Why did the BBs use Al and Bruce as producers?

[The Heartical Don]

It might not cover until 2011, but until 1981 it's a very complete overview. It might miss a few releases and some info might be a bit dated by now, but you won't find a book that 'll cover it better.

So for 10 Euro, I recommend buying it.

OK -

that is the info I had hoped for. Tks for it!

[punkinhead]

Using Al, I have no idea why they would; I guess desperate needs call for desperate measures.

I could see them using Bruce as he had his own "solo" career and a lot more experience producing than Al ever did.



I'm honestly surprised they didn't have someone come in (as a Billy Preston-like measure, and yes, I know BP didn't produce) to produce them earlier than the BB 85 album.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I agree on the production values of MIU and KTSA. They are really far below average. Both albums sound heavily compressed, and there's absolutely no bright, transparend top end. It all is so muffled, so energy-free... a simple early ditty like '409' rips both albums to shreds, soundwise.

As for Light Album, that one is really better. 'Good Timin'', 'Going South', 'Baby Blue', all excellent. They sound like Denny and Carl were there at the desk, but I gather from the earlier messages in this thread they were not credited? Could it be that Curt Becher (née Boettcher) had a hand in the bright sound? Anyway, I wonder to this day how experienced pros, like the BBs were at that time, could let something like MIU pass quality control.

Curt was only involved in the disco track.

OK, thanks to our one and only font of knowledge. Andrew, BTW: Brad Eliott's 'Surf's Up' book is available in my town for a measly 10 Euros or so. It is the Helter Skelter paperback from 2003. Is it worth the money, considering it does not cover everything up until now? What would you do?

I still use my first edition on a regular basis - for €10, that's a steal.

[Rocker]

Well, Bruce did also produce LA: Light Album, that I personally find fantastic on all counts!

I really like L.A., you know, but it also sounds lifeless. I'd like to know how much Jim Guercio was involved since he has a credit too.

I guess they asked Bruce to produce, because he knew the guys and everyone, the drug-camp and the T.M.-camp liked and respected him. And he probably knew enough about the craziness in the band but has been away far enough for a few years not to take side with any of them.

Regarding Al, I think like someone said, it was to keep it in the family. And also we have to remember that it was Al who worked mostly with Carl (and for a while Desper) in the early 70s producing the albums. He knew what to do. Unfortunately that's not to say that M.I.U. was any good. But his production on "Cottonfields" is fantastic. Had he had better material, we might think differently about his production.

As far as I can say, Dennis would'nt have been a good producer for the band. First I don't believe that Mike and Al had enough respect for his musical talent (Al even regretted not taking Dennis serious enough in an interview from a few years ago). But look what happened when Bros. Studio was sold and Dennis couldn't just walk in and record whenever he wanted. When it needed planning and being on time at the studio and be sure to get a recording done in a certain time, I don't think Dennis was able to handle that at that point in his life. That's why Bambu didn't get finished. And I also can't imagine Dennis producing "Kona cost"

Carl also had personal problems in '78, but I'd really think KTSA could have been better if Carl was the sole producer. I still can't get over how Bruce destroyed "Oh darlin'".

[Smilin Ed H]

You can't blame Al because he couldn't polish a turd.

[Mr. Cohen]

I don't know. I agree that material on MIU wasn't great. There were no potential for classics on it. But I think a song like "Wontcha Come Out Tonight?"  could've been good fun if it was produced right. As it is, it just makes me shrug my shoulders.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Well, his own songs, of course. Most of which Mike sang on. "All I Wanna Do": he sang lead, in fact.

Yes, he did - but Dennis didn't write or produce it.

I meant the 20/20 All I Wanna Do

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

or "All I Wanna Do" featuring the bed-squeaking!

Dennis certainly Produced THAT!

[smile-holland]

or "All I Wanna Do" featuring the bed-squeaking!

Dennis certainly Produced THAT!

Yep, but as I already mentioned earlier, that song is called All I Want (and not "wanna") To Do.


And Dennis definitely did something productive during that fade-out                        (did I just say that  )

[Andrew G. Doe]

Well, his own songs, of course. Most of which Mike sang on. "All I Wanna Do": he sang lead, in fact.

Yes, he did - but Dennis didn't write or produce it.

I meant the 20/20 All I Wanna Do

No such song on 20/20.  And people wonder why I get a bit testy sometimes...

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Wait: now I'm confused!

So, Dennis produced the bed squeaking but didn't write or produce the song? So, were Dennis and Mike creating the bed squeaking together? Wouldn't that be co-production???   

[drbeachboy]

The song on 20/20 is "All I Want To Do". The Song on Sunflower is called "All I Wanna Do". Dennis and I think Carl produced the track on 20/20.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

So, wait! it was Dennis and CARL making the bed squeak?

[drbeachboy]

This is really stupid. I honestly thought you had the two songs confused. AGD, I with you there!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Oops! Such humorlessness!!!!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

To bring this board back to it's proper dead-seriousness: I was referring to the very dramatic track # 4 on the 20/20 album that was written/produced by Dennis: lead vocal by Mike, with some very scholarly bed-squeaking at the end.

There.

[kookadams]

Yeah I hafta agree with this thread. MIU, LA Light and Keepin' the Summer Alive were very weak albums. There were a few good tracks on 'em but overall and in comparison to every previous record they were pretty shitty. A lot of people talk sh*t on 15 Big Ones and Love You big I dig a lot of the songs, but I can understand why those albums aren't praised.

[adamghost]

I think there's two X factors with MIU and KTSA that are worth taking into account.

MIU was done at a studio that, if I remember correctly, they basically built from scratch a la HOLLAND (which had its own technical problems, but it kinda works, giving it that lo-fi sterile vibe that indie bands have tried to emulate).  A lot of MIU just sounds like it wasn't recorded real well.

KTSA I believe there was a big deal made that it was recorded with the then-new Aphex Aural Exciter, am I not right about that?  And to me there's a mile of difference between the way L.A. sounds and KTSA sounds (although it may be L.A. had the Aphex as well).  But I know KTSA has the sound of something that's been screwed with, globally, with some new technical gizmo that didn't seem like such a good idea later.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I think there's two X factors with MIU and KTSA that are worth taking into account.

MIU was done at a studio that, if I remember correctly, they basically built from scratch a la HOLLAND (which had its own technical problems, but it kinda works, giving it that lo-fi sterile vibe that indie bands have tried to emulate).  A lot of MIU just sounds like it wasn't recorded real well.

KTSA I believe there was a big deal made that it was recorded with the then-new Aphex Aural Exciter, am I not right about that?  And to me there's a mile of difference between the way L.A. sounds and KTSA sounds (although it may be L.A. had the Aphex as well).  But I know KTSA has the sound of something that's been screwed with, globally, with some new technical gizmo that didn't seem like such a good idea later.

Er... actually it was L.A. that used the Aphex - KTSA had Steve Desper engineering, so it was kinda quad-ish.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I generally think, that with LA having better material, the band might've been in more of a rare moment of collective inspiration, therefore a whole different sort of attention was paid to the recording/mixing/mastering.

Though I could of course be very well wrong.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I generally think, that with LA having better material, the band might've been in more of a rare moment of collective inspiration, therefore a whole different sort of attention was paid to the recording/mixing/mastering.

Though I could of course be very well wrong.

It was also their first album for Caribou, and well overdue. Can't say I go with any notion of collective inspiration: a 10-minute reworking of a 12-year-old track... a five-year-old session recycled... three tracks donated from solo projects... and another reworking, this time of a six-year-old track. I'd say inspiration was at a definite premium.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I'm afraid you're probably dead right, but at least the material was good!!!!!

[Mike's Beard]

The drums and the bass playing on MIU reminds me of crappy karaoke backing tracks. If Dennis had been present, at least the drums could have had some life hammered into them.

[Dunderhead]

I just don't like these albums. I think even something like Angel Come Home is only a pale shadow of The Trader or Long Promised Road.

There's a minor glimmer every once in a while of something decent, but the songs are mostly weak and the mixing is awful. I'll just never really understand why people jump to defend these albums, I'd be hard pressed to even select one track that measures up to the 1970-73 era material. I guess maybe they aren't the total train wrecks that they appear to be on the surface, maybe a few passengers walked away away unscathed, but still at the end of the day things had definitely gone off the tracks.

This albums were just not produced and mixed well enough honestly and they sound terrible on headphones. Maybe on car speakers some of this stuff comes out ahead, but on headphones, jeeze, songs like Sunshine sound truly awful. These are the first albums where I really feel like there are songs that simply don't have any merit. The boys had released a few questionable cuts during their peak years, but even those aren't as bad as some of the songs on these three albums.

[lance]

KTSA's sound is mystifyingly bad, but I think LA and MIU sound pretty good. MIU's problem is some really bad songwriting. I like LA and about half the songs on MIU.

As far as letting Al and Bruce do it, well, I've always thought that Brian was supposed to produce all of those, then just quit. Al and Bruce stepped up to the plate, and I commend them, even if the final effort didn't always make the grade. Bruce's sixties, pre-BB stuff is great, I think.