Frankie Valli or Brian Wilson - who had the better falsetto?

[Mike's Beard]

What do posters think?

[The Shift]

I think you'd get a different answer over at the Four Seasons' board!   

[A Million Units In Jan!]

That's like asking 'Was Dennis Wilson a good drummer' on a BB's board 

[Smilin Ed H]

Or which Beatle had the bigger dick on the Hoffman board.

[LostArt]

Or which Beatle had the bigger dick on the Hoffman board.

  Classic

[kirt]

Brian, his was smooth and natural. Frankie's was forced and irritating.

Ringo ,you know what they say big nose big..........

[Jonas]

This is a question for Watson.

[rab2591]

Frankie Valli.

[filledeplage]

What do posters think?

Interesting question...

This poster thinks that it is apples and oranges -  because a different "vocal effect" appeared to the goal.  

It seemed, although the falsetto was an integral part of Brian's intended "vocal matrix" that he constructed, and it does not appear that it was intended to overshadow but complement the rest of the voices.  

The "shared lead" concept is brilliant, of the Boys.  (not the Jersey Boys)
 
But the question asked is whose voice is better, and that too, is a matter of taste...Brian's absolutely...soothing, yet can rock (I Get Around comes to mind.)   Frankie's falsetto is too harsh for the Boys music.   It's just not fabulous!    

They are a great band but don't hold a candle to the real "masters."  

    

[Mikie]

Four Seasons, you'd better believe it.

[pixletwin]

Frankie's falsetto always sounded feminine and at the same time unrefined. Whereas Brian's just sounds clean. I prefer Brian's. (big surprise)

[The Shift]

Brian, his was smooth and natural. Frankie's was forced and irritating.

Ringo ,you know what they say big nose big..........

Ringo was Richard, not a Dick.

[Fall Breaks]

Brian, his was smooth and natural. Frankie's was forced and irritating.

Wait wait, we're still talking about falsettos, I hope? 

I'd take Brian's anyday.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

This will sound broken-record to many, but this question makes my point that much more distinct.

Brian rarely, if ever, sang in falsetto.  Frankie did, but not as much as people think.  So it's hard to compare, because they're singing in two different ways.  Brian could control the volume of his higher ranger throughout, the tone was well supported, the vocal folds adducted--which is not true falsetto.  Frankie seems to have had to push more the higher he went, but I think the tone is still supported and focused.  As he descends the scale, it may start to sound hooty, in which case the folds are loose and he would be in some sort of falsetto mode.

It's pretty much a semantic thing, but there should be a distinction out there in order to give certain people their due.  Calling anything higher than the break in the voice "falsetto" is like calling everybody who lives in the United States American.  There are Americans living there, but plenty of other nationalities as well.  Likewise, a high voice can be falsetto, but it can also not be.  Brian's high voice is more cultivated than Frankie Valli's, and both are more cultivated than, say, Dean Torrance.  It's a different sound, and that Brian is not singing in falsetto is a credit to his technique--you just have to work harder to sing that way.  See Chuck Britz' quote of admiration where he marvels that Brian could sing high without going into falsetto--I think that sort of backs up what I've been saying for years.

[pixletwin]

So what your saying is something like Brian's vocals in I Get Around are not a falsetto or just select notes? That is incredible if it is true.

[drbeachboy]

To me it is a falsetto. Brian was just able to transition (Slide) into it very easily, which not many singers can do.

[Runaways]

i've wanted to start a thread where we debate when brian is using his falsetto and when he isn't.  Whenever I listen to surfer girl, it sounds like he barely uses it, if at all

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Correct.  I mean, we'd have to had stuffed a scope down into his larynx to know for sure, but I suspect the vocal folds are adducted there.

The problem is, in some ways Brian was imitating a falsetto sound without actually being in a falsetto mode.  If he had been trained classically, he would obviously be pronouncing things differently and going for a different resonance, and then we'd hear it and go, "Oh, I see."  

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

A few links for those interested in this distinction:

http://www.become-a-singing-master.com/head-voice-and-falsetto.html

http://chanteur.net/contribu/index.htm#http://chanteur.net/contribu/cLHfalse.htm

http://www.vocalist.org.uk/falsetto.html

http://www.rockthestagenyc.com/members/movies/candle/

But you can google "head voice falsetto distinction" or somesuch and get a lot back.

[Runaways]

can you think of any examples of when it's actual falsetto for brian?

[king of anglia]

This will sound broken-record to many, but this question makes my point that much more distinct.

Brian rarely, if ever, sang in falsetto.  Frankie did, but not as much as people think.  So it's hard to compare, because they're singing in two different ways.  Brian could control the volume of his higher ranger throughout, the tone was well supported, the vocal folds adducted--which is not true falsetto.  Frankie seems to have had to push more the higher he went, but I think the tone is still supported and focused.  As he descends the scale, it may start to sound hooty, in which case the folds are loose and he would be in some sort of falsetto mode.

It's pretty much a semantic thing, but there should be a distinction out there in order to give certain people their due.  Calling anything higher than the break in the voice "falsetto" is like calling everybody who lives in the United States American.  There are Americans living there, but plenty of other nationalities as well.  Likewise, a high voice can be falsetto, but it can also not be.  Brian's high voice is more cultivated than Frankie Valli's, and both are more cultivated than, say, Dean Torrance.  It's a different sound, and that Brian is not singing in falsetto is a credit to his technique--you just have to work harder to sing that way.  See Chuck Britz' quote of admiration where he marvels that Brian could sing high without going into falsetto--I think that sort of backs up what I've been saying for years.

So assuming that, Brian had apparently three different high voices:
Falsetto
False Falsettto -  what we all assume is his Falsetto?
High Chest Voice - like when you yell.

Am I correct?

Can you name any examples of each?

Frankie Valli had a lovely voice, but it was unfortunately more hilarious than beautiful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu74JIvtMc4

[hypehat]

I get the distinction - Brian is not busting full falsetto, just singing very, very high, which comes off in the tone of some of his leads - On ballads, he still has the 'croon' inflection and phrasing despite being way up there. An effect from learning from The Freshmen, perhaps?

Some examples of his 'actual' falsetto would be handy - I get the feeling that ball-busting high note he hits on Til I Die during the fade is one.

[Sam_BFC]

On something like the Wouldn't It Be Nice verses Brian sings pretty high and it is easy to tell not in falsetto IMO...but with something like 'She looks in my eyes...' from Don't Worry Baby, the tone is comparatively different and more suggestive of falsetto to me...

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

more suggestive of falsetto to me...

Yes, suggestive of, but in my opinion, it sounds that way because he has just skipped up a seventh there, anytime you skip like that the difference in timbres will be evident.

Certainly older Brian had to resort to falsetto because his folds were not as supple, so to speak.  His high stuff on Orange Crate Art is falsetto, I would think.  You can tell because it's hootier.  In falsetto, air is escaping from between the folds, thus "false"-etto, the folds are not really closed.  Try the exercise in that last link I posted and you'll get an idea of the mechanisms involved here.

[guitarfool2002]

If you watch the Inside Pop solo piano performance of Surf's Up, you hear Brian's voice without any kind of studio processing or trickery. When he hits the impossibly high notes on the word "domino", what voice is he using?

FWIW, I thought Frankie Valli's high falsetto could be very grating and shrill because he used it so damn much! It's similar to a high screaming trumpet player like Maynard Ferguson, or a shredder of a guitarist - sure it's a technical skill, yes it can be really cool and impressive, but some players like Ferguson pound your ears with screaming high notes constantly and it's too much to handle.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Four Seasons especially the production and songwriting, but too much of Frankie Valli belting out high notes can overpower the sometimes brilliant music going on underneath all the faux-streetcorner swagger. I prefer the more mellow, chest-y voice Valli used on later songs, especially "Can't Take My Eyes Off Of You", which is a brilliant vocal performance where he doesn't lapse into that falsetto at all, and delivers a powerful vocal over a brilliant arrangement.