Mrs. O'Leary's Cow, or Fire?

[Jay]

When it comes to the 1966/67 SMiLE sessions, there seems to be some confusion as to the exact title of the song that was to represent the fire part of the "Elements" suite. I have seen and heard it being refereed to as either Mrs. O'Leary's Cow, or Fire. I have even read somewhere in one of my books(I can't remember which one) that it was called Mrs. O'Leary's Fire. Have we ever figured out the definitive name for the "vintage" SMiLE track? When and where/how did the confusion start?

[TheLazenby]

I know this doesn't prove it definitive, but "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" has always been the bootleg title, AND it was the final title adopted by Brian.

Besides, didn't the Smile booklet have a drawing of a cow kicking over a lantern?

[Jay]

If Mrs. O'Leary's Cow has always been the bootleg title, where did Fire come from?

[the captain]

I've always taken it as shorthand. If there's a "The Elements Suite," it's pretty obvious which part of that "Mrs O Leary's Cow" would be.

[XY]

On the tape box or session sheet the title is
"The Elements, Part One, Fire"

[Beach Head]

In his legendary article, "Goodbye Surfing, Hello God," Jules Siegel quoted Brian as saying, "Yeah, I'm going to call this Mrs. O'Leary's Fire and I think it might just scare a whole lot of people."

[Andrew G. Doe]

I know this doesn't prove it definitive, but "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" has always been the bootleg title, AND it was the final title adopted by Brian.

Besides, didn't the Smile booklet have a drawing of a cow kicking over a lantern?

No - that was a drawing Frank Holmes did much, much later... late 90s/early 2000s, I think.

[buddhahat]

I'm sure there are a few instances where Brian had multiple names for songs. Often listening to the sessions it's surprising the subtle differences in the way he titles the song about to be played - Let Go Of Your Ego being the one that always intrigues me as it totally alters the message in the song, as opposed to Hand On To Your Ego, which presumably was what it would've been entitled had Mike not wanted it changed. Presumably these things only got set in stone once the album was released.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Sometimes he wasn't even sure what the song was called. Before the first take of 'Child Is Father Of The Man' you can hear him talking, and he can't even get it right. Chuck Britz laughs and calls it 'Child, take 1'.

[Roger Ryan]

And very tellingly, Brian tells Sean Lennon in the '98 interview that the track was called "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow". He doesn't even hesitate. Given that this interview took place prior to any attempt to reconstruct SMiLE live for the stage gave the impression that Brian always intended this to be the title.

[Bicyclerider]

From looking at the track list on the cover, the title was "The Elements."  When it was recorded it was The Elements, Part One, Fire.  As part of the suite, it's not clear it would have had it's own title - if the suite was broken down on the record label into parts, then maybe we'd have had Mrs. O'Leary's Cow/I Love to Say Dada/Vegetables/and whatever air was to be - untitled piano instrumental to be named - underneath The Elements title.

[Runaways]

Mrs. O'Leary's Cow is a great title though.  pretty funny actually.

[armona]

From looking at the track list on the cover, the title was "The Elements."  When it was recorded it was The Elements, Part One, Fire.  As part of the suite, it's not clear it would have had it's own title - if the suite was broken down on the record label into parts, then maybe we'd have had Mrs. O'Leary's Cow/I Love to Say Dada/Vegetables/and whatever air was to be - untitled piano instrumental to be named - underneath The Elements title.

Perhaps to be listed on the actual record label as something like the following

The Elements
a. Mrs. O Leary's Cow (Fire)
b.
c.
d.

[TheLazenby]

What's wonderful about the title is, if you don't know what Mrs. O'Leary's cow is, the title seems so silly... you're expecting some happy barnyard tune again.  But then OH MY GOD THIS SONG IS A NIGHTMARE WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH A FRIGGIN' COW?!

[armona]

What's wonderful about the title is, if you don't know what Mrs. O'Leary's cow is, the title seems so silly... you're expecting some happy barnyard tune again.  But then OH MY GOD THIS SONG IS A NIGHTMARE WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH A FRIGGIN' COW?!

"Mrs. O Leary's Cow" refers to the Great Chicago Fire of 1871, and specifically, a story reported at the time about how Catherine O"Leary's Cow started the fire by knocking over a lantern. The reporter who originally reported this later admitted it was untrue.

[runnersdialzero]

What's wonderful about the title is, if you don't know what Mrs. O'Leary's cow is, the title seems so silly... you're expecting some happy barnyard tune again.  But then OH MY GOD THIS SONG IS A NIGHTMARE WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH A FRIGGIN' COW?!

"Mrs. O Leary's Cow" refers to the Great Chicago Fire of 1871, and specifically, a story reported at the time about how Catherine O"Leary's Cow started the fire by knocking over a lantern. The reporter who originally reported this later admitted it was untrue.

He knows that!!!1111

[armona]

What's wonderful about the title is, if you don't know what Mrs. O'Leary's cow is, the title seems so silly... you're expecting some happy barnyard tune again.  But then OH MY GOD THIS SONG IS A NIGHTMARE WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH A FRIGGIN' COW?!

"Mrs. O Leary's Cow" refers to the Great Chicago Fire of 1871, and specifically, a story reported at the time about how Catherine O"Leary's Cow started the fire by knocking over a lantern. The reporter who originally reported this later admitted it was untrue.

He knows that!!!1111

Whoops. Look like I misread his post.   

[Dunderhead]

The elemental section is so mysterious. I've read that the session musicians were told Workshop/I Wanna Be Around would come right after Fire.
I've always questioned the notion that The Elements contained 4 sections, one for each element. The duality between Fire and Water seems to be more important thematically. Think of it Heroes and Villains, Fire and Water, Ying and Yang. Not to mention that as a single song The Elements would have been way too long, Fire alone is a full length track.
This is also based on the fact that nobody knows what Air and Earth are supposed to be. I've always thought that Wind Chimes and Vegetables were separate from the Elements, they're listed separately on the tracklist note, and Brian was considering Vegetables as a single, which makes it an unlikely Earth in my mind.
People often point to the Brian interview, where he says they recorded a piano piece for Air. However nobody has ever  heard of that or confirmed its existence.  I usually don't believe a lot of what Brian says, and this is something that I really take with a grain of salt.

[runnersdialzero]

The elemental section is so mysterious. I've read that the session musicians were told Workshop/I Wanna Be Around would come right after Fire.
I've always questioned the notion that The Elements contained 4 sections, one for each element. The duality between Fire and Water seems to be more important thematically. Think of it Heroes and Villains, Fire and Water, Ying and Yang. Not to mention that as a single song The Elements would have been way too long, Fire alone is a full length track.
This is also based on the fact that nobody knows what Air and Earth are supposed to be. I've always thought that Wind Chimes and Vegetables were separate from the Elements, they're listed separately on the tracklist note, and Brian was considering Vegetables as a single, which makes it an unlikely Earth in my mind.
People often point to the Brian interview, where he says they recorded a piano piece for Air. However nobody has ever  heard of that or confirmed its existence.  I usually don't believe a lot of what Brian says, and this is something that I really take with a grain of salt.

I wouldn't say "Fire" alone is necessarily a full length track. It's only a couple minutes, a full elements sequence likely would have been somewhat longer than just a couple of minutes.

Also, I've heard rumors that the beginning of "Country Air" was originally part of the Air section - just a rumor, any truth to it?

[Dunderhead]

The elemental section is so mysterious. I've read that the session musicians were told Workshop/I Wanna Be Around would come right after Fire.
I've always questioned the notion that The Elements contained 4 sections, one for each element. The duality between Fire and Water seems to be more important thematically. Think of it Heroes and Villains, Fire and Water, Ying and Yang. Not to mention that as a single song The Elements would have been way too long, Fire alone is a full length track.
This is also based on the fact that nobody knows what Air and Earth are supposed to be. I've always thought that Wind Chimes and Vegetables were separate from the Elements, they're listed separately on the tracklist note, and Brian was considering Vegetables as a single, which makes it an unlikely Earth in my mind.
People often point to the Brian interview, where he says they recorded a piano piece for Air. However nobody has ever  heard of that or confirmed its existence.  I usually don't believe a lot of what Brian says, and this is something that I really take with a grain of salt.

I wouldn't say "Fire" alone is necessarily a full length track. It's only a couple minutes, a full elements sequence likely would have been somewhat longer than just a couple of minutes.

Also, I've heard rumors that the beginning of "Country Air" was originally part of the Air section - just a rumor, any truth to it?

A couple of minutes is already as long as Vegetables, Child is the Father of the Man, and Wind Chimes among others. Two and a half minutes is a pretty standard length for a lot of BB songs in those days, and with a Water section, The Elements would have been up there with Surf's Up as one of the album's longer tracks. Including an air and an earth section would have made The Elements the longest most elaborate track on Smile, and it never seemed likely that Brian was planning an 8 minute long mega-suite as a single track.
I've read that about Country Air, but as far as I know that's based on nothing more than speculation. Look and Holidays have also been noted as possible lost elements. I'm inclined to disagree with that though, especially about Look. Look was recorded in August of '66, really early into the Smile sessions. Vocals were recorded (but lost). Look was most likely abandoned early on. Brian also only worked on Holidays once, in September, at the very start of the project. The fact that he never revisited the track in the following year has always led me to believe it was never intended for inclusion.
Something else that I've always noticed, after January '67 Brian didn't work on anything besides Heroes and Vegetables. However the last thing he worked on before Smiley Smile was I Love to Say DaDa. That makes DaDa the last track written during the Smile era, and I've always doubted it as water because of this. It just always seemed weird that as the project was really collapsing Brian went and recorded this for inclusion. Why did he break away from preparing the singles for this?

[Dancing Bear]

The elemental section is so mysterious. I've read that the session musicians were told Workshop/I Wanna Be Around would come right after Fire.
I've always questioned the notion that The Elements contained 4 sections, one for each element. The duality between Fire and Water seems to be more important thematically. Think of it Heroes and Villains, Fire and Water, Ying and Yang. Not to mention that as a single song The Elements would have been way too long, Fire alone is a full length track.
This is also based on the fact that nobody knows what Air and Earth are supposed to be. I've always thought that Wind Chimes and Vegetables were separate from the Elements, they're listed separately on the tracklist note, and Brian was considering Vegetables as a single, which makes it an unlikely Earth in my mind.
People often point to the Brian interview, where he says they recorded a piano piece for Air. However nobody has ever  heard of that or confirmed its existence.  I usually don't believe a lot of what Brian says, and this is something that I really take with a grain of salt.

I wouldn't say "Fire" alone is necessarily a full length track. It's only a couple minutes, a full elements sequence likely would have been somewhat longer than just a couple of minutes.

Also, I've heard rumors that the beginning of "Country Air" was originally part of the Air section - just a rumor, any truth to it?

A couple of minutes is already as long as Vegetables, Child is the Father of the Man, and Wind Chimes among others. Two and a half minutes is a pretty standard length for a lot of BB songs in those days, and with a Water section, The Elements would have been up there with Surf's Up as one of the album's longer tracks. Including an air and an earth section would have made The Elements the longest most elaborate track on Smile, and it never seemed likely that Brian was planning an 8 minute long mega-suite as a single track.
I've read that about Country Air, but as far as I know that's based on nothing more than speculation. Look and Holidays have also been noted as possible lost elements. I'm inclined to disagree with that though, especially about Look. Look was recorded in August of '66, really early into the Smile sessions. Vocals were recorded (but lost). Look was most likely abandoned early on. Brian also only worked on Holidays once, in September, at the very start of the project. The fact that he never revisited the track in the following year has always led me to believe it was never intended for inclusion.
Something else that I've always noticed, after January '67 Brian didn't work on anything besides Heroes and Vegetables. However the last thing he worked on before Smiley Smile was I Love to Say DaDa. That makes DaDa the last track written during the Smile era, and I've always doubted it as water because of this. It just always seemed weird that as the project was really collapsing Brian went and recorded this for inclusion. Why did he break away from preparing the singles for this?

I've heard that Brian's mood while recording LtsD was better than in the previous sessions from '67. Maybe the track was already 'something else', as much as Smiley Smile. Maybe already a break from that project that - for any reason you may believe - had just stagnated and become a burden.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Something else that I've always noticed, after January '67 Brian didn't work on anything besides Heroes and Vegetables. However the last thing he worked on before Smiley Smile was I Love to Say DaDa. That makes DaDa the last track written during the Smile era, and I've always doubted it as water because of this. It just always seemed weird that as the project was really collapsing Brian went and recorded this for inclusion. Why did he break away from preparing the singles for this?

These were worked on because he knew that he HAD to get a single out, and apparently these were the 2 'strongest' songs.  I always understood H&V being the lead single, but Vegetables? I never quite got what was up with that.

[armona]

Not to interrupt the current flow of discussion, but here's what David Anderle said in late '67 about the Elements:

"We were aware, he [Brian] made us aware, of what fire was going to be, and what water was going to be; we had some idea of air. That was where it stopped. None of us had any ideas as to how it was going to tie together, except that it appeared to us to be an opera. And the story of the fire part I guess is pretty well known by now."

[Winston Wrong]

Could "Air" be the final minute of Wind Chimes (as released on the G.V. box set?), it has always seemed to be pasted in at the end to me..

[Bicyclerider]

Something else that I've always noticed, after January '67 Brian didn't work on anything besides Heroes and Vegetables. However the last thing he worked on before Smiley Smile was I Love to Say DaDa. That makes DaDa the last track written during the Smile era, and I've always doubted it as water because of this. It just always seemed weird that as the project was really collapsing Brian went and recorded this for inclusion. Why did he break away from preparing the singles for this?

But in april there was an article (reprinted in LLVS) about Smile and it reported that the album was close to  finished except that brian was having problems with one track, The Elements, a four part suite.

then he records Dada - coincidence, or was he trying to finish this track he said he was having problems with?

And there are several press reports at the time confirming Brian was planning the track as a four part "suite" - much as we'd like to think it was just two, Fire and Water (since we have Smile era tracks to correspond to those two parts).