Brian's current thoughts on Landy?

[the captain]

He got "decent results" in the '70s in that Wilson improved and Landy was relieved of duties. If I may speak for the deceased, I'd argue those were not the "decent results" he had in mind, especially when given a second chance. The last thing he wanted to do was get himself fired (or let himself be deemed unnecessary) again; and if he could become a rock star by proxy in the meantime, well, he seemed awfully happy to try that, too.

[TdHabib]

(I have no medical experience)

My impression was that the "powerful drugs" given by Landy were a very sick maneuver by Landy to shut Brian up or pump him up when he wanted to. Remember the story when Brian was agreeing with the Beach Boys in a board meeting and disagreeing with Landy. A break was called and Landy was given drugs which made him shut up and be unable to communicate. I know that Landy gave Brian drugs to be more active in front of interviewers. Plus, he diagnosed him as a schizophrenic and have him medication for that disease---and he didn't have it. Give someone the drugs for a disease they don't have and you get awful results.

In my opinion, it was the worst decision anyone made with Brian Wilson. That someone, ANYONE, didn't cut Landy off in 1985, 86 is a tragic mistake, and sadly understandable in a way. I think if Dennis would've been around and at least half cogent he never would've allowed Landy to stay as long as he did. Remember this is the guy who went up to see Brian every day during his darkest periods and desperately try to help him in any way.

[Sheriff John Stone]

In my opinion, it was the worst decision anyone made with Brian Wilson.

Agree. And don't misunderstand me, I am in no way defending Landy, just raising some questions I had.

[Sheriff John Stone]

He got "decent results" in the '70s in that Wilson improved and Landy was relieved of duties. If I may speak for the deceased, I'd argue those were not the "decent results" he had in mind, especially when given a second chance. The last thing he wanted to do was get himself fired (or let himself be deemed unnecessary) again; and if he could become a rock star by proxy in the meantime, well, he seemed awfully happy to try that, too.

When I wrote "decent results", I was referring to Brian, not Landy himself. Brian did make some major strides in 1976-77, enough to influence the Beach Boys to rehire Landy a second time.

Well, yeah, it didn't end so well for Landy in either stay. I believe though, that Landy was let go the first time, not so much because of the treatment, but because of the fees!

[Jay]

I am thinking of a Dutch interview from long ago, with host Ivo Hiehe. It was sensationalist, surely. But apart from that: Brian responded slowly, from far away it seemed, and he moved to and fro in his chair, clutching a pillow to his belly and chest, like a little child would.

part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN7qj87NCn0
part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ob8AVA3CoU

A very disturbing piece of journalism btw, one of the reasons I don't highly regard mr. Niehe

Could somebody here perhaps translate one or more of the more "sensationalistic" parts of this interview? I have heard and read that this interview is quite "infamous" among dutch Beach Boys/Brian Wilson fans.

Thanks! Yes, Niehe doesn't place morality high on his journalistic agenda...

Could somebody here perhaps translate somf of th

[the captain]

I believe though, that Landy was let go the first time, not so much because of the treatment, but because of the fees!

I think that's pretty certain. That, plus Brian's improvements could have led the others to mistakenly believe he was "better," or at least that they knew what it took to keep him on the right track.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Also, don't forget that Brian was abusing Xanax (by choice!...there's a video on Youtube where brian is asking for a "half, a dime, and some Xanax")) during the second Landy period.  that certainly didn't help matters.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I was never sure why it was necessary for Landy to prescribe those powerful drugs in the first place. I thought the two main objectives were to help Brian with the weight/diet problem and to treat his addiction to illegal substances. Both of those issues could've been largely handled by the bodyguards.

I'm sure Brian had other psychological issues, but couldn't they have been treated with therapy and less brain damaging drugs? As has been pointed out several times, Brian in 1980-81 did not appear to be that "out of it" mentally...

Not only was it not necessary, Landy wasn't qualified to prescribe these drugs.

[smile-holland]

I am thinking of a Dutch interview from long ago, with host Ivo Hiehe. It was sensationalist, surely. But apart from that: Brian responded slowly, from far away it seemed, and he moved to and fro in his chair, clutching a pillow to his belly and chest, like a little child would.

part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN7qj87NCn0
part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ob8AVA3CoU

A very disturbing piece of journalism btw, one of the reasons I don't highly regard mr. Niehe

Thanks! Yes, Niehe doesn't place morality high on his journalistic agenda...

Could somebody here perhaps translate one or more of the more "sensationalistic" parts of this interview? I have heard and read that this interview is quite "infamous" among dutch Beach Boys/Brian Wilson fans.

Will try to do so the next couple of days...

[Loaf]

Sheriff - zombies are easier to control...

On a slightly morbid note, wasn't Landy in Brian's will by this point...?

[runnersdialzero]

Sheriff - zombies are easier to control...

On a slightly morbid note, wasn't Landy in Brian's will by this point...?

I don't see how he couldn't have been.

[Loaf]

Sheriff - zombies are easier to control...

On a slightly morbid note, wasn't Landy in Brian's will by this point...?

I don't see how he couldn't have been.

The overmedicating Landy of the late 80s couldn't have been in Brian's will? In the same way that Landy wouldn't prescribe drugs that he wasn't allowed to?

[The Heartical Don]

1968 ....was ECT outlawed by then? 

It's not outlawed even now. A former roommate of mine underwent it quite voluntarily to help with her depression about 8-9 years ago.

As far as I know, it was never outlawed. It just got very impopular. Urban myth had it that one could become a mindless zombie. But applied with caution, it can improve patients a lot. And IMHO it's far less dangerous than invasive neurosurgery (the cutting of nerve tracts, which is irreversible).

But I don't think that Brain would have qualified for ECT anyway.

[The infamous Baldwin Organ]

1968 ....was ECT outlawed by then? 

It's not outlawed even now. A former roommate of mine underwent it quite voluntarily to help with her depression about 8-9 years ago.

As far as I know, it was never outlawed. It just got very impopular. Urban myth had it that one could become a mindless zombie. But applied with caution, it can improve patients a lot. And IMHO it's far less dangerous than invasive neurosurgery (the cutting of nerve tracts, which is irreversible).

But I don't think that Brain would have qualified for ECT anyway.

You won't become a zombie? Then how else can we explain Lou Reed? 

[The Heartical Don]

1968 ....was ECT outlawed by then? 

It's not outlawed even now. A former roommate of mine underwent it quite voluntarily to help with her depression about 8-9 years ago.

As far as I know, it was never outlawed. It just got very impopular. Urban myth had it that one could become a mindless zombie. But applied with caution, it can improve patients a lot. And IMHO it's far less dangerous than invasive neurosurgery (the cutting of nerve tracts, which is irreversible).

But I don't think that Brain would have qualified for ECT anyway.

You won't become a zombie? Then how else can we explain Lou Reed? 

Haha, I was thinking of him when writing, but did not mention him... good joke!

There was a period, as I said, when CBT had fallen into disrepute. Not least because movies like Cuckoo's Nest fuelled public opinion about the putative bad sides of CBT. I am pretty sure that the first years of the method had their share of victims (faulty voltages/currents). But when applied thoughfully it works. Another thing that frightens people: the exact way it does work is largely unknown; as is the case with rTMS (repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation) in which a strong magnetic field is created around the patient's brain.
Well, come to think of it: the working of antidepressants is also not very clear. Many of these were discovered by serendipity (i.e. originally made for other disorders... but the doctors discovered that they relieved depression). It's only in the past two decades or so that the targeted search for methods to alleviate mood disorders is bearing fruit.
From my POV, Brian could have done well with clomipramine (anafrenil) and a small dose of an antipsychoticum (e.g. risperidone) in the second Landy phase. But that is, of course, an outsider's view from the vantage point of 2010.

[Autotune]

Seeing it from where we are now, I wonder how magnified was Landy's diagnosis back in '82. He said Brian had no liver, was functioning on one lung, and a few other things that indicated his death was near... unless Landy took control. I wonder if Brian's overall physical health was that weak. He's been with us for almost thirty years after that diagnosis and doing pretty well... the main issue being  the effect of Landy-prescribed drugs.

[smile-holland]

I am thinking of a Dutch interview from long ago, with host Ivo Hiehe. It was sensationalist, surely. But apart from that: Brian responded slowly, from far away it seemed, and he moved to and fro in his chair, clutching a pillow to his belly and chest, like a little child would.

part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN7qj87NCn0
part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ob8AVA3CoU

A very disturbing piece of journalism btw, one of the reasons I don't highly regard mr. Niehe

Thanks! Yes, Niehe doesn't place morality high on his journalistic agenda...

Could somebody here perhaps translate one or more of the more "sensationalistic" parts of this interview? I have heard and read that this interview is quite "infamous" among dutch Beach Boys/Brian Wilson fans.

Here's a rough translation of the Dutch parts: This is the result when you use that autobiography as the holy grail of your story (and constantly succeed in switching Carl and Brian when showing pictures...)


Pt 1:       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN7qj87NCn0
0:00 (Ivo Niehe)      This environment inspired BW to write surf music that would made a guitar group (3 brothers, a nephew and a neighbourhood friend) world famous. The music of the BB perfectly matched the desire to the sunny and careless life of the early 60ies.

0:43 (IN)      Now – 30 years later – you’ll find Brian Wilon here, behind these 2 doors. Nr. 2 is the entrance to his studio. Inside a few golden records, a number only the Beatles have probably beaten.
1:01 (IN)      Particularly the work of this little guy (see picture) that was born 51 years ago a middle class household. Who – like his brothers – were having troubles with a too dominant father. And for whom mother Wilson – if it became too much for Brian – as sort of medicine always cooked two boiled eggs.
As a response to all of this Brian tried to outshine by making music. A response mainly on the ‘bad vibrations' of father Murry whose behaviour still influences his son’s lifes. A father with 2 faces.
1:40 (Brian Wilson / IN)      Yeah… he was a pretty nice guy for a while… etc.
2:30 (IN)      Worse than that hit with a lead pipe, that father Wilson at a certain moment decided to sell all copyrights of songs his son composed for little money. BW could have been a multi multi millionaire. Only this year he got part of his copyrights back.
2:45 (IN / BW)      Weren’t you mad at him…
3:43 (IN)      Thanks to the judge he got a few million ($$) for his catalogue. Reason for happiness that characterised the early years of the group, when 3 brothers Wilson, nephew Mike Love and friend Al were always in for a joke.
Who could have imagined then that BW’s life would become a total mess. That he would makes advances at his wife’s sister. That he would be on 24-hour survey for years by a psychiatrist. That he would need day and night help of a devoted nurse, Carolyn. BW himself describes it all in his biography. And it all started so peacefully, a group of neat guys that sang close harmony with Brian as their leader. With – for BW – as an extra motive to show that he really was somebody.
4:44 (BW / IN)      You wanted to prove yourself…
!! 5:55  “the devil started hanging around” quote
!! 6:46 showing picture of Carl…
!! 7:03 showing another picture of Carl…
8:30 (end of pt 1)      
      
Pt 2:       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ob8AVA3CoU
0:00 (IN)      The first signs that hinted towards the fact that the once spirited musician was sliding off, were excessive drinking and smoking on stage (picture 1977!), later followed by unstoppable voracity. And the impressive use of all products that God forbid.
0:24 (IN)      Writing a new sung became a hell (and of all songs they show Surf’s Up !!)
0:46 (IN)      He wasn’t able to remember something (and – again – a picture of Carl is shown!!). And the only place he felt somewhat comfortable was his bed. This piece of historic tape tells in a nutshell the complete Wilson drama (clip BW in bed, It’s OK special).
1:33 (IN / BW)      In the book there’s a unique story that…
1:53 (IN)      Strange thing is though that in his book he describes it differently. In the book he tells “Carolyn, where’s my pants”, while he hadn’t taken of his pants for weeks.
2:05 (IN / BW)      In your book you give one…
3:30 …devil comes in again… and Landy as well…
4:45 (IN)      Wilson has 2 daughters that make international fame as pop stars, but their success wasn’t a result of a loving father. They have – as BW himself says – suffered too much through BS’s experience with his own father.
4:58 (BW / IN)      It made me indifferent…
5:35 (IN)      BW has proven himself by now. Wherever you look, you see the prove for the appreciation for his musical contributions.
6:01 (IN)      Nowadays BW can be found regularly in his studio again. He writes and produces again. For the Beach Boys and for himself. Recently a solo CD was released containing – again – beautiful songs. How is this possible, one wonders, because is THIS the genius from who’s brains and hand the most beautiful music was created? (camera shot on an almost paralysed Brian playing a classic Shortenin’ Bread variation…)
6:31 (IN / BW)      Haven’t you – sometimes – that when you …
      7:08 – BW bouncing up and down on his chair. Around 8:00 some more devil-talk.
8:59 (end of pt 2)      

[The Heartical Don]

Seeing it from where we are now, I wonder how magnified was Landy's diagnosis back in '82. He said Brian had no liver, was functioning on one lung, and a few other things that indicated his death was near... unless Landy took control. I wonder if Brian's overall physical health was that weak. He's been with us for almost thirty years after that diagnosis and doing pretty well... the main issue being  the effect of Landy-prescribed drugs.

Good point. Landy might have wanted to go down in history as the genius doctor who saved Brian's life and re-ignited his career, as well as became Brian's most talented and beloved collaborator. If your guess is right, then Brian still could have had a heart attack in 1982, because of being grossly overweight, bad dietary habits, and lack of exercise. But as for the other issues... yes, it looks like a bit of 'truth-tampering' has been done.

[Mike's Beard]

Seeing it from where we are now, I wonder how magnified was Landy's diagnosis back in '82. He said Brian had no liver, was functioning on one lung, and a few other things that indicated his death was near... unless Landy took control. I wonder if Brian's overall physical health was that weak. He's been with us for almost thirty years after that diagnosis and doing pretty well... the main issue being  the effect of Landy-prescribed drugs.

Good point. Landy might have wanted to go down in history as the genius doctor who saved Brian's life and re-ignited his career, as well as became Brian's most talented and beloved collaborator. If your guess is right, then Brian still could have had a heart attack in 1982, because of being grossly overweight, bad dietary habits, and lack of exercise. But as for the other issues... yes, it looks like a bit of 'truth-tampering' has been done.

Very bad shape? No doubt. However in less than half a year Brian was running six miles a day and pumping iron. Now if he had no liver and no lung capacity he would have dropped dead on the beach trying to do that!!!  It takes more than 6 months for your body to repair itself from that level of damage, so yes Landy was talking out of his backside when he made that diagnosis. But then it wouldn't be the first time nor sadly the last.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Seeing it from where we are now, I wonder how magnified was Landy's diagnosis back in '82. He said Brian had no liver, was functioning on one lung, and a few other things that indicated his death was near... unless Landy took control. I wonder if Brian's overall physical health was that weak. He's been with us for almost thirty years after that diagnosis and doing pretty well... the main issue being  the effect of Landy-prescribed drugs.

Good point. Landy might have wanted to go down in history as the genius doctor who saved Brian's life and re-ignited his career, as well as became Brian's most talented and beloved collaborator. If your guess is right, then Brian still could have had a heart attack in 1982, because of being grossly overweight, bad dietary habits, and lack of exercise. But as for the other issues... yes, it looks like a bit of 'truth-tampering' has been done.

Very bad shape? No doubt. However in less than half a year Brian was running six miles a day and pumping iron. Now if he had no liver and no lung capacity he would have dropped dead on the beach trying to do that!!!  It takes more than 6 months for your body to repair itself from that level of damage, so yes Landy was talikng out of his backside when he made that diagnosis. But then it wouldn't be the first time nor sadly the last.

I believe the actual figure Landy gave was 30% lung capacity (and yes, 'no liver' - which was patently untrue as, aside from any other sign, Brian wasn't bright yellow in 1982): but remember, he was rehired by BRI, specifically Tom Hulett, because they thought Brian would be the next Billboard front page headline.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

In a way he was, just on account of his "Svengali" as opposed to him dying.

Seeing it from where we are now, I wonder how magnified was Landy's diagnosis back in '82. He said Brian had no liver, was functioning on one lung, and a few other things that indicated his death was near... unless Landy took control. I wonder if Brian's overall physical health was that weak. He's been with us for almost thirty years after that diagnosis and doing pretty well... the main issue being  the effect of Landy-prescribed drugs.

Yeah, AND he outlived Landy!

[The Heartical Don]

In a way he was, just on account of his "Svengali" as opposed to him dying.

Seeing it from where we are now, I wonder how magnified was Landy's diagnosis back in '82. He said Brian had no liver, was functioning on one lung, and a few other things that indicated his death was near... unless Landy took control. I wonder if Brian's overall physical health was that weak. He's been with us for almost thirty years after that diagnosis and doing pretty well... the main issue being  the effect of Landy-prescribed drugs.

Yeah, AND he outlived Landy!

...and his two brothers. Not that it's a 'feat' in a sport-type kind of way, but it is pretty amazing.

[runnersdialzero]

Sheriff - zombies are easier to control...

On a slightly morbid note, wasn't Landy in Brian's will by this point...?

I don't see how he couldn't have been.

The overmedicating Landy of the late 80s couldn't have been in Brian's will? In the same way that Landy wouldn't prescribe drugs that he wasn't allowed to?

wat.

I was saying that, at that point, Landy had to have been in Brian's will. I don't see how Landy could not have been in Brian's will by that point in time.

[Fall Breaks]

When Landy died, Brian gave an interview where he said he misses him.

For good and ill, Landy was a big part of Brian's life for many years.

Increasingly for ill as time went by. Just because he saved Brian's life in 1982 didn't confer the right to damn near kill him some nine years later. The BDW we see today is largely the way he is due to Landy's medications 1982-90.

Hi Andrew -

can (do you want to) elaborate a bit on what medications Brian got prescribed during those 9 years? I'm curious as to the bad side effects that legal medicine can have, esp. since Landy was a psychologist, as far as I know, and as such wasn't even allowed to prescribe anything (well, that's the case in Europe anyway - 'psychologist' is not a protected title over here, anyone over 18 can call themselves psychologist).

In Sweden it is, and probably the other Nordic countries as well. Five years of education and then one year of working under supervision or whatever the term is, and then you can call yourself a psychologist.

[The Heartical Don]

When Landy died, Brian gave an interview where he said he misses him.

For good and ill, Landy was a big part of Brian's life for many years.

Increasingly for ill as time went by. Just because he saved Brian's life in 1982 didn't confer the right to damn near kill him some nine years later. The BDW we see today is largely the way he is due to Landy's medications 1982-90.

Hi Andrew -

can (do you want to) elaborate a bit on what medications Brian got prescribed during those 9 years? I'm curious as to the bad side effects that legal medicine can have, esp. since Landy was a psychologist, as far as I know, and as such wasn't even allowed to prescribe anything (well, that's the case in Europe anyway - 'psychologist' is not a protected title over here, anyone over 18 can call themselves psychologist).

In Sweden it is, and probably the other Nordic countries as well. Five years of education and then one year of working under supervision or whatever the term is, and then you can call yourself a psychologist.

Tks for clearing that up. A much better state of thinks 'oop North', then...