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Author Topic: Deciphering "He Gives Speeches" - any Twain experts out there?  (Read 11606 times)
runnersdialzero
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« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2011, 04:07:41 PM »

Don't understand Brian "junking" this one in 2003. It's not brilliance along the lines of "Heroes" or anything, but it's good and it's a lot of fun. Worst Brian song ever? Are you daft, Stuffington?

And hay, we got "She's Goin' Bald" out of it.

There is no way Brian wrote these lyrics. I'll believe a Parks co-write credit on "She's Goin' Bald" over a forty years later "I didn't write them" and a Brian credit on TSS.
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« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2011, 05:39:55 PM »

I love Speeches. When I first heard Smile 10 or so years ago, it was one of my favourite tracks. It could probably be shoehorned into Heroes or Vegetables without too much trouble.

I'm also surprised that Brian gets credit for the lyrics since it feels very "Parksian". Of course, I've always also felt that Vegetables lyrics don't sound "Parksian" at all, so I guess it can be chalked up to confusion.
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« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2011, 05:45:37 PM »

The credits are different for the 2-CD set. Parks is a co-writer of the tune there.
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« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2011, 05:49:56 PM »

With stuff like "Vege-Tables", you have to keep in mind that some of this stuff, lyrically, were Brian/Van Dyke collaborations, and I'm sure Brian wrote more lyrics on some songs than others (and vice versa, obviously).
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« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2011, 02:32:15 AM »

Seems to me that it's at least partly about a famous old man [writer?], now being taken care of and condescended to by a female family member [younger wife? Or daughter with a child of her own] .... All his famous bluster that once moved the crowds now being shouted to an empty room.
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« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2015, 05:04:47 PM »

Ghosts of Smile Threads Past! I'm hoping some of you may chime in with your own thoughts on this matter. Mujan, where are you?

A few of you may remember a couple of posts on the old Smile Shop board speculating that He Gives Speeches is about Mark Twain and may at one time have been intended for Do You Like Worms.  I've long believed in that theory, but haven't been able to solve the complete puzzle.  While some of the lyrics are fairly easily understood, others are difficult.

Here are the lyrics:

* He gives speeches but they put him back in bed
* Where he wrote his satire
(Twain liked to write in bed, but did others in any way "put him" there?)

Maybe it means, that the speeches themselves put him back in bed from exhaustion. Mark Twain didn't enjoy the lecture circuit, and quit it when he was able to afford to. He only did it for the money.
 
* He gives speeches always reaches out a lot
* Led him to discover
(Probably a reference to Twain traveling a lot, and to his evolving views on various issues.)

Seems to fit, I concur.


* Silken hair more silken hair fell on his face
* And no wind was blowing
(This certainly seems to fit Twain.)

I don't think the silken hair is Twain's own,  but more like a seduction.  No wind was blowing? Some say it means corn silk, but How does silk from corn fall on one's face?

* Stepped across the golden fields
(Twain visited the California "gold fields," where many were mining for gold, and wrote about them.)

I've always taken this to mean fields of grain. Could just mean traveling across the country across the range. Twain after his wilder days moved back East and married.


* And saw that she was soon trailing after

I don't get this line.


* She was nice and didn't fight
* He fell into her friendly persuasion
(A reference to his wife?  She had a big impact on his evolving views.)

If only we knew who or what this "she" is a reference to. It seems to me to be the whole key to this song's riddle. Maybe it is his wife who he met at a reunion for passengers of 'The Quaker City', a ship he traveled on for research on the Holy Land  lectures. 'Friendly Persuasion' is a novel and movie about a Quaker family home on the range. Maybe "didn't fight" is a reference to Quaker pacifism. So maybe, the subject falls in love with a Quaker?

* Late that night while by a street light
* Little hands shadowed on the ceiling
(I'm stumped by these lines.)


Maybe Twain's children? A symbol of childhood innocence that the subject has lost?

Or maybe this is all a kind of "based on Mark Twain" situation. Totally made up subject with some of Twain's life mixed up in the stew.


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« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2015, 07:41:39 PM »

Ghosts of Smile Threads Past! I'm hoping some of you may chime in with your own thoughts on this matter. Mujan, where are you?

A few of you may remember a couple of posts on the old Smile Shop board speculating that He Gives Speeches is about Mark Twain and may at one time have been intended for Do You Like Worms.  I've long believed in that theory, but haven't been able to solve the complete puzzle.  While some of the lyrics are fairly easily understood, others are difficult.

Here are the lyrics:

* He gives speeches but they put him back in bed
* Where he wrote his satire
(Twain liked to write in bed, but did others in any way "put him" there?)

Maybe it means, that the speeches themselves put him back in bed from exhaustion. Mark Twain didn't enjoy the lecture circuit, and quit it when he was able to afford to. He only did it for the money.
 
* He gives speeches always reaches out a lot
* Led him to discover
(Probably a reference to Twain traveling a lot, and to his evolving views on various issues.)

Seems to fit, I concur.


* Silken hair more silken hair fell on his face
* And no wind was blowing
(This certainly seems to fit Twain.)

I don't think the silken hair is Twain's own,  but more like a seduction.  No wind was blowing? Some say it means corn silk, but How does silk from corn fall on one's face?

* Stepped across the golden fields
(Twain visited the California "gold fields," where many were mining for gold, and wrote about them.)

I've always taken this to mean fields of grain. Could just mean traveling across the country across the range. Twain after his wilder days moved back East and married.


* And saw that she was soon trailing after

I don't get this line.


* She was nice and didn't fight
* He fell into her friendly persuasion
(A reference to his wife?  She had a big impact on his evolving views.)

If only we knew who or what this "she" is a reference to. It seems to me to be the whole key to this song's riddle. Maybe it is his wife who he met at a reunion for passengers of 'The Quaker City', a ship he traveled on for research on the Holy Land  lectures. 'Friendly Persuasion' is a novel and movie about a Quaker family home on the range. Maybe "didn't fight" is a reference to Quaker pacifism. So maybe, the subject falls in love with a Quaker?

* Late that night while by a street light
* Little hands shadowed on the ceiling
(I'm stumped by these lines.)


Maybe Twain's children? A symbol of childhood innocence that the subject has lost?

Or maybe this is all a kind of "based on Mark Twain" situation. Totally made up subject with some of Twain's life mixed up in the stew.

The value of this is probably less than the proverbial two cents, but "friendly persuasion" is a rhetorical term that predates the book, movie and song of that title. It refers to winning over your audience by "siding" with them, establishing common ground, before discussing something they may not agree with, giving them a social predisposition to agree with you.
Van Dyke Parks talks like someone who made a study of rhetoric.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 07:47:46 PM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2015, 12:14:30 AM »

I've always subscribed to the theory that it's about a baby.  It's up to interpretation, though. 


Brian's humming like a baby crying in the background the whole time.  "Wahhhh, hahhhhh, ahhhhhh dum be dooby doo...."

He gives speeches, but they put him back in bed where he wrote his satire

(Baby babbling, nobody knows what he's saying, they put him back in the crib, he keeps babbling away)

He gives speeches, always reaches out a lot, led him to discover

(Baby reaches out for his mom from the crib, as babies are ought to do)

Silken hair, more silken hair fell on his face, and no wind was blowing

(No wind was blowing, so it's not his hair, it's his mother's hair lying on his face as she holds him to her chest)

Stepped across the golden fields and saw that she was soon trailing after

(Baby runs off somewhere, mother goes following as mothers are ought to do)

She was nice and didn't fight, he fell into her friendly persuasion

(Baby loves his mother, lets her pick him up)

Late that night while by a streetlight, little hands shadowed on the ceiling

(Baby lies in his crib at night making hand  shadows on the ceiling above his crib)



Brian's crying in the background seals the deal for me...
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« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2015, 01:56:03 AM »

The value of this is probably less than the proverbial two cents,

Come on, be a bit less humble!

but "friendly persuasion" is a rhetorical term that predates the book, movie and song of that title. It refers to winning over your audience by "siding" with them, establishing common ground, before discussing something they may not agree with, giving them a social predisposition to agree with you.
Van Dyke Parks talks like someone who made a study of rhetoric.

First thanks for explaining this to me (not a native English speaker). But I wouldn't be surprised at all if VDP had BOTH meanings in mind, the literal meaning that you pointed out, while at the same time referring to the book/film in order to rise visual connotations in the listener's mind. Remember the holocaust/hall a costly double meaning and the bicycle rider image probably referring to the Bicycle Rider Back gambling cards brand.

Even though I'm 100% certain that Brian never intended HGS to sit at this spot, in my own mix I've put it here and I like it. As the song's title is a citation from a poet, the child imagery and the innuendoes to another author quite fit and gives the track more depth. HGS starts at 1:39. What do you think?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 01:58:30 AM by Micha » Logged

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Emily
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« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2015, 06:57:06 AM »

The value of this is probably less than the proverbial two cents,

Come on, be a bit less humble!

but "friendly persuasion" is a rhetorical term that predates the book, movie and song of that title. It refers to winning over your audience by "siding" with them, establishing common ground, before discussing something they may not agree with, giving them a social predisposition to agree with you.
Van Dyke Parks talks like someone who made a study of rhetoric.

First thanks for explaining this to me (not a native English speaker). But I wouldn't be surprised at all if VDP had BOTH meanings in mind, the literal meaning that you pointed out, while at the same time referring to the book/film in order to rise visual connotations in the listener's mind. Remember the holocaust/hall a costly double meaning and the bicycle rider image probably referring to the Bicycle Rider Back gambling cards brand.

Even though I'm 100% certain that Brian never intended HGS to sit at this spot, in my own mix I've put it here and I like it. As the song's title is a citation from a poet, the child imagery and the innuendoes to another author quite fit and gives the track more depth. HGS starts at 1:39. What do you think?
VDP certainly enjoys double meanings and I don't mean to discount a reference to the movie or book.
Regarding the sequence, yours makes great sense to me. I think the interacting reference increase the interest.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 07:06:14 AM by Emily » Logged
Emily
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« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2015, 07:04:00 AM »

The value of this is probably less than the proverbial two cents, but "friendly persuasion" is a rhetorical term that predates the book, movie and song of that title. It refers to winning over your audience by "siding" with them, establishing common ground, before discussing something they may not agree with, giving them a social predisposition to agree with you.
Van Dyke Parks talks like someone who made a study of rhetoric.

The obvious just occurred to me: using a rhetorical term would make particular sense in a lyric that begins with "he gives speeches."
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 07:09:48 AM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2015, 02:06:06 PM »

Someone called me?  Grin

The other thing to consider is that since we have full lyrics for both WORMS and SPEECHES, we can see that the two don't match very well thematically. For as cryptic as Parks lyrics are, there is a consistency in viewpoint and tone within each song. "Cabin Essence" provides the biggest shift in subject matter within a single song, but it's not too much of a stretch to connect a "home on the range" lyric with one describing an early locomotive. SPEECHES just doesn't sound like it fits into a song concerning Manifest Destiny and displacing native people; the tone, in fact, fits better with "Wonderful".

Its not a stretch at all. CE is about the once beautiful landscape ruined by the loud and tumultuous trains. What was once a peaceful meadow filled with reindeer is now a pretty chaotic path, but paradoxically, its this RR that allowed people to travel and build their homes on the range to enjoy those same meadows in the first place. At least thats my take.

Totally agree about Wonderful. Thats where I put HGS, either as the original Wonderful insert or perhaps a second (or first?) half of the song. Once again, Im not musically trained, but the instruments for the Wonderful insert sound like they could go well with the HGS vocals and even backing vocals. HGS doesnt really fit with Wonderful now because the pianos are so different, but a simple rerecording of HGS on Harpsichord or something couldve solved that. The melodies sound similar to me, and the lyrics make sense together as male and female perspectives of a relationship. Heck, the idea someone said about the man in HGS being old and essentially incapacitated and cared for by a young relative could make him the father to the girl in Wonderful too. W's lyrics does mention her getting closer to them after the traumatic experience with the boy. Maybe the HGS lyrics could then lead into H&V or something. Like, we go from the girl's perspective to her fathers as he reflects on his life thus far--in the town of Heroes and Villains. Just an idea. If you take the HGS lyrics to be allusions to Twain, and thus a metaphor for Americana then that could fit with Wonderful too, as many speculate that the girl there is a metaphor for America getting raped by the Europeans.
Seems to me that it's at least partly about a famous old man [writer?], now being taken care of and condescended to by a female family member [younger wife? Or daughter with a child of her own] .... All his famous bluster that once moved the crowds now being shouted to an empty room.

Very interesting, plausible analysis.
I've always subscribed to the theory that it's about a baby.  It's up to interpretation, though. 


Brian's humming like a baby crying in the background the whole time.  "Wahhhh, hahhhhh, ahhhhhh dum be dooby doo...."

He gives speeches, but they put him back in bed where he wrote his satire

(Baby babbling, nobody knows what he's saying, they put him back in the crib, he keeps babbling away)

He gives speeches, always reaches out a lot, led him to discover

(Baby reaches out for his mom from the crib, as babies are ought to do)

Silken hair, more silken hair fell on his face, and no wind was blowing

(No wind was blowing, so it's not his hair, it's his mother's hair lying on his face as she holds him to her chest)

Stepped across the golden fields and saw that she was soon trailing after

(Baby runs off somewhere, mother goes following as mothers are ought to do)

She was nice and didn't fight, he fell into her friendly persuasion

(Baby loves his mother, lets her pick him up)

Late that night while by a streetlight, little hands shadowed on the ceiling

(Baby lies in his crib at night making hand  shadows on the ceiling above his crib)



Brian's crying in the background seals the deal for me...


Ive heard this interpretation before and I like it. It seems to further corroborate the connection to Wonderful, perhaps. The innocence suite thing. Perhaps the girl in Wonderful was impregnated by the boy, and the baby is theirs. Its cool how, depending on how you read it, the boy in HGS could either be her lover, father or child and in each case its plausible and adds a lot to the song, but in different ways.
I love Speeches. When I first heard Smile 10 or so years ago, it was one of my favourite tracks. It could probably be shoehorned into Heroes or Vegetables without too much trouble.

I'm also surprised that Brian gets credit for the lyrics since it feels very "Parksian". Of course, I've always also felt that Vegetables lyrics don't sound "Parksian" at all, so I guess it can be chalked up to confusion.

Disagree. It doesnt fit in Heroes because its describing either the narrator in the third person, or some random guy who has nothing to do with the narrative. I used the lyrics over the fade for fun in one of my mixes, but that was more for fun and because the backing vocals matched as others have pointed out. It doesnt have anything to do with Veggies so doesnt really fit with that either. Speaking of which, I think the Veggie lyrics are very Parksian as you say. Its full of really interesting wordplay and double ententes which neither Mike nor especially Brian seemed capable of.
HGS and the tag to the early H&V are musically the same idea, but it's an idea that runs through many Smile fragments.

I can't hear HGS ever being part of DYLW, or that one grew out of the other.  The two have a completely different feel to each other.

I thought Bicycle rider only became part of H&V when the single mix was produced.  I thought originally it was never intended to be part of H&V.

Someone made a point ( I think it was Cam) that early on,  half the SMiLE songs were probably parts of H&V. 'Half' seems like a big number, but I imagine quite a few sections at least had their origins in H&V. I always thought Bicycle Rider was also the middle section of Worms.
I always thought it was neat how the BV's of 'HGS' were the same  to the BB's vocals on the tag of the Cantina H&V. Must have been a tune Brian couldn't get out of his head.

Agreed. It has nothing to do with Worms, and if it was shoehorned in I think it would have been to the songs detriment. Its a completely unnecessary addition.
Im not sure I agree with that about H&V. We know OMP started off there, and IIGS. As far as I know, thats it. The reason so many pieces have an association with it now is because of all the single-related meddling in '67. If Im wrong, please someone give me a source.
Don't understand Brian "junking" this one in 2003. It's not brilliance along the lines of "Heroes" or anything, but it's good and it's a lot of fun. Worst Brian song ever? Are you daft, Stuffington?

And hay, we got "She's Goin' Bald" out of it.

There is no way Brian wrote these lyrics. I'll believe a Parks co-write credit on "She's Goin' Bald" over a forty years later "I didn't write them" and a Brian credit on TSS.

I agree. Its definitely bottom tier SMiLE, but thats still better than most other music ever composed. I also agree that Parks wrote those lyrics. Theyre undoubtedly his style and no one else's. Compare Brian lyrics like Wind Chimes and Busy Doin Nothing to HGS and the difference is undeniable.
Yeah, I think She's goin' Bald is definitely a case where Mike improved on the original Parks lyrics.  Makes me wish he had taken on some other Smile songs, like Cabinessence!

I wouldnt say improved so much as made better for a specific circumstance. HGS is better for SMiLE, without the Americana context tho SGB is better for a funny laid back album.
Incidentally, although it's doubtful that HGS would have been in a final mix of DYLW, it actually works fairly well as a part of the song.  To me DYLW drags a little bit without lead vocals, but adding in HGS livens it up to the point where the missing vocals aren't really noticeable.

Given that the lyric for "Worms" was entirely different, yes, most doubtful.

Thanks everyone.  Just a single response, and a negative one at that.  Once again, I expressly said that I did NOT think that the finished version of DYLW would have included HGS.  But remember, HGS was recorded early on - 9/1/66, so we can't know what it was intended for.  It certainly could have been part of another song; maybe DYLW even grew out of it.

Anyway, I was hoping to stimulate discussion on what used to be the subject of this board.  Obviously a silly idea.

I'm no muso, but I don't see how "Worms" grew out of "Speeches", given that there's no melodic similarity whatsoever. As to it being part of another song, or even part of Smile at all... well, I'd say the fact that Brian didn't return to it until he was hurting for album material some ten months later is strongly suggestive of the esteem in which he held the piece.

Not so, both are in F. Brian didn't need much more than two sections being the same key to weld them together, so it's not completely out of the realms of possibility - imagine the last bass note slotting into the 'Mahalo Lu Lei' section of Worms...

 Of course, AGD's second point is more pertinent, but Brian obviously didn't forget about it and favoured it over more 'canonical' Smile material for Smiley, which surely says something, and possibly not that he held them in low esteem - Wonderful and Vegetables were songs he obsessed over, for instance.

I enjoyed the lyrical analysis of it, too - I don't have much clue about those lyrics, so them being about Twain would slot it into the Americana vibe into some sort of tangential way....

This is why we need a comprehensive article and/or an in-depth interview about Smiley. Its just as mysterious as SMiLE, and since that album has been talked about to death (guilty Tongue) its actually Smiley thats more interesting to me now in a lot of ways. I wanna know what Brian's motives were for the aesthetic, song choice, title and album art. I wanna know what the other boys thought at the time in detail--were they pissed or relieved or indifferent that SMiLE was canned, and did their attitude change when they heard the new Smiley material? Were they reluctant or thinking "f*** it, we need to get something out"? It does seem odd that certain songs were salvaged but not others, and some of those were top tier while others were bottom of the barrel. If I had to guess, maybe it was the songs that could conceivably work outside the SMiLE context. Veggies was part of Americana, but it works outside that box where Worms and CE do not. Wonderful is part of that Innocence/Life suite, but it works as a standalone ballad where Surfs Up and CIFOTM seem really tied to it.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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