Brian's shouty vocals

[Wirestone]

Lots of discussion here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,9005.msg152382.html#msg152382

Here's a post of mine from that thread -- some of the follow-ups are well worth reading too.

----------

I said this on an earlier thread about vocal quality, and I think Alex hits the point right on the head.

I think modern Brian sounds like an older version of 80s Brian.

This is absolutely right. Brian has had roughly three voices in his career -- smooth 60s, gruff 70s and nuts 80s to now. And those first two voices had a lot in common. Brian's phrasing, for one. You could listen to BW in the mid-70s to the beginning of the 80s and know it was the same guy.

Example: On Jan. 14, 1981, Brian records Stevie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8G4xFpbijs



This is not a healthy Brian Wilson. He's in the depths, although not hugely fat yet. But listen to the song. You can hear remnants of the classic voice in there. A tic he would later show live -- clipping notes at the end of phrases -- pops up, but slightly. He has that classic California "cool" sound that defines his vocals with the Beach Boys.

Just two years later (and now under the care of Landy), Brian goes into the studio to record three demos. Black Widow, Little Children and In the Nighttime. You can listen to the 83 version of Little Children here:

http://www.myspace.com/officialbrianwilson/music/albums/brian-wilson-9544591



He's healthier. He's recording and touring. But something is off. The voice has changed -- it no longer sounds like the Brian Wilson of the 60s or the 70s or even two years prior. This is a version of the Brian Wilson voice we came to know through the 80s and 90s: Shouty, unhinged, with phrasing that seems off -- something has gone wrong. And it doesn't have to do with tone (which is pretty much the same) or range (which is likewise pretty unaffected).

This is just two years later. Two. Years.

It sounds -- to me -- like someone who doesn't quite know how to sing. During those two years, in some way, something happened to Brian. His voice has never been the same since. I would bet on drug-induced brain damage or a mini-stroke (and people who have mini-strokes don't often recognize that they've had them).

I don't think Brian realized that anything had happened. He didn't appear to struggle with his new voice, or act angry that anything had changed. I think he may have come to realize during his solo album that his voice was less expressive -- he talked a couple of times about how people think he "sabotaged" his performances on the album.

But it took until 1998, with Imagination, for someone to seriously sit down with Brian and deal with the vocals. And I think Joe Thomas deserves tremendous credit for making Brian sound -- well -- human again. It wasn't the double tracking. It wasn't the autotune. It was getting Brian to focus on phrasing and breath control.

This slow re-education has continued. Darian worked closely with Brian on his Smile leads. Melinda (I assume) brought in vocal coaches. And in TLOS and the Gershwin project, I think we finally have a Brian Wilson who has learned to phrase like a professional singer -- again.

He sounds like a professional version of his 80s voice, though. He can summon the BBs sound now and again, but he sounds like a different guy. Which, in many ways, he is.

[Jay]

Brian also had another voice. It seems to have started in 1991, and continued until Imagination. His voice on I Just Wasn't Made For These Times is very odd. I have not heard Brian sound like this before or since.

[Curtis Leon]

Brian also had another voice. It seems to have started in 1991, and continued until Imagination. His voice on I Just Wasn't Made For These Times is very odd. I have not heard Brian sound like this before or since.

There's a couple of things about the IJWMFTT vocals. For one, they're under-produced. I'm doubtful as to if they have auto-tune or double tracking at all on the songs. For two, he's singing much softer than he did on OCA or SI or BW88. And the final reason is that his vocals are starting to age. It sounds like a cross between Landy Brian and Imagination Brian.

[Wirestone]

On IJWMFTT, he's subtly double tracked on "Love and Mercy." And one other, I think, tho I don't remember which one.

Yeah, it's a weirdly pinched voice -- it's on a lot of the Paley tracks. I've chalked that up to Brian apparently starting to smoke again for a few years after Landy bowed out.

[Curtis Leon]

When did this start?

People have always said his vocals on GIOMH are shouty, especially his new vocals on Soul Searchin'.
But I've also read where people think Orange Crate Art's vocals have his shouting characteristics.

I myself would like to note Water Builds Up and Drip Drop as shouty vocals in my book; but I find nothing wrong with them.

First shouty vocal I know of is "Lucy Jones", 11/12/74. It got a whole lot worse, but that's the earliest one I've heard.

By the time Lucy Jones was recorded, was his voice already hoarse? Did his voice still have any of the "classic Brian" sound?

I just wonder what Brian vocal of that era it would best compare to. I think AGD may have said the vocals were most comparable to "Chapel of Love", which wasn't very good, per se, but it was fun. But if he was sounding supposedly "young" on "California Feelin'" a few weeks before, I'm confused. Although I'm sure this was probably right near the middle of the period of losing his voice.

I have to ask though, why did Brian's voice basically go from sounding like one person to sounding like an entirely different person? I mean, Nilsson went from A Little Touch of Schmilsson In The Night to P**** Cats vocally in one year. But he still sounded like the same person, and his vocals thereafter, while a little bit different, sounded like Harry Nilsson.

I do hear the young Brian in the performance of "God Only Knows" from the clip on YouTube that Paul Reiser introduces. Is it possible that this was always going to be Brian's "mature" voice, or do you think if he took better care we'd have ended up with a more Carl-like sound but just a bit shriller?

Well, there's an entire black era of Brian vocals, from 1973 to 15 Big Ones. What demos he had recorded are either locked in the vaults or lost. So basically we jump from Holland era straight to 15 Big Ones. That's the reason why you don't see a gradual decline. There's just a lack of released documents from the main period of vocal decline. As for how it happened.... Well, 5 packs of cigarettes and cocaine a day for about a year could ruin ANYONE's voice. It's a miracle he could still sing at all.

[Curtis Leon]

Lots of discussion here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,9005.msg152382.html#msg152382

Here's a post of mine from that thread -- some of the follow-ups are well worth reading too.

----------

I said this on an earlier thread about vocal quality, and I think Alex hits the point right on the head.

I think modern Brian sounds like an older version of 80s Brian.

This is absolutely right. Brian has had roughly three voices in his career -- smooth 60s, gruff 70s and nuts 80s to now. And those first two voices had a lot in common. Brian's phrasing, for one. You could listen to BW in the mid-70s to the beginning of the 80s and know it was the same guy.

Example: On Jan. 14, 1981, Brian records Stevie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8G4xFpbijs



This is not a healthy Brian Wilson. He's in the depths, although not hugely fat yet. But listen to the song. You can hear remnants of the classic voice in there. A tic he would later show live -- clipping notes at the end of phrases -- pops up, but slightly. He has that classic California "cool" sound that defines his vocals with the Beach Boys.

Just two years later (and now under the care of Landy), Brian goes into the studio to record three demos. Black Widow, Little Children and In the Nighttime. You can listen to the 83 version of Little Children here:

http://www.myspace.com/officialbrianwilson/music/albums/brian-wilson-9544591



He's healthier. He's recording and touring. But something is off. The voice has changed -- it no longer sounds like the Brian Wilson of the 60s or the 70s or even two years prior. This is a version of the Brian Wilson voice we came to know through the 80s and 90s: Shouty, unhinged, with phrasing that seems off -- something has gone wrong. And it doesn't have to do with tone (which is pretty much the same) or range (which is likewise pretty unaffected).

This is just two years later. Two. Years.

It sounds -- to me -- like someone who doesn't quite know how to sing. During those two years, in some way, something happened to Brian. His voice has never been the same since. I would bet on drug-induced brain damage or a mini-stroke (and people who have mini-strokes don't often recognize that they've had them).

I don't think Brian realized that anything had happened. He didn't appear to struggle with his new voice, or act angry that anything had changed. I think he may have come to realize during his solo album that his voice was less expressive -- he talked a couple of times about how people think he "sabotaged" his performances on the album.

But it took until 1998, with Imagination, for someone to seriously sit down with Brian and deal with the vocals. And I think Joe Thomas deserves tremendous credit for making Brian sound -- well -- human again. It wasn't the double tracking. It wasn't the autotune. It was getting Brian to focus on phrasing and breath control.

This slow re-education has continued. Darian worked closely with Brian on his Smile leads. Melinda (I assume) brought in vocal coaches. And in TLOS and the Gershwin project, I think we finally have a Brian Wilson who has learned to phrase like a professional singer -- again.

He sounds like a professional version of his 80s voice, though. He can summon the BBs sound now and again, but he sounds like a different guy. Which, in many ways, he is.

Did Brian ever take vocal lessons before he first started to sing, back in the early sixties? Did he ever have a vocal coach during the prime of his vocals?

[Wirestone]

I don't think so. It was all from instinct (and copying records).

I think that's probably what made it so hard for him later. As suggested by others, his huge weight gain (and loss) of the early 80s may have caused permanent physical changes that simply made it harder for him to sing -- to produce the notes. Thus, he would force them, and viola -- you have the shouty voice.

The trick, in recent years, seems simple enough. Brian sings in in the middle of his range, and more softly. That seems to take care of a lot of the other problems.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Did Brian ever take vocal lessons before he first started to sing, back in the early sixties? Did he ever have a vocal coach during the prime of his vocals?

The first time I know of Brian having vocal coaching was during the 1985 album sessions - Steve Levine made him see one.

[Curtis Leon]

I don't think so. It was all from instinct (and copying records).

I think that's probably what made it so hard for him later. As suggested by others, his huge weight gain (and loss) of the early 80s may have caused permanent physical changes that simply made it harder for him to sing -- to produce the notes. Thus, he would force them, and viola -- you have the shouty voice.

The trick, in recent years, seems simple enough. Brian sings in in the middle of his range, and more softly. That seems to take care of a lot of the other problems.

Hmm. Do you think that not taking proper singing lessons could've been a factor in his 1969-1974 vocal decline? Singing in falsetto strains the voice enough already, much less not doing proper vocal exercises and such.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Quite possibly, Leon.


Brian indeed was smoking again,up until 1994 (which partially explains his huge weight gain when he quit). As someone once told me, the famous story where Melinda almost hit him her car? He was going to have a smoke.

As for 1973-1975, that's one of the reasons why I'm so desperate to hear "California Feelin'" and "Lucy Jones". The former is apparently the last "classic Brian", and the latter apparently is "mid-period Brian". I will say this, though..if you've heard Brian's part of Johnny Rivers' version of "Help Me Rhonda"...Brian's voice had already changed by then.

[Runaways]

BB88 is filled with shouty vocals. hurts the album.  randomly on "let it shine" he doesn't sound as bad tonally.

[Curtis Leon]

Quite possibly, Leon.


Brian indeed was smoking again,up until 1994 (which partially explains his huge weight gain when he quit). As someone once told me, the famous story where Melinda almost hit him her car? He was going to have a smoke.

As for 1973-1975, that's one of the reasons why I'm so desperate to hear "California Feelin'" and "Lucy Jones". The former is apparently the last "classic Brian", and the latter apparently is "mid-period Brian". I will say this, though..if you've heard Brian's part of Johnny Rivers' version of "Help Me Rhonda"...Brian's voice had already changed by then.

I believe this is the track you're referring to, for all those wondering. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPToxd7h6hg

And indeed, it seems like Brian's falsetto was closer to the 15 Big Ones era than the Holland era by that part. It seems like a cross between the two, really.

[Wirestone]

The first time I know of Brian having vocal coaching was during the 1985 album sessions - Steve Levine made him see one.

Didn't a recent thread on this board suggest that a vocal coach was at the MIU sessions?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Having re-read what he has to say about the Fairfield sessions, it looks like his 'vocal coaching' was more along the lines of getting a decent air mix than actual vocal coaching as you or I understand it. (he's actually credited on the album as an engineer):

"So I got my mantra and began to record their vocals­ which is why they brought me there: to be another ear and put the vocals on tape the best they could sound... I coached their positioning to the mic until we got a good blend over the control-room monitors."

I'm thinking had he actually coached Brian one-on-one, he'd mention it.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Quite possibly, Leon.


Brian indeed was smoking again,up until 1994 (which partially explains his huge weight gain when he quit). As someone once told me, the famous story where Melinda almost hit him her car? He was going to have a smoke.

As for 1973-1975, that's one of the reasons why I'm so desperate to hear "California Feelin'" and "Lucy Jones". The former is apparently the last "classic Brian", and the latter apparently is "mid-period Brian". I will say this, though..if you've heard Brian's part of Johnny Rivers' version of "Help Me Rhonda"...Brian's voice had already changed by then.

I believe this is the track you're referring to, for all those wondering. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPToxd7h6hg

And indeed, it seems like Brian's falsetto was closer to the 15 Big Ones era than the Holland era by that part. It seems like a cross between the two, really.

Most definitely. Actually, to me it sounds WORSE. Compare it to the falsetto on, say, "In the still of the night". I seriously wonder if any pitch altering was done...

Also...have no idea why I called you by your last name instead of your first. My apologies bro.

[Menace Wilson]

Yeah, it's a weirdly pinched voice -- it's on a lot of the Paley tracks. I've chalked that up to Brian apparently starting to smoke again for a few years after Landy bowed out.

This may be what I refer to as his "Ozzy" voice.  See also "Fantasy Is Reality/Bells Of Madness".  It's a strangely brassy, shrill sort of sound that he'd never really had before. 

[phirnis]

BB88 is filled with shouty vocals. hurts the album.  randomly on "let it shine" he doesn't sound as bad tonally.

I actually don't mind a bit of his shouty voice here and there, but on BW88 it does indeed get tiring after a while, especially on side 2. On "Meet Me in My Dreams Tonight" he sounds awkward and nervous, which is too bad because I think it's a very good song.

[Custom Machine]

Well, there's an entire black era of Brian vocals, from 1973 to 15 Big Ones. What demos he had recorded are either locked in the vaults or lost. So basically we jump from Holland era straight to 15 Big Ones. That's the reason why you don't see a gradual decline. There's just a lack of released documents from the main period of vocal decline. As for how it happened.... Well, 5 packs of cigarettes and cocaine a day for about a year could ruin ANYONE's voice. It's a miracle he could still sing at all.

There's Brian's duet with Jan Berry on "Don't You Just Know It" from 1973.  Don't know if this is from early, mid, or late 1973, but it's available on the Jan & Dean Fun City CD, as well as iTunes, Amazon, and various other places on the web.  Brian doesn't sound hoarse yet, but his vocal sounds somewhat spoken and shouty and he sounds absolutely nothing like he did a few years earlier.  To me, it almost has a "confused" sound to it, as in "why am I singing this?"  

Others on this board may be able to offer more insight into this recording, as I only heard it for the first time a few months ago.  Had I heard this vocal from BW back in 1973, I would have been quite surprised and described it as "disturbing", but his singing voice here is very closely related to his spoken parts on Mt. Vernon and Fairway on Holland, which, back then, I also considered "disturbing" as well as close to unlistenable.  I think it's fair to characterize the singing on Don't You Just Know It and the spoken parts on Mount Vernon and Fairway as sounding like that of a person suffering from some form of mental illness.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Well, there's an entire black era of Brian vocals, from 1973 to 15 Big Ones. What demos he had recorded are either locked in the vaults or lost. So basically we jump from Holland era straight to 15 Big Ones. That's the reason why you don't see a gradual decline. There's just a lack of released documents from the main period of vocal decline. As for how it happened.... Well, 5 packs of cigarettes and cocaine a day for about a year could ruin ANYONE's voice. It's a miracle he could still sing at all.

There's Brian's duet with Jan Berry on "Don't You Just Know It" from 1973.  Don't know if this is from early, mid, or late 1973, but it's available on the Jan & Dean Fun City CD, as well as iTunes, Amazon, and various other places on the web.  Brian doesn't sound hoarse yet, but his vocal sounds somewhat spoken and shouty and he sounds absolutely nothing like he did a few years earlier.  To me, it almost has a "confused" sound to it, as in "why am I singing this?"  

Others on this board may be able to offer more insight into this recording, as I only heard it for the first time a few months ago.  Had I heard this vocal from BW back in 1973, I would have been quite surprised and described it as "disturbing", but his singing voice here is very closely related to his spoken parts on Mt. Vernon and Fairway on Holland, which, back then, I also considered "disturbing" as well as close to unlistenable.  I think it's fair to characterize the singing on Don't You Just Know It and the spoken parts on Mount Vernon and Fairway as sounding like that of a person suffering from some form of mental illness.

Brian's vocal was reportedly recorded back in 1970.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Yeah, I'd heard that too.  Completely caught me by surprise, as he sounded (to my ears anyway) like mid period Brian minus the rasp. Then again, he sounds like 15 BO Brian on "He Came Down" off of So Tough, but more like Sunflower-era Brian on his small part on "Funky Pretty"...and somewhere in between on Marcella.


Yea...the 1974 sessions really need to be circulated or something....driving me nuts

[summerinparadise.flac]

I never knew Brian was on He Come Down...

[BJL]

Another possible explanation for the "shoutyness" is that it was a way to hit notes.  Think about how narrow Dennis's range had gotten by the end of his life...he can't have had more than an octave.  I think Brian subjected his voice to similar abuse (minus the famous punch, I know), but insisted on hitting a wider range, which meant just pushing and pushing until a note came out...hence the shoutiness.  Although I also hear the change in phrasing someone mentioned.  I think Oh Lord is the best example of how soulful and really thoughtful and also spontaneous Brian's phrasing could be even when his voice was at its worst tonally, and by 85 thats all gone. 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I never knew Brian was on He Come Down...

Yup. Right after the "Yes I believe it" part, you'll hear a real low "EEEEeeee" part that for YEARS I thought was Dennis.

[Wylson]

To me he sounds absolutely fine on the Jan Berry song, pretty much exactly as he did on Sunflower, which would fit AGDs theory that it was recorded in 70. Just sounds like he doesn't really know the words or something.

[adamghost]

I posted about this a long time ago, but I can recall hearing two different versions of the Jan Berry duet, the finished version (which I think is cool) and a version with a less polished vocal from Brian (or perhaps it was just a single track, I really don't remember...my impression was it was a different take).  Point being, on the less polished version, it was really obvious Brian was having trouble crossing over into falsetto and hitting some of the high notes.  A lot of stabs at certain notes and squirrelly vocal transitions.  It sounded like he was really struggling, or at the very least had a bad cold or something.