BWPS - The Final Verdict

[The Heartical Don]

So, time to 'fess up:

what do you, as an intelligent, thinking and feeling, and sometimes drunk person, really think of the BWPS record album???

For me it's rather simple: A+. I love it to death. My line of thinking about BWPS mainly reflects the words of Bob Christgau, who loves the record. Yes, it's not young Brian, you can hear that. Yes, the older Brian adds another dimension vocally, with his worn voice. Yes, it's not the Beach Boys nor the Wrecking Crew backing him. Yes, it's a totally brilliant thing on its own merits and in its own right.

No reservations. Tops.

And you?

[The Shift]

Love it. To me, it's the natural musical conclusion of the 60s.

But the real question should be : IS IT THE SMILE ALBUM OR IS IT BRIAN WILSON PRESENTS A VERSION OF SMILE

[buddhahat]

But the real question should be : IS IT THE SMILE ALBUM OR IS IT BRIAN WILSON PRESENTS A VERSION OF SMILE

Gah! - no don't ask that question, this thread will roll for days!!

I adored BWPS when it came out, as I was at the 2nd RFH concert which was my introduction to Smile. It blew my mind then, and a 3 or 4 year intense smile obsession ensued. As the live show was my introduction to Smile, I had no problem accepting BWPS as Smile. Songs such as Song For Children feel complete in their BWPS form.

However, 6 years down the line, I do find that some of the backing vocals grate a bit, and I don't find the 3rd section as believable as the others. It doesn't have the magic and the madness of the original sessions but if I want to listen to Smile without all the nagging queries and 'what ifs', I will dig out BWPS. I think they did a terrific job, especially on the cycle of life bit - that sequence is incredible. I also love Brian's old voice with the Smile material. It lends the whole thing an extra poignancy and for these reasons I'd still give it an A+

[The Heartical Don]

Love it. To me, it's the natural musical conclusion of the 60s.

But the real question should be : IS IT THE SMILE ALBUM OR IS IT BRIAN WILSON PRESENTS A VERSION OF SMILE

It is the second. The first never came to fruition; and given Brian's endless experimentation, there's good reason to say that there existed many, many versions of it in his mind. So there is only one Smile, and that is your second option. 'The Smile Album' did and does not exist and never will, due to merciless Time itself.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I am glad it came out. I enjoyed the concert a lot more than the cd. But it is unfair to compare them to the BBs in 66-67. The current group is very tallented and spot on. But its been on the shelf for awhile. But I have done this before. I got really into Friends, stuck in on a shelf for awhile, then listened again and I loved even more than the first time. Haven't gotten that 2nd love for BWPS yet. Time will tell.

[buddhahat]

It's the authors' last word on the subject, and so for my money I think they finished Smile, and that BWPS can be called Smile. That takes nothing away from the parallel-universe completed 67 Smile that plays in my mind every time I reshuffle the original fragments in Itunes! I think the these two versions can co-exist quite happily, but I don't believe there is no finished Smile.

[The infamous Baldwin Organ]

I think BWPS is a great album, and I enjoy the new parts they added too.

For me, I don't think of it like they've gone back in time to 'finish' Smile; it's the guy in charge of the project playing the album that never was. It's Brian Wilson, not an album by the Beach Boys. It's fun though, and gives a nice idea of what could have been.

[Roger Ryan]

BWPS forced me to hear the music anew in a different context than what I was used to. The fact that the new context improved on things I had only imagined makes the project a success. When I first heard the "Cantina" mix of "Heroes & Villains" on the SMILEY two-fer back in '90, I felt like a small window opened into the world that SMiLE was meant to occupy. I didn't get that feeling again until hearing BWPS, but now it was a doorway opening to that world.

We may quibble about whether it is an accurate enough interpretation of the '66/'67 SMiLE, but for most of the world there wasn't any such thing as SMiLE until BWPS was released. It is important for that alone.

[Rocker]

I loved it when it came out, but if I listen to it now, I think some of the production could be better lead vocal-wise. Some parts sound quite dry to me like on H&V (if you know what I mean). I dig the sound of TLOS more to tell you the truth. Not to say that Smile isn't a great album of course

[Mike's Beard]

When I bought the CD back in '04 my only contact so far with the BB's world was a bare bones "Greatest Hits", "Pet Sounds" and "Imagination" and so I came to the album with a quite a different perspective from possably the vast majority of people on this board in that I'd never heard the Smile bootlegs and so had no reference to the original source material to compare it to.  It was a hard album to love at times and took awhile to really "sink in".  I'm talking two - three years.  I'd dust it off once in awhile  and eventually I started to dig it more and more. Once I started getting all the BB's stuff I could lay my hands on I couldn't help but think that the originals are way better.  The title track on "Surf's Up" is superior to the BWPS version.  The last two songs on 20/20 are better than their BWPS remakes.  I also appear to be the only person on the planet who thinks the "Smiley Smile" "Heroes and Villians" is the best  one....  I could go on.  Good album yes but let's face it; no one on the planet can compete with Brian when he was at the peak of his abilities not even the great man himself.

[BillA]

I love it - it is my favorite piece of Brian Wilson.  I would love to hear a symphony with afirst rate chorus perform it.

[Amy B.]

I still think that in 50 or 100 years, orchestras and choirs will be performing it. It's a good piece of music on its own, and Brian and his band did an excellent job interpreting it.

[B-Rex]

It brought the SMiLE legend to fruition.  It certainly isn't all it could have been but a fine effort nonetheless.  It's a bit cheesy in spots (esp. On a Holiday) but even the cheesy parts are endearing.  I was disappointed that Brian didn't put in the effort for a true elements suite but what he and Darian and the gang gaves us was a very reasonable facsimile.  A-

[CeylonSailor]

I remember when I got BWPS, I was in college.  I skipped class to go to Best Buy to get the CD.  I came right home and sat on my bed with headphone and listened.  I was big into the SMiLE sessions and knew what I wanted to hear.  But when I heard all of the created "links" that I assume Brian and Darian and maybe VDP put together....some of the magic went out.  Those little snippets just seemed to far fetched to me to see part of what I wanted Smile to be. 

When Brian said he created a whole "new third movement" I knew there had to be some creating....but like the start of the 3rd movement seems so out of place with the feeling of the songs.  Now I doubt anybody who listened to it without hearing the original sessions could tell what music is newly created.  But as a die hard fan, it seemed odd to me. 

But to me it's Smile in the best form we can get it.  We probably are never going to get a box set or anything close.  So BWPS works for me.

[Roger Ryan]

I remember when I got BWPS, I was in college.  I skipped class to go to Best Buy to get the CD.  I came right home and sat on my bed with headphone and listened.  I was big into the SMiLE sessions and knew what I wanted to hear.  But when I heard all of the created "links" that I assume Brian and Darian and maybe VDP put together....some of the magic went out.  Those little snippets just seemed to far fetched to me to see part of what I wanted Smile to be. 

When Brian said he created a whole "new third movement" I knew there had to be some creating....but like the start of the 3rd movement seems so out of place with the feeling of the songs.  Now I doubt anybody who listened to it without hearing the original sessions could tell what music is newly created.  But as a die hard fan, it seemed odd to me. 

But to me it's Smile in the best form we can get it.  We probably are never going to get a box set or anything close.  So BWPS works for me.

You may dislike how some of the music was arranged, but virtually all of it has its roots in the '66/'67 sessions. The opening to the third segment is, in fact, the "Cantina" bridge from H & V rearranged. Certain musical links come almost straight out of the original sessions, arrangement and all. Darian was obviously being slavishly loyal to the material; the parts that deviated the most from the original sessions were that way because Brian and/or Van Dyke wanted it that way...and that's fine with me.

[absinthe_boy]

Prior to BWPS I had heard a tape of SMiLE fragments. I knew about the legend, I'd heard a fair amount of the material...it was swapped in the school playground in the late 80's (I attended a weird school...walkmen might play AC/DC or Mozart).

When I got hold of an 'unofficial DVD' of one of the early SMiLE gigs I was totally blown away. I ripped the audio and listened to it for weeks on my daily commute to work - it just about lasted the same time as my train and bus ride. Sometimes I had tears in my eyes at the beauty of SMiLE - especially the 2nd movement. I attended a SMiLE concert about a month before the album was released....the nearest thing to a spiritual experience I have ever had.

The album itself....I make no apology for being a vinyl freak and although I own the CD I almost never play it. The US pressing of the LP is a masterpiece of vinyl mastering and manufacture. Trust me, you can hear things that just are NOT there on the CD - good though the CD is. Sonically it is a thing of majesty.

Musically? OK its Not The Beach Boys SMiLE...its already been stated, that record does not exist and never will. BWPS shows that Brian and co were agonisingly close to completing SMiLE back in 1967 though...and I'd wager 70% of BWPS is what might have been.

Listening to it, recalling the tapes swapped in the playground of my youth....is like putting some huge, impossible jigsaw together. "Oh, so *that* bit goes with *this* melody"....Little instrumental breaks here and there put into context. And you know what? It works so well I don't much care if they are as Brian intended in the 60's or not....they work beautifully.

The Beach Boys SMiLE never happened....Brian, Van Dyke and Darian finished SMiLE in late 2003. BWPS is SMiLE in its completed form. That doesn't stop me enjoying the earlier recordings...but I love the finished article.

BWPS stands up. It is part majestic, part wacky, part serious, part funny...in turns poignant and amusing...musically it is interesting and there are very few modern records I'd say that about.

Final verdict? Brian hit it out of the ballpark. As someone who lived through the time when we wondered if Brian would ever produce valuable music again....I hereby state that BWPS is far better than we had any right to expect. It confirms Brian Wilson as one of the finest American composers of all time.

And of course, Brian's new project involves one of the other great American composers. Maybe he'll take on Duke Ellington next...

[grillo]

Can't stand listening to it. Not in any way revelatory or even well done. I remember feeling nearly crushing disappointment when it came out and I've never learned to like it since. The live shows were way better as an experience, but, for Brian or the BB, re-recording old songs always, ALWAYS sounds way inferior and loses the magic of the original. SMiLE is a haunting, ghostly aural experience, whereas BWPS is a workmanlike sterile blah. It's like a turd falling into my drink. It doesn't even really feel like anyone playing on it cared about anything but playing the same notes we've all come to know and love from '66-'67. No soul. Anyway, you get my drift.

[hypehat]

I love it. It personally confirmed the genius of Brian to me. Pet Sounds was good, but this was something else for my 15 year old self.

And the links are perfect, btw.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

I was happy he finished it, and I was really pumped to see what exactly was going to be on it-'Look', maybe? Or 'Holidays'? 'Tones', maybe? Once it came out and I heard it, I couldn't believe it because of the way Brian had talked about it over the years. I really liked it, but even from the very first listen, I always thought it sounded too 'clean'. Or maybe it was just the fact that it sounded....new? I don't know, there's a certain something that the original music  had that I can't put my finger on. A certain sound. Maybe it's a sub-conscious thing on my part. It's still really good, and when I saw Brian do it in concert, at one point I had tears in my eyes because it moved me so much. Still, nothing-and I mean, NOTHING-can stand up to the originals, IMHO.

[Foster's Freeze]

Can't stand it.

Maybe had I never heard the Beach Boys versions of most of the work I would have a different perspective but to me, it seems like a cover band ruining a song that you really like.

For all the people that dump on how untalented and directionless the Beach Boys are (were) without Brian, I wholeheartedly argue that accusation the other way:  I've have never been impressed with anything Brian has done outside of the Beach Boys.

As an artist, Brian needed the Beach Boys just as much as they needed him.  Brian solo in anyway is hardly impressive.  Never has been, never will be.

Paging Dr. Landy!

[Synth Wash]

I think as time and generations go by, BWPS will become the definitive version of Brian Wilson's greatest work and the 1967 recordings will be more of a curiosity. The 37 years between the two right now seems like a much longer time than it will in a few decades. That and BWPS is too new to feel like it's been around long enough to compete with the fragments.

This isn't a perfect analogy for obvious reasons, but let's pretend Beethoven completed half of his greatest symphony in 1790, but then finished it in 1820. I doubt we would be having an argument now about whether or not the completed version from 1820 was better than fragments that were preserved from 1790.

[the captain]

what do you, as an intelligent, thinking and feeling, and sometimes drunk person, really think of the BWPS record album???

Since you're asking me quite directly here, I ought to answer: it's as good an album as anyone could have reasonably expected in that it was a project intended to re-record the Smile material in a cohesive way. I think the musical complaints are pretty ticky-tack, and the big-picture complaints (it's not the "real" Smile, not what 1967-Brian intended, etc.) are irrelevant. Great album.

[buddhahat]

what do you, as an intelligent, thinking and feeling, and sometimes drunk person, really think of the BWPS record album???

Since you're asking me quite directly here, I ought to answer: it's as good an album as anyone could have reasonably expected in that it was a project intended to re-record the Smile material in a cohesive way. I think the musical complaints are pretty ticky-tack, and the big-picture complaints (it's not the "real" Smile, not what 1967-Brian intended, etc.) are irrelevant. Great album.

I think you pretty much nail it there Luther, for me anyway!

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

This isn't a perfect analogy for obvious reasons, but let's pretend Beethoven completed half of his greatest symphony in 1790, but then finished it in 1820. I doubt we would be having an argument now about whether or not the completed version from 1820 was better than fragments that were preserved from 1790.

Actually, I think that *is*  a perfect analogy.

[Dancing Bear]

Forgetting about all the context debates etc.

Most (?) of BWPS had already been released: Heroes and Villains, Surf's Up, Prayer, Cabinessence, Wonderful, Vegetables, Good Vibrations, Wind Chimes, ranging from a 90% to 100% similarity. I just can't get past the feeling that IMO what's rerecorded in 2004 pales in every way compared to the recordings I knew. I just can't. But kudos for those who dig BWPS and we'll all have world peace.