Weezers Pinkerton

[andy]

Wasn't he doing that from the beginning?  I think if he has any musical flaw related to his time, it's not exploring his playing ability enough.  We probably have Kurt Cobain to thank for that.

Yep, that's always been his primary goal (with the exception of Pinkerton, which seems to be the only time he switched his perspective, back and forth, during the making.)



I think his biggest problem has been his lack of effort into arranging. Songs that were once intricate have become completely simple. Not that simple is bad, but it's the ethos.

[Boxer Monkey]

Beyond "eccentric nerd-rocker," I don't think Rivers Cuomo really has much of a public persona. Personally, I don't find him to be a very interesting character outside of his songs. I'm sure he manipulates his image to a small degree, but that's pretty much parcel to being in the music business these days. His songs do seem genuine to me, at any rate. I think most of the "fans" who reject more current Weezer music are emotionally retarded in that they demand the band continue to retool the adolescent themes of the early albums rather than allow them to evolve as Weezer has. Weezer still essentially makes "Weezer music," but it's more streamlined in pure feeling, which is just part of getting older. It's hard to stay hardcore. The predominant Weezer demographic of dissatisfied fans would seem to be in their mid-20s or so -- the same age Rivers Cuomo was when he made "Pinkerton." But that guy is in his mid-30s now, and the music he's writing isn't as immediately appealing to them because he's not channeling so much raw angst. He's moved to someplace where his fans have yet to arrive, I think, and when they do I think they'll be more willing to accept an album like "Make Believe," which is every bit as good as "Pinkerton," in its way. I identify more now with the new Weezer stuff than I do "Pinkerton,"  but when I was 22, 23, 24, I really loved "Pinkerton." Now I'm kind of tired of it and the people who continue to praise it as The Only Album Ever. Even among Weezer albums it's overrated.

[Chris D.]

Beyond "eccentric nerd-rocker," I don't think Rivers Cuomo really has much of a public persona. Personally, I don't find him to be a very interesting character outside of his songs. I'm sure he manipulates his image to a small degree, but that's pretty much parcel to being in the music business these days. His songs do seem genuine to me, at any rate. I think most of the "fans" who reject more current Weezer music are emotionally retarded in that they demand the band continue to retool the adolescent themes of the early albums rather than continue to evolve as Weezer has. Weezer still essentially makes "Weezer music," but it's more streamlined in pure feeling, but that's just part of getting older. The predominant Weezer demographic of dissatisfied fans would seem to be in their mid-20s or so -- the same age Rivers Cuomo was when he made "Pinkerton." But that guy is in his mid-30s now, and the music he's writing isn't as immediately appealing to them because he's not channeling so much raw angst. He's moved to someplace where his fans have yet to arrive, I think, and when they do I think they'll be more willing to accept an album like "Make Believe," which is every bit as good as "Pinkerton," in its way. I identify more now with the new Weezer stuff than I do "Pinkerton,"  but when I was 22, 23, 24, I really loved "Pinkerton." Now I'm kind of tired of it and the people who continue to praise it as The Only Album Ever. Even among Weezer albums it's overrated.

That was a really good post.  You're right about the maturity/experience factor -- Pinkerton is a good album, but the less positive sexual experience you have, the more mythic it becomes.

I think Rivers should stop music and start a fund to help his whiney fans make music.  That way they can all shut the f*** up and realize what useless tools most of them are, complaining about his music instead of doing something useful with their own lives.

[andy]

I embrace Make Believe for what it is, listen to it almost every and enjoy it,  but it my embracing it doesn't excuse its choppy melodies, pre-adolescent lyrics, and lazy arrangements. And that it was I reject. Not because I'm emotionally retarded, but because it's dizzying to see potential get wasted.

[Boxer Monkey]

I think Rivers should stop music and start a fund to help his whiney fans make music.  That way they can all shut the foda up and realize what useless tools most of them are, complaining about his music instead of doing something useful with their own lives.

Hey, put me down for $20!

Shut the foda up, you whiny bunch of useless tools! 

[Chris D.]

I embrace Make Believe for what it is, listen to it almost every and enjoy it,  but it my embracing it doesn't excuse its choppy melodies, pre-adolescent lyrics, and lazy arrangements. And that it was I reject. Not because I'm emotionally retarded, but because it's dizzying to see potential get wasted.

I'm with you.

Hey, put me down for $20!

Shut the foda up, you whiny bunch of useless tools

Wow, what an amount -- you get a free lapdance in the alley of your choice.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I think most of the "fans" who reject more current Weezer music are emotionally retarded in that they demand the band continue to retool the adolescent themes of the early albums rather than continue to evolve as Weezer has.

I reject the new music because it hasn't evolved at all.

Weezer still essentially makes "Weezer music," but it's more streamlined in pure feeling, but that's just part of getting older.

It doesn't have to be.

The predominant Weezer demographic of dissatisfied fans would seem to be in their mid-20s or so -- the same age Rivers Cuomo was when he made "Pinkerton."

I was 13 when the Blue album came out, and related to it instantly. 

But that guy is in his mid-30s now, and the music he's writing isn't as immediately appealing to them because he's not channeling so much raw angst. He's moved to someplace where his fans have yet to arrive, I think, and when they do I think they'll be more willing to accept an album like "Make Believe," which is every bit as good as "Pinkerton," in its way.

I still don't understand why I (yes, I know it's not directed exactly at me, but I take it personally for some reason) get the blame, or even insulted for not liking something that is so subjective.  Make Believe isn't some island that you can "arrive at" where Rivers has landed and I'm still out to sea.  I don't give a schidt about raw angst.  Lyrically, I don't even know if I could sing a Pinkerton song all the way through without forgetting large segments of words.  The creation of music needn't have anything to do with age, or being in a certain place in your life.  How does getting older equate to being allowed to put less thought into your music?

When it comes down to it, we all just want to have our emotions manipulated by music.  In that, I have mine manipulated to my liking more by the Blue album, somebody else may have their manipulated more to their liking by Make Believe.  Fine, that's the way it is.

But to those who like Make Believe, I want to hear a strictly musical analysis of the so-called "evolution" of Weezer.  No emotions, no lyrics, just the music.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

You're right about the maturity/experience factor -- Pinkerton is a good album, but the less positive sexual experience you have, the more mythic it becomes.

I expect I'll probably end up celibate and a spinster for life, yet I still connect to Pinkerton. 

[andy]

But to those who like Make Believe, I want to hear a strictly musical analysis of the so-called "evolution" of Weezer.  No emotions, no lyrics, just the music.

Impossible, unless you're looking at a very short history. There has been some evolution in the articulation of the songwriting since Maladroit, and some more intervalic melodies, and more dynamics. But overall there has been no evolution. At least I can't think of anything that has evolved, musically. Maybe Brian's writing better parts now..or just writing parts in general. I'd like to be wrong.

[Chris D.]

You're right about the maturity/experience factor -- Pinkerton is a good album, but the less positive sexual experience you have, the more mythic it becomes.

I expect I'll probably end up celibate and a spinster for life, yet I still connect to Pinkerton. 

Does not having sex make you happy?

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Does not having sex make you happy?

I don't know.

[Chris D.]

Does not having sex make you happy?

I don't know.

That's why you like the album.

[I. Spaceman]

 

[I. Spaceman]

Boxer, that was CLASSIC!
Shouldn't have removed it!

[andy]

How is anyone supposed to understand why you think they've progressed if you WON"T explain it? Please?

[Chris D.]

How is anyone supposed to understand why you think they've progressed if you WON"T explain it? Please?

Didn't he kind of imply that Rivers is focusing on more instrospective themes instead of writing songs about how he can't get laid, then he feels bad for getting laid?

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

That's why you like the album.

No, I like it because of the music, the chords, the arrangements, the production.  It could be instrumental with a sax playing all the vocal melodies and, aside from the pleasing timbre of Rivers' voice, I'd like the album just as much.

[Boxer Monkey]

I think most of the "fans" who reject more current Weezer music are emotionally retarded in that they demand the band continue to retool the adolescent themes of the early albums rather than continue to evolve as Weezer has.

I reject the new music because it hasn't evolved at all.

Weezer still essentially makes "Weezer music," but it's more streamlined in pure feeling, but that's just part of getting older.

It doesn't have to be.

The predominant Weezer demographic of dissatisfied fans would seem to be in their mid-20s or so -- the same age Rivers Cuomo was when he made "Pinkerton."

I was 13 when the Blue album came out, and related to it instantly. 

But that guy is in his mid-30s now, and the music he's writing isn't as immediately appealing to them because he's not channeling so much raw angst. He's moved to someplace where his fans have yet to arrive, I think, and when they do I think they'll be more willing to accept an album like "Make Believe," which is every bit as good as "Pinkerton," in its way.

I still don't understand why I (yes, I know it's not directed exactly at me, but I take it personally for some reason) get the blame, or even insulted for not liking something that is so subjective.  Make Believe isn't some island that you can "arrive at" where Rivers has landed and I'm still out to sea.  I don't give a schidt about raw angst.  Lyrically, I don't even know if I could sing a Pinkerton song all the way through without forgetting large segments of words.  The creation of music needn't have anything to do with age, or being in a certain place in your life.  How does getting older equate to being allowed to put less thought into your music?

When it comes down to it, we all just want to have our emotions manipulated by music.  In that, I have mine manipulated to my liking more by the Blue album, somebody else may have their manipulated more to their liking by Make Believe.  Fine, that's the way it is.

But to those who like Make Believe, I want to hear a strictly musical analysis of the so-called "evolution" of Weezer.  No emotions, no lyrics, just the music.

I retract my earlier, rude post. But for such a seemingly articulate person to espouse the hackneyed party line on Weezer -- or *ANY*thing, for that matter -- is deeply tedious for me. It's like the people who you think would know better but don't are much more frustrating to deal with than the fodaing rubes for whom you have no expectations.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Didn't he kind of imply that Rivers is focusing on more instrospective themes instead of writing songs about how he can't get laid, then he feels bad for getting laid?

That's lyrical.  I'm talking, as is Andy, about musical progression.

[andy]

Even then, intent does not correlate with quality, let alone evolution. Unless you're talking about social evolution I guess, but that's another non musical/lyrical thing.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

to espouse the hackneyed party line on Weezer

What is the party line?

[Chris D.]

Didn't he kind of imply that Rivers is focusing on more instrospective themes instead of writing songs about how he can't get laid, then he feels bad for getting laid?

That's lyrical.  I'm talking, as is Andy, about musical progression.

I know what you're talking about.  I'm talking about what you're both responding too.

[I. Spaceman]

Musical progression is simply NOT MAKING THE SAME MUSIC!

[andy]

I retract my earlier, rude post. But for such a seemingly articulate person to espouse the hackneyed party line on Weezer -- or *ANY*thing, for that matter -- is deeply tedious for me. It's like the people who you think would know better but don't are much more frustrating to deal with than the fodaing rubes for whom you have no expectations.

So tedious, huh? Dude, you're on a musical discussion forum...discuss!

[Boxer Monkey]

Didn't he kind of imply that Rivers is focusing on more instrospective themes instead of writing songs about how he can't get laid, then he feels bad for getting laid?

That's lyrical.  I'm talking, as is Andy, about musical progression.

What the f***? How can you even qualify something like that? Like, every band should be the Beatles or the Beach Boys instead of the Ramones, who tinkered nary at all with what made them great and accordingly remained so? (Gawd, I *CANNOT TAKE* such narrow-minded, "canonical" horseshit!)