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Author Topic: How Much Did Brian...  (Read 14633 times)
The Heartical Don
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« on: August 18, 2010, 05:13:36 AM »

...smoke over the years? Is it really true that it was a '4 pack a day' habit (ascribed to messrs. Doe and Tobler)? If that's 80 fags, each burning for 10 minutes, that makes for 13 hrs. It's a day job! Really?  Shocked
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Runaways
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« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2010, 08:39:51 AM »

gotta be something like that.   just hearing the state of his voice back then
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Day Tripper
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2010, 08:51:46 AM »

I'm curious how much marijuana he used to smoke.  I remember that Rolling Stone article back during the Landy years where he said he took the occasional drag.  I wonder if even today he smokes a little pot, but doesn't make it public because he has young kids.  It's funny though, in the Beautiful Dreamer film, he doesn't denounce it at all and even has a smile on his face when describing some of the effects. 
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Mikie
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2010, 09:06:28 AM »

Yes, he smoked a helluva lot, both cigarettes and dope. And shovel fulls of coke (not the drink). Heroin didn't do anything for him. Undeluted acid took away some brain cells.

I witnessed some of it first hand in the mid-70's. I'm gladder than hell he isn't into it anymore.

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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
Mike's Beard
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2010, 10:32:33 AM »

I know this has been debated heatedly in the past but does anybody really believe much of Brian's mental health deterioration was NOT caused through drug taking? I'm of the opinion it was probably ingrained within him from the day he was born that he would suffer mental health problems as it did run in his family but I also strongly feel that his LSD experimentation would be like pouring gasoline on an already burning flame.

 If you are the kind of person who is self conscious and inscure about themselves than acid is THE LAST thing in the world you want to be messin' with.
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nobody is a chode
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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2010, 10:37:44 AM »

I'm curious how much marijuana he used to smoke.  I remember that Rolling Stone article back during the Landy years where he said he took the occasional drag.  I wonder if even today he smokes a little pot, but doesn't make it public because he has young kids.  It's funny though, in the Beautiful Dreamer film, he doesn't denounce it at all and even has a smile on his face when describing some of the effects.  

Someone said that they saw Brian looking "pretty relaxed" somewhere recently (last few years maybe) and specifically mentioned a joint as a possible explanation for it. Seems unlikely to me, especially if it was a show. I can't imagine anyone in Brian's band enjoying a smoke before a show. Jeff would come down like hell on them with the gospel.

I know this has been debated heatedly in the past but does anybody really believe much of Brian's mental health deterioration was NOT caused through drug taking? I'm of the opinion it was probably ingrained within him from the day he was born that he would suffer mental health problems as it did run in his family but I also strongly feel that his LSD experimentation would be like pouring gasoline on an already burning flame.

 If you are the kind of person who is self conscious and inscure about themselves than acid is THE LAST thing in the world you want to be messin' with.

In my experience these things seem to go hand in hand. I don't feel that any drug has done anything permanent to my brain or body unless it's entirely unnoticeable. My brain seems to return to the same exact way it's been functioning my entire life. I could be in the most f***ed up state and yet, once the drug wears off, and I get some rest, drink lots of water and so on... everything settles again. But I feel that with continued drug use, certain underlying qualities certainly start bubbling up. I guess it just pushes you in whatever direction you're already leaning. I've said a lot about Brian and drugs and I do suspect that his psychedelic use probably did him more good than harm - which can be gleamed from his attitude towards them. He's always been pro-psychedelics even while saying they f***ed him up. Brian is turned on, he speaks like he's turned on, he's pro-psychedelics. Besides, "brain damage" is a bit ambiguous. Didn't Brian write California Girls on acid? Sounds like some brain damage can be quite useful to human beings once in a while...
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 10:44:19 AM by So cold i go burr » Logged
Wirestone
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« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2010, 10:48:22 AM »

Coke perhaps did lasting damage to his voice (deviated septum, etc). And the smokes didn't help.

Most other drugs were self-medicating or used for "creative" purposes (he loves his uppers).

The real damage was done by prescription anti-psychotics in the late 80s and early 90s.
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bossaroo
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« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2010, 11:23:51 AM »

some claim Brian was never the same after being treated with Thorazine... that was like '69 or '70.

and what about electro-shock therapy? did he get any of that wonder drug?  Undecided
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Mikie
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« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2010, 12:12:05 PM »

Thorazine is an elephant tranquilizer!  I never heard or read that he did that. But he was still pretty messed up even in 1969. The story of Phil Volk of the Raiders witnessing Brian by himself outside a concert venue climbing up a hill and slip sliding away over and over and just acting and saying things crazy. Marilyn was there and came out to console him.

I still can't figure out why they didn't seek ongoing professional help for him, even in the late 60's. Then finally Marilyn started doing something about it in late '75- early '76.

I read recently where Brian may have exhibited signs of depression even back in high school.

Depression. Tardive Schizophrenia. It's not a good thing.
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
Mark H.
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« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2010, 12:54:41 PM »

Quote me some studies on "permanent" damage done by anti-psychotics?  Other than tardive dyskinesia I can't come up with any evidence.  As a physician I've been working with or around these medications for years.  Most of the issues are organic mental illness, an abusive childhood, and illicit drug use.  I think he has schizoaffective disorder, ie. depression with psychotic features.
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nobody is a chode
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« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2010, 01:03:59 PM »

Quote
I read recently where Brian may have exhibited signs of depression even back in high school.

Oh wow, a depressed teenager!  Roll Eyes
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Wirestone
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« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2010, 01:07:00 PM »

Quote
I think he has schizoaffective disorder, ie. depression with psychotic features.

I believe that is the official diagnosis, yes. And that depression apparently has some bipolar-ish features.

Quote
Quote me some studies on "permanent" damage done by anti-psychotics?  Other than tardive dyskinesia I can't come up with any evidence.  As a physician I've been working with or around these medications for years.

Well, what if the doses are super-sized and combined with other medications he shouldn't have been given? I don't think studies would be conducted on outright misuse of meds, and that was partly what was happening with Brian toward the end of the Landy years.

I suppose, alternately, that the somewhat downbeat demeanor we've seen from Brian since Landy left has been due to the use of some sort of mild sedative given to him before an interview or other stressful situations, rather than any permanent damage.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 01:07:55 PM by Wirestone » Logged
donald
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« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2010, 01:10:47 PM »

Brian has said he used a lot of alcohol for a period of time.  That and stimulants..coke and amphetamines, go hand in hand with a lot of  cigarette smoking.  Even some pot smokers follow a smoke with tobacco....double trouble to the throat and lungs.  He is in amazingly good voice these days given his past.
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« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2010, 01:26:39 PM »

I think his drug of choice during '66-'67 was hash. Anybody that already has emotional/depression issues and does a healthy amount of any kind of drug is more than likely going to suffer some consequences. The guy thought a movie was made specifically to screw with him. That isn't healthy behavior.
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2010, 03:25:57 PM »

some claim Brian was never the same after being treated with Thorazine... that was like '69 or '70.

Landy was dosing him with Thorazine by the bike pump full 1982-91, with a light frosting of uppers when he had to 'perform' for the media. That's mostly why Brian is how he is today, and the break from Landy came just in time - another four, five years and he really would have been a drooling vegetable.
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nobody is a chode
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« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2010, 03:30:55 PM »

Brian has said he used a lot of alcohol for a period of time.  That and stimulants..coke and amphetamines, go hand in hand with a lot of  cigarette smoking.  Even some pot smokers follow a smoke with tobacco....double trouble to the throat and lungs.  He is in amazingly good voice these days given his past.

mmmm american spirit perique blend tobacco following a smoking session......
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Peter Ames Carlin
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« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2010, 04:07:04 PM »

I really and truly believe that when it comes to pot, hash and even LSD -- which Brian did maybe a small handful of times, according to everyone I talked to who knew him back in those days -- you just don't see any longterm psychological effects, bad, good or otherwise. To the extent that Brian boozed it up, snorted mountains of coke, smoked endless cigs, etc., what we're really talking about is a guy with profound, but untreated emotional problems. Give the guy access to rational psychiatric help and there ends his need to self-medicate.

And why didn't Marilyn, et. al get him that kind of sustained treatment in the '70s? Maybe because they didn't want to admit to themselves that their resident genius had gone off the deep end? Or maybe because it's so hard for any family to admit that about one of its members? Particularly when they all come from hard-working, blue-collar, up-by-the-bootstraps kind of perspective? I'm sure that no one in the Hawthorne of the '50s would admit to seeing a psychologist to deal with their problems. Are you kidding? Just kick ass! Don't back down from that wave! Kick ass! KICK ASS!
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nobody is a chode
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« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2010, 04:24:20 PM »

I really and truly believe that when it comes to pot, hash and even LSD -- which Brian did maybe a small handful of times, according to everyone I talked to who knew him back in those days -- you just don't see any longterm psychological effects, bad, good or otherwise.

I keep seeing this "small handful of times" type of dismissal of Brian's use of psychedelics and stuff like pot, but it seems to me that he used them more than a "small handful of times". Obviously I wasn't there / haven't spoken to anyone who was there / but it seems more likely to me that Brian Wilson, hip guy in the scene, could get whatever drugs he wanted, as often as he wanted, and I simply cannot imagine Brian regulating his use during those times.

To me, "a small handful of times" suggests like... dabbling a few times, never getting into it much. But isn't this Brian with the tent in his living room where Marilyn blew smoke into? Off the top of my head I count way more than three times that Brian used LSD, just based on stories like the one about their Lei'd in Hawaii performance.

What I think really happened is that Brian had a few really stand out trips on acid, and those are the only ones he speaks about, much like anyone who has used these substances often - you speak about the really good times or the really bad times, never the in between.
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Wirestone
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« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2010, 04:35:56 PM »

I believe PAC is referring specifically to LSD when he said "a small handful of times."

And in multiple interviews with folks from the time, that seems to be true. Maybe as little as once.

On the other hand, there was a lot of pot around, and he used uppers all the time.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 04:38:50 PM by Wirestone » Logged
Mikie
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« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2010, 04:39:50 PM »

So Brian started smoking pot around 1965, right? And Marilyn and Murry knew about it. And then right around that time he was given acid from Lauren Scwartz. I've read one excuse........uh, reason why Marilyn, the closest one to him, didn't seek help was because she was so young. That she didn't know any better. Around 17 or 18 Marilyn was at the time, right? What about the rest of the family, especially when the Surf's Up album was being recorded and Brian stayed upstairs in his room most of the time in the same house! Then right after Murry died in '73 he went to bed for a couple of years! What the hell took so long for family and friends admit there was something wrong?? That ain't normal! The reclusiveness was so severe that Landy had to coax him outta his dark bedroom closet with what, an hour's worth of conversation first?

Circa 1966 - "Denny, you got any hash joints?"
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2010, 04:49:51 PM »

While it's true LSD didn't cause his mental condition, it did act as a catalyst. A trigger for these sorts of mental illnesses can be an extreme emotional experience. A death in the family could set it off for example.

However, schizoaffective disorder can be managed quite well with medication. The person is given an anti-psychotic and an anti-depressant (the anti-depressant is needed to control the former, as it can exacerbate suicidal tendencies by itself). I have a friend with the same condition. you wouldn't be able to tell anything is wrong with him. The delusions and paranoia are controlled very well.

What we see in Brian today is mainly the result of Landy's abuse, as Andrew pointed out.
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Mikie
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« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2010, 05:11:55 PM »

Does Brian still hear the devil talking to him and does he still see him in the showerhead?

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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
nobody is a chode
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« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2010, 05:20:27 PM »

I believe PAC is referring specifically to LSD when he said "a small handful of times."

And in multiple interviews with folks from the time, that seems to be true. Maybe as little as once.

On the other hand, there was a lot of pot around, and he used uppers all the time.

I can shoot you down with that "only once" acid thing right now.

1. "Are you feeling the acid yet?"

2. Tripping in Hawaii

3. California Girls

4. On the beach figures out how Good Vibrations should go

5. Fire meltdown trip

Those are five separate LSD trips that I count and there are probably countless others if one reads inbetween the lines. If Brian's giving the guys acid at the STUDIO, how much is he using in the privacy of his home and with friends? It's worth considering. Sure you could say he gave them acid to capture a true spiritual feeling in Our Prayer. You could also say he was just so into acid like many people that he was using it frequently and getting the band on it too.

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Myk Luhv
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« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2010, 05:29:41 PM »

I think it is also important to keep in mind that mental illness was more stigmatised in the '60s and '70s than it is today (and don't get me wrong, it definitely still is but it has at least improved since those points). Brian Wilson obviously had schizophrenia and depression, and perhaps everyone knew that something was wrong with Brian but pretended otherwise for whatever reason. Maybe his drug use was acceptable to them because it helped keep his illnesses under control for a time and they could think he was "normal". Ostensibly he knew himself that something was wrong with him but, similarly, it was uncouth at the time to admit such things and certainly unheard of when you're a public figure as famous as Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys. I think the social milieu of the time period(s) that Brian Wilson had his illnesses and could have treated them before he became significantly worse dovetails with his drug use and to curb the former, I suggest, may have lessened his great need for the latter.
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nobody is a chode
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« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2010, 05:37:16 PM »

One significant reason why families tend to ignore members with mental problems is because treatment often includes themselves - the families are often very much a part of the problem and obviously Murry etc was for Brian. Helping Brian way back then may have meant a large scale intervention sort of thing where everyone comes together to work it all out. It's difficult. Everyone is innocent. It's always someone else's fault. No one wants to admit their mistakes. Just let it be, maybe he'll be ok... that seems to have been the prevalent attitude.
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