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Author Topic: What Music is Being Made in This Video?  (Read 8869 times)
Loaf
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« on: January 14, 2011, 01:53:51 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWOsX5g1Gho&NR=1

Similarly to the Wake the World video thread, I love watching footage of the BBs like this. The footage of them recording in the studio (brian's home studio?) is tantalising seeing as iy (obviously) doesn't match up with the song being played.

So does anyone know what songs are being recorded in this footage? Bruce has a moustache, so would that place it as late 67-68?

I like to picture the BBs recording their songs in the studio as I listen to them, so is this what Friends looked like?
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2011, 02:28:26 AM »

Tough call -  judging by the dress changes, it's almost certain that several sessions – and therefore potentially several songs – feature. Mike even seems to go through a change in beard style (though that might be attributed to the poor picture quality).

Any lip-readers? The clips of Al seem to be the best bet as most vocal clips look to be backing vix. Guitarists might recognise the chords from the fret fingering?

I think these clips first appeared in the American Band doc in 85.
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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2011, 02:30:16 AM »

When the video-biog "An American Band" was being put together, there was quite a bit of mute/mismatching footage, so the producers got people in to work out what was being played... which is why they synched up this to "Time To Get Alone" (albeit a somewhat bizarre 'upside-down' mix of the song). October 2nd & 4th 1968 - oddly, the previous session, on the 1st, was "ICHM" !.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 02:32:54 AM by Andrew G. Doe » Logged

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Loaf
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2011, 03:50:37 AM »

Oh to be Stephen Desper!

Is this the scene of the (in)famous Living Room #1s?
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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2011, 07:12:50 AM »

Oh to be Stephen Desper!

Is this the scene of the (in)famous Living Room #1s?

If you check the recent Desper thread archive he comments on a few screenshots of this very video.
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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2011, 12:52:06 PM »

Tough call -  judging by the dress changes, it's almost certain that several sessions – and therefore potentially several songs – feature. Mike even seems to go through a change in beard style (though that might be attributed to the poor picture quality).

Any lip-readers? The clips of Al seem to be the best bet as most vocal clips look to be backing vix. Guitarists might recognise the chords from the fret fingering?

I think these clips first appeared in the American Band doc in 85.

Al's doing a very basic rhythm blues riff, moving from G to F.  Carl appears to be soloing in E (with cigarette in hand) at the end.  I'd always assumed based on the way everyone's jumping around that a lot of this was recording "All I Want To Do."  That's the right tempo and riff but the wrong key for what Al's playing.  It does move from F to G at one point, but not the other way as far as I can tell.

Cycling through the songs from the 20/20 CD, the only song that seems to fit to my ears is "Celebrate The News."  This song moves from G to F frequently in the verses.  Also, isn't there a split second shot of both Dennis and Carl playing the drums at one point?  That would fit with some of the overdubs at the end of the song.  The Carl guitar part could be from a different song, or there does sound like there's a high guitar line (though it could also be a string line) mixed way in the back that roughly corresponds to what he's playing on that one shot.

But as for what Al's playing my money is on "Celebrate," and it would make sense given the high level of Dennis seen in the video.  It's also possible it's some other song recorded around that time that's not on the 20/20 CD.
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Roger Ryan
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2011, 01:01:44 PM »

Much like the "behind-the-scenes" footage of Brian recording in recent years, much of this could have been staged for the camera. Perhaps Adam or others involved in recording could comment, but would a band seriously attempt a take with a film camera sputtering away near the microphones? I imagine the intrusive noise (however muffled) would spoil the recording.
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2011, 01:16:56 PM »

That's a good question.  My sense is that some of it is staged but that most of it is authentic.  What you say is true but also think of it this way:  you're a busy band and it's hard to get all the members together at once.  You've got to do a video but you really can't be bothered to take a day to film it.  The simplest thing is to invite a camera guy to an already-scheduled session, let him prowl around, watch you do a few things, and then let him shoot a few individual shots when the other people are occupied elsewhere.  Even if it disrupts the session you're saving the band's time overall because you're killing two birds with one stone, instead of having to get everyone together for a separate shoot.

Looking at the video, the backing vocal shots look authentic...and may have only been taken of one five minute vocal session (although I didn't pay attention to how the band was dressed, so someone else can correct me if they changed clothes).  The way Dennis swoops in looks like a calculated vocal blending move, not something you'd do for the cameras; likewise the differences in distance of the singers to the mic -- very important for vocal blending (quiet parts closer, louder parts further away). You wouldn't bother with this for a lip sync.  Bruce's keyboard shots look authentic.  He's the only one framed, and he looks focused on what he's doing, not that he's being filmed.  The Carl open air shot is probably authentic, because there's no reason for it otherwise.  The shot is used to briefly to have been staged.  The Carl-Dennis drum shot looks authentic...same reason.

The ending Carl lead guitar shot WAS staged, and I should have noticed it earlier...Carl's not wearing headphones.  Ditto his solo singing shots towards the end -- in fact those don't look like they're from the studio at all.  They look like they're lifted from a lip sync for a different shoot.

Most of the video strikes me as authentic studio footage.  The band looks preoccupied, they're wearing headphones in nearly every shot, and it all tracks to me.  I'm not as certain about the places where Carl and Al are playing guitar, but the rest of it looks pretty much right to me....and it also comprises very brief amounts of footage.  It could easily have been done in one day, with the cameraman only doing his thing for five minutes at a time.  Al's guitar playing looks like it could be authentic, but on second glance it does look like he's playing too fast for it to be "Celebrate The News."

I can tell you I've had camera people on me when I'm rehearsing and doing other stuff and if they're good filmmakers and you are preoccupied with what they're doing you forget they're there pretty fast, other than being sure not to say anything really utterly stupid.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 01:20:00 PM by adamghost » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2011, 01:53:46 PM »

Just checked the 1985 American Band footage - Carl is definitely singing "TTGA" as is Alan (tshirt, red guitar)... but as has been pointed out, in the "ICHM" promo, some of that footage is from other sessions.
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2011, 04:13:03 PM »

Yeah, I thought I remembered that...but TTGA is the wrong key for Al to be playing in on the guitar.

I suspect the b. vox might be for TTGA too, but the double drumming with Carl and Dennis, coupled with that G to F thing, really made me suspect "Celebrate The News" for at least some of this footage.  Suggestively, according to AGD's estimable website, "Celebrate" was recorded the week prior to "I Can Hear Music"'s release as a single.  BUT on further review, two strikes against that theory in that this footage all looks done at Brian's studio (from what I can tell), and AGD indicates "Celebrate" was at Sunset Sound.  Also it was recorded after 20/20 was released, and so long after TTGA was recorded.

So how about they're doing the drums for "I Can Hear Music."  There's a very minimal drum beat on it...no bass drum...and Carl produced it, so that's believable.  And AGD's site suggests that "Time To Get Alone" was worked on the very next day.  A possible explanation for Al's chords being off would be if the band recorded the song in C and sped it up to D. There's some likelihood this is the case since in this 1969 video the band is clearly playing the song in the key of C:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hweXcgF1DRI

And as far I know the band always played it live in C.  If played in C, the song would have one very brief passage going from G to F, right before "I never had a love of my own."  The tempo is close.  I don't HEAR an electric guitar on this track, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.  There's a wall of rhythm and Al's Tele could easily be in there somewhere.

Assuming this is the right answer, then what songs are being played in the remainder of the footage?  We have:

Dennis playing something looking like the bongos;
Carl playing a telecaster, sliding up on the 10th  to 12th frets (D to E)
Mike eating some bongos (let's ignore this)
Carl playing a Tele again, with Mike and Dennis in the background.  No headphones, so this looks like practice.  Seems to be shortly after the earlier shot, so let's assume it's not relevant.
Bruce playing a Fender Rhodes, notably in the upper midrange register (you'd hear this).
Dennis playing drums at a faster tempo than "I Can Hear Music."
Mike playing a tambourine (did he ever actually play on any of their records though?...the one shot later in the video certainly looks legit)?
Carl and Dennis playing drums...AND...duh duh duh!  It almost exactly matches the "I Can Hear Music" tempo!

So we've accounted for the double drums and the Al's guitar..."I Can Hear Music".  There's ample tambourine on the track for that to account for Mike's playing.  That leaves Bruce's electric piano...can we account for that on any recording around that period???

I was just about to go out on a limb and suggest that the Oct. 1 and 2 sessions were the ones filmed for the video when -- DUH DUH DUH -- AGD's website already tells us that the Oct. 2 session was filmed.  Which makes me feel pretty smart and stupid at the same time.  Anyway, it suggests that they probably were there on the 1st as well.

Anyway, I'd lay money that the parts I referenced above were recorded for "I Can Hear Music", not "Time To Get Alone", and that they recorded the basic track in C and then sped it up (possibly before putting the drums on, accounting for the tempo being about right).  I can't account for Bruce's electric piano but it could be buried somewhere in the track for TTGA, doubling Brian's piano.  Although if I was just going by music alone, I'd suspect that the Bruce electric piano track was either for "The Nearest Faraway Place" or (perhaps more likely given the way he's playing it) "Cotton Fields."  Those are the only two with prominent upper register Rhodes that I recall from that era.  No idea about the brief shut of Dennis drumming at fast tempo.

And I was all wet on "Celebrate The News."  Once again, shoulda checked with AGD.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 04:18:46 PM by adamghost » Logged
adamghost
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2011, 04:21:40 PM »

btw, if I'm right, that means we have a(nother?) credit for Carl on drums on record.  (for "I Can Hear Music.")
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2011, 05:25:49 PM »

Adam, I know this is dragging the discussion into the territory of annoying minutia: but is there really no bass drum on I Can Hear Music or did they just forget it in the mix like too many recordings (with many bands) of the era? I can swear it's Dennis doing 4 X4 on the kick and 2 and 4 on the snare and floor tom (which is what he's doing in the Olympia footage) ..... Does this matter? No, but I'm too steeped in minutia to ever find my way back out of the woods.
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2011, 05:42:32 PM »

I know that when we worked it out for the Carl Wilson Foundation video, both Kurt and I were surprised to note that neither of us heard a bass drum, just what we perceived to be a snare and floor tom on the 2 and 4 with one break (before the breakdown).  This would very closely track what we see in the footage of Carl and Dennis in the video...plus, as I said, it's almost exactly in tempo.

I mean, anything's possible, but I listened in vain for that bass drum when we worked it out for the band.  My ears are pretty good...HOWEVER, having said that, I've been known to miss really obvious sh*t, so they're not flawless.

One thing that occurs to me is that they clearly were trying to get footage of each member playing, so it's possible that Al and Bruce were overdubbing to "I Can Hear Music" but that their parts (or at least Bruce's) were not used.  Certainly it's a very basic sounding track so it's possible that they added more stuff and then stripped it out later.
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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2011, 08:23:59 PM »

Very nice footage, an extension of what is on AB.

For such a long-standing, prolific group, I have always lamented the shocking lack of photographic representation of them in the recording studio.  There are a few nice shots of them singing, but other than a few of those Party shots, and some shots of very early sessions and then quite late, 70s/80s stuff, there really aren't ANY good photos of the band playing instruments on the studio in circulation or published.  How can this be?  Anybody ever seen 60s Dennis behind the tubs in the studio?  Anybody ever seen 60s Al playing guitar or bass in the studio?  Carl, other than what's mentioned above of those few Rickenbacker in the control room shots?  It's shocking, sad, disconcerting, and tear-inducing for me that this is the case.  First on my wish list would be photos of the RCA Dance, Dance, Dance session with all the guys on instruments plus Hal, Ray, and Glen.  Whew.
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2011, 02:14:46 AM »

Anyone here know how to rip the "TTGA" sequence from American Band and put it up [koff] somewhere ?  For comparison and research purposes only, of course.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 02:17:54 AM by Andrew G. Doe » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2011, 08:17:30 AM »

One thing that occurs to me is that they clearly were trying to get footage of each member playing, so it's possible that Al and Bruce were overdubbing to "I Can Hear Music" but that their parts (or at least Bruce's) were not used.  Certainly it's a very basic sounding track so it's possible that they added more stuff and then stripped it out later.

Why do you say Bruce's part wasn't used?  I can clearly hear an electric keyboard on ICHM.  Furthermore, the session tapes reveal the song was recorded in layers...one layer has Carl on guitar (electric if I remember correctly), Dennis on acoustic piano, and Bruce on the electric keyboard (probably an RMI Roxichord...which may be the keyboard he's seen playing in the video...a red one IIRC ?).  Also on that layer:  drums, played by someone whose voice I don't recognize (like a John Guerin or an Earl Palmer, likely).  But since that layer is clearly an overdub, there almost certainly would've been drums on the basic track to keep the tempo locked.
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« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2011, 08:20:28 AM »

Very nice footage, an extension of what is on AB.

For such a long-standing, prolific group, I have always lamented the shocking lack of photographic representation of them in the recording studio.  There are a few nice shots of them singing, but other than a few of those Party shots, and some shots of very early sessions and then quite late, 70s/80s stuff, there really aren't ANY good photos of the band playing instruments on the studio in circulation or published.  How can this be?  Anybody ever seen 60s Dennis behind the tubs in the studio?  Anybody ever seen 60s Al playing guitar or bass in the studio?  Carl, other than what's mentioned above of those few Rickenbacker in the control room shots?  It's shocking, sad, disconcerting, and tear-inducing for me that this is the case.  First on my wish list would be photos of the RCA Dance, Dance, Dance session with all the guys on instruments plus Hal, Ray, and Glen.  Whew.

The shots from the "Party!" sessions are great...lots of pics with Carl & Al playing amplified acoustic guitars, Bruce and Brian both playing bass (at different times), one shot of Dennis on the bongos, and one shot of Brian testing a whole handful of harmonicas. 
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adamghost
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« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2011, 01:14:03 PM »

One thing that occurs to me is that they clearly were trying to get footage of each member playing, so it's possible that Al and Bruce were overdubbing to "I Can Hear Music" but that their parts (or at least Bruce's) were not used.  Certainly it's a very basic sounding track so it's possible that they added more stuff and then stripped it out later.

Why do you say Bruce's part wasn't used?  I can clearly hear an electric keyboard on ICHM.  Furthermore, the session tapes reveal the song was recorded in layers...one layer has Carl on guitar (electric if I remember correctly), Dennis on acoustic piano, and Bruce on the electric keyboard (probably an RMI Roxichord...which may be the keyboard he's seen playing in the video...a red one IIRC ?).  Also on that layer:  drums, played by someone whose voice I don't recognize (like a John Guerin or an Earl Palmer, likely).  But since that layer is clearly an overdub, there almost certainly would've been drums on the basic track to keep the tempo locked.

You have the advantage on me here...I don't have access to the information you have, just going by what I see and hear.

I can answer your question about Bruce though...I listened to ICHM through the headphones and I can't pick out an electric keyboard as certainly as you can, but I agree there could be something organ-like in there somewhere (and apparently is, though I don't hear the piano either).  But the keyboard in the video looks like a Rhodes to me...granted, it's just flashes and I'm no vintage keyboard expert, but the knobs, top, etc., look like a Rhodes, and he's playing it like a Rhodes.  A Rhodes has a completely different sound from an organ or organ-like electric keyboard...and, he's playing some kind of arpeggiated thing in the upper midrange of the keyboard.  There's no way THAT part is on the finished record.  That would stick out; you'd hear it against the straight 4s of the track.  To be playing an organ-type part, he'd be holding down chords, not moving his hand around like that.

Also:  if the tracks are layered as you say, that means unless they were bounced (and if they were no reason to have three different people playing the instruments), they'd all be playing at the same time.  The Bruce shot shows him playing solo.  Now, that doesn't mean that there aren't other people in other parts of the room playing along with him our of camera range, but it looks like a guy overdubbing his own part, just from body language.  It's not conclusive, of course.  Either way, I don't buy that he's playing a part that wound up on the finished mix of "I Can Hear Music." 

My theory is that the session you refer to took place early on Oct. 1, and then they moved on to overdubs later that day, at which point the camera crews showed up.  There's nothing we see, except for the brief shot of Dennis drumming that could be from anywhere, that looks like people laying down a basic track.  Everything looks like they're overdubbing to a track that's already there.

So what are on the other layers (tracks)?  That would help clear up the question....not conclusively, since they would have probably wiped unused tracks, but we could match them to what we see.  If there's no drum overdub, then that makes it less likely they're playing "I Can Hear Music."

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« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2011, 01:27:09 AM »

Tough call -  judging by the dress changes, it's almost certain that several sessions – and therefore potentially several songs – feature. Mike even seems to go through a change in beard style (though that might be attributed to the poor picture quality).

Any lip-readers? The clips of Al seem to be the best bet as most vocal clips look to be backing vix. Guitarists might recognise the chords from the fret fingering?

I think these clips first appeared in the American Band doc in 85.

Al's doing a very basic rhythm blues riff, moving from G to F.  Carl appears to be soloing in E (with cigarette in hand) at the end.  I'd always assumed based on the way everyone's jumping around that a lot of this was recording "All I Want To Do."  That's the right tempo and riff but the wrong key for what Al's playing.  It does move from F to G at one point, but not the other way as far as I can tell.

Cycling through the songs from the 20/20 CD, the only song that seems to fit to my ears is "Celebrate The News."  This song moves from G to F frequently in the verses.  Also, isn't there a split second shot of both Dennis and Carl playing the drums at one point?  That would fit with some of the overdubs at the end of the song.  The Carl guitar part could be from a different song, or there does sound like there's a high guitar line (though it could also be a string line) mixed way in the back that roughly corresponds to what he's playing on that one shot.

But as for what Al's playing my money is on "Celebrate," and it would make sense given the high level of Dennis seen in the video.  It's also possible it's some other song recorded around that time that's not on the 20/20 CD.
It's posts like these that make me wish I were a musician.  Grin
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2011, 10:01:21 AM »

Duh ! Sometimes I should check my own website...  Thud

Also recorded October 2 1968, basic track for "Be With Me".
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« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2011, 10:42:38 PM »

Duh ! Sometimes I should check my own website...  Thud

Also recorded October 2 1968, basic track for "Be With Me".

Whose chorus goes from G to F repeatedly (albeit with a C in the bass for the F chord, but that probably would not affect the guitar part)

Bah.  I am a moron.
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« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2011, 10:48:41 PM »

It's also conceivable the piano track on "Be With Me" is doubled with a Rhodes.  It's hard to tell, I can only hear a piano for certain, but there is a certain bell-like resonance early in the track that suggests a Rhodes.  And it would be the octave above middle C, where Bruce is seen playing.

It still doesn't match the part that Bruce seems to be playing to me, but I'd buy that more than "I Can Hear Music."
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« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2011, 05:46:56 AM »

It's also conceivable the piano track on "Be With Me" is doubled with a Rhodes.  It's hard to tell, I can only hear a piano for certain, but there is a certain bell-like resonance early in the track that suggests a Rhodes.  And it would be the octave above middle C, where Bruce is seen playing.

It still doesn't match the part that Bruce seems to be playing to me, but I'd buy that more than "I Can Hear Music."

Bingo...awhile back (2006 to be precise) there was a post here from Alan Boyd, where he described the bounce-down on "Be With Me", including the track assignments, one of which was for "Rhodes".  And Bruce Johnston is listed among the musicians on the AFM contract (so are Ed Carter and Mike Kowalski).  Only slight problem is that, according to the liners of "Hawthorne, California", "Be With Me" was recorded at Capitol's Studio B.  However...the location on the AFM contract is Brian's studio.  Possible explanation is that the tracking session occurred at Brian's, with final production (overdubs, mix, whaterver) at Capitol Studio B.  The massive echo on the track sure sounds more like something they'd get from the chambers at the Tower than at Bellagio.
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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2011, 07:39:06 AM »

  10/2/68 - basic track at the home studio

  11/2/68 - session at Capitol (I'm guessing for the string/horn overdubs)
 11/11/68 - session at 10452 (with "Fig Plucker")... vocals ?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 07:48:29 AM by Andrew G. Doe » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2011, 11:39:10 AM »

By the way-you can see in the video that at least two days were shot. Note that in the earlier footage Bruce has a stache, which he has shaved off two days later. 
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