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Author Topic: Whose idea was it to discofy "Here Comes the Night" in 1979?  (Read 19588 times)
Rentatris
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« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2015, 01:36:14 AM »

This is kind of off topic, but I wonder what the last "disco" song was?

Disco never died!!!

 Uptown Funk is surely disco, and that was a smash all over the world this summer....
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« Reply #51 on: November 01, 2015, 01:41:32 AM »

This is kind of off topic, but I wonder what the last "disco" song was?

Disco never died!!!

 Uptown Funk is surely disco, and that was a smash all over the world this summer....

Aside from over-saturation and that awful Disco Demolition Night, I think a big part of the blowback was anti-gay sentiments and the fact that disco was often associated with that. I mean, if im not mistaken, thats where it came from, gay nightclubs. I wonder if, with attitudes slowly but surely improving, maybe the Disco label may some day be cool again?
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Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2015, 02:15:34 AM »

See why I put "disco" in quotation marks?  Grin I know it never truly died, but nobody really uses the label "disco" anymore with dance tracks. Now that I think about it, I'm not all that sure that Disco had a specific "formula". Lady Gaga would probably fit well in the 1970's Disco craze.
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« Reply #53 on: November 01, 2015, 02:39:38 AM »

See why I put "disco" in quotation marks?  Grin I know it never truly died, but nobody really uses the label "disco" anymore with dance tracks. Now that I think about it, I'm not all that sure that Disco had a specific "formula". Lady Gaga would probably fit well in the 1970's Disco craze.

"The disco sound has soaring vocals over a steady "four-on-the-floor" beat, an eighth note (quaver) or 16th note (semi-quaver) hi-hat pattern with an open hi-hat on the off-beat, and a prominent, syncopated electric bass line. In most disco tracks, strings, horns, electric pianos, and electric guitars create a lush background sound. Orchestral instruments such as the flute are often used for solo melodies, and lead guitar is less frequently used in disco than in rock. Many disco songs use electronic synthesizers."

__________________________________________________________

"The music tended to layer soaring, often-reverberated vocals, which are often doubled by horns, over a background "pad" of electric pianos and "chicken-scratch" rhythm guitars. Other backing keyboard instruments include the piano, organ (during early years), string synth, and electroacoustic keyboards such as the Fender Rhodes piano, Wurlitzer electric piano, and Hohner Clavinet. Synthesizers are also fairly common in disco, especially in the late 1970s.

The rhythm is laid down by prominent, syncopated basslines (with heavy use of octaves) played on the bass guitar and by drummers using a drum kit, African/Latin percussion, and electronic drums such as Simmons and Roland drum modules. The sound is enriched with solo lines and harmony parts played by a variety of orchestral instruments, such as harp, violin, viola, cello, trumpet, saxophone, trombone, clarinet, flugelhorn, French horn, tuba, English horn, oboe, flute (sometimes especially the alto flute and occasionally bass flute), piccolo, timpani and synth strings or a full-blown string orchestra.

Most disco songs have a steady four-on-the-floor beat, a quaver or semi-quaver hi-hat pattern with an open hi-hat on the off-beat, and a heavy, syncopated bass line. Other Latin rhythms such as the rhumba, the samba and the cha-cha-cha are also found in disco recordings, and Latin polyrhythms, such as a rhumba beat layered over a merengue, are commonplace. The quaver pattern is often supported by other instruments such as the rhythm guitar and may be implied rather than explicitly present.

It often involves syncopation, rarely occurring on the beat unless a synthesizer is used to replace the bass guitar. In general, the difference between a disco, or any dance song, and a rock or popular song is that in dance music the bass hits four to the floor, at least once a beat (which in 4/4 time is 4 beats per measure), whereas in rock the bass hits on one and three and lets the snare take the lead on two and four. Disco is further characterized by a 16th note division of the quarter notes established by the bass as shown in the second drum pattern below, after a typical rock drum pattern.

The orchestral sound usually known as "disco sound" relies heavily on strings and horns playing linear phrases, in unison with the soaring, often reverberated vocals or playing instrumental fills, while electric pianos and chicken-scratch guitars create the background "pad" sound defining the harmony progression. Typically, a rich "wall of sound" results. There are, however, more minimalistic flavors of disco with reduced, transparent instrumentation, pioneered by Chic (band).

In 1977, Giorgio Moroder again became responsible for a development in disco. Alongside Donna Summer and Pete Bellotte he wrote the song "I Feel Love" for Summer to perform. It became the first well-known disco hit to have a completely synthesised backing track. The song is still considered to have been well ahead of its time. Other disco producers, most famously Tom Moulton, grabbed ideas and techniques from dub music (which came with the increased Jamaican migration to New York City in the seventies) to provide alternatives to the four on the floor style that dominated. Larry Levan utilized style keys from dub and jazz and more as one of the most successful remixers of all time to create early versions of house music that sparked the genre.[45]
Production

The "disco sound" was much more costly to produce than many of the other popular music genres from the 1970s. Unlike the simpler, four-piece band sound of the funk, soul of the late 1960s, or the small jazz organ trios, disco music often included a large pop band, with several chordal instruments (guitar, keyboards, synthesizer), several drum or percussion instruments (drumkit, Latin percussion, electronic drums), a horn section, a string orchestra, and a variety of "classical" solo instruments (for example, flute, piccolo, and so on).

Disco songs were arranged and composed by experienced arrangers and orchestrators, and producers added their creative touches to the overall sound. Recording complex arrangements with such a large number of instruments and sections required a team that included a conductor, copyists, record producers, and mixing engineers. Mixing engineers had an important role in the disco production process, because disco songs used as many as 64 tracks of vocals and instruments. Mixing engineers compiled these tracks into a fluid composition of verses, bridges, and refrains, complete with orchestral builds and breaks. Mixing engineers helped to develop the "disco sound" by creating a distinctive-sounding disco mix.

Early records were the "standard" 3 minute version until Tom Moulton came up with a way to make songs longer, wanting to take a crowd to another level that was impossible with 45-RPM vinyl discs of the time (which could usually hold no more than 5 minutes of good-quality music). With the help of José Rodriguez, his remasterer, he pressed a single on a 10" disc instead of 7". They cut the next single on a 12" disc, the same format as a standard album. This method fast became the standard format for all DJs of the genre.[46]

Because record sales were often dependent on floor play in clubs, DJs were also important to the development and popularization of disco music. Notable DJs include Rex Potts (Loft Lounge, Sarasota, Florida), Karen Cook, Jim Burgess, Walter Gibbons, John "Jellybean" Benitez, Richie Kaczar of Studio 54, Rick Gianatos, Francis Grasso of Sanctuary, Larry Levan, Ian Levine, Neil "Raz" Rasmussen & Mike Pace of L'amour Disco in Brooklyn, Preston Powell of Magique, Jennie Costa of Lemontrees, Tee Scott, Tony Smith of Xenon, John Luongo, Robert Ouimet of The Limelight, and David Mancuso."

^Wikipedia
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Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #54 on: November 02, 2015, 05:42:00 AM »

It was Bruce according to Carl.  Here he is introducing every song on LA on a radio station:

https://soundcloud.com/user900749788/beach-boys-playback
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« Reply #55 on: November 02, 2015, 06:41:57 PM »

As a producer, Curt Boettcher had few peers. He did a first rate job given what he was asked to do. Perhaps it was a mistake to put the near eleven minute  Here Comes the  Night  on  L.A. Light. That it was done at the end of the disco craze was Bruce's idea. I have been listening to the California cd, and it is a beautiful  cd.
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« Reply #56 on: November 02, 2015, 06:56:53 PM »

I liked the song. A masterpiece compared to SIP.
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« Reply #57 on: November 02, 2015, 10:18:49 PM »

As a producer, Curt Boettcher had few peers. He did a first rate job given what he was asked to do. Perhaps it was a mistake to put the near eleven minute  Here Comes the  Night  on  L.A. Light. That it was done at the end of the disco craze was Bruce's idea. I have been listening to the California cd, and it is a beautiful  cd.

Peter, I've misplaced that CD, please remind me - doesn't the basic "HCTN" disco riff and bvs first show up on "I Can Hear Music"... or another track on it ?
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« Reply #58 on: November 03, 2015, 12:46:11 AM »

Andrew, It is a product of a UK reissue label. I forget the name, but I'll look for it and get back with you...
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« Reply #59 on: November 03, 2015, 02:35:35 AM »

As a producer, Curt Boettcher had few peers. He did a first rate job given what he was asked to do. Perhaps it was a mistake to put the near eleven minute  Here Comes the  Night  on  L.A. Light. That it was done at the end of the disco craze was Bruce's idea. I have been listening to the California cd, and it is a beautiful  cd.

Despite a large amount of cheese the California Music record does have its moments, I love their rendition of Jamaica Farewell and it was interesting to hear Brand New Old Friends (which I think is a much better song than Happy Endings).
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« Reply #60 on: November 03, 2015, 07:56:45 AM »

Aside from over-saturation and that awful Disco Demolition Night, I think a big part of the blowback was anti-gay sentiments and the fact that disco was often associated with that. I mean, if im not mistaken, thats where it came from, gay nightclubs. I wonder if, with attitudes slowly but surely improving, maybe the Disco label may some day be cool again?

Interesting that you say this Mujan, because guess who basically said the same thing in an interview once?

Bruce Johnston!

And I agree with him (and you).
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« Reply #61 on: November 03, 2015, 09:41:43 AM »

Wasn't it also Bruce's idea to re-re-record "Surfin'" into a Britney Spears-esque Pop song?  I remember him threatening us with one during some interview in the late 90's / early 00's.  I think the song even scored one lone play on some radio station.  Did anyone actually hear the damn thing?
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« Reply #62 on: November 03, 2015, 10:20:33 AM »

This is kind of off topic, but I wonder what the last "disco" song was?

Disco never died!!!

 Uptown Funk is surely disco, and that was a smash all over the world this summer....

Aside from over-saturation and that awful Disco Demolition Night, I think a big part of the blowback was anti-gay sentiments and the fact that disco was often associated with that. I mean, if im not mistaken, thats where it came from, gay nightclubs. I wonder if, with attitudes slowly but surely improving, maybe the Disco label may some day be cool again?

I really don't think anti-gay sentiments had a lot to do with the hate directed at disco.  When anything becomes too popular, there's always a bit of a backlash. 

I know a lot of the anti-disco crowd were rock fans.  They were likely getting annoyed at the fact that disco was so popular that many rock bands were doing disco style songs (ie.  Kiss, Rod Stewart, The Rolling Stones, McCartney, The Beach Boys, Pink Floyd). 

Disco never died.  It just evolved.  House, trance, techno, electro, EDM, etc. 

And as a rock fan, I still can't stand it. 
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« Reply #63 on: November 03, 2015, 10:48:32 AM »

This is kind of off topic, but I wonder what the last "disco" song was?

Disco never died!!!

 Uptown Funk is surely disco, and that was a smash all over the world this summer....

Aside from over-saturation and that awful Disco Demolition Night, I think a big part of the blowback was anti-gay sentiments and the fact that disco was often associated with that. I mean, if im not mistaken, thats where it came from, gay nightclubs. I wonder if, with attitudes slowly but surely improving, maybe the Disco label may some day be cool again?

I really don't think anti-gay sentiments had a lot to do with the hate directed at disco.  When anything becomes too popular, there's always a bit of a backlash. 

I know a lot of the anti-disco crowd were rock fans.  They were likely getting annoyed at the fact that disco was so popular that many rock bands were doing disco style songs (ie.  Kiss, Rod Stewart, The Rolling Stones, McCartney, The Beach Boys, Pink Floyd). 

Disco never died.  It just evolved.  House, trance, techno, electro, EDM, etc. 

And as a rock fan, I still can't stand it. 

That was definitely the main antagonism to it, but I think its naive to think homophobia didnt play at least a part in the backlash. In the 70s, it was accepted that cops would raid and shut down gay bars/clubs for no real reason when they had nothing better to do, just because it was fun. Picking on gay people was not only tolerated but encouraged in a lot of places. Funny enough even in the movie Saturday Night Fever, which launched Disco to the mainstream, there's a scene where they harass a gay couple they see on the street. Its easy to forget now with acceptance at all time highs, but gay bashing was really prevalent. Not only that, but again, until late 77 and 78 Disco was very niche. It started in gay bars and later some black clubs before getting mainstream attention. Its not like black people were totally loved by all in society either--Civil Rights was just ten odd years prior, and its not like that act in itself suddenly made everything ok between black and white. I really think the excuse to hate on gay culture and black culture played a significant role in spurring on the attack of all things Disco. I think its fair to question how much that was a factor is fair, but to deny that it played a part entirely is incorrect and whitewashing history. And while Disco lived on, it definitely died in that the very name became taboo (and still is today) a lot of the artists associated with it lost their fame and careers, it was driven back underground, and its mostly thought of as this very weird embarassing trend by people nowadays, a reputation that I think is really unfair.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 10:49:30 AM by Mujan, B@st@rd of a Blue Wizard » Logged

Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #64 on: November 03, 2015, 11:00:58 AM »

This is kind of off topic, but I wonder what the last "disco" song was?

Disco never died!!!

 Uptown Funk is surely disco, and that was a smash all over the world this summer....

Aside from over-saturation and that awful Disco Demolition Night, I think a big part of the blowback was anti-gay sentiments and the fact that disco was often associated with that. I mean, if im not mistaken, thats where it came from, gay nightclubs. I wonder if, with attitudes slowly but surely improving, maybe the Disco label may some day be cool again?

I really don't think anti-gay sentiments had a lot to do with the hate directed at disco.  When anything becomes too popular, there's always a bit of a backlash. 

I know a lot of the anti-disco crowd were rock fans.  They were likely getting annoyed at the fact that disco was so popular that many rock bands were doing disco style songs (ie.  Kiss, Rod Stewart, The Rolling Stones, McCartney, The Beach Boys, Pink Floyd). 

Disco never died.  It just evolved.  House, trance, techno, electro, EDM, etc. 

And as a rock fan, I still can't stand it. 

That was definitely the main antagonism to it, but I think its naive to think homophobia didnt play at least a part in the backlash. In the 70s, it was accepted that cops would raid and shut down gay bars/clubs for no real reason when they had nothing better to do, just because it was fun. Picking on gay people was not only tolerated but encouraged in a lot of places. Funny enough even in the movie Saturday Night Fever, which launched Disco to the mainstream, there's a scene where they harass a gay couple they see on the street. Its easy to forget now with acceptance at all time highs, but gay bashing was really prevalent. Not only that, but again, until late 77 and 78 Disco was very niche. It started in gay bars and later some black clubs before getting mainstream attention. Its not like black people were totally loved by all in society either--Civil Rights was just ten odd years prior, and its not like that act in itself suddenly made everything ok between black and white. I really think the excuse to hate on gay culture and black culture played a significant role in spurring on the attack of all things Disco. I think its fair to question how much that was a factor is fair, but to deny that it played a part entirely is incorrect and whitewashing history. And while Disco lived on, it definitely died in that the very name became taboo (and still is today) a lot of the artists associated with it lost their fame and careers, it was driven back underground, and its mostly thought of as this very weird embarassing trend by people nowadays, a reputation that I think is really unfair.

I won't deny that homophobia played a part, but I don't think it was the primary reason for the backlash.

Disco also died because of the limitations of the genre. 

I'm a big fan of the hard rock of the 1980s that's cynically referred to as "hair metal."  Much like disco, the formulas of the genre didn't really give the artists involved a lot of room to grow.  Even though I'm a fan of the music, I'll admit that it was very formulaic.  Then, you had your copycat groups.   When a genre can't grow, and is very much a product of its era, it's going to die off. 

Like disco, many established acts tried to conform to the "hair metal" formula.  Whitesnake, Judas Priest, and Kiss wrote songs very much in line with the "hair metal" formula. 

Like disco, many want to write off "hair metal" as a blight on the history of rock and roll.  Like disco, the songs still live on in music and movies, and many of the artists now do well on the nostalgia circuit. 

Like disco, there may have also been an element of homophobia as the glammed up bands on the strip in the 80s were often harassed by denim and leather wearing metalheads. 

So, basically, disco and "hair metal" ceased to be relevant mainly because, as genres, they're very limited. 
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« Reply #65 on: November 04, 2015, 02:44:58 AM »

Let's move this thread on....


 So, what Beach Boys song do you think would be best to discofy?

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« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2015, 07:14:50 AM »

I had heard in early 1979 there was some brief talk among band members back in the Spring of 1979 to possibly do a disco version of Roller Skating Child... issued possibly as an extended live single... but it never went anywhere. I am assuming, after the HCTN backlash, that plan went on hold... though it might have been the perfect choice.
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« Reply #67 on: November 04, 2015, 09:21:04 AM »

Discofying any Beach Boy song was, is and always will be a risky proposal.  "Fying" of any order, opens the creative door to transparencies and clichés.  Playing a song live or collectively with a different edge or spirit -- is how you get to a different rendition.

For example, hearing the Beach Boys open with California Girls in the late 70s/early 80s with Dennis on the drums -- is a visceral experience.  The song rocks.  But a blatant concerted attempt to "rock-ify" the song would most likely fail and be overly transparent, filled with boring clichés.

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« Reply #68 on: November 04, 2015, 09:29:17 AM »

...I think its naive to think homophobia didnt play at least a part in the backlash.

Blatant sexuality or hedonistic displays of any order, typically do not withstand scrutiny -- be it intellectual or public patience.
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« Reply #69 on: November 04, 2015, 09:50:53 AM »

...I think its naive to think homophobia didnt play at least a part in the backlash.

Blatant sexuality or hedonistic displays of any order, typically do not withstand scrutiny -- be it intellectual or public patience.
Hmmm...  I would say that upper- and middle-class heterosexual white guys have been getting winks and boys-will-be-boys patience for hedonistic displays for many centuries.



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« Reply #70 on: November 04, 2015, 10:04:49 AM »

...but do you feel it withstands scrutiny?
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« Reply #71 on: November 04, 2015, 10:17:56 AM »

...but do you feel it withstands scrutiny?
Depends on the actual activity and who's doing the scrutinizing. Obviously it has withstood the scrutiny of many people for many centuries. My scrutiny? If it's not harmful to others and if people aren't being pressured into it, I don't mind hedonism particularly.
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« Reply #72 on: November 04, 2015, 11:12:32 AM »

Emily, you and I are engaged in hedonism by continuing to divert this topic.  Regardless of how politely we speak to each other.  It does not matter who is doing the scrutinizing, nor does your tolerance of hedonistic behavior.  Any blatant subversion of the established and expected norms will not survive intellectual scrutiny -- or public patience.
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« Reply #73 on: November 04, 2015, 06:24:22 PM »

...I think its naive to think homophobia didnt play at least a part in the backlash.

Blatant sexuality or hedonistic displays of any order, typically do not withstand scrutiny -- be it intellectual or public patience.

I know Studio 54 was infamous for its hedonism, but they were shut down for tax evasion not that. Disco itself was not overtly hedonistic. Its just dancing. And back in those days dancing meant actual dancing, not grinding aka dry humping like now. By your logic it should be the modern house music everyone rebels against, not disco
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #74 on: November 04, 2015, 06:54:25 PM »

Let's move this thread on....


 So, what Beach Boys song do you think would be best to discofy?



Since this is hypothetical, I'd like to de-discofy Runaway Dancer, from NPP. 
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