The legendary Labor Day weekend, 1961

[Rob Dean]

Actually Guys , This myth was broken as far back as 1977 when Dennis (during a radio interview for P.O.B.)  mentioned that his parents had gone to Europe .

[Andrew G. Doe]

Actually Guys , This myth was broken as far back as 1977 when Dennis (during a radio interview for P.O.B.)  mentioned that his parents had gone to Europe .

Waiter ! One large sloppy wet kiss for Mr. Dean - put it on my tab. 

[Rob Dean]

Actually Guys , This myth was broken as far back as 1977 when Dennis (during a radio interview for P.O.B.)  mentioned that his parents had gone to Europe .

Waiter ! One large sloppy wet kiss for Mr. Dean - put it on my tab. 

Andrew , you are so kind !!! But can i please have it off of the waitress 

[Andrew G. Doe]

OK... been doing some research.

In Leaf's book Audree is quoted about it at some length and yes, she says they took some English friends to Mexico City "for a three day trip" (no mention of Labor Day), and Dorinda Morgan, in Byron Preiss' book recalls "Murry called us up and said 'see if you can do something with him (Brian), Audree & I are going to Mexico City'". Annoyingly, no source notes are provided.

So, looks like they did go to Mexico City, with or without their 'English friends' (who, it occurs to me, pretty much have to be in some way involved with Murry's business and/or Berry & Binns, unless someone can come up with a brighter idea  ) but crucially, no-one mentions Labor Day.

Given that Rob has provided at least partial confirmation that Murry & Audree went to Europe during the period in question, allied with Jo Ann's recollection (which David also remembers), I'd say the whole Labor Day-Mexico-$300 food money-rent a bass for $300 more-edifice is looking some shaky.

'Course, it would be just so helpful if Binns & Berry got back to me and said something like "Murry Wilson ? Sure, he was at the factory early September 1961 - had his wife with him as well"... but that ain't gonna happen (is it ?).

So. Back to the legwork. Man, I loooooooooove this kind of thing.

[PongHit]

I think it's cool you guys are trying to figure this out, but does it really matter where they went?

[Andrew G. Doe]

I think it's cool you guys are trying to figure this out, but does it really matter where they went?

Yup.

Next question.

[c-man]

Actually Guys , This myth was broken as far back as 1977 when Dennis (during a radio interview for P.O.B.)  mentioned that his parents had gone to Europe .

Damn, Rob, you beat me to it! (I didn't get up early enough this morning, having hit a local bar & grill last night...it was Friday, after all)...but at least I don't have to worry about the large sloppy wet kiss from AGD...you can have it, Rob!

Seriously, when I first heard that remark from Dennis in the 1977 interview, my first reaction was that Dennis was appallingly challenged geography-wise...then I decided that he was just having a memory spasm.  But, given other tidbits in this thread, I now wonder...

[Jon Stebbins]

Here's something else to consider...John Maus (who became John Walker of the Walker Brothers) was David and Carl's first guitar teacher. His affiliation with the two future Beach Boys started in 1959. Both he and David told me in separate conversations that "the group" meaning some form of what would become the Beach Boys rehearsed in the Maus family garage, and that John's dad thought they were awful and kicked them out. Maus takes this a step further in the Walker Bros. biography No Regrets by saying the future Beach Boys, including David were rehearsing the song "Surfin'" at his home, and said , "my father didn't like the song too much and didn't have a lot of hopes for the Beach Boys but the record came out on Candix and was a big hit." Verifying this, Gary Leeds (Gary Walker) recalls being at the Maus home when the "Beach Boys" were rehearsing and that they "drove John's parents crazy". Obviously The Lost Beach Boy book more than confirmed that David and Carl were making music together, sometimes with Brian, for years before the "Labor Day" event. Dave has spotty memories of Mike being there too but the chronology regarding Mike was fuzzy when we did the book. Maus insisted to me it was "the whole band" including David, Carl, Brian, Dennis and Mike playing at his home prior to the release of Surfin. I think if you add this to the questions regarding "Labor Day" you see that the genesis of the group is not what so many books and articles have told us it was, in fact, as Carrie stated the Labor Day story really feels ready made for the press in '64 post Al becoming permanent Beach Boy #5. I'm not saying there was not a weekend when the Wilsons were gone, and that the boys including Al rented instruments and worked on Surfin, I'm just saying I think the band probably grew out of many get togethers and rehearsals and that that convenient Labor Day story as being the BIG BANG is nothing more than Murry spin which entrenched itself in BB's lore starting way after the fact.

[PongHit]

Next question.

Why does it matter?

[c-man]

Next question.

Why does it matter?

It just does, that's all.   

[Jason]

The Beach Boys world is full of little idiosyncrasies. THREADS, blueboard pre-concert meetup/singalong/dinner/dancing/copulation sessions, "I won't pay for CDRs of Al's new LP", "Brian Wilson is a genius", and so on.

We've come to accept them as all part of that glorious whole we call the Beach Boys' fanbase.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Next question.

Why does it matter?

It just does, that's all.   

It matters because I find this kind of thing fascinating, the more so because there's a chance of throwing a little light on something that smells a little odd to me. You could just as reasonably ask, why does it matter who wrote "Good Vibrations" ?

[Andrew G. Doe]

The Beach Boys world is full of little idiosyncrasies. THREADS, blueboard pre-concert meetup/singalong/dinner/dancing/copulation sessions, "I won't pay for CDRs of Al's new LP", "Brian Wilson is a genius", and so on.

We've come to accept them as all part of that glorious whole we call the Beach Boys' fanbase.

Personally speaking, I have never copulated with anyone, irrespective of gender or orientation, at any pre-or post BW-meetings.

But I live in hope...

[c-man]

FYI, the Dennis interview mentioned is with KUGN-FM, in Eugene, Oregon, Fall of '77.  I quote it extensively in my POB/Bambu essay (www.beachboysarchives.com).

[Andrew G. Doe]

FYI, the Dennis interview mentioned is with KUGN-FM, in Eugene, Oregon, Fall of '77.  I quote it extensively in my POB/Bambu essay (www.beachboysarchives.com).

Perchance do you have a transcript of the salient part to hand ? 

[Jon Stebbins]

Why does it matter?

Honestly? You have been around this board for awhile, you've scanned page after page of questions that have been posed here, many of which have little or nothing to do with anything of real importance regarding the Beach Boys and their history. You've started threads about how you can turn your iphone into a woody, and where we should place Lets Call The Whole Thing Of on BWRG. But you choose to ask why a thread essential to the fundamental understanding of the very formation and birth of the band we discuss here matters? Whoa man...that's a strange set of priorities.

[c-man]

FYI, the Dennis interview mentioned is with KUGN-FM, in Eugene, Oregon, Fall of '77.  I quote it extensively in my POB/Bambu essay (www.beachboysarchives.com).

Perchance do you have a transcript of the salient part to hand ? 

Ah, but of course!  Just happened to have a CDR that I'd burned of that very interview sitting about a foot away from my computer, right next to my printer, where it's been for probably the past two years now...realizing that today is Dennis' birthday makes it all the more fitting!

INTERVIEWER: When did the Beach Boys actually get together, when did the three of you decide that you wanted to do something, wanted to actually form a band and get away from just singing in the back of your parents' car?

DENNIS: Ohh um, just different things...I was not involved with a couple of the high school projects, y'know...and a matter of fact, I watched them, y'know, and giggled at the audience, y'know...uh, as far as the group goes, I just remember my parents...um...leaving for Europe and left us some food money, an' we took the food money an' went down and bought instruments, and put 'em downstairs in the, where we had a garage that my dad turned into a, like a den; it was a total failure den, until we got the instruments in there, and then it was perfect; a little place to play, and so that's what we did.

[Beekeeper]

... I'm just saying I think the band probably grew out of many get togethers and rehearsals and that that convenient Labor Day story as being the BIG BANG is nothing more than Murry spin which entrenched itself in BB's lore starting way after the fact.

I believe Mr Stebbins has hit the nail on the proverbial head here.

Murry, always the promoter, probably wanted a story that could be easily repeated to DJ's, record company execs, that was short, interesting and showed the BB's as having the ability to come up with a song and have an immediate hit on their hands.

Its more interesting than having to explain David Marks and Al Jardine and how they were in the band and then left the band etc... 

Beekeper

[Andrew G. Doe]

FYI, the Dennis interview mentioned is with KUGN-FM, in Eugene, Oregon, Fall of '77.  I quote it extensively in my POB/Bambu essay (www.beachboysarchives.com).

Perchance do you have a transcript of the salient part to hand ? 

Ah, but of course!  Just happened to have a CDR that I'd burned of that very interview sitting about a foot away from my computer, right next to my printer, where it's been for probably the past two years now...realizing that today is Dennis' birthday makes it all the more fitting!

INTERVIEWER: When did the Beach Boys actually get together, when did the three of you decide that you wanted to do something, wanted to actually form a band and get away from just singing in the back of your parents' car?

DENNIS: Ohh um, just different things...I was not involved with a couple of the high school projects, y'know...and a matter of fact, I watched them, y'know, and giggled at the audience, y'know...uh, as far as the group goes, I just remember my parents...um...leaving for Europe and left us some food money, an' we took the food money an' went down and bought instruments, and put 'em downstairs in the, where we had a garage that my dad turned into a, like a den; it was a total failure den, until we got the instruments in there, and then it was perfect; a little place to play, and so that's what we did.

Waiter ! Another big wet sloppy kiss for my American friend - on my tab again. 

[c-man]

FYI, the Dennis interview mentioned is with KUGN-FM, in Eugene, Oregon, Fall of '77.  I quote it extensively in my POB/Bambu essay (www.beachboysarchives.com).

Perchance do you have a transcript of the salient part to hand ? 

Ah, but of course!  Just happened to have a CDR that I'd burned of that very interview sitting about a foot away from my computer, right next to my printer, where it's been for probably the past two years now...realizing that today is Dennis' birthday makes it all the more fitting!

INTERVIEWER: When did the Beach Boys actually get together, when did the three of you decide that you wanted to do something, wanted to actually form a band and get away from just singing in the back of your parents' car?

DENNIS: Ohh um, just different things...I was not involved with a couple of the high school projects, y'know...and a matter of fact, I watched them, y'know, and giggled at the audience, y'know...uh, as far as the group goes, I just remember my parents...um...leaving for Europe and left us some food money, an' we took the food money an' went down and bought instruments, and put 'em downstairs in the, where we had a garage that my dad turned into a, like a den; it was a total failure den, until we got the instruments in there, and then it was perfect; a little place to play, and so that's what we did.

Waiter ! Another big wet sloppy kiss for my American friend - on my tab again. 

Gee...thanks!

[Myk Luhv]

Why does it matter?

Honestly? You have been around this board for awhile, you've scanned page after page of questions that have been posed here, many of which have little or nothing to do with anything of real importance regarding the Beach Boys and their history. You've started threads about how you can turn your iphone into a woody, and where we should place Lets Call The Whole Thing Of on BWRG. But you choose to ask why a thread essential to the fundamental understanding of the very formation and birth of the band we discuss here matters? Whoa man...that's a strange set of priorities.

[adamghost]

Couple thoughts that may not matter that much, but just thinking about it from the ground floor perspective...

When I was in my teen years I grew up in a small town and there were about five people in our high school who could play rock music.  We had nearly nothing to do with each others' tastes but the pool was so limited and the town so small that we were always getting together and recombining with one another in various permutations.  It wasn't until I was 18 and this had been going on for three years or so that it coalesced into an official "band" and even then it was several months before we started playing out.  But the same 3 or 4 people were always getting together in the years before that in twos and threes and occasionally with outsiders to jam.

Hawthorne's a bigger place than my home town but I would guess that Brian's neighborhood functioned much the same way, with Brian's presence and Murry's music room functioning as a hub of activity.  It makes sense to me that David and Carl were off doing their social/music thing (as Jon reports in his book), Brian and Mike theirs, Dennis off on his own, but interest, logistics and proximity meant that on occasion they'd join forces in various combinations.  Al's entry on the scene seems to have been a catalyst to take this all to the next level, which also makes sense since he would be the outsider that kind of shakes things up and opens eyes to new possibilities.  But that's just the way teenage bands tend to work, at least in my experience.  They just evolve based on proximity and availability.

The second thing that occurs to me is that Murry was probably paying about as much close attention to this as most parents would -- that is, not very much.  He certainly knew and encouraged his sons' interest in music and Brian's obsession had to be obvious, but what parent keeps close track of the comings and goings of a bunch of kids playing in an informal garage band?  Until they start gigging or smoking dope, it's just another thing that they do that's not that important in the grand adult scheme of things.  The parent's interest in the specifics of the band's activity is usually limited to "turn that down!"  And if they're off practicing at John Maus' house, that tells us Murry DID tell them to turn it down (since the Wilsons had a music room) and that if they were rehearsing elsewhere, that takes it out of the realm of his notice.

The "Labor Day" incident was almost certainly pivotal for Murry, though, in that it marks the point that HE started taking the whole thing seriously, and really, from his perspective, that's all that would matter.  So when the story of the band was told, it makes sense that that event would be ground zero in Murry's telling of the tale.

[bgas]

FYI, the Dennis interview mentioned is with KUGN-FM, in Eugene, Oregon, Fall of '77.  I quote it extensively in my POB/Bambu essay (www.beachboysarchives.com).

Perchance do you have a transcript of the salient part to hand ? 

Ah, but of course!  Just happened to have a CDR that I'd burned of that very interview sitting about a foot away from my computer, right next to my printer, where it's been for probably the past two years now...realizing that today is Dennis' birthday makes it all the more fitting!

INTERVIEWER: When did the Beach Boys actually get together, when did the three of you decide that you wanted to do something, wanted to actually form a band and get away from just singing in the back of your parents' car?

DENNIS: Ohh um, just different things...I was not involved with a couple of the high school projects, y'know...and a matter of fact, I watched them, y'know, and giggled at the audience, y'know...uh, as far as the group goes, I just remember my parents...um...leaving for Europe and left us some food money, an' we took the food money an' went down and bought instruments, and put 'em downstairs in the, where we had a garage that my dad turned into a, like a den; it was a total failure den, until we got the instruments in there, and then it was perfect; a little place to play, and so that's what we did.

Except a couple of things: 
The only pertinent info changed here is substituting "Europe" for "Mexico City". The story about the food money hasn't changed, except,  if you notice, Dennis says BOUGHT, not rented, instruments ( plural) . So: a rented bass, OR,  they bought(maybe)  bass, drums, ?
 If you take the John Maus story as fact, that changes the whole perception of what really transpired, and basically, I Think, throws out the whole Europe/Mexico story. The BBs, using whatever/no name, were rehearsing in this garage and subsequently, recorded Surfin with the Morgans.  If they're rehearsing in the garage, then they already have instruments. 
 Or did they: use the Food money, rent a bass, rehearse and record with the Morgans and THEN further rehearse in the Maus garage after they did the recording, but prior to the acual Candix release and their first known appearances? 
And if they WERE doing all this rehearsing, why were they still so darn bad at playing their instruments,  for months to come?
 So many options to consider... 
It's kinda like trying to figure out which  shopping center parking lots they played in.  Almost all of the people that could shed some light on the situation, are gone 

[adamghost]

"And if they WERE doing all this rehearsing, why were they still so darn bad at playing their instruments,  for months to come?"

Boy, that is no mystery.  You can rehearse a looong time and still suck (in some cases, 20 years).

Six months in the life of a teenage garage band is not that long in terms of acquiring basic competence.

[Mikie]

When I heard that Eugene Dennis interview from 1977, I also thought he'd misplaced the facts and didn't think much of it. This was a little before or after the KOME San Jose interview when he said something odd and I thought his memory was a little goofy. It's not really conclusive, but now I wonder if he was telling it like it was. Just like when he was recounting in the It's OK TV special "My Dad worked at "Air Research" and Friday nights sitting in the back of the car driving home singing harmony - and "Come Down, Come down from your Ivory Tower". His memory was pretty good there.

Anyway, anybody wanna discuss Candix matrix numbers for the "Surfin'" single?