When Beach Boys sound like other Beach Boys.

[runnersdialzero]

My memory must be getting senile. First, I forgot a lot about the infamous SMiLE handwritten note thread. Now, I'm drawing a blank on the Brian/Al vocal debate. Didn't Steve Desper, who engineered the session, say that it was Brian on the "Surf's Up" coda?

Could the "sped up Brian" been an alternate track they recorded and didn't use? It's odd that an engineer not only recalled that it was Brian, but the method they used to get the vocal. Still, that sounds exactly like Al, I don't see how it could be anyone else. Generally, it's Al sounding like another member and not someone else sounding Al.

[runnersdialzero]

I THINK the coda on ADITLOAT is Jack Riely(yes, I know I spelled it wrong), Al, and Van Dyke.

'Tis, as far as I know. Al could sound a whole hell of a lot like another member, usually Brian, but the one thing that usually sets them apart is Al typically had a harder "edge" to his voice than Brian.

I used to think Brian sang "This Whole World." Of course it was him on the first line, but the vocal "handoff" to Carl was so smooth I didn't notice it.

I thought Brian sang lead on the Smile version of "Vegetables" for the longest time. 

Same here on both of these, although I didn't want to mention them for some reason. Damn misleading first lines.

I love Carl's vocal on "This Whole World", but I really wish there was an alternate Brian vocal lying around somewhere. It puzzled me why they'd have Brian sing leads at the beginning and then he wouldn't be on the rest of the track - "California" is another example, and I think there's another that escapes me right now.

In "California", I always thought Brian's vocal at the beginning was THE hook of the song, the other choruses sound empty to me without it. It annoyed me so much that I remixed it so his vocal part comes in again at each chorus because it sounds like it should be there. JSUTME, now I've rambled about nothing for too long.

[Paulos]

Even though it's been confirmed by several people that Carl sang lead on How She Boogalooed It, it still sounds like Al to me, even after repeated listens through headphones.

To be honest I'm not sure why I care so much as I don't actually like HSBI but hey, I guess that's all part of being a Beach Boys obsessive! 

[Sheriff John Stone]

I love Carl's vocal on "This Whole World", but I really wish there was an alternate Brian vocal lying around somewhere. It puzzled me why they'd have Brian sing leads at the beginning and then he wouldn't be on the rest of the track - "California" is another example, and I think there's another that escapes me right now.

It's equally perplexing the FEW lead vocals that Brian Wilson actually sang on the Beach Boys' five albums from 1969-1973. He basically went five years, during a period when he could still sing, during a period that is a favorite of many fans, and rarely sang an extended lead vocal.

[Alex]

Mike on "Hawaii". Thought it was Dennis. Must've been that cold. Also thought the SMiLE version of Wind Chimes was Brian for the longest time.

The SMiLE version of Wind Chimes isn't Brian? Who is it, since this is news to me...

It's Carl doubled by Brian.

[Stegibo]

I always thought that Al sings lead on Heroes And Villains.

[slothrop]

I love Carl's vocal on "This Whole World", but I really wish there was an alternate Brian vocal lying around somewhere. It puzzled me why they'd have Brian sing leads at the beginning and then he wouldn't be on the rest of the track - "California" is another example, and I think there's another that escapes me right now.

In "California", I always thought Brian's vocal at the beginning was THE hook of the song, the other choruses sound empty to me without it. It annoyed me so much that I remixed it so his vocal part comes in again at each chorus because it sounds like it should be there. JSUTME, now I've rambled about nothing for too long.

I always though "This Whole World" was Brian doing his best Carl impression. But it's actually more like Carl doing his best Brian doing Carl impression.

The single mix of "Californ-i-a" is, IMO, much more anthemic with the extra Brian vocals and responses. Plus the overall "punchier" sound, too.

[Wrightfan]

Mike on "Hawaii". Thought it was Dennis. Must've been that cold. Also thought the SMiLE version of Wind Chimes was Brian for the longest time.

The SMiLE version of Wind Chimes isn't Brian? Who is it, since this is news to me...

Yeah it's Carl as has been said. That one made me go "WAAAAAAH?" also.

It's also Al in the SMiLE version of Vega-Tables. Thought that was Brian for a long time also.

[runnersdialzero]

I love Carl's vocal on "This Whole World", but I really wish there was an alternate Brian vocal lying around somewhere. It puzzled me why they'd have Brian sing leads at the beginning and then he wouldn't be on the rest of the track - "California" is another example, and I think there's another that escapes me right now.

It's equally perplexing the FEW lead vocals that Brian Wilson actually sang on the Beach Boys' five albums from 1969-1973. He basically went five years, during a period when he could still sing, during a period that is a favorite of many fans, and rarely sang an extended lead vocal.

There are reports that he tried to sing the 71 "Surf's Up" but stopped after what he felt to be two bad takes. Would it have sounded great to us? Probably. Did he still not feel his voice was good enough? Very likely, yes. I think the reason he rarely sang on his own songs or even others songs around that time could have been that he had recognized the change in his voice a few years before felt that he couldn't do his songs justice. But other members, usually Carl? Shore, they could.

[slothrop]

There are reports that he tried to sing the 71 "Surf's Up" but stopped after what he felt to be two bad takes. Would it have sounded great to us? Probably. Did he still not feel his voice was good enough? Very likely, yes. I think the reason he rarely sang on his own songs or even others songs around that time could have been that he had recognized the change in his voice a few years before felt that he couldn't do his songs justice. But other members, usually Carl? Shore, they could.

Kind of ironic that he started singing more leads after his voice really had gone south. He must've just really needed to get that music out.

[armona]

My memory must be getting senile. First, I forgot a lot about the infamous SMiLE handwritten note thread. Now, I'm drawing a blank on the Brian/Al vocal debate. Didn't Steve Desper, who engineered the session, say that it was Brian on the "Surf's Up" coda?

Yep. I asked him in his thread.

[Ebb and Flow]

It's 1000% Al on the Surf's Up coda.

http://www.filefreak.com/files/138097_yobcr/Surf%5C%27sUpCoda.mp3

[Jay]

It's 1000% Al on the Surf's Up coda.

http://www.filefreak.com/files/138097_yobcr/Surf%5C%27sUpCoda.mp3

Actually, I think it's both.

[Jim V.]

I love Carl's vocal on "This Whole World", but I really wish there was an alternate Brian vocal lying around somewhere. It puzzled me why they'd have Brian sing leads at the beginning and then he wouldn't be on the rest of the track - "California" is another example, and I think there's another that escapes me right now.

It's equally perplexing the FEW lead vocals that Brian Wilson actually sang on the Beach Boys' five albums from 1969-1973. He basically went five years, during a period when he could still sing, during a period that is a favorite of many fans, and rarely sang an extended lead vocal.

There are reports that he tried to sing the 71 "Surf's Up" but stopped after what he felt to be two bad takes. Would it have sounded great to us? Probably. Did he still not feel his voice was good enough? Very likely, yes. I think the reason he rarely sang on his own songs or even others songs around that time could have been that he had recognized the change in his voice a few years before felt that he couldn't do his songs justice. But other members, usually Carl? Shore, they could.

Has there ever been a discussion with Brian (or any of the BB) regarding why he didn't have many lead vocals from 69-73? Was he self-conscious about his voice during this time? Its just odd that most of his leads we're these little half ass ditties like "Walkin'", "Good Time", "Games Two Can Play", etc. Not to say those weren't good songs (well at least "Good Time"). "Til I Die" is an obvious exception from that era. But hearing "This Whole World", "A Day In The Life of a Tree", and maybe even something like "Marcella" would have been so very interesting.

[Mike's Beard]

My reasoning on it is you didn't just nail a Beach Boy vocal at this time in a couple of takes. Getting a usable vocal track out of Brian would have required him to stay in the studio for more than an hour or two. It's a shame because as has been stated by the posters above his voice was still in adequate shape around this time. His superb harmonies are all over "Sunflower" so it is abit of a mystery why he didn't take a few more leads.

Also worth mentioning, his backing vocals crop up VERY prominently on the American Spring record which was made in '72, reinforcing the notion that he really just wasn't that interested in the BB's at this time.

If you want to talk about Beach Boy soundalikes look no further than Blondie and Ricky. I can distinguish the two when they sing leads but cannot for the life of me tell them apart in the vocal blend.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Also worth mentioning, his backing vocals crop up VERY prominently on the American Spring record which was made in '72, reinforcing the notion that he really just wasn't that interested in the BB's at this time.

While his interest in the Beach Boys was obviously waning (he was only contributing about 2 songs and 6-7 minutes per BB album), with the Spring album, he only spent a couple of hours on that project, and, it might've been done, not to disassociate himself from the Beach Boys, but to please Marilyn and Diane.

[donald]

Only a couple hours on the American Spring project??

Who did the rest?  Richard Carpenter?

[TdHabib]

A couple of hours?

Let's see, he does all of the instruments and a prominent vocal on "Tennesse Waltz," singing on "Thinkin' bout you Baby," singing on "Forever," singing and playing on "Good Time," the synthesizer work and a prominent vocal on "Sweet Mountain" and he sings on "Everybody."

And that's just what I/we know about...

[Sheriff John Stone]

Only a couple hours on the American Spring project??

Who did the rest?  Richard Carpenter?

David Sandler

[Sheriff John Stone]

A couple of hours?

Let's see, he does all of the instruments and a prominent vocal on "Tennesse Waltz," singing on "Thinkin' bout you Baby," singing on "Forever," singing and playing on "Good Time," the synthesizer work and a prominent vocal on "Sweet Mountain" and he sings on "Everybody."

And that's just what I/we know about...

Right, you got it! A couple of background vocals (a few lines actually) and some keyboard work.

[TdHabib]

Seems to me like quite a bit of work (also he undoubtedly arranged the BVs) and not just something he's slag off in a few hours...

[Sheriff John Stone]

Seems to me like quite a bit of work (also he undoubtedly arranged the BVs) and not just something he's slag off in a few hours...

You think so....That's an interesting thought....I didn't think singing, "I remember...." or "sweet mountain of love...." was that time consuming. How many takes do you think that took? As far as arranging the background vocals, I guess I'll have to defer to you because you posted "undoubtedly". You obviously know more than me. Maybe I'm giving David Sdandler too much credit. All these years I thought Brian Wilson got too much credit for the Spring album....

[Steve Mayo]

not to derail the thread but i asked jack rieley about brian and the spring lp about 14 years ago... here was his reply...

Steve,

I used to have a wonderful dog whose name was Bingo The Magic Dog, and he was well know for being loving, friendly, fun-filled and capable of speaking/howling the word "hello." Incredible but really true. Bingo was almost always in a great mood, unless I left him at home alone, when he would show his distaste for my neglect by finding and chewing on recording tapes. Good friends loved Bingo as I did. Brian Wilson, Dennis Wilson and Carl Wilson adored him, as did Audree and Mar and Annie and others. The dog seemed to be happy, but a couple of times -- when I drove out to the country with Bingo to give him a real run -- I wondered about his self-esteem. He'd run free and run some more and keep on running until he found some cow dung. Inevitably he began rolling in it. Ecchhh.

Somehow that's the metaphor which always comes to mind when I think of Brian's involvement with Spring.

Brian was definitely rolling in the Spring project, but he seemed not to care much about it. They got the "B" and "C" songs, he dutifully did his shtick and on rare occasion we actually had fun with it. Like on Down Home.

Brian's relation to Diane, who he seemed seldom to notice for months at a time, warmed during Spring. And when Murry died, by the way. But he never exuded pride at all about the project. Never in my presence.

Sorry about all the still unanswered posts. I am really busy 16 hours per day these days. Will try to real some and answer them soon.

- Jack

[tpesky]

He tends to write responses like his lyrics: very over the top, much too wordy and long so they take forever to get till the end , and full of metaphors that are hard to understand.

[TdHabib]

I considered starting a thread about this but I'll just slap it on here:

"Good Time," in it's Love You incarnation it's a good song. Nothing more, nothing less.

But I've listened to the American Spring version repeatedly and it's nothing short of a masterpiece. Just brilliant. Granted, some of Brian's child-like lyrics, but IMHO nothin' wrong with that. The thing that knocks me out is the arrangement: so much going on. The clip-clop percussion, interweaving synth lines (most notably around the 2:15 mark on), Marilyn's really spirited vocal and the great BB backing vocals, sung with lots of verve. The mix on Love You is a bit muffled, not bringing out some of the better elements. On Spring, even the given-to-me-by-a-friend version I have, it's dynamic and full. Brilliant.