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Author Topic: Feel Flows box set  (Read 407665 times)
rab2591
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« Reply #1300 on: September 03, 2020, 06:00:33 AM »

I just shared it to my beach boys instagram profile that has 3,700 followers. Hopefully we’ll get some more signatures!!!

Give a follow if you’re on Instagram, thanks!! https://www.instagram.com/p/CEpyOzese49/?igshid=j0ht951u3olc

I frequently have Carnie Wilson and Al’s verified account like and comment on my posts, so maybe this will gain some traction!

Thanks so much! 74 people signed it since you made that post. We're now at 1,120 fans who want Feel Flows released.
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« Reply #1301 on: September 03, 2020, 07:26:00 AM »

Radio Silence on the EH board... Roll Eyes
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« Reply #1302 on: September 03, 2020, 08:06:12 AM »

Radio Silence on the EH board... Roll Eyes

Or as the jocks say, Dead Air.
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« Reply #1303 on: September 03, 2020, 09:22:18 AM »

With more people learning about the set and wondering if it's this or that holding it up, or that there has never been an announcement, so maybe it doesn't exist/is still being worked on, etc, and since the thread is almost a year old and 53 pages, I thought a gathering up of the statements (some secondhand) from those close to the project/in the know, and from others on various forums, was in order. Message me if I miss/mess anything up and I'll edit.



November 17, 2019 on the Steve Hoffman Forums, the post that started this thread, user tingly said:

"Al Jardine said today that there is a great box set that they're working on. Its working title is Feel Flows. Contents are Sunflower, Surfs Up, and an unreleased live recording of which he has no memory doing. He didn't say what concert, physical/download, if it's certain for release, possible release date, whether remastered, if there are outtakes,..."

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-beach-boys-sunflower-50th.874231/page-7#post-22567080



December 4, 2019 Fred Vail @ RCA Studio B on YouTube channel Big Hippo Music In Country Music We Trust, previewing "All For The Love Of A Girl" said:

"The Beach Boys, they're going to be doing an outtake album of songs they recorded in '69 and '70, next year for Capitol. It'll be the 50th anniversary of Sunflower, one of their big albums, and they decided that they might want to put a Fred Vail track on it, because it was recorded in April of 1970 when we were doing Sunflower, the Beach Boy album".

https://youtu.be/Ng3b4NbKvv8?t=140



December 9, 2019 (1) and later on July 29, 2020 (2) reddit. May have since been edited, (1) theclaptonfan, relaying info from (2) HellaciousMedic said:

(1) "They said they were getting Sunflower and Surf’s Up signed and Bruce mentioned new material from those albums will be coming out in February next year."

(2) "When I talked with Bruce at a VIP meet back in November he said it was gonna come out around February of this year, and when I got the chance to talk with him again on one of the Michale Graves VIP web conferences he said it is still coming out. It's good to know that it is all done and ready though even though it doesn't have a confirmed release date."

https://www.reddit.com/r/thebeachboys/comments/e8aogh/heres_what_we_know_about_the_sunflower_sessions/fad0388?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

https://www.reddit.com/r/thebeachboys/comments/i092yu/more_on_the_feel_flows_set/fzo35b8?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3



February 3, 2020 Safari Club kerfuffle. Brian and Al support boycott. BB play the show on February 6th, 2020 anyway.



February 21, 2020 reddit, roffels said:

"I met Bruce Johnston briefly before the Beach Boys recent Orlando show, he said expect a summer Sunflower release."

https://www.reddit.com/r/thebeachboys/comments/e8aogh/heres_what_we_know_about_the_sunflower_sessions/ficahmc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3



February 22, 2020 EH Board, saltymarshmallow said:

"Amazed this hasn't gotten around yet, but about a month ago someone on the Discord server spoke to Garry Griffin and Clint Boire (Brian's sound guy) backstage and they said a 5 CD set featuring Sunflower material is coming later this year, probably in Summer. And apparently Al's been listening to stuff on the tour bus."

https://endlessharmony.boards.net/post/19712/thread



February 26, 2020 Mark Linett YouTube livestream @ Sunset Sound, channel Produce Like A Pro, sampling new mixes of San Miguel and Cottonfields, when asked when they were coming out said:

"I hope this fall. We're waiting on a release date. It's a large project, so it takes a bit of...bit of finesse to get it all done and approved, yeah. But we're still working on it."

https://youtu.be/prFdy74TyuA?t=13134



April 30, 2020 EH Board, jiggy22 said:

"Heard today from "a guy that knows a guy" that the set is currently stalling due to what was described as "internal conflicts"".

https://endlessharmony.boards.net/post/22381/thread



May 26, 2020 ESQ, the Beach Boys Publication of Record, releases the Sunflower 50th Issue. In its News and Notes:

"A five-disc Feel Flows boxed set, focusing on sessions from 1969 through 1971 is in the works"

https://esquarterly.com/esq-store/summer-2020-issue-130-sunflower-50th-anniversary-edition/



June 10 2020, ESQ on FB:

"Some BIG Beach Boys news coming soon!"

https://www.facebook.com/ESQEditor/posts/10158263240917487



June 16, 2020

I promise you -- you WILL NOT be disappointed.
It exceeds every expectation.



June 19, 2020

I gotta say re: Bruce. While doing the liners for the upcoming box set, we did a nearly three-hour interview. To ME -- he was the MVP. Amazing recall. Was able to put it in razor sharp perspective and proved that he's actually thought long and hard about this music. I wish we could use it all -- because he went far deeper than ever on this era, discussing at length what made this band tick during those years. He went full out. Pulled no punches.

Brian also went hardcore on the '69-'71 era in a way he hasn't anywhere else.
Depending on the day, the dude remembers -- him discussing the genesis "Marcella" was a pinch-me moment.

I CANNOT wait for you all to hear this thing. It kills me that you haven't already.



July 1, 2020 superdeluxeedition Phil Cohen says an issue that may delay many upcoming releases, including Feel Flows is:

"the fabricating and printing of the packaging elements that are typical of major label boxed sets...the closing of many mastering facilities, and the millions of unemployed consumers who won’t be able to afford the products."



July 13, 2020

Packaging delays are not what's holding this up.



July 27, 2020

FEEL FLOWS

Completed.
Liners.
Tracklisting.
Artwork.
Mixed.
Mastered.

Heaven on Earth.
I wish you all had it in your ears.
It was the greatest labor of love.
It's what the world needs now.

And y'know what???
With the Peter Jackson thing on ice for a year -- the BB's (finally) would get ALL the attention, ALL the dough, and ALL the love.



July 28 2020

I can PERSONALLY guarantee you that whatever "tease" ESQ was hawking has absolutely nothing to do with the project we've been working on for the past few years.  

This is an entirely different level/pay grade than that.



July 29 2020

I dropped by to help answer some of the questions re: the project, because there's some confusion as to whether it does exist, if it's coming out, etc.

It definitely DOES exist. It definitely IS completed. It definitely is named FEEL FLOWS.

Both Jardine and Johnston have spoken publicly about it.

Linett, Boyd, and I worked on it for 2 years.
Those two put the whole f ucking thing together.
Hours and hours and hours and hours.

As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.

It's incredible.
It forever changes the way The Beach Boys will be viewed as musical entity at the turn of the decade.
It's THAT good. It's THAT important.

It is currently NOT scheduled for release.




July 29, 2020

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.



July 30, 2020 superdeluxedition Bruce Kelso says:

"ok phil and everyone. here is the lowdown on why its being delayed/ canceled. there seems to be issues of legality and the final song selection =.the reason being that there were so many different writers of songs at that time.sooo we well have to wait…… and wait …. and wait."

https://www.superdeluxeedition.com/get-in-touch/#comment-1630126



August 13, 2020 Mike Love on YouTube podcast Paltrocast with Darren Paltrowitz, in regards to previous archival releases and what's to come:

DP "is there lots and lots more in the vault that we can one day hope to hear?"

ML "Well, I don't know how much there is in the vault, but I'll tell you this, we're coming up on the 60th anniversary of the group in another year or so, and that warrants something special, that's for sure, and so, I've got some ideas on that, but little too early to talk about it, but I think there will be opportunities to come up with compilations and, as you say, archival, but also new renditions with other artists and stuff, of many of our songs, and that'll be a lot of fun to do, and I think, I'm looking forward to what the future may bring."

https://youtu.be/OWz7Stun-KI?t=532



August 16, 2020 Steve Hoffman Forums, user pool_of_tears, in reply to a post noting the delay has nothing to do with the content, said:

"Oh, I know Smiley I’ve heard the reason and my lips are sealed"

"I was told by someone who is truly "in the know", and I have to respect the source...as my mother used to say: mums the word. As it's been said here, the set is done. It's like having rounded third and heading for home...getting ready to sldie into the catcher's feet and knock him off balance, but instead getting caught in a pickle."

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-beach-boys-sunflower-50th.874231/page-34#post-24718885
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-beach-boys-sunflower-50th.874231/page-34#post-24720399



August 22, 2020

CD, all great points...especially about this being the first post Capitol years release.

It was shared on the EH forum that someone from supedeluxeedition wrote:

"ok phil and everyone. here is the lowdown on why its being delayed/ canceled. there seems to be issues of legality and the final song selection =.the reason being that there were so many different writers of songs at that time.sooo we well have to wait…… and wait …. and wait."

Though as was pointed out, the "final song selection" problem would go against what Howie said about the track listing being already completed. So who knows.
Howie knows. You do not have to wonder about that. No speculation needed. All the other "maybe it's this, or maybe it's that" chatter is useless. Take what Howie said as direct and solid information.



August 30, 2020

Brian's FB posts on the 49th anniversary of the release of Surf's Up, touting it as a group effort and running through the tracks each member contributed, save for one. The Beach Boys page links to places to stream the album.

https://www.facebook.com/officialbrianwilson/posts/10159310418277241



August 31, 2020

Sunflower 50th. No announcements. Brian's FB posts on the 50th anniversary of the release of Sunflower. Shared by The Beach Boys page. The Beach Boys page also shared ESQ's Sunflower 50th Issue post. Al's anniversary post features a video of All I Wanna Do, and Fred Vail posts on Sunflower's anniversary with an interview video he did discussing it. Mike's website and social media have been inactive since around the 4th of July.

In response to a query about the track "All For The Love Of a Girl" that Fred Vail teased back in December and when it might come out, Fred said:

"considering doing a “crowd fund” to complete it—-lots of overdubs and mixing—approximately 10 more songs"

And although people here and on other forums have speculated that a unanimous vote is required for unreleased BRI material, ESQ, in response to the Sunflower Issue tease, and voting speculation said:

"we did what we could with the information we had." and "but majority wins the day. I think there’s a bit more going on that."

https://www.facebook.com/fred.vail.7/posts/10224010333663118

https://www.facebook.com/thebeachboys/posts/10158603915874140



September 17, 2020

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.







September 26, 2020

The amount of unreleased and alternate material assembled is major -- beautiful work from ALL members of the group. Everyone shines on this thing. It's Abbey Road-Beach Boys -- and would ABSOLUTELY be lauded for being just that.

The current assembly features a good 25 minutes of Dennis Wilson's POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA material -- to lose that would truly be a sin (and, obviously, a colossal sales deterrent.)
I know from my liners alone -- drawing from both new interviews and others culled from chats with the band on this material over the past 15 years -- the story of this era breathes new life into the brand.

Knowing from you all what EVERYBODY wants from this collection -- I really can't see how this set could be improved, if altered.






September 27, 2020

Just to be clear, the holdup over this box set is NOT "because of the Dennis Wilson material."

That is NOT why the project isn't out.

That said, the killer sh*t that a) you really want and b) will solidify sales, and garner the band major serious press for this era (barring a fetish fanzine) could very well be lost.

I mentioned the POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA material to underscore the brilliance and span of ALL the band on this set.

What Howie is communicating is that the set which has been meticulously curated by the right people is in danger of being revamped by what are potentially the "wrong people" (my words not his), and the Dennis Wilson material is a great example of what could be lost should this revamp occur. By sharing that the DW "solo" material is indeed included in the submitted version of the set he's revealing how truly comprehensive it would be if left as is. The alarm is that it may not be left as is.



October 12, 2020

I will say one thing, people keep citing "you said content had nothing to do with it" or Made in California or why is it being blocked etc... Take this in, the situation evolved from one place to another. You should have had the box months ago, it was blocked. That is history. Now is a DIFFERENT time in history. If you do end up getting the set, it may be missing things that were in the version that was blocked. Why is that? Because there are people who have expressed that they possibly would like to change it. The people who would like to change it are NOT the people who put together the box that you should have had months ago that was blocked. They wanted to give you something great and wonderful and inclusive. They worked hard on it and delivered. We are appalled that anyone would f*** with the formula they put together, but it's a real possibility and that is a bulletin directly from the inside. Not speculation. But as of now, i guess we're all in "we'll see" mode as things are still fluid as far as i know.



That's all I've found in terms of "official statements", insider info and relevant user posts.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 01:01:39 PM by Cork On The Ocean » Logged
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« Reply #1304 on: September 03, 2020, 09:40:06 AM »

Great post, Cork On The Ocean!
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« Reply #1305 on: September 03, 2020, 10:35:25 AM »

Clearly something happened between June 19 and July 13.

Still think an article by Rolling Stone about the incredible unreleased music (Someone would have to give then a preview) and the “revelations” the box set contains and bemoaning whatever hassles are holding it up could turn the tide and trigger a release.
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« Reply #1306 on: September 03, 2020, 11:40:11 AM »

Looking over the comment Mike made, he did acknowledge that something "archival" is indeed happening, albeit in a dismissive, almost as an afterthought kind of way.
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« Reply #1307 on: September 03, 2020, 11:46:25 AM »

So taking two quotes form the above post...Stebbins says "sometimes its a one or two man firing squad", and ESQ says that in regard to archival releases "majority rules the day." So if Mike alone cannot stop an archival release, are we left to believe that Carl's estate also does not want this released? That doesn't make sense, but logically, who is the other "no" vote?
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« Reply #1308 on: September 03, 2020, 12:51:04 PM »

Looking over the comment Mike made, he did acknowledge that something "archival" is indeed happening, albeit in a dismissive, almost as an afterthought kind of way.

I have read his statement over and over again to find where he acknowledged that something was indeed happening and I'm not finding it.

He says "I think there will be opportunities to come up with compilations and, as you say, archival, but also new renditions with other artists and stuff, of many of our songs" but this doesn't at all mean that anything is going to actually happen.

He specifically says that he "thinks" there will be "opportunities" to "come up with" archival releases. Sad thing is, Feel Flows doesn't need an opportunity to be "come up with" - it is literally finished. It is completely ready to go. So there is no way he was referring to Feel Flows - in which case his statement doesn't mean anything to this thread, other than what he clearly didn't say in that statement.

@CorkontheOcean - FANTASTIC POST (I don't even know how you found those ESQ quotes but that was awesome work). I wish posts could be stickied to the tops of pages because that post would clear up a lot of confusion that seems to enter into this thread every few days. As for ESQs thoughts on the majorative vote, I would really like to know what Guitarfool or HeyJude have to say about that. I'm not saying ESQ is wrong, but if they are right then that opens a whole slew of unbelievable scenarios.

So taking two quotes form the above post...Stebbins says "sometimes its a one or two man firing squad", and ESQ says that in regard to archival releases "majority rules the day." So if Mike alone cannot stop an archival release, are we left to believe that Carl's estate also does not want this released? That doesn't make sense, but logically, who is the other "no" vote?

Yeah. Really hoping those ESQ quotes can be deciphered some. "but majority wins the day. I think there’s a bit more going on that." What does that last sentence even mean?
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« Reply #1309 on: September 03, 2020, 01:09:49 PM »

While I of course cannot say for certain, I suspect ESQ is *not* aware of what's going on behind the scenes, at least anywhere near the full story.

Also, and this is 100% just my own opinion, if they *did* have the full story, they would *not* report it. I say this only because in the past they've passed on reporting on far less inflammatory/sensitive issues regarding the internal politics of the band and their corporation.

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« Reply #1310 on: September 03, 2020, 01:17:30 PM »


@CorkontheOcean - FANTASTIC POST (I don't even know how you found those ESQ quotes but that was awesome work). I wish posts could be stickied to the tops of pages because that post would clear up a lot of confusion that seems to enter into this thread every few days. As for ESQs thoughts on the majorative vote, I would really like to know what Guitarfool or HeyJude have to say about that. I'm not saying ESQ is wrong, but if they are right then that opens a whole slew of unbelievable scenarios.

I don't know of any scenario that I've heard described where a unanimous vote is required at BRI. They work on a majority vote for everything I've heard about. I don't believe there are different rules for archival releases.

The only thing to note concerning hits packages vs. archival releases is that Capitol can put out compilations of previously released material that they own (meaning mainly of course 60s material) without BRI approval. This explains the zillion hits compilations over the years. Any previously unreleased 60s material has to be okayed by BRI to be released, and of course after that BRI owns most of the tapes themselves.

Mike described in an interview in the last few years how the other three BRI voters said yes to the "Love & Mercy" soundtrack and it went ahead without his vote.

If you dig through those old BRI vs. Al Jardine lawsuits from years ago, you'll see a few references to BRI votes, and they describe non-unanimous votes as well.

I have no reason to believe "Feel Flows" could be delayed by a single BRI voter. Or a better way to look at it is that I don't know of a scenario where a "3 to 1" vote to release the set could be blocked (apart from lawsuits/temporary injunction sort of situations, and I have no reason to believe anything like that is happening with "Feel Flows.)
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« Reply #1311 on: September 03, 2020, 01:42:05 PM »


@CorkontheOcean - FANTASTIC POST (I don't even know how you found those ESQ quotes but that was awesome work). I wish posts could be stickied to the tops of pages because that post would clear up a lot of confusion that seems to enter into this thread every few days. As for ESQs thoughts on the majorative vote, I would really like to know what Guitarfool or HeyJude have to say about that. I'm not saying ESQ is wrong, but if they are right then that opens a whole slew of unbelievable scenarios.

I don't know of any scenario that I've heard described where a unanimous vote is required at BRI. They work on a majority vote for everything I've heard about. I don't believe there are different rules for archival releases.

The only thing to note concerning hits packages vs. archival releases is that Capitol can put out compilations of previously released material that they own (meaning mainly of course 60s material) without BRI approval. This explains the zillion hits compilations over the years. Any previously unreleased 60s material has to be okayed by BRI to be released, and of course after that BRI owns most of the tapes themselves.

Mike described in an interview in the last few years how the other three BRI voters said yes to the "Love & Mercy" soundtrack and it went ahead without his vote.

If you dig through those old BRI vs. Al Jardine lawsuits from years ago, you'll see a few references to BRI votes, and they describe non-unanimous votes as well.

I have no reason to believe "Feel Flows" could be delayed by a single BRI voter. Or a better way to look at it is that I don't know of a scenario where a "3 to 1" vote to release the set could be blocked (apart from lawsuits/temporary injunction sort of situations, and I have no reason to believe anything like that is happening with "Feel Flows.)

So as of now there are at least 2 votes saying no, which is why it isn't being released, correct? 

I have been pretty excited about working to get people to sign the petition, but am now starting to just be frustrated that no announcements or statements from the band are occurring.  At this point I am starting to wish I didn't know about the set, so I wouldn't be disappointed.
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« Reply #1312 on: September 03, 2020, 01:47:02 PM »


@CorkontheOcean - FANTASTIC POST (I don't even know how you found those ESQ quotes but that was awesome work). I wish posts could be stickied to the tops of pages because that post would clear up a lot of confusion that seems to enter into this thread every few days. As for ESQs thoughts on the majorative vote, I would really like to know what Guitarfool or HeyJude have to say about that. I'm not saying ESQ is wrong, but if they are right then that opens a whole slew of unbelievable scenarios.

I don't know of any scenario that I've heard described where a unanimous vote is required at BRI. They work on a majority vote for everything I've heard about. I don't believe there are different rules for archival releases.

The only thing to note concerning hits packages vs. archival releases is that Capitol can put out compilations of previously released material that they own (meaning mainly of course 60s material) without BRI approval. This explains the zillion hits compilations over the years. Any previously unreleased 60s material has to be okayed by BRI to be released, and of course after that BRI owns most of the tapes themselves.

Mike described in an interview in the last few years how the other three BRI voters said yes to the "Love & Mercy" soundtrack and it went ahead without his vote.

If you dig through those old BRI vs. Al Jardine lawsuits from years ago, you'll see a few references to BRI votes, and they describe non-unanimous votes as well.

I have no reason to believe "Feel Flows" could be delayed by a single BRI voter. Or a better way to look at it is that I don't know of a scenario where a "3 to 1" vote to release the set could be blocked (apart from lawsuits/temporary injunction sort of situations, and I have no reason to believe anything like that is happening with "Feel Flows.)

Thanks so much for this. For whatever reason, this entire time I was under the impression that archival releases require a unanimous vote. What the hell is going on then?
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« Reply #1313 on: September 03, 2020, 01:51:24 PM »

Cork is my hero...
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #1314 on: September 03, 2020, 01:55:11 PM »

Looking over the comment Mike made, he did acknowledge that something "archival" is indeed happening, albeit in a dismissive, almost as an afterthought kind of way.

I have read his statement over and over again to find where he acknowledged that something was indeed happening and I'm not finding it.

He says "I think there will be opportunities to come up with compilations and, as you say, archival, but also new renditions with other artists and stuff, of many of our songs" but this doesn't at all mean that anything is going to actually happen.

He specifically says that he "thinks" there will be "opportunities" to "come up with" archival releases. Sad thing is, Feel Flows doesn't need an opportunity to be "come up with" - it is literally finished. It is completely ready to go. So there is no way he was referring to Feel Flows - in which case his statement doesn't mean anything to this thread, other than what he clearly didn't say in that statement.

Not only that, but it seems like he's just repeating the word of the interviewer to appease him and attempt to tie the answer together.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 02:00:10 PM by B.E. » Logged

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« Reply #1315 on: September 03, 2020, 02:06:21 PM »

I just caught one of the bits in that voluminous run-through above of many of the public comments about the set, and I can say that the "Bruce Kelso" and "Phil Cohen" posts at "superdeluxeedition" are not accurate in any way as far as I've been made aware.
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« Reply #1316 on: September 03, 2020, 02:17:16 PM »

It does seem convincing that conflicts over royalties could be an issue, right? E.g. Bob Burchmann who wrote the lyric for It's About Time and was pressured into signing away his publishing rights or something to that effect. Similarly, I know Greg Jakobbson cowrote Slip on Through but on most releases it's attributed to only Dennis. The Beach Boys were definitely shady with how they handled this stuff back in the day by the sound of it.

Potential legal holdups of this kind could have in turn dissuaded some members from releasing it altogether - canning it may have appeared the better option, for fear of the backlash if this were to become a public controversy i.e. that they used to screw their cowriters.
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« Reply #1317 on: September 03, 2020, 02:29:22 PM »

Cork is my hero...

I second that emotion. Thank you so much for your efforts, Cork. Bravo.

This spells things out in a very clear, easily-digestible manner. In fact, seeing things laid out in that manner could theoretically give a music journalist a blueprint on how to relativity easily write a story about this. Almost in the way those websites on the oral history of famous movies are presented. Just get some good graphics and perhaps draw some cartoon sketches or stock BBs photos, alongside this timeline, to help visualize how everything has been going down.

Literally, Cork just did some great investigative journalism, and some proper media outlet should run a story on this.

It will get clicks, shares, and generate advertising revenue.


If for no other reason that wanting to make money, a Buzzfeed, Rolling Stone, or other such site needs to run with this. This is a story that can be monetized, and in the process, bring the plight of this set to a much higher level of public attention.

This timeline is exhibit A for which Mike's dismissive non-answer is not going to cut it. Us fans are not fools, the cat has been let out of the bag. Sorry Mike. There's a whole bunch of history with this box that is clearly happening, which he doesn't want us fans to know about for some reason. To me, that can likely only mean it's not something he feels he can readily explain and get public sympathy for (ie. some typical ego-related nonsense), so essentially he's doing a passive aggressive cover-up.

Let's get a story going about this. The journalist doesn't have to opine about what's actually going on, they can literally just state the facts. I may have my own opinions, and that's all they are, opinions. I don't present them as facts.

But there's a story to be told here by a magazine or media outlet, no doubt. Even if every manager connected to the band gives a "no comment" response if asked in an official capacity, that too is part of the story.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 03:03:03 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #1318 on: September 03, 2020, 02:32:23 PM »

Thanks B.E, rab2591, SMiLE Brian, and CenturyDeprived.

I just caught one of the bits in that voluminous run-through above of many of the public comments about the set, and I can say that the "Bruce Kelso" and "Phil Cohen" posts at "superdeluxeedition" are not accurate in any way as far as I've been made aware.

Right. Since it was being heavily discussed at the time, I included it for reference, and as an example of something asked and answered, as Stebbins' August 22nd reply did.

As for the unanimous vote thing, I've seen it discussed in a few places, and implied everywhere, since many posts are pondering why one certain member would want to halt it. But if it is in fact majority, then thinking it through logically (even if logic doesn't apply to the complicated relationships as band members and as individuals), then I'd say the two least likely veto votes would be Al, who teased it and had apparently been listening to it on tour before the shutdown, and Brian who "went hardcore on the '69-'71 era" for the liners. The two vetoes leave the obvious Mike, with the history of holdups, memory-holing the era on American Family, who has been silent since the 4th of July and who sidestepped the vault question, and then Carl's estate.

I don't have the time to dig at the moment, but I recall discussions about Carl's estate voting with Mike before on things? Other than voting with him, I don't know what issues there'd be. Was it Carl and Dennis that bickered on the track list for Surf's Up, and Carl axed a bunch of Dennis' songs, or I am misremembering or simplifying it?
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« Reply #1319 on: September 03, 2020, 02:32:36 PM »

It does seem convincing that conflicts over royalties could be an issue, right? E.g. Bob Burchmann who wrote the lyric for It's About Time and was pressured into signing away his publishing rights or something to that effect. Similarly, I know Greg Jakobbson cowrote Slip on Through but on most releases it's attributed to only Dennis. The Beach Boys were definitely shady with how they handled this stuff back in the day by the sound of it.

Potential legal holdups of this kind could have in turn dissuaded some members from releasing it altogether - canning it may have appeared the better option, for fear of the backlash if this were to become a public controversy i.e. that they used to screw their cowriters.

I suppose all of these scenarios would have varying levels of plausibility in the theoretical (I'm not sure huge public controversies would ensue over issues related to Bob Burchman or Gregg Jacobson). Material with those writers has been issued and reissued many times even in recent years, so I've never heard of new renewed legal beefs about any of that.

I mean, they even released one song on "Hawthorne, CA" back in 2001 ("Lonely Days") that had *no* songwriting credit, because nobody could remember who wrote it, right?

In any event, none of that is at play with this release from what I've heard. The whole thing is done and ready. As I've said many times, the content of the set (and I'm using a very broad definition of "content" that would include tracklisting, mixing, clearing of credits and rights, booklets, cover art, etc.) is not what's holding things up. As I've also said many times, the content *not* being an issue is precisely why it has been strongly suggested that it's worth telling the band and related parties that this set should be released, because it's still possible to make happen.
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« Reply #1320 on: September 03, 2020, 02:33:02 PM »

It does seem convincing that conflicts over royalties could be an issue, right? E.g. Bob Burchmann who wrote the lyric for It's About Time and was pressured into signing away his publishing rights or something to that effect. Similarly, I know Greg Jakobbson cowrote Slip on Through but on most releases it's attributed to only Dennis. The Beach Boys were definitely shady with how they handled this stuff back in the day by the sound of it.

Potential legal holdups of this kind could have in turn dissuaded some members from releasing it altogether - canning it may have appeared the better option, for fear of the backlash if this were to become a public controversy i.e. that they used to screw their cowriters.

I have thought about this also, but the insiders have seemingly dispelled this theory with what they've said that's far.

Plus, I could virtually bet that *if* that's the cause, that those folks could be paid off via a fundraiser or something. Even the record label wants this to be released, there's no way that some random songwriter is holding this up for $10 million and not budging. I just don't buy that.

Again, to believe this has something *other* than to do with Mike is to be of the opinion that Mike not mentioning the 49/50 anniversary of the 70/71  albums, plus Brian's page comically snubbing Mike in a recent post, are simply coincidences that have nothing to do with what's going on.

Does that sound logical? I'm of the opinion that it doesn't.
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« Reply #1321 on: September 03, 2020, 02:41:08 PM »

Thanks B.E, rab2591, SMiLE Brian, and CenturyDeprived.

I just caught one of the bits in that voluminous run-through above of many of the public comments about the set, and I can say that the "Bruce Kelso" and "Phil Cohen" posts at "superdeluxeedition" are not accurate in any way as far as I've been made aware.

Right. Since it was being heavily discussed at the time, I included it for reference, and as an example of something asked and answered, as Stebbins' August 22nd reply did.

As for the unanimous vote thing, I've seen it discussed in a few places, and implied everywhere, since many posts are pondering why one certain member would want to halt it. But if it is in fact majority, then thinking it through logically (even if logic doesn't apply to the complicated relationships as band members and as individuals), then I'd say the two least likely veto votes would be Al, who teased it and had apparently been listening to it on tour before the shutdown, and Brian who "went hardcore on the '69-'71 era" for the liners. The two vetoes leave the obvious Mike, with the history of holdups, memory-holing the era on American Family, who has been silent since the 4th of July and who sidestepped the vault question, and then Carl's estate.

I don't have the time to dig at the moment, but I recall discussions about Carl's estate voting with Mike before on things? Other than voting with him, I don't know what issues there'd be. Was it Carl and Dennis that bickered on the track list for Surf's Up, and Carl axed a bunch of Dennis' songs, or I am misremembering or simplifying it?

I'm not sure where people have gotten the idea that unanimous votes are needed for archival releases. I don't know if people are assuming it's one person that could hold something up, and then working their way backwards from that to assume it has to be unanimous, or what.

I think the teams over the years working on sets are pretty sensitive to individual track vetoes, even sometimes from non-corporate members (I recall that Bruce asked "I Write the Songs" to be removed from the Knebworth '80 DVD and CD, though he may have had some actual legal say due to being the producer on that project; I'm not sure).

But once they've commissioned for a set to be made, and it has been compiled, mixed, mastered, etc.; years of work done on it, and it's ready to release, I think once money and resources have been laid out, a majority vote would take the day.

Of the relative few public references to actual BRI votes (e.g. various public court filings, and then an interview with Mike about the L&M soundtrack from the last few years), we've seen references to non-unanimous votes.

I can only also add that I don't think anybody in a million years would ever guess the specific "why" involved in the delays, and without knowing *those* details, the "who" cannot be easily assumed.

As I've been saying since the beginning, when it comes to the "how/why/who", it's better to not assume anything and tell *all* the band members and other related parties that this set needs to come out.
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« Reply #1322 on: September 03, 2020, 02:54:06 PM »

Paging Cameron Crowe...

Crowe's 2000 film "Almost Famous" very specifically made me a fan of this band, via the mini infomercial that Crowe snuck in there for Pet Sounds. I was a casual fan before that, but that scene in the film specifically caused me to dig deeper. Several years later I was able to thank him in person when I ran into him at a BW show.  

Countless other watchers of that film dug deeper into this band because he chose the song "Feel Flows" in the end credits. (I'm guessing that was the very first time that song was licensed in any sort of Hollywood film? I would be shocked if there was an earlier example.) Crowe CLEARLY thinks highly of the 70-71 period of this band. He CLEARLY thought that was a significant song to put in his film. He's a music geek and scholar. This song being in that movie was no accident. Crowe is probably the most high profile person to specifically give center stage to the material of this band from this era, especially at that relatively early date of 2000.

I've purchased countless thousand$$$ of dollars of Beach Boys product since becoming a fan of this band via that film's kind nudging. Doesn't the band want more of my hard-earned money? Don't they want more fans, more fans' money, and most importantly for the gospel of The Beach Boys, and THE HEALING POWER OF MUSIC to continue doing its thing? This set will make new fans, and it will certainly get people to throw more money at the band and brand name.  

The release of this box set will mean more TV shows and movies will license the band's music in the future. No doubt.

Cameron Crowe, or somebody connected to him, should give a tweet, or drop a line to somebody at Rolling Stone. If ever there was a time when somebody famous with connections could come in handy, it's now.  Help us, Obie Won KaCrowebe - you're our only hope.

Maybe Crowe has already casually heard about this set, but isn't aware of the jeopardy it is in, or that maybe some tweets/emails/phone calls could maybe make a difference. The set needs a high profile champion. Look at how great folks like Guercio or Stebbins, for example championed Denny's solo album in '77 and '08, and nudged it towards the finish line? Or how it took Darian and the 'Mints to get Brian to finally realize SMiLE?  Howie, Jon, Alan, Mark have all done phenomenal work here, but someone else needs to come along and grease the wheels via whatever means necessary. The ball needs to keep rolling.

Somebody must know somebody connected to Crowe. Let's put our thinking caps here on people.
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« Reply #1323 on: September 03, 2020, 04:02:15 PM »

Thank you Cork for posting that timeline. Helps to have everything in one spot.

Here’s where I stand. Unless there’s something brewing behind the scenes that we don’t know about that’s completely out of base with what I’m about to say there’s only two things that are at play; Mike vetoed, or the label got cold feet and changed their mind ( that’s if you take “dying on the vine” to mean Capitol Records ie Hollywood and *Vine*). The former would not surprise me in the least based on past history. The same history that keeps The Beach Boys from getting their just dues, an unfortunate ramification of the 1977 tarmac incident ; had the results played out differently we might now be having this discussion now.

For the second part, though, I would think once it’s agreed to and the label signs off on it, only the label could cancel or pull it at that point. That’s the thing that keeps getting me.

At the end of the day though it’s not why it’s been held back or shelved; it’s getting it out there. And I don’t think that’s gonna happen at this point.
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« Reply #1324 on: September 03, 2020, 04:23:32 PM »

Thank you Cork for posting that timeline. Helps to have everything in one spot.

Here’s where I stand. Unless there’s something brewing behind the scenes that we don’t know about that’s completely out of base with what I’m about to say there’s only two things that are at play; Mike vetoed, or the label got cold feet and changed their mind ( that’s if you take “dying on the vine” to mean Capitol Records ie Hollywood and *Vine*). The former would not surprise me in the least based on past history. The same history that keeps The Beach Boys from getting their just dues, an unfortunate ramification of the 1977 tarmac incident ; had the results played out differently we might now be having this discussion now.

For the second part, though, I would think once it’s agreed to and the label signs off on it, only the label could cancel or pull it at that point. That’s the thing that keeps getting me.

At the end of the day though it’s not why it’s been held back or shelved; it’s getting it out there. And I don’t think that’s gonna happen at this point.
The idea of the label getting cold feet actually sounds slightly plausible once you read this quote from Howie from July: "It forever changes how The Beach Boys will be viewed as (a) musical entity at the beginning of the decade". There must be some serious revelations on it.

If the Feel Flows box set as it stands now doesn't come out, I hope with all my heart that at the very least we end up getting the vast majority of it as a digital only release. I don't really care how this material is presented to us, as long as we get to hear it.
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