Brian in Documentary about Mellotron

[kirkmc- banned on the run]

I don't think the 'creative' editing in the doc really bothers me.

Suppose a BB documentary was edited to imply that Mike Love was largely responsible for "Good Vibrations": would that bother you ?

Well-this coming from a guy who thinks it's O.K. for Love to Parade around as The BEach Boys-)...All of a sudden words mean something-I guess.
Too funny...

[Andrew G. Doe]

I don't think the 'creative' editing in the doc really bothers me.

Suppose a BB documentary was edited to imply that Mike Love was largely responsible for "Good Vibrations": would that bother you ?

Well-this coming from a guy who thinks it's O.K. for Love to Parade around as The BEach Boys-)...All of a sudden words mean something-I guess.
Too funny...

Never said it was OK, just said he's entitled to as per the BRI license. English isn't your first language, is it ?

[Daniel S.]

I just got back from seeing the documentary. It was pretty good. The two Beach Boys songs that have Mellotron, according to the documentary, are Country Air and Add Some Music To Your Day. The filmmakers told a funny story about going to Brian's house to interview him. They brought a Mellotron to Brian's house so he could play it for the documentary and Brian thought it was gift. Also when Brian was asked to play the Mellotron, he would just press down with the palm of his hand. Brian's handlers hand to twist his arm to get him to play some actual chords.

Also, Brian mentions in the documentary that the Mellotron was not used as a replacement or substitute for string instruments. Brian said the Mellotron was used along with the strings to augment the sound.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I just got back from seeing the documentary. It was pretty good. The two Beach Boys songs that have Mellotron, according to the documentary, are Country Air and Add Some Music To Your Day. The filmmakers told a funny story about going to Brian's house to interview him. They brought a Mellotron to Brian's house so he could play it for the documentary and Brian thought it was gift. Also when Brian was asked to play the Mellotron, he would just press down with the palm of his hand. Brian's handlers hand to twist his arm to get him to play some actual chords.

Also, Brian mentions in the documentary that the Mellotron was not used as a replacement or substitute for string instruments. Brian said the Mellotron was used along with the strings to augment the sound.

Tracking sheets say Chamberlin, not Mellotron. I know it's a fine-ish distinction, even for someone as famously picky as me, but although they have a common origin, a Chamberlin isn't a Mellotron, just as a chimp isn't a gorilla. Check this out:

http://www.mellotron.com/history.htm

[Mike's Beard]

A quick check of your site AGD shows that the bulk of co credits Mike sued for were from the "Surfer Girl", "Christmas", "All Summer Long" and "Summer Days!(And Summer Nights)" lps. Lyrically I don't see it much of a stretch that Mike wrote the words for songs such as Hawaii and Dance, Dance, Dance etc... Everyone who was there acknowledges the lyrics for California Girls came from Mike. Can you give some examples of which tunes you feel he shouldn't have received a credit on? I personally feel the attempts he made to get his name on as much Pet Sounds stuff as he did to be somewhat alarming. Also whenever I now see the credits Wilson-Usher-Love on a song they seem a little suspect to my eyes.  What really feels Twilight Zone to me is WHY MIKE SAT BACK FOR OVER 30 YEARS BEFORE SUDDENLY REMEMBERING THAT HE WROTE ALL THESE SONGS? They did print composer credits on record sleeves back in the '60's right?

[Andrew G. Doe]

 What really feels Twilight Zone to me is WHY MIKE SAT BACK FOR OVER 30 YEARS BEFORE SUDDENLY REMEMBERING THAT HE WROTE ALL THESE SONGS? They did print composer credits on record sleeves back in the '60's right?

Exactly, although he used to say that when he tackled Brian about it back in the day, Brian would say he'd talk to Murry about it. As. If.

[c-man]

A quick check of your site AGD shows that the bulk of co credits Mike sued for were from the "Surfer Girl", "Christmas", "All Summer Long" and "Summer Days!(And Summer Nights)" lps. Lyrically I don't see it much of a stretch that Mike wrote the words for songs such as Hawaii and Dance, Dance, Dance etc... Everyone who was there acknowledges the lyrics for California Girls came from Mike. Can you give some examples of which tunes you feel he shouldn't have received a credit on? I personally feel the attempts he made to get his name on as much Pet Sounds stuff as he did to be somewhat alarming. Also whenever I now see the credits Wilson-Usher-Love on a song they seem a little suspect to my eyes.  What really feels Twilight Zone to me is WHY MIKE SAT BACK FOR OVER 30 YEARS BEFORE SUDDENLY REMEMBERING THAT HE WROTE ALL THESE SONGS? They did print composer credits on record sleeves back in the '60's right?

To play Devil's Advocate here, Mike's contributions to the Wilson-Usher and Wilson-Asher songs that he claims to have contributed to were add-ons and revisions, made after the inital songwriting was done, but nonethess essential "hooks" in his opinion, and therefore worthy of co-credit.  For "409" he claims to have added the "She's so fine, my 409" and "Giddy-up, giddy-up 4-0-9" lines.  The two "Pet Sounds" songs Mike claimed a cowrite for are "Wouldn't It Be Nice", for which he says his contribution was the "Good night, oh-oh baby, Sleep tight, oh-oh baby" tag (added at the actual studio vocal session), and "I Know There's An Answer", for which he claims the revised title (from the original "Hang On To Your Ego"), and a few revised words therein.  My opinion?  Mike deserves a portion of the credit and royalties, but on a basis proportionate to his contributions (and it might have played out that way had Brian's advisors accepted a proposed settlement, instead of insisting on going the distance, and ultimately losing, which resulted in a much higher royalty rate being awarded to Mike for these songs and the others he laid partial claim to).

[c-man]

There's supposedly a bit of actual Mellotron on "I Wanna Pick You Up" and Dennis' "School Girl", unless it's a Chamberlain mis-labeled as Mellotron on the track sheets.

[Andrew G. Doe]

A quick check of your site AGD shows that the bulk of co credits Mike sued for were from the "Surfer Girl", "Christmas", "All Summer Long" and "Summer Days!(And Summer Nights)" lps. Lyrically I don't see it much of a stretch that Mike wrote the words for songs such as Hawaii and Dance, Dance, Dance etc... Everyone who was there acknowledges the lyrics for California Girls came from Mike. Can you give some examples of which tunes you feel he shouldn't have received a credit on? I personally feel the attempts he made to get his name on as much Pet Sounds stuff as he did to be somewhat alarming. Also whenever I now see the credits Wilson-Usher-Love on a song they seem a little suspect to my eyes.  What really feels Twilight Zone to me is WHY MIKE SAT BACK FOR OVER 30 YEARS BEFORE SUDDENLY REMEMBERING THAT HE WROTE ALL THESE SONGS? They did print composer credits on record sleeves back in the '60's right?

To play Devil's Advocate here, Mike's contributions to the Wilson-Usher and Wilson-Asher songs that he claims to have contributed to were add-ons and revisions, made after the inital songwriting was done, but nonethess essential "hooks" in his opinion, and therefore worthy of co-credit.  For "409" he claims to have added the "She's so fine, my 409" and "Giddy-up, giddy-up 4-0-9" lines.  The two "Pet Sounds" songs Mike claimed a cowrite for are "Wouldn't It Be Nice", for which he says his contribution was the "Good night, oh-oh baby, Sleep tight, oh-oh baby" tag (added at the actual studio vocal session), and "I'm Waiting For The Day", for which he claims the revised title (from the original "Hang On To Your Ego"), and a few revised words therein.  My opinion?  Mike deserves a portion of the credit and royalties, but on a basis proportionate to his contributions (and it might have played out that way had Brian's advisors accepted a proposed settlement, instead of insisting on going the distance, and ultimately losing, which resulted in a much higher royalty rate being awarded to Mike for these songs and the others he laid partial claim to).

No argument here - memory might be shaky here, but I recall that Mike's team was happy to settle out of court for a flat $750,000, credit and future royalties, but Brian's management said nope, see you in court.

Now, much as I respect Brian's unassailable genius as a musician, if you're going into a court of law and your #1 defence witness is Brian Wilson, well... might as well lay down in the corridor and say "OK, rape me now !": what the F*** were they thinking of ??!?

[adamghost]

A quick check of your site AGD shows that the bulk of co credits Mike sued for were from the "Surfer Girl", "Christmas", "All Summer Long" and "Summer Days!(And Summer Nights)" lps. Lyrically I don't see it much of a stretch that Mike wrote the words for songs such as Hawaii and Dance, Dance, Dance etc... Everyone who was there acknowledges the lyrics for California Girls came from Mike. Can you give some examples of which tunes you feel he shouldn't have received a credit on? I personally feel the attempts he made to get his name on as much Pet Sounds stuff as he did to be somewhat alarming. Also whenever I now see the credits Wilson-Usher-Love on a song they seem a little suspect to my eyes.  What really feels Twilight Zone to me is WHY MIKE SAT BACK FOR OVER 30 YEARS BEFORE SUDDENLY REMEMBERING THAT HE WROTE ALL THESE SONGS? They did print composer credits on record sleeves back in the '60's right?

To play Devil's Advocate here, Mike's contributions to the Wilson-Usher and Wilson-Asher songs that he claims to have contributed to were add-ons and revisions, made after the inital songwriting was done, but nonethess essential "hooks" in his opinion, and therefore worthy of co-credit.  For "409" he claims to have added the "She's so fine, my 409" and "Giddy-up, giddy-up 4-0-9" lines.  The two "Pet Sounds" songs Mike claimed a cowrite for are "Wouldn't It Be Nice", for which he says his contribution was the "Good night, oh-oh baby, Sleep tight, oh-oh baby" tag (added at the actual studio vocal session), and "I'm Waiting For The Day", for which he claims the revised title (from the original "Hang On To Your Ego"), and a few revised words therein.  My opinion?  Mike deserves a portion of the credit and royalties, but on a basis proportionate to his contributions (and it might have played out that way had Brian's advisors accepted a proposed settlement, instead of insisting on going the distance, and ultimately losing, which resulted in a much higher royalty rate being awarded to Mike for these songs and the others he laid partial claim to).

No argument here - memory might be shaky here, but I recall that Mike's team was happy to settle out of court for a flat $750,000, credit and future royalties, but Brian's management said nope, see you in court.

Now, much as I respect Brian's unassailable genius as a musician, if you're going into a court of law and your #1 defence witness is Brian Wilson, well... might as well lay down in the corridor and say "OK, rape me now !": what the F*** were they thinking of ??!?

Yeah, I agree...I've been as critical of Mike's songwriting credit grab as anyone, for reasons I've spelled out in great detail elsewhere...but the fact is Mike was certainly owed credit for "California Girls", I definitely buy him as lyricist on "Dance Dance Dance" (putting Carl's name on and leaving Mike off strikes me as a too-cute move from Murry) and I can easily believe he changed already completed songs in the studio in other cases (whether or not that merits a songwriting credit depends largely on one's own perspective.  It rubs me personally the wrong way based on my own admitted experience and biases), so the guy was due something at least.  Brian's team has its share of blame to take for the situation working out as it did.

[Matt H]

It is also interesting that Usher (1990) and Christian (1991) had both died fairly recently before the lawsuit, so for the songs that they co-wrote, they could not defend what was written.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

It is also interesting that Usher (1990) and Christian (1991) had both died fairly recently before the lawsuit, so for the songs that they co-wrote, they could not defend what was written.

Maybe it's....(dum, dum, dummmm) CONSPIRACY? Great, now we can add 'murderer' to the long list of Mike's faults          Although to be fair, he's already portrayed as such by some people....

[c-man]

It is also interesting that Usher (1990) and Christian (1991) had both died fairly recently before the lawsuit, so for the songs that they co-wrote, they could not defend what was written.

Maybe it's....(dum, dum, dummmm) CONSPIRACY? Great, now we can add 'murderer' to the long list of Mike's faults          Although to be fair, he's already portrayed as such by some people....

I'm pretty sure Mike laid no claim whatsoever to any Wilson/Christian songs.  And not many of the Wilson/Usher songs (in fact, "409" might be the only one).

[absinthe_boy]

For better or worse, Leaf chose the drama of the moment and the shape of the film over chronological accuracy. Documentary filmmakers often smudge ethical boundaries (http://www.centerforsocialmedia.org/resources/publications/honest_truths_documentary_filmmakers_on_ethical_challenges_in_their_work/), and it's accepted in the field as a kind of necessary evil.

As a print journalist, I find this dubious. But Leaf's movie was ultimately marketed as musical entertainment, not investigative journalism.

I don't recall the film actually stating that Macca attended the opening night. It is implied of course, by the way the film is edited....now....everyone of us knows Paul McCartney attended at a slightly later date....to the rest of the world, it probably doesn't matter. AGD no doubt has a note of when Paul and any other luminaries actually attended so the facts will not be lost to posterity.



Next somebody will point out that Pet Sounds Live in London isn't culled from just one show...

[Andrew G. Doe]

It is also interesting that Usher (1990) and Christian (1991) had both died fairly recently before the lawsuit, so for the songs that they co-wrote, they could not defend what was written.

Maybe it's....(dum, dum, dummmm) CONSPIRACY? Great, now we can add 'murderer' to the long list of Mike's faults          Although to be fair, he's already portrayed as such by some people....

I'm pretty sure Mike laid no claim whatsoever to any Wilson/Christian songs.  And not many of the Wilson/Usher songs (in fact, "409" might be the only one).

No Wilson/Christian, three Wilson/Usher

Chug-A-Lug (B. Wilson/Usher/Love*)
409 (B. Wilson/Usher/Love*) - compilation perennial
Farmer's Daughter (B. Wilson/Love*)
Shut Down (B. Wilson/Usher/Love*) - compilation perennial/Top 30
Noble Surfer (B. Wilson/Love*)
Finders Keepers (B. Wilson/Love*)
Hawaii (B. Wilson/Love*)
Be True To Your School (B. Wilson/Love*) - compilation perennial/Top 10
I Get Around (B. Wilson/Love*) - compilation perennial/#1
All Summer Long* (B. Wilson/Love*) - compilation perennial
Wendy (B. Wilson/Love*) -compilation perennial/Top 50
Do You Remember ? (B. Wilson/Love*)
Drive-In (B. Wilson/Love*)
Don't Back Down (B. Wilson/Love*)
Little Saint Nick* (B. Wilson/Love*) - compilation perennial/Xmas Top 5
The Man With All The Toys (B. Wilson/Love*) - Xmas Top 5
Santa's Beard (B. Wilson/Love*)
Merry Christmas, Baby (B. Wilson/Love*)
Good To My Baby (B. Wilson/Love*)
Don't Hurt My Little Sister (B. Wilson/Love*)
When I Grow Up (To Be A Man) (B. Wilson/Love*) - compilation perennial/Top 10
Help Me, R(h)onda (B. Wilson/Love*) - compilation perennial/#1
Dance, Dance, Dance (B. Wilson/C. Wilson/Love*) - compilation perennial/Top 10
Please Let Me Wonder (B. Wilson/Love*) - compilation perennial
Kiss Me Baby (B. Wilson/Love*)
She Knows Me Too Well (B. Wilson/Love*)
In The Back Of My Mind (B. Wilson/Love*)
The Girl From New York City (B. Wilson/Love*)
Amusement Parks USA (B. Wilson/Love*)
Salt Lake City (B. Wilson/Love*)
California Girls (B. Wilson/Love*) - compilation perennial/Top 5, no argument here
Let Him Run Wild (B. Wilson/Love*) compilation perennial
You're So Good To Me (B. Wilson/Love*) compilation perennial
Wouldn't It Be Nice (B. Wilson/Asher/Love*) - compilation perennial/Top 10
I Know There's An Answer (B. Wilson/Asher/Sachen/Love*)
Hang On To Your Ego (B. Wilson/Asher/Love*)

Question - anyone else find it odd he claimed to have contributed to "Let Him Run Wild", but not "The Little Girl I Once Knew" ? They're pretty much of a piece.

[urbanite]

Brian was a horrible witness in the trial, so Mike didn't have much of an opponent.  Who on Brian's team made the decision that it would go to trial and not be settled for $750,000?

I'm willing to bet money that Mike Love had to give a deposition before the case went to trial.  It would be one interesting read if someone could post the deposition transcript on this board.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Brian was a horrible witness in the trial, so Mike didn't have much of an opponent.  Who on Brian's team made the decision that it would go to trial and not be settled for $750,000?

I've got no proof, but from what I've been told by, ah, certain folk, I think we could all make a most reasonable guess.

[JaredLekites]

Next somebody will point out that Pet Sounds Live in London isn't culled from just one show...

You mean Brian didn't have multiple costume changes while he performed Pet Sounds live in London?

[GLarson432]

Brian opened "SMiLE" on 2/20/04 and premiered it for three straight days.  After a day off (2/23) McCartney and George Martin were at the show on the 24th.  This was the 4th of six shows that premiered "SMiLE" at the RFH.

[TdHabib]

Just my opinion, but the "Little Girl I Once Knew" lyrics sound a lot like Brian...his lyrics are often simple and to-the-point, and terrific for that matter.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Brian opened "SMiLE" on 2/20/04 and premiered it for three straight days.  After a day off (2/23) McCartney and George Martin were at the show on the 24th.  This was the 4th of six shows that premiered "SMiLE" at the RFH.

Which show was originally the final date, until they had to add two more when the four announced shows sold out in under an hour.

Next somebody will point out that Pet Sounds Live in London isn't culled from just one show...

You mean Brian didn't have multiple costume changes while he performed Pet Sounds live in London?

The bit that never fails to crack me up is where his shirt changes not merely in mid-song but in mid-sentence !!  That said, the audio on this DVD just blows away the sterile CD.

[Big Bri]

Nothing quite like the sound of the Mellotron.
And I couldn't help but associate it with my other favorite band right after(if not equal to the BB's)and that is Genesis.
Tony Banks put the Mellotron to dramatic use. Especially the intro to "Watcher Of The Skies".
Very warm instrument.

Big Bri

[Stegibo]

Nothing quite like the sound of the Mellotron.
And I couldn't help but associate it with my other favorite band right after(if not equal to the BB's)and that is Genesis.
Tony Banks put the Mellotron to dramatic use. Especially the intro to "Watcher Of The Skies".
Very warm instrument.

Big Bri

Cool, my second favorite band is Genesis too!

[gsmile]

Thirded!  Genesis are my second favorite band as well.  Tony Banks is amazing.  A Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering are my two all-time favs.  The mellotron was a very important element to their early sound.

I have the Mellodrama movie sitting at home right now...been waiting for a good lazy afternoon to give it a spin.  Wouldn't be great if Brian had played "Country Air" instead of "California Girls"?  Wouldn't put it past him...he's done more artistically shocking things when least expected.  Judging from the account the filmmakers had, sounds like he was just having an off day.

[Daniel S.]

I'm glad the conversation is returning to the Mellotron. Not sure how this all turned into who sued who?

Tony Banks from Genesis is interviewed in the film as well as Mike Pinder from the Moody Blues and Ian McDonald from King Crimson.