THE BEACH BOYS EYING UP TO FIVE FREE GLOBAL REUNION SHOWS

[The Shift]

Truly, the death of a sibling is a momentous thing for someone to overcome. ...

To you and I, this is a band. To Brian, this was his family, and he probably never expected to outlive his entire immediate family, especially Carl. He needs to mourn/cope in his own way, even all these years later. He should not need to explain to anyone why he can't come to terms with their deaths in the most public arena imaginable (a literal arena, in fact!)

Nice post. Carl and Dennis died young. Plenty of fans find that hard to stomach, let alone Brian, the sole survivor of his own first immediate family.  We shouldn't assume to second guess anything and such a situation can't be the same for any two people.

[drbeachboy]

So, just to be clear on this: When The Reunion tour comes to the east coast, in deference to Brian, I will rewrite the history of the band, my history, inside my brain, that Dennis & Carl were never Beach Boys. Got it!

[The Shift]

So, just to be clear on this: When The Reunion tour comes to the east coast, in deference to Brian, I will rewrite the history of the band, my history, inside my brain, that Dennis & Carl were never Beach Boys. Got it!

Uuuh?

[b00ts]

So, just to be clear on this: When The Reunion tour comes to the east coast, in deference to Brian, I will rewrite the history of the band, my history, inside my brain, that Dennis & Carl were never Beach Boys. Got it!

I thought you were done posting about this. Maybe you can be the one to give Brian lessons in "speed-coping" so by the time they get to the east coast, he can put aside his neuroses and publicly cope with his brothers' deaths on stage for one very entitled fan.

[drbeachboy]

Have you followed what we are talking about? I suggested that video be used for Carl & Dennis segments in the show. AGD said Brian would have issues with that, because he can't deal with the deaths of Dennis & Carl. And so, the rest has been about Brian, and handling death. This Reunion Tour is about the band, not just Brian. Dennis and Carl were very important members and should be honored at those shows accordingly. For me, a passing mention of them is just not gonna cut it.  They need to do a little video tribute to each. If Brian has issues looking at video or hearing their voices, he needs to buck up and face the fact that they are deceased. We are into decades now. Dennis close to 3, and Carl surpassing one. We all have to deal with death in our families. It is the way of life itself. I live with grief, we all do, but we learn to deal with it and we go on living our lives. That is the healthy way to go and live. For me, I love seeing pictures and home movies. They show me how happy my life has been by having them all as a part of my life experience. My last post is in reference to how most here think Brian's feelings are the only important ones to consider. If he hasn't come to terms with their deaths, then we as fans should just see things through his eyes. This reunion will be as much for the fans as it is for the band members. As a fan of "The Beach Boys", I want Dennis & Carl represented honorably during these shows.

[drbeachboy]

So, just to be clear on this: When The Reunion tour comes to the east coast, in deference to Brian, I will rewrite the history of the band, my history, inside my brain, that Dennis & Carl were never Beach Boys. Got it!

I thought you were done posting about this. Maybe you can be the one to give Brian lessons in "speed-coping" so by the time they get to the east coast, he can put aside his neuroses and publicly cope with his brothers' deaths on stage for one very entitled fan.

If you think 3 decades and one decade is not sufficient time, then it will be more than "speed-coping".

Edit: A question mark was used in response to my post. I'm not ignorant, I will answer to clarify.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Also, I see no difference between using Carl's vocal in the studio and using a video in a concert.

Wasn't Brian's choice to have "Soul Searchin'" on that album. Well-known, well publicised fact.

[Andrew G. Doe]

If Brian has issues looking at video or hearing their voices, he needs to buck up and face the fact that they are deceased.

Ah, I see you're one of the "pull yourself together and stop snivelling" brigade. I've had my share (and my fill) of them and I'm sure Brian has too. My father died fifteen years ago, and it's still hard for me to look at photos of him. There are whole areas of my life I don't like being reminded of, yet according to the "pull-yourself-together" fraternity, I should confront the very things that sent me screaming into the woods in the first place. Considerate.

For me, I love seeing pictures and home movies. They show me how happy my life has been by having them all as a part of my life experience.

Bully for you. However, your name isn't Brian Douglas Wilson. We may all be the same basic shape, but we're all wired differently.

Brian might manage one gig with such a video sequence... five would be pushing it. A question - why do you think he doesn't do "Forever" live any more ?

[drbeachboy]

Andrew, I understand all of what your saying. I really do. No wonder Brian has been so debilitated for most of his adult life. So, in your opinion how does the band go about honoring Dennis and Carl? You can't pretend they didn't exist, can you? There has be some happy medium to deal with this issue, isn't there? It's really not fair to the memories of both, because Brian hasn't yet come to grips with it all, is it? I know Brian is an important piece in this reunion tour, but come on, now! This reunion tour can't be just all about Brian, can it?

[b00ts]

So, just to be clear on this: When The Reunion tour comes to the east coast, in deference to Brian, I will rewrite the history of the band, my history, inside my brain, that Dennis & Carl were never Beach Boys. Got it!

I thought you were done posting about this. Maybe you can be the one to give Brian lessons in "speed-coping" so by the time they get to the east coast, he can put aside his neuroses and publicly cope with his brothers' deaths on stage for one very entitled fan.

If you think 3 decades and one decade is not sufficient time, then it will be more than "speed-coping".

Edit: A question mark was used in response to my post. I'm not ignorant, I will answer to clarify.

Dr. Beach Boy, I owe you an apology. I just checked with the NACS (North American Coping Society) and apparently you are right - the amount of time since Carl and Dennis have died has been way too long for Brian not to be able to publicly cope with it. NACS personnel are on their way to Brian's house right now to force him to cope with his brothers' deaths after all this time, in public and in concert.

I attached a copy of your wonderful suggestion to look though scrapbooks. Undoubtedly this will be the balm that allows Brian, after all this time, to cope with his brothers' deaths - all so you can get the video montage you so desperately crave.

Scrapbooks, bootstraps and simple minds to the rescue! Now we will all be able to see a mawkish showbiz hollywood 'tribute' to Carl and Dennis, and Brian can enjoy having his brothers' memories exploited for a buck!

[drbeachboy]

You are a cocky f**ker, aren't you? So, you will go see The Beach Boys 50th Reunion Tour and you will happy that Dennis' and Carl's contributions go unsaid, because of Brian? So sad!

[Andrew G. Doe]

Andrew, I understand all of what your saying. I really do. No wonder Brian has been so debilitated for most of his adult life. So, in your opinion how does the band go about honoring Dennis and Carl? You can't pretend they didn't exist, can you? There has be some happy medium to deal with this issue, isn't there? It's really not fair to the memories of both, because Brian hasn't yet come to grips with it all, is it? I know Brian is an important piece in this reunion tour, but come on, now! This reunion tour can't be just all about Brian, can it?

Maybe it's not so prevalent now, but certainly up until say 2004, one refrain rang regularly throughout Brian's solo career:

"Well, I didn't want to do it, but my wife and managers talked me into it".

I dunno - maybe he'll do it just out of respect for his brothers (of course, we're assuming there will be any such 'tribute' - I rather doubt it). It's Brian Wilson we're talking about here. Logic seldom applies.

[b00ts]

You are a cocky f**ker, aren't you? So, you will go see The Beach Boys 50th Reunion Tour and you will happy that Dennis' and Carl's contributions go unsaid, because of Brian? So sad!

No, I won't be happy if Dennis and Carl's contributions go "unsaid." However, the fact that they were Brian's brothers seems to me to be more important than the fact that I am a Beach Boys fan. In fact, I would say that it gives Brian carte blanche to do whatever he is most comfortable with.

Also, to look at it pragmatically, if the choice is a full reunion with Brian at all versus a Beach Boys reunion without Brian because they are going to show a tribute to Dennis and Carl.. I would choose a reunion with Brian. After all, life is for the living!

It seems to me that you are the cocky one, presuming that Brian could be forced to publicly reckon and cope with the deaths of his brothers, when as AGD pointed out, he had to drop "Forever" from his setlist because he couldn't deal with the emotions it brought up.

Perhaps remembering the conservatorship struggle, which severely limited his contact with Carl for many years towards the end of Carl's life, and the fact that Dennis died so young whilst Brian was dealing with his own substance abuse problems, can help you see things from what we are assuming to be Brian's point of view.

However, maybe Brian will have no problem with a tribute to Carl and Dennis, in which case this discussion is moot. Either way, we've derailed this thread enough, and you said you were done with this discussion about 4 posts ago.

[drbeachboy]

Indeed! We are writing all these posts, assuming that they would be honored, but like you say, with Brian included, there could be nothing at all. Just to clear up things up a bit; my posts were only meant to include Dennis and Carl out of respect, nothing more. Not in the way that b00t claims that I am. They both played very important roles within the band, and still do. I mean, history follows you wherever you go.

[b00ts]

Indeed! We are writing all these posts, assuming that they would be honored, but like you say, with Brian included, there could be nothing at all. Just to clear up things up a bit; my posts were only meant to include Dennis and Carl out of respect, nothing more. Not in the way that b00t claims that I am. They both played very important roles within the band, and still do. I mean, history follows you wherever you go.

Doctor Beach Boy, I was not implying any sort of nefarious motive on your part. I understand that you want Dennis and Carl to be honored. They should be honored. I was merely trying to show you (unsuccessfully, it seems) that honoring the dead, in this case, must necessarily take a back seat to the mental health of the living.

It would be nice if 10, 15, 20, 30 years were the 'mandatory coping period' for death, but the reality is that we all deal with these things in our own ways. Respecting Brian's method of coping is important if we want him to be mentally healthy, and realistically, if we want him to show up to these reunion concerts.

[Chris Brown]

I can absolutely sympathize with Brian's feelings on Dennis and Carl...they were his brothers, the only two other people on earth who could really understand what he had to go through as a child, and two of the people who helped make his musical dreams a reality.  Like anyone else who has had family estrangements, I would imagine Brian immensely regrets the years that he missed out on with both of them, for all the reasons that we are all familiar with.  That is something that you really don't ever get over, not to mention the emotions that go along with losing people you love in the first place.    

Despite his feelings, there is always the possibility that if a proper reunion came to fruition, Brian's respect for his brothers and their contributions to the band would overshadow the negative/sad emotions that he obviously still feels.  As hard as it would probably be for him, I think Brian would want his brothers to be properly remembered and recognized at whatever reunion events may occur.  There is a big difference, in my mind, between Brian singing "Forever" on stage at one of his concerts and participating in an event honoring the 50-years that the band that you started with your brothers and cousin has been in existence.

[drbeachboy]

Either way, we've derailed this thread enough, and you said you were done with this discussion about 4 posts ago.

We did not derail anything. What I/we posted about was in regard to the tour. This is a discussion group. As long as you respond to my posts, I will answer. You did your part in keeping it ongoing. (Notice, no question mark) ;-)

[drbeachboy]

I can absolutely sympathize with Brian's feelings on Dennis and Carl...they were his brothers, the only two other people on earth who could really understand what he had to go through as a child, and two of the people who helped make his musical dreams a reality.  Like anyone else who has had family estrangements, I would imagine Brian immensely regrets the years that he missed out on with both of them, for all the reasons that we are all familiar with.  That is something that you really don't ever get over, not to mention the emotions that go along with losing people you love in the first place.   

Despite his feelings, there is always the possibility that if a proper reunion came to fruition, Brian's respect for his brothers and their contributions to the band would overshadow the negative/sad emotions that he obviously still feels.  As hard as it would probably be for him, I think Brian would want his brothers to be properly remembered and recognized at whatever reunion events may occur.  There is a big difference, in my mind, between Brian singing "Forever" on stage at one of his concerts and participating in an event honoring the 50-years that the band that you started with your brothers and cousin has been in existence.

Very well said, thank you.

[The Shift]

If Brian has issues looking at video or hearing their voices, he needs to buck up and face the fact that they are deceased ... most here think Brian's feelings are the only important ones to consider...

Yeah Brian you selfish h**g**ff, get over your brothers' deaths or find another job.

Really, I'd like to nominate Dr Beach Boy for the 2010 Caring Fan Award.

Really, I'd be happy for a re-union to take place without photos of Carl and Dennis on the wall. I'm suree the band – yes, even the Beach Boys – can pay tribute to the guys in their own way that's respectful and doesn't cause any upset.

[drbeachboy]

Indeed! We are writing all these posts, assuming that they would be honored, but like you say, with Brian included, there could be nothing at all. Just to clear up things up a bit; my posts were only meant to include Dennis and Carl out of respect, nothing more. Not in the way that b00t claims that I am. They both played very important roles within the band, and still do. I mean, history follows you wherever you go.

Doctor Beach Boy, I was not implying any sort of nefarious motive on your part. I understand that you want Dennis and Carl to be honored. They should be honored. I was merely trying to show you (unsuccessfully, it seems) that honoring the dead, in this case, must necessarily take a back seat to the mental health of the living.

It would be nice if 10, 15, 20, 30 years were the 'mandatory coping period' for death, but the reality is that we all deal with these things in our own ways. Respecting Brian's method of coping is important if we want him to be mentally healthy, and realistically, if we want him to show up to these reunion concerts.

Again, these are The Beach Boys we are dealing with here. I just keep forgetting that one important detail. Let them do whatever they do. I love them to death, but God, how they so frustrate me. I hope all is cool between us? I didn't want this get as argumentative as it did, and so my sincere apologies if I offended you, b00ts.

[drbeachboy]

If Brian has issues looking at video or hearing their voices, he needs to buck up and face the fact that they are deceased ... most here think Brian's feelings are the only important ones to consider...

Yeah Brian you selfish h**g**ff, get over your brothers' deaths or find another job.

Really, I'd like to nominate Dr Beach Boy for the 2010 Caring Fan Award.

Really, I'd be happy for a re-union to take place without photos of Carl and Dennis on the wall. I'm suree the band – yes, even the Beach Boys – can pay tribute to the guys in their own way that's respectful and doesn't cause any upset.

You have to be fu*king kidding me, right? Great! You are absolutely correct. No Dennis, No Carl at the reunion. There, I said it!

[b00ts]

Indeed! We are writing all these posts, assuming that they would be honored, but like you say, with Brian included, there could be nothing at all. Just to clear up things up a bit; my posts were only meant to include Dennis and Carl out of respect, nothing more. Not in the way that b00t claims that I am. They both played very important roles within the band, and still do. I mean, history follows you wherever you go.

Doctor Beach Boy, I was not implying any sort of nefarious motive on your part. I understand that you want Dennis and Carl to be honored. They should be honored. I was merely trying to show you (unsuccessfully, it seems) that honoring the dead, in this case, must necessarily take a back seat to the mental health of the living.

It would be nice if 10, 15, 20, 30 years were the 'mandatory coping period' for death, but the reality is that we all deal with these things in our own ways. Respecting Brian's method of coping is important if we want him to be mentally healthy, and realistically, if we want him to show up to these reunion concerts.

Again, these are The Beach Boys we are dealing with here. I just keep forgetting that one important detail. Let them do whatever they do. I love them to death, but God, how they so frustrate me. I hope all is cool between us? I didn't want this get as argumentative as it did, and so my sincere apologies if I offended you, b00ts.

No offense taken! I put a fine point on it, not meant to be personal at all, just meant to express my point very accurately. As you said, this is a discussion board, I just felt bad that you and I were taking up so much of the thread. Note that I said "You and I," not just you.

[Ron]

Just my unwanted two cents, I'm not so sure Brian wouldn't allow a Carl and Dennis bit in the show, he talks about them on "Lucky old Sun" and even showed pictures of them behind him in concert, didn't he? 

Also, like Andrew said, everybody copes different.  My father died 9 years ago, I have a painting hanging in my living room of him and me and my brother done when we were 5 years old, everytime I walk by it I don't look at it, and it's hanging on the wall out in the open!  I have a great life, I have good relationships and have 'moved on' so to say, but that doesn't mean that I want to go looking at pictures and home videos.  If Brian feels similarly, I can certainly relate.  I know many, many people who go on with their life after somebody dies and don't like bringing it up, because ultimately what's the point?  They're gone! 

I think the post far above where someone said we shouldn't expect Brian to confront emotional issues in the middle of a football stadium was exactly on point. 

[The Shift]

If Brian has issues looking at video or hearing their voices, he needs to buck up and face the fact that they are deceased ... most here think Brian's feelings are the only important ones to consider...

Yeah Brian you selfish h**g**ff, get over your brothers' deaths or find another job.

Really, I'd like to nominate Dr Beach Boy for the 2010 Caring Fan Award.

Really, I'd be happy for a re-union to take place without photos of Carl and Dennis on the wall. I'm suree the band – yes, even the Beach Boys – can pay tribute to the guys in their own way that's respectful and doesn't cause any upset.

You have to be fu*king kidding me, right? Great! You are absolutely correct. No Dennis, No Carl at the reunion. There, I said it!

I think you missed this bit:

... I'm sure the band – yes, even the Beach Boys – can pay tribute to the guys in their own way that's respectful and doesn't cause any upset.

[Rocker]

Indeed! We are writing all these posts, assuming that they would be honored, but like you say, with Brian included, there could be nothing at all. Just to clear up things up a bit; my posts were only meant to include Dennis and Carl out of respect, nothing more. Not in the way that b00t claims that I am. They both played very important roles within the band, and still do. I mean, history follows you wherever you go.

Who said that there won't be any kind of tribute? The question in the first place was if there would be a video of them and that probably won't happen. Doesn't mean they won't be mentioned. Take it easy....