The Reality: The Beach Boys & Brian don't need avid fans

[PhilCohen]

In the end, even snubbing the avid fans over "Smile" won't have any detrimental effect on Brian, Mike, Bruce & Al's ability to make a living....even a very lucrative living. The people who go to Al's shows & the Mike/Bruce "Beach Boys" shows only want to hear the 1962-65 Surf, Car & Summer Fun songs, and Al, Mike & Bruce deliver them. And Brian, being the primary songwriter has the biggest royalties checks of any Beach Boy. He could quit playing, writing & recording after fulfilling the Disney contract and retire in comfort.
                              As for those of us who like Brian & The Beach Boys' more "artistic" creations(though I like the early songs too), we are clearly in the minority. The recent "Smile" fiasco has the potential to permanently alienate this segment of the audience, so that this segment of the audience turns away in disgust, but the economic reality is that it is the fans who prefer the surf, car & summer fun songs that are the majority. All the surviving members can snub the "Smile" fans and happily(and successfully) continue their performing and recording careers. The sort of people who post on forums such as these mean nothing, commercially, to the surviving "Beach Boys" members.

[Dunderhead]

...and...here...we...GO!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

and so I turn off the computer, gaze sadly at the four stone walls of my hovel: the flimsy plastic remnants of the Beach Boys 67-80 work: all that is left to comfort me  

[JaredLekites]

Neither does Phil Spector.

Shh. Don't tell Brian...

[BJL]

Let's be real here.  I like the current incarnation(s) of the Beach Boys.  I like Brian's solo stuff, Al and Mike's live shows.  I think a smile release would be exciting.  But at the end of the day, I'm in it for the records.  Those records were made 30-50 years ago.  The people who made them are transformed almost beyond recognition.  But those records, on vinyl, on CD, on computers and mp3 players, from Surfer Girl to Love You, will be around until the end of time.  Certainly for the rest of my life.  So I'm not worried about anything when it comes to the Beach Boys.  I have the music, frankly, and that's more than enough, more than we ever deserved from these 6 or 8 hardworkin' guys.

[Musketeer]

Thank you Phil for pointing our insignificance.

[donald]

Let's be real here.  I like the current incarnation(s) of the Beach Boys.  I like Brian's solo stuff, Al and Mike's live shows.  I think a smile release would be exciting.  But at the end of the day, I'm in it for the records.  Those records were made 30-50 years ago.  The people who made them are transformed almost beyond recognition.  But those records, on vinyl, on CD, on computers and mp3 players, from Surfer Girl to Love You, will be around until the end of time.  Certainly for the rest of my life.  So I'm not worried about anything when it comes to the Beach Boys.  I have the music, frankly, and that's more than enough, more than we ever deserved from these 6 or 8 hardworkin' guys.

Glad you put in the disclaimer on "end of time" and shortened it to "rest of my life".    Its good to get perspective.  Even the best pop doesn't survive much beyond it's generation or maybe their children.  But given.......the Beach Boys are still going strong after 50 years and they have a huge catalogue.
They may well outlast the Beatles.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I hope so. I realize the Beatles were good, but the Beach Boys were far better. Unfortunately, the Beatles just so happen to split at the exact right moment.  I wonder how the BB would be looked at if they had called it quits after Holland. Or hell, after the fight on Al's birthday.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

That the real kicker question for all of us.

I'd be inclined to think they'd be right up there with the Beatles recognition wise if Holland had been the last album. But then again what followed is a big part of why we love them and why they're so fascinating.

[stack-o-tracks]

Thank you Phil for pointing our insignificance.

We're like corks on the ocean....

[Ron]

I've ranted about it in the past, but the biggest mistake people make when this type of discussion rolls around is that they assume that one form of music is more 'artistically' valuable than another.  They always want to discredit popularity as being useless.  Humans like to categorize things, because it helps us understand them.  So the die hard Beach Boy fan does the following:

 - Hears "I Get Around", likes it, and everybody else does too.  It's huge.  #1 hit.

- Hears "Time to get Alone", likes it, and wonders why nobody else does, even though it's just as good as "I Get Around".

- Eventually reconciles this mystery in ther mind, by saying that popularity isn't important.  Therefore, it makes sense in their mind that a song can be great and not popular at the same time...

- Eventually gets to the point where they think anything popular is crap and only songs nobody's heard of are artistically valuable.

The beach boys, ALL of them, including Mike who's the easiest target, are all musicians, and all artists.  Mike is not all about the money, and neither are any of the rest of the Beach Boys.  They created "I Get Around" just like they created "Time to get Alone" or whatever your favorite pet song is, and are probably just as content to sing either.  If the fans mainly want to hear the more popular stuff, they do their fans a great service by playing them what they want to hear.

It's just sad that people think that the guys have changed, or sold out, or whatever when what they're ultimately doing is pleasing their fans by the masses.  The single most important thing a musician (who is an artist) can do, is touch as many people as possible.  The Beach Boys have done this, in a big way, for a long, long time.  Mike, Al, Bruce, Brian, Carl, Dennis have all done a great deal for society and the world in general.  

I'm dead serious!  

[rab2591]

That the real kicker question for all of us.

I'd be inclined to think they'd be right up there with the Beatles recognition wise if Holland had been the last album. But then again what followed is a big part of why we love them and why they're so fascinating.

I wasn't alive back then, so I am only speculating here - the Beatles had 21 number-one hits in America (27 worldwide). The Beach Boys had 4.....ALL before Holland. I highly doubt the Beach Boys would have gotten Beatle-esque recognition even if they had quit after Holland.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I've ranted about it in the past, but the biggest mistake people make when this type of discussion rolls around is that they assume that one form of music is more 'artistically' valuable than another.  They always want to discredit popularity as being useless.  Humans like to categorize things, because it helps us understand them.  So the die hard Beach Boy fan does the following:

 - Hears "I Get Around", likes it, and everybody else does too.  It's huge.  #1 hit.

- Hears "Time to get Alone", likes it, and wonders why nobody else does, even though it's just as good as "I Get Around".

- Eventually reconciles this mystery in ther mind, by saying that popularity isn't important.  Therefore, it makes sense in their mind that a song can be great and not popular at the same time...

- Eventually gets to the point where they think anything popular is crap and only songs nobody's heard of are artistically valuable.

The beach boys, ALL of them, including Mike who's the easiest target, are all musicians, and all artists.  Mike is not all about the money, and neither are any of the rest of the Beach Boys.  They created "I Get Around" just like they created "Time to get Alone" or whatever your favorite pet song is, and are probably just as content to sing either.  If the fans mainly want to hear the more popular stuff, they do their fans a great service by playing them what they want to hear.

It's just sad that people think that the guys have changed, or sold out, or whatever when what they're ultimately doing is pleasing their fans by the masses.  The single most important thing a musician (who is an artist) can do, is touch as many people as possible.  The Beach Boys have done this, in a big way, for a long, long time.  Mike, Al, Bruce, Brian, Carl, Dennis have all done a great deal for society and the world in general.  

I'm dead serious!  

Well put!

insert weak oldsurferdood Mike insult here: ________________________________________-

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

The Beach Boys had 4.....ALL before Holland. I highly doubt the Beach Boys would have gotten Beatle-esque recognition even if they had quit after Holland.

Kokomo came out in 1988, so that was after Holland.

[Ebb and Flow]

I wasn't alive back then, so I am only speculating here - the Beatles had 21 number-one hits in America (27 worldwide). The Beach Boys had 4.....ALL before Holland. I highly doubt the Beach Boys would have gotten Beatle-esque recognition even if they had quit after Holland.

The Beatles achieved a worldwide sense of fame and created a general hysteria that will be hard for any group or artist to surpass.  I think the fact that the Beach Boys were able to have any number one hits during that period is impressive.

I think that the Beach Boys achieved a certain sense of indelibility within popular culture, especially with their early hits, that a lot of the music the Beatles recorded doesn't have in quite the same way.  My seven-year old neighbor knows all the words to Surfin' USA, but he probably couldn't name me a Beatles tune.  Perhaps that's just an American phenomenon though.

[Runaways]

my god does philcohen overreact or what. 

did i miss this smile fiasco?  is he talking about how al ran his mouth and had to recant?

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

The Beach Boys had 4.....ALL before Holland. I highly doubt the Beach Boys would have gotten Beatle-esque recognition even if they had quit after Holland.

Kokomo came out in 1988, so that was after Holland.

Insert weak oldsurferdude Mike insult here: ____________________________

[Dove Nested Towers]

Ideally, an artist has or should have an obligation, and usually a desire, to do full justice to his/her talent and potential, above and beyond any commercial motivations.  Of course they usually have to walk a fine line there, and make compromises for the sake of financial survival. The Beach Boys and Brian Wilson are in the fortunate position of being able to afford to ignore those commercial considerations, but have their own criteria, such as what music they most enjoy making, and what will please the largest # of people. One view would be that Brian owes it to himself and his musical legacy to authorize the complete (as complete as possible anyway) closure on the Smile legend that an official "sessions" release would provide, even beyond the significant closure that BWPS represented, which is not to be minimized. This could be accomplished while still touring and pleasing the "masses". He and the Beach Boys could afford to do justice to both their mainstream musical direction and the more artistic efforts that Smile is the epitome of, and owe it to themselves to do so, IMO. Phil Cohen's statement about their motivations seems a bit jaded and I hope it is not representative of the attitudes of the principals involved.

Of course I also am very satisfied with the music they have released during the last 50 years, but that doesn't mean that a superbly conceived and executed deluxe Smile set, hopefully with unheard material from private collections or wherever it may be that finally sees the light of day, would not be the icing on the proverbial cake!

[ukulelejesus]

The Beach Boys don't need avid fans to enrich their lives with money, but other people need avid Beach Boys fans to show them the world outside 409 and Little Deuce Coup. I like introducing new people to The Beach Boys, and being an avid fan, because I can enrich their lives and show them music that's always been there, that's beautiful, and that can make you feel more emotion than almost any other music. I'm an avid fan for myself, and for others.

[juggler]

my god does philcohen overreact or what.  

did i miss this smile fiasco?  is he talking about how al ran his mouth and had to recant?

I missed the "fiasco" too.  

There is no fiasco.  Bottom line... Announcing the release of Smile is the job of (1) the Capitol public relations department; or (2) Brother Records Inc.; or (3) Brian Wilson; or (4) Two or more of the previous three.

[Andrew G. Doe]

In the end, even snubbing the avid fans over "Smile" won't have any detrimental effect on Brian, Mike, Bruce & Al's ability to make a living.... The recent "Smile" fiasco has the potential to permanently alienate this segment of the audience, so that this segment of the audience turns away in disgust, but the economic reality is that it is the fans who prefer the surf, car & summer fun songs that are the majority. All the surviving members can snub the "Smile" fans and happily(and successfully) continue their performing and recording careers. The sort of people who post on forums such as these mean nothing, commercially, to the surviving "Beach Boys" members.

Snubbing... fiasco ?  Sure, it wasn't the brightest thing that Alan's ever done, but bottom line is - and I'll keep saying this until it takes root - no-one directly concerned except Alan has said "no, not going to happen".  I'll lay Steve Hoffman's claim to one side for the time being, as I think he's mistaken: I obviously don't know where he's getting his scoop, but I'd question it if only on basic principles.

As for permanently alienating the likes of us - please, Phil: we've had this scenario one way or another since 1967. Do I look alienated ?

As I've said before, if come 11.59pm on 12/31/11 some kind of Smile set isn't nestling either on my shelves or in the electronic bowels of my laptop, I'll hold my hands up and say "I'm as wrong as a wrong thing in the final of the world wrongness championship". But I don't think I will be.

[buddhahat]

In the end, even snubbing the avid fans over "Smile" won't have any detrimental effect on Brian, Mike, Bruce & Al's ability to make a living....even a very lucrative living. The people who go to Al's shows & the Mike/Bruce "Beach Boys" shows only want to hear the 1962-65 Surf, Car & Summer Fun songs, and Al, Mike & Bruce deliver them. And Brian, being the primary songwriter has the biggest royalties checks of any Beach Boy. He could quit playing, writing & recording after fulfilling the Disney contract and retire in comfort.
                              As for those of us who like Brian & The Beach Boys' more "artistic" creations(though I like the early songs too), we are clearly in the minority. The recent "Smile" fiasco has the potential to permanently alienate this segment of the audience, so that this segment of the audience turns away in disgust, but the economic reality is that it is the fans who prefer the surf, car & summer fun songs that are the majority. All the surviving members can snub the "Smile" fans and happily(and successfully) continue their performing and recording careers. The sort of people who post on forums such as these mean nothing, commercially, to the surviving "Beach Boys" members.

Let's not jump the gun, here - I don't think Al saying Smile's coming out, and then retracting the statement, qualifies as fan snubbing although it is a bit frustrating for many of us here. I also don't agree that the Beach Boys don't need the type of fans that populate this board. Brian in particular makes a good living from promoting his mythology, just look at BWPS for starters, then the subsequent albums that give more than a nod to Smile. Many of us (me included) are exactly the type of people that lap that stuff up so they're catering for us to a certain extent.

[buddhahat]

if come 11.59pm on 12/31/11 some kind of Smile set isn't nestling either on my shelves or in the electronic bowels of my laptop, I'll hold my hands up and say "I'm as wrong as a wrong thing in the final of the world wrongness championship". But I don't think I will be.

I shall hold you to this, AGD! 

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Please, no more Beatles vs. Beach Boys. It's all a matter of opinion. And I have plenty of music by both bands resting in the bowels of my computer, thank you very much 

[The Shift]

... no-one directly concerned except Alan has said "no, not going to happen".  I

I don't even read Al's latest reported comment (anything more on the veracity/source of that?) as saying "not gonna happen" -  only that it's not ready yet.


The item states:

The Beach Boys’ Al Jardine has said that they are not likely to release the recordings intended for their abortive Smile album, contrary to recent Internet reports. He says, “I don’t know if we even have enough parts to put it together or not. May have to record some more.”

That first sentence isn't qualified with a direct quote from Al. Al's quote simply states there might not be enough to put it together and that they might have to record some more.

Not a retraction so much as an "ooooh,  erm, maybe wait a little longer".

Should this have been in another thread, three days ago?