so what's the story on Gettin In Over My Head

[punkinhead]

"City Blues" was also performed on the same tour but it wasn't as strong without Clapton on guitar.

I had actually heard a lot of praise for Scott Bennett's (I think he played it) guitar work on City Blues when they toured it...even more than Clapton's.  Speaking of Clapton and BW, I know Clapton has said he's been influence by BW (maybe Pet Sounds), does his music with Cream or the Dominoes or his solo efforts show that influence? I'm not as familiar with his work

[Jay]

If anything, the piano coda for Layla sounds like something Dennis would do.

[BJL]

If anything, the piano coda for Layla sounds like something Dennis would do.

The piano coda to Layla was actually written by Derek and the Dominos drummer, Jim Gordon, who played percussion on Pet Sounds as a member of the wrecking crew!  Unfortunately, he came to a very sad end, murdered his mother, and is in an insane asylum now...

The Derek and the Dominos stuff is really driven as much by Duane Allman as by Clapton, he was the better guitarist in that band (hard as it is to imagine Clapton not being the best guitarist in his own band!) but if anything, there's more of a Phil Spector influence than a brian wilson one.  Although it is clearly a blues record, it has a really fat wall of sound sort of production that reminds me a little of All Things Must Pass...which makes perfect sense, since Derek and the Dominoes were a large part of the backing band on All Thing Must Pass earlier that very year, and so they had been working with Spector...in fact, Spector produced their first single, Tell the Truth, which was released and then immediately pulled...they rerecorded it for the album. 

The Beach Boys connections are getting even more tenous now, but I believe Jim Gordon and Dominos bass Carl Radle also played on the Mad Dogs and Englishman Tour with Joe Cocker, which, if I've got my stories straight, means they may have shown up at one David Mark's house in Boston and caused quite a stir!! 

As for the rest of Clapton's stuff, I don't think that his 60s work was really overtly Wilson influenced, I think he just liked the records.  And his post Dominos work is pretty boring so far as I'm concerned...I don't know if it has a Beach Boys influence because I havn't listened to much of it, but he really lost his touch... 

On a related topic, I think it's really interesting how it seems many of the members of this board have non beach boys musical interests that are pretty weird and that they have delved pretty deeply into...someone, if I recall, collects rare ska records or something of that sort?  I know that I for a long time liked Duane Allman and the Allman Bros. almost as much as the Beach Boys (hence my knowledge about Derek and the Dominos) and that's really saying something! 

I also collect John Fahey records. 

bj

[Runaways]

If anything, the piano coda for Layla sounds like something Dennis would do.

The piano coda to Layla was actually written by Derek and the Dominos drummer, Jim Gordon, who played percussion on Pet Sounds as a member of the wrecking crew!  Unfortunately, he came to a very sad end, murdered his mother, and is in an insane asylum now...

@%@#^@#^!!

[Jay]

The story of Jim Gordon is one of the saddest in rock music. It's to bad he ended up the way he did. He was one hell of a drummer!

[ukulelejesus]

Between BW88 and BWPS, Brian didn't do much of note except IJWMFTT which is really great as a showcase, nto of his performance, but of his sheer songwriting ability. Imagination is an overrated song, so is Love and Mercy, and I lvoe BW88, but up until BWPS he hadn't done much except BW88 which is like Love You 2.5 (With Adult/Child being the .5). I really dig Lucky Old Sun and BWRG though, Smile really got him back on track. His awesome band of Brian Wilson cultists probbaly helps. Brian really deserves some cultists and it's good he's got a whole band of brilliant ones.

I guess I'm saying f*** Imagination. Even without the sh*t production it's just not great. lay Down burden is close but the sh*t lyrics ruin it. I know Brian Wilson Song Lyrics aren't a thing to go by, but usually even the bad ones have some character. The TLOS lyrics, even when not stellar, have character. Imagination just lacks character.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Desert Drive stayed til 2005, at least, cos I remember seeing him play it in Brighton that year!

AGD, I've been meaning to ask - were you at that show?

Yes, I was.

[Runaways]

Between BW88 and BWPS, Brian didn't do much of note except IJWMFTT which is really great as a showcase, nto of his performance, but of his sheer songwriting ability. Imagination is an overrated song, so is Love and Mercy, and I lvoe BW88, but up until BWPS he hadn't done much except BW88 which is like Love You 2.5 (With Adult/Child being the .5). I really dig Lucky Old Sun and BWRG though, Smile really got him back on track. His awesome band of Brian Wilson cultists probbaly helps. Brian really deserves some cultists and it's good he's got a whole band of brilliant ones.

I guess I'm saying foder Imagination. Even without the merda production it's just not great. lay Down burden is close but the merda lyrics ruin it. I know Brian Wilson Song Lyrics aren't a thing to go by, but usually even the bad ones have some character. The TLOS lyrics, even when not stellar, have character. Imagination just lacks character.

you've got to be one of the worst trolls ever

[Wirestone]

Run -- I would definitely try the album. You can buy it on Amazon, used, for a buck. Worst that can happen is you don't like it. I've defended the darn thing since it came out -- not to deny the obvious issues, but to accept them in the way we accept a lot of such stuff with Brian, and actually listen.

There was a real conceptual problem with the record. Brian had jjst premiered Smile live. In the summer of 04, the last thing anyone wanted to hear from him was a collection of modest originals. If it had been released at a different time, with a slightly more flattering mix and better sequencing, people might talk about it in a very different way.

[Curtis Leon]

The main problem I have with Imagination. (And yes, Gettin' In Over My Head) is that they basically sound like Brian pushing out product. Those two albums are the ones most lacking the spark of genius on your average Wilson album, and it shows horribly. The stupid 90s synths don't help either, sucking a lot of life out of the songs.

That said, there's still high points on both albums, and they should both be checked out by someone with more than a passing interest in Wilson.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Run -- I would definitely try the album. You can buy it on Amazon, used, for a buck. Worst that can happen is you don't like it. I've defended the darn thing since it came out -- not to deny the obvious issues, but to accept them in the way we accept a lot of such stuff with Brian, and actually listen.

There was a real conceptual problem with the record. Brian had jjst premiered Smile live. In the summer of 04, the last thing anyone wanted to hear from him was a collection of modest originals. If it had been released at a different time, with a slightly more flattering mix and better sequencing, people might talk about it in a very different way.

Not sure it would have helped any had it been released as originally intended December 2003/January 2004. To adopt the Stein (G.) idiom, "rubbish album is a rubbish album is a rubbish album"

The main problem I have with Imagination. (And yes, Gettin' In Over My Head) is that they basically sound like Brian pushing out product. Those two albums are the ones most lacking the spark of genius on your average Wilson album, and it shows horribly.

Good reason for that - Brian wasn't that much interested in either project. But he went along with the joke, just to be amenable.

[guitarfool2002]

The story of Jim Gordon is one of the saddest in rock music. It's to bad he ended up the way he did. He was one hell of a drummer!

That's him on Classical Gas by Mason Williams, one of his all time greatest performances kicking an orchestra like that, and he was a young man in his 20's. Amazing talent. Tons of hit records on his resume, yet he got written out of rock history on a lot of those records, where his credits stand among the more widely-known session drummers like Blaine, Palmer, Purdie, Porcaro, etc.

Also...Check out Michael Viner's Incredible Bongo Band's version of "Apache"...that is Jim Gordon laying down a funky drum groove that was soon to be sampled literally hundreds of times and appeared on rap and breakbeat grooves from artists like the Sugarhill Gang to Beck and beyond. That drum groove has been listed as among the most sampled in history, and it's Jim Gordon.

Plus, he's on the original Fire!

It's a tragedy in his personal life but by the same token his work has to be separated from his personal life to be recognized and appreciated on the level it should be. Jim was one of the best ever.

PS...he also showed Frank Zappa how to "tap" notes with two hands on the guitar, according to what Zappa revealed in a television interview in the 70's.

[Wirestone]

Not sure it would have helped any had it been released as originally intended December 2003/January 2004. To adopt the Stein (G.) idiom, "rubbish album is a rubbish album is a rubbish album"

Personal taste, dear sir. And please note that I added in a couple of other caveats -- mix and sequencing. Add those, along with time of release, and the reception may well have been different.

Good reason for that - Brian wasn't that much interested in either project. But he went along with the joke, just to be amenable.

That strikes me as too simplistic, certainly in the case of Imagination.

-----

To me, and this has been my feeling since the album was released, GIOMH is a low-key, sometimes ramshackle ramble through Brian's unreleased solo output. It has many charming moments, some real sparks of inspiration and a few great songs. It's also too long, mixed somewhat carelessly, has a couple of duff songs and is poorly sequenced. But it's nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. It is, in fact, a decent BW solo album.

[absinthe_boy]

Before one of the GIOMH tunes in the Glasgow BWPS show--really early March '04, I guess--he introduced one of the tunes as being from his next album along the lines of "..which will be coming out on my next album, in ... actually, I don't know when it's coming out." The audience laughed. Obviously, this being a friggin' Smile show. One of my favorite BW concert moments.

At the Portsmouth Guildhall in August 2004, Brian introduced SMiLE by saying something along the lines of "Are you guys ready for SMiLE? I wrote it for you. It hasn't been released yet. It's going to be, I think, I'm not sure when".....the release was just weeks away! Still I guess that wasn't of interest to him.

In the first half, he announced he was going to sing the title track from his latest album (GIOMH) and a lady in the audience shouted out "Brian, I love listening to your new CD" and it really put him off for about half a verse.

AGD can confirm if my memory is correct as I believe he was there.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Before one of the GIOMH tunes in the Glasgow BWPS show--really early March '04, I guess--he introduced one of the tunes as being from his next album along the lines of "..which will be coming out on my next album, in ... actually, I don't know when it's coming out." The audience laughed. Obviously, this being a friggin' Smile show. One of my favorite BW concert moments.

At the Portsmouth Guildhall in August 2004, Brian introduced SMiLE by saying something along the lines of "Are you guys ready for SMiLE? I wrote it for you. It hasn't been released yet. It's going to be, I think, I'm not sure when".....the release was just weeks away! Still I guess that wasn't of interest to him.

In the first half, he announced he was going to sing the title track from his latest album (GIOMH) and a lady in the audience shouted out "Brian, I love listening to your new CD" and it really put him off for about half a verse.

AGD can confirm if my memory is correct as I believe he was there.

I was, and you are. One of the more personally embarrassing gigs I've been to as I had to leave during the encore to catch the last train home, and as the show wasn't spectacularly well attended, my exit was most obvious. And it got worse: about a week later, in London backstage after a show, I was collared by a band member who said "we saw you walk out of the Portsmouth show before the end - were we that bad ?"

[absinthe_boy]

I didn't notice you leave, I was fairly near the front...4th row. Guy about Jeff Foskett's size with a big camera

The Guild Hall certainly wasn't full, which surprised me. I'd estimate it was 3/4 or more full however, there was a good atmosphere...especially for the encores which achieved the near impossible feat of getting me up and dancing. I just don't dance, I have at least two left feet. I wish I'd managed to record the gig now...as no recordings have surfaced. After a slow start, Brian was on form as far as I could tell.

[Roger Ryan]

I maintain that Brian's lead vocal on "Gettin' In Over My Head" during his Oct. 2004 show at the Michigan Theatre in Ann Arbor, MI was fantastic, significantly stronger than on the album (perhaps smoother than the earlier Paley run-through as well). Even with a great performance of BWPS that night, it was one of the show's highlights for me.

[hypehat]

Desert Drive stayed til 2005, at least, cos I remember seeing him play it in Brighton that year!

AGD, I've been meaning to ask - were you at that show?

Yes, I was.

Was it... good? I really enjoyed myself, but then I was 15 and had next to no clue about Brian besides Pet Sounds and my new copy of BWPS..... It was also the first time I heard a LOT of beach boy hits!

Is there a setlist floating about? I checked Erics site, but it's not up there.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Desert Drive stayed til 2005, at least, cos I remember seeing him play it in Brighton that year!

AGD, I've been meaning to ask - were you at that show?

Yes, I was.

Was it... good? I really enjoyed myself, but then I was 15 and had next to no clue about Brian besides Pet Sounds and my new copy of BWPS..... It was also the first time I heard a LOT of beach boy hits!

Is there a setlist floating about? I checked Erics site, but it's not up there.

Wasn't the best I've ever seen him - Birmingham next night was better, and the same setlist - but he was OK. On the other hand, Hampton Court, the first show of the summer '05 European tour, was absolutely dire. Band were under-rehearsed (not just my opinion, that's what one of them told me), the sound was diabolical and Brian just wasn't interested that night. That said, the Henrys and Henriettas surrounding me thought it was just great. Go figure.

If you're at any of the RFH gigs next year, come up and say 'hi' - I'll be the one surrounded by about ten people and talking complete bollocks. 

[hypehat]

Thanks for the info! Looking at that setlist brings back some good memories. I had a nice time... I definitely remember Pet Sounds, GOK, In My Room and Surfer Girl (First time i heard them!), Marcella and especially Our Prayer...

I have to get a ticket first, but sure! I'll be the malnourished student in big glasses 

[bgas]

If you're at any of the RFH gigs next year, come up and say 'hi' - I'll be the one surrounded by about ten people and talking complete bollocks. 

Sure!  I think I've seen you on the TV with your long hair and pimples.

[PhilSpectre]

To me, and this has been my feeling since the album was released, GIOMH is a low-key, sometimes ramshackle ramble through Brian's unreleased solo output. It has many charming moments, some real sparks of inspiration and a few great songs. It's also too long, mixed somewhat carelessly, has a couple of duff songs and is poorly sequenced. But it's nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. It is, in fact, a decent BW solo album.

Agreed. It's main weakness imo is some of Brian's undeniably 'rough' bv's on the album (a real shame he didn't let his band to them all, not just on Desert Drive)and one or two slightly too 'twee' songs.. It has decent versions of two of his best then unreleased '90s songs (the title track and Soul Searchin) and has a nice, coherent sound to it.

For me, it's kind of the Love You of his noughties output. Coming to the material new at time of release, I was impressed with the quality of many of the songs.

Not Pet Sounds, Smile or That Lucky Old Sun, but a pleasant mid-range record.

[Jason]

The main problem I have with Imagination. (And yes, Gettin' In Over My Head) is that they basically sound like Brian pushing out product.

I'd say his assembly line of godawful songs on MIU, KTSA, and the '85 album are applicable here too. And they were between twelve to twenty years before Imagination.

[Ganz Allein]

As bad as some of Sweet Insanity is, I think the remakes from that album (Don't Let Her Know She's an Angel, Make a Wish, Rainbow Eyes) were not improvements, especially vocally. I think the run of tracks 2 through 6 (Soul Searchin' to Desert Drive) is pretty good, but I don't care to hear the rest of the album again.

[summerinparadise.flac]

As bad as some of Sweet Insanity is, I think the remakes from that album (Don't Let Her Know She's an Angel, Make a Wish, Rainbow Eyes) were not improvements, especially vocally. I think the run of tracks 2 through 6 (Soul Searchin' to Desert Drive) is pretty good, but I don't care to hear the rest of the album again.

Agreed. And while people complain about the arrangements on Sweet Insanity, I'll take that version over Mertens (I'm assuming) porno funk intro to Don't Let Her Know She's an Angel. I swear a Shaft looking dude is going to come out and go to town on a young ladies body whenever I listen to that.