Instruments/Production on Cool Cool Water

[busy doin nothin]

A while back I was on a long drive for work, listening to Sunflower on the car stereo.  As I got to the end and Cool Cool Water came on the skies overhead (it had been a grey winter day) opened somewhat and I could see these massive billowing cloud formations.  The combination of that visual with the sound of Cool Cool Water, which is such an ethereal, beautiful expression of Brian's musical genius, was like a religious epiphany (I am an atheist).

I went back and listened to the song over and over and I was thinking about how much I have always loved the bass playing and the bass sound on it.  I started to fantasize that Brian was playing it.  Does anyone know?

And I also love the sound effects, which seem pretty amazing for the time they were recorded, like the thunder in the "chant" part.  I assume Brian was responsible for the arrangement and production of the sound, but I do not actually know.

[guitarfool2002]

A while back I was on a long drive for work, listening to Sunflower on the car stereo.  As I got to the end and Cool Cool Water came on the skies overhead (it had been a grey winter day) opened somewhat and I could see these massive billowing cloud formations.  The combination of that visual with the sound of Cool Cool Water, which is such an ethereal, beautiful expression of Brian's musical genius, was like a religious epiphany (I am an atheist).

I went back and listened to the song over and over and I was thinking about how much I have always loved the bass playing and the bass sound on it.  I started to fantasize that Brian was playing it.  Does anyone know?

And I also love the sound effects, which seem pretty amazing for the time they were recorded, like the thunder in the "chant" part.  I assume Brian was responsible for the arrangement and production of the sound, but I do not actually know.

Based on what I've read I'd credit Stephen Desper with many if not most of those sound effects and production ideas. After the initial concept from 1966-67 which saw Brian sending Michael Vosse into the street with a tape recorder to capture water sounds, and several early versions, the Sunflower version owes a huge debt to Stephen Desper's use of the Moog synthesizer, side-chaining and triggering and whatever other technological ideas went into that track. And also, if I remember his own writings, didn't Desper also use the "Eltro" vari-speed machine from Smiley Smile fame to vari-speed some of those taped effects? maybe some of that info is still in his archived thread?

The one thing I remember Brian making a point of regarding Cool Cool Water as it was heard on Sunflower was wishing they had not used the chants on the track. That says a lot to me at least, if these were used and Brian did not agree with using them in that context. One for the debates I guess.

[adamghost]

It's a good question about the bass.  Somebody somewhere, and I honestly don't remember who, had said something about Bruce doing quite a bit of bass around that time, basically touching up things Brian would leave unfinished.  I was surprised to hear this, but I'm just passing that on.  Certainly we're learning that the BBs' studio modus operandi around that time was that just about anybody might have been playing anything.  C-Man might well know who did the bass.  It's pretty minimal as I recall, which does point to one of the band being the culprit.

Is there any example of Brian playing bass in studio as late as 1970?  He's credited on "Susie Cincinnati" but Alan Boyd and others have told me they believe that was actually Brian doing the bass line on an organ.

[Andrew G. Doe]

After the initial concept from 1966-67 which saw Brian sending Michael Vosse into the street with a tape recorder to capture water sounds...

Not quite - Brian asked Vosse to tape street sounds, etc., but the water sounds were taped and/or created by SWD, as Brian had asked him to create a 'water machine' he could play. I interviewed Steve in 1985 and he was quite detailed about it: long story short, he prepared several sets of tapes for a Chamberlain, set it up, Brian played it for maybe ten, fifteen minutes, said it was nice, then promptly forgot about it and never used it again.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

PLEASE MORE DETAILS! MORE MINUTIA!

Cool Cool Water is my favorite Beach Boys song of all time and my single favorite recorded production of all time and the chant in the middle is my all time favorite musical moment EVER..... and when that single bass note comes in after the chant and the "doo doo doo doo's ...... well, that's my single favorite bass (even if it is via a moog) moment EVER!

[tpesky]

On Endless Harmony, didn't Bruce say something like he and Al went into the vaults and got Cool Cool Water and finished it?

[Peter Reum]

I agree with Erik that CCW is one of the BBs most outstanding achievements. Lenny Waronker heard Brian do it at the piano in his living room and asked the BBs to put it on Sunflower. Bruce, Carl, and Alan finished what Brian began and added the Water Chants and the synthesizer.When the lyrics date from I am not sure, but it is a great tune! Bruce and Alan are quoted as doing a marathon session to finish it over 36 hours or so.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

It's a good question about the bass.  Somebody somewhere, and I honestly don't remember who, had said something about Bruce doing quite a bit of bass around that time, basically touching up things Brian would leave unfinished.  I was surprised to hear this, but I'm just passing that on.  Certainly we're learning that the BBs' studio modus operandi around that time was that just about anybody might have been playing anything.  C-Man might well know who did the bass.  It's pretty minimal as I recall, which does point to one of the band being the culprit.

Is there any example of Brian playing bass in studio as late as 1970?  He's credited on "Susie Cincinnati" but Alan Boyd and others have told me they believe that was actually Brian doing the bass line on an organ.

The basic track for Suzie definitely has Fender bass on it, and it is definitely not Brian--it's not in his idiom. 

My bet is that Daryl Dragon played a lot of bass around this time, but this has never been definitively confirmed or denied by anybody.

[adamghost]

Sounds right.  And I should have said "A" bass line, not the bass line...

[guitarfool2002]

After the initial concept from 1966-67 which saw Brian sending Michael Vosse into the street with a tape recorder to capture water sounds...

Not quite - Brian asked Vosse to tape street sounds, etc., but the water sounds were taped and/or created by SWD, as Brian had asked him to create a 'water machine' he could play. I interviewed Steve in 1985 and he was quite detailed about it: long story short, he prepared several sets of tapes for a Chamberlain, set it up, Brian played it for maybe ten, fifteen minutes, said it was nice, then promptly forgot about it and never used it again.

If we're talking about the water concept itself (not the Sunflower recording), that was in place during Smile.

Not quite, redux  : This is Vosse in his own words before Sunflower's version of Cool Cool Water was released, talking specifically about water sounds (not street sounds) and Brian's concept of editing them together musically. I'm saying the concept was there in 1967, specifically using the pitch of the water sounds to construct the melody.

Brian had simply asked Desper for something he had already dreamed up with Vosse's water-taping project in mind during Smile. It just took a few years and a creative engineer to try to make it happen.

The excerpt from the Vosse article, 1969:

[Andrew G. Doe]

Interview with SWD, March 1985:

AGD: To my knowledge, you first worked for Brian when you mixed Friends in stereo..

SWD: Officially, but I'd done some work for Brian way before that... I guess it must've been during the Smile period. I made a water machine for him. It was a very interesting project but unfortunately he was undergoing one of his more superstitious phases, and I got fired. All I said as I was leaving one day was "have a nice evening" - and that was it, I was out ! he got over it in a month of so...

Anyway, this machine was a Chamberlain, very much like a mellotron... and Brian wanted to be able to play water drops on it. So I hiked up into the mountains and recorded all kinds of waterfalls, babbling brooks and so forth, then back in town I recorded stuff like water dripping into saucers - and believe me, that's hard to do - and air bubbling up through 20 gallons of goo that I mixed up in an old oil drum. Reels of stuff like that, and I took all these different water sounds to a friend who'd invented a machine - and remember this was way back before EMUs and Fairlights - that was like a harmoniser, only a lot more sophisticated because it was mechanical. It was used in movies and what it could do was change the pitch of something without altering its duration. So, I took single water drops and all the other noises, put them through the machine and made 25 copies, each a half step in the musical scale, so Brian would have two and a half octaves per sound, i think. All this took three, four months, and at the end of it you could sit down at the Chamberlain and play four or five different kind of water noises - single drops, running streams, waterfalls, gloops. And of course, unlike the early synthesizers, you could play chords. So I set it up in a studio, Brian comes in, played it for five, ten minutes, said it was very nice, and never touched it again

[Sam_BFC]

I wonder what became of it?? 

Very nice story AGD

[Andrew G. Doe]

I wonder what became of it?? 

Very nice story AGD

Steve remembers the tapes were all wiped, hence when it came the time to do "CCW" they had to do the drip-drops on a Moog.

[bgas]

I wonder what became of it??  

Very nice story AGD

Steve remembers the tapes were all wiped, hence when it came the time to do "CCW" they had to do the drip-drops on a Moog.

After the initial concept from 1966-67 which saw Brian sending Michael Vosse into the street with a tape recorder to capture water sounds...

Not quite - Brian asked Vosse to tape street sounds, etc., but the water sounds were taped and/or created by SWD, as Brian had asked him to create a 'water machine' he could play. I interviewed Steve in 1985 and he was quite detailed about it: long story short, he prepared several sets of tapes for a Chamberlain, set it up, Brian played it for maybe ten, fifteen minutes, said it was nice, then promptly forgot about it and never used it again.

If we're talking about the water concept itself (not the Sunflower recording), that was in place during Smile.

Not quite, redux  : This is Vosse in his own words before Sunflower's version of Cool Cool Water was released, talking specifically about water sounds (not street sounds) and Brian's concept of editing them together musically. I'm saying the concept was there in 1967, specifically using the pitch of the water sounds to construct the melody.

Brian had simply asked Desper for something he had already dreamed up with Vosse's water-taping project in mind during Smile. It just took a few years and a creative engineer to try to make it happen.

The excerpt from the Vosse article, 1969:

So which is it? it seems there are two stories, basically covering the same subject.
A; Vosse  recorded all that himself, WITH Brian alongside;
B; Desper Re-recorded and expanded on what Vosse had done, and then rigged it to a machine.

Some truth to both stories, or one( maybe both) are using info they had from the other ?
I'd guess it's not impossible that Brian had them both do the same thing at different times...

[guitarfool2002]

I wonder what became of it?? 

Very nice story AGD

And the Vosse story wasn't as nice??? 

[guitarfool2002]

Here's the way I see it spread out on this page, from the Vosse clip I posted to the Desper clip from AGD's archives:

It's the same story, basically, with the same concept, the same execution, Desper's experience went a step further to actually make it a reality (again he was the creative engineer necessary to make ideas like this happen in reality), and the end point of both tales is that Brian either forgot about it or didn't bother to follow up at all with the ideas.

Again, please chime in, does it not sound VERY much alike to have Brian assigning Vosse the task of recording water in 1967 with an idea of making music based on the pitches of water, then assigning Desper the same job with different locations!

Would the possibility exist that Vosse and Desper were indeed on the same job at the same time, if Desper's suggestion he was working with Brian during Smile is correct in the timeline?

It's all there in black and white.

[guitarfool2002]

I'd also add Michael Vosse is quoted in the Byron Preiss book saying this:

"Brian sent me out with a tape recorder to tape water sounds - all kinds of water. He wanted to do a thing with natural sounds. He had me go out and get the sounds of sports - basketballs bouncing...somewhere there are two huge stacks of tape."

Consider this - there IS audio evidence of at least part of what Vosse says he recorded at that time. Whatever else remains of the "huge stacks of tape" is anyone's guess. Also, the first story quote I posted is from 1969. Preiss grabbed quotes from a lot of places but none later than 1978 obviously, so Vosse isn't making claims too far beyond the actual events took place, especially the 1969 article which details even the brand of tape machine Brian gave him to record the sounds and specific places he recorded the water sounds.

[The Shift]

Is it possible that tapes from both sources were used in the final released version of CCW? There are Moog like noises, others that might be a Chamberlain rigged to play auto-tuned (sorry!) water sound effects, and also  the sound of flowing water (at 3.30, immediately after the water chant).

It's many years since I've heard this on vinyl -  been stuck with CDs for many years  now -  but I do remember the first time I played Sunflower on my mother's high-end hi-fi (a special treat -  I was young, she had to be present to prevent me wrecking the thing; I'd only heard Sunflower on a small mono box record player until that day) and being blown away by all the water sound  effects.  Foremost among those memories is what seemed to be the sound of water being poured from a jug. I don't hear this at all in the CD version. Is my memory faulty, is the CD and inadequate medium, or has it somehow been lost from the remastered version along the way? (was the wrong mix remastered?). Thoughts, facts and opinions welcomed!

[Roger Ryan]

...Foremost among those memories is what seemed to be the sound of water being poured from a jug.

A similar sound effect (water being poured into a glass) is heard on the SMILEY SMILE version of "Vegetables"; could this be what you're remembering?

[The Shift]

I know the one you mean... pretty sure it was CCW simply because of the way it blew me away and lodged in my mind (like the first time I heard GVs, S's Up and others)  but then it was a long time ago!  I keep promising myself that I'll get the old turntable up and running again... perhaps this will be the motivator!

[Andrew G. Doe]

Is it possible that tapes from both sources were used in the final released version of CCW?

Steve stated (as I said) that the Chamberlain tapes he spent months preparing were wiped.

[bgas]

Is it possible that tapes from both sources were used in the final released version of CCW?

Steve stated (as I said) that the Chamberlain tapes he spent months preparing were wiped.

Brian said the Fire Tapes were burned.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Is it possible that tapes from both sources were used in the final released version of CCW?

Steve stated (as I said) that the Chamberlain tapes he spent months preparing were wiped.

Brian said the Fire Tapes were burned.

Last time I looked, Stephen W. Desper wasn't Brian D. Wilson.

[bgas]

Is it possible that tapes from both sources were used in the final released version of CCW?

Steve stated (as I said) that the Chamberlain tapes he spent months preparing were wiped.

Brian said the Fire Tapes were burned.

Last time I looked, Stephen W. Desper wasn't Brian D. Wilson.

And Stephen W Desper is nowhere near being Brian D Wilson  for sure.
But since I'm not trying to be coy, I'll jump right in with " memories are funny things".
Maybe the water tapes were wiped. Maybe he did it himself, tho he/you didn't say that.
Maybe Brian told him he had wiped the tapes and he didn't.
Maybe Steve is mis-remembering and it was some other tapes that were wiped. There's tons of possibilities here.
In the length of time between the taping/wiping and when he talked to you, his memories may have changed. 
I've asked him specifics about recordings he worked on, that he says he has absolutely no recollection of.  Just saying. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Is it possible that tapes from both sources were used in the final released version of CCW?

Steve stated (as I said) that the Chamberlain tapes he spent months preparing were wiped.

Brian said the Fire Tapes were burned.

Last time I looked, Stephen W. Desper wasn't Brian D. Wilson.

And Stephen W Desper is nowhere near being Brian D Wilson  for sure.
But since I'm not trying to be coy, I'll jump right in with " memories are funny things".
Maybe the water tapes were wiped. Maybe he did it himself, tho he/you didn't say that.
Maybe Brian told him he had wiped the tapes and he didn't.
Maybe Steve is mis-remembering and it was some other tapes that were wiped. There's tons of possibilities here.
In the length of time between the taping/wiping and when he talked to you, his memories may have changed. 
I've asked him specifics about recordings he worked on, that he says he has absolutely no recollection of.  Just saying. 

Maybe if my aunt had wheels, she'd be a bicycle.

Fact is, when time came to do "C,CW", the tapes were nowhere to be found, which is why they weren't used.

Also, just checked out the song in question - yes, there is the sound of water being poured at 3.30, and I'm betting they got that by recording the sound of water being poured... but not in 1966/7.