The star of the group is the music

[drbeachboy]

Since Kokomo was released, I hear more about it as the song that Brian had nothing to do with, than what a great number one song that they had in 1988. As for 20/20 through Holland, most all you read about are Brian's contributions to those albums. Ever read a bio on The Beach Boys? Very little is about the group as a whole. Mostly about Brian, his songs and his problems. I absolutely agree with your first two sentences, but the "know-littles" are the ones that propagate the myth and short sell the full history of the band. We die-hards may know the full truth, and give every band member their due, but Brian will always be the main man and the big story behind The Beach Boys. Ask the average Joe who Brian Wilson is, and I'll bet they know. Now, ask them to name the rest of the band and I bet they can't. Like Dennis once said (paraphrased) "Brian Wilson is The Beach Boys and we're his f@#&ing messengers."

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Yeah, well I take that Dennis quote with a grain of coke! He's speaking up about his big brother and it's awesome and respectful, but it doesn't demand to be agreed with.

Yes, I've read just about every single bio ever written about The Beach Boys and just about every review/interview/article/piece ever committed to press. And  yeah, you are absolutely right, just about everything talks up Brian but what do I care if my favorite singer of all-time is Carl, my favorite drummer/solo artist is Dennis, favorite 20/20 track is Be With Me, favorite Holland Track is Trader, favorite Light Album track is Full Sail? Get the picture? I can be just as big a Beach Boys fan as Dominic Priore but not just love everything Brian at the expense of say: 70% of what the Beach Boys are/were!

[Mike's Beard]

Brian will always be seen as 'the man' by casual observers of the band because he was responsible for all the hits. Fair enough. It's just a shame the others only started writing once the music had stopped selling so much. If the group had held on to it's popularity in the States for just another 12 - 18 months or so, then Dennis or Bruce probably would have scored a hit and people would be more aware of the contributions of the others.

My favourite album track of all the time by The 'Boys is "The Trader" by Carl.
Fav single is "Cotonfields" by Al. (Admittedly "Do it Again" and "Good Vibrations" are jointly 2nd place by a microinch)
Carl had the best voice.
Bruce was the best musician.

This is not meant to take away from the achievements of Brian in any way it just seems that too much focus is put on the early to mid 60's era at the detriment of equally satisfying periods within the group.

I've been meaning to start this question as a new post for some time but may as well ask it here as it relates to the discussion:

               Every man and his dog now knows that Brian had a much diminished role within the band from '69-76 (Sunflower excluded) and at times it would be a stretch to say he even was still a member of the group but how aware where people of this at the time? Was it an 'open' secret within the industry/music press? Where the fans aware at all? Obviously using older tracks with his name on the credits and dragging out the occasional new masterpiece from him masked the situation somewhat but these things have a way of getting out all the same.

As always any views/info appreciated.

[drbeachboy]

The question is not whether the band members were an important historical part of the band, but rather will the band be remembered in history that way? My answer to this at the moment is, NO. Their history will always revolve around Brian; his triumphs, his eccentricities and his mental illness through the years. It is a real shame, because I don't think Brian would have had the same success without The Beach Boys. History has shown that he came nowhere near that success with any external projects that he worked on over his entire career, even his own solo career.

Post Pet Sounds, no matter how you slice it, Brian's writing contributions to each album were highlights, except for the last three.
Smiley Smile - Brian
Wild Honey - Brian
Friends - Brian & Dennis
20/20 - Brian, Carl & Dennis
Sunflower - Brian & Dennis
Surf's Up - Brian & Carl
CATP - Brian & Dennis
Holland - The whole band (but released only after Brian's "Sail On Sailor" added)
15 Big Ones - Brian
Love You - Brian
MIU - Brian
L.A. - Carl, Dennis and Brian
KTSA - Brian & Carl

What is always forgotten though are the performances. Good songs are made great by the vocal performances. That excellence is what gets mentioned, but rarely gets put to the forefront over the composition. I suppose it is easier to write about one person (Brian) in the forefront, than writing about all 6-7 group members. Even if they are forever known as Brian's band, at least The Beach Boys as a band will live on in musical history.

[jmc]

Case in point: Kokomo! Not the greatest song, sure, but the fact that the The Beach Boys were able to score a # 1 hit that Brian had nothing to do with in any facet has GOT to say something. Put that song on and, like it or not, it sounds just like THE BEACH BOYS!!!! Brian didn't show everyone how to do everything!

To be fair Erik, you could argue that Kokomo wasn't really that much of a Beach Boys song in terms of writing and producing.  Mike and Bruce love to point out that it was a song that Brian had nothing to do with, but really did they??  It is listed as being written by, Scott Mackenzie, Mike Love, John Phillips, and Terry Melcher.  Yes, Mike Love is listed but he probably only wrote a few of the words (the corny ones) and the music and production were largely done by the other three (all of which had success as writers and producers on their own).  You are right in that Brian didn't do everything for the group, but in this case, the other Beach Boys took a handout from Mackenzie, Phillips and Melcher.   Now the singing is a different story; I give the "other" boys full credit, but you can't sing a hit if you don't write one and I don't think the Beach Boys had much to do with writing Kokomo. I wish I were wrong and maybe I am....

 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Case in point: Kokomo! Not the greatest song, sure, but the fact that the The Beach Boys were able to score a # 1 hit that Brian had nothing to do with in any facet has GOT to say something. Put that song on and, like it or not, it sounds just like THE BEACH BOYS!!!! Brian didn't show everyone how to do everything!

To be fair Erik, you could argue that Kokomo wasn't really that much of a Beach Boys song in terms of writing and producing.  Mike and Bruce love to point out that it was a song that Brian had nothing to do with, but really did they??  It is listed as being written by, Scott Mackenzie, Mike Love, John Phillips, and Terry Melcher.  Yes, Mike Love is listed but he probably only wrote a few of the words (the corny ones) and the music and production were largely done by the other three (all of which had success as writers and producers on their own).  You are right in that Brian didn't do everything for the group, but in this case, the other Beach Boys took a handout from Mackenzie, Phillips and Melcher.   Now the singing is a different story; I give the "other" boys full credit, but you can't sing a hit if you don't write one and I don't think the Beach Boys had much to do with writing Kokomo. I wish I were wrong and maybe I am....

The greater part of "Kokomo" was written by John Phillips & Scott Mackenzie in Ocean City MD during the summer of 1984: by his own admission, all Mike really came up with was the "Aruba, Jamaica..." intro hook.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Well, it's still a Beach Boys songs just as much as Sail On Sailor is a Beach Boys song that no beach boy really had all that much to do with (the final product) .... And IMHO the performances/singing/production of hits has just as much to do with the material, and in some cases more!

BTW, the whole issue really isn't fair. How many bands are there that have had NO hits but are beloved cult bands where each member gets a ton of respect whether they wrote a single note or not?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Well, it's still a Beach Boys songs just as much as Sail On Sailor is a Beach Boys song that no beach boy really had all that much to do with (the final product)

'Scuse me ? You're seriously stating that Brian didn't have much to do with the creation of "Sail On, Sailor" ? You're way out of line, sonny. Brian wrote the basic melody. Mike had nothing to do with either the verse or chorus melody of "Kokomo", or indeed most of the lyric.

[Shady]

He added that smoooth vocal though 

[BillA]

Well, it's still a Beach Boys songs just as much as Sail On Sailor is a Beach Boys song that no beach boy really had all that much to do with (the final product)

'Scuse me ? You're seriously stating that Brian didn't have much to do with the creation of "Sail On, Sailor" ? You're way out of line, sonny. Brian wrote the basic melody. Mike had nothing to do with either the verse or chorus melody of "Kokomo", or indeed most of the lyric.

If you are talking about the final product wasn't that a Carl production?

Question:  Between SOS and Kokomo which song from, composing, lyrics, arrangement, vocals and production had a bigger Beach Boy participation level?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Well, it's still a Beach Boys songs just as much as Sail On Sailor is a Beach Boys song that no beach boy really had all that much to do with (the final product)

'Scuse me ? You're seriously stating that Brian didn't have much to do with the creation of "Sail On, Sailor" ? You're way out of line, sonny. Brian wrote the basic melody. Mike had nothing to do with either the verse or chorus melody of "Kokomo", or indeed most of the lyric.

If you are talking about the final product wasn't that a Carl production?

Question:  Between SOS and Kokomo which song from, composing, lyrics, arrangement, vocals and production had a bigger Beach Boy participation level?

"Sail On, Sailor" - composed B. Wilson/V. D. Parks/R. Kennedy/J. Rieley: arranged by Carl (& Brian): produced by Carl: vocals by The Beach Boys

"Kokomo"          - composed J Phillips/S. Mackenzie/T Melcher/M. Love: arranged & produced T. Melcher: vocals by The Beach Boys.

[bgas]

Case in point: Kokomo! Not the greatest song, sure, but the fact that the The Beach Boys were able to score a # 1 hit that Brian had nothing to do with in any facet has GOT to say something. Put that song on and, like it or not, it sounds just like THE BEACH BOYS!!!! Brian didn't show everyone how to do everything!

To be fair Erik, you could argue that Kokomo wasn't really that much of a Beach Boys song in terms of writing and producing.  Mike and Bruce love to point out that it was a song that Brian had nothing to do with, but really did they??  It is listed as being written by, Scott Mackenzie, Mike Love, John Phillips, and Terry Melcher.  Yes, Mike Love is listed but he probably only wrote a few of the words (the corny ones) and the music and production were largely done by the other three (all of which had success as writers and producers on their own).  You are right in that Brian didn't do everything for the group, but in this case, the other Beach Boys took a handout from Mackenzie, Phillips and Melcher.   Now the singing is a different story; I give the "other" boys full credit, but you can't sing a hit if you don't write one and I don't think the Beach Boys had much to do with writing Kokomo. I wish I were wrong and maybe I am....

The greater part of "Kokomo" was written by John Phillips & Scott Mackenzie in Ocean City MD during the summer of 1984: by his own admission, all Mike really came up with was the "Aruba, Jamaica..." intro hook.

Well, let me just ask this:
Did Mike only write the Aruba part, or did he write the part all the way thru to " I want to take you down to Kokomo, we'll get there fast" etc?

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Yeah, Sail On Sailor was a bad choice on my part for an example! I was in a hurry and listed it mainly because of the numerous credits on the tune!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I guess my whole problem/bug up my ass has to do with this almost obsessive need to pinpoint and zero in on who wrote the damn thing rather than to enjoy the thing/product as a whole! Especially when we're talking about rock and roll/pop that is so much about the performances/voices/production/overall emotional impact. We respect and lavish praise on performers such as Frank Sinatra and Elvis who didn't write a damn thing but we focus on only one guy in The Beach Boys who are that rare band to have achieved such a defined and unified group sound!

[Andrew G. Doe]

Case in point: Kokomo! Not the greatest song, sure, but the fact that the The Beach Boys were able to score a # 1 hit that Brian had nothing to do with in any facet has GOT to say something. Put that song on and, like it or not, it sounds just like THE BEACH BOYS!!!! Brian didn't show everyone how to do everything!

To be fair Erik, you could argue that Kokomo wasn't really that much of a Beach Boys song in terms of writing and producing.  Mike and Bruce love to point out that it was a song that Brian had nothing to do with, but really did they??  It is listed as being written by, Scott Mackenzie, Mike Love, John Phillips, and Terry Melcher.  Yes, Mike Love is listed but he probably only wrote a few of the words (the corny ones) and the music and production were largely done by the other three (all of which had success as writers and producers on their own).  You are right in that Brian didn't do everything for the group, but in this case, the other Beach Boys took a handout from Mackenzie, Phillips and Melcher.   Now the singing is a different story; I give the "other" boys full credit, but you can't sing a hit if you don't write one and I don't think the Beach Boys had much to do with writing Kokomo. I wish I were wrong and maybe I am....

The greater part of "Kokomo" was written by John Phillips & Scott Mackenzie in Ocean City MD during the summer of 1984: by his own admission, all Mike really came up with was the "Aruba, Jamaica..." intro hook.

Well, let me just ask this:
Did Mike only write the Aruba part, or did he write the part all the way thru to " I want to take you down to Kokomo, we'll get there fast" etc?

I've never hear or read of Mike claiming anything except that intro hook.

[metal flake paint]

Case in point: Kokomo! Not the greatest song, sure, but the fact that the The Beach Boys were able to score a # 1 hit that Brian had nothing to do with in any facet has GOT to say something. Put that song on and, like it or not, it sounds just like THE BEACH BOYS!!!! Brian didn't show everyone how to do everything!

To be fair Erik, you could argue that Kokomo wasn't really that much of a Beach Boys song in terms of writing and producing.  Mike and Bruce love to point out that it was a song that Brian had nothing to do with, but really did they??  It is listed as being written by, Scott Mackenzie, Mike Love, John Phillips, and Terry Melcher.  Yes, Mike Love is listed but he probably only wrote a few of the words (the corny ones) and the music and production were largely done by the other three (all of which had success as writers and producers on their own).  You are right in that Brian didn't do everything for the group, but in this case, the other Beach Boys took a handout from Mackenzie, Phillips and Melcher.   Now the singing is a different story; I give the "other" boys full credit, but you can't sing a hit if you don't write one and I don't think the Beach Boys had much to do with writing Kokomo. I wish I were wrong and maybe I am....

The greater part of "Kokomo" was written by John Phillips & Scott Mackenzie in Ocean City MD during the summer of 1984: by his own admission, all Mike really came up with was the "Aruba, Jamaica..." intro hook.

Well, let me just ask this:
Did Mike only write the Aruba part, or did he write the part all the way thru to " I want to take you down to Kokomo, we'll get there fast" etc?

I've never hear or read of Mike claiming anything except that intro hook.

This is an excerpt from "The Strange History of Summer's Most Annoying Song - Kokomo. By Scott Brown.

Mike Love: "I told John (Phillips) that it didn't groove enough for me. So I came up with the 'Aruba, Jamaica' part. And I changed a couple of words. He had it as 'That's where we used to go.' I said, 'That sounds like an old man lamenting his lost or misspent youth.' I changed it to 'That's where you wanna go.'"

[Andrew G. Doe]

Case in point: Kokomo! Not the greatest song, sure, but the fact that the The Beach Boys were able to score a # 1 hit that Brian had nothing to do with in any facet has GOT to say something. Put that song on and, like it or not, it sounds just like THE BEACH BOYS!!!! Brian didn't show everyone how to do everything!

To be fair Erik, you could argue that Kokomo wasn't really that much of a Beach Boys song in terms of writing and producing.  Mike and Bruce love to point out that it was a song that Brian had nothing to do with, but really did they??  It is listed as being written by, Scott Mackenzie, Mike Love, John Phillips, and Terry Melcher.  Yes, Mike Love is listed but he probably only wrote a few of the words (the corny ones) and the music and production were largely done by the other three (all of which had success as writers and producers on their own).  You are right in that Brian didn't do everything for the group, but in this case, the other Beach Boys took a handout from Mackenzie, Phillips and Melcher.   Now the singing is a different story; I give the "other" boys full credit, but you can't sing a hit if you don't write one and I don't think the Beach Boys had much to do with writing Kokomo. I wish I were wrong and maybe I am....

The greater part of "Kokomo" was written by John Phillips & Scott Mackenzie in Ocean City MD during the summer of 1984: by his own admission, all Mike really came up with was the "Aruba, Jamaica..." intro hook.

Well, let me just ask this:
Did Mike only write the Aruba part, or did he write the part all the way thru to " I want to take you down to Kokomo, we'll get there fast" etc?

I've never hear or read of Mike claiming anything except that intro hook.

This is an excerpt from "The Strange History of Summer's Most Annoying Song - Kokomo. By Scott Brown.

Mike Love: "I told John (Phillips) that it didn't groove enough for me. So I came up with the 'Aruba, Jamaica' part. And I changed a couple of words. He had it as 'That's where we used to go.' I said, 'That sounds like an old man lamenting his lost or misspent youth.' I changed it to 'That's where you wanna go.'"

"So I came up with the 'Aruba, Jamaica' part. And I changed a couple of words".

Big difference.

[Wirestone]

I will speak up for Mike here. That hook makes the song. It's okay without it, but the one thing everyone remembers from "Kokomo" is "Aruba, Jamaica ..." etc. Mike is rightly proud of his contribution, and smart enough to know that it's probably what made the song a hit. After all, how many other hits did John Phillips have in the 80s?

Mike is a decent lyricist (a good to great one in the 60s), but his real genius, if I can use the word, is in those short hooks. It's one of the things that makes SIP a guilty pleasure -- it's full of them. The problem is, they're not hanging on any real songs.

[Cam Mott]

Well, it's still a Beach Boys songs just as much as Sail On Sailor is a Beach Boys song that no beach boy really had all that much to do with (the final product)

'Scuse me ? You're seriously stating that Brian didn't have much to do with the creation of "Sail On, Sailor" ? You're way out of line, sonny. Brian wrote the basic melody. Mike had nothing to do with either the verse or chorus melody of "Kokomo", or indeed most of the lyric.

If you are talking about the final product wasn't that a Carl production?

Question:  Between SOS and Kokomo which song from, composing, lyrics, arrangement, vocals and production had a bigger Beach Boy participation level?

"Sail On, Sailor" - composed B. Wilson/V. D. Parks/R. Kennedy/J. Rieley: arranged by Carl (& Brian): produced by Carl: vocals by The Beach Boys

"Kokomo"          - composed J Phillips/S. Mackenzie/T Melcher/M. Love: arranged & produced T. Melcher: vocals by The Beach Boys.

Hasn't Bruce said that they had been working on Kokomo and then Carl got involved and gutted the production and re-produced? Did I dream that?

[Wirestone]

The most complete account of the track's birth that I've read is here:

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,640541,00.html

And it doesn't say that Carl was involved in the production -- but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, I guess.

What's also interesting is all the guys on the session -- Van Dyke Parks, Ry Cooder, Keltner, Foskett.

[Alex]

"Sail On, Sailor" - composed B. Wilson/V. D. Parks/R. Kennedy/J. Rieley: arranged by Carl (& Brian): produced by Carl: vocals by The Beach Boys

Isn't it actually Wilson/Parks/Kennedy/Tandyn Almer/Reiley?

[urbanite]

Good article on Kokomo.  I got a kick out of the comment by Brian's spokesman that he doesn't want to talk about Kokomo, not now, not ever.

[Andrew G. Doe]

"Sail On, Sailor" - composed B. Wilson/V. D. Parks/R. Kennedy/J. Rieley: arranged by Carl (& Brian): produced by Carl: vocals by The Beach Boys

Isn't it actually Wilson/Parks/Kennedy/Tandyn Almer/Reiley?

Damn right it is. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

The most complete account of the track's birth that I've read is here:

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,640541,00.html

And it doesn't say that Carl was involved in the production -- but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, I guess.

What's also interesting is all the guys on the session -- Van Dyke Parks, Ry Cooder, Keltner, Foskett.

Interesting - Mackenzie's account runs completely counter to what Phillips wrote in his autobiography in 1986, two years before the song was released or even recorded. My money's on Papa John.

[Wirestone]

AGD -- What did Papa John say?

And -- um -- recent revelations may compromise the man's integrity. Just saying.