"The Like In I Love You" Is Streaming

[Jason]

Dylan did barely half of what Brian did to himself? I don't know about THAT. I'd say it was a much smaller margin of difference.

[Runaways]

Bob Dylan to thread!

But yes, Brian's voice is rather incredible considering the sheer hell he's subjected it to over the past 40 yearss - Dylan did barely half of what Brian did to himself and he can barely spit out the words nowadays.

truth, but mr. dylan never had the voice brian did.  I look at paul mccartney, and his voice is going, but you can still hear 1960's paul.  same with dylan really.  Brian's voice is a whole new voice almost.

[hypehat]

Dylan did barely half of what Brian did to himself? I don't know about THAT. I'd say it was a much smaller margin of difference.

I thought Dylan was just your usual cocktail of 60's drugs with coke in the 70's and 80's and smoking like a bleeding chimney all the while, coupled with the incessant touring. He was never as far gone as BW, i meant.

[Wirestone]

The difference is simple. Dylan tours more than 100 dates a year and smokes like a chimney. Same thing with Joni (well, minus the incessant touring).

Every time Brian stopped smoking (late 70s for M.I.U. and mid- to late-90s), his voice noticeably improved afterward. You can do any number of drugs and subject yourself to any amount of abuse, but the two killers for a voice seem to simply be overwork and cigs.

Brian's "current" voice isn't that current either. We just hear more of it. The breaking point seems to be the early 80s -- he went into it still able to phrase reasonably intelligently (MIU again), and came out of it with the BB85 album, where you first hear that shouty, slightly unhinged sound.

My assumption has always been that Brian suffered some sort of permanent brain damage around that time, and he essentially has had to relearn to sing. This is separate from what happened toward the end of the Landy years -- I think that was less about the voice and more about the mind, period. And what he lost then -- mentally, creatively, personally -- has come back very slowly.

[oldsurferdude]

The difference is simple. Dylan tours more than 100 dates a year and smokes like a chimney. Same thing with Joni (well, minus the incessant touring).

Every time Brian stopped smoking (late 70s for M.I.U. and mid- to late-90s), his voice noticeably improved afterward. You can do any number of drugs and subject yourself to any amount of abuse, but the two killers for a voice seem to simply be overwork and cigs.

Brian's "current" voice isn't that current either. We just hear more of it. The breaking point seems to be the early 80s -- he went into it still able to phrase reasonably intelligently (MIU again), and came out of it with the BB85 album, where you first hear that shouty, slightly unhinged sound.

My assumption has always been that Brian suffered some sort of permanent brain damage around that time, and he essentially has had to relearn to sing. This is separate from what happened toward the end of the Landy years -- I think that was less about the voice and more about the mind, period. And what he lost then -- mentally, creatively, personally -- has come back very slowly.

Couldn't agree more-I've always noticed his phrasing, style etc. that sounded more like a "learning" process than that of a seasoned singer. Add voice lessons to that thought and there you have it.

[Wirestone]

What's interesting, to me, is that he has improved that phrasing in the quarter-century since. BW88 to Imagination to TLOS is a pretty good line -- he sounds much more human and emotive by the last of those. Live is hit or miss, but that demo of "Midnight's Another Day" -- his phrasing and sound is just incredible. Hopefully we'll hear some more of that on the Gershwin album.

[Ganz Allein]

Brian's "current" voice isn't that current either. We just hear more of it. The breaking point seems to be the early 80s -- he went into it still able to phrase reasonably intelligently (MIU again), and came out of it with the BB85 album, where you first hear that shouty, slightly unhinged sound.

My assumption has always been that Brian suffered some sort of permanent brain damage around that time, and he essentially has had to relearn to sing. This is separate from what happened toward the end of the Landy years -- I think that was less about the voice and more about the mind, period. And what he lost then -- mentally, creatively, personally -- has come back very slowly.

Couldn't agree more-I've always noticed his phrasing, style etc. that sounded more like a "learning" process than that of a seasoned singer. Add voice lessons to that thought and there you have it.

I hear the early '80s as the breaking point, too. Even as late as the "Cocaine Sessions," despite the huskiness and occasional phlegm, Brian still phrased well and naturally. It does sound like he had to relearn singing. His phrasing on the BWPS tracks (most noticeably on "Surf's Up") is different than the way he originally phrased 'em.  For me his voice was at its worst on "I Just Wasn't Made for These Times." It just sounds so thin and aged there, and even the rough "Still I Dream Of It" demo sounds more "natural" to me than that album's other performances. And even though his voice really is much older now, it sounds more relaxed and full on TLIILY and in recent years than it did in the mid-'90s.

[rab2591]

The difference is simple. Dylan tours more than 100 dates a year and smokes like a chimney.

He still smokes!?! Wow.

Brian's "current" voice isn't that current either. We just hear more of it. The breaking point seems to be the early 80s -- he went into it still able to phrase reasonably intelligently (MIU again), and came out of it with the BB85 album, where you first hear that shouty, slightly unhinged sound.

My assumption has always been that Brian suffered some sort of permanent brain damage around that time, and he essentially has had to relearn to sing. This is separate from what happened toward the end of the Landy years -- I think that was less about the voice and more about the mind, period. And what he lost then -- mentally, creatively, personally -- has come back very slowly.

Couldn't agree more-I've always noticed his phrasing, style etc. that sounded more like a "learning" process than that of a seasoned singer. Add voice lessons to that thought and there you have it.

For me his voice was at its worst on "I Just Wasn't Made for These Times." It just sounds so thin and aged there, and even the rough "Still I Dream Of It" demo sounds more "natural" to me than that album's other performances. And even though his voice really is much older now, it sounds more relaxed and full on TLIILY and in recent years than it did in the mid-'90s.

Agreed. My favorite Brian Wilson 'solo' song is 'Still Dream of It' from the IJWMFTTs album...but I can't really listen to the other songs on that album without cringing....'Do It Again' is a standout though.

[Don_Zabu]

Would it be incorrect of me to think that the verses sound more Gershwin and the "gliding in a starless sky" part sounds more Wilson?

[the captain]

Would it be incorrect of me to think that the verses sound more Gershwin and the "gliding in a starless sky" part sounds more Wilson?

I was thinking along those same lines, actually. There's a thread in the Smiley Smilers Who Make Music forum where we were discussing the lyrics and chords, and my opinion on that was the whole thing sounds like either Gershwin changes or Wilson-as-Gershwin changes, with that one little bit being the least Gershwin-like. Not to say BW didn't do other parts in that style to fit the piece, which is entirely possible. But the chords are pretty much typical of that sort of pop music.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Would it be incorrect of me to think that the verses sound more Gershwin and the "gliding in a starless sky" part sounds more Wilson?

I was thinking along those same lines, actually. There's a thread in the Smiley Smilers Who Make Music forum where we were discussing the lyrics and chords, and my opinion on that was the whole thing sounds like either Gershwin changes or Wilson-as-Gershwin changes, with that one little bit being the least Gershwin-like. Not to say BW didn't do other parts in that style to fit the piece, which is entirely possible. But the chords are pretty much typical of that sort of pop music.

Actually, that "gliding" little riff is pure Gershwin. It's the least musically changed part of the whole song.

[the captain]

The reason I was wondering about it was that it so minimizes the actual chords and features just the two-part harmony. With the fuller chords seemingly a second inversion Ab and second inversion Bb7 back and forth (second inversion meaning 5th of the chord on the bottom, for non-musicians)--not to mention "till we found the inner light"--it struck me as not especially typical of the time. But as I said in my initial discussion of it (in the other thread), I'm just guessing.

[Don_Zabu]

When it comes to singing, in the recent past, Brian seemed to prefer getting the notes out as quickly as possible, but now he's actually savoring and holding them like he would when he was young.