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Author Topic: Carl's Guitars  (Read 10295 times)
Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2010, 01:54:35 AM »

It's about 1965, to judge from the hairstyles and the weight of certain participants. I think it's from a TV show... certainly not live.
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« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2010, 04:34:24 AM »

Although its all over the later Marksmen records, David never like the guitar...he said it was hard to play and he was disappointed it wasn't like George's.  He sold it for what he paid for it some time in the late 60's...but not before his father engraved his name on the backside of the serial plate.  Years later, after he realized how rare a guitar it was, he looked for it and heard rumors about a collector in Santa Barbara who had it.  Another 10 years or so went by and David met Jeff Foskett and it turns out, Jeff was the collector in Santa Barbara that had it...he'd picked it up in the 80's when he was in the Beach Boys.  David offered Jeff 10 grand for it on the spot...he paused slightly and then said No.  As far as I know, Jeff still has it.

Carrie - I checked with Bjorn Erikson, and he said that there was an extremely small number of original 360/12s (less than 5 certainly) made in the '64 timeframe with an f-hole, so David's guitar may have been one of the rarest of them all. If the guitar had two output jacks (for the faux-stereo Rick-O-Sound effect) it was one of those 360/12s, otherwise it was a 330S/12 like Carl's which for some reason got 360 inlays. Either way, it's a rare bird.
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« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2010, 10:00:16 AM »

Although its all over the later Marksmen records, David never like the guitar...he said it was hard to play and he was disappointed it wasn't like George's.  He sold it for what he paid for it some time in the late 60's...but not before his father engraved his name on the backside of the serial plate.  Years later, after he realized how rare a guitar it was, he looked for it and heard rumors about a collector in Santa Barbara who had it.  Another 10 years or so went by and David met Jeff Foskett and it turns out, Jeff was the collector in Santa Barbara that had it...he'd picked it up in the 80's when he was in the Beach Boys.  David offered Jeff 10 grand for it on the spot...he paused slightly and then said No.  As far as I know, Jeff still has it.

WOW!

Carrie, great info!  Was it true that Carl had suggested to Dave that he sell it?  Interesting that Foskett has it.....maybe someday Dave can get it back.

Thanks again for this info, how ironic is this?  Wow.
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« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2010, 05:23:36 PM »

I asked David about the dual out-put jacks and his answer was, "Whoa, I forgot about that...yeah it did."  So yes, it would seem it was one of those less-than-five-made 360/12's then. Thanks for doing the research...its great to get a little history on the guitar.  How it ended up on the rack on Hawthorne Blvd is still a mystery, though!  Unless Bjorn has that info...I'd be curious to know?

Not Dick Dale...

No, Carl didn't have any role in him selling the Ricky...I asked him - it was '73 when he let it go, so he hadn't been in touch with Carl for a few years at that point.  Besides, I think Carl would have known its value, at the very least...if he couldn't convince David to keep it, he probably would have bought it himself. As far as getting it back, Jeff has been a really great friend and David is happy for it to reside with him!
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« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2010, 08:48:24 AM »

I asked David about the dual out-put jacks and his answer was, "Whoa, I forgot about that...yeah it did."  So yes, it would seem it was one of those less-than-five-made 360/12's then. Thanks for doing the research...its great to get a little history on the guitar.  How it ended up on the rack on Hawthorne Blvd is still a mystery, though!  Unless Bjorn has that info...I'd be curious to know?

Not Dick Dale...

No, Carl didn't have any role in him selling the Ricky...I asked him - it was '73 when he let it go, so he hadn't been in touch with Carl for a few years at that point.  Besides, I think Carl would have known its value, at the very least...if he couldn't convince David to keep it, he probably would have bought it himself. As far as getting it back, Jeff has been a really great friend and David is happy for it to reside with him!

Carrie, thanks again for the insight and I guess there is a bit of a happy ending - as you said, if Dave doesn't have it, at least he knows where it is and maybe Jeff will allow him visitations, LOL.

 Grin
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Rob Dean
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« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2010, 09:03:48 AM »

Here is a link to another rather rare guitar , as used by Carl

http://www.firstpublishedinparis.com/emperadorpage.htm
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« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2010, 11:49:01 AM »

Here is a link to another rather rare guitar , as used by Carl

http://www.firstpublishedinparis.com/emperadorpage.htm

Nice one Rob!
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« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2010, 06:45:05 PM »

Sorry I missed this until now!

Very good work everybody--this is exactly the kind of thing I'd like to get into more, figuring out more exact equipment info, even for session guys too.

Now, everybody get to work so we can finally figure out what the two 12-strings were on the WIBN intro.
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« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2010, 10:19:00 PM »

Does anybody know anything about the gold colored Fender Stratocaster that Carl sometimes played? What year was the guitar? Did he play more than one?
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« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2010, 10:20:50 PM »

Now, everybody get to work so we can finally figure out what the two 12-strings were on the WIBN intro.
I always thought that the WIBN intro was a harp.  Grin
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« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2010, 10:59:27 PM »

Now, everybody get to work so we can finally figure out what the two 12-strings were on the WIBN intro.

This according to BehindTheSounds' Youtube video for WIBN: "Barney Kessel probably isn't using a standard 12-string guitar for this session, but rather a custom built instrument- a mandolin body attached to a 12-string guitar neck".
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« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2010, 06:38:56 AM »

Does anybody know anything about the gold colored Fender Stratocaster that Carl sometimes played? What year was the guitar? Did he play more than one?

Do you mean "Ol' yeller" ? The one you can see during the Knebworth-concert?
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« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2010, 06:57:25 AM »

Now, everybody get to work so we can finally figure out what the two 12-strings were on the WIBN intro.

This according to BehindTheSounds' Youtube video for WIBN: "Barney Kessel probably isn't using a standard 12-string guitar for this session, but rather a custom built instrument- a mandolin body attached to a 12-string guitar neck".

Later scholarship has disproved this.
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« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2010, 11:49:08 AM »

Here's some info about "Old Yeller" from an old post by Billy Hinsche (from one of the old message boards):

"He had the first production model 'Olympic White' Fender Stratocaster. He called it 'Old Yeller' when the color faded over time."



« Last Edit: May 23, 2010, 11:50:42 AM by Emdeeh » Logged
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« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2010, 11:54:10 AM »

a mandolin body attached to a 12-string guitar neck".

Sounds a little like a 12-string bouzouki. Smiley




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« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2010, 12:18:05 PM »

It's about 1965, to judge from the hairstyles and the weight of certain participants. I think it's from a TV show... certainly not live.


I'm not sure:





BTW just for completeness, I found a picture of the Carl model in black:

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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

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To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

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« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2010, 08:19:14 AM »

Now, everybody get to work so we can finally figure out what the two 12-strings were on the WIBN intro.

This according to BehindTheSounds' Youtube video for WIBN: "Barney Kessel probably isn't using a standard 12-string guitar for this session, but rather a custom built instrument- a mandolin body attached to a 12-string guitar neck".

Later scholarship has disproved this.

Quite possible that it was a Bellzouki - an early electric 12 from Danelectro (the one that resembled a mandolin was the single-pickup model 7010; the 7020 with 2 pickups had a pointier body). The 7010 came out as early as '61, and IIRC, Tommy Tedesco owned one, so it's plausible that Kessel owned one or used Tedesco's at a Wrecking Crew session.



The Bellzouki is supposedly heard on the theme from "Bonanza" and Jackie DeShannon's original version of "When You Walk In The Room" (played by Glen Campbell).  The Bellzouki was designed by NY session guitar player Vinnie Bell (who also designed the Coral electric sitar - the body of the Coral instrument looks to be a slightly refined version of the 7020 Bellzouki - no surprise, since Danelectro and Coral were under the same corporate umbrella).

Put a bit of compression on a Bellzouki through a Fender Deluxe and turn up the 'verb, and I think you'd come very close to the WIBN intro sound.

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« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2010, 11:13:47 AM »

It's about 1965, to judge from the hairstyles and the weight of certain participants. I think it's from a TV show... certainly not live.


I'm not sure:





Damn, a picture was meant to be seen there. Try these links:
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/73988888

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/73987503.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA548AD3C45E8BB3B6DBFE92DF77F5B896D3ABF378189685BF7CA
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
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« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2010, 11:44:19 AM »

It's about 1965, to judge from the hairstyles and the weight of certain participants. I think it's from a TV show... certainly not live.


I'm not sure:





Damn, a picture was meant to be seen there. Try these links:
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/73988888

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/73987503.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA548AD3C45E8BB3B6DBFE92DF77F5B896D3ABF378189685BF7CA




Getty Images probably doesn't allow hotlinking, so I just copied it to my Photobucket account.
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« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2010, 12:28:38 PM »

It's about 1965, to judge from the hairstyles and the weight of certain participants. I think it's from a TV show... certainly not live.


I'm not sure:





Damn, a picture was meant to be seen there. Try these links:
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/73988888

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/73987503.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA548AD3C45E8BB3B6DBFE92DF77F5B896D3ABF378189685BF7CA




Getty Images probably doesn't allow hotlinking, so I just copied it to my Photobucket account.


Thanks. Did you get the second picture as well?
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
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« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2010, 12:53:41 PM »

Now, everybody get to work so we can finally figure out what the two 12-strings were on the WIBN intro.

This according to BehindTheSounds' Youtube video for WIBN: "Barney Kessel probably isn't using a standard 12-string guitar for this session, but rather a custom built instrument- a mandolin body attached to a 12-string guitar neck".

Later scholarship has disproved this.

Quite possible that it was a Bellzouki - an early electric 12 from Danelectro (the one that resembled a mandolin was the single-pickup model 7010; the 7020 with 2 pickups had a pointier body). The 7010 came out as early as '61, and IIRC, Tommy Tedesco owned one, so it's plausible that Kessel owned one or used Tedesco's at a Wrecking Crew session.



The Bellzouki is supposedly heard on the theme from "Bonanza" and Jackie DeShannon's original version of "When You Walk In The Room" (played by Glen Campbell).  The Bellzouki was designed by NY session guitar player Vinnie Bell (who also designed the Coral electric sitar - the body of the Coral instrument looks to be a slightly refined version of the 7020 Bellzouki - no surprise, since Danelectro and Coral were under the same corporate umbrella).

Put a bit of compression on a Bellzouki through a Fender Deluxe and turn up the 'verb, and I think you'd come very close to the WIBN intro sound.



Except the WIBN intro was taken direct and supposedly Gold Star didn't have compressors for anything other than mastering...

I've considered that it might have been the bellzouki.  That could explain some of the confusion that has arisen, I suppose.  What really should be done is a test, somebody should get various instruments and try 'em, make a 12-string mandolin hybrid and try it, etc.
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« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2010, 04:13:46 PM »



The only other possibility that occurs to me that Kessel might've used is a Vox Mando-guitar, which was used by George Harrison and Brian Jones on various recordings (Some web pages assert hearing one of these on the Beatles' recordings of "Words Of Love", which I'd totally discount - that's a Gretsch Tennessean and a Gibson J-160E, and "Girl", which I'm pretty sure is a capoed acoustic; I'd be more inclined to believe hearing the Mando-guitar on the Magical Mystery Tour album - perhaps on "Baby You're A Rich Man". Brian Jones supposedly used the Mando-guitar on "Mother's Little Helper" and "Get Off My Cloud").
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« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2010, 08:14:25 AM »

I would think it's a Vox Mando on the Fabs' "It's Only Love".  Stones-wise, I'd say "Mother's Little Helper".
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« Reply #48 on: May 29, 2010, 08:33:36 AM »

Whatever instrument is playing the main Intro line on "WIBN", it's definitely Barney Kessel and it's definitley a kind of guitar, according to BW himself.  In the premier issue of the official BW fan newsletter "Break Away" (Summer 1996), Brian answered a fan question on what instrument starts the song, and he replied "It's two guitars - one played high up on the neck and the other one played regular".  In the Fall 1997 issue of "Break Away", he's quoted as saying Kesel's guitar on "WIBN" "brought a kind of ring-a-ding sound". 

Maybe that's all it is...two Fender 12s, or maybe a Ric/Fender duet.  If it IS a Bellzouki, they obviously had to add tons of reverb to compensate for that instrument's inherent lack of sustain.  Isn't a Bellzouki used on Simon & Garfunkel's "Sound Of Silence" (the overdubbed "electric" hit single version)?

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« Reply #49 on: May 29, 2010, 03:21:13 PM »

I would think it's a Vox Mando on the Fabs' "It's Only Love".  Stones-wise, I'd say "Mother's Little Helper".

I'd say on "It's Only Love" John is playing a 12-string acoustic capoed up high, probably the Framus 12 you see him with in the scene in "Help" playing "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away". George is likely using the Tenny or a Strat to get that nasal tone with plenty of warble on the vibrato arm. I don't hear the Mando on it at all. Can't really think of the Fabs using the Mando on the "Help!" album - "Rubber Soul", very possibly, but "Help!" was more them playing with their new Strats.

I would definitely agree with you on "Mother's Little Helper".

I know someone online at another forum who has a '61 Bellzouki - I'll ask him about how it sustains...
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