BWPS - The Final Verdict

[Andrew G. Doe]

Vosse article?

This I have not read...

try this   http://beachboys.freecp.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=587

Brian had surgery to get hearing back in his deaf ear?

Yup. Didn't work.

[The Heartical Don]

Vosse article?

This I have not read...

try this   http://beachboys.freecp.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=587

Brian had surgery to get hearing back in his deaf ear?

Yup. Didn't work.

Blimey! One always learns... I never knew that. When exactly did he undergo surgery? And are any specifics known (I mean: what type of damage he has in that ear)?

[Jason]

Well said that man. It's a general problem in writing history: it's always sort of a simplification of reality. Reality is so complex that it can never be grasped in full, let alone that there can be found a person who, from a 100% objective perspective, was witness to everything that happened. Presumably the real SMiLE story contains just as many, many boring, mundane, accidental, inconsistent, unexpected, long-winded, and plain silly events and non-events as every other real story does. Some say the fall of the Berlin wall was a merit of Ronald Reagan, and built the whole a posteriori reconstruction around that particular conviction; whilst others will tell you that Michael Gorbachev was the most insightful and peaceful politician that ever graced the USSR, and he is the real man behind what happened in 1989. Yet, a third party makes a great case for Guenther Schabowski, that man from the Eastern-Germany Party SED, who mistakenly interpreted a tiny note from the Party as stating that every DDR citizen was now (Nov 9, 1989, around 7 PM) free to cross the border and drive or walk into West-Germany - which meant: history was being made by him, by accident. Prosaic, but perhaps very true.

I know this is off-topic, but I'd love to have a pint and talk European history with you.

[The Heartical Don]

Well said that man. It's a general problem in writing history: it's always sort of a simplification of reality. Reality is so complex that it can never be grasped in full, let alone that there can be found a person who, from a 100% objective perspective, was witness to everything that happened. Presumably the real SMiLE story contains just as many, many boring, mundane, accidental, inconsistent, unexpected, long-winded, and plain silly events and non-events as every other real story does. Some say the fall of the Berlin wall was a merit of Ronald Reagan, and built the whole a posteriori reconstruction around that particular conviction; whilst others will tell you that Michael Gorbachev was the most insightful and peaceful politician that ever graced the USSR, and he is the real man behind what happened in 1989. Yet, a third party makes a great case for Guenther Schabowski, that man from the Eastern-Germany Party SED, who mistakenly interpreted a tiny note from the Party as stating that every DDR citizen was now (Nov 9, 1989, around 7 PM) free to cross the border and drive or walk into West-Germany - which meant: history was being made by him, by accident. Prosaic, but perhaps very true.

I know this is off-topic, but I'd love to have a pint and talk European history with you.

Same here. Where are you located? PM if the urge is killing you 

[Jason]

The urge isn't specifically killing me per se...I just love a good Eastern Bloc/Soviet Union discussion.

Besides, we're an ocean apart, my friend. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Vosse article?

This I have not read...

try this   http://beachboys.freecp.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=587

Brian had surgery to get hearing back in his deaf ear?

Yup. Didn't work.

Blimey! One always learns... I never knew that. When exactly did he undergo surgery? And are any specifics known (I mean: what type of damage he has in that ear)?

According to Audree, he has a damaged 9th nerve and was born that way (wasn't Murry with a 2x4 or a kid with a baseball bat...)... and as best I can pin it down, the operation was late 60/early 70s, certainly before summer 1971.

[The Heartical Don]

The urge isn't specifically killing me per se...I just love a good Eastern Bloc/Soviet Union discussion.

Besides, we're an ocean apart, my friend. 

What's a mere ocean between BBs freaks?

...but thank you for the nice words anyway!

[The Heartical Don]

Vosse article?

This I have not read...

try this   http://beachboys.freecp.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=587

Brian had surgery to get hearing back in his deaf ear?

Yup. Didn't work.

Blimey! One always learns... I never knew that. When exactly did he undergo surgery? And are any specifics known (I mean: what type of damage he has in that ear)?

According to Audree, he has a damaged 9th nerve and was born that way (wasn't Murry with a 2x4 or a kid with a baseball bat...)... and as best I can pin it down, the operation was late 60/early 70s, certainly before summer 1971.

thanks AGD, another piece of the puzzle put in the right place...

[Synth Wash]

According to Audree, he has a damaged 9th nerve and was born that way (wasn't Murry with a 2x4 or a kid with a baseball bat...)... and as best I can pin it down, the operation was late 60/early 70s, certainly before summer 1971.

Vosse implies in the 1969 article that the surgery already happened and that's why Cabinessence on 20/20 is in stereo, so that would mean it would have taken place sometime between '67 and '69 then right? He also implies that the surgery was successful, but apparently he was mistaken.

[The Heartical Don]

To return to BWPS:

are there people here who own both the CD and the double LP of it? If so, did anyone make a close comparison as to the sound quality?

I happen to have the CD (3 of them, in fact, just in case a copy gets faulty for no apparent reason - it's a bit of a fan's madness, isn't it?) and the LP set. But the LP set is still unopened and unplayed; I waited until I could lay hands on a really good 2nd hand turntable, which I did.

Make my day, promise me a transcendent experience, brighten up my future, whatever...

[Andrew G. Doe]

According to Audree, he has a damaged 9th nerve and was born that way (wasn't Murry with a 2x4 or a kid with a baseball bat...)... and as best I can pin it down, the operation was late 60/early 70s, certainly before summer 1971.

Vosse implies in the 1969 article that the surgery already happened and that's why Cabinessence on 20/20 is in stereo, so that would mean it would have taken place sometime between '67 and '69 then right? He also implies that the surgery was successful, but apparently he was mistaken.

Have to say that, as Vosse was out of the loop by then, he evidently didn't know that:

1 - 20/20 was largely Carl's baby (in terms of production)...

2 - Friends came out in stereo eight months earlier.

3 - the recording of "Cabin Essence" on 20/20 is only new as regards the lead vocal and (maybe) the 'banjo' vocal. The rest is not only a Smile recording, but also Brian's edit.

In this instance, Viosse isn't a credible source.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

3 - the recording of "Cabin Essence" on 20/20 is only new as regards the lead vocal and (maybe) the 'banjo' vocal. The rest is not only a Smile recording, but also Brian's edit.

In this instance, Viosse isn't a credible source.

By 'banjo' do you mean the 'doing doing' part? You really think that there's a chance that Brian redid it for '20/20'? I thought that he pretty much stayed away from the SMiLE material in the later years.

[grillo]

3 - the recording of "Cabin Essence" on 20/20 is only new as regards the lead vocal and (maybe) the 'banjo' vocal. The rest is not only a Smile recording, but also Brian's edit.

In this instance, Viosse isn't a credible source.

By 'banjo' do you mean the 'doing doing' part? You really think that there's a chance that Brian redid it for '20/20'? I thought that he pretty much stayed away from the SMiLE material in the later years.

I think he means the BANJO that is played by Carol Kaye (right?) during the verses and ,No, there is no chance Brian re-did it, as per his post. Sheesh.

[Dr. Tim]

To return to BWPS:

are there people here who own both the CD and the double LP of it? If so, did anyone make a close comparison as to the sound quality?

I happen to have the CD (3 of them, in fact, just in case a copy gets faulty for no apparent reason - it's a bit of a fan's madness, isn't it?) and the LP set. But the LP set is still unopened and unplayed; I waited until I could lay hands on a really good 2nd hand turntable, which I did.

Make my day, promise me a transcendent experience, brighten up my future, whatever...

With the LP the fourth side is a set of stack-o-tracks mixes available nowhere else, of H&V, Cabinessence, Holiday and Wind Chimes. Mark Linett says they made a special analog master for the LP from the high-rez digital original, to give the vinyl a bit warmer sound and keep the dynamics.   This is NOT one of those brickwall compression masterings.

Which sounds better?  Tough call, very comparable, especially if you play the CD through an HDCD decoder.  LP will most likely sound slightly warmer, as it's ever so slightly rolled off on top and has a little more oomph below.  But it's not a night-and-day kind of thing.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

3 - the recording of "Cabin Essence" on 20/20 is only new as regards the lead vocal and (maybe) the 'banjo' vocal. The rest is not only a Smile recording, but also Brian's edit.

In this instance, Viosse isn't a credible source.

By 'banjo' do you mean the 'doing doing' part? You really think that there's a chance that Brian redid it for '20/20'? I thought that he pretty much stayed away from the SMiLE material in the later years.

I think he means the BANJO that is played by Carol Kaye (right?) during the verses and ,No, there is no chance Brian re-did it, as per his post. Sheesh.

What do you mean, 'Sheesh'? If he was talking about the 'banjo' part being the 'doing doing' (which is why I asked him)and it, along with the lead vocal, were redone for 20/20 then that means Brian redid it for the album. That's why I asked what it was.  Sorry, next time I'll run my question by you first.

[The Shift]

3 - the recording of "Cabin Essence" on 20/20 is only new as regards the lead vocal and (maybe) the 'banjo' vocal. The rest is not only a Smile recording, but also Brian's edit.

In this instance, Viosse isn't a credible source.

By 'banjo' do you mean the 'doing doing' part? You really think that there's a chance that Brian redid it for '20/20'? I thought that he pretty much stayed away from the SMiLE material in the later years.

I think he means the BANJO that is played by Carol Kaye (right?) during the verses and ,No, there is no chance Brian re-did it, as per his post. Sheesh.

What do you mean, 'Sheesh'? If he was talking about the 'banjo' part being the 'doing doing' (which is why I asked him)and it, along with the lead vocal, were redone for 20/20 then that means Brian redid it for the album. That's why I asked what it was.  Sorry, next time I'll run my question by you first.

I took Andrew's phrase "'banjo' vocal" to mean the vocal "doings" too, not Carol Kaye's played banjo part (didn't know she'd played that though... learn summat new every day round here!). I've always assumed the "doings" were an original SMiLE session vocal, not a 20/20 addition. Can't remember which version of the early SMiLE boots they first appeared on but they've circulated for quite a long time if memory serves me right. I think I first heard them bundled together on a tape with instrumental Iron Horse sections and other scraps and such. If only I could access my full collection right now ... if only I'd indexed it...

[grillo]

3 - the recording of "Cabin Essence" on 20/20 is only new as regards the lead vocal and (maybe) the 'banjo' vocal. The rest is not only a Smile recording, but also Brian's edit.

In this instance, Viosse isn't a credible source.

By 'banjo' do you mean the 'doing doing' part? You really think that there's a chance that Brian redid it for '20/20'? I thought that he pretty much stayed away from the SMiLE material in the later years.

I think he means the BANJO that is played by Carol Kaye (right?) during the verses and ,No, there is no chance Brian re-did it, as per his post. Sheesh.

What do you mean, 'Sheesh'? If he was talking about the 'banjo' part being the 'doing doing' (which is why I asked him)and it, along with the lead vocal, were redone for 20/20 then that means Brian redid it for the album. That's why I asked what it was.  Sorry, next time I'll run my question by you first.

Whoops, My bad. Seems I forgot to read Andrews post correctly and now (as is often the case) it turns out I'm a jerk. I guess I was feeling edgy.

[OneEar/OneEye]

I've always been under the impression that the only thing added to Cabin Essence by Carl was the lead vocal, and that the rest of the track - instrumentation and backing vocals ("doing-doing's" and all) had been there all along (i.e. or since Brian had first recorded them).  

[MBE]

Perhaps Steve Desper can back me up here but when we talked he said Brian didn't have a problem with the 20/20 inclusions.

[The Heartical Don]

To return to BWPS:

are there people here who own both the CD and the double LP of it? If so, did anyone make a close comparison as to the sound quality?

I happen to have the CD (3 of them, in fact, just in case a copy gets faulty for no apparent reason - it's a bit of a fan's madness, isn't it?) and the LP set. But the LP set is still unopened and unplayed; I waited until I could lay hands on a really good 2nd hand turntable, which I did.

Make my day, promise me a transcendent experience, brighten up my future, whatever...

With the LP the fourth side is a set of stack-o-tracks mixes available nowhere else, of H&V, Cabinessence, Holiday and Wind Chimes. Mark Linett says they made a special analog master for the LP from the high-rez digital original, to give the vinyl a bit warmer sound and keep the dynamics.   This is NOT one of those brickwall compression masterings.

Which sounds better?  Tough call, very comparable, especially if you play the CD through an HDCD decoder.  LP will most likely sound slightly warmer, as it's ever so slightly rolled off on top and has a little more oomph below.  But it's not a night-and-day kind of thing.

Thanks, dr. Tim. Can't wait, and will duly post my impression. I still have to re-mount the cartridge (a great Ortofon one, by the way) and to properly connect the phono-preamp (from Pro-ject). It'll be a wonderful experience, no doubt.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

3 - the recording of "Cabin Essence" on 20/20 is only new as regards the lead vocal and (maybe) the 'banjo' vocal. The rest is not only a Smile recording, but also Brian's edit.

In this instance, Viosse isn't a credible source.

By 'banjo' do you mean the 'doing doing' part? You really think that there's a chance that Brian redid it for '20/20'? I thought that he pretty much stayed away from the SMiLE material in the later years.

I think he means the BANJO that is played by Carol Kaye (right?) during the verses and ,No, there is no chance Brian re-did it, as per his post. Sheesh.

What do you mean, 'Sheesh'? If he was talking about the 'banjo' part being the 'doing doing' (which is why I asked him)and it, along with the lead vocal, were redone for 20/20 then that means Brian redid it for the album. That's why I asked what it was.  Sorry, next time I'll run my question by you first.

Whoops, My bad. Seems I forgot to read Andrews post correctly and now (as is often the case) it turns out I'm a jerk. I guess I was feeling edgy.

Happens to the best of us. Jerk 

[The Heartical Don]

How did Van Dyke Parks characterize Smile in 2004 again? I recall something along the lines of: 'a fine collection of small postcard stamps'. I loved that one... because it is so modest; it does away with the inflated descriptions that often were so exaggerated that they took away from the work itself. When one keeps on repeating superlatives, they become irksome in the end.

[BJL]

How did Van Dyke Parks characterize Smile in 2004 again? I recall something along the lines of: 'a fine collection of small postcard stamps'. I loved that one... because it is so modest; it does away with the inflated descriptions that often were so exaggerated that they took away from the work itself. When one keeps on repeating superlatives, they become irksome in the end.

""Smile" struck me as much smaller than I'd remembered (I hadn't listened to it in 37 years really). Yet, it appeals to me, like a small collection of finely engraved postage stamps, for intimate viewing. "

[The Heartical Don]

How did Van Dyke Parks characterize Smile in 2004 again? I recall something along the lines of: 'a fine collection of small postcard stamps'. I loved that one... because it is so modest; it does away with the inflated descriptions that often were so exaggerated that they took away from the work itself. When one keeps on repeating superlatives, they become irksome in the end.

""Smile" struck me as much smaller than I'd remembered (I hadn't listened to it in 37 years really). Yet, it appeals to me, like a small collection of finely engraved postage stamps, for intimate viewing. "

Thank you sir. I like that comment, it's very appealing. Perhaps Parks is one of the few in the position to compare the sessions in 1967 (studio-wise, with all the work, the thunderous music he no doubt heard there time and again, the rows, the drugs, the general hubbub surrounding the whole enterprise) with the peaceful proceedings in 2004, and the end product as we know it. Add the 37 years in between... and it seems only natural that he experienced it the way he described it.

[absinthe_boy]

Remember that Van Dyke was out of the project before Brian started recording 'Fire' and some other mateiral. But he would have heard what went before it. Given all the fragments and sequences he might have heard, its credible that his recollection might have been of a longer album. He was also aware that there was music recorded after he left the process.