Surprising tracks: released and unreleased

[punkinhead]

While we're on the subject, I kinda can't believe the Mt. Vernon various instrumental cuts were included on the GV box set...It seems like something we'd get on a Hawthorne CA disc or a re-release of Holland. It's possibly one of the best, previously unreleased, non-Smile, track included on that box set.

Two words. David. Leaf.

so not such a bad guy after all? 


I guess we could devote a whole post to good/bad things about him 

[rogerlancelot]

While we're on the subject, I kinda can't believe the Mt. Vernon various instrumental cuts were included on the GV box set...It seems like something we'd get on a Hawthorne CA disc or a re-release of Holland. It's possibly one of the best, previously unreleased, non-Smile, track included on that box set.

Two words. David. Leaf.

so not such a bad guy after all? 


First Bad Thing:
Beautiful Dreamer

I guess we could devote a whole post to good/bad things about him 

[Mr. Cohen]

...

[punkinhead]

While we're on the subject, I kinda can't believe the Mt. Vernon various instrumental cuts were included on the GV box set...It seems like something we'd get on a Hawthorne CA disc or a re-release of Holland. It's possibly one of the best, previously unreleased, non-Smile, track included on that box set.

Two words. David. Leaf.

so not such a bad guy after all? 


First Bad Thing:
Beautiful Dreamer

I guess we could devote a whole post to good/bad things about him 

We don't like Beautiful Dreamer?

[rogerlancelot]

While we're on the subject, I kinda can't believe the Mt. Vernon various instrumental cuts were included on the GV box set...It seems like something we'd get on a Hawthorne CA disc or a re-release of Holland. It's possibly one of the best, previously unreleased, non-Smile, track included on that box set.

Two words. David. Leaf.

so not such a bad guy after all? 


First Bad Thing:
Beautiful Dreamer

I guess we could devote a whole post to good/bad things about him 

We don't like Beautiful Dreamer?

I loved it when I first saw it in 2004 but now I find it 1-sided and not very factual. Kind of on the other end of the spectrum of the American Family tv thing. Or comparing FOX news to MSNBC here in the states. I prefer the second disc (the concert and bonus interviews) but my copy is 1400 miles away so I'll have to wait to watch it again.

[punkinhead]

I didn't know one of the Smiley members felt this way, do others?

Why do you think it's one sided? because there's no other BB involvement?

[rogerlancelot]

I didn't know one of the Smiley members felt this way, do others?

Why do you think it's one sided? because there's no other BB involvement?

It's been a few years since I've seen it but it doesn't paint the other BBs in a good way. Also watching Brian during early vocal rehearsals is very depressing. I'd go with Endless Harmony as my favorite more balanced documentary.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I didn't know one of the Smiley members felt this way, do others?

Why do you think it's one sided? because there's no other BB involvement?

It's been a few years since I've seen it but it doesn't paint the other BBs in a good way. Also watching Brian during early vocal rehearsals is very depressing. I'd go with Endless Harmony as my favorite more balanced documentary.

Two things did it for me:

1 - the editing that made it look like Paul went backstage before the first show...

2 - the amount of time afforded to the odious, smug, greasy, unrepentant Loren Daro (Schwartz) to tell his tales of turning Brian on to acid.

[rogerlancelot]

I didn't know one of the Smiley members felt this way, do others?

Why do you think it's one sided? because there's no other BB involvement?

It's been a few years since I've seen it but it doesn't paint the other BBs in a good way. Also watching Brian during early vocal rehearsals is very depressing. I'd go with Endless Harmony as my favorite more balanced documentary.

Two things did it for me:

1 - the editing that made it look like Paul went backstage before the first show...

2 - the amount of time afforded to the odious, smug, greasy, unrepentant Loren Daro (Schwartz) to tell his tales of turning Brian on to acid.

Both valid points. Anderle came across well though but not as much as Ed Roach in the Dennis doc (he would be a BLAST to hang out with!). It seems to me that BD was made to look Brian crazier than he is but then again I've never met the guy so I don't really know. I'm learning more about him from hanging out here than I ever had before.

[The Heartical Don]

While we're on the subject, I kinda can't believe the Mt. Vernon various instrumental cuts were included on the GV box set...It seems like something we'd get on a Hawthorne CA disc or a re-release of Holland. It's possibly one of the best, previously unreleased, non-Smile, track included on that box set.

Two words. David. Leaf.

so not such a bad guy after all? 


First Bad Thing:
Beautiful Dreamer

I guess we could devote a whole post to good/bad things about him 

We don't like Beautiful Dreamer?

Did the Party Line change? Gotta call Kim Jong-Il ASAP, now that he still can do an edict on that one. I don't wanna go to the Gulag.

[Mike's Beard]

It was a good documentary for sure but it did try to reinforce the myth once again that Smile was shelved due to the rest of the group hating it.

Lets look at the members indivdual reactions to the project.

Dennis loved it unconditionally. He thought it was Brian's best work yet.
Carl also loved it but had reservations about how well it would appeal to existing fans. He also produced a track around this period with a very similar Smile feel to it so he was willing to go in this direction for better or worse.
Al seemed more worried about Brian's drug intake then the direction of the music.
Mike voiced strong concerns but then he'd also been against much of Pet Sounds.
Bruce wasn't yet an official member so I doubt he would have felt in the position to offer much opinion either way.

So to say 'the band hated it' is just not true.

[drbeachboy]

My opinion is that if the band was willing and did release the much weirder Smiley Smile album, then I doubt whether there was a whole lot of resistance against the Smile tracks. They may have voiced their concerns at first, but if Brian had finished Smile, the band would have released it.

[The Heartical Don]

My opinion is that if the band was willing and did release the much weirder Smiley Smile album, then I doubt whether there was a whole lot of resistance against the Smile tracks. They may have voiced their concerns at first, but if Brian had finished Smile, the band would have released it.

Yes... but isn't fiction more adveturous than bland truth? What are we to do with all the myths, worries, love, fear, concern, hate, dreadful rows, friendships re-built, and thousands of bootlegs that we cherished like splinters of the Holy Cross itself over all of these years?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Mike voiced strong concerns but then he'd also been against much of Pet Sounds.

Always remember, as much as Mike might have voiced his concerns and reservations with this material, he then proceeded to do his best for Brian: he might not have had a clue what "over and over/the crow cries/uncover the cornfield" meant, but he sang the bejazus out of it. 

[Wirestone]

Yes -- any discussion about BB hate for Smile ultimately comes down to a handful of confounding facts.

-- There was some dissent in the band over Smile music (and, more generally, the whole PS-GV progression into pop-psych).

-- All the band members still did it.

-- Smiley Smile -- perhaps the least-commercial album by a major band -- was released in Smile's place.

And as much as we talk and discuss and argue, these facts are all still true. And it brings us to that irritating place where heroes and villains are few, motives are plentiful, and mental illness begins to ruin the life of one Brian Douglas Wilson.

[Roger Ryan]

I agree with Andrew's criticisms along with disliking the overly-simplistic "band didn't like it" slant. But, overall, I think BEAUTIFUL DREAMER at least attempts to address the SMiLE issue at length (which the other docs were not able to do). While I think the inclusion of the "here's how we should put SMiLE together" staged footage between Darian and Brian was a mistake, I'm commend Leaf on including the footage of Brian barely cooperating with the early tour rehearsals; it's harrowing stuff, but really shows the mood swings Brian's mental illness can cause.

[drbeachboy]

My opinion is that if the band was willing and did release the much weirder Smiley Smile album, then I doubt whether there was a whole lot of resistance against the Smile tracks. They may have voiced their concerns at first, but if Brian had finished Smile, the band would have released it.

Yes... but isn't fiction more adveturous than bland truth? What are we to do with all the myths, worries, love, fear, concern, hate, dreadful rows, friendships re-built, and thousands of bootlegs that we cherished like splinters of the Holy Cross itself over all of these years?

Mike gets a bum rap as the person who single-handedly killed Smile. As the years have passed, the picture becomes clearer and clearer that Brian alone killed Smile. The true life of Brian in 1966 has to read just as bizarre as any myth or work of fiction. Like Curly of the Three Stooges said: "Truth is stranger than fiction, Judgy Wudgy".

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm commend Leaf on including the footage of Brian barely cooperating with the early tour rehearsals; it's harrowing stuff, but really shows the mood swings Brian's mental illness can cause.

Do you think that footage would have been shown, or indeed would there have been any DVD at all, if the eventual outcome had been less uplifting ?  Triumph in the face of adversity - been a staple cliche of the movie business since the days of Edison and Lumiere.

As the years have passed, the picture becomes clearer and clearer that Brian alone killed Smile.

An irrefutable fact. Who said "that's it, not doing this any more" ?  Here's a hint: his initials weren't MEL.  Brian did what he considered necessary at the time to retain his sanity, and the odds are he was entirely justified in this decision, but in the final analysis, his was the finger on the 'off' switch.

[drbeachboy]

I think had Brian had a clear plan of what he wanted to do and how to pull it all together, Mike would have continued on. For the rest of the band, recording Smile must have felt scattered and disorienting. I'm sure all the work that they put into it and not hearing fully delveloped results had to be frustrating. These guys were used to working in a structured environment singing fully structured songs, not the fragments that they were recording for many of the Smile tunes.

[Mikie]

"SMiLE wasn't Beach Boys music."

- Brian Wilson


Uh............yeah, sure, Brian.  And Smiley Smile was?

Been wondering about that one for years.

[Menace Wilson]

Beautiful Dreamer taught me that dropping acid is like being in a Disney movie, full of puffy clowds and floating musical notes!  Whee!

C'mon.

I love it because it's Brian and it's the story of Smile, but I have major issues with the way they dealt with "the red herring" subject of drugs.  And I agree with Andrew...Schwartz turns my stomach.   

[Roger Ryan]

I'm commend Leaf on including the footage of Brian barely cooperating with the early tour rehearsals; it's harrowing stuff, but really shows the mood swings Brian's mental illness can cause.

Do you think that footage would have been shown, or indeed would there have been any DVD at all, if the eventual outcome had been less uplifting ?  Triumph in the face of adversity - been a staple cliche of the movie business since the days of Edison and Lumiere.

True...but it wasn't as if they had no other "adversity" to show! I still feel that scene is an honest document of Brian shutting down and attempting to withdraw from the situation.

[Sam_BFC]

I couldn't agree more about Loren.

It was a good documentary for sure but it did try to reinforce the myth once again that Smile was shelved due to the rest of the group hating it.

Lets look at the members in-divdual reactions to the project.

Dennis loved it unconditionally. He thought it was Brian's best work yet.

The 'Smile is so good it makes Pet Sounds stink' quote is referenced in the doc, though briefly.

Mike voiced strong concerns but then he'd also been against much of Pet Sounds.

Always remember, as much as Mike might have voiced his concerns and reservations with this material, he then proceeded to do his best for Brian: he might not have had a clue what "over and over/the crow cries/uncover the cornfield" meant, but he sang the bejazus out of it. 

Is it not a little more complicated though because one vocal session was cancelled altogether because of certain tensions wasn't it?

"SMiLE wasn't Beach Boys music."

- Brian Wilson

Where is that quote from?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Always remember, as much as Mike might have voiced his concerns and reservations with this material, he then proceeded to do his best for Brian: he might not have had a clue what "over and over/the crow cries/uncover the cornfield" meant, but he sang the bejazus out of it. 

Is it not a little more complicated though because one vocal session was cancelled altogether because of certain tensions wasn't it?

Not heard that before. Source, please ?  Brian cancelled some sessions because "the vibes" weren't right, but those were for tracks, not vocals.

[Mikie]

Where is that quote from?

I made it up.