The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961

[bgas]

Anyway, anybody wanna discuss Candix matrix numbers for the "Surfin'" single? 

Isn't that something you really only do with Brad?

[Andrew G. Doe]

When I heard that Eugene Dennis interview from 1977, I also thought he'd misplaced the facts and didn't think much of it. This was a little before or after the KOME San Jose interview when he said something odd and I thought his memory was a little goofy. It's not really conclusive, but now I wonder if he was telling it like it was. Just like when he was recounting in the It's OK TV special "My Dad worked at "Air Research" and Friday nights sitting in the back of the car driving home singing harmony - and "Come Down, Come down from your Ivory Tower". His memory was pretty good there.

Anyway, anybody wanna discuss Candix matrix numbers for the "Surfin'" single? 

One thing that's always struck me about the Wilson brothers: considering how devotedly and repeatedly they fried their synapses, they have astonishing memories.

[Jon Stebbins]

The "Labor Day" incident was almost certainly pivotal for Murry, though, in that it marks the point that HE started taking the whole thing seriously, and really, from his perspective, that's all that would matter.  So when the story of the band was told, it makes sense that that event would be ground zero in Murry's telling of the tale.

Right on Adam. I think you've hit on something very logical here.

[Mikie]

Isn't that something you really only do with Brad?

Nah, Brad ain't around anymore.  But there's a few others here who have the Candix 301 and 331 singles.......maybe we can compare notes here. 

[Carrie Marks]

The "Labor Day" incident was almost certainly pivotal for Murry, though, in that it marks the point that HE started taking the whole thing seriously, and really, from his perspective, that's all that would matter.  So when the story of the band was told, it makes sense that that event would be ground zero in Murry's telling of the tale.

I agree with everything you say about how the various guys got together in various configurations prior to officially launching the band, however I do disagree with the last paragraph. I think Murry was a lot more deliberate than that when he came up with the "Labor Day" story to tell the band's genesis.

If that was the story he believed why didn't he tell it that way from the beginning?  He had one story of how the band began from 1962-1964 that included David and not Al. And the from '64 on you start hearing the story told with Al and not David.  His story changes as a matter of convenience.

Even after Al came back and was touring with David, you don't see him in any of the band's promo, he's not credited on the album covers, he was not part of the band's National TV debut and was not invited on the larger venues - such as the Cow Palace and the 2nd  Fred Vail show. It seems odd that Murry would consider Al the original and David his replacement (as he would come to tell the story) and then include David, not Al, on the high profile appearance. 

[Carrie Marks]

Dorinda Morgan, in Byron Preiss' book recalls "Murry called us up and said 'see if you can do something with him (Brian), Audree & I are going to Mexico City'". Annoyingly, no source notes are provided.

I'm not as keen on my Candix history as I should be, but why would Murry tell Dorinda Morgan that he was going to Mexico?

I thought the 1st he knew about Surfin' was AFTER they got back from Mexico / England and found out the grocery money was spent on instruments.  Was Murry already trying to get Brian a deal with Candix before any instruments were rented / bought and Surfin' written?

I have a vague memory that Murry was allegedly mad when he found out the boys spent the money on gear but then eased up after he heard the potential once he heard them play Surfin'...is that wrong?  Again, it seems odd Murry would be actively seeking a record deal for Brian on his way out the door for Mexico and then be upset he spent the time they were gone pursuing music.  Is there a definitive time line for when Murry began shopping the band?

[Carrie Marks]

If you take the John Maus story as fact, that changes the whole perception of what really transpired, and basically, I Think, throws out the whole Europe/Mexico story. The BBs, using whatever/no name, were rehearsing in this garage and subsequently, recorded Surfin with the Morgans.  If they're rehearsing in the garage, then they already have instruments. 

David has maintained all along that he rehearsed Surfin' with the band prior to them recording it which is why he was so hurt when they recorded it without him.  Even if you take the official story as gospel and the song evolved on Labor Day weekend while the Wilsons were away then John and Gary's recollection, at the very least, shows that the "Beach Boys" between the time the song was written and when it was recorded included both Al AND David, depending on the day.

[bgas]

The "Labor Day" incident was almost certainly pivotal for Murry, though, in that it marks the point that HE started taking the whole thing seriously, and really, from his perspective, that's all that would matter.  So when the story of the band was told, it makes sense that that event would be ground zero in Murry's telling of the tale.

I agree with everything you say about how the various guys got together in various configurations prior to officially launching the band, however I do disagree with the last paragraph. I think Murry was a lot more deliberate than that when he came up with the "Labor Day" story to tell the band's genesis.

If that was the story he believed why didn't he tell it that way from the beginning?  He had one story of how the band began from 1962-1964 that included David and not Al. And the from '64 on you start hearing the story told with Al and not David.  His story changes as a matter of convenience.

Even after Al came back and was touring with David, you don't see him in any of the band's promo, he's not credited on the album covers, he was not part of the band's National TV debut and was not invited on the larger venues - such as the Cow Palace and the 2nd  Fred Vail show. It seems odd that Murry would consider Al the original and David his replacement (as he would come to tell the story) and then include David, not Al, on the high profile appearance. 

What we have is Murry happy with whomever is in the band, as long as it's his sons and "his" band, until Dave goes head to head with Murry. Then, after Dave leaves,  Murry concocts his "new" and forever will be( he hopes) history of the band. It's not a matter of "convenience", but one of " Don't mess with Murry"   That's how I see that playing out.
But to say Al wasn't invited on the larger venues, well that's gonna be hit and miss, I guess. Brian wasn't at the two  September 14th, 1963 Sacramento shows; so it stands to reason it was Carl, Mike, Dennis, Dave and Al. The Cow Palace show ( The Surf Party)on the 28th was DEFINITELY the same 5 just mentioned. I presume the following nights' shows in Seattle ( the 29th) were the same 5, still without Brian. In between the14th and the 28th shows and then until Dave leaves the band, I can't say.
   It's a long time ago, and yet, the story of everything that happened is still changing. It sure would be nice to find out the REAL full story, while the remaining principals are still with us. 
 Here's a shot from after the show on the 28th, showing the 5 w/ Dee Dee Sharp:

 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Dorinda Morgan, in Byron Preiss' book recalls "Murry called us up and said 'see if you can do something with him (Brian), Audree & I are going to Mexico City'". Annoyingly, no source notes are provided.

I'm not as keen on my Candix history as I should be, but why would Murry tell Dorinda Morgan that he was going to Mexico?

Well, being my usual fair self, I have to point out here that some of Dorinda's recollections - e.g. that they initially pressed up "Surfin'" "on our (X) label" - have been shown to be in error.  It's possible she's conflated her memories of the time.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Here's a little background on the contact the Wilsons had with the Morgans pre-"Surfin'". Some years ago, I got into contact with Gary Winfrey, and with his recollections, the early history of Alan's association with the band was completely overhauled as he was the first to say that ACJ left for college before The Beach Boys came to pass, as opposed to after, as all the other histories had it. I've cut out the less-relevant parts, but if you want to read the whole thing, it's here - In The Beginning.

"The Islanders came to an inevitable end when Alan & Bob [Barrow] left for college in the fall of 1960 (as did Brian and Keith Lent - Gary had graduated the previous year), but not before Gary & Alan approached someone in the music business to see if the group might take that one step further. "Al and I were over at Brian's house and it was Mrs. Wilson who gave us the idea to contact Hite Morgan. We took an audition tape to Hite's recording studio: the song was "The Wreck Of the Hesperus". It was a poem by Longfellow put to music by us. We thought it sounded terrible on his professional sound equipment. They said they were just getting their studio together and would call if anything comes up." This was, in Gary's opinion, in late August or early September and he & Alan were convinced that they'd just been handed the old 'don't-call-us-we'll-call-you' line... By mid-June [1961], Alan was back in Los Angeles and enrolled at El Camino for a pre-dentistry course: doubtless he knew that Gary was at the college, but was pleasantly surprised when he bumped into Brian again, and not just because he was an old high school buddy. Apparently one of the first things Alan did on his return to California was to resurrect The Islanders with either Gary's brother Don or Keith Lent replacing Bob Barrow… and it seemed that the Morgan's interest was genuine: they did call back. "So they called and said come on down as they had a song for us to record. My brother Don, who I believe was in Carl Wilson's class, was at school during the week, so we asked Keith Lent [who had previously been in one version of Carl & The Passions alongside Brian] to take his place that day. The song was written by Hite's son [Bruce] and was called "Rio Grande"." Gary remembers that it was after this session that Brian was first involved musically: "We were getting nowhere on the record and asked Brian's help. We didn't make much progress and dropped the project. Brian met Hite [again - he had auditioned for Art Laboe at Hite's suggestion four years earlier] and the rest is history." What apparently happened was that, in parallel with the revived Islanders, Alan was helping form a band with Brian - Gary recalls them (Gary, Al, Brian and some unknown) singing together in the Nurses Room at El Camino - his brothers and cousin Mike Love, and when he auditioned for Hite again, this time they, and not The Islanders, accompanied him. Whether or not they played "Rio Grande" or "Sloop John B" - or both - is unclear: what is certain is that when the Morgans asked if they had any original material, Dennis stunned his band mates by announcing that Brian and Mike had written a song about surfing. They hadn't, of course, but this little white lie was soon rectified… and the rest was, indeed, history."

 

[Andrew G. Doe]

More nonsense.  

Murry & Audree reportedly went to Mexico City with Barry Haven & his wife who, although British, were living in the US are about to relocate to CA: Haven knew Murry through ABLE, and related the following tale to one Ian Whitcomb in 1963, who included it in his 1983 book Rock Odyssey: A Chronicle of the Sixties. For more info on Whitcomb, check Wikipedia: suffice to say he once opened for The Beach Boys. Comments in italics are mine.

“They kindly arranged to take us to Mexico on a three-day trip (no mention of Labor Day) . . . and they left several hundred dollars for their three boys -- Carl, Brian and Dennis -- to live on. When we got back, they greeted us with some songs they’d written (almost certainly "Surfin'", "Luau" & "Lavender" - he wasn't to know they'd not written the latter pair) and played on instruments they’d bought with the food money. Guitars, bass, drums, you name it. They gave us a miniconcert and it wasn’t bad. The wife and me almost got up and did some twisting to it. . . . Anyway, Murry was first furious when he saw what his boys had bought with the food money and he wasn’t one to spare the rod and spoil the child. But his attitude changed pretty fast after he heard the songs. Oh, they had the teen beat and all that, but also had some pretty melodies and chords that really made you feel like relaxyvooing. So immediately, he went into a huddle with his boys about getting these songs published and recorded. He was quite a nifty songwriter himself, the sort of moon-over-Waikiki variety. I remember going back to see them a few months later – I had to see Murry about some machinery or other – and I arrived to find him administering a real old pep talk to his lads, just like one of those ruddy football coaches they have here. They’re quite a Germanic race in a way, the Yanks. But it gets results. He got them into the studio and onto a record and now, with him managing them, they’re so rich we never see them.”

This - assuming haven is recollecting accurately, and Whitcomb likewise - of course only further muddies the already murky waters. But we don't care: if it was easy, where would the fun be ?  

[A Million Units In Jan!]

More nonsense.  

Murry & Audree reportedly went to Mexico City with Barry Haven & his wife who, although British, were living in the US are about to relocate to CA: Haven knew Murry through ABLE, and related the following tale to one Ian Whitcomb in 1963, who included it in his 1983 book Rock Odyssey: A Chronicle of the Sixties. For more info on Whitcomb, check Wikipedia: suffice to say he once opened for The Beach Boys. Comments in italics are mine.

“They kindly arranged to take us to Mexico on a three-day trip (no mention of Labor Day) . . . and they left several hundred dollars for their three boys -- Carl, Brian and Dennis -- to live on. When we got back, they greeted us with some songs they’d written (almost certainly "Surfin'", "Luau" & "Lavender" - he wasn't to know they'd not written the latter pair) and played on instruments they’d bought with the food money. Guitars, bass, drums, you name it. They gave us a miniconcert and it wasn’t bad. The wife and me almost got up and did some twisting to it. . . . Anyway, Murry was first furious when he saw what his boys had bought with the food money and he wasn’t one to spare the rod and spoil the child. But his attitude changed pretty fast after he heard the songs. Oh, they had the teen beat and all that, but also had some pretty melodies and chords that really made you feel like relaxyvooing. So immediately, he went into a huddle with his boys about getting these songs published and recorded. He was quite a nifty songwriter himself, the sort of moon-over-Waikiki variety. I remember going back to see them a few months later – I had to see Murry about some machinery or other – and I arrived to find him administering a real old pep talk to his lads, just like one of those ruddy football coaches they have here. They’re quite a Germanic race in a way, the Yanks. But it gets results. He got them into the studio and onto a record and now, with him managing them, they’re so rich we never see them.”

This - assuming haven is recollecting accurately, and Whitcomb likewise - of course only further muddies the already murky waters. But we don't care: if it was easy, where would the fun be ?  

Relaxyvooing? They're quite a Germanic race in a way, the Yanks?

[Carrie Marks]

Andrew:  Most interesting...thanks!  So they went to England AND Mexico.....

The instrument claim may also be slightly over-stated considering Carl already had a guitar and Al's mom put up the money for his bass but otherwise, Mr Havens has told the story pretty darn close to how we've come to believe "Labor Day" happened.  However, what went on with the Islanders aside, I think his reporting on Murry's reaction confirms the unlikelihood of Murry calling Dorinda PRIOR to him leaving for Mexico.

Jo Ann and Elmer combined, made approx. $240 a month in 1961, so I'm still not sure why Murry would leave the equivalent of an average month's salary / two mortgage payments for 'food money' for 3 days, though.

[PongHit]

You could just as reasonably ask, why does it matter who wrote "Good Vibrations" ?

THAT I would understand easily.  The Mexico vs. Europe thing is more complicated & subtle...

[Carrie Marks]

Here's a shot from after the show on the 28th, showing the 5 w/ Dee Dee Sharp:

 

Did you take that photo?  If not, what is the source for the 9/28/63 date?  That date conflicts with my research so I am most interested in sorting that out. 

Also, Jon, Andrew or anyone else...what are Fred Vail's recollections about meeting Brian?  I believed Al was at the 1st show in Sacramento in the spring and Brian was at the 2nd one in September, which was his 1st time meeting Brian.  Is that backwards? 

[PongHit]

Honestly? You have been around this board for awhile, you've scanned page after page of questions that have been posed here, many of which have little or nothing to do with anything of real importance regarding the Beach Boys and their history. You've started threads about how you can turn your iphone into a woody, and where we should place Lets Call The Whole Thing Of on BWRG. But you choose to ask why a thread essential to the fundamental understanding of the very formation and birth of the band we discuss here matters? Whoa man...that's a strange set of priorities.

I'm not suggesting it isn't worthy of discussion.  I'm trying to understand the ramifications.  For example, Jon, I bought your David book (the day it was released, during a trip to LA making a documentary film), & when I read it, I understood how elements of it could change the timeline, etc.  So, similarly, I'm asking: if they went to Europe instead of Mexico, does that somehow indicate, for example, that the band started recording earlier?  Does it, once again, shift the Al vs. David line-up?  Or...  what?

[Cam Mott]

Maybe the two trips happened consecutively, 3 days in Europe followed by 3 days in Mexico? Perhaps all with the same couple, or not.

[Andrew G. Doe]

[brain fart]

[PongHit]

Ah, thank you, Andrew.  This is what I was looking for, a clarification of the timeline — I'm eager to see the bottom-line of what this new bit o' info adds to our total understanding.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Honestly? You have been around this board for awhile, you've scanned page after page of questions that have been posed here, many of which have little or nothing to do with anything of real importance regarding the Beach Boys and their history. You've started threads about how you can turn your iphone into a woody, and where we should place Lets Call The Whole Thing Of on BWRG. But you choose to ask why a thread essential to the fundamental understanding of the very formation and birth of the band we discuss here matters? Whoa man...that's a strange set of priorities.

I'm not suggesting it isn't worthy of discussion.  I'm trying to understand the ramifications.  For example, Jon, I bought your David book (the day it was released, during a trip to LA making a documentary film), & when I read it, I understood how elements of it could change the timeline, etc.  So, similarly, I'm asking: if they went to Europe instead of Mexico, does that somehow indicate, for example, that the band started recording earlier?  Does it, once again, shift the Al vs. David line-up?  Or...  what?

Can't speak for Jon, but personally, I do this kind of thing because I want it to be set down accurately for future fans, and for general rock history. I do it because it interests me, and because something just doesn't feel right. The ramifications are a better understanding of the early/pre-BB dynamic, which of course influences all that ensued.

And yeah, I do it 'cause it's cool to see my name in a book as a source. I have an ego that requires constant massaging. As Brian would say, it's a trip.  

[Andrew G. Doe]

Maybe the two trips happened consecutively, 3 days in Europe followed by 3 days in Mexico? Perhaps all with the same couple, or not.

Unlikely, and even were it so, Jo Ann says the UK trip was just Murry & Audree, which jibes with the Havens being US residents.

[c-man]

I'm sure the cost for renting the bass included a returnable deposit...when Alan and Mike were on the Midnight Special in 1978 (part two of a two-part "special feature" on the BBs...part one being a chat with Carl), Al specifically said that his mom was really worried about something happening and not getting her deposit back when she agreed to rent it for them.  That would make $300 seem more plausible.

[PongHit]

I do this kind of thing because I want it to be set down accurately for future fans, and for general rock history. I do it because it interests me, and because something just doesn't feel right. The ramifications are a better understanding of the early/pre-BB dynamic, which of course influences all that ensued.
And yeah, I do it 'cause it's cool to see my name in a book as a source. I have an ego that requires constant massaging. As Brian would say, it's a trip.  

I hear ya, Andrew.  I'm also a stickler for accuracy.  And I too am a recognized expert in my musical niche, & I enjoy being a source for books, etc., & working with some of the biggest shots in the biz.  So I understand the ego trip as well.  As BBoys fanatic, I reply on people like you, Jon, & others to sift through all the mythology, & feed my need for detailed, true BBoys history, so thanks!  Your little blue book hasn't left my night-table since I bought it.

[Carrie Marks]

Al specifically said that his mom was really worried about something happening and not getting her deposit back when she agreed to rent it for them.  That would make $300 seem more plausible.

I've had conversations with Al about this and I absolutely believe his mother put up the money for the rental gear.  But the Haven's (and Wilson's) say it was Murry's grocery money that went to the gear. So regardless of the amount,  you've still got 2 parents both claiming to have paid for the same instruments. 

Ponghit: the reason this is important (to me anyway) is not because it matters WHERE the Wilson's went, but the fact the story used to tell the early BB history has giant holes and contradictions in it.  The reason's WHY they would not tell the story the way it actually happened is really the underlying motivation for pinning down the exact facts.

Al, like David, was a victim of Murry's creative story-telling.  Bgas says it was 'messing w/ Murry" that got David written out of history, not a matter of 'convenience' but what did Al do to Murry in Feb 1962 that would prompt his name being crossed off the Surfin' AFM sheet w/ future credit given to David and Virginia's investment credited to Murry? There was a history, right from the start, to bend the story to fit whatever angle Murry was going for at the time and the more we delve into the "Labor Day" story, the more we see it was just that, a STORY.

[Jon Stebbins]

My reasons for seeing this Mexico vs Europe thing as very important are in line with Andrew and Carrie. And as stated when you find a leak in the story, something that doesn't hold water, this is often a clue to finding more truth. Think about the fact that we were told for years that Al left the Beach Boys to go to dentistry school on the east coast (truth is he was still in L.A., and lost faith in the Beach Boys because he wanted to be in a folk group, not a rock group). We were told for years that David was kicked out because Brian wanted Al back in (truth is he quit to start his own group). We were told for years Dave was a quick fill in for Al while he toyed with the idea of college (truth is David was involved in the Beach Boys genesis prior to Al being involved, and it was David and not Al who was a 1/5 official member of the band, and Al who was the fill-in for Brian and was paid as a sideman). We were told for years Al and David's tenure's did not overlap, until that Hawaii footage surfaced and people went huh?(truth is there were essentially SIX Beach Boys for much of 1963 including on the creation of classic songs like In My Room and Catch A Wave which have BOTH David and Al on them). For years we were told the Beach Boys didn't play the instruments on their records after the first couple LPs(truth is they played on a majority of the most known tracks in their canon, including Dennis being the drummer on classics like I Get Around, Don't Worry Baby, When I Grow Up, Dance Dance Dance). We were told for years that Brian stopped touring with the Beach Boys in late 1964 (truth is Brian began to sit out tours in early to mid 1963) I could go on. The point is when something doesn't feel right you start poking around, and often you find some surprises that really do mean something. I was floored to be part of the research thrust that discovered a 20% share of the Beach Boys franchise totaling millions of dollars was swindled from a 15 year old in 1963 and withheld from his replacement for a decade. Where did that money go? How does that happen? Why was this mystery not even touched upon in any Beach Boys book until 2007? I think we're just getting at the heart of the truth about the Beach Boys in many ways, and 90% of people who know a little something about the Beach Boys still don't know any of the things I've listed above because the story has been told one way for so long that it has entrenched into the general consciousness. Our job is to reverse that because it is important to the true understanding of America's greatest pop/rock band.