Jim Gordon drums on "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow"?

[Runaways]

speaking of fire...

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=590333984303&oid=34250497240

COOL. 

[guitarfool2002]

PS - as far as Dennis drumming on those sessions, he could have hit a stick on a single tom and received a drummers credit on the AFM sheet.

You could say that about anybody. I believe Dennis was the drummer on Holidays, and a percussionist on some other Smile tracks.

This is true, I wasn't suggesting anything about Dennis other than to say being listed as playing drums with the AFM could be anything from Jim Gordon or Hal playing full kit to someone tapping out a beat on one drum.

I've heard stories of various smarmy record label types who would come onto a session, sing a few notes that would never be used, and get compensated for it, out of the band's budget and with the union if they were a member! Love the record business...

Looking over various BB AFM sheets, I get the impression Brian used to add names in order to send some extra $$$ someone's way: for example, Chuck Britz is listed as 'leader' on a few (which brought him double union scale on top of his salary from United Western), as is Diane, despite neither of them playing an instrument.

Diane would have been legit, if she were in fact the contractor for the session, which amounted to calling the musicians or their answering service to book them for the gig. That job did get paid a union scale, and if Hal Blaine got the band together he'd collect whatever he made as a musician (eventually double scale just for him and his drums to show up) and a scale payment for being the contractor. Basically if one were generous, and to the point where it wasn't outright fraud, you could list anyone as contractor to get them the extra cash.

I wondered, was Chuck Britz in the musician's union or was he in the electrician's union, or could he be in both?

The Monkees got into some trouble when they credited their engineer Hank Cicalo with writing a song (No Time), as a similar "gift" where he really did nothing! He made enough on the song for a down payment on his house, he claims.

[c-man]

PS - as far as Dennis drumming on those sessions, he could have hit a stick on a single tom and received a drummers credit on the AFM sheet.

You could say that about anybody. I believe Dennis was the drummer on Holidays, and a percussionist on some other Smile tracks.

This is true, I wasn't suggesting anything about Dennis other than to say being listed as playing drums with the AFM could be anything from Jim Gordon or Hal playing full kit to someone tapping out a beat on one drum. 

I've heard stories of various smarmy record label types who would come onto a session, sing a few notes that would never be used, and get compensated for it, out of the band's budget and with the union if they were a member! Love the record business...

Looking over various BB AFM sheets, I get the impression Brian used to add names in order to send some extra $$$ someone's way: for example, Chuck Britz is listed as 'leader' on a few (which brought him double union scale on top of his salary from United Western), as is Diane, despite neither of them playing an instrument.

Diane would have been legit, if she were in fact the contractor for the session, which amounted to calling the musicians or their answering service to book them for the gig. That job did get paid a union scale, and if Hal Blaine got the band together he'd collect whatever he made as a musician (eventually double scale just for him and his drums to show up) and a scale payment for being the contractor. Basically if one were generous, and to the point where it wasn't outright fraud, you could list anyone as contractor to get them the extra cash.

I wondered, was Chuck Britz in the musician's union or was he in the electrician's union, or could he be in both?

The Monkees got into some trouble when they credited their engineer Hank Cicalo with writing a song (No Time), as a similar "gift" where he really did nothing! He made enough on the song for a down payment on his house, he claims.

For Chuck to be listed on the AFM contract, he would have to have been a member of the Musicians Union.  FYI, around the time of the Party! sessions, Brian began the habit of listing the engineer(s) on the AFM contract (Chuck, Bo David, Larry, Jim Hilton), and that tradition continued for some time.  Also the contractors (Diane, later Jon Parks).

[JJ3810]

Funny how Beautiful Dreamer plays it like Hal was there...

EDIT - YES, I know Jim Gordon is in jail for violently relieving himself of female parental guidance.

However, Jim Gordon did come up with one of the more famous piano parts of pop/rock music; the end of 'Layla'.

From the book "Skydog" by Randy Poe:
"In truth, the actual number of composers who contributed to Layla (although offically credited to Eric Clapton and Jim Gordon) might be closer to half a dozen- not only because of the interpolation of "As the Years Go Passing By (the first few notes of the melody became the opening riff to Layla, as played by Duane) but also due to the question of how many people were involved in the creation of the piano piece that makes up the second half of the song. Along with Jim Gordon, two other writers are said to have contributed. "Rita Coolidge wrote that, when we were still with Delaney and Bonnie, up in John Garfield Jr.'s guest house," says Bobby Whitlock. It was a song called 'Time.' The melody was actually a song, but Jim Gordon ripped it off." And according to another source, saxophonist Jim Hord deserves at least partial credit for the piece as well".

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=456175&page=3

[guitarfool2002]

PS - as far as Dennis drumming on those sessions, he could have hit a stick on a single tom and received a drummers credit on the AFM sheet.

You could say that about anybody. I believe Dennis was the drummer on Holidays, and a percussionist on some other Smile tracks.

This is true, I wasn't suggesting anything about Dennis other than to say being listed as playing drums with the AFM could be anything from Jim Gordon or Hal playing full kit to someone tapping out a beat on one drum. 

I've heard stories of various smarmy record label types who would come onto a session, sing a few notes that would never be used, and get compensated for it, out of the band's budget and with the union if they were a member! Love the record business...

Looking over various BB AFM sheets, I get the impression Brian used to add names in order to send some extra $$$ someone's way: for example, Chuck Britz is listed as 'leader' on a few (which brought him double union scale on top of his salary from United Western), as is Diane, despite neither of them playing an instrument.

Diane would have been legit, if she were in fact the contractor for the session, which amounted to calling the musicians or their answering service to book them for the gig. That job did get paid a union scale, and if Hal Blaine got the band together he'd collect whatever he made as a musician (eventually double scale just for him and his drums to show up) and a scale payment for being the contractor. Basically if one were generous, and to the point where it wasn't outright fraud, you could list anyone as contractor to get them the extra cash.

I wondered, was Chuck Britz in the musician's union or was he in the electrician's union, or could he be in both?

The Monkees got into some trouble when they credited their engineer Hank Cicalo with writing a song (No Time), as a similar "gift" where he really did nothing! He made enough on the song for a down payment on his house, he claims.

For Chuck to be listed on the AFM contract, he would have to have been a member of the Musicians Union.  FYI, around the time of the Party! sessions, Brian began the habit of listing the engineer(s) on the AFM contract (Chuck, Bo David, Larry, Jim Hilton), and that tradition continued for some time.  Also the contractors (Diane, later Jon Parks).

I just saw Chuck was a member of Local 47 - I was just wondering since some engineers were members of the electricians' union, I guess depending on where they were working. I've seen Bones Howe credited as well on the musician's list on AFM contracts but not many other engineers/producers unless they played an instrument. I guess Brian was throwing a bone to Chuck that way.

It's interesting how those contracts were filed: the amount of people getting credited could have included the leader, the contractor, the arranger, and the copyist, among others. I've seen musicians take both the leader and contractor payment on AFM sheets besides musician credit, as well as a member of the horn section taking copyist credit if it wasn't done through Bob Ross' business (he pops up too as a member of Local 47), and a musician taking arranger/leader credit as well despite not playing on the date.

I'm wondering if the vocal session sheets show Brian as "arranger", where he'd get paid for it, and I'm also wondering who he'd usually give copyist credit to on his Wrecking Crew dates. It was either Steve Douglas or Hal leading the session...my point being it would be giving a bonus to whoever they chose to credit.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I might be remembering wrong, but I think quite a few Beach Boys sessions are actually noted as having "no arranger or copyist this session" or something to that effect.  Actually, it would not be hard for me to check.  *Goes to check*  Yeah, I was right, verbatim.

[Mike's Beard]

I've heard stories of various smarmy record label types who would come onto a session, sing a few notes that would never be used, and get compensated for it, out of the band's budget and with the union if they were a member! Love the record business...

Ha yeah I think Simon Cowell has done this

Pleeease do not mention that name on this board! Pure scum. 

[guitarfool2002]

I might be remembering wrong, but I think quite a few Beach Boys sessions are actually noted as having "no arranger or copyist this session" or something to that effect.  Actually, it would not be hard for me to check.  *Goes to check*  Yeah, I was right, verbatim.

I saw that too, I guess I was thinking out loud that if Brian had listed Chuck Britz just to throw some money his way, why not list whoever in the horn section transcribed Brian's ideas into notation for the session? I've seen names like Roy Caton appear in this capacity, on non-Brian session sheets. Copyist Bob Ross even shows up on more than one AFM contract I've seen, but that would be something where an outside copyist was needed to prepare charts beforehand where Brian, in my understanding, would work out the parts on the studio floor a lot of times.