TLOS Sound Quality

[The Heartical Don]

...I played it yesterday, and it hurt my ears, even at a low level. Am I talking 'brickwalled', or 'strangely mastered', or 'wrong pressing' here? Was there ever a thread devoted to the matter? I seemed to detected a lot of apparent distortion. What are the available alternatives?

Tks in advance.

[Ron]

That sucks man.  You've trained your ears to the point where you can't listen to normal music anymore.  Sucks to be you!  I would hate that! I listen to that CD (did yesterday!) and it sounds great. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

...I played it yesterday, and it hurt my ears, even at a low level. Am I talking 'brickwalled', or 'strangely mastered', or 'wrong pressing' here? Was there ever a thread devoted to the matter? I seemed to detected a lot of apparent distortion. What are the available alternatives?

Tks in advance.

I got the UK pressing on the day of release - unlistenable. I mean... unlistenable.

I got the US pressing a few weeks later - no problems. In the interim, partly in desperation I guess, I'd ripped my UK pressing to my iPod, where it suddenly became listenable. So, my only conclusion is that someone mistakenly sent the download master to the UK instead of the CD master.

And yes, it's hot mastered/brickwalled to the max.

[The Heartical Don]

...I played it yesterday, and it hurt my ears, even at a low level. Am I talking 'brickwalled', or 'strangely mastered', or 'wrong pressing' here? Was there ever a thread devoted to the matter? I seemed to detected a lot of apparent distortion. What are the available alternatives?

Tks in advance.

I got the UK pressing on the day of release - unlistenable. I mean... unlistenable.

I got the US pressing a few weeks later - no problems. In the interim, partly in desperation I guess, I'd ripped my UK pressing to my iPod, where it suddenly became listenable. So, my only conclusion is that someone mistakenly sent the download master to the UK instead of the CD master.

And yes, it's hot mastered/brickwalled to the max.

Cheers Andrew. I have a strong hunch that we heard the same type of problem. And thanks for the hint - I will seek out a US version sometime. Because the music itself is great. There's all this detail, the fleeting thoughts on a warm afternoon, summery haze, the nice fragmented structure of some songs, well, that's my 2 cents anyway.

[The Heartical Don]

That sucks man.  You've trained your ears to the point where you can't listen to normal music anymore.  Sucks to be you!  I would hate that! I listen to that CD (did yesterday!) and it sounds great. 

That's what I tell women: it sucks to be me. Is that why I am unmarried?

[?]

The vinyl pressing of TLOS is considerably better than the US cd for what it's worth.

[nobody is a chode]

The vinyl pressing of TLOS is considerably better than the US cd for what it's worth.

Do you have the ability and time to make a vinyl rip? I'd be very interested in hearing that, as I would any other Beach Boys/BW vinyl rips anyone would care to share with this fanboy.

[The Heartical Don]

The vinyl pressing of TLOS is considerably better than the US cd for what it's worth.

Do you have the ability and time to make a vinyl rip? I'd be very interested in hearing that, as I would any other Beach Boys/BW vinyl rips anyone would care to share with this fanboy.

You'll have to wait some time, but I can surely rip some goodies for you eventually.

[absinthe_boy]

We discussed this back when TLOS came out.

You might recall I posted images of the waveform for two tracks (MAD and GH) from a ripped CD and sampled vinyl LP. The CD exhibited a certain amount of what they call "brickwalling" whereas the vinyl had none.

It is a *very* poorly mastered CD...at least the European version. The vinyl is acceptable but even that sucks for something which states it is "produced by Brian Wilson"

[Myk Luhv]

Producing is not the same as mastering.

[?]

Producing is not the same as mastering.

No it's not, but his assessment of the record is correct.  The vinyl is the best, but it's the best of a bad bunch.  Unlike BWPS, which is stunning on vinyl, TLOS is just ok.  It's rather unfortunate that "just ok" happens to be the best option out there.

Sorry So cold, but although my system is great my soundcard is decidedly not.  One of these days I plan on getting a nice one to do some 24/96 rips of my collection.

[Myk Luhv]

Yeah, but it's not Brian's fault it sounds like sh*t. He doesn't master his own albums and ostensibly doesn't care to know how to do this either.

[rogerlancelot]

Yeah, but it's not Brian's fault it sounds like merda. He doesn't master his own albums and ostensibly doesn't care to know how to do this either.

IT BURNS!!!
 

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[nobody is a chode]

Yeah, but it's not Brian's fault it sounds like merda. He doesn't master his own albums and ostensibly doesn't care to know how to do this either.

I wonder whether Brian even knows what his records sound like these days. The guy has one ear and his records are mixed in stereo. That alone speaks volumes. Block off one ear entirely and try to mix accurately in stereo.

What I want to know is - does Brian make a mono mix for himself? I would LOVE to get my hands on something like that. I believe that Brian was masterful at mixing in mono and it's a damn shame that he hasn't bothered with it for years.

[absinthe_boy]

Brian has said that he moves from one speaker to the other to get an idea of what it sounds like in stereo.

How much producing Brian actually did on TLOS is....debatable... Nothing about the way it sounds gives me the impression that he was interested after he'd laid down the tracks. Which is a shame as the music is *great* and the album really comes together as a whole. It just sounds like the aural equivalent of a bad hangover.

I agree that the CD is totally unlistenable. The vinyl is just about OK and the waveforms I posted back in 2008 to this very board prove beyond doubt that they went through different mastering processes.

SMiLE on the other hand is sublime on vinyl (the US pressing, the European was substandard). The CD even sounds pretty good.

I'm curious about the processing used on Brian's voice. Its rather minimal compared to most 'pop' records but there's something going on which I can't quite fathom.

[Curtis Leon]

Brian has said that he moves from one speaker to the other to get an idea of what it sounds like in stereo.

How much producing Brian actually did on TLOS is....debatable... Nothing about the way it sounds gives me the impression that he was interested after he'd laid down the tracks. Which is a shame as the music is *great* and the album really comes together as a whole. It just sounds like the aural equivalent of a bad hangover.

I agree that the CD is totally unlistenable. The vinyl is just about OK and the waveforms I posted back in 2008 to this very board prove beyond doubt that they went through different mastering processes.

SMiLE on the other hand is sublime on vinyl (the US pressing, the European was substandard). The CD even sounds pretty good.

I'm curious about the processing used on Brian's voice. Its rather minimal compared to most 'pop' records but there's something going on which I can't quite fathom.

Man, I'd love to get my hands on a vinyl copy of SMiLE or TLOS. Gerswhin too. No record player, unfortunately... And I can't find any vinyl rips of any of the albums, either.

[Ron]

I'm just glad i'm ignorant enough to think my version of the CD sounds fantastic. 

[nobody is a chode]

I'm just glad i'm ignorant enough to think my version of the CD sounds fantastic. 

You're a snooty little fellow aren't you? It's just down to how each person hears the sound, man. To some people, it sounds fucking harsh and ugly and when it's turned loud it's uncomfortable to listen to.

[Ron]

What's snooty mean? 

I'm just saying, i'm not musically talented enough to hear anything wrong with the album.  IGORANCE IS BLISS, you know the saying.  The album sounds spectacular to me. 

[absinthe_boy]

Much of the reason why TLOS sounds horrible on CD is because of the compression used. Put simply, the 'quiet' bits are almost as loud as the 'loud' bits.

Take the CD and the vinyl of the same song and you find greater dynamic range on the vinyl.

The CD and vinyl both suffer from an engineer who thought the top end frequencies should be shoved at us with great force.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Much of the reason why TLOS sounds horrible on CD is because of the compression used. Put simply, the 'quiet' bits are almost as loud as the 'loud' bits.

Take the CD and the vinyl of the same song and you find greater dynamic range on the vinyl.

The CD and vinyl both suffer from an engineer who thought the top end frequencies should be shoved at us with great force.

Mastering engineer.

[absinthe_boy]

The above image represents the ripped CD (top) and vinyl recorded using 96KHz sampling at 16 bits from a good quality turntable (ie not a USB thingymagig). The track is Midnight's Another Day.

Note how the two loudest sections on the CD exhibit clipping...the music should soar to a crescendo as Brian sings "All the people, make me feel so alone" and the cymbals come in. The CD just distorts whereas the vinyl still retains a valid waveform....no flat edges whatsoever. Note how the difference between the softest and loudest sections on the CD is LESS than the vinyl.

Note also that I 'normalised' the recorded track from the LP....ie it's been altered so the loudest moments are 0dB the same as the CD. So its not simply that I set the recording levels low or any trickery.



This second image represents Going Home....again ripped CD on the top with the LP below. The CD is practically brickwalled, no dynamic range at all. On the rocking section the edges are almost flat, up against the 0dB limit allowing no change in intensity and crucially allowing the moving parts in your ear no rest - THAT is why so much modern music actually hurts to listen to. That is why many people find the CD of TLOS painful....plane to see in blue and white.

Now look at the vinyl. Same song, but clearly a totally different mastering process. Again normalised to 0dB so the loudest part is just as 'loud' or intense as with the CD. But there's so much more going on, no brickwalling, a far greater difference between the rocking section and "at 25 I turned out the light".

The vinyl is going to be more pleasant to listen to, and its going to stirr more emotions because the music (to some extent) swoops and soars. It has quiet parts and loud parts, it expands and contracts. Its not like recording using an old cassette deck with the auto levels switched on (shudder).

Hopefully this reminder clears up a few questions about TLOS on CD and vinyl. And to be honest even the vinyl is not great.

SMiLE is another matter entirely. It is a beautiful recording.

[absinthe_boy]

Much of the reason why TLOS sounds horrible on CD is because of the compression used. Put simply, the 'quiet' bits are almost as loud as the 'loud' bits.

Take the CD and the vinyl of the same song and you find greater dynamic range on the vinyl.

The CD and vinyl both suffer from an engineer who thought the top end frequencies should be shoved at us with great force.

Mastering engineer.

Absolutely right.

[Sam_BFC]

SMiLE is another matter entirely. It is a beautiful recording.

How does the CD and vinyl compare here?

Also any chance you could indulge me with a little parental mocking in order to demonstrate to me how one or two ripped vinyl TLOS tracks may sound compared to CD?

I have no vinyl facilities unfortunately.

Cheers

[?]

How does the CD and vinyl compare here?

Night and day.  I think the BWPS cd sounds much better than TLOS, but the vinyl is just incredible.  It's that good.