Mike Love's Lyrics Are Underappreciated

[Dancing Bear]

I don't know what offends me more in Reggie Dunbar's post, if the old myth that Mike couldn't write 'serious lyrics' or positioning Kalinich over him in the rank. 

[OneEar/OneEye]

To be fair, I think that Brian and Al's lyrics have been just as bad as Mike's in the last 30 years.

You may be right, though I've often thought that Al is a more interesting lyricist than Mike (or at least has better poetic instincts) even when he's doing something bad.  The difference - though it might not be relevant in this discussion - Mike makes a point of promoting his skills as a lyricist, whereas Al and Brian don't.

and this begs the question I've had for a long time - why didn't Al and Brian write together more often?  And for that matter, why didn't Brian write much with the others (if at all)?  Why didn't say Dennis and Mike write more together - or did they always dislike each other?   And I've wondered if Dennis had become the main source of songs in 67/68 onward (with Mike and others supplying some of the lyrics) what...that would have been pretty cool 

[Cam Mott]

Good Vibrations could not have better lyrics than Mike's. Asher's are pedestrian.

You said it. Mike's version takes the exact same concept Brian was expressing and made it much better and more relevant than Asher's version. Did Asher just forget how rhymes work that day?

I have no evidence to support my theory but I don't think those are Asher's lyrics. I suspect it's just Brian picking on words to lay down a guide vocal, nothing more. They're banal lyrics and were probably, in my opinion, never meant for release.

[sigh]

I'll keep saying this until it penetrates - Asher's "GV" lyrics were nothing more than dummy lyrics, verbal placeholders. How can I be so sure ? I asked him. I never hear anyone giving Macca grief for "scambled eggs/oh my darling you've got lovely legs"...

I was told something similar, that they had gotten that far and Tony's understanding was that they would get back the song and those lyrics later and finish what they had only begun but they never got back to the song.

[Cam Mott]

I'm not much of a fan of any of the lyrics after the 60s but Mike deserves [the most] credit up until then.

IMO in particular GV is the perfect lyric for its time. Also on PS, IWFTD stands head and shoulders with Asher's great lyrics on one of the best Pop albums so far. Even just the change of the phrase HOTYE to IKTAA is a stroke of genius that turned a sow ear into a silk purse IMO, if that can really be credited to Mike which the vocal out-takes cast doubt on.

[The Shift]

I still can't decide if the "Student Demonstration Time" lyrics are masterful or terrible. Or both.

Stinker in my view.

[Don_Zabu]

I still can't decide if the "Student Demonstration Time" lyrics are masterful or terrible. Or both.

Some lines are better than others.

[rasmus skotte]

How about if a Mike-line was an inspiration for one of Van's new SMiLE lines? Compare these:

"...GLIDE into the POOL of PEACE inside" (from All This Is That)

"...Somewhere in a PLACID POOL and SINK" (from In Blue Hawaii)

[punkinhead]

Brian seems always to have selected collaborators based on personality (he likes assertive, verbal, quick-witted guys) than on actual talent. This has worked out well in some cases (Love, Parks, Bennett) and not so well in others (Kalinich, Thomas).

Don't think Brian actually chose Joe Thomas - he just went along with the joke...

What's the joke? I mean, Brian hanging out with a mulleted loser is a joke.   

[slothrop]

and this begs the question I've had for a long time - why didn't Al and Brian write together more often?  And for that matter, why didn't Brian write much with the others (if at all)?  Why didn't say Dennis and Mike write more together - or did they always dislike each other?   And I've wondered if Dennis had become the main source of songs in 67/68 onward (with Mike and others supplying some of the lyrics) what...that would have been pretty cool 

I know it's a little off topic but I can't stand nearly half of Dennis' writing. Or at least how he recorded things. A lot of POB and especially the work on CATP is extremely melodramatic. Awful, maudlin, etc. For instance, I like "River Song" but the over the top track and backing vocals kill it for me. Sorry had to get that out as a group hug is the last thing much of Dennis' work inspires in me!

Back to topic however...I was listening to "When I Grow Up (To Be A Man)" in the car this morning. As a young man at approximately the same age as Brian when he recorded this song, I have to say whoever wrote the lyrics was spot on. Mike or Brian, it doesn't matter who, captured the uncertainty of the age. Although a song called "When I Grow Up" might sound juvenile, the questions raised by the lyrics are as honest as it gets. Wonderful words.

[Mike's Beard]

and this begs the question I've had for a long time - why didn't Al and Brian write together more often?  And for that matter, why didn't Brian write much with the others (if at all)?  Why didn't say Dennis and Mike write more together - or did they always dislike each other?   And I've wondered if Dennis had become the main source of songs in 67/68 onward (with Mike and others supplying some of the lyrics) what...that would have been pretty cool 

I know it's a little off topic but I can't stand nearly half of Dennis' writing. Or at least how he recorded things. A lot of POB and especially the work on CATP is extremely melodramatic. Awful, maudlin, etc. For instance, I like "River Song" but the over the top track and backing vocals kill it for me. Sorry had to get that out as a group hug is the last thing much of Dennis' work inspires in me!

Back to topic however...I was listening to "When I Grow Up (To Be A Man)" in the car this morning. As a young man at approximately the same age as Brian when he recorded this song, I have to say whoever wrote the lyrics was spot on. Mike or Brian, it doesn't matter who, captured the uncertainty of the age. Although a song called "When I Grow Up" might sound juvenile, the questions raised by the lyrics are as honest as it gets. Wonderful words.

I think in many ways the lyrics to "When I Grow Up (To Be A Man) are better than anything on PS regardless of who penned them. Similar themes to PS but not so depressing in their sentiments.

Wilson/Love early days partnership aside, I have also wondered why the band did not collabrate collectively as an entire group on songs more. I think Friends is the only real example of them doing this. More often than not they would pick someone out of the band to write with than anyone in the group.

[BillA]

and this begs the question I've had for a long time - why didn't Al and Brian write together more often?  And for that matter, why didn't Brian write much with the others (if at all)?  Why didn't say Dennis and Mike write more together - or did they always dislike each other?   And I've wondered if Dennis had become the main source of songs in 67/68 onward (with Mike and others supplying some of the lyrics) what...that would have been pretty cool 

I know it's a little off topic but I can't stand nearly half of Dennis' writing. Or at least how he recorded things. A lot of POB and especially the work on CATP is extremely melodramatic. Awful, maudlin, etc. For instance, I like "River Song" but the over the top track and backing vocals kill it for me. Sorry had to get that out as a group hug is the last thing much of Dennis' work inspires in me!

Back to topic however...I was listening to "When I Grow Up (To Be A Man)" in the car this morning. As a young man at approximately the same age as Brian when he recorded this song, I have to say whoever wrote the lyrics was spot on. Mike or Brian, it doesn't matter who, captured the uncertainty of the age. Although a song called "When I Grow Up" might sound juvenile, the questions raised by the lyrics are as honest as it gets. Wonderful words.

My guess is that the reason there was not more intra-group collaboration is that Dennis and Carl were not lyricists and that Al was not very prolific.  The band members went outside the group for lyrics out of necessity.

Mike seems to be the Dave Kingman of lyricists - either a home run or a strike out, unfortunately, as the 60's became the 70's the strike outs vastly outnumbered the home runs.

[Mr. Cohen]

Mike seems to be the Dave Kingman of lyricists - either a home run or a strike out, unfortunately, as the 60's became the 70's the strike outs vastly outnumbered the home runs.

You'd almost say that he bunted when the band needed a grand slam.

[Jay]

Frankly, with the exception of the unbelievably decent "Rock and Roll to the Rescue" I'm hard pressed to find one Love lyric that does not make me cringe a little.

I challenge you to do better than this:

Cashmere hills filled with evergreens
Flowin' from the clouds down to meet the sea
With the granite cliff as a referee
Crimson sunsets and golden dawns
Mother deer with their newborn fawns
Under Big Sur skies and that's where I belong.

Big Sur I've got plans for you
Me and mine are going to
Add ourselves to your lengthy list of lovers
And live in canyons covered with a springtime green
While birds and flowers to be heard and seen
And on my old guitar I'll make up songs to sing.
Sparklin' springs from the mountainside
Join the Big Sur river rushing to the tide
Where my kids can search for sea shells at low tide
Big Sur my astrology it says that I am meant to be
Where the rugged mountain meets the water

And so while stars shine brightly and up above
Fog rolls in through a redwood grove
And to my dying fire I think I'll add a log.

[Exapno Mapcase]

RnR to the Rescue's okay for its time, but it's not good.  Big Sur is. Both versions.

[DSamore]

Mike Love's lyrics...decent at times. Yet so often, his formulaic ambitions kept retaining him from more "Big Sur" material and too often will he be remembered for his horrible dance moves, nasal voice, and cheesy lyrics.

[Alex]

Frankly, with the exception of the unbelievably decent "Rock and Roll to the Rescue" I'm hard pressed to find one Love lyric that does not make me cringe a little.

I challenge you to do better than this:

Cashmere hills filled with evergreens
Flowin' from the clouds down to meet the sea
With the granite cliff as a referee
Crimson sunsets and golden dawns
Mother deer with their newborn fawns
Under Big Sur skies and that's where I belong...

How 'bout this?
Way back when we had the master plan
of having fun fun fun as America's band
we came out rockin' with Rhonda and Barbara Ann

or this?

People all around the world in every nation
Like to get together for some excitations
If you're a girl appreciates her recreation
Why don't you let me take you on a love vacation

Yeah I'll take you to the movies
But I'm no fool (wah wah oooo)
First I'll get you on the beach
Or in a swimming pool
Doing unto others is the Golden Rule
But doing it with you would be so
Very cool

Girls are always ready for a summer of love
Goin' out and lookin' for love (girls are always ready)
Girls are always ready for a summer of love (sum sum summer summer of love)
Goin' out and lookin' for love (sum sum summer summer

[TdHabib]

Frankly, with the exception of the unbelievably decent "Rock and Roll to the Rescue" I'm hard pressed to find one Love lyric that does not make me cringe a little.

I challenge you to do better than this:

Cashmere hills filled with evergreens
Flowin' from the clouds down to meet the sea
With the granite cliff as a referee
Crimson sunsets and golden dawns
Mother deer with their newborn fawns
Under Big Sur skies and that's where I belong.

Big Sur I've got plans for you
Me and mine are going to
Add ourselves to your lengthy list of lovers
And live in canyons covered with a springtime green
While birds and flowers to be heard and seen
And on my old guitar I'll make up songs to sing.
Sparklin' springs from the mountainside
Join the Big Sur river rushing to the tide
Where my kids can search for sea shells at low tide
Big Sur my astrology it says that I am meant to be
Where the rugged mountain meets the water

And so while stars shine brightly and up above
Fog rolls in through a redwood grove
And to my dying fire I think I'll add a log.

The KEY to my post was that I don't care for Mike's latter day lyrics. I may have fudged on the time frame, but I have always liked the first version of "Big Sur" a lot.

[Don_Zabu]

Frankly, with the exception of the unbelievably decent "Rock and Roll to the Rescue" I'm hard pressed to find one Love lyric that does not make me cringe a little.

I challenge you to do better than this:

Cashmere hills filled with evergreens
Flowin' from the clouds down to meet the sea
With the granite cliff as a referee
Crimson sunsets and golden dawns
Mother deer with their newborn fawns
Under Big Sur skies and that's where I belong...

How 'bout this?
Way back when we had the master plan
of having fun fun fun as America's band
we came out rockin' with Rhonda and Barbara Ann

or this?

People all around the world in every nation
Like to get together for some excitations
If you're a girl appreciates her recreation
Why don't you let me take you on a love vacation

Yeah I'll take you to the movies
But I'm no fool (wah wah oooo)
First I'll get you on the beach
Or in a swimming pool
Doing unto others is the Golden Rule
But doing it with you would be so
Very cool

Girls are always ready for a summer of love
Goin' out and lookin' for love (girls are always ready)
Girls are always ready for a summer of love (sum sum summer summer of love)
Goin' out and lookin' for love (sum sum summer summer

How 'bout you pick your teeth with this?

What good is the dawn
That grows into day
The sunset at night
Or living this way

For I have the warmth of the sun
(Warmth of the sun)
Within me at night
(Within me at night)

[Mike's Beard]

Doesn't get much better than that does it?

[Alex]

How 'bout you pick your teeth with this?

What good is the dawn
That grows into day
The sunset at night
Or living this way

For I have the warmth of the sun
(Warmth of the sun)
Within me at night
(Within me at night)

Or...

Down in Utah the guys and I dig a city called Salt Lake
It's got the grooviest kids that's why we never get tired of Salt Lake
And the way the kids talk so cool is an outtasite thing
and the number one radio station in the town really swings

For every Big Sur, Warmth of the Sun, Please Let Me Wonder, Anna Lee The Healer, and All I Wanna Do, there are a hundred of Summer Of Love, Summer In Paradise, Still Surfin', Some Of Your Love, Kona Coast, Brian's Back, Kokomo, Still Cruisin', Skatetown USA/California Beach, etc.

[slothrop]

I've always dug Big Sur and realized the lyrics were quite good...but looking at them sans music, they are just brilliant. Real poetry of a high order. The whole California Saga rips hard; what the heck happened to Mike and Al in the hiatus the band took after Holland. Makes you wonder what the band could've been if instead of making Brian the sole head again, they ALL worked together to make something extremely eclectic and beautiful.

[Mike's Beard]

The last line of your post sums up in a nutshell exactly what went wrong with the BB's. Of course Brian should have been welcomed back into the fold as a full time participating creative member but to cut the legs off creatively from the others (esp Dennis) is THE most stupidest thing they did in their entire history.

[slothrop]

The last line of your post sums up in a nutshell exactly what went wrong with the BB's. Of course Brian should have been welcomed back into the fold as a full time participating creative member but to cut the legs off creatively from the others (esp Dennis) is THE most stupidest thing they did in their entire history.

Yes. Even though Brian is without a doubt my favorite BB, even I can see this. Would've been such a powerful band with all these guys pooling their talent together.