Brian's improved voice on M.I.U. - mystery solved?

[BJL]

While we're on the subject of Holland's backing vocals, do we know who arranged them?  I've always thought steamboat had a very interesting vocal arrangement, which I assumed was Carl, but if Brian was there singing the falsetto might he have participated?  It seems he was often willing to lend a more active hand on Dennis's songs...  Do we know if he's in the mix on Trader, or was that pretty much all carl, because thats also a really cool vocal arrangement, I think.  I've always assumed he was the driving force behind funky pretty, but also that he wasn't really involved in anything else, but is that true?  Might he have had a hand in the california saga: california?  After all, he was there at least long enough to add the first line, might he have been guiding, or was it all carl at that point?  Finally, did Al participate in the california saga arrangements (do we know?)  and did Blondie and ricky help with the vocal arrangements and harmonies as arrangers?  I dunno, I think the process of that time period is really fascinating to me, because the whole band was involved and I'm always curious what exactly brian, carl's roles were, etc.  

Another question:  is Dennis's voice audible anywhere on Holland?  I know he flew off at some point, but I always thought it was odd he didn't sing either of his songs, since his voice was so great during that era (in my opinion).

Edit: person who asked where on Holland brian's falsetto is audible: listen really closely to Steamboat.  It sounds to me like there are places were it's just Brian by himself in the background doing his thing (over mike's bass bom bom boms).

[c-man]

How about "Sunshine" from KTSA?  The little parts (e.g. "When she squeeze me, how she please me" bits).  That's a great example of Brian singing in the late '70s with his fine late '60s-early '70s falsetto voice.

[Mikie]

So.................so far the reason "Matchpoint Of Our Love" sounds like Brian in his early 70's voice remains inconclusive. As it always did and probably always will.

[c-man]

So.................so far the reason "Matchpoint Of Our Love" sounds like Brian in his early 70's voice remains inconclusive. As it always did and probably always will.

I don't know, to me it just sounds like a really good late '70s Brian on that cut, not much different from "Wontcha Come Out Tonight".  But yes, Bob Rose the vocal coach could very well have had something to do with that.  Plus, no smoking and no dope.  And, of course............................TM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jon Stebbins]

 

Another question:  is Dennis's voice audible anywhere on Holland?  I know he flew off at some point, but I always thought it was odd he didn't sing either of his songs, since his voice was so great during that era (in my opinion).

Dennis's voice is clearly there on Steamboat...don't worry Mr. Fulton...also on Trader bv's... whoa

[summerinparadise.flac]

So.................so far the reason "Matchpoint Of Our Love" sounds like Brian in his early 70's voice remains inconclusive. As it always did and probably always will.

I don't know, to me it just sounds like a really good late '70s Brian on that cut, not much different from "Wontcha Come Out Tonight".  But yes, Bob Rose the vocal coach could very well have had something to do with that.  Plus, no smoking and no dope.  And, of course............................TM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A combination of not smoking, snorting, and vocal coaching is surely the reason behind Brian's voice on MIU. Its just suprising to hear such rapid deterioration (i.e. is 15 Big Ones/Love You voice), improvement (MIU), and then deteriorating again (L.A. and further).

[Mikie]

Well, I don't think the lack of smoking and coke with the addition of voice coaching helped Brian with the falsetto on "She's Got Rhythm." It's atrociaous. Bordering on embarassing.

[Mike's Beard]

 

Another question:  is Dennis's voice audible anywhere on Holland?  I know he flew off at some point, but I always thought it was odd he didn't sing either of his songs, since his voice was so great during that era (in my opinion).

Dennis's voice is clearly there on Steamboat...don't worry Mr. Fulton...also on Trader bv's... whoa

Jon any idea why Dennis gave his lead vocals over to Carl on his two Holland cuts? Such a shame because it was the last release where he still had his young sounding voice.

[Jim V.]

Well, I don't think the lack of smoking and coke with the addition of voice coaching helped Brian with the falsetto on "She's Got Rhythm." It's atrociaous. Bordering on embarassing.

I agree, that vocal is definitely not one of Brian's best. It's so shrill. Its not Brian-like, not Frankie Valli-like (I feel like I heard that somewhere), its just...bad. His vocals on "Kona Coast" and "Winds of Change" sound just like that to me. Except that they are not extended, therefore making them bearable, and possibly even good, in my opinion. He just didn't have it in him to do an extended falsetto in the late 70s.

How about "Sunshine" from KTSA?  The little parts (e.g. "When she squeeze me, how she please me" bits).  That's a great example of Brian singing in the late '70s with his fine late '60s-early '70s falsetto voice.

I don't quite see that c-man. That pretty much just sounds like typical late 70s Brian once again, except seemingly lower in the mix. I do seem to notice that on KTSA, Brian seems to be mixed pretty low, whereas Mike seems to really up-front. I know he was the front-man, but it seems on stuff like "Goin' On" and "When Girls Get Together" Mike seems to be way more predominate than he should be. Honestly, I can't even hear Brian on "WGGT". And trust me, I'd love to hear another clear voiced Brian lead. There is never enough. What should I listen for to make me hear Brian easier?

[Custom Machine]

Well, I don't think the lack of smoking and coke with the addition of voice coaching helped Brian with the falsetto on "She's Got Rhythm." It's atrociaous. Bordering on embarassing.

Gotta agree with Mike on this one, Brian's lead on She's Got Rhythm is totally unlistenable, imo.  (We've all heard of Sponge Worthy, well this one is Cringe Worthy.)  But on Matchpoint of Our Love and Wontcha Come Out Tonight Brian sounds fabulous, in fact incredibly good!  He could not have sounded better.  When I first listened to MIU and heard MPOOL and WCOT I remember thinking, wow, Brian sounds great, dramatically better than he did on Love You and 15 Big Ones.  

But maybe Craig has discovered the key ... in the AM and the PM ... Jai Guru Dev!  And I was gonna say I had no idea what Jai Guru Dev means, but I just Googled it and the answer is .......... Victory to the Greatness in you.  Hey -- sounds good to me.  Maybe this is the key to a successful BBs 50th anniv reunion.  Whew, it's time for me to meditate.  If I could only remember my mantra!

[c-man]

 

Another question:  is Dennis's voice audible anywhere on Holland?  I know he flew off at some point, but I always thought it was odd he didn't sing either of his songs, since his voice was so great during that era (in my opinion).

Dennis's voice is clearly there on Steamboat...don't worry Mr. Fulton...also on Trader bv's... whoa

Dennis is also singing the bass vocal on "Steamboat", according to Brad Elliott's book (and listening to it, I would agree).  Plus he sings the counterpoint harmony to Carl on the "Only With You" tag ("All I wanna do, oh / Is spend my life with you, ooh").

[Andrew G. Doe]

Well, I don't think the lack of smoking and coke with the addition of voice coaching helped Brian with the falsetto on "She's Got Rhythm." It's atrociaous. Bordering on embarassing.

Gotta agree with Mike on this one, Brian's lead on She's Got Rhythm is totally unlistenable, imo.  (We've all heard of Sponge Worthy, well this one is Cringe Worthy.)  But on Matchpoint of Our Love and Wontcha Come Out Tonight Brian sounds fabulous, in fact incredibly good!  He could not have sounded better.  When I first listened to MIU and heard MPOOL and WCOT I remember thinking, wow, Brian sounds great, dramatically better than he did on Love You and 15 Big Ones.  

I always thought, when folk back in 1978 were going "OMG !! Brian's still got his falsetto !!"...

1 - he's screeching...

2 - it was there nearly two years earlier and a lit better: try listening to 15 Big Ones, side 2, second to last track.

[Curtis Leon]

Well, I don't think the lack of smoking and coke with the addition of voice coaching helped Brian with the falsetto on "She's Got Rhythm." It's atrociaous. Bordering on embarassing.

Gotta agree with Mike on this one, Brian's lead on She's Got Rhythm is totally unlistenable, imo.  (We've all heard of Sponge Worthy, well this one is Cringe Worthy.)  But on Matchpoint of Our Love and Wontcha Come Out Tonight Brian sounds fabulous, in fact incredibly good!  He could not have sounded better.  When I first listened to MIU and heard MPOOL and WCOT I remember thinking, wow, Brian sounds great, dramatically better than he did on Love You and 15 Big Ones.  

I always thought, when folk back in 1978 were going "OMG !! Brian's still got his falsetto !!"...

1 - he's screeching...

2 - it was there nearly two years earlier and a lit better: try listening to 15 Big Ones, side 2, second to last track.

Really, if you listen, it's all over 15 Big Ones/Love You/Adult/Child. I think most people startle by it, because it was a falsetto lead, and not just in the harmonies.

And yes, it's horribly shrill. That's the main problem I have with his later falsetto - it sounds like he has to force it. Well, I suppose "Sherry She Needs Me" is a bit of an exception, but it's still vastly different than his earlier falsetto.

[Smilin Ed H]

I can't stand his vocal on She's Got Rhythm - hw whines and screeches.  Not helped by the fact the song's awful.

[Curtis Leon]

I can't stand his vocal on She's Got Rhythm - hw whines and screeches.  Not helped by the fact the song's awful.

I actually don't mind it that much. Mine main problem with M.I.U., is not the fact that they went retro again - I never had gripes with it during 1963. It's that you're always aware that they're a bunch of fat, 30 year old rockers, trying to desperately reach for the innocence of their youth. One of the reasons I like L.A. more.

EDIT: Well, aside from "My Diane" and maybe "Pitter Patter".

[The Heartical Don]

I can't stand his vocal on She's Got Rhythm - hw whines and screeches.  Not helped by the fact the song's awful.

Hmmm... I like the song itself a lot. It is very poorly executed and produced, it's not tight at all. It threatens to fall apart. And the vocals are debatable at best. However, try to hear it in your brain as a forceful, driving rocker, Spectorish, with hi-energy vocals (the Crystals? Or the BBs in their 'Today' era?)

I bet it would be gorgeous.

[Jon Stebbins]

Jon any idea why Dennis gave his lead vocals over to Carl on his two Holland cuts? Such a shame because it was the last release where he still had his young sounding voice.

I guess the answer would be that giving leads to Carl on DW songs was not unusual. Carl sang lead on Its About Time, San Miguel, and 4th of July prior to Holland. I think, like most of us, Dennis really dug Carl's voice.

[variable2]

okay here's why:

the secret is on Matchpoint (and on stuff like Busy Doin' Nothing) Brian is singing EXTREMELY quiet, and he is also double-tracked on Matchpoint.  double-tracking quiet singing is a good way to sound like you can actually sing because it masks some tuning and timbre roughness.

[Mike's Beard]

Jon any idea why Dennis gave his lead vocals over to Carl on his two Holland cuts? Such a shame because it was the last release where he still had his young sounding voice.

I guess the answer would be that giving leads to Carl on DW songs was not unusual. Carl sang lead on Its About Time, San Miguel, and 4th of July prior to Holland. I think, like most of us, Dennis really dug Carl's voice.

Thanks Jon. Do you know if there are any attempts from Dennis singing the lead on "Only with You" floating around out there? I think his POB outtake version is magnificent.

[summerinparadise.flac]

okay here's why:

the secret is on Matchpoint (and on stuff like Busy Doin' Nothing) Brian is singing EXTREMELY quiet, and he is also double-tracked on Matchpoint.  double-tracking quiet singing is a good way to sound like you can actually sing because it masks some tuning and timbre roughness.

Brian sings very softly at a point on Airplane and it does seem very sweet...Matchpoint-ish almost.

[adamghost]

okay here's why:

the secret is on Matchpoint (and on stuff like Busy Doin' Nothing) Brian is singing EXTREMELY quiet, and he is also double-tracked on Matchpoint.  double-tracking quiet singing is a good way to sound like you can actually sing because it masks some tuning and timbre roughness.

Right...and could it be that he was COACHED to do that?  (Per my original post)

[matt-zeus]

I really like the MIU album, and I love 'She's got rhythm' it's sort of wrong and right at the same time.

[Smilin Ed H]

"Hmmm... I like the song itself a lot. It is very poorly executed and produced, it's not tight at all. It threatens to fall apart. And the vocals are debatable at best. However, try to hear it in your brain as a forceful, driving rocker, Spectorish, with hi-energy vocals (the Crystals? Or the BBs in their 'Today' era?)"

They should've moved on from there.  I hate most of the album, much more than 15 BO, but I love My Diane and Pitter Patter and I don't mind Winds of Change - at least it has some ambition and I like the tag, despite Al's vocals, which have to be his worst. I don't mind Woncha Come Out Tonight.  The covers should've stayed on 15 BO. The rest, I skip.

[37!ws]

I know I'm late on this thread, but here's my explanation for Brian's "sweeter" vocals on "Matchpoint Of Our Love"  (wow, did it hurt to type that title...) and, for that matter, "Won'tcha Come Out Tonight:"

They have a pretty low vocal range, so of course Brian's not going to sound bad.

[b00ts]

I can't stand his vocal on She's Got Rhythm - hw whines and screeches.  Not helped by the fact the song's awful.

Hmmm... I like the song itself a lot. It is very poorly executed and produced, it's not tight at all. It threatens to fall apart. And the vocals are debatable at best. However, try to hear it in your brain as a forceful, driving rocker, Spectorish, with hi-energy vocals (the Crystals? Or the BBs in their 'Today' era?)

I bet it would be gorgeous.

You just inspired me to give the song a re-listen. I notice that Mike's vocal sounds incredibly unenthusiastic and phoned-in; Brian's vocal is, to my ears, his quintessential late 70's falsetto.

I can envision this track as you say - a spectorish rocker - and it would definitely be more interesting. Perhaps the reason it seems to be falling apart is, in part, because of Mike's lackluster vocal? With all the opinions out there about Mike, I've never heard him accused of sounding apathetic .. this is the first time that he's sounded to me like he is falling asleep at the microphone. I'm surprised he let this vocal take onto the album!