Spanish Guitar/Secret Smile "Untitled Instrumental"

[The Shift]

Suspect this debate now needs a fresh thread titled "Lithotripsy" as it seems to have veered from "Spanish Guitar/Secret Smile 'Untitled Instrumental' ".

[Andrew G. Doe]

fact is, he told several people (and I believe posted it on an MB) that it was the medication that caused his heart attack - and that's just not possible.

I'm not sure I would be so quick to state that as fact.  

Please re-read what I originally had to say about this... hell, I'm feeling generous, I'll say it one more time: I asked my doctor (who had been treating me for almost identical renal complaints - stones, colic, infection, you name it - since 1975) if there was any medication for my condition that could induce a heart attack, and he said no, none at all. Then added that it wouldn't be much use anyway, 'cause if it did exist, no-one would take it. So, I'm not stating it as fact, my doctor was. Didn't google anything, just asked a man whose profession to was to know these things.

Further to this point, were this true, then Brad would have had a cast-iron case against the hospital, assuming the possible side effects were not outlined to him prior to treatment. But as far as I know,  he didn't sue anyone.

[Andrew G. Doe]

fact is, he told several people (and I believe posted it on an MB) that it was the medication that caused his heart attack - and that's just not possible.

I'm not sure I would be so quick to state that as fact.  I'm certainly not a doctor, but these days anybody with Internet access can be an "armchair physician."

Googling information on kidney problems, especially kidney stones, reveals that one of the most common kinds of meds prescribed in connection with them are NSAIDs (nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) -- for pain.  If the pain is severe enough, prescription-strength NSAIDs are given.  One category of prescription NSAIDs is COX-2 inhibitors.  Back in 2004-2005, a number of such meds were withdrawn from the market, either by the manufacturer or by order of the FDA, because of (quoting from the Wikipedia article on Valdecoxib) "concerns about possible increased risk of heart attack and stroke."  Some of the brand names of NSAIDs removed included Vioxx, Ceoxx and Bextra.

Now I don't know that Brad was prescribed one of these meds, but the time frame seems about right.  As to a possible malpractice claim if he had been and then suffered a heart attack, the Wikipedia article on Rofecoxib (Vioxx) notes that more than 10,000 cases and 190 class actions have been filed against Merck (the manufacturer) "over adverse cardiovascular events associated with Rofecoxib and the adequacy of Merck's warnings." However, the history of litigation that's cited is mixed and not clear-cut.  Of the six cases that are specifically discussed in the article, plaintiffs have won only two, while Merck has successfully defended against four.  So, even when there's a goodly amount of evidence against the drug and its manufacturer, it's no sure thing that a malpractice claim will prevail.  For all we know, Brad's one of the claims and even part of a class action suit, and he may be in limbo, like so many apparently are, waiting to see what comes of it.

Impressive research - I tip my hat.

Problem is, aside from your own admission "I don't know that Brad was prescribed one of these meds", that your research stated that the meds in (possible) question were withdrawn in 2004/2005, which is some two or three years before you "last talked to him (admittedly several years ago), he was dealing with serious kidney problems... My best guess is that it was some time in 2007, but it may have been a year earlier." (Please excuse the conflated quote). So you - and he - are implying that his heart problems were caused by a medication that had, in fact, been withdrawn at least 12 months earlier. The heart attack thing came to light some years before 2007... my recollection isn't exact, but it was definitely pre-BWPS.

[TdHabib]

I'm not trying to start something here, but I'm just curious as to why Beach Head is defending Brad so much? I wouldn't go to these lengths unless the person was a good friend of mine or there was a serious error being made.

[Beach Head]

Problem is, aside from your own admission "I don't know that Brad was prescribed one of these meds", that your research stated that the meds in (possible) question were withdrawn in 2004/2005, which is some two or three years before you "last talked to him (admittedly several years ago), he was dealing with serious kidney problems... My best guess is that it was some time in 2007, but it may have been a year earlier." (Please excuse the conflated quote). So you - and he - are implying that his heart problems were caused by a medication that had, in fact, been withdrawn at least 12 months earlier. The heart attack thing came to light some years before 2007... my recollection isn't exact, but it was definitely pre-BWPS.

Talk about trying to twist what I said!

I never implied that any heart problems were occurring in 2006-2007.  That's simply when I last talked to him.  At that time, he was dealing with chronic kidney stones, but my understanding was that had been going on for some time - my impression was at least several years.

You yourself indicate "the heart attack thing came to light some years before 2007," and I'm saying that fits with the time frame for the large-scale prescribing and subsequent withdrawal from the market of Vioxx.  If he was having kidney problems at that time, is there any reason they couldn't still have been present several years later (when I talked to him)?  Like I've said, I'm no doctor, but my impression is that serious kidney problems often are forever.

[Beach Head]

I'm just curious as to why Beach Head is defending Brad so much? I wouldn't go to these lengths unless the person was a good friend of mine or there was a serious error being made.

I think that's true on both counts.  I do consider Brad a good friend of mine.  I've known him as a fellow collector and fan for more than 30 years.  And I do think there's a serious error being made - in attributing all sorts of bootlegs, especially the first SMILE vinyl, to him.  My personal knowledge of the situation says that's just out-and-out false.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

I'm just curious as to why Beach Head is defending Brad so much? I wouldn't go to these lengths unless the person was a good friend of mine or there was a serious error being made.

I think that's true on both counts.  I do consider Brad a good friend of mine.  I've known him as a fellow collector and fan for more than 30 years.  And I do think there's a serious error being made - in attributing all sorts of bootlegs, especially the first SMILE vinyl, to him.  My personal knowledge of the situation says that's just out-and-out false.

And the bigger issue is not that these boots are attributed to him, but the fact that he took people's money and didn't give it back. Quit harping on the boots subject, because to be honest I don't think people here give a rats ass about who started what boot and why. They care about the fact that their hard earned money will never be seen again because they gave it to a jerk who, if he was an honest businessman, would have returned every last penny to those who gave it to him.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Like I've said, I'm no doctor, but my impression is that serious kidney problems often are forever.

No argument there - mine have been going on since 1975, not as bad as they used to be, but still flare up now & then. Kidney stones are something I'd not wish on my worst enemy - if you've never experienced that degree of pain, you cannot possibly imagine it.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I sadly know exactly what you mean. Been dealing with this since 1998 myself.

And the bigger issue is not that these boots are attributed to him, but the fact that he took people's money and didn't give it back. Quit harping on the boots subject, because to be honest I don't think people here give a rats ass about who started what boot and why. They care about the fact that their hard earned money will never be seen again because they gave it to a jerk who, if he was an honest businessman, would have returned every last penny to those who gave it to him.

Word.

[The Shift]

I do consider Brad a good friend of mine.  I've known him as a fellow collector and fan for more than 30 years... My personal knowledge of the situation says that's just out-and-out false.

I have to suggest that if Brad was such a good friend then I'd hope he'd be contributing to this debate by now to support and defend your own statements.

Your support for Brad in this thread, despite the general feeling against him from virtually everyone else (including myself) has been admirable and Id like to think the least he could do is publically support you and confirm what you have say about him.

I do consider Brad a good friend...

Rather, I'd suggest it is he who should consider you a good friend.

[Beach Head]

[I have to suggest that if Brad was such a good friend then I'd hope he'd be contributing to this debate by now to support and defend your own statements.

You support for Brad in this thread, despite the general feeling against him from virtually everyone else (including myself) has been admirable and Id like to think the least he could do is publically support you and confirm what you have say about him.

I feel certain that if I contacted him, he'd do exactly that.  But my understanding of his situation is that he's the caregiver for a disabled wife, while dealing with his own chronic kidney problems.  I also suspect, based on what he said several years ago, that the continuing legal dispute related to his licensing and attempted release of the Hite Morgan tapes rages on (and incurs ever-greater lawyer bills).  To quote AGD (about another party mentioned in this thread), "he's got a lot on his plate and doesn't need this kind of frippery as well."

[GLarson432]

AGD:  Kidney stones are something I'd not wish on my worst enemy - if you've never experienced that degree of pain, you cannot possibly imagine it.

I can relate.  I've had both pancreatitis and diverticulitis.  Doctors I've talked to during those experiences said the top three most painful 'things' a human can have (I'm excluding chirldirth here) are, in this order, kidney stones, pancreatitis and diverticulitis.

It's especially excruciating when you're sitting in a hospital ER and just MOANING in pain, consistently for 5-6 hours, waiting to be "Next"?