Is it time to reappraise 15 Big Ones?

[c-man]

I don't think Mo Ostin sabatoged anything. Can understand that he didn't like "Love You", but considering the amount of promo material (large posters) and large adds in Billboard and Rolling Stone, I'm not sure "Love You" was promoted much less than "15 Big Ones".

Except maybe it just wasn't pushed to radio as hard...'course, it's not the most radio-friendly album, certainly not by 1977 AM and FM standards! 

Plus, just before it was released the news broke that the band had signed with Caribou.

I think THAT would be the main reason...!  Mo loved the band, and Brian in particular, but why invest much promo money in a lame duck?

[Mikie]

That also explains why MIU wasn't promoted as heavily as the preceding Warners albums.

[Custom Machine]

I don't think Mo Ostin sabatoged anything. Can understand that he didn't like "Love You", but considering the amount of promo material (large posters) and large adds in Billboard and Rolling Stone, I'm not sure "Love You" was promoted much less than "15 Big Ones".

Except maybe it just wasn't pushed to radio as hard...'course, it's not the most radio-friendly album, certainly not by 1977 AM and FM standards! 

Not radio friendly, and for the great majority of people, not listener friendly.

From my recollection, I don't think Warner Bros could be blamed for not pressing enough copies.  I can't recall any BBs album that hit the cut out bins as fast and in such large quantities as Love You.

[Mikie]

Agreed.  Complete with punch-out holes or cuts in the corners of the covers. But maybe it didn't deserve it.  Lesee, off of "15 Big Ones" we had the singles "Rock & Roll Music" "It's OK", and "Everyone's In Love With You" (a throw-away if it weren't for the flip side). The first two garnered pretty good airplay in 1976. From "Love You", we had the single "Honkin' Down The Highway". Dead in the water when it came to radio airplay. C'moooonnnn! I think "Let Us Go On This Way" might have been a better choice. Or "The Night Was So Young".

[adamghost]

I can't think of a single song on LOVE YOU that would have sounded like it belonged on the radio in 1977.  "Honkin'" was as good a choice as any...maybe with better promotion it might have charted, but hard to imagine it having been a huge hit.  LOVE YOU was always destined to be what it became:  an arty cult semi-classic.  MIU, for all its faults, was much closer to what sounded good on (A/C) radio in '78, as was proved a few years later with "Come Go With Me."

[c-man]

Agreed.  Complete with punch-out holes or cuts in the corners of the covers. But maybe it didn't deserve it.  Lesee, off of "15 Big Ones" we had the singles "Rock & Roll Music" "It's OK", and "Everyone's In Love With You" (a throw-away if it weren't for the flip side). The first two garnered pretty good airplay in 1976. From "Love You", we had the single "Honkin' Down The Highway". Dead in the water when it came to radio airplay. C'moooonnnn! I think "Let Us Go On This Way" might have been a better choice. Or "The Night Was So Young".

How about "I'll Bet He's Nice" as a single?  That might've worked. 

[Myk Luhv]

I think "Airplane" is an excellent song and would have made a fantastic single. I mean, if we're going for something that will actually get played on the radio, that song is not as weird as the rest of the album, I think.

[donald]

The high point of 15 BO IMO, is the background harmony on the middle section of  JOIML.

To these ears, it has the best overall sound on the album. 

There are a couple of good originals on the lp that have sounded better on subsequent boots or other  releases.

This album was poorly planned and executed.  Listening to it and knowing it's history, it seems a product of a bad committee decision. 

I think a lot of really bad music, from a number of acts,  came from that period.  Even the good stuff wasn't that great.

Too much coke and too much change for the worse in the direction of pop music at the time.

[adamghost]

I think "Airplane" is an excellent song and would have made a fantastic single. I mean, if we're going for something that will actually get played on the radio, that song is not as weird as the rest of the album, I think.

Not as weird as the rest of the album is a long drive to getting played on the radio.  I mean, the farting synths and halting drums, in '77, just sounded bizarre to someone weaned on pop radio.  Remember, the Human League and techno rock hadn't happened yet, and punk hadn't broken through commercially (the Ramones did manage to make the charts but even then, you're talking about a basic rock sound people were at least passingly familiar with).  '77 was the height of busy, precise production....disco, Saturday Night Fever, stuff like that.  The only song on LOVE YOU that had a "pro" sounding commercial production was "Good Time" and that was way too retro-sounding for that period.

I think "Honkin'" was about the best shot they had for a single.  As I said before, I think if they'd promoted it harder it might have done as well as "Peggy Sue," but I don't think it would have done any better.  I'd buy "The Night Was So Young" as a second single...but even then, you're dealing with some synth textures that in the context of the time would have sounded weird.

Here's what might have worked for them:  if they'd done a single remix or two, perhaps replaced some of the bass and drums with real instruments, spruced up the vocals a bit.  This probably wasn't feasible because (a) it would have hurt Brian's feelings (Carl already had to mix the whole thing) and (b) if Ostin wasn't going to promote it anyway, why bother?

LOVE YOU has always been a puzzler second only to SMILEY SMILE -- once again, at a pivotal period in the band's history, they released a record that was guaranteed to polarize reactions and puzzle a large portion of their audience.  One story that's circulating is that the album was always intended to be demos, but the band's promotion schedule forced it to be released as was (which was somewhat the case with 15 BIG ONES too, I believe).  Now, I've also heard a number of other things that would make hash of that theory.  But it does make sense to me, and is also consistent of what we know of the band's management's MO at the time.  David Leaf contemporaneously (1978) wrote of those two albums as sounding "unfinished" which is a pretty good assessment of how those albums came across to a listener of the time, even a Brianista as hardcore as Leaf.

I think it was an extremely brave album to make and release.  I think it enhanced the band's long-term reputation and reconnected them with critics to some extent, but its release, couple with the increasingly shoddy live shows at the time, probably cost the band some hard-won commercial ground after 15BO, which for all its faults managed to squeeze out two hit singles.

[donald]

Love You just gets better with time.  What was once heard as OTL weirdness has become a delightful offering of creative genius.  The melodies and tunes  alone should have made headlines back in the day when compared with a most of the gawdawful sludge found on record shelves.

[c-man]

Love You just gets better with time.  What was once heard as OTL weirdness has become a delightful offering of creative genius.  The melodies and tunes  alone should have made headlines back in the day when compared with a most of the gawdawful sludge found on record shelves.

Well, Patti Smith wrote a glowing review of it, and someone else (in Rolling Stone?) said it might be their best album ever...so it did make headlines! 

[Mikie]

I vehemently disagree with the guy who said that "Honkin' Down The Highway" was their best shot as a single. Even the earlier version that Hinsche sang wasn't any better. Even the remake by Al last year (WHY?) wasn't any better than the original. He sang it 50 feet in front of me live last month and that didn't do anything for me. The song was very sophmoric and embarrassing, and I couldn't see myself justifying it to friends and relatives if I played it for them. Radio airplay? I never heard it on the radio. Ever. Bought the single when it came out just to complete the collection - I've never played it. I skip over it when I play the album (very seldom). The single didn't chart. Plus, it was backed with Solar System. Gaaaaawwwwwd! Are you shiitin' me? Only way you're gonna get that on the radio, especially in 1977, is to front some big time payola under the table to the DJ. If I were a DJ, I wouldn't play it, even though I'm one of the hugest Beach Boys fans on the West Coast!

You want to know what I really think about "Honkin' Down The Gosh Darn Highway"?

[c-man]

Well, I actually DID hear "Honkin' Down The Highway" on the radio once...in 2004...immediately before an hour-long special on "BWPS"...

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

While on the subject of what song from Love You would've been the best single to release: one thing that's always puzzled me about the Beach Boys and singles is why on earth it (pretty much) always had to just be two songs snagged from the current album (or whatever new song and an older song as the b-side) .... You'd think a band with such a wealth of unreleased material would maybe see how slapping on an interesting unreleased B-side would make their hardcore fans lap up their 45s as well as the fun in the sun summer 45 at the beach playing "regular" folks who couldn't be bothered shilling for their whole new album.

[Myk Luhv]

You mean you're not a fan of the three different B-side instances of "Susie Cincinnati"?!

That is a good point though, they should have done that kind of thing more. Off the top of my head I can think of only three single-only releases of tracks that did not appear on a proper studio album during the respective era: "You're Welcome" (A-side: "Heroes & Villains"), 1967; "Child of Winter" [was there a B-side to this one?], 1974; and "Celebrate the News" (A-side: "Breakaway"), 1969.

Oh, well, I guess there's a whole bunch of singles-only stuff from 1980 onwards but who cares about that crap!

[Andrew G. Doe]

You mean you're not a fan of the three different B-side instances of "Susie Cincinnati"?!

That is a good point though, they should have done that kind of thing more. Off the top of my head I can think of only three single-only releases of tracks that did not appear on a proper studio album during the respective era: "You're Welcome" (A-side: "Heroes & Villains"), 1967; "Child of Winter" [was there a B-side to this one?], 1974; and "Celebrate the News" (A-side: "Breakaway"), 1969.

Oh, well, I guess there's a whole bunch of singles-only stuff from 1980 onwards but who cares about that crap!

Also... (* B side)

"Luau"* - 1961
"The Lord's Prayer"* - 1963
"The Little Girl I Once Knew" - 1965
"Break Away" - 1969
"Its' A Beautiful Day" - 1979
"California Dreamin' (version 2)" - 1986
"Rock & Roll To The Rescue" - 1986
"Happy Endings" -1987
"Problem Child" - 1990

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I coulda sworn Breakaway was an A side..... Either way, those aren't a lot of B sides considering all the material at the BBS disposal and the double albums worth of B
sides some other bands have ammased. Though, perhaps the rare B side thing was more of a 80s n 90s thing.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I coulda sworn Breakaway was an A side..... Either way, those aren't a lot of B sides considering all the material at the BBS disposal and the double albums worth of B
sides some other bands have ammased. Though, perhaps the rare B side thing was more of a 80s n 90s thing.

It was... the phrase I was responding to was "Off the top of my head I can think of only three single-only releases of tracks that did not appear on a proper studio album during the respective era"

[punkinhead]

You mean you're not a fan of the three different B-side instances of "Susie Cincinnati"?!

That is a good point though, they should have done that kind of thing more. Off the top of my head I can think of only three single-only releases of tracks that did not appear on a proper studio album during the respective era: "You're Welcome" (A-side: "Heroes & Villains"), 1967; "Child of Winter" [was there a B-side to this one?], 1974; and "Celebrate the News" (A-side: "Breakaway"), 1969.

Oh, well, I guess there's a whole bunch of singles-only stuff from 1980 onwards but who cares about that crap!

Off the top of my head, I wanna say the b-side to Child of Winter was either Good Vibrations or Susie Cincinnati...how appropriate for a Christmas single, yeah?

[Mikie]

Susie Cincinnati was the B.

[smile-holland]

Susie Cincinnati was the B.

... in the U.S.
In several European countries it was Good Vibrations.

[The Heartical Don]

Would 15 BO have fared better with a better sleeve? I don't like the Olympic Games concept. 5 rings for Montreal? What's that got to do with the album itself?

[drbeachboy]

15 songs, 15th anniversary, along with it being an Olympic year. I have no problem with that at all. It was also the United States Bicentennial year too. My problem with the cover is the awful pictures used on the front cover. Dennis' pic is the only decent one of the five. Brian's was the worst with his greasy hair. Maybe, the front shot should have them as U.S. patriots such as Franklin, Jefferson, Washington, with Brian & Mike as the Adams cousins; John and Samuel.

[punkinhead]

15 songs, 15th anniversary, along with it being an Olympic year. I have no problem with that at all. It was also the United States Bicentennial year too. My problem with the cover is the awful pictures used on the front cover. Dennis' pic is the only decent one of the five. Brian's was the worst with his greasy hair. Maybe, the front shot should have them as U.S. patriots such as Franklin, Jefferson, Washington, with Brian & Mike as the Adams cousins; John and Samuel.

great idea!
Obviously, not a lot of thought was put into the cover.
But at least it included some liner notes about who played on what track...that's a treat in itself

[punkinhead]

Susie Cincinnati was the B.

... in the U.S.
In several European countries it was Good Vibrations.

AH HAH!
So I'm right on both accounts!