other than That's How It Goes.

With the BWPS version, it seems feasible to me that he remembered some backing vocals. SMiLE contains the most complex backing vocals the BBs ever recorded (hell, that 10-part combined chord and countermelody backing for the H&V verse is possibly the greatest backing vocal arrangement BW ever committed to tape) -- and his writing had a tendency to pile things on top of each other.

If you'd never heard the H&V melody, say, but heard that isolated backing vocal track (as on the original single), you'd be blown away, and would have trouble working out where another mleody could have fitted across it. And a glance at the lyric sheet would have got you nowhere. Likewise, if you'd heard one of the three combined countermelodies of the GOK fade, you'd have had trouble imagining either of the other two, and would have thought the job was a good 'un. Similarly, the GV chorus is made of three stacked melodies: Mike's one, following the bass line, the stacked 'good bup bup', and then the stacked high line. Each would be enough on its own if you didn't know the other two existed.

For my money, this was the melody BW wrote for DYLW, and he had stacks of bvs sloshing around with it. I've always thought, for such a supreme melodist as BW, that the BWPS 'melody' for DYLW/RPR is nothing of the sort -- it's practically static; something quite uncharacteristic for BW, especially at this period in his writing, when his melodies were prone to doing extraordinary things -- big reaches (Surf's Up, Cabinessence), difficult and very satisfying leaps (Wonderful), twists and switchbacks (Heroes And Villains, this DYLW melody, Vega-Tables).

I've often wondered whether BW recorded demos. F*** knows how you memorise Surf's Up or Wonderful without committing to either tape or paper. Astonishing writing.

If only, if only...


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Jay on November 11, 2011, 09:46:06 PM
Where's the cough? In DYLW? I've never heard it.

It's very prominent on the boot versions of the song. If I remember correctly, it's during one of the "rock, rock, roll, Plymouth rock roll over" lines. The timing of the cough (along with the reverb) makes it sound almost musical. It obviously happened during one of the vocal overdubs and has been mixed out of the two officially-released versions.
Oh, I've heard that before. I think I heard it in the "alternate brian wilson" mix. I just figured it was something added in for comic effect.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Jeff on November 11, 2011, 09:59:58 PM
When Linett made the comment about BWPS being the "template" for the new Smile release, I was bitterly disappointed for a time, because I thought they were going to create a Purple Chick bit of horribleness.

But as it turns out, I'm very, very happy with what they did.

One of the few exceptions is the "woo woo" at the end of Worms.  To paraphrase Al, that's not part of Worms.  It shouldn't be there, and of course is used in H&V, where it belongs, just two tracks earlier.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: TheManchesterMan on November 12, 2011, 03:35:04 AM
When Linett made the comment about BWPS being the "template" for the new Smile release, I was bitterly disappointed for a time, because I thought they were going to create a Purple Chick bit of horribleness.

But as it turns out, I'm very, very happy with what they did.

One of the few exceptions is the "woo woo" at the end of Worms.  To paraphrase Al, that's not part of Worms.  It shouldn't be there, and of course is used in H&V, where it belongs, just two tracks earlier.

I agree with that. While not sounding half as dreadful as on BWPS, it is just wrong. I can see why it worked for live shows but it does not belong on this track and pretty much the first thing I did was to chop that off and replace it with the bicycle rider fade.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Roger Ryan on November 13, 2011, 10:08:54 AM
That new little melody that Brian sings sounds awfully close to that the descending stand-up bass line in the chorus. Could he simply be singing it like that because he had been listening to take after take of the bass playing that line? Or, is the bass line there in the chorus track as an "echo" of the melody that was supposed to be heard in the verse section?


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on November 13, 2011, 10:21:48 AM
One of the few exceptions is the "woo woo" at the end of Worms.  To paraphrase Al, that's not part of Worms.  It shouldn't be there, and of course is used in H&V, where it belongs, just two tracks earlier.

Yeah, but it does work if Worms goes into Cabinessence which I've been thinking about since the set comes out. To me, the two together tell a more complete narrative.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: TheManchesterMan on November 13, 2011, 12:48:42 PM
That new little melody that Brian sings sounds awfully close to that the descending stand-up bass line in the chorus. Could he simply be singing it like that because he had been listening to take after take of the bass playing that line? Or, is the bass line there in the chorus track as an "echo" of the melody that was supposed to be heard in the verse section?

That's what I said elsewhere. It's a counterpoint to the string bass or vice versa. It may be that the newly discovered vocal melody was to be sung over that bassline, echoing the lyrics of the verse which may have been as they were recorded for BWPS. Lots of "may haves" in there, I know, bt it's a possibility.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Roger Ryan on November 13, 2011, 04:01:00 PM
That new little melody that Brian sings sounds awfully close to that the descending stand-up bass line in the chorus. Could he simply be singing it like that because he had been listening to take after take of the bass playing that line? Or, is the bass line there in the chorus track as an "echo" of the melody that was supposed to be heard in the verse section?

That's what I said elsewhere. It's a counterpoint to the string bass or vice versa. It may be that the newly discovered vocal melody was to be sung over that bassline, echoing the lyrics of the verse which may have been as they were recorded for BWPS. Lots of "may haves" in there, I know, bt it's a possibility.

Sorry for simply repeating the info - I thought I had read everybody's take on this before posting. As it is, I reached this conclusion independently, so maybe there's something to this  ;D


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: mammy blue on November 13, 2011, 08:23:51 PM
It's not really the same melody as the descending bassline though. Try fitting it on top of that and let's hear if it works or not. I don't think it works at all. The lyrics used are clearly the verse lyrics.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Chris Brown on November 13, 2011, 11:40:36 PM
It's not really the same melody as the descending bassline though. Try fitting it on top of that and let's hear if it works or not. I don't think it works at all. The lyrics used are clearly the verse lyrics.

You're right, it's the rhythm that's the same - the melody is quite different.  Still, it wasn't an uncommon thing for Brian to have a vocal melody "echoed" later in the instrumental arrangement, even in a subtle way like this would have been, so I don't doubt that there's some relation.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: XXXCD on November 14, 2011, 01:50:25 PM
Just a note to say that the lyrics of Worms are authentic 1967 vintage- the Sandwich isles and East/West Indies lyrics were published in a book I read in the early 1990s (long before the 2004 Brian Wilson version of the song). I'm convinced the 1967 control booth singing is a better clue to the real melody however.

I suspect that there were a a few more lyrics as well- plus some more vocal overdubs. I'm sure the whole thing would have been smoother and flowed better as well. Its like looking at a half-finished building. All we can see is the framework and a few finished pieces.

It would have been a fantastic track (and indeed album) . Very sad that we will never hear the "real" DYLW.

I also see the link between Worms and Cabinessence by the way (another track that wasn't finished in 1967 and alternative lyrics exist for).


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: doinnothin on November 15, 2011, 11:32:46 PM
I think the new melody is actually something we've heard before.
Vigotone 110/111: Disc 1 Track 25 0:26.

That vocal appears to be missing along with some others towards the end. Wonder what happened.

Thoughts?


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: XXXCD on November 17, 2011, 02:38:53 PM
I think the new melody is actually something we've heard before.
Vigotone 110/111: Disc 1 Track 25 0:26.

That vocal appears to be missing along with some others towards the end. Wonder what happened.

Thoughts?

Does anyone have a link to this album (or just that track) ?


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Been Too Long on November 17, 2011, 03:17:04 PM
I think the new melody is actually something we've heard before.
Vigotone 110/111: Disc 1 Track 25 0:26.

That vocal appears to be missing along with some others towards the end. Wonder what happened.

Thoughts?

Does anyone have a link to this album (or just that track) ?

THIS IS NOT THE BEACH BOYS

This is a cover version by an LA group called Ant Bee, made up of several ex-members of the Mothers of Invention. Their version was played on a radio show in the 1990’s, recorded off of this radio show and included by mistake on several bootlegs, specifically the Vigotone 2 disc set.

THIS IS NOT THE BEACH BOYS

Here is that version, combined with a newer recording of barnyard, also by Ant Bee.

http://www.ant-bee.com/barnyard.htm


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Micha on November 17, 2011, 10:28:54 PM
I also see the link between Worms and Cabinessence by the way (another track that wasn't finished in 1967 and alternative lyrics exist for).

The chords for the iron horse section of CE and for the verse section of DYLW both are F and Bb. For fun I once inserted the whole DYLW up to the winding down section (but without the fade) between the second chorus and the fade of CE. The transition worked extremely well!


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: XXXCD on November 19, 2011, 10:41:10 AM
Thanks for the link to Vigotone 110/111 (Track 25).

As you say, this is not the Beach Boys (pretty cool cover version though...but shame about the quality).

So Brian's control booth singing in the 2011 realease IS the only known example of this "new" Worms melody then ???


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on November 19, 2011, 05:56:34 PM


So Brian's control booth singing in the 2011 realease IS the only known example of this "new" Worms melody then ???

It's the only known example of any melody for that part from that era.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Phoenix on January 06, 2012, 11:39:26 AM
I just put the control room melody to the track.  (It's an absolute perfect fit.)  Somebody wanna give me a crash course in uploading it somewhere for opinions?


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: runnersdialzero on January 07, 2012, 06:10:39 PM
I just put the control room melody to the track.  (It's an absolute perfect fit.)  Somebody wanna give me a crash course in uploading it somewhere for opinions?

It's been done a thousand times before, hate to say. Should be evident to anyone by now that he wasn't just dicking around and had some kind of intent with this, at least at some point in time.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: mammy blue on January 07, 2012, 09:30:55 PM
The "vintage melody" has been in my tweaked disc 1 mix for months now. In a way,  it may be the greatest revelation in the whole set (well, that or the new Child chorus variation), but a number of folks seem to think he was just dicking around. I don't agree; the Hawaiian verse concept totally works with it in there now, but it's just a shame that he trailed off halfway through the melody line. Better than nothing, I guess...


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Phoenix on January 08, 2012, 09:54:54 AM
I just put the control room melody to the track.  (It's an absolute perfect fit.)  Somebody wanna give me a crash course in uploading it somewhere for opinions?

It's been done a thousand times before, hate to say. Should be evident to anyone by now that he wasn't just dicking around and had some kind of intent with this, at least at some point in time.


Sorry.  That was way more vague than it should have been.  

I actually synced up two different versions: One with the line doubled during the verse, to show what the melody (obviously with different lyrics each time) would have sounded like over the full verse, and a second with the line set against the BWPS version (still twice, in a different place the second time) to explore the call-and-answer/multiple melodies avenue.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Phoenix on January 08, 2012, 09:58:58 AM
The "vintage melody" has been in my tweaked disc 1 mix for months now. In a way,  it may be the greatest revelation in the whole set (well, that or the new Child chorus variation), but a number of folks seem to think he was just dicking around. I don't agree; the Hawaiian verse concept totally works with it in there now, but it's just a shame that he trailed off halfway through the melody line. Better than nothing, I guess...

I totally agree on all those points.  Amazing revelation.  Just wish he would have remembered that bit in 2004!


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Phoenix on January 28, 2012, 06:29:45 AM

I actually synced up two different versions: One with the line doubled during the verse, to show what the melody (obviously with different lyrics each time) would have sounded like over the full verse, and a second with the line set against the BWPS version (still twice, in a different place the second time) to explore the call-and-answer/multiple melodies avenue.


Thanks to Hypehat's help, I uploaded the two songs.  Questions?  Thoughts?

http://www.mediafire.com/?jhz7t9q1o7g53mb

http://www.mediafire.com/?dztw18x2sazl1qb


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Mac the Hat on January 29, 2012, 02:11:37 AM
Well that just works a treat, top work fella. 


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Jason Penick on January 29, 2012, 05:06:08 PM
the moment i heard this, i thought, if you follow the timing he sings "once upon the sandwich isles..." you can sing that melody with the rest of the words right through to upon hawaii all in the first line. Drawing out "upon hawaii" and singing it the exact same way they do in BWPS. maybe thats something he remembered in 2004? just start singing the moment the music starts and it works perfectly, isn't rushed and totally in keeping with his descending vocals as per heroes and villains, so it's not even a stretch of an idea that it may have gone like this. of course, who knows?

i think the fact he calls out to van to check and then sings is significant. it's like he's looking for agreement, so strengthens the case to me that he's singing a genuine melody, rather than made up on the spot!?!

Just my opinion, but I think there's a 99.9999% chance that you are totally correct about this.

It took me a few read-throughs of your post, combined with a couple of listens to the vintage melody to get what you were saying, but now I am almost entirely convinced that what we're hearing on the box set, *is* the real "Worms" vocal melody, when combined with the "upon Hawaii" part from RPR.  It simply sounds too good (and too much like vintage BW) to be otherwise.

I'm starting to think now that if "Worms" had been completed with this vocal melody in place, it would have been one of the stand out tracks on SMiLE.  I always wondered why Al called this song "probably the best thing we've ever did", but now it all makes sense!  Great find.



Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Phoenix on January 29, 2012, 08:20:51 PM
Well that just works a treat, top work fella. 


Thanks!


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: hypehat on January 30, 2012, 09:18:18 AM
Yeah, sounds good! Sad that we'll never hear that melody in full....  :'(


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Aegir on January 30, 2012, 11:04:17 PM
does someone with a good voice want to sing over the track using this melody?


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: robertgotshall on February 01, 2012, 12:44:11 AM
the moment i heard this, i thought, if you follow the timing he sings "once upon the sandwich isles..." you can sing that melody with the rest of the words right through to upon hawaii all in the first line. Drawing out "upon hawaii" and singing it the exact same way they do in BWPS. maybe thats something he remembered in 2004? just start singing the moment the music starts and it works perfectly, isn't rushed and totally in keeping with his descending vocals as per heroes and villains, so it's not even a stretch of an idea that it may have gone like this. of course, who knows?

i think the fact he calls out to van to check and then sings is significant. it's like he's looking for agreement, so strengthens the case to me that he's singing a genuine melody, rather than made up on the spot!?!
That does sound cool, but that would leave us two lines short, as you can easily fit both lines from 2004 into this new melody in the time it takes to sing one line the 2004 way. Correct?


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Phoenix on February 01, 2012, 05:51:58 AM
Did you listen to the files I posted?  They show how Brian may have intended to use that melody (with different lyrics each time, obviously).


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: adam78 on February 05, 2012, 01:32:33 AM
the moment i heard this, i thought, if you follow the timing he sings "once upon the sandwich isles..." you can sing that melody with the rest of the words right through to upon hawaii all in the first line. Drawing out "upon hawaii" and singing it the exact same way they do in BWPS. maybe thats something he remembered in 2004? just start singing the moment the music starts and it works perfectly, isn't rushed and totally in keeping with his descending vocals as per heroes and villains, so it's not even a stretch of an idea that it may have gone like this. of course, who knows?

i think the fact he calls out to van to check and then sings is significant. it's like he's looking for agreement, so strengthens the case to me that he's singing a genuine melody, rather than made up on the spot!?!
That does sound cool, but that would leave us two lines short, as you can easily fit both lines from 2004 into this new melody in the time it takes to sing one line the 2004 way. Correct?

There were vintage lyrics that went unused for this song in 2004 which only strengthens the idea that a melody with more words was an intention.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Micha on February 16, 2012, 01:29:14 AM
I guess the unused lyrics "Having returned to the East or West Indies, we always got them confused" were supposed to go over the winding down harpsichord part. I even have an idea how the melody might have been.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Disney Boy (1985) on February 22, 2012, 12:31:56 PM
DYLW shouldn't be a great track - it's so disjointed, it's most prominent section is just a retread of the H&V theme, it's blatantly incomplete - and yet I absolutely LOVE IT! I can just listen to it over and over again, and in fact I am doing just that right now as i type this. It's just a spellbinding track - odd, experimental, Brian at his best. So many different sections and each one fantastic.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Micha on March 15, 2012, 11:58:58 PM
it's most prominent section is just a retread of the H&V theme,

Actually it is the other way around: The H&V chorus is just a retread of the Bicycle Rider section of DYLW.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Disney Boy (1985) on April 26, 2012, 03:32:35 PM
Well it's such a fabulous melody it doesn't really matter which way round it is...


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Orange Crate Art on August 21, 2013, 03:11:16 PM
God, I absolutely love the bass in this song. The entire piece is stunning! I'm so used to hearing my old bootleg version of DYLW with a cough in it that I still expect to hear it. Love the chanting, love the happy trippy feel of the song. It's definitely my favorite side of Brian's writing.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: bluesno1fann on September 22, 2013, 10:55:06 PM
Along with "Surf's Up", it's my favourite song off the Smile Sessions!
Very Psychecelic in my opinion


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on January 16, 2015, 10:18:31 PM
I think some of you being so harsh on those who consider Brian's sung melody the new definitive arent being fair. Seriously, why would he just sing some bit of bullshit that he had no intention of following up on? Count me as another who thinks the BWPS vocals are boring and dreary and that the original would have been far more intricate.

The ribbon of concrete vocals are certainly definitive 1966, and speaking of those, I think they and the Bicycle Rider vocals would have been overlaid on the piano but before the "boo-da-bah" vocals come in. Thats the way I've done it in my Aquarian and Olorin mixes, and I just believe it sounds right that way. I have no solid proof that was Brian's plan though.

Fascinating stuff, this idea that the East/West Indies vocal were to come over the piano fade. I like that idea.

I agree the woo-oohs are an absolutely atrocious and unnecessary addition. It's extremely noticeable that they just came in H&V and it just sounds lazy and stupid. I didn't like them in BWPS either, but at least there it was a way to transition into the next song. Again, I'm not sure why Mark and Alan labored so hard under this misguided delusion that every transition from BWPS had to be recreated no matter how awful they sounded.

This, like CIFOTM, I consider one of the least finished SMiLE tracks but also one with the most potential. If we had all the lyrics, I really think it would be an incredible, poignant piece of art.

I dont buy into this idea of Holidays being Worms. Seems like a pretty forced connection, IMHO, and the two sound so different in tone I really just dont buy it. Would such a heartbreaking look at the pillaging and desolation of a civilization really be played over a happy track like Holidays? I doubt it. 


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: runnersdialzero on January 16, 2015, 11:23:15 PM

The ribbon of concrete vocals are certainly definitive 1966, and speaking of those, I think they and the Bicycle Rider vocals would have been overlaid on the piano but before the "boo-da-bah" vocals come in. Thats the way I've done it in my Aquarian and Olorin mixes, and I just believe it sounds right that way. I have no solid proof that was Brian's plan though.

I don't understand what the "boo-da-bah" vocals are + the vocals were recorded as they are on TSS back in '66, right where they are, thus they couldn't have been "overlaid" elsewhere.

WAT IS BOO-DA-BAH :'(


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on January 17, 2015, 12:15:44 AM

The ribbon of concrete vocals are certainly definitive 1966, and speaking of those, I think they and the Bicycle Rider vocals would have been overlaid on the piano but before the "boo-da-bah" vocals come in. Thats the way I've done it in my Aquarian and Olorin mixes, and I just believe it sounds right that way. I have no solid proof that was Brian's plan though.

I don't understand what the "boo-da-bah" vocals are + the vocals were recorded as they are on TSS back in '66, right where they are, thus they couldn't have been "overlaid" elsewhere.

WAT IS BOO-DA-BAH :'(

Ah. Well then, nevermind. I still think it sounds nice done that way though.

The vocals that are played over the first Bicycle Rider chorus on the TSS version of the song.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Sam_BFC on January 21, 2015, 12:30:29 PM
The tribal-like American Indian chant vocals?


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Mr. Cohen on January 22, 2015, 09:31:05 AM
Quote from: runners
WAT IS BOO-DA-BAH
The background vocals in the verse. It's in the second verse in TSS.  Some BBs fan you are, lol


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: runnersdialzero on January 22, 2015, 01:20:08 PM
Quote from: runners
WAT IS BOO-DA-BAH
The background vocals in the verse. It's in the second verse in TSS.  Some BBs fan you are, lol

r u kidding or what


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Mr. Cohen on January 22, 2015, 02:53:08 PM
Oh come on, I've owned a Boo Da Bah t-shirt for a few years now. It's Mike smiling with the words Boo Da Bah under it.  What, do you live under a rock?


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on January 23, 2015, 02:01:59 PM
Quote from: runners
WAT IS BOO-DA-BAH
The background vocals in the verse. It's in the second verse in TSS.  Some BBs fan you are, lol

No, that's the "la la" vocals. I'm talking about the ones in the first chorus.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: thewillwiggins on January 23, 2015, 07:37:53 PM
I have been enjoying listening to fan edits and mixes of the SMiLE material.  I was playing around with DYLW, and I incorporated the vocal from With Me Tonight (Smiley Smile) over the verse of DYLW.  this is a snippet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de2uEm1Id3Y


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Mike Garneau on January 23, 2015, 07:42:18 PM
I have been enjoying listening to fan edits and mixes of the SMiLE material.  I was playing around with DYLW, and I incorporated the vocal from With Me Tonight (Smiley Smile) over the verse of DYLW.  this is a snippet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de2uEm1Id3Y


Very cool! I love the way it fills up that particular section of DYLW. I'm gonna have this stuck in my head for the rest of the day now.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Mr. Cohen on January 24, 2015, 08:11:26 AM
Quote from: Mujan
No, that's the "la la" vocals. I'm talking about the ones in the first chorus.
That's "Fake Boo Da Bah", actually.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Wrightfan on June 20, 2015, 01:55:37 PM
Anyone else notice that someone is singing "hum be do da, hum be da da" in the first verse that DOESN'T have the vocals? It's very faint but my ear just picked it up today. Almost sounds like a guide.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on June 24, 2015, 11:46:09 PM
Anyone else notice that someone is singing "hum be do da, hum be da da" in the first verse that DOESN'T have the vocals? It's very faint but my ear just picked it up today. Almost sounds like a guide.

Im afraid I never have. Very interesting tho, like the hidden clarinet in Look.

Even in the unfinished state we have, SMiLE is maybe the best body of music ever recorded. And yet little discoveries like this show how incomplete it still is. The people who disparage it, say it's not as good as Pet Sounds or Sgt Pepper, I really think would feel differently if they could hear the completed thing. Someone once said, it would be like hearing God Only Knows with just Brian on the piano for years and then suddenly hearing the fully-realized track for the first time. Hearing the bare bones is nice, and you'd think "hmm...thats a very pretty song." But when you hear the real thing, with all its complexities, intricate backing vocals and various instruments working together...its genius becomes undeniably apparent. Suddenly, anyone who maybe wasnt too impressed with just the basic track would have to admit "that's a work of genius!"


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Mr. Verlander on June 27, 2015, 06:03:16 AM
I've said it before; The Beatles are my all time favorite band, hands down. And yet, SMiLE is the best music that I've ever heard.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on June 27, 2015, 11:11:51 AM
I've said it before; The Beatles are my all time favorite band, hands down. And yet, SMiLE is the best music that I've ever heard.
I assume The Beach Boys are your 2nd favorite band, then, on merits of Smile? :police:


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: ForHerCryingSoul on June 27, 2015, 11:26:13 AM
I've said it before; The Beatles are my all time favorite band, hands down. And yet, SMiLE is the best music that I've ever heard.
+1


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on July 23, 2015, 08:17:04 PM
I've said it before; The Beatles are my all time favorite band, hands down. And yet, SMiLE is the best music that I've ever heard.

+2


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Nile on July 28, 2015, 11:16:33 PM
Iīm a little bored with this CFM domination on this board (though I think itīs one of four best songs on Smile, others HV, SU, CE :)), so let me ask one question:

Why there isnīt a good, clean quality copy of an Bicycle rider acetate that appears on H & V Sessions, vol 2, track 28?? I LOVE THAT KICK DRUM!!!


AAAEEERGHHHHH.....


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on July 29, 2015, 02:08:32 AM
Iīm a little bored with this CFM domination on this board (though I think itīs one of four best songs on Smile, others HV, SU, CE :)), so let me ask one question:

Why there isnīt a good, clean quality copy of an Bicycle rider acetate that appears on H & V Sessions, vol 2, track 28?? I LOVE THAT KICK DRUM!!!


AAAEEERGHHHHH.....

Because it's an acetate, pure and simple.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Nile on July 29, 2015, 05:41:45 AM
Iīm a little bored with this CFM domination on this board (though I think itīs one of four best songs on Smile, others HV, SU, CE :)), so let me ask one question:

Why there isnīt a good, clean quality copy of an Bicycle rider acetate that appears on H & V Sessions, vol 2, track 28?? I LOVE THAT KICK DRUM!!!


AAAEEERGHHHHH.....

Because it's an acetate, pure and simple.

Well that much I figured!  ::)
But is this mix only available on this acetate, simply cause it was erased at the time??
My other question was and is why isnīt possible to reconstruct?? Someone call masters of Smile mix to rescue! Krabklaw, Seltaeb1012002....Please help!!


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Paul2010 on August 10, 2015, 10:37:38 PM
Iīm a little bored with this CFM domination on this board (though I think itīs one of four best songs on Smile, others HV, SU, CE :)), so let me ask one question:

Why there isnīt a good, clean quality copy of an Bicycle rider acetate that appears on H & V Sessions, vol 2, track 28?? I LOVE THAT KICK DRUM!!!


AAAEEERGHHHHH.....

Because it's an acetate, pure and simple.

Well that much I figured!  ::)
But is this mix only available on this acetate, simply cause it was erased at the time??
My other question was and is why isnīt possible to reconstruct?? Someone call masters of Smile mix to rescue! Krabklaw, Seltaeb1012002....Please help!!

Well, there is a simple solution! I listened to some outtakes and if you may have the UM17 set, go to disc 1 track 20 and only listen to the right channel...the left has some new vocal overdubs, but the basic take is definitely in there.


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: silodweller on October 07, 2015, 05:12:09 AM
Hm, for all the buzz around the box set and for the work put into Disc One, I still prefer listening to the version of "Do You Like Worms" found on the 30 Years of The Beach Boys box set.  Yes, the "Bicycle Rider, just see what you've done..." bit hadn't been inserted and the "bend" in the vocals during the second verse is in your face, but you know what?  I think it's awesome!  The bass guitar just after the Hawaiian "chant" sounds great.  Somehow the oomph of the bass during that little section is lacking low end on the Smile Sessions. 


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Nile on October 09, 2015, 04:43:19 AM
Iīm a little bored with this CFM domination on this board (though I think itīs one of four best songs on Smile, others HV, SU, CE :)), so let me ask one question:

Why there isnīt a good, clean quality copy of an Bicycle rider acetate that appears on H & V Sessions, vol 2, track 28?? I LOVE THAT KICK DRUM!!!


AAAEEERGHHHHH.....

Because it's an acetate, pure and simple.

Well that much I figured!  ::)
But is this mix only available on this acetate, simply cause it was erased at the time??
My other question was and is why isnīt possible to reconstruct?? Someone call masters of Smile mix to rescue! Krabklaw, Seltaeb1012002....Please help!!
Well, there is a simple solution! I listened to some outtakes and if you may have the UM17 set, go to disc 1 track 20 and only listen to the right channel...the left has some new vocal overdubs, but the basic take is definitely in there.

I took your advice, listened to UM17, disc 1, track 20 and didn't "feel" that kick drum!
Listen to Preiss tape, track 3 or H&V sessions vol.2, track 28 and you'll see it is very strong on that acetates, but barely audible on UM17...
Can someone please make some kind of witchcraft and create this mix listenable??


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: The Old Master Painter on November 05, 2015, 03:55:40 PM
EQ it maybe?


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Nile on November 05, 2015, 11:18:18 PM
EQ it maybe?

I'm not up to the task of EQin' it! ;D
Maybe someone can help?? ???


Title: Re: TSS - All things DYLW
Post by: Ptolemaios on March 22, 2021, 07:15:49 AM
I am very saddened we still don't have a clear picture of what this song was supposed to be back in the day. Such a great piece of art.

Has anyone ever tried actually asking Al, Bruce or Mike: "Hey, that song Do you like worms? from Smile. Do you happen to remember the melodies of the missing vocal tracks for it? And if so, would you mind sometime giving us fans a real gift and record yourself singing it and post it on your Youtube channel? Thanks."

Someone maybe ask this question in a fan Q & A sometime or some of you more connected fans on this board maybe ask through the people who sometimes visit here and who have a direct connection(s) to the band. . .?