BB Autograph Question

[Shane]

I thought I might share one of the more interesting finds I've made over the years, and maybe get some opinions on it.  About 10 years ago, a local junk dealer bought a stash of 45rpm records from a former DJ.  I went through them, and bought a stack from him for 50 cents each.  In the stack was a 1970s issue of the California Girls 45 which I almost passed on, because somebody apparently scribbled all over the label and sleeve.  It wasn't until I got home that I realized that the scribblings were the work of some familiar names: Carl, Dennis, Mike, and Al:




The label on the other side of the disc features yet another autograph from Mike, with the words "Beach Boys" underneath... I've seen other autographs from him signed this way.  Capitol used this label style from 1972-1978, which makes sense as far as Brian's absence from signing this.  There may (or may not) be the signature of some unknown person on the sleeve as well, in the 3 o'clock position.  Any thoughts?

[donald]

I think that is Carl at 3:00.  I have these signatures in my lp collection and at least some of these look authentic.......Al and Carl do.  Not sure of the others unless I go dig out the autographs.  If no one else here can recognize, I will do the comparison.

Who is at 1:00?

[Shane]

It's actually Carl at 1:00 on the sleeve, and it's rather legible if you see the autograph in person.  This makes me question who is at 3:00, right next to it.  It appears that it starts with a "C", but the rest is difficult to make out.

[acedecade75]

The signature at 3:00 looks like CArl's from the 1980's and 1990's.  It also appears that the record itself has signatures of Carl, Al, and Dennis.  It seems strange that there would be two signature of the same person from different time periods, but who know.  At least some of signatures look authentic.  It is a great find!

[donald]

Carl at 3;00


COULD THAT BE DENNIS AT 1:00?

[bgas]

The signature at 3:00 looks like CArl's from the 1980's and 1990's.  It also appears that the record itself has signatures of Carl, Al, and Dennis.  It seems strange that there would be two signature of the same person from different time periods, but who know.  At least some of signatures look authentic.  It is a great find!

No way to tell now, But what I was thinking:  the 45 and the sleeve were signed at different times, then put together later.

[Wirestone]

Dennis is at 6. Two Carls on sleeve, one Carl on record. Odd

[southbay]

That is certainly Carl at 3:00; the Jardine looks authentic as well, based on the picture. 

[Shane]

No way to tell now, But what I was thinking:  the 45 and the sleeve were signed at different times, then put together later.

You know, you've got me thinking.  Now that you mention it... does this sleeve and record even belong together?  They were together when I found this item, but isn't the purple print on the sleeve in line with the late 70s/early 80s purple Capitol label style?

[bgas]

No way to tell now, But what I was thinking:  the 45 and the sleeve were signed at different times, then put together later.

You know, you've got me thinking.  Now that you mention it... does this sleeve and record even belong together?  They were together when I found this item, but isn't the purple print on the sleeve in line with the late 70s/early 80s purple Capitol label style?

A good question for Smile-Holland or one of his prime sources on the starline page, methinks.

[Mikie]

It's fake!

[smile-holland]

No way to tell now, But what I was thinking:  the 45 and the sleeve were signed at different times, then put together later.

You know, you've got me thinking.  Now that you mention it... does this sleeve and record even belong together?  They were together when I found this item, but isn't the purple print on the sleeve in line with the late 70s/early 80s purple Capitol label style?

A good question for Smile-Holland or one of his prime sources on the starline page, methinks.

You're too kind, bgas   


http://www.beachboys45.nl/USA-other-Cap-OrangeGold-intro.htm
And when it comes to sleeves, this website is a great source: http://www.45-sleeves.com/


The Orange-Gold label was in use between 1972 and 1978. This particular one - with the subsidiary and All Rights Reserved notation on the outer ridge - was pressed between 1975 and 1978. The sleeve that goes with this release is the brown/red target sleeve (see below)



The cover that accompanies your autographed single though was pressed between 1978 and 1981 for Capitol releases on the purple label.

[Shane]

Thanks for the confirmation, Smile-Holland.  That is just what I was thinking.  So, it is possible that the sleeve and record were signed at separate times.

[Ron]

I'd say it's legitimate.  If it was fake, it'd make more sense... there'd be one of each.  Plus, if they were going to fake Al Jardine's signature, they would have first faked Brian Wilson's signature.  No slight to Al.  Also they would have made the signatures more legible.  

I'll bet every signature on it is legitimate.  Nice find.  

As for why it's signed twice, I'll bet whoever it was had a signed record with no sleeve, and then had another 45 with a sleeve that they had signed, and just put the two together for storage.  They likely signed the label because the record was presented to them with no sleeve.  When somebody handed them one with a sleeve, they signed the sleeve instead (easier to scribble on). 

[bgas]

I'd say it's legitimate.  If it was fake, it'd make more sense... there'd be one of each.  Plus, if they were going to fake Al Jardine's signature, they would have first faked Brian Wilson's signature.  No slight to Al.  Also they would have made the signatures more legible.  

I'll bet every signature on it is legitimate.  Nice find.  

As for why it's signed twice, I'll bet whoever it was had a signed record with no sleeve, and then had another 45 with a sleeve that they had signed, and just put the two together for storage.  They likely signed the label because the record was presented to them with no sleeve.  When somebody handed them one with a sleeve, they signed the sleeve instead (easier to scribble on). 

I vouch for the last: I had a copy of Child of Winter, in the plain Brother  sleeve, that I presented to Brian to sign; you guessed it, he signed the sleeve.
I should have only handed him the record, darn it!

[Mikie]

That's too bad. Brian signed my single of "Rock & Roll Music" on the record label.

By the way, the autographs above of Carl Wilson, Mike Love, and Al Jardine match mine pretty closely.

[Ron]

If Carl did sign the sleeve twice, that's easily explainable too.  Maybe they're sat at a table, signing a bunch of things, Carl passes the sleeve to Al, who passes to Mike, who passes to Dennis, who passes it back to Carl, etc. before whoever owned it grabbed it back off the table, or whatever.  Again if it was fake, nobody would have faked it like that. 

A guy I know is always into autographs, and he bumped into a guy at a flea market with something interesting about 2 weeks ago; a program from a show in the 50's, that Elvis Presley and the "Blue Moon Boys" or something similar had all signed, as well as Maybelle Carter!  He was asking me what I would guess it was worth, like I know anything.  I told him I would guess at least 5 grand, but who knows?  That sounds like something somebody would fake, but if it was fake, why would they add Maybelle Carter's signature?  Makes you wonder. 

[Ron]

BTW, the real question is : Where's Bruce? 

Makes perfect sense too that Mike signed the other side of the record, if it was in fact presented to them with no sleeve... maybe he signed last and there wasn't much room left so he just flipped it over and signed the other side.  Without the sleeve, you have 4 distinct signatures, and then on the sleeve you have 4 and an extra Carl.  Either signed at two different instances... or in the same 'line' or whatever, and the record that was originally in the sleeve was tossed since they didn't sign it.  Since the record and sleeve are from different time periods, that only means that it was signed after they were both released (of course), somebody probably just brought two old records with them.

What you DO know is that it was signed a long damn time ago to have Dennis' signature on it.  That's a really neat piece, I'd frame it if I were you.